We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - RUNNERS & CHEERERS: Marathon Life with Shalane Flanagan

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

1. How a marathon is an analogy for life: the danger of comparison, the ride of emotions and self-doubt, that love is fuel, and that the world needs both runners and cheerers.   2. The question Abby kept asking herself throughout the race—and why she’s still wearing her marathon medal while doing the dishes and running errands.  3. Why race day was so profound to Glennon— even though she is strongly committed to NOT running—and how she experienced her first sports injury while cheering.  4. A special visit by the kids’ middle school cross-country coach, Coach Loux, who became Abby’s marathon coach—and what she said at the 24-mile mark that shifted everything for Abby.   5. A conversation with marathon champion Shalane Flanagan about the bond and joy of running—and how she played a magical part of Abby’s marathon day. About Shalane Flanagan:  Dedicated to giving back to the sport she loves, Shalane Flanagan is now an elite coach to the Bowerman Track Club, global spokesperson, and a mom, after retiring as one of America’s most decorated distance runners. Flanagan’s accolades include four-time Olympian, Olympic silver medalist, 2017 TCS New York City Marathon champion, World Cross Country Bronze medalist, and multiple American record holder. She is the third fastest American marathoner in history, with a time of 2:21.14. Shalane is the fastest American woman to run the Boston Marathon, 2:22.02. Along with her coauthor, Elyse Kopecky, she is the 3-time New York Times bestselling author of Run Fast. Eat Slow. and Run Fast. Cook Fast. Eat Slow. and Rise & Run, which became an instant bestseller. Shalane attributes her long career and incredible success to her nutrient-dense diet. Shalane has left the track behind, but you’ll still find her logging high mileage on trail run adventures with friends! Recipes from all three of her cookbooks fuel these strenuous miles. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Okay, everybody here we are. Welcome back.

Welcome back to We Can't are. Welcome back. Welcome back to we can't do hard things. Oh, that's good then. Okay, so today before we jump into our very exciting pod, which I'm really psyched about, we want to tell you that Abby, Sister Amanda and I are very excited because we're going to hang out with you tonight at our live journal event to celebrate this week's launch of Get Untamed. The journal, it's our first live event together ever. I mean, except for like the rest of our lives that was formed together. Live.

It's the first live event, the three of us will be doing together. Where there's other people watching us. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you want to come, there's still time to register until 5 p.m. Eastern, there's literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people that are going to be there. Yeah, I think that over 10,000 people are going to be amazing.

Something crazy. Yeah. So it's going to be really fun. It'll be just like this, except with all of us together. So join us tonight live. And in real time, at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific. And again, you can still sign up before 5 p.m. Eastern. Get untamed journal dot com slash event. So we'll see you tonight. But now let's start the show. Why don't you tell us? I feel nervous. Yeah. So I just wanted to say that.

I feel nervous about what we're about to talk about. Okay. What I would like to tell everyone, because you can't see my sweet wife who's sitting next to you in the couch, is that why don't you explain to everyone why you've been wearing that huge golden medal around your neck all day long in our house while we've been doing laundry. Well, because I earned it. You earned it. And how did you earn it? around your neck all day long in our house while we've been doing laundry. Well, because I earned it.

You earned it. And how did you earn it? I completed the New York City Marathon. Woodward! Yes, and so the reason why I'm actually wearing this is because I feel like I'm only going to get about a week's worth of goodwill from my wife and family. And so I want to try to prolong that goodwill for my wife and family. And so I want to try to prolong that goodwill for as long as possible. So yes, I wear this around.

I also did this after the World Cup in the Olympics. You did. Yeah, because I just wanted people to not forget. Because people move on, man. Just like that. They're like, it's over. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I'm going to remind you for a solid week. And then I, and then I saw. Let's talk about the marathon because I'm so freaking proud of you. Can you tell everybody how the hell you ended up running a marathon? Okay. So just very briefly, about three years ago, I decided this is about two and a half years, two to two

and a half years after my retirement. I didn't really do much to work out. I thought that I, quite frankly, I thought that this body earned enough goodwill to never have to actually work out again. You thought that's how it would work? I did. I really, I desperately really wished. Yeah. But then my body just, I felt terrible. I didn't feel good. So I started, I decided, okay, I'm going to do the thing that takes the least amount of time that makes me feel the best and that burns the most calories. That was running.

But, I mean, by the way, I couldn't just start running. I had to start walking. You walked. I remember you started by walking. I started walking. And then I started walking is what I call it a walk jog, mostly walking at first, and then it turned into a jog. And then I started to like jog run.

And then I became a runner all of a sudden. When you are doing this over and over again, you have to like, you literally have to give yourself some sort of goal so as to not get burnt out or bored. I had a running friend, Katie Brodnick and Naples. Well, first let's say you tried to make me a running friend. She would come home. My precious hot sweat will understand this. She would come home and try so hard to get me to run with her and she would try to trick me in all these different ways. One time she came home and she said, babe, I just listened to this podcast ironically. And in it,

they said that if you, for every mile that you run, you add seven minutes to your life. So she said, it's, it's math, Glennon. Like you could actually extend to your life. So she said, it's math, Gleinen. Like you could actually extend to your life. And I said, okay, if you want to bring math into it, it takes me 17 minutes to run a mile. So if it adds seven, but take 17, I'm a litter, I'm losing 10 minutes of life for every mile I was running is killing me. It's

shortening my lifespan and that's math. So then you found this other friend to run with you. You doesn't understand math. Yeah. No. I don't think that's quite how it works, babe, but I see your point. I see your point. Yeah, so Katie and I, we became workout partners and fast friends. And so we started, you know, training for these things. We trained for a half marathon. And then when I completed my first half marathon, I thought, I guess the next step is a marathon. And somewhere on my bucket list,

my secret bucket list that I don't talk to people about, there is the marathon, right, to complete a marathon. And at that point, our kids were in middle, some of our kids were in middle school, and our middle school coach, coach Lou. Coach Lou! She every time we would go to their cross country meets, she would always just kind of like nag me,

like sign up for a marathon, like come on, do it, you know? Coach Lou is a magical angel who inspires middle schoolers to run and their parents. And their parents, but just like has helped, helped our family through so much. How to do a middle schooler to run for an extended period of time is a freaking marathon. Yeah, I think you can do that.

You can do anything. So there, there I was with the decision and I signed up for the 2020 marathon in New York City. Um, I think we all know how 2020 went. I marathon got canceled. Remember that day? That was like the best day of our lives. It was the best. Because you pretended to be sad for like 10 minutes. Yeah. You couldn't even fake it. Well, because it was many months before the event. So at least I didn't like train the entire time and then I got canceled at the last moment. That would have been horrible. I did do a couple of long runs, but not as many as I trained for this last one.

So I kept running throughout COVID. I just, that was what I was doing. That's kind of what I have become in this process. And I guess I found myself in New York City. Again, you know, like signing up for this marathon, I was actually able to coerce a couple of my teammates to train remotely with me, to run it with me. Like, actually, I was the Osborne, Lauren Cheney.

And there was actually a couple other women who trained with me. Lactually, I was the Osborne, Lauren Cheney. There was actually a couple other women who trained with us, but had injuries, had their mits, and Kate, Mark Raff, former teammates. And to me, that was so special to be able to reconnect with all of them in a physical way. Even though we weren't doing it together, it felt like a good accountability. When we moved to California, some of the women who lived at More on the East Coast or Midwest, they would text like that run was brutal. Yeah, you guys really reconnected during that time.

So we find ourselves in New York City. So we're in the cab. We're in the cab and you turn to me and you say What can I do for you this weekend to make sure that Sunday goes as perfectly as it possibly can? Yeah, that was an important moment because I noticed that you got like really quiet You told me it was kind of like how you used to get on game day. Yeah, I was going in a free game I was going in a game day mode. Yeah, but I've never experienced that before because I wasn't we weren't together I know it's so interesting. But we were in the cabin. I was like, why isn't she talking to me? Like this, she doesn't not talk like to her alert level red. Why

she not talking? Is she choking on something? And you were in the mode. I was ruminating about the whole thing. I was processing. I was thinking about every little detail, because I know that those small details matter. Yeah. Right. And I think that you caught on that I wasn't really being present. So I asked you. Yeah.

So you asked me, and I think that, I think that that might be like one of the most important things that could have happened to me that weekend, because I think I was contemplating how the hell am I gonna do this, and also take care of you. Yeah, cause Padsquad, we were going to New York City. So I often get lost on the way from my pantry to the family room. So you can imagine how Abby was feeling

about a weekend in New York City when she might be distracted and Chase is coming. Yeah, a little side wrinkle. Chase was on a train coming from college to also come and be with us. So you were worried about us. Yeah, it was a little stress. So you asking me that question was wonderful. And how did I respond? You said, you looked at me. You turned to me in the cab. And you said, honey, what I need from you this weekend is that I just really need you to pay attention. Pay attention, Glenin.

Pay attention, Glenin. And damned if I didn't say pay attention, Glenin to myself every minute of every day of that weekend. I tried so hard. I think that Glenin does paint like a good picture for you in terms of the like how she experiences the world. And it's not far off. Glenin, you know, I'm constantly vigilant. Like is she stepping in the way of oncoming traffic? Is she on her phone, not knowing that somebody's gonna crash into her and like, when you're in New York City, it is a not a forgiving place.

No, I'm being vigilant also. I'm just being vigilant to things on the inside of me, to my imagination, to my brain, to my heart. That's right. I was feeling this. I was telling you, you can't be totally on your inside world all the time. In, in New York City You got to come out and join join join us pay attention and we did and you went and did all of your

Pre-marathon things chase and I navigated New York City Chase is you know, he gets lost on his inner world, too Uh-huh, so we kept we were walking by each other Through Times Square. We were both going pay attention. Pay attention. And then we went to see Brandi, our friend Brandi Carlyle perform Joni Mitchell's blue at freaking Carnegie Hall. Yeah, that was so special. It was unbelievable. And then we stayed for that and then the next morning tell us about. Well, I had to actually I had to get out of there early because I was stressing

about hydrating. They wouldn't let me bring any water bottles inside. It was them so beautiful, but I had to go drink water. And I wish you guys could have seen the Brandy Carlisle, Joni Mitchell tribute concert. There were so I feel I told Brandy we should have had a designated survivor for that night because had something happened at Carnegie Hall we would have had no queer elder lesbian people left on the planet. They were all there. All there. It was the it was joy. It was just utter joy.

I just wanted to like close the doors and just everyone lived there. I don't know if anybody just picked it up but Glenin just called herself a queer elder. Did you hear it? She said we. I'm going to get a tattooed on my forehead. I want to be like a queer aunt. I want to be a queer godmother, fairy godmother, for all of the young I want to. Yes. Okay, go ahead.

So now it's game day. Now it's marathon morning. Yeah, well, I had to get back to the hotel that night and set up my clothes because I knew you would come home and I didn't want to disturb you and chase like Chase is like on a cot in our hotel room. And I didn't want to disturb you. I had to wake up at 4.30 in the morning. And then I was just like, I've never run a marathon before.

And so I was like, I guess I'll just do it like I would do a national team game. Right. So I woke up and I took a shower just do it. Like I would do a national team game. So I woke up and I took a shower and I did all of the little, like literally every little ritual that I did with a national team I was doing by myself in the little bathroom. Like, and you know when you take a shower in the winter,

it just gets steamy. So I was like trying to put my clothes on and it was like all sticking to my body. It was not ideal. But I did it. I got on the bus with Lauren and Leslie. And there we went. Like we, the bus drove us to Staten Island and we happened to get there. The way that it works is there's so much traffic that so many people condensing Down into one spot you have to go super early and so you sit there for three hours Till the start awful just worrying it Talk about

hyper analyzing Hi, like you're there for as long as maybe the race will last right for some of the runners. And so all of us are kind of in this little area. Every one of us has you know I have like a belt that I'm carrying my food in goo or whatever you want to call it any kind of calorie. I have my phone I've got headphones in case like I need it. So then you start. So the race starts and it's like, you're running over this initial bridge,

that's that nylon bridge, and it's like a two mile long situation. Oh, the bridge is two miles to start off with, and there's 30,000 people running. Yes, so we are, we happen to be at the front. Okay. And so I realized I turned back and I saw some signs that were like three hour pace, three hour and 15 minute pace, three hour 30 pace. And those are not our pastimes. So lots of people had to run past us. Right. So I had to like tell us, I was like,

hey, listen, if a lot of people pass us, like don't freak out. Like, these are national teams. These people do not like to be passed. That's right. Let them pass and we will find our little niche. So we're running and we get over the bridge and the way that the marathon is,

the course is structured is you go over five bridges, I think it is. And no fans are allowed on the bridges, but fans are allowed everywhere else. And every other inch of that course, there was a human being cheering us on. It was, I mean, honestly, like, I don't know how else to describe it other than the word magic. I mean, those first five miles, we were running faster than we planned to. We kept saying slow down, we need to slow our pace down because our legs are gonna go.

So yeah, the first half of the marathon truly was magic. I feel like it's the hardest physical human experience that I've ever done. And running with my teammates was special, especially because I felt, you know, people who know me, people who've trained with me know that fitness was never something that I loved to do. In fact, I hated it, right? So doing this thing, doing the New York City Marathon was a huge deal. So you're running the first half.

Yep. And the first half, the first half of the race, you said was awesome, right? Yeah, okay. Yeah, it was amazing. And then the second half hits, there was this long bridge and my friends were like start to creep ahead of me.

And I'm like, what the hell is going on? Sure enough, they're feeling great still. And I am now about to hit the wall. And the wall was brutal. And the wall never ended. Like I never got my legs back. I never felt good again. I just

it was brutal for the rest of the rest of the time. Lauren ended up going a little bit ahead of us. Leslie was like, please, I'm running with you and I literally had to beg her. I was like around mile 22, I think. I said, Leslie, if you don't run faster and go ahead of me, I'm going to be so pissed. I love you and I will meet you at the finish line. But how sweet that she wanted to stay with you. I know. So what got you through that last time was Alex. It was Alex's sign, right? Yeah. Our dear friends Alex and Jody were there with us.

Yeah, they were there. The night before Alex asked me, what is a word that I can say to you that will trigger some sort of response like a run faster like make you get through it. And I thought about it for a second and I said rather than a word, I would like you to ask me a question and the question was who are you now? So lo and behold Alex made a poster that said who are you now? Well, made a poster that said, who are you now? Well, the irony of this whole thing is all I thought about through the whole race was, who are you now? And every mile, babe, I swear, every single mile, the answer was different. The first mile was like, awesome. It's wrong. Easy. No problem, right?

And then as the miles kind of went on, the words and my answer kind of shifted in different ways. Pain and sadness, there were some miles with grief. But like one of the things that I'm so proud of is that all I had to do to keep moving through those emotions was just keep running. Just to keep putting one step in front of the other. And in the end, it was my 24, I was running alone at that point. And so I turned on my headphones and I played

the playlist, the very first playlist I ever sent you. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I wanna talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food.

I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy?

You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. You told me you realized that you were so freaking exhausted and so out of everything that you realized the only thing that was gonna get you through the last two miles was love.

That's right. And so you put on, which has so many slow songs, I can't believe that you finished the marathon with all those slow-low songs. Yeah, but that's what moves me, you know? Like that's love. And I don't know, I think that those first and 24 miles, I feel like I truly experienced

the entirety of the human experience, like every emotion possible. And then I decided, okay, love is gonna be the thing that gets me through this. And then it made me realize in the end, after thinking about it, I think that actually all of those emotions are love. Like I think that's what it is. It's not like, they're not separate.

They're all together. Yeah, they're all together. They're all together. And it's so interesting, because you think, well, the point of the marathon, I mean, it's such a spiritual experience. We think it's to survive the physicality of it, but really, when you talk about it, it feels like it's to survive every emotion that people go through being human. All in one event. That's right. You

go through all of it and survive all of it by just continuing to move forward. That's right. A hell of a metaphor if I do say so myself. Well, I just continuing to move forward. That's right. It's a hell of a metaphor if I do say so myself. Well, I just want to talk real about your experience. Yeah, let's please. I mean, my God, that was a lot of meat. It was. And I really do truly feel like this was my marathon. Okay, because I just want you to know anyone who's been listening to me speak my words for some time knows that

I tried out for cheerleading like five times I think, maybe six, I don't know in middle school and high school. I was, I'm horribly uncoordinated, I don't know why I thought that it was ever going to work, but I just so desperately wanted to like belong. I felt like if I had a uniform, that was, would be proof that I belonged. So that is what I wanted more than anything, but I kept failing at it. So the point where my dad was like, you need to stop embarrassing with him. I'm really pleased.

We know we told you you could do anything and we want to amend that. And you can do anything except. Great. Congratulations. Yeah. So the thing is this weekend at the marathon, I fulfilled my lifelong dream of becoming. I was an un-fucking believable cheerleader. That's my thought.

OK, I want to explain to you all, you're standing on the streets of New York City. OK, you have your signs. You get there. There's thousands of other people on the streets of New York City, and there are people running by you who have been running in the streets for miles, hours, and they are old, and they are young, and they are medium, and they are in wheelchairs, and they are on feet, and they are, you know, fists in the air and they are heads down crying and they are just committed for some God knows reason to continue moving forward and it is the most inspiring thing I have ever seen in my entire life. I screamed.

And then the most amazing thing you guys is that y'all is that a lot of them write their names on their bips. Okay. a lot of them write their names on their lips. Okay, so you can scream out their names, okay? And you see somebody running and they look so tired and they look like they're about to give up. And then you see their name and you scream their name. You say, Helen, looking strong, Helen, Helen, yeah, you're a marathoner, Helen.

And you just see Helen, like, you could actually see the love that you offer from a stranger from the street. Go into a stranger who's running and fuel them. You watch love from a stranger fuel somebody else. Do you still hear my, what what the marathon was five days ago? And if I sound extremely sultry and sexy today, it's because I still am getting my voice back five hours of screaming.

And what I want the pod squad to know is that there were many pod squadters running in this marathon. OK, so what this amazing thing that happened is where I kept screaming at people go, Jacqueline, go, missy, whatever. And they'd turn around and they'd go, go ahead and, hey, we can do hot things. And or whatever.

And I just also holding a sign that said, Abby, Abby can do hot things. Abby can do hot things. Yeah, but they'd turn and say, go ahead and then they'd keep running. And then I'd scream for someone else. And then they'd say, go ahead and then lady next to me after a while. There's a lady cheering next to me and she turns to me and she says,

my gosh, you know so many people. It's just wonderful. And I was like, I know, I know. But the point is that I really truly believe that anyone whose heart is hurting or who has, you know, lost a little faith in humanity should freaking go and Stand and cheer at a marathon. That's right because it is seeing strangers love other strangers and seeing this triumph of the human spirit and And triumph of humanity coming together to show each other on was healing. I want in my retirement That's what I want to be. I want to just be a professional marathon cheerer. I love it when you talk about retirement. Yeah. So can you tell them, babe, about crossing the finish line? Because this was a really special

situation. Well, first and foremost, before I got our playlist going, I called Coach Lou. I know. I FaceTime Coach Lou at the 24th mile because I wanted her to experience this. She was, she was back in Naples, I think, and she did our program through and through. So I was so, I just was overcome with like gratitude for her and I wanted her to be included in this moment. So I FaceTime her real quick. And she mentioned to me, you're ahead of schedule. And I was like, oh my gosh, for the last two miles, since Leslie went ahead of me, I've been feeling bad about myself.

I was like, that I didn't do good, or I wasn't doing it fast enough. And here she was, she was like, you're a schedule, and I'm like, holy shit. I'm about to finish this marathon ahead of the schedule that I had planned. It's amazing. Isn't that a beautiful metaphor whenever we compare ourselves to other people that were behind? That's right. And we need somebody to remind us, listen everyone listening, this is Glennon saying to you, into your earballs, you are a head of schedule. Well, when you're running through Central Park, because that's at the end, the last bit, I just, the 25th mile, I got a little emotional

and I started to cry inside. I started to like, you know, and people were cheering me on. Some people recognized me, which was so outrageous. And I finally get to the finish line. I finally get to stop running. And so I walked across the finish line. I was so grateful to be there that I really wanted to like take in that moment. And so I slowed myself down enough to literally walk across

that finish line. And when I looked up, Shalene Flanagan was in my face and putting the metal around my neck. Tell these people in case any of them don't know who Shalene Flanagan is. Well, first of all, she was my running idol. In 2017, she won the New York City Marathon. She's an Olympian. She is a retired professional runner, marathoner. She's an author. She's a mom. She's amazing. And that I will never be an elite runner. She has always been an idol of mine. And also, by the way, like an idol of Coach Lou.

And she finished and waited an hour and a half. Yeah, sadly, we had to wait an hour and a half. That's how fast she finished the marathon. But what was so special about her is since COVID, the marathon's kind of got rescheduled all grouped together. So she was able to schedule a challenge for herself that she would run six marathons in six weeks. And this New York City marathon would be her last. So did you hear that? Sweet Pots Quatters. Six Marathons. And six weeks.

Six weeks. Marathons in six weeks. And then she has inspired Abby so much. And she waited so that she could be the one to put the metal over Abby's head. I walked up and saw the end of that. And was like, well, now I'm dead. I will never see anything more precious than that.

She's amazing. I actually saw her at the start line. And I kind of sought her out like, well, now I'm dead. I will never see anything more precious than I was. She's amazing. I actually saw her at the start line. And I kind of sought her out because we had been DMing on IG and sure enough, she was like, oh my gosh, here you are. And I was like, OK, I'll see you later. I mean, never did I think for one second that she of all people who had just run, if I had just run six marathon

for six weeks, I would be in the hospital. And there she was still standing by the finish line with her medallon, putting my medallon. And speaking of Shalane Flanagan, showing up at the most perfect times ever, dedicated to giving back to the sports she loves. Shalane Flanagan is now an elite coach to the Bowerman Trot Club, Global Spokesperson, and a mom. After retiring as one of America's most decorated distance runners, Flanagan's accolades include Four-Time Olympian, Olympian Silver Medalist,

2017 TCS New York City Marathon Champion, World Cross Country Bronze Medalist, and multiple American record holder. She's the third fastest American marathoner in history. Shalene is the fastest American woman to run the Boston marathon in two hours, 22 minutes and two seconds. Along with her co-author, Elise Copecchi,

she is the three-time New York Times best-selling author of Run Fast Eat Slow and Run Fast Cook Fast Eat Slow and Rise and Run run which became an instant best seller. We have Shalane Flanagan here with us. The one who does the hardest things. Pad Squad just so you know what we have going on right now. We have the two heroes who helped Abby through her.

That's right. Marathon. We have coach Lue who trained her and also our entire family physically, emotionally. That's right. Yeah. So we have the Shalene and Coach Lue, you're a big fan of Shalene. I am. I am a big fan and I have to tell you that what you've done for girls and running is incredible and I want you to know that when we talk about marathon running and my PE classes and coaching and the kids after the 2017 New York City marathon, they came back to the class and like, wow, watching Marathons are fun So it was just like and also coaching girls and trying to talk about nutrition

When you came out it was incredible because that awkwardness of talking about performance and running with girls It's so tricky. It's it's almost I don't want to see impossible But I was able to take your book and give it as gifts to my runners and my girls. You have no idea how far reaching. But just writing that book as a coach of 31 years to be able to say we can now have this conversation. Yeah. It is you have no idea. And I don't know if Abby told you that there's a little girl on our cross country club at Gulf Coast runners.

Her name is Shalane. And she was named after you. So she's five-fold. And she's, so we're like, oh, Shalane, she's five. And so it's just, oh my god. I don't know if you realize the impact on running and just your professionalism and what you do for women and sports and I'm just a huge fan. I need a pep talk from you every day. That's right.

Like all of us, we all put our head down and we work hard and we hope we reach people by you know pursuing our passions and you know giving and being in a service but you never, sometimes you don't know, you don't know what impact it is having. And so I appreciate you sharing that with me because it fills me up to keep working hard at what I do. And yeah, it's, it's awesome. And this board is incredible. I've met the most amazing people through running.

So yeah, thank you for sharing that with me. I'm curious, I want to know, I want to know how Abby was as an athlete for you. Like, was she coachable or was she like, I know it all? Like, that's what I'm always curious. Like you take an athlete from a different background and like, are they as coachable? Like, he's extremely appreciative and willing to do whatever.

And the dilemma in this training cycle with COVID was very difficult. I really thought at times that she was going to say, yeah, this is just not going to be for me. And I was like, because when she first started training, she was on part to really have an amazing pace and time. And I was eager for her to run and see, to prove to herself what she can do. And so when it was canceled, I started to worry. So I would give her a lot of space and then every now and again I would check in and say, Hey, I'm still thinking of you, just checking in. So I kind of did accountability, but not over too much.

Just enough to go. I'm still waiting. And what do you need for me? Are you ready for the next cycle? So I knew there was a point that There was where I think she was questioning as she could answer that but then her strength training coach I think really had a big difference in her and it really so the lot of the running that she had done really allowed that Strength training allowed her to keep some of that. And I told her a while back that,

because she was gonna do other marathons, and I'm like, you're a New Yorker. You have to have your first marathon has to be the New York. Marathon, Marathon. My first marathon was New York, and I'm from Boston, so that says a lot. Okay. I knew from day one that it was the best one in the world.

So, unfortunately, you've kind of like peak to marathoning life. Abby, like, good. If you can't get better than that, I have run a million races around the world. And it's better than the Olympics. It's better than anything. It's so good. Yeah. I told her that the best thing is when she comes to the finish line is that Shalane planning is going to say her name and then the whole thing happened that's week and I'm like are you kidding me? Shalene how did you how in the sand how did you, how in the sand? How? Did you decide to run six marathons and six, like, in six weeks? Like, just please explain to us how this happened. And did you have one day between two of those marathons to recover?

Yeah, a little less than 24 hours, yeah. Yeah, the shanker. When I finished Boston, yeah. The answer of of everything is because I can um and that because I feel like at times we don't have to like justify our goals all the time to everyone, but like because I can like I have the ability and I love it um but there are a lot of layers to why I wanted to do it. So the long answer is, one, I retired in 2019, shortly thereafter, I had double reconstructive

knee surgeries, which was brutal. I didn't run for a year, and during that year, I switched to becoming a coach and we immediately hit a pandemic. And so it was like this goalless abyss and coming from being such a goal-oriented background and an athlete and using my body, I didn't understand the connectedness between mental health and physical health. For me, moving my body 100% improves my mental well-being.

And so retiring and losing kind of that self identity, for me, moving my body, 100% improves my mental well-being. And so retiring and losing kind of that self identity, I felt like in a head imposter syndrome becoming a coach. And I just was struggling, really hard, like everyone. I had this one really shining light of adopting my son, Jack, so that was wonderful, but I felt this need to like reclaim my body and my mind again. And I needed a hard goal. I needed something that was going to take me out of my comfort zone. Give me something to train for. I'm not, I'm going to a driven person, but I'm not, I need goals. I need something to hold me accountable and to get excited about. And when I saw

this schedule release with the Abit World majors running all six of them because of the pandemic, I thought, wow, it's like a once in a lifetime opportunity to run all six within 42 days. And I thought, someone should do that. And then I'm like, but then I was like, why not me? I could be capable of that.

And as long as my knees were capable of it, I certainly in my head was capable of it. And I thought, what better way to celebrate running in the running community reuniting? And I just felt like I wanted to bring my girlfriends along with me and go on a running adventure around the world. And we did it. And I had the most fun I've ever had running

in my entire life. And it was, yes, it was just, it was like reuniting with my best friend. I didn't realize how important running was to me until it was taken away. It was like just a lot lighter. I like to describe it as like a different texture of a relationship for me with running. It was so serious when I was a professional athlete. It was about winning and it was about setting records and it was just, it was harsher.

It was a lot of like weight I was carrying. And now running for me, I call it like I play running. You know, other sports like soccer, you get to play soccer. You know, it's awkward to say play running, but I just, I feel like that's important to feel joyful and playful with what you do and I just felt the need to get back out there and my own kind of context of what running was for me. Do you know what? Hold on a second. We just have to go back to the thing that she started with. You don't have to explain your goals to anybody. Yeah, because I can. Oh, shit.

Damn. I also would like to say, because I can't, because how many people asked me, I don't know, are you gonna run why? Why not? Because I can't. That's right. And I don't have to explain that, right?

If Shillin doesn't have to explain, I can. Then you don't have to explain why you can't. That's right. I love the play running Shillinigh, not I've I noticed a difference in myself when I used to say I have to work on my book or I have to work on this podcast or I have to work on whatever. And when I say I get to play with this story or I when I say it differently, it feels different. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I get that.

What are you do? I get to run or I get to do this instead of like a half-do, it's a huge mental shift. So yes. And you know, just so you know, like we, we're not going to sit here and talk all the ways through the marathon or your running career. Like I actually just want to get to know you as a human being, especially now that you are no longer competing professionally, though what you just did for those six weeks is like outrageous, and it feels like a professional thing that you just did. Like, what are you into? Like, what are the things that you,

like, what is a day in the life of Shalane look like? Um, I like feeling like needed, for sure, and I like to be busy. Um my day is heavily includes family and coaching. And so, you know, my son, he is one and a half years old. So he is not in any day carry yet. So my husband and I are like full time with him. Fortunately here in Portland, I have my sister who lives across the river and the most current 300 meters up the road. So, we have a nice little family pod of support.

So Jack's well taken care of with family and myself and my husband and my husband's a high school cross country and track coach. So our schedules are really nice. I'm in the morning with the professional athletes training on the Nike campus. And then basically I get to hang out with Jack the rest of the day and do fun podcasts like this or work on cookbooks or recipe testing. And then, you know, my husband has a evenings where he is with working with high school kids. So it's, I feel like we feel really fulfilled in getting to work with incredible people. What do you, what is, because I know that running,

you had to develop an immense amount of resilience, mentally, physically, emotionally. What in your life now, because I know you're still running, I know that you still do that, but what in your life now is the thing that makes you have to, it's like the transference. Like you bring that and you you plop it right into your like daily life. What is the thing in your daily life that you have to like bring that kind of resilience to?

Um, well, I think parenting. I was hoping you were going to say that actually. Parenting is not easy. And Jack isn't even like, I'm not like, I'm like kind of just keeping him alive at this point. It's not like you're parenting quite yet. I mean, we're starting to like feel like I'm having a mold on him. And that's why I wanted to bring him to all these marathons I ran around the world in the country is I want him, you know, impacted by the people I'm with.

I think they're the great people. So, yeah, I think parenting and it's exhausting and it's wonderful and it's hard. And but he gives me a tremendous amount of purpose. I call him my life enhancer. He is just every day like I go to like wake him up in the morning or get him. And I'm like, dude, you got cooler and cuter at the same time in like 24 hours. Like how did you do that? Like it's fascinating to watch children grow.

And man, I want a lot of kids in the future. I think they're super fun. And so to me, bringing like my A game every day to make sure I take care of him, that right there, that's a hard job. Takes a lot of goo. Takes a lot of, I mean goo. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. I mean, you know, the things, the other things that I like, I'm desperate to know about you, like, are there things in your life that feel hard? Because if you run the way that you have run in your life, by the way, folks, Shalane finished all of her six marathons in six weeks and under two hours. And I think 47 minutes for each marathon, which is sub six minute marathon pace, six minute mile pace.

Yeah. I think if you at someone the other day, it was like, oh, you average, if you average them all to altogether. I average six-minute mile pace for across all of them. So, yeah. That's wild. I mean, I don't, it's incomprehensible to me what you've achieved. But to me, it's like, that feels so hard in like every possible way. What is the hardest thing that you're actually dealing with in your life right now, other than parenting? Is there something extraordinarily hard or even mildly hard that you're going through

right now? Well, first of all, six marathon, some 42 days was hard. But like, what have you done for us lately, Shillin? Yeah, absolutely. First of all, I just don't want done for us lately, Shillin? Yes, absolutely. First of all, I just don't want that to think, oh, that's easy for me. It's not easy. And that's why I wanted to do it.

I needed to, for me, when we do things, when we choose to do hard things, I feel most alive. I feel the most beautiful and the most alive when I'm running. I do. Even though I'm sweaty and I'm grinding it out, I feel the best about myself. So I, you know, especially when you get to choose the hard thing that you want to do,

like that's obviously different. But yeah, I think trying to find my way in the coaching world, you know, the phrase like you can't be what you can't see in track and field and just in the coaching world and of what I'm in. There are not a lot of female coaches to emulate and to look up to. So I'm trying to find my way in a world that is just, it's male, heavy for sure. And so I'm trying to figure out like and I have great mentors and they're all men.

So I'm just trying to figure out how I can do the best possible job as a coach. And hopefully there's some little girls out there that are like, oh, I want to get into coaching too at that level. There are plenty of amazing female coaches at a variety of other levels, but this professional level. It's very male dominant. And so to me, it's hard trying to figure out

where I fit in and what are my strengths and what are my assets and not feel like an imposter at times. I show up to the Olympic Games and I look around and I'm like me. There's maybe like one or two other female coaches and so just trying to navigate that and make sure I do a great job. Obviously inspire more females to get into coaching. Do you have a cohort of, because we hear this from so many women, because in every lane, there are the ones like you, right?

The women that have no one ahead of them to look, so they're just pioneers. They can't follow anybody. Yeah. Do you have a cohort of other women who are in other industries, but in your similar situation? Yes. Yeah.

You know, someone that used to run the New York Road Hunters and the TCS New York City Marathon, Mary Wittenberg. She has been someone who I've looked up to for a long time and she used to be there. And now she's dabbled in cycling and other sports and run some major companies. And I'm always, I met with her for coffee the day after in New York and just picked her brain on, you know, how can I, how can I learn from you? How can I, you know, what, what am I doing wrong? Just assessing everything and having, having someone like Mary and there's a variety of other women, but for sure she's been someone I've looked up to. I mean reading incredible books I'm constantly trying to read for inspiration

and learn from the best. You have written a book. You and your friend Elise. Kopecki, do you say? Kopecki, yes. She was there at the finish. Yeah. Yes, I remember Lee rise and run. It's a cookbook also recipes, rituals and runs to feel your day. Elaine, we're raising two girls. I have dealt with eating disorders my whole life. And so I am scared shitless constantly to talk to my girls about food because I'm so scared of saying the wrong thing. I'm so and so I love what coach Lu said about your book being a way to talk about food as something that we do so that we can fuel so that we can perform so that we can instead of about how we look. That's right. Right. So it's not about how we appear. It's not how we feel and about how we can move. And it just feels like hopeful. How is it writing a cookbook? Because I love cooking. Yeah. So this is our third book. And I'll be

honest at the beginning. At least and I came up with this idea over just a home cooked meal. And I was expressing to her how I wanted to extend my career a few more years to make another Olympic team. And but I just felt under-fueled and under-nourished. And I didn't feel like I knew how to fuel myself for these long races, like the marathon, and that I was just feeling kind of just blah. Like I didn't have enough energy.

And she just come back from culinary school, and granted Elise had been working at Nike in sports marketing and a full successful job and she pivoted hard to go to culinary school because she just felt this pull and draw that Americans were under fueling and not eating the right food. And there was a lot of diet trends and misinformation. She and I grew up in the area of, area of like low fat and no fat diet. And so we came up with this idea to start using me as kind of a guinea pig from what she

learned in culinary school, which was to incorporate the healthy fats, you know, the avocado, the olive oil, to indulge in delicious food. And it should be nourishing and indulgent and satiating. And as soon as I started to eat the way she was recommending, there's no calorie counts, no grams of this, no grams of that. Because that makes you crazy.

In my mind, makes me crazy. And she's like, we only need you to be worrying about like the splits on your watch and how many miles you're running each week. You shouldn't be worrying about all that. So in all of our books, there's no, and it drives some people crazy because they're not used to it, but we don't have calorie counts. We don't do that. And I felt energized as soon as I started to change my diet, the way Elise had recommended. So I was like, we have to share this information. Like maybe someone

will publish us. Maybe they won't. So we called it like Shalane and Elise is like cooking project. And before you knew it, though, we were published by a real publisher. And we became a New York Times best seller, which was like, so we just, now we're on our third book. There's just more about us. And the emphasis and overall message is how you start your day can transcend and affect the whole rest of the day. And even like the night before, how you prepare and the rituals, impact that next whole day. And it's just like those little things, just really make this big difference. Tell us about some little things because I'll tell you the truth, that's what got me about the title of your book.

It wasn't, you know, it wasn't the rise and run part. Yeah. Yeah. But the rituals, yeah, I don't think we pay enough attention to the little rituals in our days that really do tell me thing. What are some of yours?

Well, so, you know, the night before, I definitely as soon as Jack goes down, I try to prepare for the next day. And so that, if that means, like, meal prepping, so that we can have a less hectic morning, like, when you have kids and you're trying to get them off to school, and Jack's not that age yet, but I can sense, like, there's this anxiousness and busyness and to, like, enjoy each other's company. So I prepped the night before as best I can.

But then in the morning, I really try to be excited for the day. And so one ritual that Jack and I have is music is really, for some reason, speaks to me. So I put on music every single morning, and it's a different genre. It could be rap, it could be reggae, who knows. And he and I do a little dance party.

And to me, that's our ritual of how we start our morning. Just dancing and some good music, good vibes. Sometimes just simple. It's like lighting a candle. So for me, lighting a candle like that nice glow. And then just like some good music. And then to me, coffee is very ritualistic. And then just having good food that you feel like

is gonna give you energy for the rest of the days is essential. I agree with you when I had little ones, it was so important to me because I could be in a crappy mood and not feel like being like an energetic, awesome mom, but when you put on music, it feels like you're being an awesome mom. Like you're doing so. You kind of have to fake your way. I have a saying that I got from a life coach.

He's like mood follows action. So like, you have to just kind of go do the thing. So I like make myself dance. I may not be in the mood too, but I make myself dance. And then before I know, my mood has shifted. So that applies to so many things, training, whatever. But the mood follows the action has been like my motto

the last year. That's kind of how I feel about what the marathon was for me. I wish I could turn around and just like interview Abby and the experience that YouTube had in New York. I just think like the marathon for me, it was an experience of like learning what it was to become human and then realizing like maybe it was like an experience to every step was like to realize like I am not specifically those emotions, you know, like that. You can get through them, you are not them.

They passed through you. That's exactly right. But yeah, you can't go in. That's what I kept thinking when you were saying that. Like, you were the one, you weren't the emotion. You were having the emotion. You were the one who continued on despite of the emotion. That's right.

That's right. Like, when you realize you are the observer, you're not the feeling. That's right. Because if you realize you are the observer, you're not the feeling. That's right. Because if you indulge in all of those feelings, you wouldn't get to the finish line. It has to be very, you have to push through them. I wish there was like these bubbles that would pop up over the top of runners heads because it would be amazing to see what people think about. Because it, you, you go through such like a transformative journey in those 26 miles. You go from elated thinking, like, I've got this, I'm going to crush this to then the next mile, you're like, oh, I definitely

don't have this. This is bad. You start to get really negative and then working through that negative talk. It's like the roller coaster is insane, what can happen in 26 miles. So that's why people are so emotional, I feel like when they finish, because I work through a lot of stuff out there to get to this finish line. Not just in the race, but in the training too, like the training to me is like transformative in itself,

but then the actual 26 miles, it asks a lot of you, physically and mentally, and I think more, more so the mental aspect is big. You can completely talk yourself out of getting to that finish line very easily. Yes. Because there's so many seconds that you can actually stop running. Yes. Sweetheart, you said to me when she finished, she got past you, she got through the emotional

coronation. And then she got to me and, she got through the emotional coronation. And then she got to me and I said, are you okay? And she said, well, the thing about her exact words were the thing about finishing a marathon is that you can't stop running ever. And I was like, yeah, I think that's right. She had stopped ever. I feel like we knew that before, that this, but that's, it was blowing in mind

that you didn't stop for three hours and 40 minutes. Yeah, it's one of the things that I'm most proud of in my life. Yeah, yeah. That's why she's still wearing the medal three days later. I'm not gonna love it. Shelly, and we talked just before we end. I just want to talk about, because when you say the trauma and getting through one mile feeling like you're on top of the world

have got this, the next mile you're feeling, I don't got this. I mean, truly, when you're talking, that's how I feel all day. Like I'm not even being funny. That's how my whole day is. That's right. And that's why I think some people with like excited depression, we don't need. That's how my whole day is. That's right. And that's why I think some people

with like excited depression, we don't need to run the marathon. We're like, how you like us now. That's how Tuesday is for us, OK? That's a Tuesday. So, but I do want to talk about how do you feel about the cheers on the side? Because Shilin, I had one of the most inspiring days of my life watching you all run because I felt like, you know, the world, I really had this feeling of like

the world needs runners. They need people that that are doing this thing, but the runners need the cheers. That's right. It's a symbiotic relationship. It is essential. Like, why was New York so special? It's not, yes, the runners were great, but it's the fans. I mean, I have never felt the intensity, and I don't know if it's supposed to, you know, COVID,

but I have never felt so much love and intensity being thrown at the runners that I did this last marathon. That's why I said to Abby, I'm like, I think you may have peaked because this was the best New York I've ever been a part of. It was insane. I mean, people know how I,

oh, I mean, I had chills and like my body, like every hair was standing up, like I, when I think about it, like, I just felt like my, my sensors were like on fire. It was intense, and it's, that's what, like, it literally fuels people forward. They, they know that they're going to get to the finish line because of the love that they're receiving from the sidelines. It makes it a whole new experience.

I don't think people realize that that's what's so special about the marathon is that relationship that they have with the people who are on the side of the road supporting. That is everything. It makes it worthwhile. Well, and you won the 2017 New York City marathon. And I can imagine everybody knows you as you're running. So you must experience just shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- shh- sh I was like, yeah, yeah, I see somebody knows me. I got to go a little bit faster.

Yeah, everybody must have said, Jolain, like that must be so energetic just to go through. I mean, if you're not, if we're not on a bridge, we're on a street and there are people there. It was just, there's nothing look quite like it. And probably coming from COVID, you guys, because it was like, we were all so alone and to be in a space where strangers, we had all been through this thing where we were all

locked in our homes. And then to be in this space where strangers were together again and connected and loving each other and cheering for each other without knowing each other was just, it was like the antithesis of everything we'd just been through. It was like the healing of the brokenness of before. I just have to say, before we end here, I've met a lot of inspiring people in my life

and for the most part, what they do is really amazing with their sport. But there's something different about the running community that I've never really quite experienced before. And I don't know when you're out on the course, I just had this feeling like we were all strangers, but we were all the same. There's this unification or a mold, a smushing of human beings or something. It's hard to explain. I feel like you having been such a leader and still being a leader as a coach. I just think that you are one of, if not the most badass human beings I've ever especially, but just like it's so incredible what you have been able to do with

your life and not just because you're a great winner, but because you're such an incredible supporter of other women and of other human beings. That's what makes me feel like you're a magical little running elf shillings land again. I'm like speechless right now. Like that that really means the world coming from both of you like you have no idea and I think I messaged you Abby that morning. I was like the running community is so excited to have you be a part of this journey because you know what your journey was the same as mine like we took those same steps we covered the the same distance, the same road. And that's what I think I love about running is like,

Bob who finishes in nine hours goes through the same thing that I went through. We really did. I know my steps were a little bit quicker than Bob's, but at the end of the day, like, we went through the same thing and to share that, it's, there is just a formation and a bond that, it's just like, if someone's like, I've run a marathon to, oh, I know you,

like, they like, they get you. So yeah, I hope you're excited to take on more adventures. I don't know if you've said another goal, I don't have a goal yet, you know, beyond just getting back to some other things in my life. But yeah, I just let me know the next time you run a marathon, I want to be there. It was so great to be there for you and be with you and meet your family. You have an awesome support team clearly.

Your coach is great. Coach Lewis. Coach Lewis Austin. And we're in LA. Will you come visit us? Bring little Jack and come visit us. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here.

I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here. share a very special moment and in hopes that the person who made this moment happen

listens to this podcast and shares my message. A year ago I could not run more than a quarter mile without stopping or hating every second of it. And last Sunday I ran my first half marathon. I ran the San Francisco half marathon. A year ago, I decided I was going to do the hard thing and I was going to become a runner and that's what I did. The race was the hardest thing I've ever done or one of the hardest. In dresses I was thinking, I specifically,

and until you could not do this, also as I was approaching the last of the San Francisco Hills in the race, I saw a lady holding signs that read, you can do her things and the word hard was painted in sheet of paper. And I swear I had to hold myself together from crying because it was such a special moment. I felt like that sign in that lady were placed at the bottom of that hill for a reason. And those words and everything I've learned with your book and this podcast,

pushing me to finish the race and I finished and I felt very proud of myself. And I just want to share this with you guys. Thank you for the community you've built. Hopefully to motivate someone to do that harvesting, but they think they can't do, you can do it. But also in hopes that that lady who is holding the sign, hears this and hears this and knows how important it was for me and just to think her. This is the kind of shit that makes me cry. I mean, Rudy is awesome. Any kind of sport I mean, Rudy, that's awesome. Any kind of sport moment. And Steph, that is proof that we need sheriffs.

We need sheriffs. And people doing the hard things, and people cheering for the people doing the hard things. I wish everybody had sheriffs. I wish teachers had people outside their classrooms with signs and like ER nurses and like oh my god okay Shalene is there anything you want to say to that to that pad sweater? You never realize at times the effect you're gonna have on people so always put your best self out there and just

Keep doing great things because you never know and like hearing stuff like that just It reinforces what you guys are doing. So, all right. So that's our next right thing. We just got from Shaline, put our best self out there each moment. That's our next right thing. And if we can't run, make a sign. Well, here's the thing.

Your runners, or you're either a runner or you're a cheer either way both are needed. That's right. Shalane, thank you for coming and being a part of this podcast. This is our pride and joy and you, you'll never understand how much that moment meant. We keep laughing about it because I'm like, how did I looked up and there you were and then you were putting this metal over my, and then you know what they tried to do. They tried to give me a different metal and I was like, you wouldn't let them. No, no, this is the metal, this is my metal.

And that's the one I picked out for you. I was like, I need a good one for that. And to Coach Lou, thank you, Coach Lou. We love you so much for all of the teachers and coaches out there. Please never, ever doubt the impact you have on children and families. Coach Liu has changed our family's life and continues to, from Florida, when we're not even in her classes anymore. So thank you to all the teachers and coaches.

Thank you, Shalaine. Pots, we love you. Thank you. And life gets hard. Don't forget we can do hard things. Yes. See you next week. See you in the next marathon.

We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Kaden's 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine.