We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - LET HER REST: We respond to the Pod Squad’s mind-blowing questions.

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

1. The one question to ask ourselves if we want to know if our love is really reaching our people. 2. How Glennon’s dearest friend Liz Gilbert taught her that a relaxed woman is the new revolution. 3. Abby offers tips for bonus parents—and why she says earning her kids’ love has been the most rewarding part in her entire life. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. And because I'm mine, I walk the line. Well, hi everybody. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. We have a special episode for you all today.

I don't imagine that maybe there's ever been a situation where a podcast has more ridiculously amazing voicemails from the Pod Squad community. If you all could listen to these questions, we have flooding, our inbox every week, and stories. It's so hilarious, heartbreaking, it's everything. And so we decided this week, we are going to dedicate to entire episodes to your questions. Yeah, it's so thrilling to us because we feel like we're just going to be hanging out with you all this whole time.

And so, you know, a few reminders. The tricky part of Q&A is that we don't have any A's. Okay. It is my deep belief that the reason why people ask me for advice so often is because I never give them any. There's this idea that someone else will have the answers, but really we're each living this completely unprecedented, unrepeatable experiment of a life. Nobody's done it before us. Nobody will ever do it after us. Each of us is winging it completely. And so the only one who ever really has the answer is obviously us, right? So anyway, we have your cues and then we have some responses. And mostly they're like, yeah, good call. That's correct. Yeah.

And mostly they're like, yeah, good call. That's correct. Yeah. Mostly our responses are same. Yes, retweet. Correct. So we're excited to jump in. Let us, you ready, Amanda and Abby, for these beautiful keys? Let's do it.

OK, let's hear our first one. Jody. Hi, J and see our first one. Jody. Hi, J and sister. My name is Jody. I'm 53 years old. Over a year ago, I ended a very toxic 18-year marriage to an addict. It was my second marriage, and this person was a step-parent to my two older children, and we also have two children together.

I've been working hard at healing my relationships with my older children who despise this person and also helping my younger children establish all the good boundaries necessary when you have an addicted parent. All of that is hard, but definitely the right kind of hard. The hard thing I'm bringing you today is this. I have been in survival mode for so long that I barely know who I am or what I want this next stage of my life to look like. So even though there is tremendous relief with breaking that cycle and saying not this, I sort of feel numb. Like maybe this goddamn cheetah doesn't have a wild.

Like if I was tapata and they opened the cage, I would just walk out in my next trip because it's all I know and I'm really tired. How do I start thriving and living a joyful life that my kids will be proud of and want to emulate instead of just surviving day by day? Okay, that's it. That's my hard thing. Love you both and Abby too. Oh, Jody. I want to be just anyone else want to be best friends with Jody. I'm Jody Jody. Fully obsessed with Jody. Jody wants to know how to be a goddamn cheetah. Okay. But she's tired, right?

It's Jody saying she's tired because she's been through the fire several times, carried her children on her back out of the fire, probably more than once, and now she's tired. You know what I started thinking about when I was listening to Jody is something that one of my dearest friends in the whole world, Liz Gilbert Gilbert said to me recently, and she was talking about how women are always called to be fierce and tough and brave and cheetah-like and like, that's the revolution. And she was like, you know what, I think the revolution is? I think it's a rested woman. Where are they? Like, where are the relaxed rested women? That's the revolution to me. And I was thinking about this, the first memory I have of my entire life. Okay, I don't have a lot of

early memories, but I, but I know that this has to be significant because it's the one thing I can remember from being little. I remember being in kindergarten. I remember my teacher, her name was Mrs. Peacock. I said, Peacock. Mrs. Peacock, remember? And I was in my kindergarten classroom and I had crawled underneath a table

and closed my eyes and tried to fall asleep in the middle of class. Okay. And a bunch of kids circled the table and were like poking at me because it's ridiculous, right? To try to take a nap in the middle of the class and Mrs. Peacock walked over and I heard her feet and I thought she was going to pull me out. And she said, she didn't say anything to me. She said to the other kids, leave her alone. Let her rest. And those words let her rest. I'm just telling you that it is seer. It was like to this day, it's the most

beautiful thing anyone can say to me. Like, when I go to bed, Abby in the middle of the day, and I hear you say to the kids, quiet, let her rest. Okay, so, Jody, what I wanna say to you, hold on a second, I need to Google something real quick, Jody. Oh, okay, Jody. Here we go. How many hours a day does it cheat asleep? At least 12, it says. At least 12. Cheetahs spend most of their time

sleeping. During the day, they are minimally active. They prefer shady spots. Look, Jody, if you want to know how you can be a god damn Jita, at this point in your life, after you have done so many hard things for your children, for yourself, Jody, rest. That's what Jita would do right now. Jody, rest. That's what a Gido would do right now. I think we're forgetting, we just have to get to the point where she's outside of this cage. And if you find your way outside of any freaking cage, you get to do whatever the hell you want. If that is to sit down right next to the cage and use it to hold your back up because your back's tired, do that. That's right. If it is to go on a run, whatever it

is, as long as you are, like you've done the work, you get to do whatever it is that you want, Jody. You have just gotten yourself free. That's right. Rest Jody, rest you said you're tired, your body is telling you exactly what a cheeto would do. We are animals, your body is saying, now I fought the fight and now it's time to rest. Lay down next to that cage,

let your children see a woman rest. That could be the revolution. I also think that it's, if it's rest, it's rest, but I think it's also like what Jody is describing is trauma. She has endured a chronic level stress trauma. And when you do that, like your nervous system has these two parts, right? There's the one that's like the fire flight. It's a sympathetic nervous system, and that is the one that's activated during, you know, places of danger. It sounds like

Jody has traveled a lot of that. And then your sympathetic nervous system is the one that kicks in and allows you to actually rest and to recharge yourself. And, but for a lot of folks and this could be what's happening to Jody as to why she feels so exhausted is that you're when you've lived so long with that chronic level of trauma or stress, your nervous system can't continue to respond. So you either get stuck in the totally on position, where your body doesn't know the difference between a perceived threat and an actual threat. So you're constantly in hyper-arousal like you're up on, on, on, on, or you're in the off position, meaning that you are like fatigued I just constantly idle, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, alert, and other people respond other ways. So I think that it's also good for folks like Jody to understand that this isn't a character

trait necessarily. This isn't like, it could be your body responding very, very appropriately and taking care of itself in a way that allowed you to survive the years of what you've survived and that maybe paying attention to that and learning how your nervous system can cope with the next part of your life that you've created to be not have the danger you had in the first part, is an interesting thing to explore because sometimes our bodies are stuck, the inside of our bodies are stuck where our physical bodies are no longer. And so learning about that sympathetic nervous system would be interesting for Jody.

Really smart. Damn, I love that. I wanna learn about it now, Jesus. Yeah, that's good. Jody, we love you. And don't forget, we all wanna be badasses for our kids. Like the best memories I have of childhood are just sitting on a couch and snuggling with my parents.

childhood are just sitting on a couch and snuggling with my parents. Like the things that we think we need to do to impress them, I don't know, I just think sometimes doing nothing and just breathing with your family is the most beautiful thing that we can do. So, Jody, give yourself a long break. Let her rest and when she awakes, she will move mountains. Isn't that a Pinterest thing? Yeah, I see that. That's for Jody. That's for Jody. Or let her rest and when she wakes, she might... That's better I like that one. That's the poster I want.

All right. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, Girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them.

She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's go to our next queue. This is Madison, I would like to say,

Hi, Glenin and sister. My question is sort of for Abby and I'm hoping that maybe she can come back on and help me work through this one a little bit. I am currently in a relationship, a long term relationship, where my partner has children and I'm struggling to sort of find what my role in this situation is. We've been together for over a year, and we do lots of things together, but I find myself kind of always feeling like the thing that doesn't belong or like the awkward buddy of the group and especially with his son. I really have a desire to be a more supportive and like emotionally involved figure in his life

that I'm not sure how to start to make that transition and help that relationship grow. So if Abby or Flanagan has any insight into how to start to open up that world and forge that path, I would love to hear it. Thank you so much. Matt is in. Wow.

Well, I've got a couple of thoughts on this. First of all, sweet question. And the fact that you're asking this question makes me know that there's some real possibility here. I believe that we use the word bonus parent, but most of the world uses the word stepparent phrase. It's the one of the most selfless acts of love when you find yourself in a step parenting role

because there are all of these confusing dynamics at play. How old were the children were when you came into the family? How was that marriage before you came into the family? How was the divorce? There's so many things that differentiate each situation that my experience is going to be different than yours, of course. But one thing that I know really did help me was having a partner in Glenin who was and is capable of wanting to have the conversations around what my desires are and what her desires are.

So here Glennon was with three children and Craig, by the way, having the co-parenting trio that we have makes things in so many ways, so beautiful and so much easier for the person like me stepping in. But Glenin had been raising these children and Craig had been raising these children in many ways, I think, in hindsight, to accept somebody like me on some level, on some deep, deep level. And let me tell you, it wasn't easy. Like when I first got to the family, Tish and Chase and Emma, they were, they were, of course, sad about their family being

now different, about this new person walking in the door. But I had to look at it from their perspective. Like if you really want to have a relationship with this, this son, this son of your, of your partners, you do kind of have to take some of the arrows or some of the frustration or fear or anger on some level. Imagine being these children and imagine their life being flipped upside down and then and then go about

trying to heal it like be capable and present enough to understand that if you do want what's best for these kids. It is a balancing act like of how much do I put myself out there and like quite frankly step parenting you're always putting yourself out there. And you're never going to get like, I mean, you might never ever get the credit, you know? Like I have had to come to accept that like our kids will probably never call me mom. They call me Abby. But like when they're out in the world with their friends, I actually just heard recently that they do call me mom to like to out their world. And I just like, I about

died. I about fell over what I heard this news. And so Madison, I know this is a long and not helpful answer probably on any level. But Glenin really did help me. I would say talk to your partner and tell them about your dreams for the way that you want to interact with their child, with this child and how, what kind of relationship do you want so that you can be both in it together, that you're not feeling like, you know, because part of the responsibility of this partner is to make sure that the path that they are allowing you to walk isn't riddled with fires along the way. You know, like that you that you have a clear pathway to be able to and it's then up to

you, right? So have the conversation with your partner and then figure out what this child loves and help create environments that this little kid can go out and express this love. And then the more you get to see this kid, experience the joy of life. They will start turning back to you. They will start looking to you to make sure that you're watching. That's good, Abby. It's really good. That's all I got. That's enough.

That's all I got to say. That's all I got to say. But also, I'll just say this, there is nothing more rewarding in my life, nothing that I have ever been able to accomplish in my life than being able to know that my children love me. Like there's also like you being the biological parent and Craig being the biological parent, there is a level of openness to both of you

that has allowed me to come into this situation. So I think that you allowing me to feel like I have an entitlement to this mother claim, like that is a big part of why I've been able to actually feel like these children's mother on some level. That's why I think it's so brilliant that you mentioned to Madison that one of the most important things to just talk this to death with your partner because the two partners set the stage for the bonus parent success or failure. It's aligning those intentions, for the biological parent letting go of some of that gatekeeping for the biological parent letting go of some of that gatekeeping of like. But I don't know, there's like something, it's a process for us too, to say energetically allow permission in each to change dynamics,

to change patterns, all that stuff necessarily happens when you really and truly fully let another grown-up human being into your family dynamic and if you're holding if the or the OG parent is holding too tight to old patterns to old dynamics Which is understandable when when families change you told on to something that creates Kind of sets the stage for failure for the new person. So I think it's just, I love the opening the conversation constantly and being super honest with the other partner and being in it together because I think sometimes it's set up as, oh, how do I, I, the bonus parent, fix this relationship with the child and that's too much for the bonus parent.

That's not, it's directionally incorrect. Like, this is the struggle, the work should be with two adults setting up the stage for success for the kid. That's right. So good. All right. My name is Katie. I would like to ask how after being in a relationship with infidelity and moving on to being with Abby, how do you trust? How do you trust that she is going to hold your heart safely? Even when she says all of the right things and does all the right action, how do you know? And that's my question. I love you guys. Thanks. Bye. I can't wait to hear this answer. How do you know, Glenin?

I love so much listening to these questions and then my brain, all it does, because I don't live in the real world. I live in the imaginary world. I just need you to know that every single one of these collars has an entire backstory in my brain immediately. The things I have created for Katie in the last 45 seconds about Katie's life. Okay. I want to say a couple things about this trust issue. I think that we were just

talking about this Abby this week. We weren't. We were just talking about trust and how most of my life, especially the second half of my life, is about trying to figure out how I can trust the universe a little bit more, like how I can just relax and stop being so anxious and suspicious and certain everyone's gonna screw me over constantly. And some of that came when I met you Abby and you live differently than that.

You generally feel like people are doing the best they can and that we can trust people and that things will work out, which is just a batshit crazy way to live, right? Right. Things don't work themselves out. I work them out. And if I don't work them out, they fall apart, right? So this is the general way I live,

which is why I'm sweating constantly. One thing I want wanna say to Katie, I just wanna directly answer a question about love, first of all, this is, and probably not have exactly what you wanna hear, but the truth of this matter is that I don't know much for sure. If I had to bet my life on whether like Abby was gonna betray me at some point or break

my chest or something, I would, at this point, bet my life that she wouldn't. Okay. That she would never betray me, that she would never break my trust. But Katie, I'm also gonna tell you that life has surprised the shit out of me many times, like there have been things before in my life that I would have met my life upon that in fact I would have lost the bet in the long run, okay?

So what I do know Katie is that I'm pretty sure that Abby's not going to betray my trust and I've never met anyone in my entire life that has earned my trust more than Abby. But that at the end of the day is not what I hang my hat on, okay? What I do know about my life and about you, Katie, since you actually were cognizant and alive and vertical enough to make this call is that no matter what has happened to me in my life and how many times I have been betrayed or how many times I have been gobsmacked by people or life, I survived. What I know about myself is that I have become a 45 year old woman who is no longer afraid

of fires in her life, because I have proven to myself over the past few decades that I am fireproof, that no matter what happens, I will survive. So my piece, Katie, and I hope your piece is not dependent upon what Abby does or does not do. My piece is fully dependent on my track record that at all I know that it can all fall apart and that I will, it won't be pretty, doesn't have to be, but I will remain standing. Hi, Glennon. I have followed you for many years, and I love your work, Glennon, and thank you for the contribution you're making to so many people.

I'm a parent and a sister to queer folk, and I loved and cried through your podcast episode, Queer Freedom. However, I have a contention with one small part of it. You said that you can't say you love someone and then make choices that show hate to them. I have a different opinion. I was in the event of alcohol church for many years, believing the party line that being gay is a sin. I have since left that church and now see the deep damage I caused. I hurt my gay family members with my conservative beliefs and choices, but I did still love them.

In your book, you said that your family did not feel loved by you when you were deep in your addiction. By the same logic one could say since you made hurtful choices towards your family that you didn't love them. But I know you did love them. It was just mucked up. So my question to you is, if you could still love and do harm when you were an addict, can't someone with misguided religious beliefs

love and do harm, please let me know your thoughts. So, there Lee, Helen, good luck with your podcast and thanks for all you do again. Helen, see, this is the problem with having super smart people in your community. Like this is constantly the problem is that they are asking very tough questions about things that you have may or may have not said. And with such grace. Like, I love, I'm in, like, such beauty and grace. I mean, I want to do a whole episode on ways

to that, that on criticism and questioning and ways to do it where that makes the other person want to engage and ways to do it. Anyway, Helen is a really beautiful example of offering dissent in a way that invites more ideas instead of shutting down. So I think that I guess I wanna hear every, there's gonna be a million, there's no answer

to this question, there's just ideas and responses. The question being, can you love someone and can you love a queer person but also judge them for their queerness, I guess, can we love and judge or love and reject at the same time? What I would say first is that we all have to decide for ourselves what the word love means, right? So if you mean, can I have warm feelings about someone and then also have a dogma that rejects their

their their identity? I guess like I can't tell you that you can't have both of those things at the same time, but that's not what love means to me. Love is something that's very specific. Love, there's no such I don, I don't do cheap love. Like, I don't believe that love is just a warm feeling that I have. So I can say, oh, I love her, but I just, you know, I disagree with her family and her being and her identity. And I think God's going to send her to hell. Like, no, no, no, no.

And I, to me, love has to do with a fierce celebration of what a person is. And so I'm sorry Helen, but I would stick with my, when you're saying, could I, I said I loved my family when I was an addict, but I was hurting them. I think the question would have been to ask my parents, do you feel loved by Glenon?

And I think that Helen, the question would be for you to ask your queer family when you were in the evangelical church, did they feel loved by you? You may have thought I'm loving them, but in the end, does that matter? Does our intention mean shit? If the impact is pain and rejection, but I loved my family when I was drunk and ruining their lives all the time. Like, so what? What does that mean? I had warm feelings for them while I was actively hurting them.

Love is as love does. Love is as love is received. Love is as love feels to, love is as love feels. To me, the question about whether we are loving should be asked, should be asked of the receiver, right? So I think that while I love you, Helen, deeply, I think the question is, the answer for me is a big no. I don't think that, you know,

I think about the definition of things a lot. I think we all just have to decide what love means to us and then we can answer that question for ourselves. You know, Abby and I had to spend a lot of time figuring out what a friend is because, you know, can we be friends? We had the situation where we had friends who we enjoyed being with, but we knew that those friends were also people who were actively voting and rallying against our family's

rights and well-being. And it was very confusing to us because we felt like the culture was suggesting to us that, well, you can be friends and disagree, but that felt bad to us. And so we decided, actually, no, that can be something else, but a friend to us. We don't believe in the word friend as anyone other than somebody who would stand with us when they're standing right in front of us, and somebody who would stand with us when we can't see them in a voting booth or whatever. So I just guess we all have to decide

what the word love and friend means to us and answer that question. And I think it might be, it's interesting because I think what Helen's trying to get to is like I felt a deep and real love for them. So what we're not saying to her is that that love wasn't real. Like what we're saying is that when there's a barrier between the deep real love you feel, your intention and your and deep real love being received as an impact, often there is a barrier there that is preventing it from being transmitted. Right. So in Glenin's

case, that was her addiction, that that was a wall that real love went in, but real love did not come through. And and that in the evangelical party line, you, Helen, might have been giving forth all of your love, right? But this evangelical barrier of a belief that that had to sift through was not allowing it to be received as a real true love on the other side. So I think that's another way to think of Intention versus Impact is, is there a barrier? Is there a boundary? Is there a wall between the love that I'm sending out that perverts that love,

that changes that love to make it not be received. Because it doesn't mean it was invalid on either side. It means there is something that you haven't done the work to deconstruct to allow your love to be received as real and true. And the only way to find that out too is to ask the people who you think you're loving, right? Because because as you said, sister, it can be very real for you when you're offering it. You're not a good judge of that. Like, I know for me, I don't want to just insist that I'm loving my children well. I want to know

from them. Is it, are you receiving it as the love that you need? That's all that matters. I love the idea of not thinking of love as something that we offer our way, and that's it. We're loving. Like, it's like, love is a verb. Love is, is personalized. Love is specific to people.

It's like, when you feed people, you don't feed everybody the exact same thing in the exact same way and expect everybody to be satisfied. People are different. And I just, I really like the idea of considering the success or the power of your love as judged by the beloved. Yeah. I mean, for I'm listening to this and I don't feel like I fit into either of those neat categories you've already discussed, but I'm immediately thinking of the way I love my kids and the barriers between the outrageously real love that I have for them and how it's received. If it's through the barrier of judgment or if it's through the barrier of expectations,

how is all of that energy that I'm pouring out that I believe is coming full throttle at love? How is it being received? You know? Yes. I think it's a brilliant way to think about it with kids. I mean, I was sitting, I have this one child who,

loving her just looks way different than loving anybody else in my life. And I was sitting on a couch the other day. What she really, I wanted to talk about all of these different things, what she really wanted to do was describe in minute by minute detail to me, the last horror movie she watched. Okay, she's like super, super indoor movies. And please understand, like, think about anything I'd rather, not, I hate everything about the situation. I'm in a hostage situation with a child who's I'm in a hostage situation with a child who is, but that is how she feels loved by me.

And what I wanted to say is, dear God, can we talk about your life? Can we talk about like what's going on really? Anything other than this. Literally anything other, I wanna pull the fire alarm. I get like, and then, and then, and then, and then. But that, I guarantee at the end of that she felt closer to me and I just don't get to choose. Let's move on to the next one. Hi, Glennon. Hi sister. Hi Abby. My name is Annie and I was calling because I just finished listening to your sex episode. I'm sorry, I'm emotional

right now. And I just wanted to sincerely thank sister for the honest conversations, especially about when your partner doesn't want to have sex with you. Just for some background, my husband had an affair about two years ago. And immediately after we had a lot of sex, and then about a year and a half ago, it abruptly stopped. A lot of it is related to some mental health struggles that he's been having and rationally I know that but it still really really hurts. So I just wanted to thank sister for bringing that up and it was so validating to hear that. And I just want people to know that they are not alone in it. So, thank you. Love you guys.

Looking forward to the next episode. Bye. And yay! So, yo, we, this is one of hundreds. Mm-hmm. Annie, thank you for leaving that message, and I just want to say to Annie that your message is one of hundreds of messages and emails that we received with a story very, very similar to yours and to mine. And I think that this is something

that given the response of people that A is happening so much, so frequently, and B, that people are not talking about. Can you give some context to this? Oh, yes. So what I was just want people to remember about that. So basically what I was saying in this X episode is we were talking a lot about how, you know, in heteronormative relationships. It's the conversations very often revolve around, oh my gosh, my husband always wants to have sex with me and how do I deal with it? And I never want to. And it's so, it's such a chore. And I know that struggle in my current marriage. So I want to say

that clearly. But I also know the opposite struggle in my prior marriage where I was not desired and basically just kind of deserted sexually. So I and that is something that that rarely if ever do people talk about it and more so than not talk about it, I feel like women are often discussing the opposite problem. And so you feel like a real outcast

and odd in your own relationship and then an outcast and odd in the social dynamics where people are discussing their sex problems. So I think that what we do know is that hundreds of people responded exactly like Annie. And we also know that, you know, statistically, 20% of couples are in sexless marriages. And we don't know, you know, who is kind of the one who is experiencing that as a bandiment in those relationships, but it is very, very frequent.

And so thank you, Annie, for bringing it up. And I just think that a lot more people are having this issue than are talking about this. And I yeah. And I... Yeah. And, Sissy, I just want to say thank you to you because what I want everybody listening to know is that we actually recorded that whole episode without that part. And Amanda listened to the whole thing and said, hold on.

I am listening to this thinking about all of the women for whom this is going to be a painful conversation because we haven't addressed this other part. And I need, I have experienced it, and for them, I need to get on and we need to record this new part. And I just love that so much. And I just, I'm grateful to you, sister, for working so hard to make sure that we're all seen. Is brave. I love you. I love you too. Beautiful. Okay, next please. Hi G, my name is Ellen and I work with young people and many of the youth I work with

are exploring their identity, sexuality, and gender expression. I recently spoke with someone who told me that these people should accept reality and stop joining others in trendy things like being non-binary or gender fluid. I believe that it is the youth who will help us expand our definitions of gender, sexuality, and self. I love your spiritual acceptance and was just wondering what your thoughts are on this topic and how we can go about changing the world instead of putting our youth in the boxes they may not fit in. Thanks so much. I love you, podcast.

Right. That's sister. What are we going to do with all these trendy non-binary so we're just jumping on the gender band. So trendy. Like, it's like a false eyelashes are like cool. That's so cool and easy to be gender non-binary. Yeah. Okay.

So this is so fun. You know, my idea of fun is things like this. So can't we jump on the train with me? Because it's true. Cheers. Let's go. Cheers. Okay, so this, okay, we talked a little bit

about this on the first episode on Tuesday, but I think we just need to talk about this because this idea of trendy suggests new and different than what always has been. And I think it's just really important, important contextually to understand that we literally lived in a pre-sexual orientation world for all time until about 160 years ago. So like trendy trendy sexual orientation. Not never.

So and we also think of heterosexuality as being and always like given normal default status and that queerness being somehow new or abnormal, but actually they were created as we talked about it. They vary the exact same moment. It was in the 1860s, it was a legal concept in an article protesting German-Saturday Meal Laws. So those were invented at the very same time. But because we had a very strong need to establish and defend normalcy at the time,

it was a very strong priority because it was the rise of the middle class. So all of our social institutions, government bureaucracy, police force, all of that. There was a new economic social dominance of middle class, which had a vested interest in defending this idea of normalcy in themselves. Okay. So in opposition to that power grew out of normalcy as being heterosexuality and that was left alone only to find this normal heterosexuality became this physiosocial disposition. So that became deviant abnormal broken. And then that homosexuality became a personhood and identity,

whereas heterosexuality was left alone normal. All of these, what was formally just something people did became something people are. So, and that all happened very, very quickly. Now, the labeling that everyone is viewing as trendy now arose out of queer people's response to this definition from outside of themselves. So they urged this new self definition, and now we have the articulation of all these sexual identities, which is at one point, like a very good thing, right?

Because people find community, describe their identity, find their people that they want to be in relationship with, all of that, it's very good thing, right? Because people find community, describe their identity, find their people that they want to be in relationship with, all of that, it's very good. But Ellen, I say, all the, you know, the folks that you're talking to, we have too many trendy definitions, the sexual orientation.

It just blows my mind because I'm like, how do we, how do we have damn near enough? We don't have enough. We have infinite, okay, infinite human possibilities of desire. That's right. As number of people that we have is the, is the amount of possibilities of desire that we have in the world. And at the highest, highest count, we have 21 orientations to organize, to organize all the people, all the people. And sister, can we talk about how ridiculous it is

in the first place to like make categories for people based on what they prefer? Like why do we choose sexuality? Why don't we just choose colors? Well, we do that too. We do that too. We're all the people that prefer purple. You stuck with that forever.

Where are all the people that prefer blue the most? You're stuck with that forever. Like, it's so strange. Well, it's not strange because the people who have the power to define what is normal and abnormal, get to use that. It's not arbitrary. It's not arbitrary. Like, you know, it's like arbitrage. It's strange, but not arbitrary. So, so in, but this is my question. It's like, if, so a recent UK poll found that fewer than half of 19 to 24-year-olds defined themselves as 100% heterosexual.

Okay, and that is not because they had, like, engaged in queerness. They hadn't physically acted upon that. But it was that they didn't need to cling to this idea of heterosexuality as their barometer of normalcy. It's like not only do those categories fail to fit who we are as individual people. And, you know, they inevitably require leaving some of ourselves at the door as we try to fit ourselves into these boxes. But it also feels like, have we not outlasted the need to reinforce normalcy? I feel like the way that I see this generation is not like getting on a trend. The way that I see this generation is pointing out the emperor has no clothes.

That's right. Like, the way that I see this generation is that they understand that we've made all this shit up. Yep. That if all of these categories are arbitrary and all of these identities and even gender is horseshit, right? It's just completely arbitrary and made up. It's their performances, mandatory performances

that somebody gives us. These kids, many of them are saying, we don't want to perform. We're not gonna perform the roles that you are giving us anymore. I think, first of all, we're just trying to get back, the new generation is just trying to get back to the 1860s before all of us adults fucked it all up.

They're some in fashion. And then what I would also say, Ellen, is those who are coming to you with some of this, oh, nine binary, it's just laziness. People don't want to change. People don't want to have to learn something new. People feel just like exhausted and like, we're not gonna let them be lazy.

We have an answer to the laziness. We can just get rid of all of them. It's like when James followed, they asked him, what do you think gay people will be like in the future? And he said, no one will have to answer that question because it answers a false agreement. Yes. It's the wrong question, right?

So let's just, hey, lazy people were with ya. This is so trendy, this past 160 years, we're just gonna get rid of it and let people be themselves. So you can't do hard things. It's hard to say, let's get the club. Yeah, we gotta wrap this up and we gotta go to the pod squadder. You hearted. You hearted. Let's get it. Let's get it. Yeah. All right. We got to wrap this up and we got to go to the pod squatter.

Woohoo. This is Mirta calling from the south, women, Amanda, and Abby. I love this podcast. If I had a boat, I would vote on having it on five counts a week. This country is in a mess. And that's because we've never talked about hard things. I go up in the 50s and 60s where nothing was discussed. The elephants were all over the room

and now those of us who are in our 60s and 70s are having to still figure out the things that happened to us that we weren't ever able to talk about. So don't let anybody sway you from your past. You just keep talking about hard things. I love you. I think you folks are hilarious. I'm a sporty spice and I just, I love everything that you'll talk about even though sometimes it is hard to hear. Take care. All right. Meredith, Meredith, calling from the South. Just wish that you could call Meredith. I want Meredith to call it. I want that pep talk every Meredith. You could do her. I think like leave a message for us every day. Please. Every day Meredith. No pressure.

Five times a week, Meredith, we want. Meredith, I just want to say thank you. Okay, to all of you, I mean, clearly mostly to Meredith, but also to all of you, we love you. Seriously, we could listen to your voice smells and your stories and your questions all day. And we will, we will listen to them forever and your stories and your questions all day. And we will listen to them forever. Thank you for listening to us.

We will keep listening to you. Together, we can do hard things. And we'll see you soon. I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. Brandy Carlyle. I got once mine and I continue to believe that I'm the one for me and because I mine I walk the line Cuz we're adventurers in heartbreak So now a final destination They've stopped asking directions Some places they've never been

And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do a heartache. I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new star. a brand new star. I'm not the problem sometimes things fall apart. The best people are free And it took some time But I'm finally fine

Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak So mad A final destination with that We stopped asking directions So places they've never been Come to be loved, we need to be known We'll finally find a way back home And through the joy and pain

That our lives bring We can do a hard thing Yeah This world finishes in hot waves on land We might get lost but we're only in that Stopped asking directions Some places may have never been And to be loved we need to be loved We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain

That our lives bring We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things. Yeah, we can do hard things. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts. Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it.

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