We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - How G’s Surviving Her Baby Leaving

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

Glennon, Abby, and Amanda share the bittersweet moment they dropped Tish off at college—and how they’re navigating the lucky grief of parenting older kids. If you, too, are in the middle of this landslide—learning how to hold on and let go as your kids grow up—this conversation is for you.  Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Okay, Pod Squad, here we are today. I have been a little bit dreading this episode to tell you the truth. I keep pushing it off and off and off and saying to the team, why don't we record something else today? But here we are. What we are going to talk about with you today is, well, we just dropped our tishy off at college. And that has brought up low so many feelings and existential dreads and love and love and terror and so many big feelings.

And so the moment that I knew I wanted to talk to you all about this is the moment right before we left Tish in her dorm room. And here's the thing. I, when the kids were little, talked about them a lot to you all to this community. We were in the trenches together of young parenthood. We were dripping with children and they were sucking us dry. And the only thing that we could do to survive while we were being mercilessly pecked to death by chickens in our homes was to commiserate together. And that was a beautiful thing. And then the kids got older.

and I started feeling a real strong sense of protection of them. It's like when they get to a certain age, you realize that they have their own story and they're living their own life. And the Venn diagram of what is ours to share becomes smaller and smaller and smaller the older they get until there is no overlap in terms of what is shareable. Right? I mean, that's how, I think that's very true. I know, but that's too true to say out loud. Yeah, but the reverse of that is unless, until there's nothing shareable by you, you know, like, then they are the shares of their own story. So it's not like silence. It's like you don't get to be the person anymore. Right. Okay. Okay. But that's lonely, right? Because it's not like, oh, as the Venn diagram gets smaller, things get a shit ton easier. It's harder. Harder in some.

ways but you can't you can't talk about it because it's more it feels more intimate and particular whereas like toddlers are going to toddler and they're all the same but it suddenly feels like they're specific yeah to their character or struggles or and you can't talk about it anymore that's what it is it's particular it's like nobody's going to be pissed at me when they're 30 because I mentioned that they were teething because that is something that just happens to everybody or not sleeping or crying or whatever but then just being a general asshole three-year-old asshole like it's different to be a particular 13-year-old asshole than a general three-year-old asshole exactly and also just as a side note like it was just our consciousness changed so much

I you know when our when I was writing mom mastery and blogging we didn't have a general consciousness about maybe we shouldn't put our baby's faces on social media yeah it felt very like this is what we do this is how we love this is how we share our families like and then oof that is one thing that I look at very differently now than I did then I feel like and I always wonder if how if our kids will ever understand that it really was a different consciousness or they're just like why did you do anyway side tangible. It's like what do you see the pictures of your parents, like, smoking cigarettes at your, um, at your baby shower. And you're like, really, y'all? Yeah. And they're like, yeah, really. We weren't so sure about that.

Yes. I think, exactly. I think of it as how I think about our parents with like diet culture. Like, did you really not know better than saying those things? No, they didn't. And, and we really did not know better. I literally had a cigarette in my mouth when I was four years old. Oh. They took a picture of me. It was not lit. I was just like a, you know, a precocious little kid and I just had it in my mouth. And like I literally have that picture in my, in my, what does it call? Well, your parents are glad they didn't have social media. They would have been in big trouble.

But, but I do think that is a similar vibe. Like they're going to look at us like, wait what? So the point of this is that I, many years ago, many myths, six, seven years ago really stopped talking about them completely. which, as you mentioned Amanda, is kind of this terrible part of raising older kids because the problems do get more complicated and it does get harder mentally. It's physically more challenging as kids when they're little and then just so emotionally and mentally challenging and scary. And then you have less of a support system because their stories are theirs and you can't

share. And anyway, well, they have opinions about your feelings about them. So, you know, when they're young, they don't know anything different. And when they're older, they're like, I don't think that that's right. And you're like, oh. And they're usually right. Yeah. It's not right. Oopsies. But I'm standing in the dorm room. We've already been through. I mean, when I say months of preparation for this moment, like, we. have sat together and talked about over and ad nauseum as you might imagine two lesbian parents do with their daughter, just like circling the drain of existential dread of this moment and how she wants it handled and what we're. And in true tish fashion, she has told us how she wants this handle. She has said to us, here's what I want and need. You two are not going to cry in the room. I won't be able to handle it. You're not going to cry in the dorm room. you're going to leave me and you're going to get in your car and then you're going to cry

and I need you to cry when you get in the car I need you to send me a video of you crying because I need to know that you cared enough to cry but I need it to not so the orchestration and control of this moment just makes my little Alanan heart swell and break or wisdom wisdom what she needs is a very thin line between control and wisdom I think it was very a lot of foresight, a lot of vulnerability. I need you to be devastated, just not devastated live in my face, but record it so I can refer to it as often as necessary. I think it's brilliant. Okay. Good, good anting. So we're in the room. I have brought with me a can of sanitizing wipes. Okay. I am, I come to my senses, right? And I am scrubbing the entire bunk bed with sanitizing wipes

as if this is going to save the world. Like the sweat equity, the, the, the, I'm sweating. I am, I am scrubbing. I need you know, I am not a clean person. Like, I don't do this. I am not. I am not. germaphobe, it would be better if I were more like this. So this is out of character. Not your typical love language, the scrubbing. It's not my love language. I am scrubbing down. It is this day. And then I have this moment where I just look at the baby Craig's there. He's working with some kind of little wrench or something. Wrench, a small wrench. He and Abby are wrenching, just putting all of their energy and might into raising this sleeping situation. A centimeter.

None of this matters. We're raising her bunk bed a little bit so she could put some stuff under it. Right. And I'm scrubbing with the sanitizing wipes. And I just realize, because I look to my left through the door at the other room. And there's this mom in there. And she is scrubbing with all of her might. She is scrubbing.

Her daughter's looking at her and going, it's clean. It's clean. And the mother is, that were relevant to what was happening. And that were relevant. And my heart just exploded for the parents in that moment because y'all, we were, we had nothing left but these sanitizing wipes to use, to love our children into the next moment. Like, we were scrubbing like it was the one thing. we could do in this crazy, scary world that could still be of some service or use to our kids. Like worst case scenario, you will not get sick in the first couple of weeks because this room will be

clean. Well, but it's also just like you. I can't protect you. I don't know if you're going to make friends. I don't know if people are going to like you. I don't know if it's going to be scary. I don't know if you're going to get an insured. I don't know if bad things. will happen to you. And I don't have any defenses against any of them. All I've got is these little sanitizing wipes. And all the moms had them. I kept looking through it. It's like, I think we maybe saw a TikTok about it. Like, I don't know how we all brought these sanitizing wipes. We all did. The algorithm is like, empty nesters in grief. Have you considered sanitizing wipes? They're like, okay, we'll try. And all of these parents are in the

hallways and I'm walking by watching them all do it and I just wanted I thought so much of this community because I actually wanted to be like you guys oh my god are we okay like I wanted to call all the parents out of the hallway and be like I know they're bitching at you and they just can't handle this moment and we can't handle this moment and this all this like snark and impatience and cleaning is all just love it's all just love and I just want us all to come out of the rooms and huddle up and hug each other. But that would have made dish so embarrassed. It is kind of interesting though.

So I thought I'll just, that's when I like stored it all up to talk about it here. Because I know so many of us are just like sanitized wiping our way through parenting because there's so little we can control. And as they get older, there's less and less. And so we just bring our little things. And it's so fruitless and it's so beautiful. Yeah. It's funny because, you know, walking through the halls or just even walking around campus,

all the parents are just trying to keep it together. And so when you catch one of the eyes, it's like this complete shared, we know what's happening here moment between all of us. And nobody says anything. Everybody just cut. It's like we're the walking grief. like we're all walking this like grief path and it's very bizarre it's a very solemn for half of the community and then the other half these freshmen are so excited it's like this the dissonance

between the two is unbearable yeah and then it's like and this is best case scenario this is the luckiest situation you know um so i just felt so much love and solidarity for all of us. I think it's all heightened too right now just because of this moment in the country and what we're sending our children into. And the moment in the scrubbing the rooms reminded me so much of the Good Bones poem. Yeah. Which maybe we'll pull up for the end. Maggie Smith. Yeah, Maggie Smith. Yeah, Maggie Smith. Yeah. So there was this one moment where right before we walked towards the dorm, we were all carrying all these bags.

It was me, Abby, Craig, Tish, Emma, Chase was, he had a trip. And Tish was like way ahead of us, of course. And she was holding her guitar and her book bag. So she had her backpack on in her guitar. and she was walking through this like, I don't know, almost like canopy of trees towards the dorm and it just stopped my heart because it was like a perfect image of her walking into her life because it was only her back and she wasn't looking at me to see if it was okay to keep going. She was not looking back and she had her guitar, which is like half of her personality.

And she had her backpack, which is her, like, student self, which is the other half of her personality. And she was just walking into her life. And I took a picture. I texted it to you, Amanda. And I just, the thing that kept playing in my mind was the line from Landslide, that song, where it says, I'm afraid of changing because I've built my life around you. that is just what kept playing in my mind over and over again. I'm not going to be able to keep it together.

Because it's like, it feels like a landslide, you know? It's like everything that you walked on, that you built, that you arranged your life around is just and you have to kind of start over. Jesus. Which is so interesting because the landslide song, that has been a recurring, I wrote about that. That is the song that was on playing in the house the moment I found out I was pregnant with Chase. And I wrote about it in Love Warrior. No way. Yeah, because it kept that line about, can I handle the seasons of my life?

And then she just says, I don't know. I love that so much. Probably Matt. but it's very um i've been thinking a lot about why it's so visceral and so deep and it's because all of these moments i think there's something at the eight there's something at the heart of of all of our pain and fear there's like one thing that is the ache and that is the idea that we're all going to leave each other yeah like that's it that is why we start wars and hate each other and get addicted and are miserable. Like it's this one basic

human universal pain, fear, truth, which is we are all going to lose each other. And these moments where you watch your baby walk away and you cannot go with them is like a rehearsal. It's like a dress rehearsal for the ultimate moment. That's why it strikes such a incredible nerve because it's like me watching my baby walk away and knowing I can't go with her and knowing in lots of ways she's on her own now and hoping that I've done what I could do to prepare her and hoping and hoping and hoping when all that's really left is hope because all your scheming is over is exactly what that moment when we leave them for real will be. And I think that's why it strikes up everything. It's like, yeah. I don't like right. Right?

Yeah, I don't like it, though. I don't like it. I'm, I was just like, geez, I got to figure out how to be a person again by myself. And here we are contemplating mortality and death. And yeah, that's the truest thing. I don't want to know that yet is what I'm saying. Like I don't, I'm, I'm just like, whoa, okay, how am I going to, how am I, I, I'm going to start baking. I mean, that's what I'm going to do.

That's good. There's your sanitizing wipes, Abby. You just start baking. I like thinking of it like that because it's dramatic and, of course, because I am dramatic and it's heavy. But it's not heavy in the way of like, I think it's beautiful that life gives you these moments where you can kind of experience it and then think, okay, what would I do differently?

If this were the ultimate moment, what would I have wished? I had shifted or done differently because, oh, my God, what a gift I get to do that now. Like, it's not over. And now it's time to thank the companies who allow you to listen to We Can Do Hard Things for free. You know what we don't talk enough about? Sleep. I mean, we spend a third of our lives doing it, and it literally impacts everything. Your mood, focus, workouts.

Even how you show up for the people you love. But here's the thing, not all sleep is good sleep. That's why I'm obsessed with my coop sleep goods and my coop adjustable pillow. It is revolutionary because it's an adjustable pillow where you can remove or add fill to fit your sleep needs. Back sleeper, side sleeper, stomach sleeper, this pillow actually adapts to you, not the other way around. I got two of these king size original adjustable pillows after I completed the short sleep quiz, which I highly recommend everyone do. You can ensure you're buying the exact right pillow for you. I love it. I love being able to take out the fill until it was perfectly adjusted to my neck and spine. You can feel

the difference and I want all of our listeners to try this pillow. Upgrade your sleep, visit coop sleepgoods.com slash hard things to get 20% off your first order. That's C, oh, O-P-Sleepgoods.com slash hard things. Much like the rest of our bodies, our hair changes over the years. You may have heard me talk about how after my daughter Alice was born, suddenly my hair was wavy, even curly. If there are any scientists listening to this that can tell me how that happened, I would be grateful.

That's when I found curl smith. This brand actually understands curly. wavy, coily hair. And they meet your hair exactly where it's at. Hydration, phrase control, volume, definition. They've got you. They even asked their community and 95% of curleys said they feel happier with their hair after using curl smith. I can confirm. I am one of them. What really helped me was their online quiz. It's quick and actually fun. You answer a few questions, it's about like your hair type, thickness, frizz, the climate you live in, and Curl Smith gives you a customized routine. My personal game changer has been the weightless

air dry cream. It's leave-in that smooths, detangles, and locks in moisture, giving me that glossy look I didn't even know I had in me. If you're ready to embrace your natural curls, it's time to join the Curl Smith community. At Curl Smith, we're celebrating curls and we know it's a curls world. Find your curl confidence and take the curl quiz at curlsmith.com to get 10% off your first purchase or shop curlsmith now at Ulta Beauty. This is a message for anyone who's ever felt like their braw was just fine. We're talking about bras. Yes, bras made with thoughtful details to solve common problems. Third love is here so you don't have to settle for good enough. Third Love is a company founded by women who know what's struggling to find a bra

feels like. This is a huge issue. So many people out there are wearing the wrong bra and they don't even know it. For over 10 years, Third Love has been redefining what a comfortable bra looks and feels like, focusing on innovative design and high quality materials. Want to stay cool and comfortable all day? Third Love offers innovative thermo-regulating fabric that has you covered. Looking for a little extra lift, need smoothing, even need to add.

Add a cup size, they've got it. And the fit, it's unmatched. Third Love believes everyone deserves a bra that fits perfectly, which is why they offer over 60 sizes from AA through H. They even have exclusive half cup sizes, which is my favorite part, which means if you're in between sizes, you can still get a perfect fit every time. Stop settling for average bras, get solutions made for your body. Get $15 off your perfect fit braw at thirdlove.com with code podcast.

15. That's thirdlove.com code podcast 15. You know, I was thinking a lot about some things that I would do differently. And it was in, I left Tisha letter. And in it, I was writing about how one of the things that amazes me most about her is her absolute refusal to abandon herself and her absolute trust in herself. She always kind of just knows what she needs and then she asks for it and does it regardless of what everyone else is doing. She's like not super susceptible to peer pressure. And, you know, she, when she was going into preschool, she was four, and she was like, I'm not ready for this. And it wasn't like a, I don't know. This level of stress is just

not going to work. My body is not ready to acclimate to that environment. Exactly. She was like, oh, so see, I just got here like four years ago. It's a fair point. Yeah, I'm not going to that place with those people. So I don't know how to explain it other than when she made a decision like that. It just felt rational and important. It was just like, yes, that sounds right. I mean, we, that's when I started a preschool in my house for our neighborhood because it was called Dreams Preschool. It was the absolute. best. You're the best. That's so sweet. And then when she, and then one day she was like, all right, I'm ready. Let's go. It was the next year. And she was like, I know like the teacher. Can we go to school? She was like, I'm going to actually need an education. It turns out. So she went and she never looked back. And then this year, right after high school, the same thing happened. She was like, actually, I'm not ready to go. I'm not ready to go to college. And so she took a

Gapier. And it was amazing for her. I mean, it really, I think sometimes when you're just going and going, I feel this energetically for myself, too, when you're like on a treadmill that the culture has put you on and you're just going and going and going and you're like, you know, onto the next treadmill. Just that's where the culture told me to go. So on to the next, It actually, there's a lot of benefits of just getting off completely and thinking about what you actually want and not just defaulting into the, you know, jet stream of like really being intentional about what you want next. I think she went in this year because of that intentional space with much more clear desire and gratitude and excitement. And she was older. She went through a lot in the gap year. She missed her friends.

And she was experiencing a lot of FOMO from her friends who were posting all about their freshman college experience. And going through some of that turmoil and kind of friction inside of her, honestly, it made her really make the, like, really choose school. Yeah. And then just the maturity level. Like, honestly, like my body was so much more relaxed. than it would have been had she had not taken the gap here. Totally. Can you imagine?

Yeah. Like I felt like, oh, yeah, you do have yourself. And you're ready. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think it's really, really cool that you're talking about this because I feel like there's a, because this is so typical, such a typical experience.

Like many, many families go through this, that there's this kind of. conflation of typical with normal or regular. And so I was at a dinner this weekend and it was John and me and two other couples. And one of them had just dropped their first born off a college. And we were like, how did it go? You know, the usual like small chat stuff. And they were like absolutely awful and traumatic and crushing and we are in such grief and they talked all about it and it was so refreshing and beautiful because I feel like there's this idea I mean not dissimilar to when you lose someone in life there's like things you're supposed to say you're supposed to be like well you know we had a beautiful service and well you know they were sick

for a while and well, you know, like things that make it palatable and they were like it's absolutely not palatable. We go, the things they were describing all of his friends, they work at the place where we go every week and we keep going there and we keep looking for them and they're not there. And we have to remind ourselves that they're not there and they're never going to be there in the same way. And, you know, on Friday night, we're waiting for him to get home and tell us about all of the like crazy shit they did and hear the stories and we're not going to get that. And this whole like ecosystem of the four of us that we have spent 18 years building with their younger sibling will never be that again.

It will be different. Maybe it'll be more beautiful, but it will never be that. And that's what the landslide is. It's like that thing, similar to everything else in our life, like you're building meticulously with care and it's there and it's in front of you and you see it. And then one minute, it is gone and irretrievably so. It will never be that thing again. It will be different and lovely if you're lucky.

But I just think it's odd that we don't talk about this as. as the incredible grief that it is a lucky grief but but a real yes a lucky grief it's just hard though because i think like the parents like the way that i experienced this in my body like i kept having to remind myself not to center myself that this is not my experience yes i am having an experience and this is making a big impact on my life. But in the dorm room, I just remember being like, this is not your moment. This is Tish's moment.

And so it's like this, this like magician trick that parents have to do in their mind to not center themselves. And so then when you get into the car, you've held it all together or tried to at least. And then we know what our reality is, but our kids aren't thinking, what is this like for my parents, you know, like they're not. They're not worried about us in any way,

shape or form. And so it's like this weird thing that we do feel this grief. And it is hard. And it is life upending. And it is confusing. And it and it is and it is. And I think that's why I wanted to do this episode. Yeah. Because I was like, this isn't for her. Right. But this is a thing for us. It is a thing. And we shouldn't have to just stick. to the script. And when we're together as parents in this phase, we should be able to talk about, because it's about the landslide of what you've built, of your identity, of your community. For me, it's very much a landslide of my only, the only place I've ever felt real belonging. I don't go around feeling belonging in groups. This is the only little

group I've ever truly felt safe in, relaxed in, seen in. So that is a big loss. But then there's another thing that I think has to do with not just grief for self, but a confusing grief, which is just watching your baby enter the complications of adulthood. As you know, I've been rereading to the lighthouse this week and there's this part about where Mrs. Ramsey just looks at her little girl or knows at her little boy and just thinks feels this internal grief and the words that come to her mind are you'll never be this happy again. And I don't think we talk about that enough. Like why is it that we feel such reluctance or a grief or fear of a last? their world to become bigger and them going out into the world.

And I think it's because we know what it's like to be human. Because one of the reasons that it's so adorable and feels so cozy, although it's exhausting, to have a three or four year old, is that you know that you got them. You got them. And like all their little grief, they might be crying for six hours because they can't find their passy, but like you know that you can handle that grief. like but they're creating your own culture yeah you're like this is our culture and i am the maker of it and then you're like unfortunately i'm submitting you to that external culture because i can no

longer curate your culture yes and all of the all of what comes with being a human being on the earth so i'm watching tishwalk away through the tree canopy with her little backpack, it's not about you're going to college. It's about you're going to adulthood. Like, you're going to, no matter what, you're going to experience such heartbreak and such loss and such delusion and such joy and such magic. And hopefully it's, you know, the 51% thing. It's just a little bit better than the, but you do know that that's where they're headed towards Every single up and down and pain and beauty that you have walked. And it just makes, I kept thinking it's not sad is not what I'm feeling.

I kept saying to Abby, it's just the magnitude. It's not sad. It's just so big. I think one thing for me, I don't know, this may not. make any sense whatsoever. But when I first got into this family, there was an actual real life thought that I was like, okay, I know that I've got 10 years with these kids. And the next thought is, oh, that's like, that's a pretty good amount of time to not have to worry about thinking about other things. Like kids are such, um, they,

allow you to not have to think about the hot loneliness of yourself. They're like a North Star. They're a good blocker. Blocker. They take up a lot of time and space that you don't have to actually fill the void with of yourself. And so when I, you know, Emma's a senior in high school now. And so the big one is coming next year. And I keep having to think, well, we should just start doing generational living. I think when they're done with college, they'll just move back with us. A lot of cultures do this. Thank you. This is very American that we just think you got to be out on your own, you're independent. Whatever. It's also very American that they will all come back and live with you for six years because we don't have any jobs. Yeah. So good.

news, bad news. Yeah, good news, bad news. But truly, I do think that there are good way to not have to think about maybe our own shit. A hundred percent. You know, and so that's something that I'm feeling in my body like, oh, okay, like maybe that's part of this grief and fear of like what we are personally walking into aside from them. Yeah. You don't think about your own life. That is what when you were saying like the ache at the center of everything and that's that we're going to lose everyone in my head I was like oh I know what she's going to say and it wasn't that it like for me for me my ache at the very center is just this gaping emptiness which is the same thing as we're going to lose everyone the same thing

is like there's nothing there there that will stay and what is the center and is it and and I think that's why we just like fill fill fill because like if you keep filling there will you'll never have to face the emptiness and so when i think about like empty nest i'm like emptiness like the idea that like when it's going when there isn't something to love to fixate on to pour into to fill fill fill fill filling them up filling them up it's filling them up right and and and you of course are fulfilled somewhat too but like then you're just left with your own emptiness and you've got to figure that shit out or get take a pickle ball or something i don't know what you do but like there is that's a real scary prospect

yeah but and it's so funny because it's like i think at the core of things it It does come down to what is life, what does, gives us meaning, what is life worth living? It's, it's all that because basically if we don't, if we think that the state of being human is just emptiness, that's what makes the walk away so hard because it's like, that's what I'm passing on to you. That's what I brought you here for. Like that is, can't be it. That just cannot be it.

Otherwise, none of this is worth it. Because when you're watching your baby walk away, you want to be thinking and knowing in your bones, yes, you're going to have so much pain. And yes, you're going to have emptiness. And yes, you're going to be. But also, this is worth it because what's going to come with that is going to make all of that almost okay. Yes. But I think like for my crazy brain, it's like I don't feel the fear of emptiness for them. Why not? Because I feel, and this is how crazy I am, I feel that what I have done and built with them somehow gives them an immunity. Like that has been my purpose to try to give to them a different way. So when they go, So goes my purpose, so goes my, I am left with not the effort to try to make sure they don't have the whole of emptiness, but just with my own emptiness. Oh, so you feel like you, when they walk away, they will have like a pail full of water that you have poured into them, but you will be left with no liquid. because you have not like filled for yourself so is that what it feels like like you will be left with then no nothingness

well just with like figuring out both a like I have to figure out if my life is enough is is full is because it's not a question if they're there. Right. Like I don't ask that question of myself. But then when I think about them not being there, it's not as, it's not an easy question to answer. And it leaves you with all the other questions. Like I know I have so many friends who honestly really don't like their partners. But it doesn't matter almost. When you're in the trenches of parenthood, you're so busy. You're so you're just dividing and conquering. And I think there's a lot of dread in that that people are like, oh, my God, now I'm stuck

with you for 30 more years or without even a mission. That's why there's like 40% more breakups, more divorces right after kids leave for college. Because you're not even looking to that. If you're finding your fulfillment over here, you're not even looking over there. And then people look over there and they're like, what the fucks? And then you look at the siblings. There's that thing. I mean, I can't even get started about that.

How are Chase and Amma doing? Well, a beautiful thing is that our oldest actually graduated from college last year and came home. And when we talked to him about how long he was going to be home. And he actually came home to help Emma through losing Tish to college because which is so beautiful. I can't even. But those two girls, I mean, Abby and I were talking in bed the night before we left and we were like, this probably for our youngest is more earth-shattering than the divorce. Because your siblings are who is there with you in the trenches no matter what. The divorce happened so early for Emma, but her one constant, her two constants, until Chase left

has always been her siblings. So I don't know. I just know that it's really, really tough. Yeah. I'm the youngest of seven. And so I experienced it six times where somebody would leave. And then a few years later, somebody else would leave. And then it came down to the last one.

And it's like, It's kind of a weird thing because then you are just like left with your parents. And who wants that? You know, it's just like your parents and just one of you, like it's just kind of weird. And all their angst and love is just pointed straight at you like a beam of sun that's going to burn you into like oblivion. So it's so beautiful that that our oldest has decided to stay at least for a little while to give Emma a little buffer. You know, she's going in whatever, seven to ten months. Oh, God, Jesus.

Abby, you didn't need to say that. Yeah. And now it's time for our ads. I am a big fan of the sunshine. I need the sun in my life like my body does photosynthesis. And despite all of that, I somehow am deficient in vitamin D. And for a minute, I had no clue what to do next. There's a ton of supplement brands out there, and they're all making big.

claims. But if you're looking for transparency, it's ritual all the way. Ritual put their essential for women 18 plus multivitamin through a university-led clinical trial. In just 12 weeks, participants saw vitamin D levels increased by 43% and omega-3 DHA levels by 41%. I love it when I can tell what's in the bottle is backed up by trials. Because, and I know this is revolutionary, I want to know exactly what I'm putting into my body. That's why ritual stands out. Every morning I take my ritual multi, just two capsules. They're delayed release so the nutrients actually get absorbed where they're supposed to.

It's perfect and easy addition to my morning routine. No more shady business. Rituals essential for women is a multivitamin you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month only at ritual.com slash we can do hard things. Start Ritual Today and add essential for women to your subscription today. That's ritual.com slash we can do hard things for 25% off. Okay, team, here's a stat for you. 6,000 people hit menopause every single day.

6,000. And yet, how often do you see menopause talked about? Almost ever. That's where the 19th comes in. They're an independent nonprofit newsroom reporting on gender, politics, policy, and power, and making sure stories that matter to women and LGBTQ-plus people actually get told. Because let's be real when those voices are missing in journalism and in leadership, the coverage is not complete. Now the 19th is launching something new,

a menopause newsletter. It's all about paramenopause, menopause, and the cultural experience of navigating middle age. Plus all the expectations society piles on during that time. Each week through the end of the year, the 19th will be connecting with experts to break down symptoms, decipher new medical research, and share real stories. It's about feeling more informed and a little less alone. Check out 19th News.org slash hard things to sign up today. Whether you are working remotely or in office, many of us require collaborating

with team members on projects, tasks, and outcomes. Monday.com is one of our sponsors and a platform that our team at Treat Media has actually used to coordinate our workflow. It is a platform that helps you from planning to execution, thinks ahead to denlines, assign owners and actions, and allows you to see progress as a team. It actually helps us get some work done. There's a lot of AI out there, but not a lot actually moves the needle. Monday.com's sidekick is different. It can actually build workflows, spot risk update the team. You just say what you need and you can consider it done. Sidekick in Monday.com saves so much time using our sidekick integration, help to update deadlines, brief teammates,

re-sign tasks, and it even helps us spot risks before they actually become problems. Stop managing the busy work, let Monday sidekick handle it so you can focus on the real work. Try Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use on Monday.com. It's wild because the first essay that I ever wrote that really went viral and started this whole thing, honestly, was this essay called Don't Carpe Diem. And it was about now this has been, the versions of this have been written a million times so it won't feel new, but it felt new at the time. It was this like phenomenon that kept happening to me where I would be in a long.

probably at some grocery store or something and you know I'd have the baby in one arm and the toddler like grabbing the lollipops and the five-year-old begging for the thing and they're all yelling in the line and I want to like just melt into the floor and inevitably some well I would have described her back then as an older woman okay so someone our age a woman a middle-aged woman who at the time I was like this person is, you know, elderly, would come over to me and, like, have this soft look on her face. The face did not match the situation as if there was not carnage around and her face would get really soft. And she would say, oh, honey, it goes by so fast, enjoy every moment. And I would always think, this one, you want me to enjoy this moment right now?

And I would get a little annoyed about it because I felt like perhaps you're not reading the room. Like perhaps perhaps what's not needed in this moment is an extra layer of shame that not only should I not be just surviving this moment, but I should actually be cherishing this fucking moment. Like I just couldn't understand what was being required of me by the older elderly women who were probably 10 years. younger than me now. Okay? Yeah. Now, from where I sit now, I feel so jealous of those women in the grocery lines. Really? Yeah, but I don't want to beat them for like a long period of time. And I definitely don't want their kids because their kids look a mess. What I would give for just one, this is what I think about sometimes. I don't want more babies ever. I don't want anyone else's

babies. I don't want more babies. But I would, if I could have one wish or time travel, I would love to just be like, okay, just give me like one day when they were like five and two and zero. Like just like snuggle them. And anyway. So I think I feel. both ways. Like, I feel when I see those women in line dripping with their babies wanting to melt, I feel, I can remember how hard that was. I would never actually go up to them and say, enjoy every moment. Like, what I would do is maybe be like, can I hold that baby while you look for your change in your purse? You know, like I might want to step in and help. But I also feel like parenting has been this situation where it feels like a roller coaster.

The first, I want to say like eight years, it's just, you know, when you're on a roller coaster and it's like that first big hill and you're just, it's like you're going up the hill and so effing slow, like you're never going to get to the top and all it's doing is building anticipation and terror, and that is how early parenting feels like it's just, I mean, I remember being so exhausted and feeling like looking at Chase on the floor when he was like 10 months and then looking at the clock and it was like 8.30 in the morning. I was like, oh, my God, we have 17 more hours. It's been six years since we woke up. Like that, chik, chik. And then, this thing happens. It's like there's a crest. For me, it was like right around when they were

eight or nine. And all I can tell you is now it feels like I blinked. This ride took off and now we're like in that part at the end. And Abby and I and Craig are still in our seats, like trying to figure out what just happened. And we're just, our kids have gotten out of the car and they're just walking away. And all we can see is their backs. And we're, we're just like, wait, what happened? It's like you also have this idea that you're going to like have enough time to like fix some things. There'll be time for edits, right?

We're going to get another pass at this. Post-production. I always have this feeling that I'm just about to figure it out that like I am who I am today, but like I'm about to like nail this. And for sure I'm going to nail it before it's over. And then they're walking away. And you're like, wait, but I thought there would be more time to, like, get some things right. And then you're kind of just left with your people on the little cart just staring at each other.

I mean, Craig and Abby and I just stared at each other. Just like, wide eye, just like, is this it? Did we do it? Is what do we do now? We're just like in the cart staring at each other, watching them walk away, hoping that it was enough. and wondering what the hell we're supposed to do now. Yeah, definitely wondering what the hell we're supposed to do now is creeping in. I think that I have a different feeling about it in that I also feel equally as excited as I do sad.

I feel equally as excited because my hope is that I live so long that I get to know. know who they continue to become and like their adulthoodness and their and what they like struggle through and what they are trying to like I'm curious as to like what what will happen with them you know like that is almost equally as exciting as it is to think about like what now we we are walking away from in a way. and I understand it's just nostalgia you know it's like this idea of how can I replicate how can I hold on to how can I like this the world is ever moving and it doesn't stop and like how can I hold on to a moment and then also make them also hold on to the moment because think about us

I don't have any, like, I have, like, very few memories of my childhood. Oh, I can't even think about that. Do you know? That's why I over-send them pictures constantly. I just want to keep front and center all I've done for them. Let the record show. Can you go through the actual goodbye with Tish and what happened, like walk through the steps? Because I was fine.

I know you were. Until Emma. Oh, God, Amma started crying and holding on to her. And that was just, I don't want to tell too much of it because it's hers, but that was really something. Craig was all teary-eyed. Tish was crying. You guys hugging just absolutely crushed me. I left her.

When she went to preschool, finally, she. After her first gap year. I was kind of hoping she would like she, because she let me start dreams preschool in our basement. So I was kind of hoping she was going to like let me start dreams college in our basement. Dreams middle school. Here we come. It was real though, you guys. We had like kids from the neighborhood at our preschool.

It was very real. It was very, it was a serious school. Oh God. That just reminds me. So we used to do these. crafts every day, you know. And we used to do a lot with glitter. And anyone who's a teacher knows that the glitter is just, oh my God. The worst. Once you introduce glitter, it's just going to live with you forever. And Tish, I had cleaned out the basement, put her to bed after

the preschool. All the kids went home. And I had cleaned out all the trays and dumped the glitter in the toilet because that's what you have to do with glitter. You can't. Just trust me. Preschool teachers know. And at dinner that night, Tish, she was four. This is, if this is not Tish in a nutshell, she is eating her dinner and she goes, you guys, today, I was pooping. Oh, my God. And sprinkles came out of my butt. Because she thought, she pooped, looked in the toilet, saw it filled with glitter, and thought, yep, that's about right.

Of course, I shit sprinkles. Can't wait to tell them. because they haven't believed in my fairy powers not once. This should close the case. I don't think I corrected her. Every little girl should really believe that they should sprinkle. I pooped and sprinkles came out my bottom. Yes, I remember that.

That's what it was. I pooped and sprinkles came out of my bottom. That's what it was. Yep. I know that because we have it on a mug because my dad makes mugs of all of the kids' wildest sayings. so we do have a mug that says and then sprinkles came out of my bottom. Anyway, the day before she actually went to preschool, we read the book that so many of us read our babies before they go to school, which is called The Kissing Hand, which is like about this mama raccoon who

sends her baby to school. And then she, before the baby goes to school, she kisses his hand so that when he misses her, he can put his hand on his cheek and feel her love. with my letter gave her another copy of the kissing hand and before she left before I left I just kissed my hand and oh it was a whole thing um oh I didn't know that you didn't tell me that you kissed her hand yeah I had to I left because when Amma started crying I had to actually I said I love you I gave her hug because I was holding together and I got in the stairwell and she lives on the seventh floor and you weren't allowed to use the elevators only the people moving in could use the elevators. And so I was in the the stairwell shaft and just bawling. Like

just crying. And by the time I gave myself seven floors by myself. And as soon as I got down to the bottom floor, because I didn't want Emma to feel like this is going to be the way that I'm like I didn't want her to feel guilty. It'll be real fun at home, y'all. Yeah. And so I gave myself seven floors to cry it out. And I got downstairs and I ran down because I needed to give myself a little bit more time before you guys could make your way down so i didn't know how your goodbye really went yeah that's it you guys i don't really have a lot else i just wanted to i just wanted to just talk about it a little bit out of love for not just our kids but for each other and like what we did and what and how hard it is to have a job where your entire where success

is putting yourself out of that job and where the thing that is required is the letting go of the thing that you love more than anything. It's a freaking hard ask. Yeah. Well, it's not exactly all there is because we have a little surprise for you and Abby and that is that we have a little what video message from Tishie that um what that is coming here now that we asked her to said we were going to do this um this episode and asked her to send whatever she wanted to send for it so this video is filmed by my lovely roommate um and the question is what something that i want you guys to know about my experience here so far that maybe I haven't told you and I want to tell you and I think that I want you to know that every time I think of you and think of home

I really don't get sad anymore because I just am reminded what I have to fall back on whenever I need to and I know I will need to and I think that means that you did something right or everything right who knows but I guess we'll find out as I embark on this new chapter and I love you guys so much. Okay. Okay, can we end now? Yes. Okay, bye. Okay, love you. Bye.

We Can Do Hard Things is an independent production brought to you by Treat Media. We make art for humans who want to see. stay human. Forever Dog is our production partner and you can follow us at We Can Do Hard Things on Instagram and at We Can Do Hard Things show on TikTok.