We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Your Inner Child: Is Yours a Voyager, a Defensive Driver, or a Scuba Diver?

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Who is your Inner Child, and what are they (still) saying? It’s amazing how strongly our little selves show up in our adult lives.   Buckle Up – in this hilarious, profound conversation, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda invite their inner children to come forward and share their delights, blessings, and curses with the Pod Squad.  Together, we spiral around:  - Why some of us become the family “feeler” and others the “fixer,” and how we can all become more whole;  - How to honor the part of you who planned, dreamed, or disassociated to survive, without letting that little kid run your whole adult life; and  - How Abby is using music, dancing, and play as an antidote to her anxiety. 

Here's what's interesting. It's how I've kind of lived the last four or five years of my life where when there's any perception of stress, I have usually been of the right amount of faculty in my own body to be able to counteract it with joy. But I've been so stressed over the last six months that I haven't had myself to counteract any of the perception of anxiety or stress with any joy. And so I have been actively making our life worse because I'm not injecting what joy we need in the world. You're right. It's a really good mission statement. And I completely hear you.

And it is an interesting thing about how stress can just take away your personality. Yeah. For me, too, because I'm like a presence person. I'm not an anxiety person. I don't fucking believe in it. I mean, I believe your experience with it. well I don't know how I got brought into this we were just talking about anxiety in general but wait was abby saying that like the anxiety used to be all outside of you so you could bring your life force to

counteract it but now you have anxiety in you so you can't yes like there would be anxiousness in the ether out here and then I'm like I know what to do with this anxiety I'm going to do some fun joy thing and then I can counteract it so like it balances it out but then once the anxiety within me has started to rise I have been unaware and unable to do anything joy wise so this is part of my therapy right now that I am injecting joy into any moment that I can that feels anxious or stressful or too much or overwhelming that's very good I'm sorry that I couldn't step into that balance and be the joy injector that you needed that's not your role okay i'm not the joy no that's not your role that's my role but it's interesting you might also want to talk to your

therapist about you're feeling like your role is to perceive anxiety around you and fix it for your whole life until this point that's step one and and that's like varsity level probably right and i think that we're just at jv because Look, the problem is, is not Glennon's anxiety or my anxiety or the world's anxiety. It's how I am interacting with anxiety within me. So what I am understanding now is that I actually don't have anxiety in me when I am experiencing joy and play. So I am learning and working on just bringing in moments of joy and play. into my life. And then I actually don't experience anxiety. I can see it. I can see that it's

happening. But I'm like, oh, that's not happening in here. I'm going to do something joyful. I'm going to. It's like a band-aid. It's like a cure. Yes, for me. And I'm not saying this is going to be a cure for everybody. But right now, it's helping. I'm playing music all the time, and I'm dancing. We had a dance. We did dishes. Chase played an incredible song, Nina Simone. put it on and i said okay you guys we all have to do our own interpretive dance for the entirety of this song and the entirety of the dishes that yeah we did we had to dance through the dishes and when anyone would stop abby would call it out so it was important to continue the dancing for the whole dishes those were the rules do you have any ideas babe about how to

i love how you haven't even started the podcast no no no but this is the good this was It's all about a technical stress that happened because of a technical difficulty 30 seconds ago. And now we're just talking as if it's the podcast. But we should welcome the people into the conversation. Oh, hi. Oh, they know they're welcome. They know they're here. They're just here with.

They know. They know they're just part of the convo and they're with us at all ways. They don't need to be formally welcomed. Do you have any? idea yet, how to deal with the anxiety that comes when work things are related? Because I understand the idea of, okay, when I turn towards play and rest, I don't have anxiety. But what's the answer to then also doing hard things while dealing with anxiety? For me, and I can only speak for me, but for me it's putting a future expectation or a future expectation of experience

on something that has yet to exist. And that is why bringing joy into the complete present moment makes my body remember, oh, the future is not a thing. The present is the thing. And my anxiety is based on a future outcome or a future plan or a future work thing or a future idea of the way I want things to go. And that's a non-reality right now. That's right. So you're not even talking about joy and presence being separate from work. Like stopping this to surf would obviously be, but you're talking about bringing the joy that you want all the time into every work moment. Yeah, well, because it's also a choice. I understand that when anxiety comes up, there's not a lot we think we can do about it but what is preceding the moment of anxiousness

what is for me what is preceding the moment of overwhelm and it's often a thought it's something it's a thought that this isn't going the way it's supposed to go which is what you're talking about with future worry it is a moment of there's a gap between my expectation of this moment or this person or this thing that is different from the reality and the guess gap is the anxiety. That's right. So if you let, okay, so it's the theme of this entire podcast for the last five years, which we started with that quote of the thing that screws us up the most is the picture in our head of how it's supposed to be. Yes. And if you have the power, this is what I've been trying to talk to Emma about in terms of mentally preparing for games. If you have the power to create an anxiety with your head, with your, with your thoughts. And I understand that there is, some biological stuff that this is not applying to, but for me and the way that I've been experiencing anxiety and overwhelm in my life recently, I have been doing it to myself. So if I have the power to create the anxiety, then I also have the other power to not, to create something

different, which is possibility and hope and motivation and inspiration. So I'm bringing on board my national team experience where it was hard to get fired up to go to train every single day and so you had to mentally create little things that you were excited about that you were going to experience joy and and for me it was like laughing with my teammates it was like telling a funny joke it was like making fun of our coach because they've got you know something in their teeth and that was like a little funny thing that like these are the moments I just don't want to miss my life. And I don't want to miss being able to inject the joy wherever I can.

And to be clear, my life is totally different than it was last Friday since I've started doing this. Completely where I'm just like, I'm going to fucking throw joy at everything. I'm going to throw play and fun at every little bit of my life. even if it feels like hard like okay fine i can do this so i feel passionate about it you're the best and i love that you keep saying the word inject because that is how i experience it like it's like when you were little and they used to hold you down and inject vaccines and they would be like this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you and it's just going to hurt for a second like that is

how sometimes when my anxiety is high i feel the joy as a hold down injection that does in fact make me feel better but it's against my will yeah right that's how I feel every time I leave the house yeah it's like I know that I'll feel better after I do this thing but god damn it's it's not like a looking forward it's like a okay fine I'll do the thing that keeps me human even though I'd rather just stay unhumaned totally well it's a lot of effort to maintain all your anxiety like you can't be distracted from it because you are make-believe holding the whole world together it's a big ass job that no one gave you that you volunteer for and that doesn't work but it's also a lot of effort to to do the things that you need to do to enliven yourself

and which is when you're feeling like you're already so overwhelmed me like I'm on very exhausted just holding all this anxiety I can't add a different job which is to unanxiety myself. I just saw this meme, you guys, that I kept and now I want. Look at every day because makes me so happy. And it says, 90% of what you worry about doesn't come true. See, worrying works. That's how I feel. How did we turn it to mean, so don't worry. It's working, you guys. Barely anything we worry about happens. That 10% you probably forgot. You probably didn't worry about that enough. Somebody probably injected you with joy

and you dropped the ball on that 10%. That's so good. Okay, anyway. Yeah, what are we talking about today, y'all? Well, we have a precious question from one of the pod squatters that I thought it might be fun to spiral around and ask you guys about. We've had a couple conversations about this recently,

adorably, and the question is this. Abby Amanda Glennon, what were each of you like as little kids and which part of that kid still shows up every day? So I thought it would be fun to start with Amanda on this one. Great. Okay, I brought a show and tell for, to answer this question of what I was like as a kid because I thought it illustrative. So I'm going to show it. I would like to draw your attention up for those listening don't worry you're not going to miss a thing I'm going to like Abby not missing her life we're not going to let you miss a thing I'm going to tell you everything about what I'm holding okay this my are sorry our mother recently presented to me and it is when I was six or seven apparently created this contract okay so this

This Glennon was a contract that I drafted at six or seven with you. And what I'm going to read it. And what I have surmised from this is that you came to me asking to borrow $7. Okay. Okay. So at the top, it says loans. Loan, $7. Okay.

This is all written in red magic marker on yellow. lined paper. And judging by your handwriting, how old do you think you're? Well, my handwriting is still this shitty. But based on your handwriting, I think that I was like six or seven. Yeah. Which would have made you like nine or ten. Right. Okay. Okay. Loan $7 for t-shirt. Specified for t-shirt. I mean, first of all, that's a load of shit because I don't think you're a t-shirt for $7. Well, that's why you put it in quotes. It says T-shirt, in quotes. That just shows you didn't believe me.

She was getting a bag of cigarettes, but she has reported for the official document that she's getting a T-shirt. Okay, the interest, which is misspelled, is 70 cents. Okay, I'm going to charge you 10% interest on this T-shirt amount. Your client, Glennon Doyle. Okay, then there's a notation that says more each week not paid 30 cents. How did you even know about interest? are more each week not paid. Like, what the hell?

Unclear to me. Unclear. Apparently, I have required some kind of assurance in the form of collateral, which I have written down job babysitter. That's what you're going to do to get the money to repay me, okay? Date, Monday, 5th of August. We don't have a year. No.

The money, the August. Here, okay, the memo. I've written memo, $7. is the loan for a, quote, t-shirt for Glenn, which, which is spelled W-H-I-T-C-H. I've always been a bad speller, and I've always thought I was a witch. Yes. Always had that handwriting. Which pay it back by babysitting.

Each week not paid, I will raise the price 30 cents, which narrows out to five cents today. It's important to know that. it narrows out to five cents yes okay over it says then we flip it over um loaner okay i have my signature there signer this is your signature apparently i have some notes on this contract apparently i have also added myself as a co-signer to the loan which inadvertently makes me liable on the same seven dollar total plus interest which narrowed out at five cents a day is a now quite high but you owe myself a lot of money yeah you're right yeah i have added myself as a co-signer okay i didn't yet understand the nuance of the law okay memo for signatures okay i have

allowed you a memorandum section where you say doesn't have to be a t-shirt that i spend the money because it was cigarettes whatever it was for you knew good and well that you didn't want to be on the hook for signing this document for a t-shirt when you sure is shit we're not spending the money on that okay then i would like to draw your attention to you i have it notarized with a dinosaur stamp unbelievable how did you know how to do all this like there was no internet at this point well i'll tell you what i've always known how to do abby is protect myself from me but like did you like did you like look like did you ask your parents like how to How does a contract work?

No, my parents would never know that. No. I don't know, but it's absolutely hilarious and I love it and also a little sad. Which narrows out to. Which narrows out to five cents a day. Flat rate, 70% more each week, not paid 30%. I mean, I just want the Pod Squad to imagine this scenario where I just walk into my sister's room and ask her for $7. And basically her little six-year-old self is like, this bitch is not getting away with this again.

For me 15 times. And so she sits down at her little desk in her little room and drafts up a contract, which, by the way, maybe we can understand that you understand interest at six to seven. What I cannot abide by is that you understood that you had to figure out how I was going to employ my sense. to pay the money back how did you know that that's like like bank loan level yeah and like notarizing with a dinosaur stamp like what the fuck unreal well i don't um i don't know i don't remember i can only imagine that maybe you had borrowed money from me a couple times perhaps and not paid me back maybe I don't know, but I actually don't even remember that. I don't know if that was true.

Maybe I just was like, well, this is what a responsible steward of her funds was real. But I do think that it's interesting because I think that I've kind, that is kind of, it's cute and funny and clearly I was like meant to be a lawyer. but also I think it is demonstrates a little bit which is that I was thinking this morning about it I'm like what does that say about me and I think it's like if defensive driving was a personality that's what I'd be like that's so good it's not enough to drive safely and think you're going to get there safe you need to anticipate that everyone else is going to be swerving in front of you and making crazy turns and and slippery conditions and just be prepared for everything that might happen because everything is not to be trusted and we have to be prepared to not get screwed. Yes. And where do you think in your wildest imagination, who knows these questions? Who knows?

Okay. No one's pathologizing anyone here. Sure. But like where, you know, like where do you? Where does this come from? Where do you think that came from? You're just born that way? Like, were you born with a pen and a ledger?

Like, or was this a learned thing? How does one become this? I don't know. I think there was probably a lot of things that I was like, this seems a little, this seems a little much. And this seems like I have to be ready for what might happen. And it seems like I should take on the responsibility of making sure that I can make myself safe, make the world orderly.

that like if I if the world isn't like orderly and predictable and um understandable around me I will find a means to make it so and so that feels like kind of a tool of that like that's what if I was pathologizing myself I would say like the kid who's seven and is just sure she's going to get screwed and that something's going to go wrong is going to not want to live that way and be like well the law will protect me my dinosaur stamp will protect me from any any foreseeable offenses against me so um so sweet so maybe i mean there's good parts about that too that's like you can find you can live in uncertainty and be like the world is uncertain and I have no control so what am I going to do or you can be like what are the structures

around that can make it better and more predictable but I think I've maybe taken that a little extreme in my life well don't we all but it also makes me feel like I I've always thought it was weird that we only like people who go more towards um arty things or even uh adaptive behaviors like alcohol or addiction or whatever are always considered the sensitive people and then people who go towards more an analytic thing or something don't get that because I actually think of that as a compliment like if you're sensitive that means you're you're taking things in and I think it's often suggested that people who go towards a more analytical thing aren't are missing that but actually it's just an exact it's just another way of sorting the world or if you feel

you're in a boundaryless place of creating boundaries, that's just was your art to create a scaffolding to protect yourself a little bit. Yeah, they're both coping mechanisms. You're like, if I can't cope with whatever reality is, I'm either going to exit this reality, which is part of, you know, what those addictions things are. Like, I'm going to go over here. I'm going to numb out of this reality,

but it takes an equal amount of sensitivity. to be like this reality isn't working what what other like realities can I bring to make this more orderly and make more sense and I think I think that's I think that's true and I think sometimes in family systems there are like feelers and fixers and this would actually have been right around the time that like we discovered your eating disorders and I think I kind of like typecast myself very early as like Like, you're not a feeler, you're a fixer. You're like a see what you can do about the problems and address them, but you're not like a feeler of the problems.

Sister, I have a question. So as like a younger sibling, I understand, I understand like surveying the scene of the family system. And your sister maybe gets sick or becomes. the quote-unquote identified patient in your family system, do you think that you just decided to be the fixer bypassing any ability to be a feeler? Do you think it was a conscious choice? You were like, well, I'm not going to go down that road.

I'm going to just go down this road. And I guess the question is, do you know what I'm trying to ask here? Yeah, kind of. Like, does it rob you of something and do you rob it of yourself or was it forced it on you? Yeah, so it feels like there was like a wound. Or is it like chicken or egg? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, because it happens both ways.

And then the feeler's like, well, okay, I'm not a fixer. Yes. I can't do that shit. And then you abandon half your person out. You, so I think it's a beautiful question. Like, did taking on the fixerness, whether it was chosen or not force you to abandon the feeler. I think it's probably very true that. I abandoned the feel herself and that has like been a thread through the whole so many of our

conversations and even this season of the like do you have that do you not have that everybody has that where where is it you know like I think it I did um I did kind of abandoned that part early so it's like incredibly underdeveloped um but I don't know whether it's And I wouldn't necessarily say that it is, like, I want to be very careful not to say that it is Glennon getting sick that made me abandon that. I think Glennon got sick for the same reasons that I abandoned that. In other words, correct. That's good. That's really good.

wasn't a there wasn't a capacity like there was not room for two feelers right there wasn't or one right so like clearly clearly it's like read a room this isn't even going well yeah it's sure is shit not going to work to have two people like that and it's so um um So I think it's, I think it's like all part of the same bag in a way. But I don't think that I consciously did that. I think that like I became kind of a foil and then it was like, then I just kept going. Yep. Yeah.

It's a very generous reframe though because sometimes like it's present, family systems are presented as like, even if it's accidental as, well, one person's the sick person and then everybody reacts to that person, one, that kid, and creates their, but what I hear you saying is there's something in the water, and the same thing in the water that creates the sick one creates the fixer, but the origin is the water the family is swimming in. It's not a chain reaction of one becomes one, and then everybody else falls into line.

The same water that made me say, I'm out of here, I protect myself by disappearing through addiction is the same water that said I'll protect myself through legal means right and not for nothing like if if that had if your solution had been effective if in other words if your cry for help by disappearing had been effective in relocating you and being like oh here's what is needed we can do this then i would have been like oh there is there is maybe room yeah for a whole person but like i think both of those things together play it yeah you know cool babe are you is there anything else you want to say in honor of your little kid's self

before we move on to abbey or did you want to write something up about the time what each of us is taking and make sure we're allotting it correctly. I'm charging interest if you go over your time. Which even narrows out to, you owe me a shit ton of money. I'm trying, this is not important, but my brain's trying to figure out what words you meant, which averages out to. Yeah. You meant which averages out to.

Yeah. Which narrows out too. Okay. And I spelled a witch three different ways. Yes. You got to try it every way because you know you'll get it right once. you're just trying to use formal language too which is so cute and that just reminds me of my wife who yesterday did say to me that it gave me advice that if I did a certain thing it would behoove me

it would behoove me if I did this thing and if I tried it then maybe things would go more swimmingly and I just thought from which from whence are you who says this will behoove you in casual conversation and it will go swimmingly it's just amazing my Victorian wife. I would like to know what the opposite of behoof is. I would like to start using that in sentences. It will not behoove you. It will unhoove you. It will de-hoove you. It will de-hoove you. I love that. And now it's time to thank the companies who allow you to listen to We Can Do Hard Things for free. This episode is brought to you by Middy Health. There's this pattern I keep hearing from women in midlife. I thought something was wrong with me. Do you know what? We're so used to powering

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what do you want to tell us about what you were like as a little kid and what parts still show up today? Well, that's what the Pots Squadron wants to know. Well, I've been doing quite a bit of parts work with my therapist. And oftentimes, there's a lot of parts that I have in. of me that are very young um and i think that i was a very obnoxious child oh um my my high school basketball and soccer coach just got inducted to our high school um hall of fame and i because of you well because she was great and won a lot of things and i was talking to her and she was telling me about all the people that came and helped get her inducted.

And one of the stories was one of the women came up to her and said, God, that Abby Wambach, she was so annoying as a kid. Like, she was so loud. And they were joking. It wasn't. Yeah, but that's still. But I think that I was. Like, I think I was like, I was a kid who just wanted to be completely in all of the experience of life.

and so I was louder than most kids were I was more confident than most kids were and I don't say that to make you guys feel like you need to protect me you can kind of you can put your protector parts down I'm super pissed I haven't listened to anything since you said that that bitch walked up there and said that Abby was obnoxious well she didn't say it on stage she was just they were talking about it with each other like isn't it so interesting that she's become

who she's become in the world but she was kind of like you know the lab you know would jump on your back and like mess your hair up and back in like the 80s hair was a thing for girls they just started that is obnoxious the hair spray you know and I would like jump on my sister's friend's backs and I would mess up their perms and their big claw bangs Abby did you tell them that well-behaved women rarely make history and so I think that like I've been fondly thinking of my younger self because she had a knowing that was not yet proven by life experience yet, but like a deep belief. And I really like that kid.

And so I think one of the things that I come into contact with now in my adulthood is I have kind of pushed aside the obnoxious parts of my self. myself of my childlike self for fear of rejection or for for fear of conflict or tumult because it behooves you in the in my family dynamic in my friends dynamic in my world dynamic I have I have kind of cast aside my child self for belonging and one of the biggest, one of the greatest stories of my relationship life is that I am too much, that eventually my partner will see that I am this obnoxious thing, that they need to slowly and methodically and lovingly, but methodically make me more of an adult version of the childlike self.

And I am incomplete and utter revolt on that right now. in my therapy. I realize that I am in communion with and belonging with other people and in relation with my family and my wife. And I think that that's really important that I do make compromise and I'm not obnoxious and loud all the time because we're living communally and I think that that's important. But I think that there are parts to my childlike self that I miss, that I don't want to push aside.

like and this is not the greatest example but I have had such an extraordinary time playing and the reason why I was such a good soccer player is because I really did think of it for a long time as something I just got to play it wasn't like yes it was hard but there were so like the times when I was absolutely at my best on the field was when I just felt like, oh my gosh, like I have the, I'm the luckiest person. I have this insanely awesome job. I get to travel the world. This is before I got tired and old and things started to hurt more, where it became less

fun and less playful and became more work and hard. But I want to get back to the cultivating because it's a mindset for me. Like I'm trying to cultivate this mindset of child like, uh, and openness and play and fun and I'm not going to fall victim to the world or capitalism or business or parenting like my god parenting is the number one killer of play what it is because because all you're doing is you're obsessing and you're responsible for not letting harm come to these children and so it takes up so much of your spirit and your mind and you have to like there's something that happens that like you

you have to pretend being and i have to feel sometimes i feel like i have to pretend being an adult a lot totally that's all i feel that i'm like i know what i know what's going on here and we've i've got this i've got you guys yeah yeah and i don't i don't got you i don't got nothing i don't got you i'm just like a child who is kind of obnoxious and says weird shit sometimes and I don't know why but like sometimes people think it's funny sometimes people think is obnoxious sometimes people are offended by it so anyway this is a lot of times all three in one yeah did I do it just then no okay um I also know that sometimes we do have to adapt in our childlike ways so that they don't become maladaptive.

And so one of the things I really want to talk about is this idea of the wound that happened in me when I was a child where I didn't think that I was getting enough quality attention from the people that I really wanted it from, which was my mom and my dad. I should just say my mother because I didn't actually, I never felt a wound for my dad, noticing. I really wanted my mother's attention. When you have seven people that you are tending to, as my mother did, she only had space for me for a little bit of time, right? And she did her best. I really do believe that she did her best. But for this spirit, it wasn't enough. And so then I started using as a coping mechanism sports to get the undivided

attention that I was seeking, which then became a maladaptive practice of actually not feeling worthy enough, right? Like, is any of this making sense? Yes, your performance. Your worthiness came from performance instead of existence. Exactly. It's also making sense of jumping on people's back and stealing their claw clips if you're not getting enough attention at all. Yeah. It really does. It's a direct line, really. Yeah. And so, I don't know. I, I, I really love that little kid because that little kid had to have these big dreams. And I've really, I've thought a lot about trying to understand how a person can, in their minds, believe deeply that they could win an Olympic gold medal without women's soccer even being in the Olympics yet.

like I think about that a lot like because you did tell them about that you used to write yeah I think I might have talked about this on the pod squad before but on the pod before but I used to write in a journal in eighth grade prior to women's soccer being in the summer Olympics my name is abbey Wambach and I will win an Olympic old medal for women's soccer you know what that is that's obnoxious yes like the level of obnoxious you have to be to believe that you're going to win a gold medal in something that doesn't exist is the same thing. Like it's the blessing and the curse. You're jumping on life and you're just messing up its hair.

You're just like holding on for dear life. Yes. And it's obnoxious and also sweet. In a good way. That's what she means. No, I'm saying the same life force is in both things. I've always been the kind of person that knew there was more out there for me to experience and explore. I'm an experiential human. And when I was a kid, I think a lot of my anxiety,

like a lot of my frustration was that I felt like there was so much more that I just, it was like just beyond my vision, you know? And so I had to curate a lot of this inside of myself and I had to like dream up a lot of this. And now how this has become a little bit maladaptive for me is that we, Glenn and you and I are trying to define and determine what enough is. And so the thing that propelled me into the greatest experience of life I could envision was this utter belief and this intuition that there was something more I could be a part of and create with and experience. And now there's the conversation that we're having is like, is what we have right now enough

rather than going out and trying to express more dream, more experience into the world. And I think that's where I struggle. That's where I'm struggling right now. That makes such good sense. In like the maladaptive approach to this worthiness, childlike wonder, awe, play, bringing it into adulthood. But does shutting down, are the dreams? that I have just me participating more in capitalism and being like on the treadmill of keeping up with the Joneses or is it a part of my constitution and my spirit around what I know makes

me the happiest around exploring the world and being in the most different and interesting experiences that this body can be in. I don't know. That's all I'm going to say. Well, it's really making sense of, I don't think I mentioned this before, but when we were having that conversation about, is it possible that we just, everything we've ever dreamed of and need and want is already here, and we don't have to strive for anything else? What if the dream of the next thing is ruining is a false thing?

Like, is the pursuit of happiness being the problem as opposed to just being happy? The American dream being the problem as opposed to like looking at reality and saying this is beautiful this is good enough yeah and i as we were talking about that abby looked at me and said i feel like you're talking about end-of-life stuff and i and i just didn't even know what she meant and then i but i've been thinking about that so much and i think it's so fascinating because the way i was thinking about it was like oh she equates the striving or the reaching towards whatever's next as life itself.

So if you stop that and just sit in the enoughness, then that is what people do before they die. That's giving up. That's giving up. Right. And so that's how I was thinking about why she said that. But I think also what you're saying is it has to do with your identity, like what you have, the way you have always experienced. to the world is adventure so you're you're hearing me say what if we don't adventure anymore not okay got it the way something was introduced to you if it was like a weapon against you

or an invitation for you and it sounds like for you the like loud obnoxious girl who was dreaming of things that didn't exist and was being told subtly or overtly what you have is enough just stop just it's fine be grateful stop it's enough it was being used as like a weapon to tamp you down and to like contain you and of course then when someone tells you isn't this enough you're going to receive it within that same framework which is well you're just asking me to stop expanding and to stop dreaming and to stop, you know, finding who I am. And so that makes total sense because it's the original framework is how, of course, you're going to have to deal with that before you get to the other side. That's right. That's a good way of

putting it too. Yeah. Interesting. It's kind of scary to me. Like when you said that, I just, I felt like, I felt, honestly, I felt like, oh, this is how we end it. This is how we go. I know that sounds insane. I don't think it does. I don't think it does. And I also completely understand, like, the, the experiment and the thought experience of, like, is it my life force energy? Or is it?

a proxy to the capitalistic treadmill. Right. Like what is it? Like what is the, where is it coming from? Is this the essence of me in my, my, in the way that I experienced the world in my life and the vision of my life? Or is it the conditions that I've been a part of that are making me chase something more for like relevance?

Well, there's two different ways, though. Like, for example, if you're on a boat, there is the way of looking at adventure that is like, this boat that we're on needs to go somewhere else, needs to voyage somewhere else, right? That there's a new destination where joy will be. There's a new place. But there's also the kind of adventure that's like, I'm going to scoop it off. Like, I'm going to jump off this boat and I'm going to see what's in the sea right below.

me. So I guess what I wonder is, is there a way of melding the two? Like, is there a way of using your adventure spirit, your beautiful childlike passion to mine every moment for as much joy as possible? And instead of leading the boat somewhere else for that adventure, scuba diving into what we have right now. And like mining everything, where we live and our relationship and like the everything around us diving deeper into that because what I think is when you move the boat over and over again as your only form of adventure you miss 90% of the joy that was in the place you just were yeah I get that for sure and that's the struggle I feel like the tension that I'm experiencing right now in thinking about a retirement and how do how do I want to feel

that retirement and I don't know I just I the way I'm just trying to reorganize my mind around whether or not I can achieve the feeling that I'm thinking about and hoping to experience in my retirement in the current the exact current place that we are right now I don't know if there needs to be some sort of movement of the boat or not I don't know I don't know is a great And now it's time for our ads. Most people don't realize they're running low on one of the most vital minerals for human health. Magnesium. With 10 highly bioavailable forms of magnesium plus 70 plus essential minerals, it provides total magnesium support, helping you sleep better, think clearer, move stronger,

and feel your best every day. I've been taking quality of magnesium plus at 9.5. for the past few weeks, and the difference has been real. I fall asleep faster, I feel clearer and more grounded during the day. It feels like my body is finally getting what it's been missing. Experience the most trusted magnesium for purity, potency, and performance. Go to qualialife.com slash hard things for 50% off. And here's a bonus. Use the code hard things for an additional 15% sent off your order. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A, life.com slash hard things. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. Hi Pod Squad. Abby here. I'm here with my friend and co-host of our new show. Welcome to the party. Hi, Pod Squad. We would love to invite you over to check out our new show. Welcome to

the party. It's really about the sports for those of you who might not be sports focused or centric. But it's also about celebrating and uplifting the stories around athletes and leaders across soccer, basketball, hockey, softball, the Olympics, you name it. It is our mission to bring the joy and love of sport and these women to all of you. If you don't know all of them, it's okay because we'll explain it to you. So check us out on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. We have new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. You will not be disappointed.

thank you pod squad and one of these days we're going to do the sports episode with glennon so come and find us us okay glennon you're up well i would just want to say that i don't have as clear a viewpoint as either of you do truly about this situation i do not have a good a clear perspective of what I was like as a kid at all in any way. So I did my vest. I actually texted mom last night because she had a couple months ago texted me a poem that she found that I wrote, I think, in third grade. And then I couldn't find it.

So I texted her last night. I said, can you find that poem? and then she sent it and then I just wanted to tell you that she said I asked Alice where it was and she found it in five minutes so I don't really understand that like why she asked her granddaughter did Alice organize daughter knew where the poem was in fact do you know how that happened yeah they were over last night and apparently my mom said she had texted it to you sometime over the last several years yes she was going back and looking at several years of photographs And having as little luck as you would imagine she'd have with that. Yes. And she and Alice said, what are you doing? And she said, I'm looking for this poem. And then Alice asked what it was about.

So apparently there were some search terms like Reagan. Oh, that's. And war and things such as this, that it took a couple of search terms. But then Alice found it. And then Tisha thought that she. she was a genius. Well, she is a genius. She is a genius.

Do you guys ever wonder what that's going to be like for us in like 30 years? It already is. I'm like, how do I turn the flashlight on on the phone without it? It's already like that. I never know how to find my flashlight. And I also turn it off and then turn it back on just to get to the same screen where I always know the flashlight is.

And same with the camera. I can never find my camera. So I miss every moment. And the whole family has taken 10 pictures before I get out my camera. So I have no idea if this poem reflects who I was as a child. But this is what we have to work with, okay? Okay, we'll analyze it. Okay, this is the poem that I wrote in third grade.

It's called Hope. Just get ready, Pod Squad. Libya, Russia, America. Gaddafi, Gorbachev, Reagan. Three different places. three different people is war the answer what is war hatred tears and broken hearts peace question mark a smile handshake happiness and trust a disagreement is two different ways of thinking oh an agreement

is a compromise. Oh, my God. Isn't peace the answer? Question mark? Okay. What I want to say about this poem is a couple of things. The only thing that I remember about this poem

is a feeling in my body. Okay? I can actually identify a feeling in my body after having written this poem and the feeling in my body was could be translated as this is going to do it I gotta get this to

Gorbajah 100% I typed this last word and thought this is what's going to do it that wasn't even that hard no like the problem is probably that Gaddafi, Gorbachev and Reagan just don't know that a disagreement is two

different ways of thinking. And so, and once they see this, the possibilities that we could have sadness, or on the other hand, we could have smiles and a handshake. Like when I tell you that I could imagine that somehow this poem that I wrote in Miss Wilson's class in Cherry Run and Burke, Virginia was going to find its way to Gaddafi Gorbachev and Reagan, and that they

were going to probably be sitting around a table and that someone was going to come in and say, hark. Hark! We have received a poem from Cherry Run, a little girl named Glenn and Doyle. And that they were going to listen, and they were going to go,

yes peace is the answer yeah and that that was going to do it they had never in low so many negotiations considered that the the question isn't peace the answer they thought we had never thought of that they probably hadn't to be totally honest with you thought of that yeah but i just i just amazing like let's take aside the whole point of this yeah in terms of like trying to create peace with Russia and the US I want to just dig into these two lines that make me know you better okay and make me understand the way you think about conflict which is revolutionary for me okay a disagreement is two different ways of thinking yeah what that's amazing okay and then an agreement is a compromise yeah it's not like you have to totally agree with

someone to reach an agreement it's like we have an agreement when you think about it a contract is an agreement she probably really didn't want it to narrow out to five cents a day but we made an agreement but it's my contract right it's my version of saying i have a way of looking at this that i think will protect all of us better. Yeah. And it's just different forms. But are you saying that you think it's interesting to think about disagreement, not as we're both looking at the same things and drawing different conclusions, but that we are thinking

about things in different ways, not necessarily even having different opinions. Yes. Just a different thought approach to each problem. Yes. Yes. And also, I just think it's interesting because it makes me understand the way that you engage like conflict is like no like that is the worst thing to happen that is the end of the road and for me reading that when you're however old how old were you I think a third grade third grade you're

eight years old to know that you're like conflict it's just two different ways of thinking it doesn't have to be so serious except Gaddafi Syria but then Gorbachech. But then on the other hand, an agreement is a compromise. Yeah. So that means, like, there's space in between every bit of it. Right. Does that make sense? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Like, there's protective measurements inside of it, too. Like, in order for us to get to where we need to go, doesn't mean we have to emmish ourselves. Right. Right. Like, you're not giving up your entire worldview because you've reached an agreement. it's not like okay you're right about everything yes it's like an agreement is a compromise it's like i still think x you still think why but we're agreeing on z and i don't have to like give up my personhood yes and that is so important to me so maybe that was my way of saying

the kadafi and me sees the kadafi and you and i know that you don't want anyone to change you Gorbachev. So, nor do I. So let me present to you war and peace in a different way. Not where you have to lose who you are or you're subsumed by anyone else, but in a middle road where we can both remain ourselves and find a path forward. So thank you, Abby. Okay, that is something. And, you know, I just think that, I don't know if it's a stretch, but there's some sweetness to a little kid trying to solve war across the planet in her classroom. And there's that I feel honoring of my inner child. And also there's a bit of a grandiosity to it.

There's a bit of a like, from whence did I get the idea that anyone asked me to solve this problem as an eight-year-old? Or like the idea that if I just put words in the correct order, I will be understood and everyone else will understand that the problem in the world is just that no one's written the right poem yet all the problems in the world result from my failure to communicate

that's oh my God I really do believe that I really do believe that I really do believe that it's some version of the AA personality that's like I am the piece of shit around which the world

revolves. Narcissism and neuroticism completely hand in hand at the same time. You know what else I got from that poem? Thinking very, very carefully about those two lines. You just said, I just thought to myself, huh, I think the word dis, comes from having a disagreement with someone. You're dissing them. Do you think?

Oh, I do. Yeah. Okay. That's neither. also could come from like disempowering them or like a lot i guess a lot of things but that might be right maybe right just thrown it out there for consideration that was the takeaway um okay before we stop this is what we need to do real quick briefly i think each of us needs to say you know all the rage of reparenting our inner child what is it about our inner our child our child our child

child self that we want to honor and bring into the world and which parts do we feel like show up in a way that we could upgrade right like in service of that child now that we have an adult consciousness what parts of our inner child do we want to let lead and which parts do we want to say oh honey that maybe not that i think i'll just go first but okay i think that we all know for me no we don't well we do we've talked about it the whole time and during my part the joy i'm letting joy lead my life right now and play okay great amanda i think that i would like to um honor the part of me that wants to love and care for myself and the people I love with a lot of energy and resourcefulness and planning

and care and love that part of me and I would also like to encourage that part of me to drive less defensively to to allow life to unfold without feeling like it's reckless driving to allow um i want to figure out my goal in life these days is to heal my nervous system so that i know what is actual danger and what is actually just life nice that's good it's really good okay well i asked you guys the question i don't exactly know what mine is but I think maybe it has to do with having the goal of expression just be expression and not thinking that it's some divine job to fix everything or I think that it's a mess in my life. So something about that.

Okay, something about that. And we love you, Pots Squad, and thank you for hanging in there with us. Thank you for the question. That was such a fun. That was so fun. Yes. And everybody get a little picture of themselves as a kid and keep it close. That is a hack, okay?

Just do that. Just do that. Put it close to you and see how it changes things for you as you remember your little tender child self doing the best she could. We love you, Pod Squad. See you next time. We can do hard. is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for

humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us at We Can Do Hard Things on Instagram and at We Can Do Hard Things show on TikTok.