We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - The Episode That Wasn’t

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

In this behind-the-scenes episode, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda react immediately after dramatically ending an interview because the guest was disrespectful to a member of their team. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things, Potsquad. This might be the weirdest episode that we've ever recorded because, we'll see. We are sitting here staring at each other with three of us right now because we just had a very strange thing happen.

We're going to call this the episode that wasn't. Yes. What happened is that we had a guest coming on today and we were very excited about this episode and we prepared the living hell out of it and we've been talking about it nonstop. And then when the guest came on, the guest was deeply unkind. Well, not to us, to our team. The way that this works. What happens is, yeah, let's go backstage for a moment.

Right. Yeah. The way it works is we have a couple of members of our team who go over and meet with the guest and make sure if they're having any questions about the tech and how are their earphones and and then they're over there getting the guest ready with tech checks making sure everything checks out. And then another member of our team is with us on a different zoom, making sure our tech checks are ready so that when the guest is ready, we join together that zoom and begin recording that episode. So we were over on our tech check. So we were over on our tech check and I Amanda started getting texts from the guest Zoom

in which it was relayed that the person who was helping this guest prepare who was this person's husband, was getting aggressive with our team team member. And aggressive meaning raised his voice at the team member. And so this was related to us on our other Zoom. And we all just decided immediately, well, this interview is not happening. Of course. You will never have someone in our orbit or on our podcast who mistreats a member of our team in any way. And so Sister got on the other Zoom and said to this person, with his sister says, tell us what you said, Sissy. I said, hello. We were, we love your work,

have been thrilled about this episode, have delved into your work for weeks, and we're really looking forward to being with you. And also this recording is not happening today. Or ever. Right. It is not happening. And I wanted to come and let you know that it's not happening because of the way that

you and your husband treated our team member. And then tell us what that person said, which everyone listening will be very familiar with this gaslighting horseshit. Go ahead. Said, oh oh is this about um insert team members name getting their feelings hurt I have done and then proceeded to insert famous man podcast here I have done so-and-so's podcast and this was not a problem and tell them what you said to that, Sissy. I said, well, I am not surprised that you treated so-and-so famous man's team

different than you treated our team, remember who happens to be a woman. And that is not how this team works. And we will not be recording this podcast. The end. And you also said, this is not about our teammates feelings. This is about what you did. What you and your husband said and done, which was super important.

So anyway, you all, we are sitting here. This is real time, this happened like five minutes ago. Yeah. And sister's idea was like, let's just get on and talk about it right now, because actually what we're doing is putting into action all the crap we always talk about. Which is like, I guess this is a hardcore boundary for us.

Like, we actually don't have to promote talk to, let into our orbit, people who mistreat our people. Any single person in our orbit or our team, that is an extension of who we are. It's a privilege, right? Because we have the power to be like, we're not working with you. And we get to choose who we're working with. And there's a lot of people in, this is true, who are working in a lot of

different sectors, a lot of the time who don't get to choose who they work with. Right. But I think there's individual micro parts of this that are important. For example, our team member who was reporting this, that is a very courageous position she was in. Because she related, and of course, immediately, when I was asking questions over text before I decided to bring it to you, Glenn and Ann Abbey, I was asking questions over text before I decided to bring it to you, Glennan and Abby, I was asking questions like, well, tell me what happened. And of course, the immediate reaction is,

maybe I'm overreacting. Yes. Maybe it's, you know, you start to question yourself. I wouldn't say yelled. Maybe they didn't yell. I'm just aggressive. And no one's ever done that to me on a tech check, and I've never felt that way. And so, I immediately recognized a thousand times that I've done that. When I report how I feel, and then someone takes it seriously, and then I start to spiral into being like, oh wait, you're taking the seriously. You know, I need to interrogate the shit out of myself. Can I trust myself? To make sure that that, yes, can I trust myself with that?

And if you're going to listen to me, now I have to, whoa, really drill down to be like, was that what I think it is? Was it, was it reasonable that it made me feel that way? All of that stuff. And I think her reaction was really profound. And let's talk about that because that, what happened in real time was that I got fired up and wanted to be the one to go to act to this person. And I believe that my suggestion was that I say,

fuck you, fuck your husband. And then you said, perhaps not, let's take that spirit. Well, it's just excited. You were looking to avenge a thousand sons. Yes. And I was looking to avenge every woman who was ever been mistreated by an aggressive man who did not respect her in a place and thought he could come in and mistreat her. I was making it universal. They say if it's hysterical, it's hysterical. I was getting a little bit hysterical. And I mean that in the most respectful way, not the misogynistic way people use the word hysterical. So what was very wise in that moment and then we can all learn from. I love just how you said all the things so succinctly and strongly and to this person's face, but did it without any

sort of snark. It didn't seem snark, no snark and no fear. Yeah. Because really when you get worked up, that's a level of fear. I'm scared. I'm scared. No excuses or explanations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You said we don't need to explain it. Just need to say this is how it is.

Goodbye. Yeah. I admire that so much in you, sister, for being able to feel probably a little bit off-kilter in certain ways. This is not a normal thing that happens on a daily basis and to be able to go there and to show up with such grace and poise and also the kind of leadership that that takes to be able to protect somebody on our team

who is listening to the words that are coming out of your mouth, seeing and feeling, you know, I'm imagining being this person and seeing somebody stick up for what I said, my team believed me and then they said the things that needed to be said to protect me. And they're taking a loss, we're not doing this episode. They spent weeks preparing for this. These are the kind of things that I think are so indicative of why you're such an incredible leader.

And I will be with you forever. Remember you used to say the soccer team used to say when the referees are the people in the black socks, when the referees, the bosses who are judging everything all the time. Everybody knows the referees. Okay. Anyway, when they do something that's messed up or a bad call or whatever, or the other team starts getting chippy with you, and then you would say to each other, ice in the vents. Ice.

Ice in the vents. Sister can do ice in the van. Yeah, she's champ. That's insane. Not usually. I think it was also like a woman to woman thing. Yeah. I really admire this person's work. I think it was also like a woman to woman thing. Yeah. I really admire this person's work. I really wanted to do this episode. And I think the key is we get really

caught up in deciding whether someone else's standards are reasonable instead of embodying our confidence in our own standards. Yes. Right. I'm not going to get into a debate with you about whether your behavior was X or Y. I'm saying that the way we work is we don't deal in X or Y, I'm saying that the way we work is, we don't deal in X and Y. You know, so it's not kind of like going and saying, I'm gonna prove to you how shitty you behaved.

It's saying, this is really sad and disappointing because I love your work. And also, I am not able to work with you because this is our line. Our line is that if any member of our team is treated aggressively and feels like their nervous system is activated by yelling or screaming or aggressiveness. We can't work. No, it's not a court case. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar.

I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things. But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I wanna talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food.

I was like, girl, we're not doing that anymore. You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself.

Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. I would love to know how many women in the world right now today have had their nervous systems activated because they've been mistreated and they have learned how to condition pushing those feelings away, going for a walk to take care of some sort of activation, swallowing it, going home and just complaining and venting, it's like, it has to end. And I think that that's why we wanted to record this

because this is a very specific moment that happens all the fucking time. All the fucking time to women and marginalized people all over the world. And I just think that it's fascinating to kind of get into the crux and the detail of it because it happens in offices, it happens at grocery stores and how we can unlearn or decondition ourselves to just keep taking it and taking it day after day after day. This is my favorite podcast day.

We didn't do the podcast. Yeah. Because what's more important to me is this team. We're doing it. We're not just talking about it, we're doing it. And I love this team. I love this group of women who make this offering. And today we had this opportunity

to really take care of ourselves and each other on this team. And it feels really good to not use the world standards of what's acceptable for women, but to use our standards. And not have to explain them because it's ours. Because this is ours. So like we get to decide. And that is a privilege. And when you do have that privilege, you have to fucking use it. Yes. Because you use that privilege to put people on notice that this will not be forever how you get to treat people. As more women start owning the places and things and get to make their own freaking conditions. For entry. That's how the rules change is when people start enforcing different rules. When she and I got back on the Zoom with us. With us.

Yeah. After we left the guest, it was emotional. Yes. And she explained how it was like that feeling that she had when the man was speaking to her that way is something she had never experienced professionally but had experienced and personally in relationships of the past. And it's like everybody knows that feeling. Yes. Whether it's belittling, it's just the flavor. It's like that

spice that gets added to something and it just tastes that way. Yes. No matter how many other spices are in there. Even if they're saying words that are not that thing, it brings you right back to the moments to be on a work call and trying to help these people and then have this experience where you feel like, wait, what's happening right now? And then having to go through all of the questions. Am I crazy?

Am I reading this wrong? What's going on with me? And I don't know. I just think that it's so important for women everywhere to remember, and if their nervous system is activated, something is wrong. It's not you. It's them. I wonder, Cord, this just because I not to be self aggrandizing. No, we did anything heroic here. We literally have nothing to lose. This is just, no, this is not how we roll. We roll a different way. So we may not roll together today.

Yes. But I think it's just because precisely because it happens a billionteen times a day, that maybe somebody comes in to a meeting and treats the valet guy like shit, maybe treats the executive assistant like shit, maybe treats the waiter serving the lunch like shit, all during the process of being in the meeting with the CEO and treating them like a prince. Amen. Our princess. That reveals more about that person. Yes.

Then it does about any kind of hierarchal order when you have the privilege to be in a position to be like, oh, the thing is we, we gain some data about you based on like you were treating us like shit when you were treating her like. Exactly. There is no distinction. That is so interesting. Yeah, yeah. Like I wonder how they made it to our Zoom, would they have been a different person?

Of course they would have. Of course they would have. And that to me is all character, right? Like how you treat people in the service industry. And if you're treating those people differently than you're treating a CEO or somebody in power, and there's something fucked up about your character that you prioritize and think this power dynamic

should relate to how you relate to people. And it's also just interesting because this person, it was the husband, it was also this person. But the aggressiveness, loudness part came from the husband and then was excused by the person and made excuses for. And that we all know is such a dynamic and such a sad, sad dynamic. And there's a lot of sad nuance there in terms of women who are in positions where they have to constantly excuse, cover up, minimize, emotionally abusive communication. But the point is that that we weren't gonna do that. Yeah, I mean, we weren't gonna become complicit with that.

The detail, this little detail that happened, when she said, oh, her feelings were hurt. And it's like, no. No, you were being assholes. This is not because her feelings are hurt. This is not what you did. You did this thing. And so it's this weird, I don't know what that.

That one got me, because that is the move. That's right. The move is, oh, so I happened to be in a conversation with a super fragile person. Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that I was dealing with someone who was super sensitive. So that's the problem here is that you have someone on your team that's super sensitive. As opposed to that could have not even phased that person in the least and they could have cared not at all and had they reported the exact same information,

it would still be the exact same hard now. Yeah. But that's the dig. Right. She got her feelings hurt, not I behaved in a way that should be unacceptable. Yeah, and another way of saying, oh, she got her feelings hurt.

I didn't realize she was so sensitive. It was like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize she was so sensitive is like, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was dealing with someone who has self respect. Oh, I didn't realize I was dealing with someone who has ideas about how they should be treated or like who has boundaries or like self, I did. No, I think it's more than that. We live in a world where, and this is gonna be very

binary and ridiculous and stereotyping, but we live in a world where historically and objectively, we have excused men's poor behavior on a chronic and systemic level. That's right. So when you get on, and there's two women trying to work at a problem and here comes the husband and he gets aggressive and loud. The deal is we will all agree that that's just you know that's what men do they lose it a little bit and they act little aggressive but we're all gonna agree in a few minutes to be like that was

awkward and that'll be the end of that you know about when you're in a few minutes to be like, that was awkward. And that'll be the end of that. You know, about when you're in a position where you are able to operate in a way that it doesn't excuse that and does not proactively make excuses for poor behavior. And you have that privilege, you should go ahead and not make those excuses and not conspire with folks to agree to make excuses, either silently or explicitly. Yeah. Yeah, it's the. That.

Oh, her feelings were hurt. That's the trigger for me. And also the, well, I did a famous man's podcast and they seem fine with the trigger for me. And also the, well, I've been a famous man's podcast and they seem fine with the way I behave. And it's like, that was an interesting thing to say to you. That was very interesting. That was a really interesting thing to say. And she said that a thousand times

during the Tech Check II. And that's another way of saying, your standards are screwed. You're just difficult women. You're just difficult women. Yes. You have just difficult women. You're just difficult women. Yeah. You have jacked up standards. You let me inform you of where your standards should be. Yeah. And it should be on this level of this, this famous dude without considering the fact that there's no way in hell

that your husband talked to that famous dude like he's talking to us. That's not what those kind of men do. And also, I think there's a thousand dynamics where this shows up in pernicious ways, you know, the way that someone will report a sexual assault and other people be like, but that guy's so nice to me. I worked with them and they were so great. I just feel like what we can all aspire to. And maybe it's not in our workplaces, because a few people have the privilege we have of being able to be like, yes, we want to work with that person. No, we don't want to work with that person.

But I think even if you just have two solid friends where you can just say the word, you can look at them and be like, mm-hmm, that person's not it. And the other people are like, I believe you, that person is dead to me. Yes, I believe you. And that's finished.

It goes back to the doctor Becky thing. I believe you, that's what this was this morning. That's why it felt so good. It was one sentence, I believe you. Yes, we're out. Yeah, no follow up required, like done. It's having just even a single person have your back. Even in, with partnerships, it's

saying like that person makes me uncomfortable. That person makes me feel icky and having someone be like, good enough for me. Done. Done. I think it's even powerful having one person in your life who can say, say less about that, it's finished. Yes. Yes. We don't ever have to be in that person's presence. You do not need to justify. I do not need the receipts of every interaction.

I'm not going to say, but are you sure you're not overreacting? We all just need one person who we can just say, it's the Maya Angelou, no one will remember what you did. They will remember what you did. They will remember how you made them feel. We need the flip side of that is that I don't necessarily need to report to you. Everything that person did, I can report to you how that person made me feel and that should be good enough. I'm scared of overreacting. Overreacting.

It's because we have been conditioned for so long to not react. We're not allowed to react. To not react. We're not allowed to react. Yeah. To not react at all. Yeah. So when we react, we think it's an overreaction because we have been trained not to react. We have been underreacting for so freaking long that it is, it's going to take us a little while to get used to just reacting and allowing ourselves to and not calling that an overreaction. And I was at recently at a table with a very famous person and a couple other people at the table were reporting a person's behavior.

And what happened was, sister, what you just said is that the famous person was like, I don't, I just don't, that person is so nice to me. And I actually said, of course that person's so nice to you. When you're a person that is in power, you cannot judge people by how they treat you. Ever, you always have to assess people by how they treat the people around them with equal or less power. That's who people really are,

because power and privilege completely change how people treat you. And it's like this weird, I'm gonna say I had like this thought and it might not make any sense, but I'm just gonna say it. So for all of time, men are leading the world, they're in power. They are leading the workforce in terms of having all of the leadership positions. And so the standard of operations, like the way that the world gets run, has this male

standard of whether it's aggressiveness or just way of being. And so for a long time, women getting in the workforce had to increase their broader and their standard of ways of being in order to survive and stay and be in the workforce. Well, now there are more women, right, coming into the workforce, finding themselves in these positions where they are experiencing a lot of this behavior. And what has always been required is for women to raise their standard. And what I think this specific circumstance we can call to is, where are the fucking

men changing their standard? This is the thing that I always say is, why isn't anything being asked of the men? The men never have to do fucking anything to change their behaviors. And this is what this is calling for them to do is look around and understand that you can't just operate the way that you want to operate all the time. And it's also like we're not going to be like that. We're not going to do it that way. Yeah. You're going to have to do it our way.

That's an old form of leadership. Right. It's all about acclimating. And I do know because it's data driven that we operate in a world that accommodates and excuses men. I mean, just it's not that's not my opinion, it's true. Yeah. But I don't think this is men versus women thing.

I think this is a way of being in corporate settings, in business, in personal relationships, that has historically been male driven male belt. If you just look like a corporate culture, right? We got cutthroat. We got, you're not succeeding here because you don't have a thick enough skin. When I was at the law for one of my five criteria for evaluation every year was my forcefulness, not like correct,

enforceable delivery, not like you were even saying the correct thing. It's just delivering everything with force. That's so fascinating. Literally, it doesn't matter what you're saying as long as you pretend you are. If fired up about it and you know what you're doing, your facade, your delivery, your essence is forceful, okay, which by the way, the whole connotation

is forceful as a whole situation. But that is corporate culture. So if you don't have thick enough skin, you can't be successful there. So there's acclimating. There's acclimating. There's pushing down who you are, what you need, what offends you. So you're constantly questioning yourself. So it's that internal like, is this wrong because it's wrong or is it wrong because I have failed to acclimate appropriately to the standard? And so that is what was happening there.

Yeah. And by any measure, what happened in that situation this morning was standard and in a certain culture and standard. In families. Yeah. And family. And so that's what I think that you, when you're in a position to not have to acclimate. And that's why we need women centered leadership. We need a new way, whether it's a man leading it or a woman leading it to say, we are actually making up our own rules. We are making up our own way of being our own culture.

And we are not assessing the viability and the success of those measures based on any other currently existing standard. And so when we say that we can't have that, we're with you. We understand that that behavior is excusable in nine out of 10 situations. We're just saying this one isn't one. So although we're looking forward to this, not gonna happen today.

Oops, that was inappropriate. Exactly, that's the June of June of. Oops, you must have made that. This is like 90% of the world, but that's now what Yeah, exactly. That's the June of June of oopsie. You must think that this is like 90% of the world, but that's now what we do here. So we'll see. Oopsie. Sajnist. I think it's really important what you just said about not men and women completely. I will say that I have mostly in my life experience the situation from men. But I have also experienced it from women. Yes.

And I have experienced great gentleness in this way we're talking about a respect from men too. So this idea of this way of leadership and way of being that's based on respect and good communication, grown up communication and self-control and emotional intelligence. That is something that I have found in both men and women. Yeah. Well, and I think that the husband in this situation was the quote unquote aggressor, but I think that the wife, our guest, she had a passive aggressiveness that was equally

as destructive. She didn't say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. She didn't come to the defense of, she just shamed the person. Yeah, and then she tried to excuse the behavior of her husband, which is as aggressive. It's actually even more aggressive. And that's more hurtful. It is. You know, so I think that like, yeah, you're right. I think that there are women that

connect in these ways and sometimes it it feels passive-aggressive, but in fact, it's actually more aggressive. And I have, just to be clearly in my partnership, my husband is much more, the reasonable, let's think of through, let's calm down. He is much more on the culturally sensitive side. A sensitive is mean like this doesn't, this situation doesn't require us at a 10.

This is a very five level situation. Why do you always have to go to nine? I don't even think it's sensitive sister. I think it's non-confrontational. I think that me and him are a little bit more on the non-confrontational side of things. But even in this standard, the reverse has happened to me. The exact same thing that we did today,

I think it's fair to say like, this isn't a self-congratulatory moment. This is just an example of a moment and I have been on the opposite end of this moment. I remember when everything was going to shit in the pandemic, G, right when on TAMED came out and we were just, it didn't sleep for like a month and your book was not in people's bookstores

and the shipping wouldn't work and no one was fighting as hard as I was to get things back on track and I was desperate and I was doing the thing like a drowning person pulling people down with me and I was behaving poorly in that way that you're just thrashing around trying to get people to help you and trying to get attention and slowly ratcheting up your aggressiveness in trying to get people to pay attention to you. And I treated our incredible beautiful editor Whitney

Frick who we've been with for ages in a shitty way. Because I was like, you're not doing what I need you to do. You're not fighting hard enough. You're not mad enough about these things. I need your help. And she wrote me an email after the slow boil. And it finally got to this like rolling boiling point. And she was like, Hey, I'm not gonna let you treat me like that anymore. This type of communication is not acceptable anymore from you. I'm with you on your goals,

but you can't use this way with me anymore. How did you respond? Like, how was that for you when you read that? What was going on in your body? I was like, oh, bust it. After my first 24 hours of breathing and being like, but I'm right about all the underlying thing. Just want what's best.

And I was like, you're exactly right. And to be honest, it was like a relief. It was like a mad woman running around with like weapons in her hand and being like, I'm crazy. Someone take these weapons away from me. My weapons are email, the phone. I should not be allowed. Yes. I am a desperate woman. Yeah. I am cannot be held to account. And so that was her way of being like, there's a line. Yeah. And you can't cross this line anymore. And that was me as a woman behaving that way. And so I don't think it's a male or female thing. I think it's a just whether whether we can get to a place where we can embody our own standard.

Yes. And say, like, here's my line. And whether that line makes sense to you or not is not my concern. My concern is having my line, knowing what it is and holding it. And if you can't behave with me within my line, then we can't work together. We can't play together. We can't be together. But like that is not my problem.

And our line is different for everybody based on every experience we've ever had. So we can stop trying to make, to spend our entire lives wondering if our line is sane enough or okay enough or re-svalid enough or actually our lines are all different based on every experience we've ever had growing up. And your line is your line. You don't have to explain or validate it. Actually, sometimes you have to explain it,

but you don't have validated. One thing that I have learned from this strange day is that I feel like there is work, a lot of work for me to do in terms of when this kind of thing happens again and again, because I observed in my reaction kind of the way that I deal with the kids when something crosses their boundaries or I deal with you when someone crosses one of your boundaries, Abby. Or like, I just, you activate. I activate. I lose it. She becomes a power ranger. Like a fighting little power ranger. Like a Tasmanian devil, and that is unhelpful. That is not leadership.

It reminds me of our episode with Tarana Burke, where she said she couldn't tell the people in her life when anyone was mistreating her because she couldn't trust that they could handle their business because she couldn't trust that they wouldn't freak out and do something that would then cause more harm or trauma. So to me in this moment what our team member needed was in that moment with sister's leadership, was like the calm study, oh no. The hard no of this isn't gonna happen, but also the steadiness of, and we've got this. Nobody's gonna lose their shit.

Because for my reaction is so fired up, which makes me know that it's fear-based. It's not like a woman who trusts and knows herself to handle this and can keep out who she needs to keep out. And by the way, this is what I'm working on in therapy right now. It's a calm reaction because I trust myself to handle the thing. Because it's an equal and opposite. Your level of fired up was an equal and opposite reaction to his aggressiveness. Yes. You were meeting aggressiveness with aggressiveness as opposed to being like,

oh, we don't do aggressiveness. Right. I do do aggressiveness. That's the problem. Listen, I'm working on it. I do do aggressive. It's like when Bobby said to, when Bobby said, God damn it.

And sister said, Bobby, we don't say damn it. And Bobby said, yeah, we do say damn it. That's the call. We definitely say. I would argue though, that the trio of us, I think that your ability to show the rest of us how wrong something truly is. Like we trust you so much. And we also have these other ways in which we can get it communicated. Oh, so we know I'm not going to be the communicator, but we appreciate my, my, of course we know

that. Sister and I knew it all along. I did. I'm more entertaining. So how I like, yeah, that's probably what it was. We wanted you to know that you were heard. And I said, okay, sister, you go over. And so I think that there is a need for somebody to be like, no, that is fucked up. Right. To point out the fucked upness of something.

You also need somebody who is a little bit more pragmatic and it's not going to get their engines out of 10. And then you need somebody to be able to go and communicate well, concise, like sisters. So I think that the three of us had kind of our roles that we all played in that experience. Okay, thank you, baby. Really, I do. And when you're by yourself, obviously, it's tougher. You need to when it manage, but like, yes, in that circumstance, we all were, you know, energetically using each other for our strengths. Okay. Well, I love you all so much. And I love this team. And I love that we are trying to embody what we believe. And I'll say we are doing it all the time, but we are trying to do it. And I just learned a lot today. And I believe everyone on this team.

And I just want for everyone listening to have somebody who believes. Yeah. We did hard things today. I feel like it. Okay, let's go take it out. Really hard and strong and true. True things. We did two things. It was good.

I love this. I think the Pod Squad needs to send us some of their experiences. You all, how did you like our episode that wasn't an episode? You did? You did? The episode that wasn't an episode?

The episode that wasn't. It's like a ghost episode. But we allowed this day to be awkward. It was weird. We talked about it anyway afterwards. And if we, again, live out what we believe, it's the good stuff that happens in the awkwardness. Yeah. Right. That's where like where growth happens and change happens is inside this what he'll just happen moment. We're instead of choosing inner conflict, which is we all just eat how we feel and we suck it up and we do suck it up and do this interview, we chose Outer conflict. Yeah, which is better. We chose to bring the truth of what our team member experienced and said, and to let that live in the middle of this conversation. And sometimes it's awkward and sometimes it doesn't make sense.

And we're just processing through this whole thing together. And I just need to tell you tell everybody, but I just think that when you pull out the truth of something, I believe that good things are bound to be said or understood and processed. Yeah, so Pod Squad, 747-205307, if you've made it this far in this episode,

bless you and keep you. We can do hard things. We'll see you next time. Bye. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't, don't worry about it. It's fine.

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