We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Pet Love: Are Animals the Closest We Come to Unconditional Love?

Episode Date: February 24, 2022

1. Amanda shares the story of Séamus, the newest addition to her family–and how he has ruined her “religion” of the spreadsheet.  2. Why Glennon says that Honey and Hattie are the only “people” who truly understand her–and what each of them teach her about love. 3. The ways we hilariously project emotions onto our pets–and how Abby has fallen for Tish’s pet hamster, Biscuit. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Hello to our favorite people in all the world. You.

How do you just burp? Okay, our dogs are here. So bear with us a little bit. There is a reason for that. There is a reason that our dogs are crawling on our left right now. Here's what we're talking about today. As many of you may have noticed, sister. Hi, Sissy. Hi.

Has been on a mission. I feel like since we started this podcast, I think sister has been on a serious spiritual mission since this podcast began. Yeah, right. We're talking about everything. Yeah, we're talking. We're forced her to talk about her life. Yeah, to diagnose and treat our own selves. Yeah, yeah, and it's it is a whole thing when you have to start digging in. And anyway, sister decided along the way that she would like to have more life in her life, right? This is a question, where is the life in our lives? Sister decided that she might even hurt achieving type A alpha self would also like to have

some delight and joy. Yeah. Right? Am I saying that correctly? Well, I mean, no, I'm not. I think it's just, it's less like aspirational and more just desperation, more just like it's not working for me. So what MMI desperate enough to consider alternatives because, yes, because I might, I might have reached the bottom of where this particular life is going to take.

Okay, so you know, on this podcast, that's fair. We are less inspirational and aspirational and more desperation. Desperation. I said desperation. Ashtag, we are less committed to wellness and more committed to just less dying slowly inside. Yeah, it's less. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But you felt open, open to possible avenues of more delight. Would you say that? You felt your little Grinch heart, preparing to expand three sizes. Yeah. I thought, you know, clearly the calculations that I've made here to four have only got me here to four. So I am open to the idea that maybe out of an abundance of data suggesting there might be another way. Okay. Okay. Right. Okay. So at that point, here we are going along in our lives. And then your whole family comes

to our family in California for the holidays for two weeks, right? And what I would say about your children when they arrive. What would you say about my children? Well, one thing that I would say about my unbelievably fantastic niece and nephew are that when they see our dogs, all they do is lose their little damn minds for two weeks. Hadi, who is our little golden-doodle-type dog, is thrilled by this. She has people to play with with her.

It's just so happy. Honey, our French bulldog, well, she feels otherwise. Oh, maybe. I think that- She's more just like raining queen. Yeah. She's like, I grace you with my presence. She's also smaller than haddy. So you can pick honey up. Right. And so this is where Alice and Bobby, they'll just they'll they'll they'll take her, they'll maneuver her. Right.

They play with her as if she's the not live dog. More like she's a doll. Right. And then so we watch Sohne's under pressure and watch. Wouldn't there? Yeah. Okay. She's just getting poked and prodded for a couple of weeks. She loves it though. But just so everyone understands the context. My kids are so obsessed with your animals that we bought Alice's special locket a couple years ago.

And I told her she could pick any member of the family, any family picture she wanted to put in there, anything that made her the happiest. And she unequivocally and very quickly said, oh, I will have a picture of honey. Yes, so the bulldog. So anything in life that brought her joy and made her feel connected and loved and she picked your dog. So now she's a locket with your dog in it. Amazing. And so when you were here, we ended up talking a lot about

the possibility of one day you all getting a dog. And you've always thought, oh, you felt teeny bit open to it because John's, your husband has been raised, was raised with German shepherds and dogs. But I think you had this real feeling that you're still in the chaos of young children. Like the K, the freaking dripping with children, no minutes, no bodily autonomy, no sanity moments. Tell us how you felt about the idea of adding a dog to your family. Well, it felt like, you know, someone who's doggy paddling just to stay afloat about to drown and then say you handed them a dog.

And that's how I felt. It felt like, oh, good. So I'm barely making it. Why don't you put a dog on top of my, you know, not-so-boyant body? But that's how I felt. But I did feel resigned to it because it was probably our third date the first time that I had met John's mom.

And she, the first thing she said to me was, well, Amanda, I hope you know that if you married John, you're going to have to have a doc. Like it was like out of the gate. So I think it was meant in of the gate. So I think, oh, it was meant in, like, just love. Of course, yeah. I'm just saying like, but that's like a, that's like a non-negotiable. Yeah. It has felt like that. So I was kind of resigned to it. But if you would ever have told me that I would, you know, intentionally elect to cohabitate with an animal except under like resigned dress.

Right. I would tell you you have me confused with someone who is a little easy breezy. So it didn't feel so much like an election. It just kind of felt like well that has to happen. In a point. What happened was I kept telling my kids since they were two, eventually in a few years,

and a few years when you're old enough, and at one point, maybe when they were quite young, I said, apparently, to Bobby, when you're 10, because it felt millions of miles away. Exactly. But then unfortunately what happened was he is nine and a half right now. And he reminded me of that. So don't it was coming.

Note to listeners, we have young children. You never put a number on a promise. No, no, no, yes. You keep it ambiguous. You are not going in five minutes. You're not going to be there in five minutes. You're not going to get a dog when they're 10. You're not you're going to do it sometime.

Right. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe we'll see. We'll see. We'll see if you tell to the no. Right. Okay.

But I feel this like little creaking of the dog door open because I can see a little bit with you when I see a little, you're usually a yes or a hell no. So when I see any wavering, I feel, oh, there's hope, there's hope. Hell, half no fury, like Glennon Doyle, whom which has now found a little slice of a door, a jar. Yeah, there was no, there was no database. Yeah, she pulled out computer was doing research shelters for baby. We talked about during the Christmas holiday to the holidays. So yes, I believe the door was a tiny bit of jar and I'm like, okay, it's happening because if not now, when it's not me who right, so it's out there. It's out there, it's coming. So it's time.

It's not like they're going to be seniors in high school. We're going to be like, well, now you get a dog. Right. So we started actually talking about it. And then the week we got home from the holidays, my sweet neighbor who's amazing, who she found me. My kids therapist, she found me. My kids' therapist, she found me there like educational, diagnostic people, she found me my therapist. She just like the she give it unto me good

thing. She brings a lot to the table. Go ahead, I love friends like that. You just know you can call them and they're gonna know everything. And they're just like, with a light hand, but just, you know, I'm struggling with this. Okay, I got your person and I'm gonna help you out. And so she texts me out of the blue. She knows nothing about the context. And she says, I have the perfect dog for your family. So this is the moment where you think,

if you're waiting for a sign, here's a sign. Okay. And of course, because what I do in those situations where I'm given signs is I say, look, an eagle. And I try to run in the other direction. I know you love me. And you're like, my friend said, I have the perfect dog for you. What do you think?

I'm like, what do you mean? What do I think? What are you waiting for the dog to actually arrive in your bed with a bow around it? Like, yes, this is the sign. So I ignored that text from her and then like a week later she said, are you just going to ignore the text where I said I have the perfect dog for you? And so I said, okay, tell me about the dog. So she fosters and love, love and so many shout-outs to all of the doggy fosters in the world. I mean, it's such a beautiful gift to protect these little ones after they're, you know, going to these big transitions. So she is fostering this dog.

She loves this dog. She thinks he's perfect for our family. We say, okay, can we meet the dog? We meet the dog. We start spending a lot of time with the dog. It's like a relationship. It is. It is. You're dating so cute. And I become much to my surprise. Utterly obsessed with the dog. I love him.

I love him so much. We go through this whole process where we try to adopt him. I am sweating so much. I am, I have to write a letter to the, you have to have a home study. Dops, it a home study come to my house. I make my kids, I'm like, be normal. Don't know.

I'm being weird. Everyone act the way. Love it. Normal people. I'm, I'm so nervous. And we do the whole thing. And they ask us, lots of questions.

They referrals. They call. Oh my god. Yeah, they have to call for character references. Who did you use for character references? Did you have neighbors? Or like, because no one called me.

Nobody called us. Yeah. Yeah. So I, yeah, a friend and a neighbor I used and then they said yes. And now who do you have? We have Shamus, the golden retriever. He is one year and seven months old. He is so precious. He had an original owner that could not care for him anymore. And so then he went to my neighbor's house and then he came here

and he is amazing. I love him. And so we have both seen flashes of delight in you since this little dog came. Can you tell us because actually it when you because I think we wait until our lives are under control to add absurd delightful things. We think joy, absurdity, delight, unproductive, just nonsense, is for when everything else is under control. So we have that feeling where we're like, I'm treading water, I can't add a dog. But it didn't end up feeling like somebody put a dog in your hands while you were trying to not to drown.

What does it feel more like? in your hands while you were trying to not to drown. What does it feel more like? I mean, it feels more like a reason to go play in the pool. You know, it just feels, it feels, this is, it reminds me of the friendship episode when it's like who the hell has time for friends when you don't even have time for the bazillion things in your life and it's all too much. And it's like, oh, wait, no, that's exactly why we need friendship

because somehow when you add lovely solar-forming things to your life, it makes the rest of it less heavy. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I just feel like I don't know. It's so interesting. I therapy yesterday and my therapist was talking about how we as people, it's like we each have these essential selves, but then we have all the armor. So when we're bumping into those people, it's just armor bumping into armor. Yes. We're never like getting to the essential, and I realized, I'm sure there was a bigger lesson for me and my life for it, but I just kept thinking about shame as. And I'm like, that's it. That's what's so much. He is just as essential being all the time. He's just what he is just

going about being exactly who he is at all times and it's silly and nonsensical but but there's no armor around any of it and that is disarming. Yes. It puts you in a different place and I think there's certain people like this in our lives but very very rare. Like Abby, I actually think you are of all the people I know, the most regularly, essentially, yourself. Like I think that's what is so magnetic about you. Like that's why you're irresistible to anyone around you is because you are your essential being a vast majority of the time and I think it's just there's I think animals and the very rare people like that that we

are nacked with is just so magnetic because maybe that's why I connect so well with dogs maybe I don't know just okay I think Because maybe that's why I connect so well with dogs. Maybe. I don't know. I'm just joking. I think that that's such a beautiful point to see. Because dogs to me have or pets have this unique ability to interrupt what's going on in your life. And both good and bad, right?

There's sometimes where I'm pissed that honey peed on the floor. She does peel off. But like, at the end of the day, the interruption is almost always like really welcomed. Yeah, because whatever else you were worrying about or doing was kind of bullshit. And like, they don't talk to you. So you have to actually create this dialogue

of like what they're thinking, what you think their experience is. That's what I do. I'm like, oh, she's cold. All we do is talk about what they're thinking. And for sure, they're not thinking she's the thing. She's feeling this. Yeah, look at her. She's so mad at us that we left. Look at her. She's so sad. Look at her. Oh, my God. How do you just look at us in this really funny, sad way? I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, look at us in this really funny, sad way? I, a projection of emotions of the dogs. It's hilarious.

John walked in the other day. That was on the floor. I'm so worried about, you know, Shamus's emotional stability. Yes. Because he got left after a year and a half of his life. So I'm on the floor saying, we're never gonna leave you. You have a home here forever. You can just lay down that burden of worry about and John's box ended. He's like, yeah, you've never had dogs before.

I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and I'm someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what

class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy, a new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Remember when Craig and I got Theo from the shelter, Theo now lives right with Craig down the street, also our dog. They, I went, we went and found Theo, and Theo, we knew belonged to us. But then we had to leave because they had to do all the checks. And then they told me, we need another day because we're going to clean him all up. Do you remember this? Oh, yes, you were so. And I was so upset. I said, don't you clean him first. I don't want him to learn that he has to be like fancy and clean before his family takes him. We will take him dirty. Thank you. That's great.

And then we went and gone him and we were like, oh, honey, you guys clean him. And now with honey and honey, I just feel strongly that both of these dogs are the only people who truly understand me. People, by the way. And also, they have taught me, they teach me everything about unconditional love.

Okay? Oh yeah. Because in different ways, all right. Haddie, the golden doodle thing, amazing. She's staring at her right now. She teaches me about unconditional love because she loves everyone unconditionally. It doesn't matter if you've been gone for one second

or a week, it doesn't matter if she just is in, so much love, so much affection, just her energy is I love you, I love you, I love you. And so I learn how to be unconditionally loved from her. And with honey, the bulldog, I learn how to love something unconditionally who doesn't give a crap about me. It's like, it's a gift of unrequited love. It is.

It's like, she really only loves me because I'm warm. It's conditioned. It's conditioned. The conditions are, are you a warm body? Like, like temperature wise. Exactly. Exactly. No, just like you have sweat pants on that are soft and cozy.

What do you bring to the table, do you? That's it. Or are you do you have food for me? Do you feed me? Other than that, she's a cat. So, I have to learn how to love her unconditionally, not based on how she treats me. So it's like absolute opposites, but they're both teaching me. And the one thing that I'll say that I appreciate so much about dogs is that in this world where it feels like I'm always

earning my worthiness based on like how much I do, how busy I am, what I can give you, whatever, how we all feel, what I'm bringing to the table, what I'm, what I've done for you lately, like that feeling of I always have to be producing to feel like I have, you know, earned my right to exist on the earth. The dogs are the only beings that I feel love me more the less I do. Oh yeah, well, because you're sitting on the couch. Yes. Whenever you're on the couch, they're right there. Their best day for me, they're heaven. They're like, you're the best dog mom in the entire world would be if I sort of woke up, not really, didn't shower, sat back on the couch, didn't move all day,

and then went to bed again. That would be their, this is the best person in the unit. And there's something that is so healing about that. Like they are a walking invitation, a walking reminder to play and to rest and to get fresh air. Right. Because they're going, right? Because your couch story assumes that Abby is taking them out for a walk. That's right. But, but it's true. And I do, I get it. It's because I feel like as a person who lives by a spreadsheet and where it's hard to stop or slow down, I feel like what shameless is proving is that non-sensical things are important. Like when you actually do this virtue and you're like, okay, they're food and care costs many, many dollars.

Low so many dollars. They require a commitment of a lot of time and structure and planning. And then on like the deposits column. Oh God. There's like nothing quantifiable. Nothing makes sense about the spreadsheet, but just their being and their just kind of the delight that they offer is makes it just a resounding yes, even though the spreadsheet says no. So my religion of the spreadsheet and they're being logical, quantifiable things, it kind of ruins my religion. Because I'm like, this thing doesn't make any sense. But yet I need it very much.

Dogs will destroy your capitalistic productivity religion. I think that like what is so valuable to me about a dog is that they constantly are this mirror of like, oh, just be here, right? Like they're not living in their past, they're not living in their future. They're just like right here right now, all the time. And like yes, sometimes it's annoying

when they like want something right now, but the time. And like, yes, sometimes it's annoying when they like want something right now, but at the end of the day, it's like such a good for me, they put the B in the being like they do. They're just like right here right now, all the time. And that is when I'm at my happiest. And then cats. Oh, don't get me started. Listen, so Abby does not appreciate a cat.

I deeply, I'm allergic to cats. I think she just says she is, so we definitely can't get one. No, so Abby does not appreciate a cat. I deeply am allergic to cats. I think she just says she is, so we definitely can't get one. No, I'm very, I think that's. Okay, well, we'll see. The cat theater makes me sneeze. Mm-hmm. Are you physically or spiritually allergic? Physically.

Okay, so I appreciate a cat, okay? And I think it's because in life, Abby's more of a dog. But cats, they are badass with their boundaries. They are not trying to please anybody. They, right? We had cats growing up. They're always judging. They're always looking exactly right.

And judging me and all I want to do is be like, what? Cats are the lovies. They're the lovies of the animals. What animals do you better people? Yes, better. Yes, and I appreciate that. So they're not trying to please, but they're also cozy.

We grew up with cat after cat after cat. Do you remember when gummy, gumdrop? I got to name that cat. So she had a litter of kittens in my closet. And something happened, gumdrop decided not to feed one of them. It was like this little runty run. And gumdrop was like over it.

I now understand gumdrop resistance and protest. It's hard not to feel that way about your second. It was like her sex. She's like, oh hell no. I now understand gumdrops resistance and protest. It's hard not to feel that way about your second. It was like her sixth, she's like, oh hell no. Yes. Five is my limit. Yes. And so there was this one kitten that was not thriving.

And do you, I think you and me are me and a friend? No, it was just you and you had a friend over that night that they were born, but you made it your life's mission to bring this little kitty along. And she wouldn't have lived. No. And with a huge eye dropper and you had an eye dropper of milk and you fed that thing every single day and you kept and remember it wouldn't grow. It wouldn't grow. It was like perfect. It was like kitten size for its whole life. And so it was perfect because it was but it was that shit crazy. Oh yeah. She lost some brain action I think. Oh, she was amazing. But did you remember how wild she was? She would attack everybody but me.

Dad couldn't feed her because she just go crazy and it took them. It sounds like a foreshadowing for your life. Yes, I'm kind of metaphor, and I mean, I'm too miracle. Oh, sweet miracle. I love it, miracle. I love it, miracle.

But it's true, Abby, what you were saying, because I feel like there's so many points where theoretically throughout our day and our lives, we'd be appreciate little moments. We could be going around being like, oh, look at that smile. Oh, look at that. We could see anything as beautiful and special,

but this having a vehicle of like a furry, precious, lovely thing kind of like it forces you. You're a tension into the moments without you at other ways. And it gives everybody in the family, I feel like in our family, the dogs are also like a pressure release valve. You're just staring at each other all day.

And you're like, we wanna talk about the little stuff too. We're talking about stuff, looking at each other, judging each other, trying to figure each other out. Like how are you feeling, kids? And also, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? And then the dog comes and everybody gets to shift literally their gaze. Look, each other. Yeah. Yeah. To the dog. And it's just this release valve of intensity to joy. Yeah. Or stress. I mean, honestly, our dogs are always peeing. I always go in the trash. I mean, it's also, it's not all grosses.

No, it's not all roses, but it's worth it. Totally. Even even the peeing and the trash eating and the barking with haddy, it's worth it. Like the amount of times that we look at each other and the dogs are on our bed, are in our beds. we have no boundaries. And we're like, I love them so like in our teeth, we're like, I love them so much. What is that? What the why do we want to eat them? That's so weird. We have a beast in our bed. The beast in our bed, we're it. And you should know that we have trained them to sleep with their heads on the pillow between us.

They sleep like human beings. It's a row of Doyle Wombok. Like, it's Abby, then Honey, then Honey, then me. And then during the night, I move, I move Honey over to the other side of Abby because she snores so loud. And now we have a new animal. Well, here is where we have a new animal. Well, here is where things get a little wild. You're even surprising yourself.

And I want a lot more. We assert a tea of dogs for us. Gateweats. They're gateweats. Is there a gateway? And I've always been anti. I'm always in pro-dog. Anti-everything else.

Yes. Especially rodents, especially, especially snakes and rodents. And I send all of the rodents and snakes love, but it's just not for me, it's just not my jam. Right, well, Tish, she comes to us recently and she said, you know what? You know what, my life is missing? My life is missing a hamster. And she knows us as parents very well. And so she is, you know, informing and educating the three of us. And she's also telling

us why she needs it. Tish is the one who like six years after the divorce will still explain that perhaps she forgot her book report because of the trauma of a broken family. She told us that she was feeling like lonely and so she needed a hamster. She played all of our buttons. She approaches us and she has what what feels like a little bit like a report, like a school report. Like here is how long the hamster lives and also she fibbed on that. She said only one year. And this one, we get to the freaking, we decide, okay, we're going to do this. No, no, no, first she said absolutely not.

Of course. And then four days later, we'll know this pet store. No, we say absolutely you can do this at Craig's house. Yeah, that's right. Craig and I are texting back and forth, like negotiating the crap out of the set. Not it. Not it. Exactly.

And so we've decided as a family that that hamster is going to live at Craig's house. Well, I don't know how this house now either. Tisht decides that she needs to hamster now and the hamster is now having to live in our house. Cause of the divorce, probably. Cause of the divorce. So we go to the freaking store, we get this hamster, biscuit, the hamster, we get all the things, the whole damn family goes. And now the hamster is living at our

house. And how do you feel about the hamsters living at our house. And how do you feel about the hamster babe? Okay, so here's the deal with biscuit, new rodent. New hamster. I call it Beatrix. We call it Beatrix. I freaking love this thing. I, when Tish goes and is at Craig's house,

I sit and I watch her. This thing is a knock. Do you do? I didn't know hamsters were nocturnal. Like, I actually don't know what the point of her is because she's just lost her in the night and not at all during the day. So there's like one hour between by the time we go to work like in bed that she might nine to 10 9 to 10 p.m That I just sit there and I'm watching her and Tisha's Bath bonding time. So Tisha and the hamster. So what I'm trying what we're trying to tell you Pod spot watch out for dogs from 9 to 10 first. I'll be used to go to bed at 9. Okay now From 9 to 10 I am in my bed reading.

And if you need to find Abby, you have to go to Tisha's room, even when Tisha's not here, I mean, when she's at Craig's, Abby is sitting cross-legged in front of a cage. That's on the floor. I love that thing. In the dark.

I just wanted to come out for me. And she's staring, waiting for biscuit to peak her little biscuit head out. Unless, of course, Tish is home. When Tish is home, Abby stares with Tish from 9.930 and then Tish brings the hamster into the only bathtub that exists in our home, which is in my bathroom, and Tish and the hamster sit in our bathtub for half an hour.

What are they doing? They're just bathbed. It's called the bath time bonding. But like what's so fun? Is it flow? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no crawl into the crevice of a room and go away forever. So this is a safe place. But I do think it's a perfect example of what pets do to a family because my one sacred safe space, right?

When I get into the bathroom, there's hamster shit in it. No, Tish cleans it up. She cleans up A and B, here's what I'll say about this little hamster. And I think the real reason why I love it. It's because this child worked really hard to convince us. She did. And I love this child. Yes, you do.

So much. I love our children so much that when she comes into our room and talks about the love that she has for this biscuit, it's like, it's a grand animal. She's our grand hamster. She's our grand hamster. And I, our first grand, our first grand animal. I love this thing as if it's my own because it kind of is. And because we've watched her, I mean, Tisha, you know how she is.

She would not, she came into our room each night and talked about how she's fostering trust between her and the hamster. She would never pick her up because she needed to earn the hamster coming to her. It was very, she was trying to set the hamster for who the hamster was. And she-

Don't you go in that room, she said. Yeah. So, don't you go in that room. Oh my gosh. Don't you go in that room. She said, yeah. I'm like, gosh, don't you go in that room, Abby? I'm like, all right. Well, and then of course, I got to get in there just to see. Yeah, you do sneak in. Well, because I think that all animals are going to love me the most. Do. Yeah.

I don't know. I understand it's unhealthy. It's so good. It's so good. It's so good. All right, let's, we have some questions from Pod Squad about their pet. Great. Let's hear some pet cues from the pod squadders. Hi, my name is Leah. I'm calling in because I'm really excited about something. My dog Stella and I are going to go to our first group class to work on some issues that she has. We've been doing a training program for a while now, and we've done some private lessons,

but this is our first group class, and I'm really scared and excited about it. I just love Stella so much. She's such a sweet dog, but she has a lot of issues whenever we go outside. She, Stella, just feels all of the things. She is so affectionate and loving, but she gets so scared and anxious when we go outside. But we're working through it because I want her to be able to go out into the world with me.

And I just wanted to call and tell you about that because she's on my island. And I love her a lot. I'd love to hear more about your guys' relationship with honey and haddy and any other pets that you've had. Thank you. Bye. Leah is Stella's emotional support human. And you know what? She, you know who Stella reminds me of? Who? My beautiful wife. She just feels so much. She's so lovely, but then she goes

out into the world and she's so nervous and scared. Yeah. I'm glad that Stella's getting some group therapy. I just wish she would still just be able to go to her private lessons. I feel like it's so I love that she said that she's on my island because we have received so many messages from people that are saying, you know, my animal is the closest thing to me. And I think that that is beautiful. And I feel like there's kind of a cultural, kind of like in the friends episode where we talked about, you know, you get a divorce

and everyone's like, oh, I'm so sorry, but then you break up with your best friend and the world is like moving right along. I just want to say out loud that there's so many people for whom their connection to their animals is their deepest, most profound. The love story of their life. The love story, the love story of their life, that's right The love story of their love. The love story, the love story of their life.

That's right, it's a real thing. And I feel like we kind of belittle it a little bit, but there's honestly, when you look at like the actual research, people should not be belittling it. Dogs actually and animals pets that you love. They actually increase your oxytocin, they make you less stressed out, they increase the way that you socialize in the world, that like people socialize more in the world who have animals that don't, they handle stress better, they have lower blood pressure.

I mean, once the last time a friendship did that for you, I'm saying you have to. I want to check. Well, it's like if we're basing our all over health and wellness on physicality, then all those things you just said scientifically, the animals make us make our lives better. But also, there's no spiritual tradition that at the heart of it doesn't say, okay, the way to the way is presence. Yes. That's it. Like that's it. That's what everybody's saying in all of the, in love in presence, presence in love,

loving presence. That's what every spiritual tradition tells us is the answer. And dogs and animals, that's what they're forcing us into. That's right. Is loving presence. It's that William Martin quote, do not ask your children to strive for extraordinary lives. Such striving may seem admirable, but it is the way of foolishness. Help them instead to find the wonder and the marvel of an ordinary life.

Show them the joy of tasting tomatoes, apples and pears. Show them how to cry when pets and people die. Show them the infinite pleasure in the touch of a hand and make the ordinary come alive for them. The extraordinary will take care of itself. Yeah. It's like that's what I feel like they do. It's kind of like when you're doing meditation, bring your breath back, bring your breath back, bring your breath back. It's like that's what I feel like, Shaymus does for me. You know, I'm so busy seeing the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, and him being there is like, bring your presence back to this moment because I'm looking your face. Bring your presence back to this moment because I need you to pull on this rope. Like, it doesn't matter all these other things.

The meditation thing is so interesting because I was actually, this happens to me all the time. I'm meditating, just recently, meditating upstairs. And Hattie, she's, I think she's a guard dog, so she's sitting by the window and she's freaking out. She's freaking out. Okay, so I'm trying to meditate. And Hattie is looking at our window and freaking out because she thinks that the person who's walking by our house is attacking us. So she's distracting us from this beautiful meditation because she thinks she's under attack. And of course, you know, in meditation,

Pemesh Adonoi says, the obstacle in the path is the path. So when my dog interrupts me because she's freaking out because she doesn't think she's safe in my meditation, I try to think, okay, not like you're so annoying, you're messing up my meditation, but this is my meditation, I try to think, okay, not like you're so annoying, you're messing up my meditation, but this is my meditation for the day. How is Hattie interrupting me because she's scared? My meditation. And to me, the answer is, I'm saying to Hattie, why are you freaking out? You're totally safe. We're in this beautiful moment. I've got this. And the God of whoever, all of our understanding, the universe is looking at me and saying,

why are you always freaking out? We're in this beautiful moment, you're safe. You don't have to guard your house. I've got this, you're safe. And why you're gotta say to you, why do you, I send all of this into your life and you interpret every passerby as a potential threat intruder and threat and you're always barking Glenin You are always afraid so you're always barking when you could be just laying around in the sun in this house that is safe

Wow My meditations go quite different house that is safe. Wow. My meditations go quite different. So good. All right, let's hear from this next caller. That was good. Thank you, baby. I was listening to your podcast last night as I was driving home from the 24 hour vet emergency for, you know, another crazy dog emergency. And it got me home at four in the morning without crashing. So it definitely kept me awake and entertained. But my question for you is, how do you do with heart things with pets? You know, I get gifted these incredible animals into our lives that become part of our family and I don't have kids so I definitely have the fur babies and

you just also deeply in love with them and you also know it's a short, short time. And so yeah, I guess I was just curious as to what your relationship is with pets and how you hold on to that connection knowing that it's shorter than most human connections. What do you do with the grief around all of that? Like what do you find helpful? So anyway, I love you guys. You're wonderful. And please keep doing all the beautiful work that you're doing.

Thank you so much. Bye. I think Sissy's crying. Are you crying over there? I just don't. I've never been through that. She's just got, she's just got Chamus. Yeah. I mean, that's the question. That's the question, right?

I'm thinking about the first experience that we had with animals and death was usually, I feel like most parents who are resisting for animals because they feel like they're treading too much water. We start with fish. That's what our family did. We started with fish. We were like, that's the reverse gateway. Yes. Because I bought three years of non-dog time by having fish.

Right. Exactly. So it's like hold off. It's a damn. Yeah. So we bought fish. We had three little beta fish that were in different Little what are they called? Tini aquariums. They were in each of the kids rooms. This is when we were like real heavy like Jesus See I am not kidding the fish's names were Jesus Mary and Joseph. I did not name them. Oh my gosh. Are you kidding me? No, I don't even told you this whole thing. So Jeanne Emma had Jesus, Tisha had Mary,

and she has had Joseph. Did Jesus just appear? Yeah, Mary without Joseph. Oh, I'm sorry. Was it too aquarium? And then it's like Mary under her. You're such a... Jesus is given.

So weird, you guys. And you had to move them? Unexplainable. And Mary, the fish was like, under her. Jesus is given. So weird, you guys. And you had to move them. Unexplainable. And Mary, the fish was like, dude, I swear to God. I did not have fish sauce. I did not have fish sauce. I swear. I swear to you.

I swear to you. I swear to you. Jesus. Sideying Mary for the first couple days. He's like, oh, Jesus, the fish was like, oh, it's freaking new. It's freaking new. This is my favorite thing that has ever happened on our

podcast. Anyway, so we've got Jesus Mary and Joseph was going fine for a little while. And my friends had their kids over and they were all running around upstairs in the kids bedrooms, all the little ones. And I hear screaming from upstairs and Emma is little or little voice is screaming. Jesus is dead. Jesus is dead. Okay, over and over again. So we run upstairs and poor little Peyton, Amos friend, has poured the whole fish food into the aquarium. And so Jesus has indeed gorgeed Jesus self so much that Jesus is in fact dead and floating

and for sure, Emma's waiting for it to resurrect. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Let's see if this promise is real. For sure. Emma's like, this story is not yet over. It's the Friday. it's the Friday. It's the Friday. First the pain, then the waiting, then the rising, right?

But in fact, Jesus the fish was not gonna rise. And so this was the first real conversation that we had to have as a family. About religion. About, yeah, that was tricky, but you know, really just talking about what is the point? I mean, I remember saying, Chase, look, what is the point? They just die. We love them and then they die. And it was speaking to this larger point of like, what is the point of loving at all? And I really remember the five of us just coming to the

idea of we do not love because it lasts forever because if we did that we would all be fools We would all be wrong. We would all be wasting our time because it will never in fact last forever but We love because the process of loving something we love because the process of loving something changes us. Yes. Because the process, the doing of it, the loving and being loved, creates this growth in us. That leaves us different and better and holer and more beautiful when it ends after it ends. Right, so maybe that love doesn't even really ever end. I still love the dog that I had from years and years ago. Yeah, you're right, it doesn't.

You're right, it doesn't end. The relationship doesn't fully end. Everything we love will transform in some way or another over the lifespan, but it's so compressed with our little animals that, again, with the presence, it's present in your head the whole time. You know, you know. Yes.

I think that it's like death and training, and we get to practice, hopefully, throughout the whole of our life with these pets, to start learning about death and understanding what the relationship we personally have with it, so that we can prep for the death of our, you know, parents or our loved ones. Like, I just think, yeah, it is. I mean, what, like, I don't know if there's a more beautiful lesson you can teach. And it's just so interesting to me that for us, these dogs and this hamster are going to help us and teach our kids. Exactly.

Because it also, I don't know how to do it. I certainly don't know what's right and wrong, but I know what feels tempting to me when an animal is lost. What's tempting to me is what's tempting to me with everything that my kids go through. It's painful, which is it's okay. And look at Eagle. And here's a new one and don't feel any of it and moving on. You know, all of these things we do where we're replacing the animal really fast or we're

like, you know, distracting them or we're telling them that it went to live on a farm somewhere or we're we're lying and lying and lying so that they don't feel the loss of loss and for me it's an opportunity to resist that and to trust that to show them ritual right to like give a container to grief to give a vehicle to it. Okay, yeah, now we sit sadly and we don't know, we don't know, we say we don't know. We don't necessarily, if we don't believe it, make up a bunch of stories about what is happening. We don't know, and then we sit and we don't know together, and we feel sad together. And then we create some sort of ritual to help us move through our grief.

And I think that the same, you know, it is practice for human loss, but it also is its own real loss. Yes. That is a very real loss. And I think, you know, I didn't grow up with dogs, but John was one of five kids. And it's so interesting how when the family gets together, I feel like a lot of the portion of the conversation revolved. They're all different ages. They span this gap, but they have the glue.

Reminds me of untamed Elmer's. It's like the glue that connects their experiences through these various times where they were different ages and different stages is what dog was at the center of their family during any time period. And they get together and they talk about those times with the dog. And so, and this is, you know, 40 years later, you know, the dog we had then, then the dog we had then,

and silly, they actually tell stories all the time about it. So I feel like it's a really acknowledging the glue that is these animals in our families and how that continuity can still be alive years later is really special. And it's like the center. Like you think of pets as like the app, I'm thinking of a wheel, a wheel right now when you're talking.

And I'm thinking of how we think of pets as like, you know, they're on the outside with us, but maybe the pet is the center. The dog is the center because it's like everybody gets to have their own separate relationship with the dog too. And every kid gets kind of what they need, you know, the kid who needs to play and be engaged, you know, a kid, I remember play and be engaged, you know, a kid.

I remember the cats, like a sensitive kid who, like, feels so much at school and can't connect with people at school, but then comes home to their safe place with the dog. It's like the dog turns out kind of to be the center of the wheel. Because it's the only part of the wheel that is consistently its essential nature. You know, when I get with my, you know, son, I love him so much, but I bring so much fear and anxiety about his future and what's going on here and what's going on there that there is inevitably some of my armor pushing his armor at all times as that is it makes me feel like but with the same with my husband but the dog is the only one in the family who is strictly as a central nature. So when that's the

case people can come and get what they need and have this genuine connection. Yeah. All right, let's hear from Kelsey. Hi guys, my name is Kelsey. I am a nurse and my first year I worked in a pediatric ICU that was emotionally traumatizing, physically traumatizing, and I have threatened that you need to serve a recovery. I worked so hard to maintain. And it took everything in me to quit that job. It was like the first time I did something despite knowing that everybody would look at me differently and possibly think I failed. So that is the best decision I've made in a very

long time. I love my job now. I'm getting my master's in psychiatric nursing and I'll be a psych-NP in a couple years but I just wanted to ask you guys, do you have pets? And if you do, I think it's like staying through mental health at all. I just adopted kittens and it's been the most mentally well I've been in a long time. Love you guys. Mmm, I love you too, Kelsey. First of all, this is such an example of some the bravest thing. The bravest thing is sometimes doing the thing that everyone else will think was weak, was wimpy. That is some brave stuff, Kelsey. And then you can hear the joy and the freedom in her voice after

that decision. It's so awesome. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah, I think that my dogs are, I would say for sure, Lexa Pro and Honey and Hattie are the three most consistent yeah. Helpers of my mental health, 100%. And I, I see your wife. Oh, sorry, yes, also you. There's something that for, it's interesting that Kelsey hasn't eaten to sort of recovery

story because I think one of the things that's scary about people is that people all have are all conditioned. People all have their own conditioning, their social, gender, all of it, beauty conditioning. And so when you are recovering from something that has so much to do with the way you view yourself and the way the world treats you based on how you look, your outer shell, it's not fake that you're always dealing with other people's shit. You are always dealing with other people's shit. People react to you in certain ways based on how you appear in the world. And when you are someone who is recovering

from an indisorder, that stuff is not only triggering, but it's obvious. It's way more obvious than it is for other people. It's like, it's like seeing the matrix all the time. So you can see how people react better to you when you look a certain way or not as well to you insert way or you're worth more because you look the way that the time. So you can see how people react better to you when you look a certain way or not, as well as you can start with a certain way, you're worth more because you look the way

that the world has told you to do whatever it is. We see it all and feel it all. And dogs are the only beings or animals who don't. And there's none of that. Dogs are not socially conditioned. To me, that's why my dogs feel like such an incredibly safe place for me because they have not been affected by the world in ways that make them treat me in certain ways that makes me feel unsafe.

Right. So, yes, Kelsey. And also, you know, people like people who have anxiety or conditions that make us overthink everything and get lost in our minds, dogs are the immediate fix for that or cats or because they bring us back to like, okay, I just need to walk and I need to eat and I need to play and I need to sleep. And then that reminds you, oh yeah, so like really what I need to do is I just need to sleep. I need to eat. I need to play.

That's it. And I probably need to drink more water. Yeah. They bring you back to like the immediate small thinking that like big thinking screws you with. Okay, let's hear from our pod squadder of the week. Hello, my name is Leah, so I know Alex has the sea turtle and the fish has well it better apparently my four year old pod has all the animal captivity. They're recently not him to do against the hunter judgment because it's trying to do this progressive parenting thing

where I let him. We can always try to show that rather than like just pushing all of my things back in, which I still think that's a little bit more valid, but I still want to give him the space I grow to find his way, wow, whatever. Well, I'm a single parent and he saw all the animals, particularly the lion's and tigers, and all he could ask very morally, was where are their mums? And I'm going to post out their speeches.

I'm going to fast through those pages. We threw in their mums to which every other child looked at them, looked at their parents, said, we are all of their mums. And so I created an uprising at the National Zoo where many many toddlers were both confused, sad, mad, crying about where they're all the awful, sloppy sparks. So we are doing our part to untame ourselves as well is a photo and apparently on table. Thank you for everything you do. Oh, the uprising at the zoo.

Hell yes to that little troublemaker. Okay, so how first of all, I'm obsessed with because I was trying to do this progressive parenting thing where I let him make his own choices. Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah his own choices. Yada yada yada blah blah blah. First of all, yes, to blah blah blah. Okay, I hear you, I feel you on a molecular level with the blah blah blah. I also try to do the blah blah blah and it feels very blah blah blah to me.

But I would like to say to this parent, your blah blah blah trying to allow your kid to have their own vision and their own voice and their own instinct and trust it is f-ing working. Because you thought it was just that like you're trying to take them to the zoo, even they don't believe in zoos. But here they are showing up at the zoo and saying, f-this, raising their little little trouble maker hand, asking the tough questions, asking the tough questions. Here, little one is looking at the zoo saying, I thought it would be more beautiful than this. I can imagine a truer and more beautiful version of this. And so that little trouble maker says the thing, excuse me, I'm having feelings. And then all the other toddlers are like, hell, yes, I too was having those feelings at

this system. And we're all going to band together and turn it over. So the zoo become liberated. Yes to you. Yes to all of you people that are actually trying the Yada Yada. The blah blah blah. It's effing working y'all. Keep it up. We love you so much. Ask the hard questions this week. Raise your little toddler hand. Do the blah blah blah. Find the moments of ordinary and let the extraordinary take care of itself with your tiny little furry or scaled or feathered friends.

Oh, we love you. We'll see you next week. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine. you