We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Our Parenting Advice: Raising Teens, Family Anxiety & Decision Fatigue

Episode Date: August 20, 2024

Amanda, Abby, and Glennon take your questions on raising teenagers, managing your child’s (and your own) anxiety, and decision fatigue. Discover:  -The delicate trapeze of parenting teens and how to create openness so your teens come to you when they’re in trouble;  -Why Glennon believes we should ditch the ‘story’ of our kids; and -Abby’s take on why the saying, “I’m proud of you,” can be harmful. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things, the place where we do hard things or we hardly do things, depending on what day it is. Today is a day that makes us so happy because it's the day that we talk to you. Let's jump into some glorious voicemails from these hilarious deep. Hi, Glennon, Abby and sister. My name is Patti and I have a question. I was wondering if you are ever gonna talk about

teenagers. Teenagers, I'm having such a hard time with my daughter. I just, I feel like I'm losing her. She ebbs and flows to me, but she's mostly gone. There's also this other vaping thing that's going on now with the teenagers. Like everybody's on this vaping thing because it's a cool thing.

So she comes up to me and says, mommy, I'm going to a party. She's 14 with my friends at school and I'm letting you know there will be vape. I am not gonna vape, but everybody around me is gonna vape. So I just said, okay, okay baby. That's what I said. But I'm just wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

I mean, I was not prepared for that. I always thought, oh, my daughter never. She's so sweet. Thank you so much. Your podcast is a life changer. Oh, Patty, I love Patty. I love Patty. I think Patty's nailing it.

I do too. She thinks that she's losing her daughter, but her daughter came to her and told her that there was gonna be vape there. Did you tell your parents that there was gonna be alcohol at parties? I lied so much. All I did was lie, all the lies, all the lies.

And then I would also like to talk for a second about the intellectual dishonesty of the shock when they found us in our lives. Like, I mean, my parents would drink at home. They'd be with their friends and they would drink. My dad would tell stories about how he drank like in all through high school. And then we'd lie and say we did nothing,

and then when we got in trouble, it would be like utter shock. Like, I can't believe it. Can you not? Can you not believe it? Like that just doesn't feel honest. It feels, you're right. It feels dishonest because it is.

Their shock, I think, I know that this is true for me, the shock and disappointment is the thing that they hung their hats on. I know for me that if they just, like they said, just really disappointed you, that was supposed to keep me in line. Well, I have been writing poems about the word liar

because I feel like parents who are shocked and angry that their kids are lying is so interesting. It's like being shocked that your kid is like breathing in air. I don't think it's an individual responsibility of a child to always tell you the truth. All they're doing is reading the room of what is acceptable that you have presented to them. That's right.

What are you telling me I should be saying in this context? Exactly. The amount of times that a child tries to tell the truth, they're just learning. They're learning their world. And so if a child tells the truth through their emotion, through their anger, through their words, through their whatever,

and the parents react horrifically to that, the child is learning, oh, I see, we lie here. So I don't think we should call kids liars. Like I think we should just call kids humans who are in a situation where they don't feel like their whole truth is safe. It's attachment theory shit, right? So Patty, freaking amazing that your daughter came to you

and said there's gonna be vape there. I mean, it's kind of funny too. It's just all quite funny. Are they smoking tobacco through vape or? Both. Or can you do both? You can do either or. Okay.

Yeah, so like some are weed and some are, it's like nicotine. And it's an equally horrific, nefarious attempt, again, from big tobacco to target children because a lot of the vapes- We're remarketing it now. Yeah, it was spun as safer, of course, as always, and then they all have flavors.

So they're like blueberry, rock and cherry. It's all marketed completely towards kids. You have cotton candy vape. Exactly. Oh, I'm pretty sure that was for a 12 year old child. Can we talk about the most important sentence in, I think, her question? The I'm just wondering if I'm doing the right thing?

No. I'm losing her. I just feel like I'm losing her. Yeah. And I think that that is essentially the most tragic thing about being a parent. Is that, that's the goal? Well, that is the reality.

Yeah. But I will say this to Patti. This is the thing I come back to as a parent of teenagers who, over time, a million times have felt like this is it. I'm losing them. Just by their energy, their vibe, they used to tell me they don't, all the different million things, is I think that the best approach that I have come up with is,

we must tolerate the ebbs and flows of losing them because that is individuation. That is what they have to do. with is we must tolerate the ebbs and flows of losing them because that is individuation. That is what they have to do. That is their developmental job is to try to survive on their own for what's coming. So it's the vibe of telling yourself over and over again that that is not only okay,

that means you're doing it as a parent. The fact that they can experiment with disappearing from you and needing you, it means you're doing it as a parent. The fact that they can experiment with disappearing from you and needing you, it means you're doing it right. So it's that tolerance with a steadfast commitment to they might leave, but I will not. Oof. Like a tree in the ground, their job is to throw at you

that they don't need you. Their job is fuck you, I love you. Like their job is go away, for God's sake, don't leave. The crisis is when a parent actually doesn't have the maturity to not take it personally. And to think they don't want me, so I'm not gonna show up for them. And we do that energetically, right?

But I think that if we can embody the vibe of, yes, that's your job, you go ahead and go, I am going nowhere. I am the touch tree that you can continue to come back to if you're gone for a day, a week, a year, whatever it is. That's how we've made it through. Yeah, well, I mean, you just actually, that helped me a lot right now,

because I'm actually feeling a lot of this with our kids right now, is just like the leaving, and I didn't get as much time, and so I'm holding on for my dear fucking life over here, and it is true, and I think that I can put more energy in the staying and not going anywhere than the worrying about the leaving. Because if you chase them, no, no, you gotta be a tree. You gotta be a tree, no chasing.

Roots don't run. So what you're saying is their job is to be alternatively lovey and an asshole because that's part of it. And so what you need to not get confused about their job is so when they're being an asshole to you or they're ebbing and flowing or how, Patti put it nicer, ebbing and flowing,

you're not reacting to that. You're just saying, oh, look, you're doing your job. I'm not reacting to that as if it's a personal affront to me. I'm just saying steady in my job and we'll be here. I am a tree. I am a tree. My teenagers are the weather.

Yeah. Like sometimes they're going to, they're going to shine on me. I'm not taking that to you personally because tomorrow they're going to storm on me, that there's going to be a tornado, but I am a tree and I am rooted and I am going nowhere. And one little thing that Glen and I started doing as a kid started to get old enough, we stopped going into their bedrooms at night to say goodnight.

And so we stay in our bedroom. And it was kind of hard at first, but eventually they started to come to our bedroom to say good night. And that's now our dynamic. We don't encroach on their space, but every single night these kiddos show up so that they can say good night and talk to us.

And then they tell us shit. Cause it's on their time. They've chosen it. This is a hack, I swear. And it works for everybody because Abby and I go to bed, we're in bed by 7 30. Like after dinner, I mean, that's weird, right? Trees are tired. Trees are fucking tired. And standing all day. Gotta lie down. And there's something energetic about teenagers being able to have their own. If I go into my kid's room, it's just like, everything

shuts down. It's like they're cooking meth in there. I don't know what they're doing that makes them so sketchy every time I walk in. It's like record scratch, like, it's like, oh God, I don't know. There's no nervous systems that are regulated when I walk into their bedrooms, right? But we just sit there in our bed and we watch our TV

and little every single night they trickle in, they tell us their things, they sit on the bed, they need their own agency and their own power to come to us. So there's something in there. And the dogs. And the dogs are there, oh God, if you don't have a dog in your race of teenagers.

Yeah, if you don't have a dog in your raising of a teenager, they express their physical hugs, need for physical touch with the dogs. It's a little bit more complicated with the older. Like I actually just hugged Tish as an experiment the other day. She came into the bed and sometimes I like lean over and I give them like fist taps

so they don't have to walk all the way around the bed to give me a hug. But this day Tish came in and I just was like, oh, I'm gonna hug her and not let go and see what she does. What'd she do? And so I hugged her, I embraced her and she goes, is everything okay? And I said, yeah, I was just seeing how long it would take

for you to notice that I'm just holding the hug. And then what did she say? And then she's like, you're really good hugger. She said, I needed that. Yeah. I know. Anyway, Patty, I don't think Patty needs our advice. I think Patty's crushing it.

Patty is a tree. Yeah. Patry. Patry. I know. And so I just said, okay, baby, that's what I said. I think that that's a great thing to do. Because also what she taught her daughter is that she is a safe place for the truth. That's all it was. Safe place for the truth. And to be clear, I'm not sure it was the whole truth. She said, everybody there is going to be vaping,

but not me. But what's more important, that she's not doing that or that she's sharing with her mom? She's testing the waters. I have one more teenage tip. She's testing the water. Can I hear it? I feel like this one's really important.

Okay, this is another teenage tip that we told our kids in a very confusing conversation. As they move into teenage world, we are their next best move. Okay, so like when they're in a situation and they have done a dumb ass thing that we have told them not to do a million times. Now that we are in teenage land,

what we are here for is for in every dumbass moment to be their best resource for how to make it better in the next moment, in the future moment. We are no longer going to go backwards with them. We are no longer going to say, you dumbasses, why did you do that thing that we told you not to do? We want to be your resource when you are sitting at that

party and your friend has had too much to drink and they're in trouble and you are in trouble. We want to be the call you make when you know that my parents are going to help me figure out how to make this better in the next step. And- There's so much shit goes wrong when they don't make that call and then they're in the circumstance and they are continuing to make wrong decision after wrong decision

because they don't have their wits about them. Because it's cyclical. It's like, it's the parents who are the quote unquote strictest are doing it in the light most favorable to them out of a real desire to protect their kid and have their kid not get harmed or not get in trouble or not get all of the bad things happen. But ironically, if you've made it so costly

to admit that you've done the bad thing, then they're not going to use you to get out of trouble. That's right. So you have to do what you're doing and say like, here are the ways for you to not get yourself in trouble. And when you do, I want to be the one that you call. We said, don't, like this is, when I say it's a confusing conversation,

it's intellectually dishonest. That's why it's confusing. But, it's intellectually dishonest. That's why it's confusing. But being human is intellectually dishonest, right? So parents who are just like that strict, it's like relying on abstinence in schools or like it's just, it doesn't work. It's not realistic. So basically-

It just makes the person teaching it feel better. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. By pretending like everything's so black and white. So basically our conversation is don't do that. If and when you do that, exactly. By pretending like everything's so black and white. So basically our conversation is don't do that. If and when you do that, right. So next Tuesday, will you do that? Because we know what it's like to be human

because we were it. But I do think that there's a version of teenage parenting where your kid gets in trouble and their first thought is one of two things. The last person I need to find out about this is my parent. Conversely, the only person who can to find out about this is my parent. Conversely, the only person who can help me with this shit is my parent. Exactly.

Cause we have mentioned like, look, we won't be upset if you come to us. If you choose not to come to us, and more shit happens because you choose not to come, that's when you're gonna be fucked. Like you get a pass, first go around, you'll get a pass. But if you fuck up two back to back things because you didn't come to us,

that's when you're gonna be really in trouble. And it won't even be with us. It'll just be with life. Like you'll just be fucked in general. We are your only intermediary between yourself and life right now. Use it wisely. But I feel like teenagerhood is when you really have

to embody the truth of what it is to be human. You can pretend they're not human until being teenagers. And then it's time to remove the abstinence program, the dare program from your curriculum, all of the things that don't work that have to do with shutting down human nature and just work with human nature. That's right. Although we do need to do an episode on fentanyl

because that is the one we have had very real conversations with our kids about that. About like how when mommy and daddy were growing up, you could experiment with the quote unquote, not bad drugs. Like you really could, it was fine, whatever. And that we are in a brave new world where like one experiment with that will kill you. So if you're gonna do that,

you need to do it from these kinds of places and not these kinds of places. So I think that is the trick of that. They actually can't be the same humans that we were in some respects because they could die in a hot second. So let's do a fentanyl one. There's ways around that too.

Our kids all have fentanyl tests. We have Narcan, which is the antidote to a fentanyl overdose. Lots of states are giving away Narcan for free. Yeah, you need Narcan. The fentanyl strips aren't always accurate though, so you have to be really careful with those. But we'll do a whole other episode on this.

Yeah. OK, cool. Love it. Let's hear from somebody else. Hi, Glennon, Abby, and sister. My name's Lauren. I'm a mother of five-year-old twin girls. One of them is very confident and never abandons herself

and is just very comfortable and confident in the person that she is. And then her sister is not as confident and is always looking outward to please other people. And so my question is how do I validate her and let her know that I'm proud of her, but also not make her a people pleaser. So thank you again for everything you do. Appreciate everything. Bye. Okay, I'm going to say what my reaction to the story and then you guys just do yours, which I think will be more logical. But my first thought when I heard Lauren say these things about her twins was that if Lauren were on my couch and she were my friend, I would say, can you just try throwing those

stories away about your girls? Can you just, even because when we just have a story about our kid, we are only seeing or looking for evidence that supports that story. And then we say that to them in a million different ways. We don't have to say it like this. We say it with our body. We say it in the way we react.

If I were Lauren, what I would do to try to detox myself from these stories that I've written about my girls is that I would tell myself the opposite ones. Yeah, that's good. I do that with the kids. I'm like, oh no, no, you're the athletic one, in my brain, not whatever. I wouldn't be as worried about the details of this.

What I would really be worried about is just maintaining these stories and what they will keep Lauren from seeing in each girl. And if the girls pick up on these stories about themselves, what it will do to them in the long run. That's good. And by the way, Lauren, I wanna say that because I've done this to all my children. So I'm not saying like, this is what I have learned

through personal experience that when we have stories about each kid that that helps them individuate it first and then fucks them because they feel like they have to stay inside this little box. And the other kids feel like they are not that thing. Yeah, and it's, I think from a human perspective, we all like to put people in our little categories and stories and boxes.

It makes us feel safer. And especially when we're raising kids, it also like, it gives you an orientation, like, oh, okay, so my kid's like this, so this is how I have to be, and this have to, I have to turn towards them, so I totally agree, like, I was labeled the athlete, and I've been trying to unwind from that label

pretty much since I started playing sports, because there's so much responsibility that I had to carry as this one thing. You identify with the thing and then you squash the rest. Would you think that's your single story? So like Lauren's first twin, if she finds out that her family thinks she's the confident one, she will squash forever

any sort of doubt, any sort of, because this is how she has earned her identity in the family. But that's not how humans are. No human is a story. Each of Lauren's twins are the whole shebang of the human experience. So if the confident one believes she's earning

her attachment through confidence, she will never admit to doubt, which is a very important part of being human and making good decisions. If the other one thinks she's a people pleaser, she will not find that inner confidence that she has as much If the other one thinks she's a people pleaser, she will not find that inner confidence that she has as much as the other twin. So see, what do you think?

Not for nothing, I mean, I trust Lauren. And so she's saying that the one that's a people pleaser is looking outwards. I just wonder, it would be interesting to play with that story and be like, are we sure that that's the case? Because it could be that the one who presents as confident has determined and rightly so, that that is what is more pleasing to her mother.

Right. And which we can see by this because Lauren's worried about the other one that isn't presented that way. So it's not always clear that the presenting symptom is actually the crux of the problem. The one that's quote unquote most confident and outgoing could be doing that precisely because it is pleasing. Absolutely.

And the other one could be actually most comfortable in her own skin and doesn't give a shit that the other one's hustling so hard to be so pleasing to other people. But the only way that you make sure that that's the case is by not making a hierarchy of those. By not being like, this one's better and this one's. Exactly.

This one is the aspirational one and this one is the. And I also think I have two things to say. One, I think in terms of the people pleasing piece, it's hard because you want them to live from the inside out, not the outside in. That's at least how I want our kids to experience their lives in the world. It's just not always possible.

Like- We're real, yeah. Yeah, we are always, and I speak for myself as a people pleaser, I'm in therapy now trying to orient, to trying to figure out, okay, where does this thing start? Where does the energy start? I want it to start from inside.

I don't want it to be outside in. And that's my personal journey, my personal work. And so I don't think it necessarily needs to be classified as like a not as good as the confident piece. That's just like one thing. My second thing is, I think we have to be very careful with the word or the statement, I'm proud of you to our children.

That really jumped out to me. And what a huge responsibility that is to put on our children. Because when you say, I'm proud of you, what that then gets interpreted in the body and the mind of this child is, oh, I just did something that made my parent proud. In and of that statement is a people pleasing request.

You are saying to your kid, I am requesting that you please me. And I will tell you when you have pleased me with these words, I'm proud of you. And so I think that we have to be very careful when we use that word. And I really try to, I talked to Glennon about this a lot. When Emma walks off the soccer field

and she's had a great game, I'm just like, wow, I'm so happy for you. I am so happy for you that that game happened and that moment happened or that play happened. And I don't always get it right because it's so, it's just like at the tip of my tongue because I do have pride in me because I'm a human and I have an ego and I'm like,

fucking my kid just killed it on that field. I have it in me, but I think we have to be very careful at how we communicate that with our kids because it is a responsibility that they will carry forever, which is in turn, we don't want our kids to be living their lives so they can make us proud. That is not why we- And the converse of that is true.

The veiled threat is, well, I know I killed it out there and therefore you're proud, which means if I have a shitty game next week and I come off the field, you have to not be as proud as that. So I've started saying, trying to do that because of what you always say about proud, is that, and my kids are different,

so it's not like the same thing. It's not like one thing is going to apply to all of them. I can't just have a meter where it's like, this is good and this isn't, and this is pride and this isn't. So I've just started saying like, if they have a test or something, they'll tell me, oh, I got an X score.

And I'll just say, how do you feel about that? Yes. Like not reacting if it was like a 10 out of 10 or a six out of 10. And for one kid, it might be like, I feel good about the six out of 10. I'll be like, awesome, great. And the other one might get a nine out of 10

and be like, I don't feel good about that. And I'll be like, man, that's tough. So I'm reacting to their response to their own thing instead of an arbitrary like, this is my personal response to their own thing instead of an arbitrary like, this is my personal response to your grade? That's weird. It's weird. It's like, it's a revelation of values.

So every time a parent says, I'm proud of you, what they mean is I have a value, a personal value that you have just met. And that in itself is what attachment is, right? It's like, oh, that thing I do makes my mom, matches what she thinks is important. I don't think it gets the kid to understand what they think is important.

And everything is reaction. I mean, this reminds me of, Emma, she's just got a certain grade on a group project and she was delighted with the grade. She got, did I tell you the story? She got- Oh, but I'm laughing because I know it from my own home. Yeah, so she got on a call with the group,

her group at school, which she thought was gonna be celebratory. And she said, mom, they said, we got an 89. What are we gonna do about it? And Emma thought, Mom, they said, we got an 89. What are we going to do about it? And Emma thought, get cupcakes. I don't know. But she just couldn't believe how differently people could receive the same information, which

is really important to remember. Because they all went home and their parents were like, we are not proud. Yeah, and we were like, oh, that sounds, 89 feels like so many number. That's so much out of 100. Yeah. So the point being, that's why that question of yours

is so brilliant because it is calling forth an internal reaction in your kid and then helping support that as opposed to blessing it in line with my values or not. It's very cool, Sissy, I love it. And to be fair, the answer is usually like, huh, huh. Yeah, right. You know, it's not like I'm calling forth a hell of a lot.

Listen, you're not responsible. You're not responsible for bringing it forth. That's their f-ing business. You have called it, you have called it, and that's all you can do. I give you a D minus on your bringing forth. Yeah, and I don't know if people have seen this out there, but I've seen some videos online about it,

and I think about this all the time, that when your kid comes home from a test and they're talking about the grade no matter what it is, complimenting their effort as opposed to their intelligence, especially when they're super young, it enables them to understand. If you tell a kid that they're smart when they're young, they'll work less hard. If you tell a kid, I really loved how hard you worked, if they worked really hard for it, they will actually, I think, develop the skills because they get reinforced with the work ethic

rather than just, oh, I'm smart. They are afraid of revealing that they're not smart, which is even scarier than the not working hard. Because their kids who view themselves as really smart, are very, very much in danger of not challenging themselves. Because they know when they do a harder thing, they are more likely to fail at it initially.

And they don't want to fail because, and the studies have shown this, because then it will confirm to the people who've been telling them they're smart that they were wrong about that. And they will challenge themselves. Yes, that's why I won't go on. So when you make it about effort,

they will challenge themselves. That's why I won't go on Celebrity Jeopardy. I'm like, if people tell me that they like me because I do wild things that make no sense and are outside of my comfort zone. If that is what people, maybe I would have been like, okay, I'll go on Celebrity Jeopardy. No, no, no, no, no.

What people tell me is some things and some people think I'm smart. I'm not gonna go on Jeopardy and prove that I don't exactly know where any countries are. I can't lose that identity, which keeps me sometimes from doing things that would actually make me smarter. It's good.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey there, I'm Kendra Adachi and my show, The Lazy Genius Podcast, helps you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't, and you get to decide

what matters. I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm here to give you a new way to see. Episodes of The Lazy Genius Podcast are full of compassionate time management tips and permission slips to do what makes sense for you. New episodes drop every Monday. Let's listen to the next one. Hi Glennon and Abby and sister. My name is Heather and I didn't know if you all have any advice for what I think many people are calling the parenting decision fatigue and this super complicated risk assessment

you have to do for the most trivial of choices for your kids from everything from school to getting together and it's just exhausting. I'm just downright weary of the need to make these risk assessments on an hourly basis as a parent. I know I'm not alone. I'm just so tired and I didn't know if you all have any advice. Oh, Heather. Oh, I am with you. Yes.

Are we a little out of this? I think we're maybe not as much in this moment as sister is because I think when they get a little older, they're doing a lot of their own risk. What is your reaction to this, sister? I feel like we're just entering it. I feel like I'm at the precipice of it. And I feel like Heather might be right smack in the middle

of where my kids are and your kids are, because it's developmentally appropriate that they do different things farther away from you for longer periods of time that are inherently more risky. And what is, where's the line between letting them fly and being aiding and embedding their undeveloped brains to do dumb stuff. So I get that.

It's weird to allow your kids to do things that you know aren't good ideas. Here's the other thing, Heather, and this is something that Glenn and I have been talking about a lot recently. And it's this idea of... Oftentimes, there's a parent who really thinks about the full-on risk. And then there's another parent who doesn't maybe think about it as much.

And one of the things that happened is that I came into the kids' lives a little bit later. And so Glennon took on taking on the risk assessment for the family and she was beautiful at it. And I think as time goes on, you just get fucking exhausted. It's the, you know, this parenting decision fatigue, but I came on board and I was like, Oh, parenting's about this risk assessment. Like I have to be constantly making this risk assessments, but Glennon has been going through it for so long that I think that you are a little

desensitized to the risk assessment, especially as they've gotten older. And I don't know if you would agree with that. No. So are you taking it on more Abby? I think that I have been, and it's not because, and maybe it's not because you're desensitized, maybe you're just like allowing them to individuate better than I am. No, it's because I have reordered in my head

what risk assessment is. It's because when they're little, for me, risk assessment was risk of outer danger. Cars, seat belts, strangers, risk of injury, risk of whatever. Now I weigh all the time psychological risk of control. Because there's a way you can go, a road you can take, which is my job as a parent is to minimize

the outer world's risk to my child. And that is where we get Rapunzel and Tangled and the wicked mother who's like, you know, keeping her child away from the entire world. So I've just added to my risk assessment, the risk of over controlling them and what that will do to them psychologically, what that will do to my relationship with them.

My risk is just widened. If you think I'm relaxing for one second, you don't know your wife. I've just added more risks to my relationship with them, my risk is just widened. If you think I'm relaxing for one second, you don't know your wife. I've just added more risks to my risk assessment. She's just layered too. It's a little bit like Patty, when we were talking about the risk of me coming down so hard and making all of these things totally illegal

to you is that you won't come to me when you need help. Exactly. The risk always turns and comes back on itself. There's no black and white. There's no, oh, OK, I can choose to keep you sheltered from the outer risk. There's no risk to that. There's also risk to that.

Yes. Can I ask you a follow-up question? Yes, please. So OK, this is very interesting. I have never thought of it like that, like you just explained it, like the risk of over-controlling our teenage kids. So my question is, do you loosen the need to consider

or think about or ruminate about the physical risk, the cars, that risk assessment of what the world can do to them. Do you loosen your thought process on that because you know that I'm covering it? Probably a little bit maybe, but what I want you to know about my personal approach as a parent of teenagers who are out in the world

doing dangerous things, who are in cars, who are out at night, who are at schools where we're in a country where we will not protect schools or teachers or students from gun violence. From all of the risks that they're involved is that my entire strategy is to just fucking go dead inside. Like, I'm serious. I'm not trying to be cute.

I'm not trying to like, I make the decision. I know that I cannot live out of fear. I know I have to let you walk out the door. Internally, I am not handling that well. I have no strategy for making it okay. I feel like terrified and sick inside and angry that I live in this world where I have to be so scared all the time.

Like that's my strategy. And knowing that I this world where I have to be so scared all the time. Like that's my strategy. And knowing that I, yes, I have to, because this is their world, their life, like we can't repunzel them. So I'm overriding my own terror and anxiety. And in that way, a little bit, instincts, although I must have a deeper instinct than fear that knows, because if my truest instinct was keep them repunzled, that's what I would be doing.

So I must have an instinct that's deeper than the fear one. Yeah, the only thing more damaging to them than sending them out into a terrifying dangerous world would be locking them up away from it. Is not sending them into a terrifying dangerous world. And that's why it's fatigue, right? It's fatigue. Overriding all of those feelings,

it's not just the decision making process. It's the exhaustion that comes from the inner turmoil of knowing like, oh God, this is scary and bad and terrible things could happen and okay, go anyway. Yeah, and I think something that's really important as it relates to Glennon and I, that I experience, and this is so helpful for you to have explained it that way,

because I get it, I agree. I just can't let go, because both of us can't let go. I don't think you ever have to worry about me letting go. That's not my strong suit. No, I know, but like what you're saying is, and I think a lot of people in relationships who have children might feel this way, that we might be polarized about this,

that one person is taking on this mentality and the other is taking on this mentality. And it feels, I feel jealous of you. I get that. And it feels exhausting because it feels like I'm doing it alone and I wanna meet somewhere in the middle. Do you feel like you're carrying more of the burden

of like logistics about things? What exactly are you saying? I think that I worry more about the doomsday possibilities than you do. Wow, I never thought anyone would say that to me. I feel I love it. Like I am- I know that's really good. Like. Wow, I never thought anyone would say that to me. I feel, I love it. Like I am like. I know that's really good.

Like in the middle of the night, you don't know this, but in the middle of the night, I go to the bathroom at like two or three o'clock every night. And when I know the kids have been out and they've been out past the time that we've actually gone to sleep, every time I come back to my phone,

I look at my phone and make sure that they are where they said they were supposed to be. And that's like, that's just like an unconscious thing that I do. And then the problem is, is that like when something comes to me, I sometimes have this negative, because I'm operating my brain and my heart and my body is operating almost from this worst case scenario place. And so when I come to them with a solution or they come to me with a problem, I'm already ready, I've got armor on rather than softness. And that changes the way that I parent with them.

So I wanna be able to have softness and playfulness and joy rather than worry and fear and like, you know, like they're starting to drive and like there's friends and they, you know, drinking and stuff. And it's like, my mind just, I'm like, I don't know. I feel like I'm hardcore parenting over here in my mind. Not that you're not.

Yeah, you're standing on the wall. That's it. Yeah, you're standing on the wall. That's it. You're defending. Yeah. Well, I feel like probably there is a level of what you're saying that like maybe part of me does understand that you're gonna be getting up

and watching and so I don't have to. Like I think what you're talking about is mental load. Yeah. And I think that the truest, most honest answer to that is yeah, probably. If you weren't doing what you were doing, then maybe I wouldn't have as much freedom to think about the other side of risk.

And one way of thinking about it, we're both analyzing risk and we are balancing each other out. Because if we were both like you, our kids would be fucked. And if right now both of our kids were like, if we were both like me, our kids would be fucked. Totally. My both of our kids were like if we were both like me our kids would be Fucked so totally my therapist said Wow, that's so beautiful. You guys are covering so much ground. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's a great way It's so beautiful. You're covering so much ground. You're making this such a big wide breath

But but maybe you guys can meet somewhere in the middle rather than being polarized So interesting. I didn't even, I mean, it's helpful to me. I didn't know that we were polarized about this. Like I literally did not know this. This is new information to me. I know we were talking about it a couple of days ago about something different, but I think it applies.

Yeah. So maybe after this, you can ask Gabby what else you're polarized about. Yeah. I can't. I can't, because we already had that conversation apparently. Oh, okay. All right. This is Polarization Part 2. Two point out. Hi, this is Alyssa and I have a question about anxiety. I have anxiety.

I've always had it. And now I can tell that my son, my five-year-old son also has anxiety. I can see when it pops up for him. I can see when it's building. I can see it kind of take over. And I'm not sure what to do. I know how to handle anxiety or I know how to attempt to handle anxiety, but it's like I've put him in this club that I don't want him to be in.

So just curious if you have any advice or I don't know tips on how to help him handle anxiety and how to help me handle my guilt about this. I'm just kind of at a loss for what to do. Thank you so much. I really appreciate y'all. You help me feel a little less alone in my crazy parenting. Thanks. Can I just say one thing? Cause I don't have, I feel like you might be able to talk a little bit more about this.

Please. The only thing I'll say. I'm looking at you two with your anxiety. I don't know. She's got, I mean. I've got it. I didn't know it, but I've got it. It's just, I express it very differently.

Yep. I've got it. It's just, I express it very differently. Yep, I've got it. One thing I will say is, it's a question back to Alyssa. Who do you blame for your anxiety? Because I think that that can help curb some of the guilt. Like it's not- I was wondering the same thing. I totally understand that initiating your kid into a club

that you don't want them to have to be in and you feel like it's your fault for doing it and that sucks. And at the same time, if Alyssa is anything like our generation where I feel like everything was individually like, that's your problem, you're a crazy person, that has nothing to do with us, your family members. So if her son has the benefit of being able to commune with his mom and they share that together, then that is already like 10 steps ahead

of where Alyssa probably was of like, oh, I have this, you don't have to be scared of yourself. Mommy has it too, I can see it in you. I know it stinks, it stinks for me, but also your brain is like mine. And this is how we work, and let's figure it out. And so I think that the guilt might be getting

in the way of being an ally and a friend to your kid in owning your thing and talking about it. I mean, I talk to my kids all the time about anxiety and about how it feels. And I never had the benefit of that. I didn't know I had anxiety until I was 40. I just thought that that was life and I was weird and high strung.

And so that sucks. Like think of how beautiful it is to that. The fact you can see this in your five year old. I wish someone had seen it in me. Like, that's already a beautiful thing that you can notice it. And this is like super tactical. But one of the ways that it has helped in my family is a lot of the IFS language,

like actually naming the part that like, oh my, like there's actual names in my house, like perfectionist Patty or worry Walter, whatever, whatever. And knowing like, well, this part is saying this to me and making me feel like I have to do this one thing. And this other part is super worried about me trying this thing.

And then they're able to actually figure out, well, do I have motivation? What is my motivation to not listen to those parts? Do I even have one? And if there's like a goal or something, I really want to be able to sing in front of those people. Okay, if I want to be able to do that, do I want that so much

that I wanna help give these parts of me the proof that I'm gonna be okay? And that's how we talk about it. They're protecting you, because that's their job. And so we have to little by little show them proof that you're gonna be okay as you work towards this goal that you have or this value that you have. And so our job is to present that proof to them

so that they can find another job when they know they don't have to protect you from this. And that proof is like in little ladder moments. Like maybe if you wanna sing in front of all those people, maybe you could sing in front of me and daddy for a little bit, okay? Okay, that's a little proof for little Warrie Walrus over there.

And then once they're all settled, then they get quieter because they have the proof they need. So I don't know, that might be, that's been super helpful in our family. That's so fucking helpful to me right now. That's really helpful. You're such a good mama. I'm so proud of you.

I just think we should mention that really, the theme of these questions is like, okay, if we're not gonna take pride in something about our kid because that's just a matched value, then maybe we just look at the flip side of that and we don't claim guilt about something about our kid because that doesn't match the value that we want for them.

Like, that's just a story, right? And it's using our kids to be either a referendum on our goodness or our badness. Yeah. Or either like a reflection of us as amazing or proof that we are shit. Yeah, and I think that like, that Alyssa, her son is still five, so she doesn't know yet that Alyssa, this kid's gonna do so much weird shit that you're gonna be like, where did that come,

like our children have, I'm gonna say three anxious parents, I think Craig would be cool with me saying, we are not chill. We have a kid who couldn't find anxiety if you packed it up in a box and handed it to her. Like she, so how did that happen? The anxiety in one of them is no more our reflection than the non-anxiety in the other one. Like it's the opposite of pride.

It's like looking at your kid without story and with beginner's mind. Because honestly, Alyssa, this is not helpful, but give me some anxious people. It's easier to chill people out than to tell people who don't care to care about things. So even- to chill people out than to tell people who don't care to care about things. So like even Yeah, they should have a diagnosis for the opposite of anxiety. What is it like passionate

apathy? Exactly. What is the word? Give me Alyssa's kid. I can work with that. You know, I just even the revelation that people shouldn't be anxious. So I should feel guilty about that. What does that say? Are you sure? Like I think Alyssa's kid is probably tuned in to this crazy planet we're living on. Yeah, these five years have been a real bust.

So Alyssa's kid is like, this is fucked y'all. But do you know what I mean about like even worrying about that? Like I understand worrying about that. I'm in mental health. I get it. But there is an element of looking at these people as not killing it or failing and just

that they're revealing who they are. It's like that idea of parenting as expectation list. Like they should be this and this and this and this and this and this and this. And if they don't have the check mark, I'm failing. As opposed to like embodied parenting probably, which is like throwing the outer structure and the checklist away and just thinking of your kid

as like a treasure chest. They are revealing theirself to you, you are reacting to that, they are not reacting to your list. I think that that's one of the most important things about all of the pod squatters today. Like Patty, Lauren, Heather, Alyssa, the fact that you are all even having this question bubble

come into your mind like, huh, I wonder about this, makes me know that you're doing parenting a little bit probably different than your parents parented you. And a little bit different than their parents parented them. And like that is all your kid could ask for,

is a parent who's conscious of their actions, of their responses, of their children, the kid's behavior, and just finding a little bit of fucking curiosity in the treasure chest of your child. And how awesome is it to have these little human beings, though, whether we wanna believe it or not, I do think some of us have kids to learn more about ourselves,

to feel a little bit better about ourselves. It's not just so that we can grow people. It's like, it's an expression. We're trying to figure out the shit that's happening on our insides. And Patty, Lauren, Heather, Alyssa, I think that that's what this is all about. All of your questions are about you trying to figure out

more what's happening on your insides. And though I just think that that's the most beautiful part about parenting is like it's been my greatest teacher of myself. Yeah, it's like we look at a kid and we say, how do we fix this problem? Instead of asking ourselves, why do I even think that's a problem?

Yeah. It's a really cool way to cultivate what is super hard to find, which is self-compassion. Because if Alyssa looks at her beautiful son with anxiety and can have compassion for him and his struggles and what he's going through and seeing how hard it is to deal with all those big emotions, then perhaps Alyssa can take inventory of herself

and her entire life where maybe she didn't even have anybody seeing her in her struggles and say, wow, the same compassion and understanding that I have for him, I deserve that my whole life. That's right. Yes. And I was struggling just as hard and good for me. And in the universe's brilliant specificity, And this is just all from personal experience.

If Alyssa can do that, if she can find a way to look at her unruly, uncontrollable, unpredictable child and find any peace there, then that is the cure for her anxiety. and find any piece there, then that is the cure for her anxiety. That's so good. That's it. Her son is just representing every single thing she's never ever been able to fix or control,

life itself. So here comes the universe with this beautiful experiment where she gets to do it person to person. That it's no longer about life in general, it's about this little life. And so the cure for her own situation is in that relational moment between her and her son.

Lovebugs, we think that you are freaking amazing. Thank you for sending us these beautiful questions. You get us thinking and feeling more deeply than you know. Keep sending us your advice cues. Keep them under a minute because that's the way that we can play them. And we'll keep doing these. Yeah, 747-253-07.

747-200-5307. And this one was a lot of parenting stuff, but tell us what you want advice on. Just all kinds of, we don't really have answers. We have more questions and responses for you. But yes, one minute so we can play it and what advice are we all looking for? Let us know.

747-200-5307. See you next time. Bye bye. Bye bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things, first, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

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and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz. I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. I made sure I got what's mine And I continue to believe That I'm the one for me And because I'm mine, I walk the line

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map A final destination we lack We stopped asking directions To places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring We can do our thing

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start I'm not the problem sometimes things fall apart You too believe the best people are free And it took some time, but I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that We've stopped asking directions To places they've never been We need to know we'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring We can do our thing We're adventurers and heartbreaks on map We might get lost but we're okay now We stopped asking directions To places they've never been And to be loved we need to be wrong We'll finally find our way back home

And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things Yeah, we can do hard things