We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - On Not Being Chosen, Re-Parenting Yourself & Getting Started | Live on Tour!

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

429. On Not Being Chosen, Re-Parenting Yourself & Getting Started | Live on Tour!  In this special episode, we share moments from an unforgettable night in Portland on our first-ever live tour. We gathered with thousands of you to celebrate our Indie and New York Times Bestselling book, We Can Do Hard Things. We talk about the ache of not being chosen, the grief of lost teams and families, the power of self-parenting, the fear of starting something you may not finish, and the courage to lead hard conversations in your own circles.This tour has been about connection, community, and staying human—and we’re so grateful you’re part of it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over deliver. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we are bringing you a very special episode

live from Portland, Oregon. One of the 10 cities on our first ever tour together, Glenn and Amanda and me and Tish. It was so fun. My God. We gathered with thousands of you to celebrate our indie and New York Times bestselling book, We Can Do Hard Things.

Tish was on stage, our team was there, and get excited because there was a special guest who was in the room that night. That was wild. It would be nearly impossible to express what it meant being together with you in person. We decided to share a taste of that magic here. And if you love this one,

we'll be bringing more of these moments in the weeks ahead. The We Can Do Hard Things Tour was about connection and community. It was about holding on to our humanity together by not letting go of what makes life beautiful. We were so honored to partner with The Florence Project and the Acacia Center for Justice and the entire network of orgs all over the country supporting immigrant families who are fighting for their lives and their humanity.

All of our tour proceeds went to this life-saving work. We did that together. All of you, thank you. We invite you, no, we beg you to find and support the heroes in your own city doing this vital work every day to protect our neighbors. And for more info on those orgs, you can go to ProtectTheKids at TreatMedia.com and find the heroes in your community. We loved our time in Portland. We did not want to leave. find the heroes in your community. We loved our time in Portland. We did not want to leave.

This magical night opens, well, you'll hear, with a question from Kara. And from there, we just spent the evening talking about the ache of not being chosen, the grief of lost teams and families, the power of parenting yourself, the fear of starting something you may never finish, and the courage

to lead hard conversations in your own circles. We laughed, we cried, we sang, we love you Portland. Our hearts are still full. Thank you for showing up for this book, for this community, for each other. Has it ever been more important to do that? We love doing life with you. Let's go. ["Sister"] You can start your question here.

Oh, me first? Yes, you first. It's so scary. Okay, my name is Kara. Hi, Kara. Amanda, sister, you shared a story in the book where you talked about being at an airport and finding yourself at a crossroads. But the day after your book

came out, May 7th, the love of my life, found herself at a crossroads. That was very similar. It was beautiful. Both roads were beautiful. And she chose the road that didn't include me. You have to know, the three of you have to know the potent medicine that your book has been to me over the last nine days. It's been incredible. It's been the warmest blanket of comfort that's let me stay soft and open and to see the beauty

and the wisdom in her decision. My question to you is, this book is magical in that there are gonna be moments in our life where different parts of the book speak to us in different ways. And I'm just curious if there are any parts of the book right now that speak to you or that are a particular medicine to you right now in your lives. You are beautiful, Kara. Really. Thank you for that. It's well, because the story I was telling in the book that you're referring to, Kara, is when I made a decision to leave a path that I really loved in order to come home and marry John, my husband.

And just about how we think when you're grieving something, when you have two paths and you take one and then you feel a lot of grief, you think it means you took the wrong path. But actually, and choosing anything you love means forgoing and forsaking something else that you love often. And that's why we tend to not make choices. Because it sucks so bad either way, that we're like,

oh, just stay right here on this part of the path and never go down either. And I just don't think that's the way life works. But as you're saying that, that happened with me, with my first husband. And I can see from his choices that that is what he needed to do. And you're a lot more graceful than I am

because I've just come around to that like seven years after the fact. But it's so hard. It's so hard and it's so heartbreaking. And I don't think it ever goes away because you can, to not be chosen, that doesn't stop hurting. It still doesn't, it still hurts me now, you know? And so, that's beautiful that you're going through it

the way you are. And I'm sorry and I'm happy for you because there is a path ahead for you too. Can I get a hands up for all the people who have not been chosen in this room? Here we are. And I only say that because your pain is specific and real and true and now that I have found somebody who chose me I have only now been able to understand that part of the pain that I was experiencing and being rejected and not being chosen is that I didn't have enough love and respect for myself.

There was this gaping, missing piece to me that I needed to recover, that I needed to figure out. And I don't know if that rings true for you, but try to fall so fucking deeply in love with yourself right now. Just do that. And it sounds like you're doing this with such grace and beauty and compassion for this person more than I probably would have,

but I'm kind of mad at this person right now. I don't even know them. would have, but I'm kind of mad at this person right now. I don't even know them. But yeah, just take radical self care, radical self love, whatever you can. I've actually just recently fallen in love with myself. Just recently. Kind of like feeling myself all of a sudden.

I know, it's so weird to say that out loud I'm kind of like feeling myself all of a sudden. I know, it's so weird to set that out loud in front of a thousand people. Anyways. Thank you for that. Yeah, thank you so much. Let's go up top to the person with the tie on. Hey Abby. Hi.

Former soccer player, 23 years, goalkeeper. Woo! I was so grief stricken when I had to leave. My foot doctor said you'll never walk again if you keep kicking the ball on the same spot over and over again, right? Yeah. And indoor, outdoor, I gave it all up. I'm a referee now, it's not quite

the same. I get to see the same folks, but at the end of the game, I walk off by myself. And Glennon's book came along when my wife left me. I'm in love with a beautiful woman up there. So it's a two-part question. I want to know how to go over the grief of losing that team environment that are your family and then how to get over the grief of losing the intact family. Mm. Wow. Oh my God, Portland. Shit.

Portland is coming for us. So beautiful. I'll just answer the team one, because that might be most relevant. I don't know that answer, yes. I could feel the if you wanted. I'll handle the broken family though, I got that. People ask me all the time if I miss playing soccer.

And the unequivocally, like, easiest, quickest answer is like, no. I did it for 30 years. So I don't miss playing the game. I miss the people. I miss the people. I miss the feeling of belonging. I miss the feeling of like energy, of badassery, of just shenanigans, like the weird stuff

that happens in locker rooms. I'm trying to replicate that on the road. It's not happening. It's not going well. We're not sitting. Maybe you could tell. It's not happening the same way that it did back then. Little different.

And I think something that I've also... I've never even been in a locker room, like ever in my life. I don't know what to do there. Get changed and you hang out with your teammates and friends. That's what I've seen on TV. I think something that I've learned in the last couple years about grief, it's this idea that we're trying to not feel it. And instead of not necessarily avoiding it

or not wanting to feel the loneliness or the longing for this thing you once had, I don't know, there's a part of me that's like, I think the feeling it, like the feeling of that is okay. I do. I think feeling sad and broken and heartbroken over missing and longing for something that you might not have right this second is okay.

It's like expanding our capabilities in a way. Now we can't stay in that state forever, right? So what do we do about it? For me, I go to the gym every single morning, and PS, I hate working out. Anybody else hate working out? I was really good at it for a long time, but I tell you, I hate it and I never wanna go.

But I go because there's this little community and like, Glennon knows this, the drives are crazy, but everywhere I go into, like every restaurant I go into, like I know the people, I'm like talking to the people, I'm trying to find, I'm like in search of belonging the way that I felt in these locker rooms everywhere I go. And I think that that's like kind of a superpower of mine in a weird way, not to be braggadocious about it,

but like I really think that like not everybody is like us in that way. And so keep trying to find your people, no matter what arena you're in, what locker room you're in, what restaurant you're in. Like sometimes I have better conversations, seriously no offense.

I have better conversations with somebody I'm just shooting the stupid shit with. Oh you so bad just wanna shoot the shit. I'm so sorry about that. I wanna shoot the shit. She does, she does. I don't wanna talk about the hardest things in the whole wide world all the time. I don't.

Oh, that's what we're doing wrong. Well, that's all I got. That's what I have there for a number. You're not like! Well, that's all I got! Why aren't you out there for locker rooms? You're not like inner generational trauma. I love you. I know you do. And I love our conversations. I am a lesbian, so yes.

And, let's shoot the shit some more. Yeah. You wanna take the other part of the question? Well, I'm just thinking about how it's kind of the same thing. Like you lost the team and then you lost your little team or you feel like you did. And that must be really, really hard.

I have a feeling just based on you and the way you asked that question that your family is going to be fine. Yeah. I think it's because of your openness and your vulnerability just makes me feel like you're probably a really trustworthy parent. I can tell you that I really, I feel that it is deeply true for me that I know a lot of families that are in their original configuration that are really broken. And I know a lot of families that have changed their configuration and feel so vibrant and so whole to me.

And I don't think that any family's wholeness or health has to do with whatever structure they've decided. I think a whole family is any family where each person in that family gets to bring their whole self to the table. And that's it. So I think your little team is going to be okay. Because I can tell by the way you just brought yourself to that question, that you're the kind of person that fosters people being able to bring their full self.

So I think your babies are going to be okay. Applause Music you love about Porter with the new BeMo VI Porter MasterCard. Enjoy more freedom, more flexibility, more rewards, more of all the things you love. Need I say more? Get your ticket to more with the new BeMo VI Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit bemo.com slash VI Porter to learn more. I'm Kristin Press and I'm Tobin Heath. We're World Cup winners, Olympians, and the hosts of the Recap Show. Every week we sit down with the icons, disruptors, and game changers on the field and beyond it to talk victories, heartbreaks, and everything in between. We've built a space where athletes, change makers,

and people creating the future of women's sports can show up and show off as their full unapologetic selves. Follow and listen to the Recap Show wherever you get your podcasts. ["The Recap Show"] Okay, let's do another couple of questions. Yes. Thank you so much.

I'm Elena. Hi, Elena. Oh my God. I'm 33. Y'all have been in my ears on my walks for so many years and I can't tell you how fucking grateful I am. But speaking of generational trauma, yes, like many in this room, have a mother. Raise your hand if you have or had a mother.

And she is beautiful, incredible, loves me so much, and couldn't mother me in the way that so many of us hope for. Yeah. And you all have mothered me in ways I can never explain. No. But my question is, how do we mother ourselves?

How do we mother each other? How do we do that? I just wanna know. Oh. Shh. What a gorgeous question. It's a beautiful question. You got any ideas, Sissy?

I mean, do you have any children or do you want them? I don't have any. Okay. It might hinge on this question, is that what you're saying? Yeah, I mean, for me, I learned to mother myself through my kids. Like, I think when I see them, I mean, they're a giant pain in the ass for sure. And yet, when I see them and I just see how absurdly worthy of love they are. My brain can calculate their worthiness of love and grace and joy and peace in a way that I would have never thought could translate to me. I want every good thing for them. There's never

an equivocation about whether they deserve it or whether at the core of them they're so very good. And I didn't know that I didn't believe that about myself until I saw it so clearly with them. And I thought, oh, this was true for me too. Like the natural love and worthiness that I see in them also existed in me and still does. And so for me, it's such a simple thing, but until you're confronted with it like that, it took that for me to understand that I am inherently worthy of that love and I don't have to, I should not have to, not that I don't have to, theoretically should not have to hustle and perform for love the way that I understood I had to growing up.

Because if they don't have to, neither did I. And so that I practice that with my kids. I literally try to transfer it. Like when I have a huge overflowing of love with them, I'm like, me too. Me too. And that helps heal me, I think, that piece of it. Yeah, I think a big part of being an adult is just constantly reminding yourself and

your nervous system that you're an adult and you're safe now. Right? Isn't it? That is what, I mean, this round of recovery for me is, I think, the first time I've ever really done recovery. I think every other time I've kept it very cerebral. I've been able to blame... In general, my idea was I have an eating disorder because of the patriarchy. And that's true-ish. But this round, I've been doing family of origin stuff. I've really been allowing myself to go back to when I was little and to understand why a little girl would become, feel so afraid that she would have to only live in her mind, only live in books,

and control everything through food. You know, as a kid I was not, I was in a family with a lot of love, and with a lot of anger, and a lot of high complicity in that anger. That might sound familiar to some of you, I've heard I'm not the only one with that situation. But, you know, I didn't ever feel like

I was in a safe environment to have big feelings, to have an appetite, to grow, to be big in any way, really. And so it makes sense that now, every time I get scared, like this last relapse for me came right after the election. When I start to feel afraid, my little girl self says, oh, we know how to handle this, just shut it down. You know, it's like you're a wild animal and you protect yourself from being prey by what?

You don't sleep, you don't eat, you don't... you just stay vigilant. You just stay vigilant. So for me, part of mothering myself now is to remind myself over and over again that I am an adult now. The rules are not the same. That it is okay now for me to rest. That it is okay for me to eat. That it is okay for me to be big and loud and grow.

Because I am, there's an adult in the room now and it's me. Every time I relapse, it's because I have gone a little bit unconscious and I have let my little girl self start driving again. And she only knows one thing to do, to keep me safe. And what responsible adults do is they don't let the child drive. Right? They love the child. They offer the child, you know, understanding for their fear and their small ideas and they offer wiser ideas and then they put the child in the back seat where the child belongs and they say, I've got this now. So that is what recovery is for me now. It's just putting a little girl and that's what mothering myself is.

There's a mother in the room now and it's me. And so I can let my little girl self do what she needs to do which is rest in the back seat and just trust that somebody's got the wheel. That was pretty good. That was really good. That was really good. I never said that before, but that was right.

That was very good. That was right, yeah. That's what we call a banger. So Elena, there is someone in the driver's seat now and it's you, so your little girl self can rest. Okay, let's go up top now. Hi, my name is Brandy and thank you guys for being here. My bestie Danny and I have been listening

since the very first episode. Hi! Oh my God, Glennon just waved at me. So, an opportunity of sharing space with one of my favorite authors, my writing mentor would kick me if I did not ask this question. And Abby, you brought this up when you said you have a fear of dying. My mom died when she was 36. I was 15, almost 16. And I have this dream of writing a memoir. And part of the fear that my therapist and I

are working through, in addition to IFS and generational trauma and all those things, one of the fears that we've uncovered is that I'm afraid, I have this fear in the back of my mind that I'm gonna die young, that I'm not gonna be around, that if I start it, I won't be able to finish it. And I would just love advice from you three as authors and as amazing gems of warriors of women

that are leading us all, as far as how to break that barrier down. Well, it makes sense that you would be worried that you won't finish it, but you definitely won't finish it if you don't start it. If you don't start it, yeah, that's true. Right? But everybody doesn't finish it, you know?

Like it's not, like that's so common. It is hard to do. It really is. But you can't let this one fear, because you don't know, you could live until you're 95. You know? Sorry, I interrupt you. I have a little index card next to my computer that has one sentence on it from, it was a

quote from a woman who I think is one of the best writers on the planet who is in this room. Uh oh. Her name is Cheryl Strayed. Cheryl Strayed! Who is also from Portland! And it says, how it feels to write a book is that it is impossible to write a book. That is how it feels. And that's, I have that next to my computer. another one. Well, okay. Here's what I think

Whenever someone says to me like I think a lot each day about whether I have a drinking problem, but I'm not sure about it I'm like, okay You know who doesn't wonder every day if they have a drinking problem People who don't have a drinking problem. Right. So like if you're thinking about it each day, then yeah. So I also everyone doesn't feel like they need to write a book. Oh, that's good. If you are a person who thinks that you need to write a book, then I can promise you

that you need to write a book, then I can promise you that you need to write a book. And nobody writes a book, all they do is they sit their ass in a chair for like they decide how many hours they're gonna suffer a day and they... It's so true. It's awful. It's the worst. Oh. And if you can do anything else, you should do it. But if it nags you each

day, then that means that you are a writer and you must write the book and that means that you must, you owe it to yourself to decide whether it's one, two, or three hours. It can't be more than that. And that your butt is going to be in the chair each day and that that's a deal you're going to make with yourself. And you're not going to worry about when it's done or how it's done. All you're going to worry about is that your butt gonna be in the chair each day and that that's a deal you're gonna make with yourself. And you're not gonna worry about when it's done or how it's done. All you're gonna worry about is that your butt will be in the chair for two hours a day and you will be so, you will see,

it will just suddenly start to happen over time and you'll have your book. So you're gonna write it. Are you gonna promise us all right now that you're gonna? Let's go! Yeah! Yeah! I love accountability!

And if you wanna know how to write a memoir, just effing read wild again. Everybody's already ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay let's go down here. Let's go to the back a little bit. Yes, you jumping. I like the jumper. I like the jumper you said.

My enthusiasm worked. What'd she said. My enthusiasm worked. What did she say? My enthusiasm worked. Oh yeah. See, I'm a seven. My name is Bernie, fellow lesbian. Fellow lesbian is a funny thing to say. You know.

I get it. Okay. If it works, so. So as Dr. Brene Brown says, shame is not a tool of social justice. It's a tool of oppression. And so as this country is shifting and there's a lot of activism going on, a lot of protests, I really want to become a leader of the conversation on anti-racist work, both in the bigger aspect of my community and also among friends.

And so I was wondering how to normalize these conversations amongst my friends and get past that shame to have these conversations. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So is it shame or is it fear? Like I think starting those kinds of conversations with friends and in big groups is, for me it's more fear based. What is the shame? You can just yell it. Do you mean not shaming other people? You mean not shaming, oh I don't know how to do that.

Ha! Ask an easier question than that. Do you mean not shaming other people? No, I want people to get past their own shame. Their own shame, okay. Okay, all right. That's fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what I would say just off the bat

is that there are brilliant, brilliant racial justice leaders and thinkers everywhere who have been doing, I'm sure in this community, who have been doing this kind of work and who know these things that you're talking about. And I think one of the, when we're moved in these moments, which is that's glorious important work that needs to be done and you should do it.

And you should find someone in this community who has been working for a long time in that lane to guide you. Yeah. working for a long time in that lane to guide you. Yeah. Um, because we don't have to make up anything. We have to bring our gifts to a movement, but a movement only moves

because people are doing it together. And so I would say your first step is to plug in, find people who do this with their lives, and learn from them and do what they say. Mm-hmm. I love that you want to do that. Thank God. I mean, right now, it's just amazing how... it felt so easy when it was popular, right?

Like when everybody was wearing the right T-shirts and old Davey had queer stuff and like now it's a different vibe and so it's more important than ever to be brave with our voices and to, you know, I don't know, we keep having these monstera plants on every stage. I think about them constantly because we have a son who is

obsessed with plants. And he taught me that the monstera plant is special because all plants grow towards the light, right? I don't know. I'm not a scientist, but I think that they do. But the monstera plant is special because it grows in the rainforest, and so there's a huge canopy, and so it doesn't get sun, but it knows, and it's like little plant DNA.

It just trusts that it can grow through the dark for a really, really long time, because it knows somehow that the light is out there somewhere. It's searching for the light. Yeah, so I feel like that's what we have to do now, right? It's gonna be scarier than ever to say the things we need to say and do's what we have to do now. Right, it's gonna be scarier than ever to say the things we need to say

and do the things we need to do, but we just have to keep growing in the dark because also that's what those guys were doing. They didn't take a day off. They were at tables, they were at meetings, they were planning, plotting, plotting, plotting for when this moment came, they were ready. And we have to do the same thing.

So good job, find the people, become that, that you want, I mean, just like the book writer, not everybody wants to do that, so if you want to do it, please do. And also, sister, can you tell the story about how fascism wins? Well. Well.

This is gonna make you feel cozy. No, this is actually, this is so important. No, it goes to shame. When you're talking about the, this is actually, this is so important. When it goes to shame, when you're talking about the shame piece, I think that's really important because I think if when we're being super honest with ourselves, when I am, it's like, I don't always know the right answers to things.

I know I'm saying stuff wrong. I know I'm not getting it totally right, right? And I think we do have shame is a tool not only used by one side of the team. I think in sometimes in our world of even more like moderate and left, we utilize shame a little too hard. Yes. And I think we need to stop that. And the reason I think we do is because it's just, it's not effective. It scares people into being quiet and that's the last thing that we need right now. So what Abby's talking about is that in fascism 1.0 in the 1930s it

was you know it's a threat all over Europe. It was there's a couple things about it. First it started because as Paul Mason says like fascism is the fear of freedom triggered by a taste of freedom. This isn't coming out of nowhere. It is coming because, like in Fascism 1.0, when the workers' rights movement was getting very, very, very strong all over Europe, and it was very, very scary

to the elites and the middle class. That's why fascism took place, is because there was this fear of these workers' rights, they're coming and they're gonna come get what's theirs. In this moment, it feels like the oppressive forces are so strong and so loud. But we need to ask, why do they need to be so loud? They need to be so loud because the taste of freedom

is here, right? It's coming. That's right. That's right. And so that's like what's under all of this, but in 1.0 in the 30s, when you look at all of the places throughout Europe where fascism was a threat, in some places it took hold, in some places it did not.

And the factor that determined the difference was whether the center and the left formed coalition. Yep. So it isn't as fun to feel like less righteous about yourself, but what I'm saying is So it isn't as fun to feel like less righteous about yourself, but what I'm saying is if we don't know what's ahead, we better damn well look at what's behind us and take our lessons from that.

And in every place where the center and the left through collaboration, through compromise, through sacrifice with each other, joined forces and fought against the fascists, fascism did not take hold there. In the places, it did not take hold because the right was so strong, it took hold because the left imploded. And we can't afford that right now.

And I think a place what we can do is have a little less shame production from ourselves, a little more like if someone is willing to link arms with you and fight against the fascism taking over in this country, let's not like unlink our arms with a test of political purity. Let's just move forward together and do what we need to do.

That's right. That was so good. It is my rule in life to hang out with people that are smarter than me. So that's what I've done. -♪ Pshh! -♪ Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure.

Stay three nights this summer at Best Western and get $50 off a future stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. We're going to go up top and I think we have to go to these two lovely folks in the sequence school. Oh my god, sequence! They just, the sequence people just high fived each other by the way.

That was really good. Oh my god, that's great. Hi. Hi. We're sisters. The sequence sisters, everyone. The sequence sisters. I just wanted to say, my sister and I were sitting here watching Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish,

Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish, Tish We're sisters. The Sequent Sisters, everyone. The Sequent Sisters. I just wanted to say, my sister and I were sitting here watching Tish beautifully annihilate all of those songs. And I was getting so teary and bleeding on my sister.

I have two girls. And I just was fast forwarding seeing maybe a future where my kids are on stage or doing something they love. And I just wanna say good job and how'd you do that? How'd you do that? Oh, that is really the question. That's it, okay. How did we do it? I mean, I will tell you,

there's so many answers to that question, but one of the things that is tied to her being on stage is that Tish actually, of all three, was the most outwardly sensitive. When Abby joined the family, she was having a really hard time, and I wanted her to get into more therapy and Abby said, how about soccer? And I was like, is that like therapy? Sports. Yeah and she started to play soccer and I just watched her. Through watching her play soccer,

I understood what sports are for. Because she, it's like this little microcosm where you can experience all the emotions safely and you can fail and flail and win and try and be vulnerable in this like little pocket of time where it's safe to do that and she just grew and grew there. And then one day she was having an emotional reaction to something and Abby put a guitar in her hand and said, why don't you go write a song?

I mean it's honestly probably self-preservation for us, right, at the time, but she found music and that transformed her. When you have a sensitive kid with a lot of feelings and thoughts, you must get them into art. It saved her. She goes into her room and she changes her, she transforms her big feelings into music now,

and it's like, it's opened up the entire world for her. It's changed her life. And I would just say, as they're going through some of the teenage years, hang on. Hang on, because then they get to a place where, and I'm not saying that she'll stand on stage, your kids will get to the place where they're standing on some stage and they're able to say words like

love and hate on a spectrum or generational healing work. Like she's 19 years old. And that only happens because she was given the space, the pulling our hair out, not knowing what is going on with this kid, the space to find herself. Because now she knows she can take herself everywhere she needs to go and she can handle

all of the emotions that come up because she's been doing them with us. And now that she has this guitar and this microphone and her brilliant lyrics that she's writing and putting the music and making records, like it's just, it's a miracle to me that she can do any of it, because none of us have any, I mean, you're a writer,

so I guess you know what that's about. Yeah, but musically, I mean, where did that come from? I don't know. So weird. I mean, I would say, lastly, it's so weird. So weird. I think, lastly, what I would say to you, since yours are still younger, one thing that I would do differently,

I talk to Abby about this a lot, is that I brought my kids a lot of I've got you energy. Like I thought that that was my job, like mama bear, no matter what happened, like I've got you, I've got you, no matter what, I've got you, I've got you, I'll take you. And I think that if I could do it all over again, I would have shifted that a lot to you've got you energy.

Like I was thinking about the moment that I die and that the kids are there, if I'm lucky enough to have that sort of moment. And I was thinking about how I've always thought that what they should be thinking in that moment is, there goes the best damn mom that ever. Like she effing nailed it. Couldn't have been done better.

That's truly what I thought I was going for. And it was only like a couple months ago that I thought, that is not, it's true, it's true. It was like two months ago that I was like, that's not right. Like that, that would be so sad because then they'll think, what do we do now? Like what, no. Like, what you want them to think in that moment is, I'm gonna be OK. So it's like, do whatever you have

to do every single day in and day out so that they learn over time that they've got themselves. So that that is what your parenting is. So at the very end, you're leaving and they're saying, I've got themselves. So that that is what your parenting is. So at the very end, you're leaving and they're saying, I've got me. That's the moment. Um. So, unfortunately.

No, I want to live in Portland now. She wants to live in Portland now, you guys. Unfortunately, our time has come where we are going to leave, sadly. But I wanted to call out a few people who have been instrumental at making this book look like it looks. Val, Annie, Rachel, can you guys stand up wherever you are? There they are, we love you so much. That's our team right there. Yay!

These three, two of whom live in Portland. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Literally all the illustrations in this book. Annie drew them all. Annie did all of them, the merch, Val and Annie. You guys have been a freaking miracle to work with.

We love you. Thank you so much. Like the joy you bring to our team. Do you guys want to hear from Tish one last time? Tish, come on. Thank you, Pod Squad. Thank you for showing up and for helping us stay human with your brave and beautiful questions.

I will never forget those moments with you on the road. We cherished every single moment being together with you in person. God, we love doing life with you. We're closing this episode the same way we ended each unforgettable night with Tish singing, We Can Do Hard Things. Until next time, I give sure I got what's mine And I continue to believe that I'm the one for me And because I'm mine I walk the line

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map A final destination we lack We stopped asking directions to places they've never been. And to be loved we need to be known. We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do our thing I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start I'm not the problem, sometimes things fall apart And I continue to believe The best people are free

And it took some time But I'm finally fine We're adventurers and heartbreaks on that final destination we lack We've stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home and through the joy and pain that our lives bring we can do hard things Because we're adventurers and heartbreaks on back We might get lost but we're okay back We've stopped asking directions In some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be wrong

We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things