We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - When Should We Quit? with Abbi Jacobson

Episode Date: November 29, 2022

1. How to know when it’s time to get out or stick it out – and the quit that set Abbi on course to meet Ilana and create Broad City. 2. The life lessons of improv comedy: How to get out of your head, trust your choices, and make something together.  3. Abbi and Abby share similar but opposite stories about relationships that changed their lives (and whether to tuck or untuck shirts).  4. Why reimagining A League of Their Own was the Next Right project for Abbi – and how its label as a “queer show” frustrates her.  About Abbi:  Abbi Jacobson is a co-creator, co-showrunner, executive producer and star of the critically acclaimed show A League of Their Own. Prior to this, Abbi co-created, wrote, directed, executive produced and starred for five seasons in Broad City. She is the author of the New York Times bestseller I Might Regret This, and is currently adapting “Go Like This,” a short story by Lorrie Moore. IG: @abbijacobson To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We've stopped asking directions, some places they've never been. Okay, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We're very excited, Abby and I are really excited. Abby Jacobson is a co-creator, co-showrunner, executive producer and star of the critically acclaimed show, A League of Their Own. Yes. Prior to this, Abby co-created, wrote, directed, executive, produced,

and starred for five seasons in broad city. Yeah. She is the author of The New York Times Best Seller. I might regret this and is currently adapting, go like this, a short story by Lori Moore. Abby? Oh. Oh, man, I'm'm gonna that I can't even handle. I'm excited to be here. I mean, seriously, we have been obsessing over you. I have just deep dove in on Adi Jakes. I

deep dove. No, I am dove in right on in and we'd never watched broad city. We're a little old like we just missed Yeah, we just decided he was on I was watching a lot of like wonder pets and Blues clues. Okay, but we have this one very cool member of our team only one cool person on our team Allison And show Allison Sorry, Deena. You have been her one, like we must get Abby Jacobson. So I read your entire book this week.

We've binge broad city. We can't stop. But we've already watched the League of Their Own. You are just effing delightful. Yes. You are delightful human being. I don't know what to say. That means the world from you two.

I'm an avid listener. No. Are you kidding? I was listening. Yeah, I love this is my favorite podcast. I listen to it all the time. Jody and I listen to it all the time separately and together. Yes. Yeah. It's so good. It's truly helpful in my existence. I just feel like we're frail. Like, we probably both feel that we're all friends, just based on the work that we've done. And the work we've all consumed from each other's work.

So it's like, I actually, I just said, I was like, I feel like I'm friends with Abby. I know. We just said, listen, this is the beginning. Oh, okay, good. Yeah. That was my backdoor way of asking if you want to be real friends. IRL.

Okay. Perfect. And IRL. Same amount of syllables as in real life. From broads and. Okay. So we might be doing a lot of that. We aren't joking.

You know, that's so funny. I was like, why do I know that? Yeah. It's been a second for me. In your book, I loved it so funny. I was like, why do I know that line? It's been a second for me. In your book, I loved it so much. Both of us have a lot of things that we relate to you about, and differently. Yeah. Okay. I feel that as well. Yes. So you said that in your 20s, you had dated men, but you had never really been in love. And you said you'd gotten to this point where you felt like you just weren't cut out for love, right? That you were made of solid rock and that you'd be written about later in life as the woman who never fell in love.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really felt that way. I mean, I dated a lot of dudes and I like love dudes, but I just was like, wait, I'm not, I'm not, I don't know, maybe I'm just not able to connect in that way. At all, I guess. Yeah, this just got me. You said you had an underlying sense of loss within your body for an experience you knew was essential to being alive. God. That's, do you even remember that now? Cool, you guys are going in real deep, real quick. I'm like, whoa, um, yeah, you know, I also wrote that in a very particular time. I wrote it right after I had fallen in love and then like been heartbroken. So I was like writing about this in the aftermath. So I wonder if I had written that before.

I don't know if I'd be able to be that vulnerable about it, but yeah, I do remember feeling like what's wrong with me, something's wrong with me. It's in everything I make. I think it is also like our society keeps like putting things in our faces that show us what we're supposed to be and what society wants us to be. And I think at least when I grew up, you know, I'm 38, it was rom-coms, very heteronormative, you fall in love, you have to, like, it was very like by the book, like, this is the only way. And yeah, I just felt like, I guess I'm not like in this world, like I don't know, I'll like find my own, but I do remember writing that. And I was terrified, I mean, the title of the book, it's called I Might Regret this,

because I was very terrified of putting any of that out into the world without it being like behind Abby Abrams, it's way easier for me to like put that experience into Abby Abrams. It's way easier for me to put that experience into Abby Abrams on Broad City, which is the way that I had her sort of ask a woman out was exactly the way I did it. So all these experiences I like to put into shows.

So when I was doing the book, I was like, this isn't, this is just me putting it out there. It was very scary. Do you know who was like Abby fucking right this book is your bud Sam? Oh, no way. We were working on a project forever and she was like one of the main people

when I was writing that book that was like, write the worst stuff you feel. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Explosive. It's all, you know. Sit at your typewriter and bleed. Yes.

Yes. That's all we want is blood. If you're not going to bleed, don't sit down. We'll do you regret it? I have to ask. No. No, I don't regret it at all. I was able to tell stories or tell my experiences

in the beginning through Broad City, which is very based on me and Alana, but amplified amplified and then we were able to like sneak in vulnerabilities and personal things. And I think if you watch the whole thing, you see it like, it really starts to get heavier underneath it all. But I find now that that's sort of like all I have is sharing those things. So I don't regret doing that anymore. Or I don't even fear regretting it. Do you ever get confused about which one is you? Because for people from the podcast listening,

Abby, this is Abby, okay? But Abby wrote and played Abby on Broad City who is Abby, but more of an amplified exaggerated version of Abby. So you've got Abby, who is you real Abby, and you've got Abby, Broad City, Abby. You've got book Abby. I'm asking this as a person who sometimes gets confused

about which, like, which is art and what is real. What is art? What is real? Which one is real? Is it real? What is art, what is real? Which one is real? Is it real if I don't work it out publicly? How do you figure all that out? I think when we were ending the show,

it was Alana and I both feeling like we needed to know ourselves, know the real, I mean, Alana, that was sort of part of why. One, we wanted it to end on a high note where we thought it was really still great and not just keep going for the sake of going but also because at least I felt like I was a little bit of a workaholic definitely workaholic I didn't have a big life balance like work balance and I was very confused because I would give so much of myself to Abby Abrams

on the show even if she's amplified. But I'm sure you both feel like feel this. People who know your work and see you in real life, it's the most complementary thing to feel like. I know, like, oh my God, we're best friends. Like they know you, but then it is confusing because while I love sharing and ultimately don't we all want to be like known and seen and heard and understood. I also, I'm like, wait, I also need some like just me.

I'm not fully sharing everything with the world or else I will go crazy. It's very confusing and hard to manage a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Let's tell the people how you got to this place. You applied after high school to go to Atlantic theater conservancy, which what I understand from your book was like a fancy pants theater place. Is it fancy? It's like a real deal dramatic. David Mammoth and William H. Macy's school. So it's like very heady, very theater. Like, I'm feeling improving. I'm proving why I shouldn't have been there.

I'm like, it's theater. Theater, theater, theater. Theater, theater, theater, theater. Theater, okay. Serious. What I love is that this is your dream to go there, you go there and then you start to realize I don't know if I feel good here. You were just like terribly uncomfortable.

It felt very, is pretentious the right word or highbrow acting, which is what I thought I went to art school. So I studied visual art, so drawing and painting, and then I minored and video. I went to a school called Micah Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore, and I was in while I was doing video art. I sort of realized I really do want to be an actor. I always wanted to be an actor, but that's who becomes an actor. I was like, that's not a thing like I would ever do or tell anyone at home that I grew up with. That's just like not a reality that happens. Anyway, but then at school I was like, let me just apply.

This is what I've always wanted to do. And I really wanted to go into like drama. That's what I was like, let me just apply. This is what I've always wanted to do. And I really wanted to go into drama. You laugh at that. I would love to do something more dramatic, whatever. But she's still kids. She's still kids.

She isn't actor and she's good to say, she wants to be an actor. I would say writer for I. So someone says, what do I do? I say I have a writer first because most of the things I've acted in, I've written, say I'm a writer first because most of the things I've acted in, I've written, but I got in. I went up, I prepared an audition, I went up to New York, I got in and so I was like, holy shit, like I'm gonna, here we go, yeah, here we go, this is like the real deal.

And then the first week was one of the worst weeks of my life. Oh no. Like, you sign up and you're so excited for this thing. And it's just not how my brain operates. It was analyzing scene studies in a way that probably works for a lot of actors. And if you would see what I do now, it like totally makes sense that I would not go there.

I like being very improvisational and open and like figuring it out and not high brow. I don't think of myself as, not low brow, but like medium brow. Not low brow. Medium brow. I was miserable and I was like,

well, I guess I can't be an actor. I'm failing at this. I had a breakdown in the street, which I thought also now looking back is sort of like a right of passage living in New York. I think that that everybody does that. But yeah, I quit. I had to quit sort of pretty soon in order to get my deposit back. And then I felt like a failure. I'd moved to New York. No one in my family had ever left Philadelphia. My brother worked with my dad.

I was like going to do this thing and I couldn't do it. And then I discovered the upright citizens brigade, which that world is totally how my brain works, comedy and improv, and then I sort of just kept going. It's like you queered theater. This is a pattern for you, thank God. Because a lot of times we go into the thing, the norm, and then we hate it and don't feel comfortable there. So we think there's something wrong with us.

But we just stay and try to be better and better and slowly die inside. This is what winning is so fucking important. Yep. Because I was reading that part of the book when you were in that theater thing and thinking, oh, when you follow your own self, you end up with broad city. Exactly. Because I met Alana in like an improv practice group, which I really don't want to go into

the specifics of improv. Whenever I go into it, I like people are falling asleep. This is so, but can you do it a little bit? Can you do it a little bit? It's just specific, like, it's almost like a cult. Uh huh. It's just this world that a lot of people that find it,

I met Darcy doing improv and a lot of anime in this practice group. It's basically this space. It was a theater, a black box theater that was under a supermarket called Grace Citi's. It was in the basement of a supermarket and it was like the most special place I had found in New York City where every night after I worked at Anthropology just like Abby did on Brought City and at the Rockefeller Center one. And I can't fully believe they let me shoot there after all those years.

But anyway, it's like so. Are you walking in there as a palpable energy? People are going on stage with nothing, getting a suggestion from the audience, and together, however many people are on stage, whether it's three or eight, they're making something. That to me is fully the opposite of Atlantic, which was like analyzing a sentence for an outward, versus what could happen, the possibility is trying and failing. Like people, you would bomb so hard and then someone would like save you.

It just was this like teamwork very, it actually, it is, it was so not a queer, there were like not that many queer people, but it felt so clear. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. You know what I mean? Like, queer sexually, I mean queer. No, no, but like it is like the queer world of acting. It's not outcast because, but a little. Like it is the weirdos.

I just want to say because I'm kind of a leader in what I used to do. And quitting, like the definition of quitting for me, it's like pivoting. Like you went to this place, you're like, oh, nope, like you had a full body know and it gave you the chance to pivot and experience something different with upright citizen per gain. And I think that to me,

like that is the really important lesson here that a lot of us find ourselves doing things that we're like, this is just like a full body, no. That doesn't mean necessarily you're a failure. It just means that that shit's not for you. And it's opening up this other door over here. So like, don't forget to pivot. That's what you did.

I love that because it not, I've never thought about it that way. I've always felt like I quit this thing. No. That was so hard, but it was just a pivot. Yes. I feel like if most people look back on those quitting moments, it really just pivoted them into the next, the right thing, or like closer to the right thing. Totally. And sister's not here to be the nerd. Sister's not here to be the nerd. I know I'm very sad to tell sister that I'm such a fan and tie in a moment. Oh, she would

want me to remind us all. What origin of the word quit is quietists, which originally meant to set ourselves free. Yes. Okay. It only got the negative connotation during the industrial revolution when they wanted us all to become robots. So it used to be a very powerful freeing like bad asses quit because no, that's not for me. And having a full body no experiences is sometimes more important than full body yeses because it's like knowing what you don't want is information. It has nothing to do with failure. I can totally relate to leaving your family,

you're taking this big risk, you're going outside of the family norm. And so what are they all gonna think when I say I'm quitting this place? Well, and relationally, some people could be in a heterosexual marriage for 14 years. Who's that? I'm just feeling like I should just be trying harder.

This is just, it's something wrong with me. It is so interesting to recognize those moments where in your full body you feel a thing. Yeah. But I mean, to not act on that is wild, right? It's so wild. I'm Jonathan M. Hevar. I'm a podcast producer and someone who likes fancy things.

But I grew up working class. My parents were immigrants with factory jobs. And because of that, I think about class a lot. And I want to talk about it. That's what we're doing on my new podcast, Classy. And what did you all eat? You know, trailer food. I was like, girl, why not doing that anymore?

You'll hear from people who told me awkward, embarrassing, and strangely intimate things about what class means to them. She said, you know, for the house cleaner, I hide the tag on the $6 bread. And I just thought, don't you think she knows that you're wealthy? You're hiding the tags from yourself. Classy. A new podcast from Pineapple Street Studios. Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. I think it must be really interesting for you too as an actor to really love this like improv thing. I want you to tell me more about what it is like in your body on that stage because that's what we're all doing this weird improv thing of life.

All the time. So, you said it's a Bible of values. Yes. I haven't done it in a while and I was just talking to Darcy about wanting to do it. Darcy Carden, who I'm talking about, wanting to do it again because she's so good. And there's still a little bit of like a hesitancy because I was never like, quote unquote, successful at improv, like in that theater. And that's why a lot and I made broads in me. But I think I am successful at improv in my work, which like bringing

the values and like that kind of experimentation into broad city and then into league. It's the most terrifying thing. I would equate it maybe with where you're meeting someone new where you have this, where you have to remind yourself that not being nervous is good. Being nervous is actually being excited. Being nervous is excitement. You know what I mean? You have to like shift it where you're like, this is good, these are good feelings. Like I can do this. And so it's like a nervous mix with a will to be confident. It's a teeny microcosm, I think, for living life, which is I have to put myself out there, try,

there's gonna be always other people have to like, try and trust as much as I can and help and support. And hopefully they're gonna do that for me. And there's gonna be like super highs. And there's going to be like super bad lows. And well, like then the lights will go out and we'll like get to do it again. Hmm. What is using the top of your intelligence mean? Yeah.

This is it. Right. You said this is an improv thing. And also don't think. Yes. So the don't thinking is like the UCB method up like one of their slogans, which means you work like Abby, I would imagine it's exactly equivalent, I think, to being an athlete where like you work out and you train and you practice and you get your muscles and the team is like so used to working together so that when you go out into the field, you're not thinking.

Right. You're just like doing and you're operating and you like, no, each other and trust each other. And to get in your head, I imagine while you're playing would be the worst thing. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, don't think. It's like the commitment to like letting what should unfold, letting that actually unfold.

While also putting your own energy and spin into it, I bet that's a lot like improv. Yeah, I mean, you're still obviously making choices and decisions like on the fly, but you've worked enough and with improv, you practice that skill set to to kind of get to a point when you go on stage for a show, you're sort of like not thinking and just trusting that your choices will work or they'll fail or they'll be what they are.

There's nothing like it. That those that hour or whatever long it is you're like almost high. Not that I've ever done anything that would be okay. No, no, no. Yeah, I know. And the book, it was so funny to me because there's, you have this one part that's all about improv and the magic of it and yes and and let just don't overthink and all the things. And then right afterwards you're talking about how you used to go to a bar afterwards and then you were so self-conscious and you couldn't talk to anybody. And I'm like, I'm with the book. I'm like Abby just improv.

But that's the thing where it was like it was this thing I found that that that the goal was to be all I wanted to be in real life. I wish I could be confident and trust myself more. And be open. And I think over here, I was seeing all these people doing that. I was so in awe of it. And so I sort of did it as much as I could. And I guess I felt that high over here because I am very insecure and naturally,

I mean, yeah, I just am that. It's a good thing for someone like me to get into or to find. I can also do improv, it's the opposite of everything. Yeah, I think that just watching Broad City too, I can see the parts of the scenes where you and Alana are just going into it. Not only is it funny, but it's like, I can feel that magic when I'm watching

even on something that's been edited and produced like a television show. Not all improv when you go to watch it. We learned that on broadsittance. Is it good as it feels to do it? Yeah. Most of it is what you saw where we were making fun of it and everyone that made Broad City,

we all met doing improv, but it is also terrible. And so the improv you saw in the show is very much like not using the top of your intelligence. So when you sort of like go low, go blue quickly. What does that mean? Go blue quickly. It's like coming out and being like, someone is going to correct me. It's almost like being gross and crude and perverted.

Oh, crude, yes. Yes, yes. Did you just search that? No. Like someone like text you that was like, yes, it's crudean perverted. Which like sometimes you can like get there in an intelligent way.

But sometimes it's like going for the easy, what you think will make people laugh. Because it's really about someone walking out and saying and trying something, being a character. And the yes ending is like, is acknowledging their choice and not negating it and adding to it. And so sometimes using in the top of your intelligence is you know these things.

So like, inform the scene with all the things you know and don't go. Yes. This is basically the difference between Glenens humor and my humor. I go blue. Yes. Because I'm just searching for a laugh. I don't even care how I get there. And Glennon goes and tries to use the highest of intelligence. That's good. Thanks, Fab.

Listen, I go for subsidies like half is like, so I'm not like above. I'm not above going blue, but yeah. So I we talked about this this morning and I love this so much Because the clearing of the theater gave us all of the Abby magic Yes, Brad City with League of Therron, which I can't wait to talk about in a minute When you cleared your love life, you're engaged to a woman now. We'll get to that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is so exciting Okay, she's so excited. I'm doing that. She's like There was a moment where you were dating this first person

who you were in love with long ago and you had never tucked in your shirt before. Yeah. Okay, this is the biggest deal, okay? It's a total lie in your shirt. The queering of the clothes. Okay, why did you not tuck your shirt in ever? First of all. I think I

didn't tuck in my shirt. I never really thought this was like a queer thing. This is more of inline with like my insecurity and not being confident with my body and all this. I don't mean when I say clear in all of these ways, all I mean is like being yourself. I think clear in all of these ways, all I am is like being yourself. Yes, and that's, and that, yes. And she was like, why don't, like you, you look so good, like why don't you tuck in your,

cause tucking in your shirt, you, you see more of your body. And I'm always always like, pulling it out and like, very insecure. And then I tried it and I was like, wait, I do really like the way I look and I like the way I feel. And I think it was partially about how I felt

in that moment too, like with her and all that, I'd probably talk my shirt in a couple times, but maybe not felt like that was a thing that, looked good on me or that I felt confident in. And yeah. So when you broke that, you said to her, one of the last things I was bringing this up. I just think it's so important.

I know. So, and then you, I want you to tell out of your story about shirts. One of the last things I said to her was to change my life. You taught me how to tuck in my shirt, which obviously didn't just me and you taught me how to tuck in my shirt. So what did you mean?

Did you finish league? Yeah. But I think that's one of the last, I think that's like the last thing Carson said. Yes. I can't help but bring humor into any situation. That was like a devastating moment and it meant so much more

that relationship did fully change my life and gave me the confidence. Like knowing I was queer, which took me so long, gave me such a different confidence in everything. And the shirt tuck just felt really like a part of it, even though it was like the smallest thing. It always is the smallest thing. And then I really did see myself. I really did feel so different. Let me hear this short story. Yeah, I had the opposite situation.

So in college in the late 90s, I came from an all-girls-cappet school high school, went to college and my first girlfriend in college, she just says to me, you know, why don't you try untucking your shirt? And I was like, huh, because this is like, this is like the time. This is so funny. Yeah, I don't know. That is so funny.

Because her mom, dresser like Talbets, she went to a Catholic school. She was like her queer Abbey Wong-Box self tucking her shirt in. Wow. But I think like the bigger point to the story, like truly, is this idea. And I don't need to genderize it or talk about like guys

and women in relationships versus two women. But I do think that this is one of the things about being in a relationship with somebody who can truly be honest with you because they are experiencing what you're experiencing in so many ways of this world. And so the way that my girlfriend at the time and the way that your ex was able to express this information

was able to be understood and realized and then put into action in a way that is actually life changing. It's so beautiful though, because it's like the tucking. Some people need to untuck. Some people need to tuck. Yes, everybody needs to be seen. I honestly don't feel like I was walking through the world like hiding this thing. I think I don't know. I'm truly like what was happening. I went to arts. Like I don't know what was going on. Blinders. I don't know. I'm truly like what was happening. I went to arts like I don't know what was going on. Blinders. I don't know. But it felt like she was saying you're hiding this. You're hiding your body. And you don't need to. You're not revealing this part or something. Yeah. I you're hiding and yours was hiding. The closest I've come to that moment because I still don't

know how to dress in a way that makes me feel like I have no idea. I always feel like I'm wearing a costume no matter what. I don't know how to match my insides to my outsides with clothes. But I used to come home every day and the second I'd get in the door, I'd peel off my skin type pants

and take off my shoes and my heels and take out the things for my hair and all this shit. And I'd say, I said to you one day, do you wanna go get cozy? And you said, oh, I live cozy. And I was like, what the fuck? You can only go see. Wow.

That's why I'm glad, and I'm like, you where I'm like, you were, I'm like, I got to get into my, like, I got to go change to like, go, like, watch TV. Exactly. Me too. And she's like, why would you wear something that you out in the world that you that that it would is less comfortable than the thing you would, like, why would you ever do that? Wait, I feel like I want for you to find clothes that make you feel more you. There should be someone you can go to. Abby, all I do is change from costume to costume.

Like, do you want me to take you out? Yes! There's my girl boss suit outfit. But like, what is my... What is my... What if you like went to a department's room which is like tried tried random stuff on just to see where's Ksenair you to back where you started? I think I need to do that. I mean you put on you put on three to four outfits a day because I'm just

constantly trying to figure out what is it you know I'd grew up like all this horrible like tight stuff that was just about like the way that I appear and not how I feel. Some of it's like also armor in a way. You can see the tucking really did a number on it. Okay. Duck. I that's so fascinating that yours was the complete opposite but did the same thing.

I love that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We need to talk about Ilana and Broad City because we can't do that without getting to a league of their own. And what I just freaking love the, are you in Ilana still as close as you used to be with this? Yeah, but I don't see her as much shit. I still go back in Fort Tune, New York a lot, but she's in New York and I'm more in LA now. Okay. So you two just improv, you're like,

you leave your fancy school, you go to improv, you're not like completely let in the boys club at improv, right? So you and a Lana just decide to make a freaking show? Like, how did this happen? Yeah. We were on a practice team, which was like what the community kind of does,

where you like practice one night a week with a coach doing improv, and then we would host shows at like a little teeny theater called Under Saint Marks. You'd team up with a couple other teams and you'd have a night of it. You'd give the audience shots of a terrible thing to get them to come. It was just like a fun, such a fun community of all these people trying to do this. And we were the only two girls on our team. and we were just really good friends for two years

doing that. It's just like so unique and different than anyone I'd met, or especially any of my other female friends that I had known from high school or college, the dynamic that you see on Broad City was just like always that and then amplified, but we just cracked each other up. And then two years after doing this improv team, we sort of realized, what if we made something? We cannot get on the UCB stage. We can't, we're both like trying to audition

for commercials trying to become actors, nothing. What if we make these little vignettes? And so we had a web series called Broad City for two years. So we started in 2009 and did like 35 web episodes for two years. And then at the end of it, we had gotten this manager and she was like, what if let's pitch it as a show? And we somehow threw this like crazy What if let's pitch it as a show and we somehow threw this like crazy Series of events got Amy polar to be in the finale of the web episode Which was just like wild in itself like that at alone we could have been like we're done Yes, you know like we did it

and Then once we sent it to her we say we're going to LA to pitch this as a show would you ever want to be? sent it to her. We said, we're going to LA to pitch this as a show. Would you ever want to be an executive producer on it?" And she said, yes. And she said, yes, and, yes, and let, and, let's do it. Amazing. So she, yeah, crazy. And she was, she was a big part of the upright citizen for gay. She was one of the owners. Yeah. Okay. So this is like freaking, but citizen for gay. She was one of the owners. Yeah. No way.

So this is like freaking, and Amy and Kay for Kay for Produce Broad City, right? Yeah, she saw the magic. Amy is the best. So it's so ironic like we couldn't get on stage there at the place that she owned, but she was not like their day to day. And then ended up like going totally around,

she ended up making a show that was farther away from anything we thought, where our dream was. And then we made that. So it was also like quite a learning curve taking these little vignettes, which were scenes very short into a TV version. For the parents out there who have teenagers and 20 something year old kids right now, it is a good peak into their kind of sense of humor or sense of themselves.

I'm telling you, it's made me know my kids experience a little bit better. I love that. I think we maybe are outdated. Like the kids now, I don't, I think we're different than we were. Do you know anything? Season one came out when I was 30.

Oh wow. But we were playing on 38. So we were playing, like, I was playing 25. And Alana was playing like 21. She's four years younger. It's very much us though to just discover something that like has for you was like a decade ago. That is very on brand for us.

I think it makes sense. It has a pocket. It was like a decade ago. That is very on brand for us. I think it makes sense. It has a pocket. It was not ever like massive. Well, speaking of what's been massive, we just interviewed Gina Davis. That's what you did. Yeah. Alina, their own, your version is unbelievable and incredible.

And I don't know versions the right word. I caught a reimagining. Reimagining. Because of the reimagining. I don't feel like we're not adapting. Yeah. That was like a big thing that people are like, are you gonna like re-armovie?

You know? They're so different, I think. So it's like a reimagining. Totally different. And also all the good stuff that people were probably afraid of losing is all still there. Yeah. Yeah.

League of their own as an idea as the first movie was really important to both of us for different reasons. Why was it important to you? What about that story felt important to you? So the film came out in 92. I think it was one of the first films I saw in the theater. Oh, cool. And I played a lot of sports as a kid. Soccer was my main sport, not top ball. But I did play softball. For me, it was one seeing women playing professional sports, even though they were in skirts. I just seeing that on screen and seeing the ensemble

of women, that group playing together and hanging out and being like funny, I don't think I'd seen that on screen. And I think that and like mighty ducks were my big. And but my ducks are like the one girl that's like hiding that she's a girl. You know, and I just felt very connected to it. I was pretty young, but I think I was like, that's like us,

like me and my teams. Like, that's the one movie we get in that way. And I even though that, you know, they were way older, but I just, I loved it. I did not sense as a child, like the queer undertone at all. It is a kind of an iconic Lee Queer film, but not queer at all at the same time. Yeah, what is that?

Like why? Because all the things that are queer, but not queer are the things that my whole life I've been like, huh. I love that thing, but I don't know why, why is League of Ther own so queer? I mean, you queered it now. It's like, yeah, the film to the reimagining.

Everything has been manifested. Yeah, in the reimagining. Well, because the storyline of the film is a bunch of women that are doing something that has only been allowed and allotted for men. And because of the concept that all of the players were over in war, it's like the thing you're not supposed to touch, but when you watch something like that and you are that, you're like, that's it. That's what I want to do. It opens up a different door that

never was there before. And the relationships between the women. Yeah, that's right. Wait, I'm curious what you felt. Well, first of all, I've never played a sport. I mean, I tried to play lacrosse, but it wasn't great. It was good. I love that.

That was the one you went for. Well, it was brand new in our high school. So it was like, if you didn't make any other team. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Our house, Abby just got T.P. last night. Because our kid is in a sport. So their team came in T.P. their house. And I was so excited. And Abby was like, why are you so excited? And I was like, because I wasn't relevant enough. In high school. In high school, to ever get T.P. I took pictures at the yesterday morning outside of my house, like having been T.P.

Because it felt like such a high school funnier moment. Anyway, I've never been part of a team before. You're not taking it down. Right, no, God. It's proof that I've arrived. Yeah. I took it down. I know.

So I was a kid who was very isolated, who all I did was read. I didn't have a lot of friendships or I didn't have any relationship with boys that weren't. I just was always performing. I wasn't worried about how I felt. I was worried about how I looked. I wasn't worried about, you know, my body was for, for appearing a certain way. And so watching athletes, I feel the same way when I first met Abby and started following the, the national team. I would like get emotional, like cry watching them play soccer. Because I was like, oh,

these are a bunch of women who believe in something together. This has nothing to do with men. This is their own a league of their own. I guess. Yeah. There was just something like another planet. It was like another planet to me that I had always been yearning for but had never been part of. Yeah, and I think that movie for me was just like I had been dreaming of this idea of something and it was in my head That was it and then there was this movie that put my dream into a context that made me be able to See it for the first time, you know and talking to you know It was just so lovely to be able to express that to her because at the time, this is 92, when I first watch it,

and it comes out, there is no such thing as like women's professional soccer. And so, you know, you go down the road for years, and that's when our women's Olympic team was in the Olympics for the first time they win gold, and then 99 was a few years later. So it is important for people to see shit in order to become it's not 100% necessary because there are pioneers. But to me that's what it was. It was like this thing that I could see that then I could attach my dreams to in some ways. And now you put Carson and it feels like I don't know. It's really important. It feels really important to me.

I love her. I love the journey. Again, there's so much of you. Yeah. Am I right about that? Like, how do you do this? How do you write this? Like, how did it happen?

I guess I also get nervous. How many times can do a super good of how many times I say I'm nervous. How many times can do a super cut of how many times I say I'm nervous. Same. I'm nervous. I'm nervous. I'm nervous. Yeah, I'm nervous.

I think I always felt with Carson, I didn't sign on to act in it for a long time because I wanted to make sure I, I don't know, I was always writing it with Will Graham, I wanted to make sure that I loved it and it felt, I don't know, I also was scared. This journey has been terrifying, it's people's favorite movie. It is a big, big one, two, two touch, you know. Re-imagagine. Yes, to reimagine. But I feel like with Carson, there's a lot of me in Carson and then also a lot that's not.

But I think I liked adding that personalness to it. And I also listen, I want to do roles that aren't so much like me. But if I like the show as a whole is a little bit of a Trojan horse of the some of the bigger things we are saying with it. So you're coming into it and with me running, and it's like very funny, but also it's like about real things. The one thing I think I am confident is is like my relatability. And I even feel weird saying that. Oh, no, it's a sure.

You are relatable to consider yourself relatable. I feel this way. I'm like a very approachable, relatable character to be like following this intense journey that's going to like turn our life completely upside down. As you and Will we're doing this, what was your dream for it? Yeah. How would it change things or people? I think because we made it, you know, so much of this was over COVID, which is a terrifying time that we're still in. Yeah. We are still in. Yes. Ultimately,

I want people to feel things when they're watching anything I make. So they're laughing. They're feeling connected to it. They're feeling emotional maybe when that's happening. But I think bigger picture, my goal was always sort of for people to feel seen and less alone. It's the same with broad city. It just league is a little bit more stories to be seen and heard and felt connected to. And to feel less alone and to feel like, oh, I feel like, oh, that's me and my friends. That's me. And if I don't have that team yet or off, I don't have that best friend yet.

And if I don't have that team yet or if I don't have that best friend yet, they're out there. Like, there are those people. I don't know. And for now, I can watch the show and feel it, you know? It's a double thing with League. Like, in broad city, it feels like, well, everybody, it felt, it feels very like the human condition is seen. Like, I feel like the human condition is being seen and celebrated and we can all just laugh.

And League feels like there is that, but it's also really important to like the race, the whole, I feel that the real story is also being seen. The full story. The full story. The full story is being honored. The full stories are being honored, which doesn't happen. We got a chance to talk to Penny Marshall before she passed away, which is incredible. And just to go into that a little bit more

is that there's a scene in the film where there's a foul ball and a black woman picks it up and chucks it back to Gina Davis. And there's no dialogue. If you blink, you miss this scene. And the audience is supposed to feel like, wow, she's incredible, she's got a great arm. Why, like, she's clearly not allowed to be on the team

because of, because she's black and it's 1943. We are getting all of that information from this one little moment and then nothing. And so like that league, the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was this incredible opportunity, this door that opened for white women and white passing women, which is like my character, that door opens. And we're seeing half of our reimagining is showing that.

And we're also exploring the white passing women and what it was like for Latino women, SD and Lupe, those characters are doing like this whole other experience of what it's like to be sort of burying who they are to be able to play on this on this team. And so the film only really explores what it's this incredible league for like some women. But what about the rest of the athletes that were incredible. Hundreds and thousands of women of color played baseball. And so we really took in the pilot that we're nodding to that scene. So Max, who's played by Shantay Adams, that throw happens and the show is half my world and half Max's world. And what happens when that door closes for women of color, who were

incredible athletes. And her character is inspired by three women who played in the Negro leagues, Connie Morgan, Tony Stone, and Mamie Pina Johnson. I knew about Tony Stone before we started, but this show had like a heavy research element. There's like a researcher on full time, which believe it or not, Broad City, we did not have that. I don't shot. And so yeah, you shot, yeah. I didn't know about the,

but about Connie and Mimi and or Billy Harris, who is like the Jackie Robinson of Softball and all these leagues. And it's like, Jackie Robinson of softball and all these leagues and it's like right of course Mm-hmm, but we know the one movie of with the white women playing and So it was so important for us to show as many experiences as we couldn't listen We're not there a lot more experiences. We're not able to showcase but for For us this was like so far, these are the stories we were so excited to share. And we felt like they really weren't in the film.

Right. In 92, there are some, the different stories that that Hollywood was showcasing. And I think we have an opportunity here to show a lot more. And that also obviously includes, like, it's such a queer show. A lot of the women on this league were queer. And that's not in the film at all. And that was really important for us to show. It's so good.

It's what, it's the power and the necessity of reimagining. That's what this is what it is. Why does League of Theron need to be reimagined? Well, it did the necessity of reimagining. That's what this is what it is. Why does League of Theron need to be reimagined? Well, it did need to be reimagined. And hopefully in 20 years, 25 years, there will be another reimagined. There will be another reimagined. So we'll come around and the consciousness will be so different that it will need to be reimagined again.

Yes. The power of evolution and consciousness raising and the art needs to reflect our raised consciousness. And that's what you did. And it's beautiful. Can I ask you guys a question? Yes. About this because I've been talking about the show for a while and I go all over the place with talking about this. But as you had said that content and seeing this and that content and seeing this is so important. Stuff can happen without these stories being like shown to us in Film and TV or whatever, but it does have a huge impact.

And I think there is queer content more than ever being put into the world. And I think it's essential to know its queer content. And I also, there's a part of me that hates so much that it's like the queer show. It makes me insane. Do you feel that way? Or do you, like, I'm just sort of like, I guess when we get to a point where it's not labeled in that way that's it

but that's the point that's 20 years. But there's a 10 or 10 right but but that's because there are people who have to live in both spaces. Yes. There are people who are forward thinking who are already driven mad by the fact that we have to label stuff queer now because they can see a true more beautiful world where that's not going to be a thing anymore. And they want to start living it now, which I also feel is super, super important. I love in shits Creek, right? Where Dan Levy, there was no homophobia. There was nothing like in the town.

And he was like, well, we did that so that we could show the way it should be and the way it will be eventually because does art imitate life does life imitate art. If life imitates art, then we need to be the ones who are showing this is how it will be. Let's encourage the world to recreate that. Right. So I don't know. I mean little things are so in broad city when Alana was like I'm going to a straight wedding this weekend. I loved that. That I looked at you as like was like, straight wedding, so good. Yes, this is a thing in scripts that I do. People often put it, if they're going to state someone's race,

a character's race, it's, if you read a lot of scripts, you notice that white is never, like the industry operates on a default, so that white is never, like the industry operates on a default, so that white is never included, but any other race, if it's specified, is included, and then you're like, wait, you're either using all of them,

or that's just like an inherently fucked up way of operating. And that's so beautiful. I know. Like, just the little ways that you can do that. Sometimes it takes somebody to say straight wedding to be like, yeah, why are we all shit? Yeah. So Abby, we love you. Thank you for this. We think we just please keep all of your vulnerability and all of your magic who you are comes through in every single thing that you do. I can't handle it. That means the world to me. Thank you. I'm so, I feel very honored to be

on here with you too. Same. What a good conversation. We love you. Keep fucking kickin' ass. Yes, and we love you, Potsquad. See you back here next time. I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle. I walked through fire, I came out the other side. I chased as I er, I made or I got once mine And I continue to believe That I'm the one for me And because I mine, I want the line

Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak So man, a final destination And I'm just off-dasking directions And some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives bring

We can do a heartache I hit rock bottom It felt like a brand new star I'm not the problem sometimes things fall apart and I continue to believe You too believe The best people are free And it took some time But I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers And heartbreaks on matter A final destination with light

We stopped asking directions So places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find a way back home And through the joy and pain That our lives spring We can do a heartache This poor adventurous and heartbreak somewhere We might get lost but we're only back Stopped asking directions

Some places they've never been And to be loved we need to be gone We'll finally find our way back home And through the joy and pain that our lives breathe We can do hard things, yeah we can do hard things. We can do hard things, is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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