We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - PARENTING: How do we make this thrilling, terrifying roller coaster ride a little bit easier?

Episode Date: July 27, 2021

1. The 5 things Glennon wishes she’d known during those early days with young kids. 2. Why it’s important to let our kids see us mess up, cry, and lose it every once in a while. 3. How to let go of Expectation Parenting and embrace Treasure Hunt Parenting. 4. On teaching kids the most important lesson: How to disappoint everyone else (including you) before they disappoint themselves. 5. Why if you’re listening to this podcast worried about how you’re parenting, things are likely already okay. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Thanks for showing up. Today, we're talking about parenting. So a lot of you know my story, how I became a parent.

19 years ago, I found myself on a cold bathroom floor, holding a positive pregnancy test, shaking from terror and a vicious hangover. I was so broken, so alone, I'd been an addict for a decade and a half at that point, and as addicts often do, I'd burned every bridge in my life. I just remember thinking there could not be any worse candidate for motherhood on Earth than me. And yet I so badly wanted to become this one's mother. It was the first thing I ever wanted more than I wanted to be numb. And I stayed numb because being human just felt too brutal

to survive. It all, all of it just hurt too much. But that day staring at that test I realized that there was beauty to be had too. And that if I wanted this beautiful thing called motherhood I was gonna have to accept the brutal too. That life was, both or nothing. So that day, I got sober. I decided to open myself up to love, to annihilation, to come back to a beautiful life. My son Chase was born eight months later.

He is the boy who brought me into the world. When Chase was a toddler, Craig lost his job, and I was teaching, but money was tight, so we moved back in with my parents to my childhood home, just as the 17-year cicadas arrived in Virginia. If you have not experienced the cicadas arrival, it's as if you wake up one morning and the entire world is covered in a layer of black and the air is filled with a sharp screeching sound, like a constant alarm. I was terrified. Chase was enchanted. He begged to go for walks and he'd stop every three seconds and bend over and pick up a cicada and pet it with his eyes wide and all lit up. And I would walk beside him with my smile frozen on my face,

trying to keep my hand steady so I could hold his. I was just desperately trying to hide my fear because I didn't want him to catch it because I wanted him to love the world, to live in awe of the world instead of in fear of it. I just wanted him to live less afraid than I did. When Chase was three, his sister was born, and then when he was five, his other sister was born, and all beautiful hell broke loose.

Those days of three little ones at home were the most holy and hardest of my life. Every day was far too much and not even close to enough. I was somehow constantly both completely overwhelmed and thoroughly underwhelmed at the same time. I so loved being needed and yet I was oversaturated by touch and other people's needs and every day was a lonely eternity. And then this very weird thing kept happening back then. I'd be in Target, dripping with the children, just trying to buy diapers and get the hell out of there. And I'd be in the checkout line, and a kind looking older woman would stop her

cart and look at us for a long moment. And then while the kids were screaming for candy and climbing on my head like monkeys and I was panic sweating. She'd say to me, oh honey, these are the best days of your life. It goes by so fast. Enjoy every moment. And I try to smile and say thank you, but my heart would drop every time.

There was something about that that made me feel so guilty and say thank you, but my heart would drop every time. There was something about that that made me feel so guilty because those days, those early days, they didn't feel like they were going by fast. They felt like eternal groundhog days, many of which I found myself crying alone in the bathroom. And so it always made me feel like great. So not only am I clearly doing this all wrong, but now I'm somehow missing the best years of my life. These are the best years of my life. And is it not enough to just try to be a decent mother, but now I also have to make sure

I'm enjoying every sweaty moment. I vowed if I made it to Chase as adulthood, I would never be those ladies in Target. I'd remember how hard it all was. I'd remember the beautiful, excruciating reality of parenting young kids. I'd remember that parenting young kids is like climbing Mount Everest. You don't have to smile or enjoy every moment of the climb. You just got to stay hydrated and keep climbing.

I remember one afternoon, watching two-year-old Chase Pet, one of those God-awful cicadas with his chubby dimpled hand and thinking, whoa, the next time these cicadas come, he'll be 18. My little boy will be 18 years old. And I remember that felt like a fairy tale. No way. We will be this forever.

So, the cicadas are back. Last week, Chase graduated from high school. His hands are no longer dimpled and chubby. He has the elegant hands of a writer, often dirty from tending to his many plants. He is a creator and a nurturer. He is an awe of the world he is about to go out into. He is less afraid than I am. It went by so fast.

Parenting is like a roller coaster. The first decade is so slow. Every day, climbing that hill just tick, tick, tick. And then, you're at the top of the hill. It's the crest. It's maybe around 10 years old. And then, war. All done. Down the hill, the car jerks, and you're in the station, and you look up, and they're walking out. Chase and I have been roller coaster partners since that day on the bathroom floor when he invited me back to life.

And the car is stopped now. He's climbing out of our cozy car and walking away and I'm still in the car watching him go. And you probably assume that now is when I tell you how we're supposed to deal with this gorgeous lucky heartbreak and you would assume wrong. I don't know. I am Elsa this month. I have frozen my heart so I don't die from feeling all of this. And I know I'm the one who told you to feel it all, but what can I say? I am a human. I contain multitudes. But here's something I can do. There are many of you listening who are just starting this ride

Who are parents of little ones who still woke up this morning too early to dimple little hands in your faces and morning cartoons You're just climbing onto the roller coaster. Just getting strapped in in those eternal early days crying in the bathroom occasionally, maybe. Every time I see you in the target lines, kids screaming and melting down and climbing on your heads like monkeys, I send you love and strength and solidarity. I never tell you to enjoy every moment.

But if we had time, there are a few things I'd tell you. Like it gets better. There are far better times than these coming. Like you will get your life back. You're still in there. And other things I wish I'd known during those early days. So I'm gonna tell you some of those things now. Let's begin. I'm excited for this conversation today. I don't know exactly where it'll go, but I do know that I have three kids who are, let's see, their ages change every year and there's three of them, so it's really hard to know this, but one is 18, one is 16.

15. Oh shit. Okay, wait, let me start over. Chase is 18, Tisha's 15, and Emma is 13, nailed it. Okay, and then sister, you have, I have Bobby who is turning nine in next month and Alice who is turning seven next month. So we have a very different, we're in different phases, really different phases. And so I think it's going to be fun to talk

to you about these things. So I just in preparation for this conversation, I just was thinking of what five things would I tell young moms or dads about parenting little ones. And it's funny when I look over these, I realize none of them are about kids. Like none of them are about how to make your kids smarter or better or whatever. They're all just for the parents who I feel like need more support and goodness and kindness and grace than even the children do. So they're really just about how to do the hard thing of parenting and make it a little bit easier, I think. That's golden, right? You're gonna talk about how to do the hard thing of parenting and make it easier.

I think so. This should be the most popular episode. We'll see. The first thing I kept thinking about, I was on my walks, you know, I take a walk every day, my quiet time, it's my beast-still time, where I just listened to myself. And I kept thinking of this idea that when I first became a parent, I thought that I had to

be what I would call this perfect parent, which basically just means it was like this parent who never showed any weakness or never lost their temper or never just was like an Android. Basically, you know, it was always perfectly even tempered and never got sad and never got tired and was just this um, stefford parent, right? And every time you made a droid sister, you made a droid. What's an Android? What's an Android is like the opposite of an iPhone.

But you could have been like an Android too, that would have been fine. Okay, so whatever is a robot. Yes, Android. Whatever word means robot. These are not the droids you're looking for. Okay, okay, a droid. So I don't know, I just feel like we got that this kind of memo, my parenting generation, that was just like, here's this

version of parenthood, and this mother is always calm and always smiling and always loving and always giving and was an energizer bunny and never lost it and didn't have any human needs and just kind of cease to exist. And I guess just wasn't human anymore. You know that once you became a mother, you weren't gonna be human anymore. And at some point I realized, oh wait, but I'm raising people who are fully human.

So isn't the job of parenthood not to be perfect or this Robot version of human but actually to show with your being in your life and how you deal with shit Showing your kids how to deal gracefully With being fully human Right because at some point these kids are going to with being fully human, right? Because at some point these kids are going to wake up one day and understand that they are fully human,

they're gonna have anger, they're gonna have rage, they're gonna have doubt, they're gonna get tired, they're gonna screw up, they're gonna, and if we haven't shown them how to do that out loud, they're gonna feel shame and alone. So it's like they might feel great about us if we're trying to be perfect people for them, they might be like, oh, my mom's perfect, but they're going to feel like

crap about themselves when they realize that they in fact are fully human. Yes, not prepared. It's like we think, it's like when we get this baby, we think of it like a little mound of clay and we're potters and it's spinning around and around. And we think if we mess it up, if we do anything, if we make any wrong moves, we're gonna like indent the clay or we're gonna, and then they'll just have that forever and we've ruined the thing that came to us perfect.

But it's not clay, it's a person. Yeah, exactly. That's a better way of looking at it. But that's how I always feel. I'm always like, well, that's gonna be with him for a minute. Yeah, it's like forever. It's like we are, we think we're potters shaping clay. And so my brilliant genius expert parenting advice

is to tell parents they're not clay. They're humans, like a hundred percent they're human beings. So they're gonna feel all the things, they're gonna make huge mistakes, they're gonna like try and fail. All the things that you feel every day, they are going to feel every day. So why not let them see you mess up. Let them see you apologize.

Let them see you cry. Let them see you lose it every once in a while. And apologize. Like all of that is okay, right? It's actually maybe a relief to a kid to feel her insides and understand that her parent also has those same insides. And isn't hiding any of it so they in fact don't have to hide any of who they are. Yeah. It's all okay. I mean, I screw up so much and apologize so often that I think I told you this last week. So Chase, he's 18 now. I think we've established.

I did something dumbass. I don't know. I lost my temper or something. He was in his room later and I was just walking up the stairs and I didn't even get to his room yet and he yelled out the room. It's okay, mom. It's okay. It's cool. We're good. He's like, are we gonna have to talk about it again? Yeah, but like they know the pattern. Like here she

comes. She's gonna apologize. It's I don't know. I just think Abby and I had a moment early on where she wanted to apologize to Emma and she didn't know we could do that because she didn't have parents who did that. Like that you were supposed to be invulnerable. You were supposed to. And I was just a collegeized ama and she didn't know we could do that. Because she didn't have parents who did that. Like that you were supposed to be invulnerable, you were supposed to. And I was like, oh no, do it. Like that's the good stuff. It's so true because so many people of our generation grew up in this way. It's almost like if you were to say, like somehow your authority or parenthood is derived from this, what I say is true and what I do is gospel that we think that we're somehow undermining that very precarious role because none of us know what the hell we're doing. So it's like we're trying to pretend we know what we're doing

so much that if we ever admit we didn't know what we were doing, that it's like a house of cards and it all falls down. That's it. Because if that's what you have in your mind that a parent should be, you will live that way, right? But what if a parent is just someone who's walking, you know, in front of this other human, just a little bit further down the road, just trying to show them how to forgive yourself for being human and treat other people in yourself with some kindness and decency.

I just, that's what I would, if I could start over, it wouldn't be knowing I didn't have to become this robot of a person that was the opposite of my job, that I was just supposed to be walking in a way that I would want them to watch. I was trying to human well, but still not denying any of my humanity in front of them. So they are not clay, they are human, and also you are human, so act like a human. Yes, okay. So that is our first piece of earth-shattering advice. You are, in fact, human, the child's human, keep humaning.

Okay, great. Okay, great. Okay. Okay. Okay, great. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. Shh.

I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios.

Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. The second one is this. So I figured out early on that after trying to read 17,000 parenting books that wait, okay, I'm going to stop trying to be like a better parent and I'm gonna just like start trying to be a better person and let them watch me, right? That was like a big shift for me. Except that there was this one woman that I loved

when I was raising the little ones. Her name's Susan Stiffleman. I loved her books and she was the best. And I remember having a conversation with her one time. This is the second little hot tip. And I remember having a conversation with her one time. This is the second little hot tip. And she was a child therapist and also a teacher of things. And she told me that a funny thing about being a family therapist is it's almost always

the case that if a parent is coming in to try to learn how to like understand their kid better or fix a problem or whatever. That it's almost always the case that they're fine anyway. But like she's never worried about those kids because if you are a parent who is the kind of person who will be humble and realize that there are some things you don't know and reach out for help in any way, whether it's through therapist, if you have that kind of privilege and money, if whether it's through a book, whether it's through a chat room, like if you are the kind of parent who's actually actively trying and questioning and thinking,

then almost by default, she knows you're fine. If you're asking for help, it's almost like you don't need it. Right. Well, that's a freaking relief. Yes, yes. So should I be worried that I never read a parenting book? Maybe I'm the one that, maybe I'm in the Susan Stiffle and Bullseye.

You should be worried. So like, if you're not worried, you should be worried. And if you are worried, you should not be worried. Second hot tip, okay? No, but I will never forget that she said to me, what kids need at the end of the day is one steady role model. Okay, so like all of these people are like, there has to be two parents in the house,

there has to be whatever, That's actually not true. There needs to be one study dependable role model. And the second thing is that the role models for a child need to be open to getting help when it's needed. Meaning help can just be information. Help can be conversations with other parents, but this idea of openness that like relating to small people is a lifelong journey and you might need more than just your own ideas because we were all raised in particular families

and particular family cultures. And if we don't open ourselves up to other ideas, we might only be passing down what we've learned. That's good. Yeah, yeah. So, the third thing, so that second hot tip was be open to other ideas and other help. And if you're already out there seeking resources and trying to broaden your understanding of what you should be doing, then you're probably already all set. Yeah, if you're listening to this podcast, if you've made it this far, right?

That means you're the type of person. If you're the type of person to constantly wonder, am I a good enough parent? Am I a good enough parent? Yes. You are. The people who are not good enough parents have never considered that possibility. Okay. So, fourth, are we on three or four? We're on three. Oh, dammit. Okay. All right, this is the third one. And I will tell you that I didn't figure this one out until maybe child two or three. Okay. I used to think of parenting as this, it was like the kid was born

and then you had this list of like goals, like an expectation list, like things like a dream situation would be. Like this kid would be this and this and this and this and this and this and then when they're a teenager they'd be this and this and then when they're an adult they'd be this and this and this and that my job was to get them from this ball of clay to this checklist of expectations, right? And then after a while, well, after parenting humans, also talking to friends who have parenting humans watching how this thing works,

you realize that is never, ever, how this kid goes, ever. That no one on earth really has ever gotten the kid that they thought they were going to get. Right? That there is this other way of parenting that throws away that sheet completely. There's no sheet. Right? And instead of... expectation parenting, it's like a treasure hunt parenting. It's like you come to them with basically a blank slate

and you have all of your ideas about how to be a decent human being. That's not what I'm saying. But in terms of who they are and who they will be, it is not your job to make them what your idea is of who they should be. It is only your job to discover, to spend your entire parenting life as a treasure hunt, just trying to create the sort of loving and open environment where that child feels safe to constantly tell you who they already are. Right? So, what's an example of that? Well, okay, so my, you know this, but Tish came home one day.

A couple of years ago, a few years ago, and she said, so Chase wants me to join all of these clubs in school, and I don't want to. I don't want to join these clubs. Not like a club person. So I said, okay, well then what's the big deal? Just don't want to. I don't want to join these clubs. I'm not like a club person. So I said, okay, well then what's the big deal? Just don't join the clubs. And she said, well, mom, I don't want to disappoint him. And I said to her, oh, honey, like your job throughout your entire life is to disappoint as many people as it takes so that you never disappoint yourself. And she said, even you, and I said,

oh, especially me, right? Because so many of us are living. I mean, I have friends who are fierce, you know, leaders and activists and people out there in the world and still at the end of the day, they come home and they're really living their lives to not disappoint their parents. It is like, and, you know, maybe their parents have been dead for 20 years, doesn't matter. Right. That is the ultimate like taming. This idea that we have to live not to

disappoint our parents. And I was talking to Liz Gilbert about this a while back and she said she told me to think hard about the word disappoint because even in the word, it's like if you're scared of disappointing your parent, That means you have already appointed them. The guide of your life. Right. Right. Right. Disappointing is unappointing. And reappointing yourself. Yes. That's what I want the kids to do. Like I want, I don't want them to live to try to as me as their guide. I want that I want to teach them to trust themselves to guide their own lives. And so, if disappointing is like an active thing because in that scenario, Tish was actually considering disappointing herself. Somebody was going to get disappointed in that scenario. If she joined the club, she was going to be disappointing herself.

If she did not join the club, she was going to be disappointing Chase. So I don't know, as a parent, I just want them to always know that their job is to unappoint everybody else as the guy of their life and trust themselves. This one is so true because you want them to live true. You want them to find what their what their particular version of success and joy and fulfillment is and not just be like, okay, if I go to the school, if I get these grades, but there's so many, there's so many layers to that that make it so much harder because

there's obviously, you know, if you're, if I told Bobby, disappoint me, only do what you want to do. He'd be like, that's cool. I'm going to be playing Fortnite for eight hours because I have appointed myself and that's what I want to do. So there's the lower level of that, right? And then there's this kind of higher level, which is we just so desperately want them to have the best things and we want them to be whatever route helped us, we want to be able to give to them. And so you only have the tools that you have.

You only, you only have the experience that you had. So if, if playing sports was your way of connecting to people in the world and getting self-confidence, you super want them to play sports because that was so helpful to you. And then it is confusing and hard when you have a kid who's a poet and wants to stay in their room all day and is a super sensitive artist, right?

And then there's this higher level of that, which is a very different than I think what you're talking about, was when you have kids with with special needs, when they have, you know, different brain structure, and we're learning about that in our family. And there is a certain amount, you actually do have to go through the process of grieving. Mm-hmm. What? It's not a disappointment because you love your kid exactly as they are, but there is a grief of a certain way that was always your assumption that it would be. And then you do have to go through that.

You can't shame yourself of saying, you know, shame on you for being disappointed or whatever it is. I think it's a process. But I think eventually then when you reframe it in the way that you're saying, and you just say like the treasure hunt. Every one of those flip sides of that letting go of what you thought it would be does really come with this incredible. When you can look at them not through that frame of what they're missing, but look at what they're bringing that you never thought would be part of your life. It really, it is a powerful thing.

Yeah. And you can see them. You can actually see them. When you're not seeing what's not there, you can actually see what's there. Yes. It's like that idea, like, don't become so obsessed with raising the perfect kid that you forget you already have that. Right?

Yeah, that's really interesting. It's like also that idea of just fiercely seeing your child for who they are and expecting the world to adjust to who that child is instead of for that child to adjust to the world's expectations of them. It feels like a personally powerful way to parent, but it's also kind of a way of reshaping the world. Because the more parents who just allow their kids to be exactly who they are instead of conforming, then that gives other parents permission to do it.

And it's like this ripple thing. Like you can, we could actually change the rigidity of how people are allowed to show up in the world if we stopped making our children conform. And that starts with you, like in your heart as their mom, if you have to first say, I truly believe you are okay. I truly believe that you are exactly what you need to be. And, you know, because you can't just say that about the world if you haven't first shifted that

yourself. Or you just keep saying it and keep trying to believe it. And then I almost, almost disagree. Like I almost feel like I never truly believe the shit that I believe. Like I always feel like I never truly believe the shit that I believe. Like I'm always like at the same time practicing it and saying I believe it and doubting myself and still doing it.

It's like in every day, do you know what I mean? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. You're like, I believe that I can swim. I believe that I can swim as you go and you're like, look at me, I'm not drowning. Yes, like love wins, love wins. Does love win?

Love wins, right? Love wins. Yeah, so, love wins. Right. Love wins. Right. Love wins. Right.

Right. Love wins. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay, so the next one we're now on to number four. Okay, this is this idea that we might have to do a whole episode on this actually, but

it's on this idea. I think we should do an episode also on the letting go of embracing the child you have because of the child that you expected yourself to have. Okay, okay. Okay, so number four, it's about pain and kids pain. yourself to have. Yes. A great. A great. Okay. So number four, it's about pain and kids pain. I have, I think because we as human beings don't trust pain, like we are taught as a culture that we should just, like there are a few feelings that are okay to have, which are

all like the comfortable feelings, like happiness and gratitude and not yet, and that any painful feelings are failures that we should just not admit we have or deflect or numb, then that's what we pass on to our kids, those ideas about pain. So this is this, and this was part of our parenting memo from my generation, it was like, your job as a parent is to never let your kid feel any pain,

to fix their sadness, to protect them from, you know, discomfort to never let anyone be mean to them, to never let them fail. Just like, just like the clay will melt. The clay? Yes. Or like it was like in eighth grade. I remember we had to do this, it was this parenting experiment or something and they gave it. So we don't get pregnant scare packets. Yes, they tried to scare us by giving us an egg. And it was like, if you can keep this egg not cracked for a week, I don't know, but I had

to carry this freaking egg around as terrified all the time that this egg was going to break. And that is literally how we parent. Like the egg experiment in real life. Like they give this human and we're like just panicking. Like what do I do not to break it? Because successful parenting is if I return this egg unbroken, right? But like once again, listen her, you came here to hear the earth shattering revelation that your child is neither clay nor an egg. Okay. So like, I'll never forget being at this parenting convention. And this woman stood up and she was amazing and she started crying

and she said, Glennon, my family is broken and there's nothing I can do to fix it. And every day I look at my son and he's in so much pain. And all I can think of is it was my one job to protect you from pain. And I couldn't do it. And I'm such a failure. I feel like such a failure. And all of the other parents are just nodding, nodding. First of all, they're at a parenting convention, so we know they're fine. Their kids are fine. See number two, Susan says you're all good.

Probably just best to relax, but anyway. So I said to her, it was this moment of understanding, like what, the problem is not that our kids have pain, the problem is that we have the wrong memo of what parenting is. She said it was my one job to protect them from pain. That's why she felt like a failure. But actually when you think hard about what kind of people humans were trying to raise, right?

Everybody says I want to raise somebody who's kind. I want to raise somebody who's wise, I want to raise somebody who's resilient. It's always some version of those three. And when you think hard about what is it in a human life that creates wisdom and kindness and resilience, it's pain, it's the struggle. Right, it's not having anything to overcome. It's overcoming and overcoming and overcoming. That's what builds. People who are kind are people who have felt the sting of unkindness and don't want to

pass it on. People who are resilient are people who have screwed up and failed and gotten back up and saw that that doesn't kill you. People who are wise have sat in the icky-ness of making mistakes and being human and like gleaned, you know, the gold that comes from that. So it's just this idea number four, which is it is not our job, nor our right to protect our kids from their pain, right? It's our job to just actually let them sit in it, sit

beside them through it, just say to them over and over again, like, I see your fear and it's big, but I see your courage and it's bigger. You can do hard things. We can do hard things because that's the dream, right? That when we're gone, they aren't these people who are just constantly avoiding every fire of life because we've taught them they can't handle it, that they know that they are fireproof because they've walked so through so many fires and they're still standing. And just the beat, that's exactly right. And the being, the being with them in it, I mean, that's all of it and not being, I'm

so afraid of your pain that I'm scared to talk to you about it, that I mean, that's all of it. And not being, I'm so afraid of your pain that I'm scared to talk to you about it, that I'm scared, that, that this has broken you. I'm just going to ignore it because it's too overwhelming for me. I mean, I think any pain, if you know that the person who loves you most is sitting with you in it. So best we can do. That's the best we can do. I love that. So it's not, it's, it's looking at it with them, right? Sitting, sitting in it with them. I love that. Okay, last one, which I feel like we kind of, you already kind of nailed, but this one's going to be tricky for me to understand, to explain. I was trying to think of how I want to say it on my walk, but I. Okay, I feel like we create stories about our children. Okay, we create these stories in our mind about who our children are. I should say I have. I have done this. Oh, Chase is the this one. Amas the this one. Tisha's the sensitive one, Emma's the sporty one.

Like, we create these stories about who they are. And I think more than anything, what I've learned now that the kids are older, is that the story of who I've said they are, have kept me from seeing who they actually are. That they're, you know, okay, quick example, like, you know, when Abby and Craig wanted to try out for this like, really elite soccer team and I was like, Tish cannot do that. Like Tish, she was struggling, she was having a hard time, she's super sensitive, she's, no, she can't do that.

That's not, this is the wrong time. I have this story about who she was and what she could handle. Thankfully, I deferred at that point to Abby and Craig. She crushed it. It's one of the things that has saved her during these last four years. That story I had about her was not true, right? And the story we have about them even though, even when it's positive is dangerous, right? So, oh, you're the artistic one. Really?

So now I'm in that cage for the rest of my life. Now, I think that's my parents' expectation. So I'm constantly trying to live up to that, right? Or I'm the sensitive one, my parents say, I'm the sensitive one. So that means my sister's not sensitive, first of all. And that means that I can't handle life, right? Or I'm the sensitive one, my parents say I'm the sensitive one. So that means my sister's not sensitive, first of all. And that means that I can't handle life, right? It's like, their issue is never what I've learned about my kids is that their issue is not, it's not theirs. It's like the story I have about their issue is their issue. Right? So it's kind of like if I could tell

a parent, the parenting at the end of the day is just about seeing them each day. And when you're staring at them because you have this story about them, you don't see them. Right? It's like every story we have about our kids is a cage. And there's this idea and Buddhism called beginner's mind that we actually can only see a situation or an idea or a person when we come to them with absolute freshness. Right, when we let go of all of the stories we have about them and they walk into a room and we're like, oh, there you are.

Fresh to me in this moment. And so, and you know that old, very famous quote from, I believe it was Tony Morrison, who said that all a child needs is for when they walk into a room to see their parents light up, their parents' eyes light up. Like, at the end of the day, if we can just look at our kids

with bright, lit up eyes. Freshly. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that to delight in them to delight. Like just and that I love that too because that quote I think about it all the time because it's just when they walk in the room and I think about it. I'm like, yes. You get totally in school. Are you walking the door? I'm like, how is your dad love you? I miss you. And that's it. OK. That's it.

That's all they get. But it doesn't. She doesn't say all a child needs is three hours on the floor of delighting in them. She said, when they walk in the room, that's right. And by the way, if you need to walk out, right away, just flash them some love and light and get the hell out of them.

It's so true. That thing that you said about labeling them is so important because I always wonder, are we doing that for our needs? Are we like, we have a checklist of things we require among our cohort. And so we're like, well, you're gonna be the sporty one because I need to have a sporty kid.

You're gonna be the smart one. You're gonna be the, and we carry those. I recently was with a therapist. I have just always thought that I am zero percent sensitive. Always my whole life. Oh sister. Oh sister. I, like, it with all honesty, I am not sensitive.

And I think I'm wondering, it's because you were always the sensitive one. That's right. And but turns out, shot in the century, for me truly was shocked, that I might be sensitive. At first I was like, let me see your credentials. I don't know about this. But those stories are true. And even the things, it's like when you say an untamed,

to be careful the stories you tell about yourself. When I'm talking about us, even I'm like, well, she's the creative one. I'm the analytical one. And that's an insult to both of us. That's right. It's not an, I don't feel it as insulting. I feel it as it, it's true for me. I am not analytical, but I will tell you that that's a conversation that Abby and I have been having. That you are so creative. You are so, I mean, it's just, it's interesting. Okay, that's for another, also, I just want to add that mom has always told me that I was a good singer

and dancer. You know that, right? Yeah, she's always like, she's like, Glennon has such a good voice. Like, Glennon is, she can dance. She's the one who dances. Do you, were you in the room? I thought it was at Christmas when I was dancing

and you and Abby just were like, no, you can't. This is terrible. I was stunned. I was stunned. So we have to be careful of the stories both ways. We can really be, we can lead our children into a life of delusion. Don't lie to them. God. Okay. We love you. Let's come back with some hard cues.

Okay. We're back with some hard cues. Let's go to a write-in question, which actually is maybe we got some version of this question 49 million times, which is how do you handle the sleep deprivation of being a parent with young children? What are they talking about? I don't know. Y'all sister has not slept for eight years. She has rough sleepers, non sleepers, people who don't believe in sleep.

They're doing their best to disappoint me. Yeah, and so they don't disappoint themselves. And bless their hearts, they disappoint you every damn night, don't they sister? Listen, you don't handle sleep deprivation. You barely survive sleep deprivation. I mean, I'll never forget talking to this person who was training for some crazy military situation, okay? And this person, I don't know if this is like top secret. I'm supposed to talk about it, whatever. I didn't sign anything. So in order to, this person was being trained by a government to withstand torture if this person got caught by an enemy.

Okay. Now, I need you to understand that what they did to train this soldier to resist torture, or to survive torture without caving, was that they put this person in a room with just walls, and then they played over a loudspeaker, a baby crying, or maybe it was a toddler because the toddler would cry, scream, and then yell, Mommy, Mommy. That was the torture, okay?

That broke most of these highly trained soldiers. And then they'd wake them up. They went every time they went to sleep. They'd wake them up. So they kept them. Yep. Yep. I remember.

So how do I explain this to you? The reason why you feel like you are being tortured is because you are actually being tortured, okay? But unlike these soldier people, you don't get to cave, you don't get to, you just have to day after day survive being actually psychologically and physically tortured. That's why you feel crazy, okay? You are not crazy.

You're just a goddamn parent. So we're basically all special forces, is what you're saying. Yes, you are a freaking, freaking hero, a global hero. Okay. Our last question is from Christina. A freaking hero, a global hero. Okay, our last question is from Christina. I'm wondering, Gwen, what are some tips that you have for moms who are going through the worry of kids growing old too fast, for example. I have a 13-14 year old and on the daily, I count to myself how many years I have before they're leaving, and that brings me just an instant sadness to think about them leaving. So I'm looking for some ways to kind of comfort myself maybe or just

make sure that I'm maximizing the time that I have with them, so I don't look back on these four and three years just in that undensifered threat. But I'm not that really a question, maybe just help with the transition. I know you're going through it too. Thank you so much. I think you're doing a great job. Christina, she's counting the years. Oh, I know this feeling. I know this feeling and how do we maximize the years and how do we enjoy it so much that we never have regret. So I'm Christina, I'm going to read to you just for you, Christina. Part of an essay that I wrote years ago called Don't Carpe Diem. Okay. Really this essay is how I became a writer.

This is the essay that went viral all over the place and kind of how this whole shaman got started. And it's about those women at Target who looked at me and told me it goes by so fast. Okay, so this is for you, Christina. My point is this. I used to worry that not only was I failing to do a good enough job at parenting, but that I wasn't enjoying it enough, double failure.

I felt guilty because I wasn't in parental ecstasy every hour of every day, and I wasn't making the most of every moment, like the mom is in the parenting magazine seemed to be doing. I felt guilty because honestly, I was tired and mamas in the parenting magazine seemed to be doing. I felt guilty because honestly I was tired and cranky and ready for the day to be over quite often. And because I knew that one day I'd wake up and the kids would be gone. And I'd be the old lady in the grocery store with my hand over my heart. Would I be able to say I enjoyed every moment?

Nope. Clearly, carpet DM doesn't work for me. When it comes to parenting, I can't even carpet 15 minutes in a row. So a whole DM is out of the question. Here's what works for me. There are two different types of time. Chronostime is what we live in.

It's regular time. It's one minute at a time, staring down the clock until bedtime time. It's 10 excruciating minutes in the target line time, four screaming minutes in time out time, two hours until daddy gets home time. Chronos is the hard, slow-passing time we parents often live in. And then there's Kairos time. Kairos is time outside of time.

It's metaphysical time. Chyrost is those magical moments in which time stands still. I have a few of those moments each day with my kids, and I cherish them. When I actually stop what I'm doing and really look at Tish, I notice how perfectly smooth and brownish her skin is. I notice the curves of her teeny elf mouth and her almond brown eyes.

And I breathe in her soft Tishy smell. In these moments, I see that her mouth is moving, but I can't hear her because all I can think is, this is the first time I've really seen Tish all day. And my God, she is so beautiful. Kairos. Or when I'm stuck in Kronos time in the grocery line and I'm haggard and angry at the slow checkout clerk,

but then I look at my cart and I'm transported out of Kronos. I notice the piles of healthy food, I'll feed my children to grow their bodies and minds. And I remember that most of the world's mamas would kill for this opportunity, this chance to stand in a grocery line with enough money to pay. And I just stare at my cart at the abundance, the bounty. Thank you, God. Chirus.

Or when the kids finally fall asleep, when I curl up in my cozy bed with my dog, I sleep at my feet, and I listen to her breathing. And for a moment, I think, how did I get so lucky? To go to bed each night surrounded by this breath, this love, this peace, this warmth, Kairos. These Kairos moments leave as fast as they come, but I mark them. I say the word Kairos in my head each time I leave cronos.

And at the end of the day, I don't remember exactly what my chirous moments were, but I remember I had them. And that makes the pain of the daily parenting climb worth it. If I had a couple chirous moments, I call the day a success. Carpea couple of chirous is a day. Good enough for me. So all of you lovies parenting the little ones on the climbing side of the parenting mountain

on the climbing the hill of the roller coaster so slowly. Forget about carping the whole day. Our next right thing is gonna be just find one chiro smoke in a day. Right? Just one day that stops your breath, that stops your heart, that is beauty. And you call that a parenting success.

And when life gets hard this week, don't you forget we can do hard things. Our theme song, We Can Do Hard Things by Tish Melton, is available now for streaming and download on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Music, Pandora, and YouTube. And now I give you Tish Mountain and Brandy Carlyle. I chased desire, I made sure I got once mine And I continue to believe that I'm the one for me And because I'm mine, I walk the line Cause we're adventurers in heartbreak So man, a final destination And we've stopped asking directions

Some places they've never been To be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home Through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do a heartache I hid rock bottom It felt like a brand new star I'm not the problem, sometimes things fall apart And I continue to believe the best people are free.

And it took some time, but I'm finally fine. Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak so mad A final destination will end We stopped asking directions So places they've never been Come to be loved, we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring We can do a hard thing

This world finished her rose and heart breaks on land. We might get lost, but we're only in that room. Stop that skiing directions. Some places may have never been to be loved, we need to be long We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives bring We can do hard things. Yeah, we can do hard things. Yeah, we can do hard things.

We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts. Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine. you