We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - How to Rethink Being “Left Out” & Glennon’s Top 3 Embarrassing Mishaps Going Out

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

In this follow up to our previous episode on Being Left Out – Episode 241 Being Left Out: Navigating that Lifelong Ache – Abby, Amanda and Glennon dive into a listener question about being left out and having to leave people out: Why it hurts so much; advice for listeners on a kinder, more honest way to leave someone else out; and some of the times Glennon has felt wildly left out at big, scary, fancy events. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today's episode is for anyone who has ever felt left out. I.e. everyone. So we did this episode a while back, episode 241, that was all about feeling left out. It was just like a conversation about the universal lifelong ache of feeling left out. And people felt excited about that episode.

We got hundreds and hundreds of messages from you all about different types of feeling left out because in that episode we were talking a lot about socially feeling left out. This episode really opened the conversation to all different forms of being left out. And is it something that we should solve or is it just a part of the human experience that teaches us something and it can't be solved? And also people leaving other people out or being seen as leaving other people out when really they're just exercising their preferences and their right to choose who they want around them. Exactly. And what do you do with that? Exactly. Okay, so here comes the third grade teacher and me. Everyone's invited. Don't you dare bring an invitation to this classroom unless everyone is

invited. That was my vibe. However, aren't we supposed to be teaching children to make choices about who they led into their lives and who treats them well and who they feel safe with. And so maybe that isn't the best. It's just a fascinating conversation. I agree. I have some more to add. Do you think that the feeling of being left out is a rejection of death?

Abbie's been thinking about death a lot lately. So we're just going to keep going with this. Baby, tell us more. I've been thinking a lot about death as it relates to my birth, because I think they're two and the same. And we come into the world alone, and we leave the world alone.

Correct. And I think that in the middle, we're trying to convince ourselves that we aren't actually in fact alone. Damn. Damn. Please. Yeah. Damn. Damn. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Like Tish, I'm sure I've told this story before, but our little existential oozing child, he would come into our room at like two in the morning and be like, I'm alone. And I'd say, you're not honey. I'm right here. And she'd go, no, I'm alone inside my skin. You can't get in here and I can't get out. It's true.

That shit is true. It's terrifying. And I think that that's why the feeling of being left out hurts so much. It's because it's this primal instinct that we are trying to always avoid the truth of the fact that like we're all alone. We're all going to die and we are all also alone currently in this moment. Well evolutionarily, scientists believe that it is such a strong need like up with the basic human needs of food and shelter, etc. Because thousands of years ago, if you were rejected out of the group, you would die.

Right. You needed the security of the group in order to survive during that time. So they believe that that was passed down, that we equate being exiled from a group, not belonging to a group to be life threatening on some level, evolutionarily. But also maybe that's the point. Maybe it is in fact the process here to create community so that you can survive the time that we are here. I don't know.

Well, you're both saying the same thing. Yeah. It has to do with death. Both. Yeah. It has to do with death. Both. Yeah, it has to do with being peeled off from the group or just facing the fact that you're all alone in your skin and you can't get out and no one can get in. Yeah.

Either way, it's about existential dread, right? Yeah. Also, it's about really good birthday parties and not wanting to not go with them. Yeah. But like when kiddos, when they're left out of a social group or you know in high school, those feelings are so horrific. It is existential. Like we don't understand sometimes why that feels so dramatic, but it is because your fight or flight doesn't know that you're not about to be picked off,

that you're not the lone animal in the field that the group has gone on without and that now you're the most vulnerable. That's right. When you're picked off and you're alone, you feel vulnerable. So we talked about this morning, sister and I were talking about when and where we feel the most left out. And I was talking about social media makes me feel left out. I make conscious decisions about things I don't want to do and don't care about and don't want to be involved in. And then I go on social media and I feel suddenly like I'm not doing enough. I'm missing all these opportunities.

I don't know. And I feel it happening in my body. And then I like remember that 10 minutes ago, I didn't have any problems. And now I have so many problems suddenly. I know that that is how a lot of people feel, but I think it's really important since it's so pervasive to keep reminding ourselves that like that's what we're doing often when we get on to scroll,

is just giving ourselves a lot of problems that we didn't have a minute ago. That's an interesting way of thinking about it. Hey baby, I love you so much, but you're using my armrest and it's not as comfortable for me and I'm feeling left out of this chair. So can we just scoot this, this way?

I feel like Abby's therapy is working really well and she's expressing a lot of feelings and boundaries and it's really uncomfortable for me. But I just think that you're getting a little bit... Oh my God. Is this better? Am I far enough away from you? No. So anyway, the truth of the matter is the place that I feel terror existential left-outedness dread is a place that we don't really do anymore because of this, but it is at fancy,

like red carpet things. Oh my god, yes. Okay, and I have thought a lot. I mean, Abby, we're just gonna tell you a story or two, God's God, because I have thought a lot about this. Why do I despise it so much? And I used to say to other people and to myself, it's because there's too much attention there. People are staring at you, people are taking pictures. People are paying too much attention to me there.

In my truthiest truth, I hate it because no one's paying attention to me. Yeah. Okay, that is the truth. That is the truth because there is a left outedness that has to do with attention and importance. A hierarchical situation that's happening on the red carpet.

Okay, and when I go to a red carpet, there are zero times where I'm even close to the top 60% of the most important people there, according to the people with the flashes. Okay, so PodSquad, I just need you to understand what this is like. Someone tells you that you have to dress up and go to this thing,

and then you dress up in these very awkward clothes, and then you stand in a line where somebody stands in this line and they just decide who's most important, okay? So you could be waiting there an hour and a half. People just get pulled around. You don't just walk? Totally.

You don't walk? Well, it depends. Some events, it just depends on the event. Lots of times they stop you until everyone who's more important then you go, okay? So you just stand there and you try to dissociate and pretend that you don't understand what's happening. And it's really embarrassing because-

It's humiliating. Because sometimes the photographers have no fucking clue who you are. So the handler, the person who's at the front of the red carpet, they have a whiteboard and they like write your name on the whiteboard and they're walking next to you so that

the photographers will call out the correct name. Oh, but wait a minute. They only write down your name if you're Abby Wambach. If you're Abby Wambach's wife, who they don't have a freaking clue, you don't even get a whiteboard. You stand there. Okay. And you just try to smile,

try to pretend like you have any dignity left because they're screaming, oh, it's so stressful, they're screaming, they're screaming your name. No, they're not. They sure aren't screaming my name. No one is screaming my name, okay? They call people over to ask questions.

No one's calling me over. It's humiliating. It just confirms every fear that you utterly irrelevant and uninteresting and no one cares that you exist. But if you're going to be irrelevant, have some dignity and be irrelevant at home. I am there. I am dressed up. You are electing into this judgment upon you. And then Abby is so sweet that she knows what's going on. So they're screaming Abby's name. So Abby's like bringing me over to the reporters.

And then like- Oh, that's even worse. Oh my God, it's the worst. And then she'll be like, this is my wife. And then the sweet reporter, if they're sweet, gives me like a pity question or something. So I have to like rush through the pity question because we all know no one cares. They probably stopped the recording. It's just horrific. What do we do now with the red carpets? What's the last one we went to?

Okay. Oh yeah. Well, I'm going to tell you about three red carpets. Number one, a couple red carpets ago, I figured out I could wear sunglasses. Do you remember this? Uh-huh. OK. If I wear sunglasses on the red carpet, then I can close my eyes while it's happening. OK. OK. This is what I told myself. I can close my eyes. You guys.

Pretend I'm not there in the mysterious way. Like, I can basically pretend I'm asleep the whole time. Stand there. So this is a mode to dissociate. Yes. Dissociate. As well as mentally. Because like it was for Angel City, I understand that's, we're doing something.

I think I have to go. So I'm going to go, but I'm going to find a way to do it where I could not be there. So close my eyes, sunglasses, fucking brilliant. All right, I get to the end of the red carpet. I don't even know what happened. How do you walk? Well, you open your eyes in between stops. I'm not walking. Oh, okay, okay.

Right, but you have to keep stopping and looking. But when the people are pretending to take your picture, your eyes are closed. Okay? Now, what happened, Abby? Please tell, please tell the pod squad what we discovered that night when they sent us the pictures. Well, what happened? The flash will show your eyes. Exactly. Yeah. All the pictures are The flash will show your eyes. Exactly. Yeah, all the pictures are from me and Abby standing there. You can see completely through to my face

and my eyes are closed in every single picture. As if I'm standing and sleeping. Yeah, eyes closed the whole time. All right, the last red carpet we go to, we decided we're gonna do this because it was for Ted Lasso. And we love that show so much and it's so fucking sweet that show. And so they were like,

we're so important for us to have Abby and Glennon. I'm so excited about it. So I'm like, oh God, okay, I'll go and pretend it's important. So important for us to have Abby and two of us are plus one. Abby and that wife that's so important to her, we should invite her too. Better chance she'll come, okay? So this is like really the first thing I'd done

after my recovery had started. And so I really felt like we got there and we're standing at the end of the thing and all the lights, it's this place in LA, everything shut down, huge, so many people there. And there's a ton of people in the line to walk the red carpet. It was gonna take about 30 to 40 minutes

for everybody in the line for the red carpet to get into the theater to watch the premiere. And it was gonna take two hours for me because they're gonna let everybody else get ahead of me. Okay, so Abby looks at me and she goes, we don't have to do this. And I was like, are you serious? We don't have to do this, we can skip this.

So we get out of the line. We go behind the huge screen. We are stealthily trying to creep behind the screen, because you can't go in front, because then people will see you leave the line. So we're walking behind the screen, and we see Jason's neck is his two sisters. Yeah, his family.

His whole family, his kids. They're all hiding behind the screen. Yeah, we're all doing that. We're all hanging out with them. It was the best. That was actually so much better. The other scared people behind the screen are where you want to be.

Before I end this red carpet tirade, I do want to tell you one story. Years ago, Abby was still trying to, with like fancy and big things, win the children's affection. Our children are not into these sorts of things in any way, but the Espes were happening. And the Espes are like the Oscars for the sportspeople. Okay, they get together, they wear fancy things, there's a red carpet, they say, here's your trophy for your big play, your big win, you know, it's like that. Yep. Okay, so Abby gets invited. Abby says, I think we should go because this is the one where

Ally Reisman and Simone Biles and these people that the children love are going to be there. I was presenting an award. They asked me to present an award. You were presenting an award for Simone Biles, right? So because the children got so excited, I was considering it, even though I was terrified. And Abby says, I promise you that I will not leave you. I will not leave you at this thing,

to make small talk or have to explain what I'm doing there. Or when someone says, what are you? And I say, I'm a writer. And they say, what are you right? And I say, I don't know how to answer this question. They say, is there anything that you've ever written that I would know about? It's just humiliating. It was 2017.

Years before untamed. Yeah. So we decide we'll go. We go to the red carpet. There's children with us, the whole thing, I run, I just try to run the children down the red carpet because the whole thing is so awkward and horrifying.

So the children are running behind me like ducklings. There's all of these famous sports people, I don't know who the hell any of them are. And I need the pod squad to understand that when I start to dissociate in social situations, you would never know what's gonna to come out of my mouth. I don't know how to not be weird. Weird things happen. Okay. So this is why Abby's like, I'll stay with you. I'll answer the questions.

I'm getting better now at this. Yes. I'm staying in my body. So I am controlling the things that come out. You have a general awareness of what you're about to say. When you're not in your body, one can't know what's going to happen. One can't know. So we're getting ready to walk into the doors finally. I've made it past the horrific red situation, okay? The doors open and Michael Phelps is standing there.

I know this person. I have seen him on commercials. I remember, you know, Olympic swimmer, he had some issues with pot. Like I just felt close to this guy. He went through some stuff. He was just swimming his little heart out. Right. He talked about mental health a little bit. I really liked his, you know, situation. We see Michael Phelps. The kids are behind me. I look at Michael Phelps, he probably doesn't see me because I'm one third of him. Yeah, he's a tall dude. So I look up at him and I say the following.

He's just us in the doorway, we're just trying to make it faster there, I say, hello Michael Phelps. No. Abby walks up right at him saying, hello, Michael Phelps. What I need you to know, Pod Squad, is there was a real big silence after it. And the reason was, I said those words as if, like, I was a bounty hunter, and I had been searching for Michael Phelps for years and years. Like, you were twisting your mustache.

Yes. Hey, Michael Phelps. Cut ya. Michael Phelps for years and years. Like you were twisting your mustache or something. Yes. Hello, Michael Phelps. Hello, Michael Phelps. Gotcha. No one could think anything other than I had caught Michael Phelps

right at the end of it. Which is surprising since you were third his size. Yes. So Michael Phelps stares at me. I stare back. I look at Abby because she's come up behind me. With my eyes, I say to Abby, because she's come up behind me. With my eyes, I say to Abby, well, what do we do now? Just what I'm always saying.

And so Abby says to Michael Phelps, we're going to go ahead and sit down. And I think that's a great idea. So the whole family just leaves Michael Phelps, who's probably so relieved. He's not being taken in. I was going to the slammer. Exactly. So here's what happens next. We sit down. We are in the front effing row of the fancy room

where the espies are happening. Just picture whatever room. The theater. It's like a theater. It's a theater, right. Now here's what happens if you're in the front row. There I sit down and there is a camera which is transmitting our images on the television.

And the camera is two feet in front of my face. Just right there. Now I look at Abby like, what? She goes, just act normal, just be normal. I beg you. I beg you to tell me how to act normal. How does a normal person? So I just try to make my face normal, be normal, be normal.

And Abby goes, why are you doing? You say, doing what? She was making those faces. Stop making those faces. She's whispering it to me because the camera's right in her face. She's afraid she's mic'd. Right.

So I try to stop making the faces. The chair next to us, the show is about to start. And the chair next to us is open. is about to start, and the chair next to us is open. And I'm thinking, I know something, and that is that Michelle Obama is gonna be at this espies. I think if I'm Michelle Obama's people, I don't sit her down until the very end. Yeah, it's a very common place for the highest profile folks.

They don't even really walk the red carpet. They just come in late to the party and they have these seat savers. So usually a seat's empty and a random actor will come and sit to make it look like the whole theater's full. And then that person comes in later. So I'm thinking that's why the camera's here. That's why the seat is empty. I am about to sit next to Michelle Obama. You might think this is good news. For me, this is just, it's just just, you're gonna say hello, Michelle Obama.

Michelle Obama. I'm like, what does one say? Is Michelle Obama gonna have to go through the thing where she pretends she knows who I am? Are we gonna do it again? I don't know. So I'm mentally preparing for this. This person walks out and puts a plastic,

a plastic sheet all over this chair. Now this is long before COVID. So I'm thinking, wow. Okay, if Michelle Obama doesn't like germs, I agree. National treasure, protect Michelle Obama. Do you need me to wear a hazmat suit? Well done. Okay?

So the sheet is down. The kids are in the room behind us, by the way. The show starts, the music starts. And the next thing I know, I look over starts, the music starts. And the next thing I know, I look over and a large person who's like seven feet tall in a tux, in a tux is carrying towards me a humongous duck.

Okay. Was it a goose? Well, I think it's duck. Oh, I think it was a goose. Yeah, it was a goose. You guys, the important thing is not whether it's a duck or a goose. The important thing is that a huge winged animal was coming towards me in the front row, okay?

I look at Abby. Abby just keeps looking straight because she is not gonna entertain my faces anymore. We're just gonna get through this duck moment. I'm ignoring the fact that there is an animal, not a human, sitting next to my wife. Yeah. So the next thing I know, this man puts, okay, for sure it was a goose

because it took up the whole chair and ducks are small, right? So huge man is walking towards me with a large white goose. Okay, what would I tell you a goose, pod squad, like, you know geese when you see them and it's scary and they're far from you at a pond and so you stay away from geese when you see them and it's scary and they're far from you at a pond. And so you stay away from geese because you never know what they'll do. The goose is coming towards me, at me.

Well, I'm supposed to be acting normal with the camera in my face. I look at Abby, she will not make eye contact with me. She just keeps saying act normal. She was act normal, act normal. I'm like, how does one act? What is normal? And a goose is about to say next to you.

And I wanted to switch seats with you, but in those moments. I'm like, how does one act? What is normal? And a goose is about to say next to you. And I wanted to switch seats with you, but in those moments, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, like what if they pan to me and I'm in Glen and C and then they pan to Glen and then they put Abby Wambach under it. Like you can't switch seats. Like you're in an assigned seat. So I'm just frozen.

Whatever's the opposite of Michelle Obama is next to me now. A goose is sitting in the seat next to me. The geese's feathers is touching me. It was like the chair situation earlier. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The goose was in my business.

Okay. And the cameras on me and the goose, the kids, I can hear them dying laughing from behind. Of all situations. Cause Anna's like 11, Tisha's 13, she's just like 15 or something, 16. And they know that I am done, but you guys, I just want you to picture,

the goose is watching the show. The goose, is the goose attentive? The goose is attentive? The goose, I keep looking, I keep sight eyeing the goose and the goose is just straight ahead. All attention on the stage. The goose is fully embodied. The goose was embodied. Damn it, I thought I'd sit next to Michelle. Exactly. The goose is like, who's this seat filler I'm next to?

I don't know what looks weirder to try to appear like I'm surprised there's a goose sitting next to me or to not appear surprised. Right. Sitting next to me. Oh, it's a duck. It was a duck. Damn it. Okay, well, it was a huge duck.

Turns out this was the Aflac duck. Well, yeah, so I think it was an Aflac skit. It was a skit. But I do think that it was a goose. I think it was an aphelac skit. It was a skit. But I do think that it was a goose. I think it was an actual goose. Well, do you know what I did say to the goose? Hello, goose. That was my favorite part of the night.

Hello, goose. So it was like a promotional aphelac thing to have the duck duck goose there. They were working it into as like a funny comedic skit of the espouse. Oh my God. I hope that duck goose gets paid. Well, do you remember what the goose did five minutes in? I do remember.

What did the goose do? The goose. Use the plastic? The goose took a poop. Yeah. So act normal. You're in the first seat of an award ceremony, a goose that is touching you. Just shit.

You're in your, your Sunday best. And I was pissed because Chase was behind me wearing my nice sneakers. And the shit got on the sneakers. And I was pissed. I was like, this is not worth the funny. And then do you remember what happens? And then I'll end, don't worry, I'll end the story. Michelle Obama walks on stage.

So I am trying to look dignified. I am trying to pay attention to this treasure of a human being. And I, there's a goose with me, you know? A duck. A duck, what the fuck ever. I remember that picture. We're gonna have to post that picture. Yeah, that was good. I think it was wearing a bow tie too.

It was for sure wearing a bow tie. Yeah, the duck and its handler were dressed the same. They were. What if you're listening? Hello, Michael Phelps. With Rakuten, you can! You can earn cash back on just about anything you buy from over 750 stores. If you've ever bought electronics, home decor, fashion and beauty, or booked a trip, well, you could have got cash back. But don't worry, it's not too late. It's free and easy to use, and you get cash back deposited into your PayPal account or sent to you as a check. Earn cash back at stores like Sephora, Old Navy,

and Expedia. It's the smartest way to shop, plain and simple. Start your shopping at rackatin.ca or get the Rackatin app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N.ca. I think we were talking about feeling left out. Yeah. Okay. Do we want to go to some pad squatter Q&A's? I think we should. Let's do it. Let's hear from Lisa. Lisa. Hi, Glen and Abby and sister. I love you all. My name is Lisa. I'm coming today because I just listened to the podcast about being left out. And of course, I've

experienced it. Watched my daughter experience it. I just recently experienced it when I was driving near my neighbor's house and saw all of their children playing out in the yard and Had to really calm myself down knowing that all the moms were inside Visiting and I I wasn't invited. That was okay, but I still feel myself Thinking about it four days later So what I really wanted to talk about was a time when my friend group excluded someone who just really didn't fit in with us. She was a lovely person, but didn't have the same sense of humor as us, didn't participate in our conversation, but we hung out with her for about six months trying to include

her in things and she would come and just kind of sit there and kind of be a bump on the log and then we just kind of sit there and kind of be a bump on the log and Then we just kind of stopped including her. This was like 10 years ago. I still feel awful about it. But we just kind of decided that it was best for our friend group to do it. And I'm wondering was Ivy deal with it when you're the person leaving someone out. Abby, don't kick my ass. I love you guys all. Bye. I relate to the four days later thing. Isn't that just so interesting?

It's just intellectually you can know that's reasonable. People do things separately, but it's still just feels gross. Yeah. Cause you just wonder what's wrong with me. Is that it? What's wrong with me? Why do they not want me around? This is why I am so nervous about Alice not having a sister is like, if you don't have an automatic number one, where someone who's always gonna pick you first,

then you're somewhere on a list. And lists have boundaries and cutoffs. And so I think that's the fear. If they like you and you're in, they like you fifth, you're sixth on the list, where it just feels like a very precarious situation because you can understand that situation. Then maybe they're just trying to have a little

get together or something. But it just makes real obvious that there is an order and you rank lower or something. Do you think that there is a different form of this? And this could be not right, but I'm thinking back to a time long ago when I was with a group of people who I liked very much and who were compassionate and kind to each other and good listeners. And there was one person at the gathering who was constantly bringing all the attention back to themselves. We couldn't get anywhere.

We couldn't, every time someone would make a vulnerable thing, it couldn't go anywhere because this person would grab it all back, grab it all back, grab it all back. To the point where it was kind of unbelievable and was blocking all of the connection that we were trying to make with each other. It was actually a blocker. So I, at the end of that said to the group, I can not do that again. The other person wasn't there anymore. And I said, just, I cannot do that again.

It's such precious time and I want to get to know all of you. And I would love to spend more time together, but I can't if that person's going to be there. And that was like really a weird, hard thing to do. And I have no idea if it was the right or wrong thing to do. But I also knew I wasn't going to do that again. Like I was not going to put myself through that waste of time, just like too old for it. I was talking to one of my wisest friends about that situation because I think about it all the time.

Like what was the right thing to do there? And she said, why didn't you say anything the whole time? While the person was there and when it happened, like, whoa, wait, hold on, I was just trying to hear what they were saying or something like that. It happened 30 times. There was no time. There was no time when anyone was telling a story, when anyone was doing anything where this person didn't hijack the thing, bring it all back to themselves. And at no time, everyone did different things. Sometimes somebody would stand up and leave the table.

Sometimes somebody would like just look agitated, but at no time did anyone in the group, including me say, hey, I just, I'm noticing that every time somebody starts to talk, like is there, what's going on? Or taking personal responsibility. I feel uncomfortable because I'm a sensitive person and it feels to me like our friends aren't able

to share themselves because you keep, like at no time did I say anything in the moment was I embodied about it. And so I do wonder if there's some element of that to this because we are making decisions about people in groups without asking them why they're being, how they're being or giving anyone a chance to make real connection or reveal themselves because we're not saying anything

in the moment, like I'm thinking about Lisa here and like how that person was a bump on the log. What if somebody had said to her on the side, what's going on? I feel like you're, I'm feeling paranoid because I feel like you're being quiet. And I don't know if you're feeling left out. Are there things we could do in the moment without making sweeping decisions about each other and then cutting people off later. Because sometimes people being quiet is just really intense, social anxiety, shyness. And I don't think it's everyone's job to figure out, but I think about that all the time.

Is there a more embodied social way of being that in the moment when someone's making us feel uncomfortable, we own it, We say, I'm feeling uncomfortable. Can you tell me more about this way of being? God, it's so uncomfortable though. I've done that exact same thing before in a group where it's like just kind of observed, get really annoyed and after be like, well, if we're all gonna get together, I would love to do it with you, but not in that group

because it's not valuable time for me. Right. But it feels, first of all, it's just deeply uncomfortable to say that. But second, doesn't it feel like you are substituting your judgment for theirs? And who's to say that your judgment reflects the rest of the groups?

Theoretically, you're the only one bothered by that. So you would have to do it from a really personal place. Like, oh, wait, could you hold on one second? I really want to hear what Amy has to say. I feel like Amy was just getting somewhere with that story. Can we hear that? I think you'd have to make it about what you want instead of you are not doing this right,

because maybe you're the only one that feels that way. Yeah, and also everybody's definition of social norms is different. We're all raised in different families. We all have different ways about it. So is there a way to preemptively sort this stuff out? Cause this was like the story Glenn is talking about. This was like a first experience hanging out

with these women ever. And so we were just getting to know each other. And so yes, I see your point that you could have said something and I was also feeling the same ways that you were feeling. Everybody was. And it's also just got to be okay that some people aren't going to be your people. They're not going to be the ones that stand the test of time. And these social interactions are

the information that we know who we want to kind of carry with us into our future or not. I know. I just love the idea of, I don't have any answers about it. I just do love the idea of, I love the idea of, I don't have any answers about it. I just do love the idea of that's my goal. I want to be embodied enough in moments, not to be silently stewing about something and then making a sweeping decision later. Like to me, that's more arrogant or like, I don't know, that's not right.

Well, and it's also operating on based on not the information. Exactly. Sometimes you get the most information when you enter into it and say, this is what I'm seeing. Tell me what's happening for you, even in your relationship. You could be like, you did this thing. I can't tolerate it. So I've unilaterally decided we're breaking up.

Or you can go and be like, you did this thing and here's what it did for me, like, what the fuck? Why'd you do that? And you might find out whole new things. Yeah, and I think it gets that to me. The reason why this has to do with being left out is I'm thinking a lot right now about the words left out. That person probably feels very left out

because there was no explanation. Because had I said something in the moment, is left-outedness what happens when there's no explanation? You're just kind of ghosted in a way because people have made a sweeping decision about you for this reason or that and you have not been let in on it. So had I said something, maybe it would have been awkward.

But the thing is it wasn't about her. It was about me and her together. It was like I am too sensitive of a human being to not feel so upset this whole time because I feel worried about everybody. And that isn't necessarily that other person's problem. I would be taking responsibility. And maybe it would be awkward and maybe we would be awkward

and maybe we would never speak to each other again, but I don't think they'd feel left out. I think they'd feel like there's a chemical reaction between Glennon and me that in order for us to make a decision going forward, we're not gonna spend time together anymore. But that would be different than left out. Yeah.

Because it gives that person an opportunity also to assess and maybe become self-reflective. Or maybe it would give them the opportunity to say, I have so much social anxiety and a way that it comes out is I just talk too much and I'm so sorry and I give you permission to let me know that I'm being too much and I'm so sorry. Like that's where, that's actually where the closeness would come.

Exactly, that's intimacy. Or she could say, listen, Snowflake, this is how I am. You want rules around communication? That's not the way I do it. Cool. But at least in that shared vulnerability and embodiment, we were clarifying that the social together doesn't work. There's not just some left out without explanation.

But it does take vulnerability because it's a lot easier to go out after to the people. Even that was vulnerable though because I wouldn't even know that. Yes, it was. I would have just gone home and been like, well, I'll just have to dodge those invitations for the rest of my life. So you were vulnerable telling the rest of the group, I wouldn't have done either,

because you're showing something that could get back to that person or that reveals something about you. But it would be more productive to do it in a moment. Yeah, and I said it, I'm too sensitive for this. That is true. Yeah. But I didn't say that person is blah, blah, blah. I just said, this is about me and I won't spend my time like this anymore. Cause I would really love to get to know you guys better.

And that's what social time for me is. And that none of that happened. And it feels like maybe that could be something that you could put into practice going forward that when we do get in certain groups situations that you preemptively have that conversation with the group that says something like, I'm like super sensitive. There's gonna be times where I might just like get up from the table and walk away

because I need to go regulate myself because sometimes the conversation isn't flowing or going in a way that feels safe to me and it's not about you, it's about me. Because I do think that there's a sense of responsibility that you do take, but if you were to take it publicly, then that would offer people a bigger understanding of who you are and how best you want to be communicated and dealt with in a communal situation. It does make me think about like how we just walk into social situations and we don't have

any expectations. Yeah. It's like we don't know how it's supposed to go and then nobody knows how to act. I mean, that's why people love recovery meetings. Yeah. It's because everybody knows the rules. Yeah. You know that you're going to share and no one's going to interrupt you and no one's going

to. And people will stick up for you if somebody starts to talk over you, other people will say, no, we don't do that. And I think that there needs to be a shared understanding, like a baseline of this is how we operate. But don't you think that you evolve to that with friends that you find in your developed relationships? It starts with a like, huh, you see them,

you see how they act, you see how they speak, you see how they connect with people and you're like, I would like to explore that more. So you're immediately weeding out and weeding in always. And then you don't develop that kind of communal culture of how you behave until you have spent so much time and you become a little ecosystem, you become a unit. But I think it would be rather awkward or forced to be like, I'm looking for a group of five friends. Here's the parameters and the way we communicate. For sure.

I mean, I think with our friend, Elisa here, her friend group really tried. It didn't gel. It didn't have chemistry. Just because you go out on one date with someone doesn't mean it's like proof beyond a shadow of a doubt before you deny a second date. There is some, yes, you could check with the person and not just assume you understand why they're acting that way.

If you really want to further invest in them. But I feel like that happens all the time. You try to get to know someone, you think it's a fit and it's not, just like dating. And you have to be able to move on from that. For sure. I think there's something important to the like, I can't say anything,

because it's just like their way of being, how do you know what's right? How do you know what's right? Maybe they're right and I'm wrong. And I just really feel like that in itself, we need to get away from because that's something I'm working on so much in therapy right now. Like, well, I shouldn't feel this way.

How should someone feel? Like how should, am I there? I was like, okay, well, we could figure that out. But no matter what we decide, you still feel that way. No matter how many shoulds or rights or wrongs, this is you and you feel this way. So what are we gonna do? It isn't about is this person right or I'm right,

or do I have a right to say something because who am I to say something? It's like, that's what a social situation is. It's a bunch of somebodies who are creating a chemical reaction between each other and some are gonna work and some are not gonna work. But I do, when I think about my teacher self, I think it would have been cool.

I understand if there's somebody in the class who's being a bully or a dick or something, I don't know, to another kid. And that kid's mom's like, I don't want my kid to have to invite that kid to their birthday party. I get that. My teacher heart would want to apply this to that.

And instead of just saying to that kid or that mom, you're not invited, I would love to have a talk with the mom and be like, here's why he's not invited. It's because he's doing this and this and this and it's hurting her feelings. And we're trying to teach her that she gets to have people who treat her well in her circle. But it's not that you're being left out.

It's that you're being deliberately disinvited because your behavior is hurting that person, there's like a starting place. It's so true because left out connotes a kind of passivity and incidentality and it's through neglect that that happened as opposed through like very conscious curating that that happened. And that's a very different beast, but also practically speaking, unless you have a teacher who's going to do that intervention,

I don't feel any obligation or sense of responsibility to go to the people. No, I know. Especially if they have been reacting negatively in a bullying way to my kids and explained to those people who inherently I see as not worthy of my trust, why they're not invited to my kids party.

Yeah, that's why I'm like, it's a teacher perspective. Yeah, as a teacher, I would like to know that. So I could explain, because that is the role of the leader of, you know what I'm saying. I also think for Lisa's sake, first of all, no, I don't want to kick your ass. I think that you're wonderful. And this is stuff that all of us are dealing with.

I mean, talk about those of us who are sober. We've had a lot of people in our rearview mirror because they aren't really good for me. It doesn't mean I don't love or care for some of the friends that I've had in my life. It just means that those relationships were not the relationships I wanted to keep in my present. A, and then B, I also think you not including this woman, you know, 10 years ago, there's no such thing

as one way liberation. Maybe she hated being around you guys too. So true. Like who knows? It's so true. Maybe she's like, oh my God, these ladies just talk and talk. Yeah, like we don't know how to break up with them. And maybe she's sitting with a group of her friends

that are more like her, that are more true for her, that are more her speed. I do believe that we're all trying to do our best. And these are the kind of things that I think you can forgive yourself over. You can let this one go. It's been 10 years, baby. But I love that you're not yet, Lisa, I'm with you.

I'm never letting go. Okay, I wanna read an email to all of you that we got from a pod squatter. And it was in response to episode 277 when we were talking about Girls Just Wanna with Brandy Carlisle. Here it is, hey, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda. I just listened to the most recent episode

about Brandy's Girls Just Wanna Weekend. Needless to say, this event is definitely on my bucket list right next to my Dream Ladies brunch, which of course includes the three of you, along with Brandy, and a few other fabulous women. There was a comment in this episode that made me pause. Abby mentioned the, quote, straight families that were there,

moms, dads and their children. And I just wanted to acknowledge the possibility that these families may have included bisexual people. We by sometimes feel like we straddle two worlds, unable to feel a true sense of belonging in hetero and gay spheres. And, oh, you keep reading. Why is that making me so emotional?

Oh, that's so sweet. Just go ahead, keep going. True sense of belonging. Unable to feel true sense of belonging in hetero and gay spheres and by erasure is real. Just some friendly food for thought. Love you all and your podcast means so much to me. Peace, love and all good things.

Angie from Minneapolis. Wow, Angie. Yes. Thank you for bringing this to my attention because my love, and all good things, Angie from Minneapolis. Wow, Angie. Thank you for bringing this to my attention because my goodness, you're right. So right. And like, you know, it makes me think of when we were talking to Alison Russell, when we were having that conversation with Alison Russell, and Alison is bisexual and married to a man. And we were laughing because Alison, I said, do you ever just want to like walk around going, but I'm queer too. I'm queer too. And we were laughing because Allison, I said, do you ever just want to like walk around going, but I'm queer too, I'm queer too. And she held up her arm. She was wearing rainbow like headband, rainbow wristbands. It's part of her identity that is invisible.

But she is such a part of the queer community, but can't be signaling that all the time. And feels left out, yes, Angie. Yes, totally. And I just wanna just say, I love you. Wow, Angie, thank you for that. That helped my brain. That helped my brain a lot. I know it makes you think for all the people

we're worried about that we know we're quote unquote leaving out. Think of all the people that were just inadvertently leaving out. like in just everyday language. And it's really something to think about. And invisible identity is a whole thing. We should talk about that more, that's so- Well, I mean, I'm thinking about it now,

and it's so profound to think about being a bisexual woman who's ended up marrying a man and has had a family and has a longing for this other thing and that they get to experience it at Girls Just Want a Weekend and that they have such a loving partner that they want to be able to provide that experience of that feminine energy, that feminine kind of love that they're longing for. That is like truly a beautiful, beautiful thing. Thanks Angie. OK, we have a very special pod squatter to end with.

Pod squatter of the week named Grace. Hi, Abby, Glen and Amanda. I just wanted to say I'm Grace. I'm 10 years old. I'm in fifth grade and I'm a girl. And I had some girl drama in the past year and this year. And it's been really hard for me because I felt really alone. And this podcast has really, really helped make me feel like I have more than just people

that I can believe in myself without needing anyone else's approval. And I really love listening to you guys. And my mom let me listen to that episode about sharding which is really good because I like that one because my family's big fart is. Bye. Why did that make you cry so much babe? Because I love 10 year old girls so much.

Tell me more. Can someone else talk? Yeah. I feel like I can believe in myself without needing anyone else's approval. That is really something. That is very, very cool, Grace. You are very cool, Grace, and you have figured that out in the fifth grade.

And I figured that out. From Grace, just now. From Grace at 44. So I love that. I love that you have a mama who's talking to you about these things. I love that you have a family of farters because the family that farts together stays together.

I really feel good about what you're gonna do, Grace, and who you are. And I love that you're not alone. And I love knowing that we're not alone and we have you, Grace. Can I tell you something, Grace? It's not too often that a listener has such a massive impact on my wife here. And I think because you're 10, it's really special for Glennon because she's

able to reparent her little 10 year old self and you just gave her a big gift just now. And I just want to tell you that into all the pod squatters, you know, this isn't just a one way street here. Like we're learning so much about ourselves from all of these emails and voicemails and the pod squatters of the week and little Gracie. This isn't just like a podcast that we put out so that we can help people like you.

This is also a podcast that we put out because we know that people like you help us. So we love you so much. Love you Grace. We can do hard things. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe

to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for

the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend. We would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Keynz 13 Studios.