We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Our Oscar-Nominated Andrea Gibson Film: Meg Falley and Sara Bareilles

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

Megan Falley takes over the mic to interview Glennon, Abby, and Sara Bareilles about Come See Me In the Good Light—their Oscar-nominated documentary honoring poet Andrea Gibson and the last year Meg and Andrea spent together. They each share why they said yes to the project, how the film changed the way they understand love, grief, and being fully alive, and why this isn’t a story about death—it’s a story about living more vibrantly right now. Come See Me in the Good Light  premiered at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival, where it won the Festival Favorite Award, and has since been named one of the National Board of Review’s Top 5 Documentaries of the year, earning major honors including nominations at the Satellite Awards and Film Independent Spirit Awards. Now nominated for the Academy Award for Best Documentary — to be presented Sunday, March 15 — Come See Me in the Good Light can be streamed on Apple TV. For more episodes with our friends, Andrea, Meg, and Sara, check out:  The Bravest Conversation We’ve Had: Andrea Gibson Megan Falley Knows What Love Is An Unforgettable Double Date with Andrea Gibson & Megan Falley Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley Watch OUR 1ST FILM – Come See Me in the Good Light: Meg Falley (& Andrea Gibson) Sara Bareilles: How to Remember Yourself Follow We Can Do Hard Things on:  Instagram — ⁠https://www.instagram.com/wecandohardthings⁠ TikTok — ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@wecandohardthingsshow⁠

Hello, Pod Squad. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Yes. My name is Megan Falley, and I am here today with Abby Wambach, Glennon Doyle, and Sarah Borellis. Yes. No, you might be surprised to hear me hosting, but Glennon, in one of her many acts of care for me, always refers to her and Abby's kids as my kids, her and Abby's dogs as my dogs, And today she's allowing this to be my podcast.

And I get to interview my friends about our film that's now Oscar nominated. Come see me in the Good Light. Yes. Usually I am on the A side of Q&A's, but I am very excited to be on the Q side. Oh, exciting. You're so good. You just crushed that. intro wow hi everyone i am so happy to be here with you all i love all of your faces and i really feel like

we figured it out we figured out how to make art with our friends that is meaningful and beautiful and to have fun together doing it even through ridiculously challenging times and i'm so proud of us and i wanted to ask you well i wanted to give a little context. For those of you who don't know, come see me in the Good Light, is the documentary that Glennon, Abby, Sarah were executive producers on, as well as a horde of lesbians and Kevin Nealyn. And it's been nominated for an Oscar, which is just about a month away. And the film, is about the last year with me and my partner, our last year spent together. My partner, Andrea Gibson, Poet Laureate of Colorado, but now as Glennon calls them,

the Poet Laureate of Heaven, and our final year together, really. And it sounds like a hard watch, but it is a ridiculously joyful and hopeful film. Well, first I'll tell you why Andrea and I said yes to having the last. last year of our lives documented together. And then I want to ask you all why you said yes to this project. Andrew was doing a cancer chemo treatment that was really difficult on their eyesight, and it made writing really hard to do. Looking at a screen became really hard. But Andrew was such an artist, and all they wanted to do was create all of the time, and to not create felt like not living. And I think that when we were approached by our friend, Steph Willen, one of the other

producers of the film and asked if we wanted to make a documentary of our life. My artist's partner, Andrea, felt like, oh my God, you mean I can just like lay in bed and someone will turn it into art and I can go to the doctor and it will be art and I can cuddle with my dogs and somebody will make it into something beautiful that helps people. And I really think that was the main allure to this project, and that is what happened. And I'm curious for you all, when approached to be a part of it, why did you say yes? And what was the question? Sarah? Okay. Let's see. I said yes very quickly. It was a two-prong immediate response. First and foremost, being called up into the major league of creatives and advocacy and activism that happens in the group of

humans brought together that we're making this film was like whatever you're up to and into, I want in. But that was sort of secondary to having kind of recently prior to this invitation been introduced to Andrew's work. And I was going through a really difficult time. And I was in Colorado and I was at Andrew's show. I was at the show that is featured in this incredible film. And having that physical real life experience, it felt like going to church, even if you're not someone who goes to church.

It was a spiritual experience. It was like a metamorphosis moment. And I also felt really talk about the caretaking that you're talking about, Meg, is like I shared a little bit with Abby and Glennon at the show about what was going on for me and the care that was born out of that moment and the follow up and the checking in and the, just, yeah, it just all felt completely in alignment. And so it was a fast, easy yes. And it feels like I have like three of these in my life, like a before and after moment.

There's like life before a good light and life after. And I'm so happy to be living in the chapter of after, even though it means living without Andrea on the face of the earth. But Andrea is everywhere. I really, really feel that. And it's just been an extraordinary, extraordinary experience. Well, the day that we even became aware that this is something that could happen and TIG texted us and basically was like kind of official in her language of text. She said, I have this thing that I want to talk to you guys about.

You know, it was like 7.30 at night. Which is ridiculous because obviously we were already in bed. Yeah. I have this project, this business thing that I really want to talk to you all about. but like let me know when you're available. I'll send a Zoom link, all of these like really professional things. And like half the time we never know if Tig is telling us just like if we're in the middle of a bit for her or not.

So we just texted her back and we were like, yes, we're ready now. Like we're in bed. Like so just call us, you know, what's going on. And so she called and told us about the idea and immediately. Oh, we were just like looking at each other when Tig was talking and it was like we were having the, oh, of course, this is absolutely something that has to happen. I think the deeper reason why I wanted to be a part of this is because we had actually yet to meet you guys in person, Meg. So weird. And Andrea.

And we were just like online friends, which I don't know what that is, but I knew that we were going to be friends. And so we had to like, maybe this is our only chance at really being real friends with them. That's so true. I feel like that's real. We were like, what do we have to do? Yeah, we'll do anything. Found of the documentary. Fine.

What else? I would have definitely allowed you all to be friends without that just so you know for the record. But I am really glad that you did. For sure. But more than that, I mean, I think that like we knew that this was probably going to be difficult project in terms of the heart wrenchingness. And that, honestly, it's ironic because that was like the only thing that I felt nervous about because I have this thing with death that I wasn't at the time ready to kind of reconcile with. And I was like, well, this is showing up because

this is something that I need to like work with and work through. So selfishly speaking, it was it was definitely an important moment for me. And what ironically ended up happening, which has been the most beautiful thing is that this movie has nothing really to do with death and it has everything to do with living and love and you Meg and Andrea's love and how to live more bravely and how to live more fully. And meeting all of the people who were involved with this film has been one of if not the most important teams I've ever been on. I will try my best to find to other teams like this, but I think that they're going to all fall short. Agreed.

What about you, G? Well, I was thinking when you said that you'd always had a struggle with death, and that's what kind of felt like the work you were doing with this team and film, and I feel like I have always had a struggle with life. I knew you're going to say that. Really? I never thought of it. So you said that.

I was like, oh, my God, you don't like death and I don't like life. It's true. And that's amazing. I mean, that's a funny thing, but also that's how I found Andrea is that the Pod Squad knows about this. So I'll just tell a 30 second version. But I was in the depths of my last round of recovery from anorexia, eating disorders, which is not about food.

It's about life. It's about like food being a constant vote yes to life. And whether or not you want to engage in. in yes to life or not. That's kind of, I feel like, at the root of it for me. And so at the, I was really not making any progress. And one day my therapist said, I just need you to find Andrea Gibson,

which, as you know, was honestly terrifying for me that one of the best doctors in the planet was like, all we have left for you is a fucking poet, like, Godspeed. So I hadn't cried for like 20, years, which maybe was because of all of the Lexaprobe, but also because nothing was like true enough is the only one thing I kept saying to my therapist. Like I understand, none of this is true enough. I think first I read, you better be lightning. And it was like three pages in and I just was looking at the book and there were drops of water on it. It was like Wizard of Oz shit. I was like,

I am a real girl. I am life is happy. It was like something was fun. finally true enough, which maybe is what tears are, is like when something is true enough because it's not sadness. It's just touching something true enough. So I don't know, Andrea made me want to say yes to life, I guess, is how that felt. And so that was my entry to Andrea. And it's interesting because we all seem to have this theme of like, we wanted in because of Andrea and we wanted in because of the people around this project. Were we pleasantly surprised? When I think about this team, Meg, Sarah, TIG, stuff, Ryan, Jess, I think of the line that Andrea says in the movie of my arms were tired from trying to hold everyone I ever loved.

Meg, do you remember what that line was? I think my palms, like my lifelines were, it's very close to what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Something like my arms felt tired from trying. to hold on to everyone I'd ever loved. And that's how I feel about this team. Like, I can turn anything beautiful into a problem. And now all I want to do is just not let any of you leave ever. And that's how I feel is I just want to keep you so close because there's just been so

much love and beauty. That's how we got in. Well, I'm really curious because I get a lot of messages or comments sometimes where people say that they're afraid to watch the film, that they're not ready to watch the film, that they're waiting kind of for the perfect moment. And Abby was sort of talking about the fear of getting closer to conversations about mortality and death. And I'm curious for you all, was there any hesitation to get close to this project or close to Andrea, close to somebody you knew you might have limited time with? Or even if not, if you've had that experienced before and what might you say to people who are kind of afraid to press play? I think that for me, it always felt like every time I was in Andrea's presence, that they knew

the world, that they knew something that I didn't know. And being near them, it was like, I don't know, there was just like an exhale of some sort. Like I didn't know I was holding my breath, but then I get around them and I'm like, oh, and they're funny, you know, like their, their humor was just so intoxicating. And so being around them during the filmmaking process was such an important thing for me. I don't know about everybody else, but I have fantasized, like, oh, if ever I was diagnosed with something, like, how would I proceed with the rest of my life? And Andrea was just like this beautiful example of feeling it all all the time. And I'll never forget when a hot flash would come and they would have to like run to the door because they're going to

talk through the hot flash but they don't want to miss any part of the conversation that that we were all having. We had this incredible conversation for Glennon's birthday a couple years ago. It was Glennon's favorite birthday that we ever had and it was like this really like a mortality centered conversation around. We talked about death for five hours. That was my birthday party. And it was the best birthday I've ever had. that like for anybody who is putting this this film on the back burner or like waiting, I get it, it will wake you up. Yeah. Kind of a film. And I understand that feeling. I have that all the time. Abby knows I can't even. So if Abby's upstairs listening to Sarah like not in person, like Sarah's music,

and I come upstairs, I'm like, what do you do it? Like I need, I can't just be, you can't just, I need to be ready. Like if it's going to be an artistically emotional experience, whether it's a song or a poem in our house. I feel like I have to prepare myself. You can't just be throwing things on. I'm just like, I'm cooking dinner, dude. Like, what the hell? Yeah, but if it's going to touch something, there's certain artists, certain things that's going to, I know is going to touch the ache inside of me. Yeah. You know, that ache that we have that is like, something's true enough. The truest thing is we all love each other so much and we're all going to lose each other. I don't know why people aren't just standing up in restaurants going,

what the fuck? We're all like, the weather's fine. We're all going to lose each other. It's a, bless everybody's heart for not wanting to approach that. The truest thing is that we are going to lose a version of ourselves and a version of each other. And so in the face of that, what we have to do is live and love as vibrantly as possible right now. Like there's a second half of that equation. And one of the things that people keep saying about this film, Megan Waterson just said, the movie ended and I suddenly started living more vibrantly. My entire life, all of my relationships, everything is more vibrant and intense now. And so I guess I would say I understand the avoidance of coming too close to that truth. And I think because of that,

it's so crucial to get through that hesitancy because coming out on the other side of this film makes you want to not waste a moment and love your people better and wake up to the miracle that's all around you. And it also is the opposite of what the world's telling us, which is that happiness is like something fancy away or some accomplishment away or joy and piece. And what this film does is remind you that that is all horseshit and that everything that is beautiful and loving and important is within your little reach right now. So it kind of saves you the hamster wheel. It helps you get off the hamster wheel. It helps you rest in your life and see all the beauty. I love that. It's making me think, two things you said are making me

think of lines of Andrew's poetry. One is it's in the poem acceptance speech upon setting the world record and goosebumps. And Andrea says, yeah, Andrew, me too. Andrea says they pulled the caution tape off their life

and let everything touch it. And that's like reminding me of what you were saying about being open to, you know, the emotional experience. But there's also a line. I might be paraphrasing it a bit, but it's like you're so afraid

of the hardest, like that you won't be able to get through the hardest thing because you don't yet know that the hardest thing is exactly what you need to like find the strength to get through it. It's good. And I think of the film somehow in that way. And the film is funny and is lighthearted and it really weaves from, you know, sadness and grief. But there's so much joy and there's so much love. But I really think it's almost like the film teaches you how to watch the film in a way.

Yes. Jeez, Louise. Yes. That's some meta shit. Yes. It's good. It also makes me think about there's just this, we've been fed that grief, pain is the opposite of good or the opposite of beauty. I think grief is a miracle.

I think it's terribly painful, but it is extremely beautiful. It's holy. And I think the more we're so as a culture, certainly, we're so afraid of our grief because I think people think they're going to disappear. They're going to like actually fall apart and disappear into it. And once you realize you can't that you just crack open, it's so funny, there's so many things that just relate back to like another line of Andrea's poetry where it's like there's another one. But it's like that if you can withstand the first few times, like working the muscle of getting close to what is painful or getting close to what is full of grief or sorrow or the dark matter, if you can just start working the muscle, then you realize it's actually really rich and kind of beautiful in there too. But there isn't this scary, you know, dark corner that you're not allowed into. And sure, you know, joy is really fun.

It's really fun. But I don't know. I just think, I mean, this feels like the lesson of my 40s, like that I just, I mean, I had like a lot of people, you get to an age and you're like, oh, I'm losing not just like friends parents or your own parents or, but you're losing friends. You might be losing people that are younger than you. You might, like, that thing you're saying, Glenn is about, like, everything we love, we lose. Like, that is hard things to make peace with in this life. But it is a fundamental essential. It's an organizing principle of being alive.

Yes, it is. It's so interesting because even as you all have been saying that, I have this pushback that's like, but do we really? Like, because I don't feel it as fully as I thought that I would. I don't feel bereft in the way that I anticipated. I would love so much more of Andrea's presence. And of course, I miss them all the time and I never know when it will like really strike me. It could be I wake up from a dream and it's like, who knows, whatever brings on the grief,

it's always an unexpected ambush. And it's not the situations I think that will bring it. But I don't know that I completely agree that we lose everything. everyone because I feel Andrew's presence so strongly. And it's really challenged my thoughts on all of that. Many of us want to pull back the curtain on investing, especially women. For a lot of us, we might have goals, right, to be saving for some sort of family vacation or just saving for retirement, obviously, maybe a first house. And a few years ago, I remember us wanting to invest for the first time so that our money was really reflecting and reflected in our values, right?

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represent the performance of any acorns portfolio investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorn investors, LLC, and SEC registered investment advisor, view important disclosures at acorn.com slash we can do hard things. One of the things that I also have learned in grief in the last couple years is we all have this pre-conceived notion that grief is an ending. Like the reason why we're grieving is because there's some sort of ending between me and thing that I've lost or whatever. And what I have learned is that sometimes I feel more sad than others because I can't express. the love that I want to in the way that I know how to. So learning to expand what the expression of love can look like in different forms has been part of my grief journey. So talking to Andrea when I'm

out on a walk or something happens. Anytime somebody says goosebumps, I think, Andrew. And like, I bring them into my consciousness, which is expressing love. And I think that If we limit our expression of love to only here and now in this matter of like the world we're in, I think that we are limiting our options. And I agree, Meg, like we've been sold the idea that when you're dead, you're gone or when somebody you love is dead, they're gone. And like, I don't know. I think that there's more to be revealed on that front. It makes me want to tell a story because I feel like I've gone from being, you know,

a really intense caregiver for many years to now being somebody who is the recipient of so much care. And I feel that so much from you all and everyone involved in the film really of like just taking me in in this supreme way. But one story that really touches me is I'd written the first line of poetry. I wrote a little bit of poetry. And I'm really just telling this for the pod squad because you all know what happened. but maybe Sarah doesn't. But I wrote a line of poetry for Andrea after they died, and it was like all the ways that I want them to come back to me.

And so come back to me as lightning, come back to me as, and one of the final lines is like, come back to me as our name, our initials carved into a tree we've never seen. And Abby and Glennon, after I posted that, sent me a photo of our initials carved into the tree in their front yard. And it was so beautiful. And it meant so much to me.

And I think like what you're saying, like you all are loving me, but you're also loving Andrea when you do that. You're like continuing their love for me. Because it's a romantic thing to carve initials into a tree like that. And I just love you all so much. It didn't feel like us loving Andrea. It felt like Andrea. was loving you through us.

It felt like I got to go carve something into a tree right now. It felt like, okay. It felt like Andrea was propelling us to do something for you. Is that how it felt to you? Yeah. Yeah. That's how it feels like Andrea getting to you when those things happened. I never carved anything into a tree before.

We had like a pen and we were like getting annoyed with each other because the bark kept falling. And I was like, does that look like an A? It was like a comedy of errors. And I just was laughing because I was like, Andrea is having the best time right now watching this. Like it's like the softest wooden tree ever known existed. And we figured out how to do it.

I was like, trees are like fabric? Like what is happening? Seriously. Are we sewing into the tree? It took our. It was anyway. Oh my gosh. I can see Andrea being.

like a very sort of demanding little ghost. So I like that. I'm curious what your favorite response to the film has been, whether that's your own response or somebody else's. Wow. Okay, I'll go really quick. Here's the thing. I have gone through kind of an interesting arc of career path. And I was soccer player. That's how people knew me. And then something kind of shifted that people only recognize me as a podcaster. And I was kind of like, oh, that's weird. I like did, I did soccer. Yeah, I know when I played soccer. Like I was trying to remind them. And now people come up to me and they say, the film that you made. And it's like one of the things that I feel most proud of when people don't talk about any other part of what I've done on this planet. And they come to me with that. And I,

I will stop and have a 20-minute conversation with that person, regardless of what I'm doing. I'll be late, which I really hate being late for things. So it is everywhere we go. I mean, we were in freaking Italy yesterday and people at the airport in Italy, people at the airport in layovers, walking up to us saying nothing. I'm in at the Olympics, y'all. They are saying zero things about Olympian, Abby. And they're saying all the things about come see me in the good light. Which I feel like is a gift from Andrea directly to me.

Like you're telling me we're at the Olympics and we don't even, we can tell, we're talking about poetry. We're talking about poetry at the Olympics. How about you? Do you have any story? Well, as you know, because we tell each other everything. There's no, oh, I liked that film. Yeah. It's like gushing, heart opening.

I have to tell you my entire life story. I have to tell you how this made me feel closer to the person that I lost. I have to tell you how this hasn't cured my fear of death, but it's cured my fear of my fear of death. It's like suddenly I don't have to hold my breath anymore around any of this. I can let it all in. There's some kind of freedom for people that write and say almost actually peed my pants during the film. Like that's always such a surprise for people, the humor. Which, of course, what's better than tears and then laughing and then tears and then laughing?

and then it's like baptism the whole time. And then for me, I'll just say one of my favorite categories of response is that no one can handle how much they love Meg. Everyone wants to talk to me about Meg. Then they want to know if they can know you. And so mostly I feel like I don't think I've ever been like a gatekeeper before. But now I'm like, if you want to know about Meg, you can ask me. You'll have to come through me. I'm a Meg gatekeeper now, but you just have to, there's something about the experience,

I think, for people, which is like watching what Andrea is going through, and then watching how Meg loves Andrea and handles all of it. There's something very sort of Buddhist and so completely present and also detached, like there's a detachment from fear, from worry, from any of it that makes. Meg able to be fully present because I guess worry is keeping yourself from the ache. It's like intellectualizing the grief so you don't have to be fully present inside the moment. Meg doesn't do that. That's good. So for me, I have a file saved someday out, but it's just all people talking about Meg Valley. You know? Yeah. I mean, the way that Meg approaches like in real life, sorry I'm talking

about you as if you're not here, but the way that you approach the world, Meg, is something that I learn from every single time I spend time with you. And I can't say it in like really eloquent ways like you just did. But what I will say is your eyes and the way that your eyes look at the world is something that I very much want to bring into my life and call in because there's like an acceptance and an awe at the same time about whatever is happening, wherever we are in the world or whatever we're doing, you always have this, I don't know, this grin, almost like you're getting away with something. Totally. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, she's up to something. Not that she's up to something. It's just that she feels like she's having an experience where like you can see and feel

that she's embodying this idea that like, how is this happening? This is so awesome. And it's like, we walk up to a customer service person behind a desk. And Meg is having the same experience there as she is watching Brandy Carlis or Sarah Borellis on stage. Do you know what I'm saying? It's just so cool to watch you walk through life, even in the face of what you've been going through over the last year, right? Like, that to me has just been so beautiful. What about you, Sarah?

Do you feel like in love with the world? Like, is it something you've had to cultivate in your life? Did you have to learn how or were you? always kind of, I don't know, so present. I think that you're turning the interview around on me, Sarah. This is my soft pit. Give me an episode, guys. I think, like, especially right now,

I am so aware of how thin and quick the line between here and not here is. And I think that I am constantly feeling gratitude. Like I think that's just, and I'm not like writing gratitude journals or trying to get there, although I imagine that is a fantastic practice because gratitude feels really, really good. It is kind of the opposite of everything else that weighs us down. And I think that that's sort of like the pep in my step. that I can look at every moment that way and largely now, because I know how quickly it can all be taken from you.

But Sarah, I want to know if you have any favorite responses to the film that you've watched or seen. Besides that, I'm thinking it was the man who was that Sarah invited to the film. We were asking until they got... He didn't realize it was a documentary, and he thought Andrea and I were incredible actors. And I was so good at crying. Yeah, I was like, you are really a sweet, dear, dear person.

Now I want to watch it again just from that perspective. Just from that perspective. I felt the exact same way. I was like, yeah, I want to go there. I want to go there. That was a good one. So I have two that come to mind. First is my friend E.D. Kerry, who lives in Colorado and was the person who like

brought me to the show. It was like, we're going. And I'm like, great, I'm going. This is after the film had been out for a minute. And she's like, we, we should have a group of friends that wanted to watch it together. So they finally all watched it together. And at least several of them are oncology nurses. And she said one of the most like interesting things that came out of them watching was they had a new found or a re-invigorated understanding of how important all of those mile marker meetings are to like walk through you know that part of the journey from the side of the patient and to realize that like oh when you're coming in to get your your blood markers or your whatever your checkups that they were so grateful to have the perspective and it were it like woke them up

And I thought that was really beautiful. And I like you guys, there's just, no one that I know has watched the film and not, I've gotten like just many, many, many, many texts that are like I feel like a different person now. But one of them was from my dad who we had just had this long conversation around Glenn and Abbey's table about, you know, we want to please our parents, of course. and this was not a film that's, you know, my dad is 82. And this is not a film that I even expected. He didn't watch the television show called Little Voice that I made and wrote the music to.

Like, they just didn't have Apple. And he's just like, I don't. And I'm like, Dad, I just made a whole TV show. Like I had headsets on. I was on set. I made the whole thing. He's like, ah. I don't have Apple, though.

How are you doing? But he watched this and he loved it. And he told me on the phone, he's like, you know, I don't claim to understand every piece of it. But what I really see is that they're just good people. And he loved Meg. And he said, I want you to thank Meg for taking care of Andrea. And I just thought that was so sweet.

There's something about this film that just is like, it's so tenderizing. I just believe it can move mountains. I really do. So burnout doesn't always show up the way we think it will. Sometimes it's just that low-grade dread when you open your email or that feeling of being weirdly exhausted even when you didn't do that much. That probably is true for a lot of people. That's why I want you to know about what strawberry.me is doing.

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and use code we can do hard things at checkout. After your purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. I want to try to put this into words because I think it speaks to the avoidance of it because people, if anyone's avoiding it, I actually haven't had that experience where people are avoiding it, but I'm just referring to your original question. I think maybe people hear the word death or cancer and they think it's about something. But like what I think what my therapist was saying, when she was like, okay, fine, just go just go straight to Andrew Gibson, is that you could spend your entire life reading every self-help book on the planet. You could do all the 10 steps to

blah, blah, blah, you could do, or you could just sit in Andrea and Meg's presence for an hour and a half and learn absolutely everything that you need to know. You could just get rid of all of the other. it's like a shortcut to the truth. It's a really good use of your time. It's like take everything you learned about wellness, throw it out. Take everything you learned on the psychological plane, on every plane, and just sit with this for an hour and a half and you'll take away more than you would have living in all those other areas. So I don't think that that's something we're emphasizing enough is that like this is a shortcut to freedom in a way. I'm glad that you brought up like The film is, yes, like Andrea has cancer, but it's also, cancer is not the main storyline at all.

It's definitely a love story, but it's about creating art. It's about bodies. It's about aging. It's about performance and passion and caregiving, queerness, like chosen family. It is about presence. It's spiritual in many ways. But yes, I think at the heart of it, it is. a love story and my favorite response.

And I've had many. I've probably been to like 50 screenings at this point and talk to people after. And I love talking to people after. I jokingly call myself sad Santa because sometimes I feel like people are lining up waiting to sit on my lap and tell me who died. Yeah. But I love it because it's, I know so many people who experience like incredible grief and then nobody talks about it. They don't know how to talk about it. And the film

makes Andrea have the line like, I know mortality isn't small talk, but I wish that it was. And I think in the way that Andrea made poetry accessible, they're also making talking about death accessible. But my favorite response, I don't know if I've told you all this yet. And I've had so, I love all the responses, really. But I met a man after screening in New York and he was probably in his late 50s, maybe early 60s. And he had told me that he had decided in his life that he just like, romantic love was not in the cards for him. He was going to focus on his career, focus on his friendships,

and had just like written love, that kind of love off for his life. And he came to me with tears in his eyes after the film. And he said he changed his mind about romantic love after seeing it. and he was going to open his heart to it again. Oh, I know. I know. I know. It's really good.

You know, there's this line in film that Andrews says that I always hated. We're in the car and they say something and it's early on and they say they think that their death might make their friends more of who they are. And I was the one part of the film I didn't like because Andrew was around to see the film. and I just felt like I don't want the universe to hear the message ever that anything about your death would be any good for any little particle of this whole human plane. I was like, let's just not put that out. That's how I felt.

But now I hear that line and it feels to me like a call to action. It feels like a kind of prayer. It feels like maybe like a rulebook that I don't want anyone to break. And I'm curious if you all feel like that there's any way that you've become more of who you are. 1,000 percent. I say that like very assuredly. I lost two best friends, one in 2020, one in 2024. And it was getting close to death, even though you don't wish lots of death on people,

but as a practice, because the first time I did it. with my friend Chad in 2020. I did it to the best of my ability, but I don't think my capacity was that big yet. I just, it was still really, it was foreign territory. And with my friend Gavin, who passed in 2024, I was much more open. I was broken open in a different way.

And so there was a part of me that was like, I don't want to miss this. And also he was so generous. I feel Andrea was the same way about, you know, to allow people into the end of your life is incredibly generous. And not everyone wants to do it that way. And I totally respect that too. But I feel like what I've learned from this chapter of being close-ish to this kind of loss is just, I feel so clear. about what I want for myself in this life.

And it has nothing to do with like big ticket achievement goals. It is the tiny bucket list. It has to do with this presence of spirit and mind and attention. That love, you know, loving someone is attention. Paying attention to people is loving them. And there's so much that distracts us from loving each other, from just paying attention to each other. And I think this film pays such close,

delicate attention to your love. And that is the gift that, like, people can take and absorb and metabolize. And it's like a primer in then how to go and love others better. And I loved that line. I feel like that is Andrea moving through, you know, the people that we've lost in physical form. They don't stop moving around.

I believe you in that. We might lose the ability to wrap our arms around their bodies. But, you know, when we get to wrap our arms around other things. Love that, Sarah. What's happening? I feel like what you said before about the film teaches us how to watch the film. I feel like Andrea in the film teaches us how Andrea's death can make you more of who you are because Andrea became who they always wanted to be after the

diagnosis. Like, I feel very cutely the difference between who I am physically in the world and my relationships on the outside and then, like, who I want, know I am and want to be on the inside. Like, if you guys could see my insides, I'm amazing. Like such a really, really good person. There's this gap between. Not true. Well, I feel like Meg has told me many times that after the diagnosis, Andrea sort of became a completely integrated person,

meaning who they always wanted to be as spacious, as loving, as unafraid, as alive as they always wanted to be, they became after the diagnosis. Am I saying that right, Meg, that they just, like, the gap was gone? Yeah, exactly. And that's how I feel I've become more of who I am meant to be through knowing Andrea and through the film is because I want to love to stay soft when things are hard. and I want to be more open to friendship. And even when it's scary, I can just feel myself.

Like when I watched the film, because I've also seen it seven million times and Abby and I were talking about, the last time we watched it, I felt like I could see in real time, bad news would come in or something. And I could see in Andrea's initial reaction, Andrea's old self. You could see Andrea's body shut down or turn away from Meg because the news was so hard and because Andrea was scared. And then you could see Andrea reject that first knee jerk reaction and force themselves to stay soft and to turn towards Meg and to stay open-hearted. And it felt like that's how I want to be more of myself is to reject the first offer of my nervous system. in all scenarios and allow the more loving, spacious, brave self inside to live. I'm not surprised.

I'll just say this really quickly. We were on like a romantic getaway when we first came in contact with you, Meg, and Andrea. This is a few days after Glennon's therapist told her to go get all of Andrew's work. So we were on a romantic getaway. we were sitting at breakfast and I was eating breakfast with myself and Glennon and Andrea because Glennon just would not stop carrying around and reading their poetry. So it's kind of like a little annoyed. I'm like, all right, well, I'm just going to sit here, I guess, and just eat my breakfast

while you have your nose in a book at the table in public. It's Glennon sitting and reading Andrea's work and then Abby sitting there. watching her reading. Exactly. And so that prompted me to take this picture, to send it to DM it to Andrea, and then we started to actually have this back and forth online. Ever since Glennon started reading Andrea's work, it felt like to me there was somebody else out there that Glennon could see herself in. And I think that for a lot of Glennon's life, she looks out into the world and she can't

necessarily see herself in other people. And that's scary and feels lonely. And so it brought this like sense of maybe less loneliness for you. And then as it relates to like us and myself, we then and only then started talking about trying to define what enough was in our life. Because at the time we were in this like we, we, I think got into this like phase of our, our marriage and our work lives that we were just like kind of on the rat. wheel and we didn't know what was what we were doing this before in some ways. And it felt confusing. And it feels like as soon as Andrea and Meg came into our life, there was this requirement in some ways that we needed to start talking about what the fuck this is all for. Like,

what are we doing here? Like what is this? And a reengaging with the big questions of not just like our own questions with life, but like our own questions with our marriage, our own questions with our family. How do we want to live? Like, what do we want to be doing? It gave us this space to really actually start talking about some of these things that we kind of put on the back burner in some ways. And I think that doing that for us in our 40s has been really such a gift. And of course, that is making us way more of who we are meant to be. And I don't know. I just think about all of this and had it not been for that therapist who gave Glennon that advice to then Glennon reading it to the, you know, like there's all these weird little circumstances that

needed to happen in order for us to actually become friends, let alone TIG texting us and being like, hey, do you want to get on like a professional work call? Because I have this professional idea that I want to like throw your way and us being like, yes, like let's do that. I don't know. it's just there's an openness and a pull towards the yesness of life that Andrea is kind of always calling me into now. And then I just will say this one last thing. Meg, I think that you have made me more of who I am. Yes. In this really important way.

I mean, just a few months ago, you came and I have this sports podcast, welcome to the party. And I've been like in the thick of it trying to get it off the ground. And I was like so stressed. and I was just like, not myself. And you thank God, you said something to Glennon. Like, is she okay? I don't think I've ever seen Abby so stressed. Like, when Glennon relayed that to me,

it was like this really big wake-up call because it was like, right, of course, what am I doing? I'm creating this. There's no such thing as a podcast emergency, right? Like, let's be honest here, folks. So you have helped me. me become more of who I am also. I love you guys. And what you were just saying about like, if it wasn't for Glennon's therapist recommending this thing, in my mind, I was sort of taking it

further back because I was like, okay, Glennon's therapist, what happens before Glennon's therapist? It's an eating disorder. What happens before that? It's, you know, whatever leads to an eating disorder. Sarah was at the show at the Paramount because she was in a really difficult time in her life. Like, this is how it all lines up. And the ability for me now to say, okay, thank you, eating disorder. Thank you, Wyatt Sarah was there. Thank you for that grief because all of those things led to these moments. And for me, like such strong friendship and connection to you all that is,

still even in new in a way. And I don't even want to say new. It just still feels like the beginning of something that will be lifelong. And it reminds me of Andrew's philosophy of really finding gratitude for for everything and just sort of trusting being in the river of life, even when something seems like it's, you know, a wave that's going to knock you over or really hard to navigate. it is part of the process that is leading you to that most beautiful thing if you're not struggling against it, if you're if you're just with it. It's good. Every business I talk to is trying to figure out the same exact thing, how to actually

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Tell you a little bit about the song. Yeah. So after I got the email from Glennon and Abby about. joining the team. It was on a follow-up conversation, I think, with Ryan, Ryan White, the director, who said that Andrea had been trying, or the idea, one idea for the film was that there would be an original piece of poetry that was featured in the film. And I think by the time we were on board, they were, it just seemed like there had been like a, you guys, I didn't sleep lost. I don't have any words. Let's see.

There are words on a page. There's words on a page. There's words on a page. And we got them. Okay. So Andrea, instead of writing a completed poem, had been amassing couplets and stanzas and things weren't finished. And then Ryan said, you know, we have all this material.

Do you want to like see if there's something there? And Brandy Carlisle, also an executive producer on this film. It felt like a no-brainer to be like, well, let's see if there's a collaboration here. And so after watching the film for the first time, I was just like floored. I was just floored and opened up those documents and started just like kind of moving things around and adding a few little interstitial lines. but the only directive we got from Andrea was that they didn't want people to leave the film feeling downtrodden. They wanted people to leave full of love.

And they wanted it to be a love song for Meg. They wanted a love song about their love. And they wanted it to lift people up. And that felt like, especially after watching the film, you're like, well, that's, of course, that's the home run idea for that. And then it was very, very fast. It was just like, I don't even think it was two days of, you know, of writing a first draft, sending it to Brandy, going back and forth, getting, you know, feedback.

And then I don't know when the first time Andrea heard the song was. Do you know? Did it get sent to you guys? Or was it at? No, it was sent to us prior. And I remember us listening to it in the chemo room. And it being a really like, a different. day because Andrew was on a new drug and we were just like heavily monitoring their side effects and we had to be in the hospital for like 16 hours that day and it was really intense but we had the song and I took a video of Andrea you know laying in this hospital bed and their feet bopping along to the song just this subtle joy in their toes that you you brought to them. That's so sweet. I kept thinking.

about Andrea had mentioned the end of an Indigo girl song or there's the end of a song where they there's someone repeating a line sweet sweet sweet so that was very intentional and then I also loved that in the film when you at when you two are laying when it's the poster you know it's what ends up being the film poster and you two are laying on the ground with the dogs and you said what would I be how do my outsides match match my insides and the first word they say is sweet And it just felt like that was there is this sweetness about it and just about all of it, this gentle sweetness about the love. So yeah, that song has been just like a, I feel so lucky to be, I think about it as like

our little holy Trinity, me and Brandy and Andrea. Like, you have a song out there. That's so cool. You and Brandy decide between the father and son and we'll definitely call Andrea the Holy Ghost. Oh my God. That's so good. I mean, Sarah, you were just, like, how do we need another documentary, Ryan and Jessica, about everything that's happened since.

Like, I mean, Abby and I are sitting just crying in bed watching Sarah and Brandy perform this song in Madison Square Garden. Like, didn't that just happen yesterday? It's like so many miracles happen. We don't even mention them. Like, you were, didn't that just happen? It just happened on Valentine's Day. We sang Salt and Sour and the Suite at Madison Square Garden.

Sir Paul McCartney was in the audience. It was an important time. And then Meg sing still the one, which I think is from the most incredible scene from any movie that's ever been made from the film. So you just have to watch it. But Meg sang still the one with Brandy on stage. in front of 7 million lesbians with pictures of Andrea and Meg on the big screen on the side and no one was ever the same.

I mean, the stories. And Meg can sing, y'all. Meg can sing, and it's annoying. Like, what can't you do? The funny things, I mean, Sarah, you don't know this story, so I'm just going to tell it super quick. When that death dinner we had, when we, There was like 10 of us around a table, and we just started talking about death and didn't stop.

And it was like six hours. And our daughter, Tish, and a friend came home in the middle of it. And they were very polite children. So they sat down and tried to join the dinner. And this friend, I was just watching the friend like, oh, God, what do I do? Like, she did not know she couldn't eat. She couldn't chew. She just stood there, like, what is going on?

But they felt like they couldn't get up and leave. So they just sat there and listened. And so then the next morning, Tish comes into a room and says that, you know, had gone to bed just like eyes wide open, like what the fuck just happened? And then Tish tried to explain to her what was going on. Okay. And Tish was talking about Andrea and Tish kept saying they have cancer, they have this diagnosis, they da-da-da. And then her friend just kept sat there quietly and goes, I am so sorry that all of your mom's friends have cancer

because she kept hearing the they, they, they. So she thought that every, all 10 people at our table, like the moments of beauty next to the moments of absolute humor is why I think this has been the most joyful experience of life. For sure, for sure. My gosh. I think one thing I would love to leave people with is that the film does not end with Andrea's death, which is probably the best spoiler alert ever. Andrew did get to see the film and love the film.

But when Andrea did die seven months ago, allegedly, one of their final coherent sentences, and a lot of people were in the room to hear this was I fucking loved my life. And that line to me also feels like a call to become more of who we are, to think about, like, how can we live in a way that we get so lucky to say that as their final sentence? And Andrew was not a person who had it easy all through life. There are many ways that they had a very hard life. Sort of everything a person can go through. Andrea kind of went through, which I think is what made them such an empathetic and beloved writer because they could really speak to. so much of the human experience, but still to end and at only 49, but to be able to say that is something I hope people can take with them as well.

Well, if you haven't seen it, how do we tell people like Sarah's dad who don't know where to find things? Apple TV. You can go to your little Apple TV, right? Well, Apple TV, you don't have to have. Some people think Apple TV is like you need one of those little square boxes. It's just a streaming service, y'all. Okay.

Just like you have Netflix or Hulu or whatever else, it's just another one. And it's like, you know, 10 bucks a month, but you can get a free trial and cancel it. Sorry, Apple. I'm just going to tell her, I really want them to see it. But you might not want to cancel it because you might want to watch it again and again and again. Yes. Yeah. I love you guys so much.

I love you all so much. Thank you for this project isn't possible without you. I'm not possible without you. And thank you for being my caregivers now in so many ways. I love you so much. We love you so much. Thank you, Pod Squad. See you next time.

Thank you, Pottskud. Yeah, see you next time, Podsbrad. We love you. Wow, that's how this podcast would feel if someone with a completely regulated nervous system was hosting. We Can Do Hard Things is an. independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us at We Can Do Hard Things on Instagram and at

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