We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Fixing Ben & Jerry's After the Meltdown

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Ben & Jerry’s, the iconic mission-driven ice cream brand, has hit a rocky patch. Co-founder Jerry Greenfield’s public exit after 47 years has raised big questions about what happens when a brand��s activist soul meets corporate strategy. Aaron, Melissa, and Qadira dig into how Unilever can protect Ben & Jerry’s social mission, rebuild trust with customers, and chart a bold path forward without its founding duo steering the ship. From how to handle vocal founders on the outside to doubling down on values inside, this episode is a masterclass in managing founder-brand tension and preserving legacy in the corporate era. 🧠 What We Cover: The roots of Ben & Jerry’s mission-driven identity Why founder departures can shake a brand’s core How Unilever can re-anchor Ben & Jerry’s in its values Balancing global business strategy with social activism Governance, communications, and culture as tools for the fix Turning public tension into brand opportunity 🧰 Key Fixes Discussed: Double down on the mission: Recommit publicly to the values that made the brand unique. Operationalize the values: Embed activism into business strategy, not just storytelling. Create a new “guardian of the brand soul”: A face or team dedicated to carrying the mission forward. Leverage Unilever’s scale: Use Ben & Jerry’s as a flagship for cause-driven campaigns across all brands. Anticipate founder pushback: Build a strong comms plan to stay steady in public discourse. Codify the culture: Make the mission bigger than any one founder. Subscribe for more deep dives where we fix big business problems with fresh perspectives. • Website – www.wefixeditpod.com • Follow us on: Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wefixeditpod LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wefixeditpod YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@WeFixedItPod If you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends! Keep listening to find out how we fix companies and put them back better than we found them. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. Okay, Melissa, Kedera, today we're talking Ben and Jerry's. Because of dissenting political opinions, things have gotten pretty steamed over there for an ice cream company. Relationships have grown frosty, and it led to the recent departure of co-founder Jerry Greenfield after 47 years. Goodbye, Jerry. We're going to talk about. what happens when you part ways with a highly visible founder, what to do when that founder becomes a vocal critic and maybe even a liability, and whether a company can grow as big as Ben and Jerry's and stay both mission and profit-driven, all of it. Then we're going to fix this situation and handed back with a cherry on top. Kadira and Melissa, are we ready for this?

Let's do it. All right. Well, before we go forward, let's jump back in time for a sec. So Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield founded Ben and Jerry's in 1978 in a renovated gas station in Vermont. From the beginning, the brand was built around indulgent ice cream, fun flavors, and cause-driven ideals of social responsibility. Over two decades, Ben and Jerry's became synonymous with progressive values, often standing up for causes like environmentalism, fair trade, and social justice. Of course, their grassroots success, aka sales, revenue, attracted corporate interest. Ben and Jerry's was acquired by consumer goods giant Unilever for $326 million. Whoa. But amazingly, the founders, Ben and Jerry, struck a unique deal to preserve the company's

independent voice on social issues under the new owner. So now you get a big conglomerate Unilever owning an ice cream company that wears its progressive heart on its tie-died sleeve. What could possibly go wrong? Well, like we said, Jerry just left. saying he could not in good conscience remain at Ben and Jerry's. He's accusing Unilever of erasing the very social mission that made the brand famous, and his exit has not been a quiet farewell.

It's been a very public break. In an open letter, he said that Unilever essentially removed any platform the company once had in support of peace, justice, and human rights, and said that it's profoundly disappointing to come to the conclusion that that independence is gone. A spokesperson for Unilever said that while they are forever grateful to Jerry, they do not align with his perspective. In other words, thanks for the ice cream dude, but shut it. The company insists it will stay committed to Ben and Jerry's values of peace, love, and ice cream, with or without the founders on board. So Unilever's towing the company line, as of right now Ben's staying put to exert his influence, Jerry's outbearer on the outside speaking his mind, that's the scoop.

So, Kadira, this situation has corporate responsibility written all over it. Where do we even start? Yeah. Look, this is the, I think, inevitable tension, right? That I think happens when you've got this mission-led brand. I love mission-led brands, but when they go mainstream, especially after acquisition. So, you know, just as you pointed out, like, in the early days, the founder is the brand. It is the voice, right?

Their values, their voice, their activism. it is what people are buying into, right, when they're buying that product. And for Ben and Jerry's, their whole identity was about activism and pushing boundaries and standing up for what they believed in without compromise. But as the business grows and, you know, as we see here, definitely around acquisition, all of that's going to get tested because your social responsibility and your social impact values, it's no longer just about answering your conscience. When you're a part of a global corporation, everything, including how you're responding to the environment, how you're responding to communities,

is getting filtered through risk management. Shareholder expectations, right? Global market dynamics. You're now answering to a board. You're now answering to investors. Your compliance team is calling and emailing. So it can get messy really quick. I think the company now, now that has acquired this brand, has the responsibility to navigate this complexity in a way that it just didn't before. And that's what we're saying. And when the founder, unfortunately, doesn't go along with it, even if their critique is grounded in truth and their truths in just what's happening around us in the world today, that tension and that conflict can start to feel like, you know, a liability, just really honest. And so I think what has to happen in order for, and there are definitely, you know, examples out there of companies that thrive when there is that tension with founders or there might be some, you know, difference in the opinion of how things should move forward. But it really does require a company moving from, you know, whether it's their social impact, their social responsibility, how they're going to scale the product or the brand.

They have to move from becoming founder dependent to values driven, right? And I'm not saying that's easy. It's hard. But it absolutely is necessary if a brand wants to survive and stay relevant beyond its origin story. Again, Ben and Jerry's has this amazing origin story. But it's a new day. It's a new day for the company. And so if they want to evolve from being, you know, remember that company?

What was the name of that company? Right? To, hey, here's who we are today. And we're going to stay true. And we're still going to take some of that original origin story and bake that in. but it has to evolve and there's strategy around making that happen. So not impossible. Hard, yes, but not impossible.

Well, I don't think we've seen it too much the other way where a company is very corporate and very profit-driven. And all of a sudden, their light goes on and they become all about social responsibility. It happens, I guess, but we're seeing, you know, it happens probably more often. It's a situation like this where there's a socially driven company that is all about, mission and values and along with, you know, the sales and profit and all that stuff. But that's first and foremost what they stand for. And then they get acquired.

That's more of a common scenario. And we're stuck in that, we'll call it a sticky situation right now where we're seeing those tensions play out. You have a company that this, everything they stand for is like I said, hard on their sleeve. And now they have to, you know, you become part of a known entity. You have to fall in line in a way. And it's, it's, it's painful. We're all seeing it happen. It is painful.

Yeah. And I think, Kadira, you really highlighted this beautifully, is that it's not necessarily just a founder that is in conflict with the kind of the corporate entity of the business. It's actually that this founder, the two founders created this entire company based. on the social DNA, right? The social mission DNA, right? And so really, I think there's a couple things, and Erin, you were kind of touching on this as well, but you really need to acknowledge that this isn't just, you know, him leaving. There's a lot more emotion in that, in that poll.

And so really what Unilever needs to do is not ignore it, acknowledge it, especially they need to openly validate that there is a true sense of loss and uncertainty and change is very hard, right? So they need to be candid with their teams, with their customers. The goal is really to make people feel like they're part of something and heard and prevent them from feeling like their loyalty to their founder was not valid, right? Like they have to stay loyal to Unilever and not to Ben and Jerry. So they really need to reach. anchor to the mission and not the individual, which is Kadir what you were saying, right? Like, unfortunately, it's, they need to publicly and repeatedly recommit to the core social

mission of Ben and Jerry's and the employees and the customers that are loyal to that. There was a similar type of reaction that was very negative at Pixar after John Lasseter's exit, and they did the right thing by not trying to replace him. But they empowered new leaders like Pete Doctor and refocused everyone on their core purpose, which was telling great stories, right? So that's what I think they have to do in order to protect the brand, right? Is they need to go in almost double, you know, to address just the mass whole that is being left by this founder leaving because it's not like the founder, the cold play incident or something like that where, you know, it's not like that because, you know, his DNA is what created this amazing

brand and this ice cream, right? It was all about the social mission and cause. So. Yeah. Yeah. Melissa, I like what you're saying. And maybe I agree. But let's, I'll be cynical for a Do they have to? Do they have to double down on the values or do they have enough of a global imprint and people who love the brand and are committed and have their buying habits? You know, you like Chunky Monkey. You just keep buying Chunky Monkey. Like, do we need the side of the carton to talk about mission-driven values? Or are we okay without it? I'll just be a cynic for a sec. Well, I think a brand can exist without its founder, but it also risks losing that authentic magic of what makes it different, right? So if you think about another example of where the brand kind of lost it was it's kind of heartbreaking as famous Amos cookies, right? when Wally Amos lost control of his own name and brand through the financially he needed to, you know, because he had kind of overextended himself. And the company lived on, sold and resold and became, you know, but it became a shell of what the original self was, right? You wanted famous Amos cookies for what they were, right?

It became more of a mass-produced cookie that lost that homemade and sold that he had kind of embodied. So I guess there's a cautionary tale to that, right? So yes, there's the business aspect of it. And, you know, for years, it hasn't been the same Beninjuries anyway. It's been under Unilever. But I think that to address his very critical letter to the company as he exited, I think it would make sense to double down on the social mission. Now, I understand that as a company, maybe they don't want to, right? But then what is the point of Ben and Jerry's, you know, being, you know, kind of the standalone.

I mean, that's one of the cool things about their ice cream, right? Like, you've got that and you've got the really different kinds of things that they promote. So in my mire, I don't think it's necessarily. a bad, I don't think it's like a bad thing for, you know, labor to do that, to double down on it. But I understand, Erin, what you're saying is that, like, in a corporate environment, is it necessary? Right. But there's a lot of competition in ice cream. So that's the other thing. That's right. Yeah. I completely agree. It's like, do they have to? No, right? Like, they can do what they want.

They can evolve this brand however they want to. I think that's where transparency. communication, all the things, you know, we know that companies should be doing, especially once they, you know, there's an acquisition. I think we also have to remember that customers, stakeholders are expecting for the brand to evolve. The company was acquired for a reason, right? And it doesn't even have to be negative reasons. But I think, I completely agree with Melissa. I think it makes sense for them to double down. And I think the other thing that's going to be really important. I mean, again, just like you said, there's so many ice cream brands out there, and this is really what sets Ben and Jerry's apart. And so I think, you know, they,

they are still saying that they want to still hold true to that and live into that. It's just going to look different than what the founders originally had in mind. And so I think, you know, that means then that they are going to have to look at this more than just treating the purpose and the social impact and social value of the ice cream that it's always carried and what its legacy has been beyond, you know, a brand story, beyond just the storytelling, but really start to think about how they can operational. the mission, right? And so then, like, if they're able to look at this as, how are we going to use, like, our social impact and social responsibility connected to Ben and Jerry's as a business driver and not just, you know, again, kind of like something, you know, just kind of a fly-by-night, we're chasing the next shiny thing, then I think that they have a real opportunity to continue on with the legacy around, like, what separates this ice cream from the 25 other ice cream,

brands on the shelf in the freezer, right? And beyond that, I think they then remove themselves from being dependent on one voice or two voices in this case. But again, if they start to embed it in their strategy, if they embed it in the culture, if they embedded in their decision making, we can talk about frameworks later, right? Then we're starting to see that they're like,

okay, we actually are tying the mission of this ice cream brand into how we're thinking about profit, how we're thinking about communities, how we're thinking about our stakeholders. So again, is it necessary? No. Do they have to do it? No. They could go in a completely different direction with this ice cream brand.

But again, it's like it's who the brand is. So while they don't have to completely lean into what the original founders were saying and doing, and again, we expect evolution, I think it benefits them tremendously to actually figure out how to lean in to what the ice cream brand has always. been, but just bring it into the present day and think about what the future means. One we're speaking and made me think of something as well is that they could use this across their companies, across all of their brands. So what they could do is really double down on, for example, activist flavors, right, and cause marketing.

And, Aaron, they could actually make, you know, limited batch flavors or whatever it might be, right? Sure. And have it go across their brands in like, this is the month for, okay, you know, October's breast cancer awareness or whatever it could be. So they could have an activist flavor that tied in to maybe one of their other brands that would be like a personal care brand or something like that in which they're kind of aligning at all and saying this is, you know, we are deeply, deeply committed. these causes. And this is how you're going to see it. And we're going to be using profits from this to help fund, you know, a cancer ward here in an underserved community or whatever it might be. But like the ability for them to actually kind of align it and have it been woven into some of their other brands actually kind of elevates this whole idea that Ben, and jerry's was kind of the the lighthouse that started at all, right? And that would be really

kind of a cool thing for them to do to show, you know, we're not just corporate. We're also about what's important and what's important to our communities that we serve, as well as the communities within our company. I like that. I have my issues with awareness campaigns, but let's say they took it and actually did something with it and actually committed fun. to a cause and use banden juries as the driver for that. But then you're saying create a halo or ripple effect across their other brands. So if there's an ingredient or some type of flavor, maybe that becomes the, you know, the theme of the month. But there's a cause or there's a charitable component or something behind it.

I could get on board with that. But I don't know why I'm playing devil's advocate today. But is cream like what's on? That's all right, but that's a lot of work. They could have to do that. That's a lot of work. Do they need to? So it's Unilever.

They've got Magnum. They've got other ice cream brands under their umbrella. They've got a problem child in Ben and Jerry's right now at the moment. Do you know, do they cut their, that's not even lost. I'm presuming it's worth more than they paid for it. Do they shake it free and say go? You know, you have a voice that doesn't align with ours. Go live and prosper.

independent again. Get your board to buy, you know, buy you back. Do you know, do they double down? I don't know why I'm pressing the plan, but I got it to wonder, yes, they could, of course, they could put more work into it. But would they, should they? I mean, I think, look, they acquired this company for a reason, right? They acquired the company for a reason. True. And, you know, we understand that when acquisitions happen, there's a number of reasons why. And so I think they need to go back to kind of their why. Why did we acquire this company? We know that some of the things around kind of the original Ben and Jerry's mission

and some of their, you know, social impact and social values was like contractually put into place. If I, if I'm remembering the story correctly, like in the original kind of agreement that was put into place. But I think then interpretation starts to happen and evolution does happen and leadership changes happen. We start to, you know, especially from a social responsibility perspective, have to think about how are we going to respond to kind of what's happening in the world around us. The pendulum swings back and forth. And again, it requires companies to be consistent, but also adaptable. So I don't think it's about, you know, I guess my point is like, they acquired the company for a reason. I don't think that they have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They're going through, right, this kind of this

tension and season of just kind of discord with the founder. I don't think they need to cut them loose. I think what they need to do is, again, kind of come into present day, put a friend. framework together in terms of, you know, saying, okay, look, founder or founders, we understand that, you know, originally when you established this brand, here's what you stood for. We respect that. It's one of the reasons why we acquire the company because we valued it and we know that our customers value it. Here, based on where we are today as a world and as a company, here's where we see that we can have the biggest impact because the company can't respond to every cause across the world. Right. Right. And so here's what where we know that we can have the most value. you. We want you to be aligned. Work really, really hard to get that alignment with the founders because we value them. But at the end of the day, you know, the founder might be the North Star, but that company has to chart the course forward. And that's really what we're talking about is present day and forward. And then once they put that framework in place to say, here's where we are today, here's where we know that we can have the most value, here's where we're headed. And we're going to leave

ourselves wiggle room to adapt to what is going on around us in society because we know that things are going to bubble up, especially from a social perspective and we need to be prepared to respond to those because our stakeholders care, that then allows them to say, we don't have to get rid of this brand because we're going through this tough season. This has actually helped us to establish who we are today and who we want to be going forward with the input of the legacy of who the company originally was. I don't know, Melissa, what do you think? I really like that.

I think that it's, I truly believe that that's the very unique and reason for Ben and Jerry's. And so to me, like the business aspect of it, I get it. But I love what you've been saying, Kadira, about the ongoing transformation and change that's happening in this world. So we know that they're like we've said, there's a gazillion flavors. There's a gazillion different ice cream companies. You know, there's all these types of things. But you want to have your niche brand really staying at top means that they're going to have to adapt as well. And so I do think there's an answer internally to the company and those that remain still there

about why this change was necessary and that it's not necessarily. a bad thing that he called them out about like, you know, we were built on the foundation of a social mission and it feels like there aren't any of those causes that they're being, you know, elevated by the brand anymore. So that's okay. But I think the ability to move forward from that and have a plan, which could be an activist in chief, right? Like somebody who is more associated with the company not a founder, right? But kind of the person who's leading the way on the head of the social mission and that beloved flavor guru and is the one who announces, you know, this is our next flavor, you know, thing. And, you know, becomes the new guardian of the brand soul,

so to speak. Peers and ads, talks about the causes, not just about chocolate or strawberry or what the flavors are. And she, shows that this mission has become institutionalized and it's not just a personal thing. I think to me, that's the one thing. I mean, I am, I love ice cream. And so don't get me wrong. I will go anywhere that there's ice cream. But I do feel like there's something about Ben and Jerry's that makes you want to buy it. Right. And so I am guilty about eating a whole. I do feel like that they have that. opportunity. And again, looking at it from the business perspective, I think that they can kind of capitalize on a little bit of this noise that's happening right now, right? Because not,

you know, sometimes, you know, I don't know. I'm not the marketing person here, but like, you know, not all news is bad news, right? You know, like, so if you're in, if you're in the spotlight right now, Ben and Jerry's hasn't been in the spotlight for a while. So like now that they are, you know, take advantage of that. And that's what I'm saying about doubling down. is that like the company can say, yes, he was a founder. He's the one who started this whole thing. He was the lightning rod. But like now it's, it's, we're worldwide, right?

Um, and global. And so what we need to do is we need to ensure we have the best product, right? And that's expensive. Uh, we need to ensure that we, you know, that we're not over indexed. We don't have a bazillion. flavors and then we kind of dilute our entire brand and that we you know you know we're committed to that social mission and that's why we're going to do limited releases we're you know unlimited flavors and then we're going to keep our core chunky monkey fish food all those that are going to

stay stay on the shelf right so i do think um there's an opportunity here and i do think that there's So they do need to continue to grow and become, you know, competitive. And that's what Unilever provides them, the ability to transform their brand from just, you know, the pint in the, in the grocery store to all of the stores that they have. You know, they have free cone day. They have, you know, now do they have, and I don't even know if they do this. you know, like ice cream sandwiches, all the other things that they could do to kind of impart their brand and grow it. Because at the end of the day, it's not, you know, Ben and Jerry may have wanted it to be a nonprofit, but it's not. It's not a nonprofit. Yeah, that's a big megaphone.

It's well beyond the scoop shop with a little, you know, community pig pegboard in the back with the pins on it. You can get your message out in a giant way that way. So, but I'm so argumentative today. say. She has not used ice cream yet. No, no, it must be. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so Unilever does that. They appoint someone to be their values, the face of their values.

They take a stance. They take a hardline stance. They happen to be, you know, they've mission driven, social driven. They happen to be tied. But Unilever's mission driven approaches happen to be tied to popular causes that bring customers, that bring revenue. and they have to think that way. What if the founders, Banjuri, et cetera,

whether or not they're part of the company anymore, what if they're activist driven too, and they have stances that are anti what the companies, unilevers, vocal, we're taking a stand type of stances are, and they could take a bite out of profitability. What's the responsibility of the company to diffuse or answer to those situations or go back to the founders?

Again, whether or not they're involved, How do you play both sides of that equation? Well, I think this is where strong governance and having that long-term clarity, you know, Melissa, I think that's a really great point, right? Like, these companies are in business to make money. They're not nonprofits. Again, when an acquisition happens, one of the benefits, right, typically being acquired by a larger company is that scale. and that scope and, you know, being able to grow the business and all those things and providing that long-term clarity for the brand that's been acquired.

I think this is this is where that matters. Right. Right. Now, now let's be clear, like brands built on values, right? And for example, in this case where these founders have like these, you know, amazing values around activism and environmentalism and all these things. But the reality is, especially as you grow, you grow beyond being that mom and pot. shop, you know, on the corner in your local neighborhood, at some point there is going to be some tension even if you're not acquired.

And especially when you're acquired on your, you're in a bigger stage and a bigger scale, there's going to be some backlash and there's going to be some tension, right? And so like that's where I think that governance, that's where I think that framework. That's where I think, you know, being really clear about what your values are and how you're going to operationalize them. That's where I think it matters if you're going to be consistent. I love Melissa's idea thinking about how you can bake this into all of your brand across Unilever. Again, that shows such a consistency and clarity. Again, the founders might leave with it from heart when they originally started the company, but that company that acquired, in this case, Unilever, has the leverage and the pull and the scale to say,

we can still live into who you were when you first started this company, but we're going to take it into a much bigger play here. going to put this on a much bigger scale. And again, we're going to bake it into our business strategy in a way that it is going to help us make profit because that is what we're here to do, but it's also going to make sure that we live into our purpose of who we are and who we should be today. So again, I don't think it has to be this either or. Again, I think that you can still bring some of that founder passion and again, that origin story in with a strong framework in place, making sure that you're evolving the mission, again, making sure that you're being adaptable

for what the brand needs to be today. I think where we run into problems is regardless of who it might be, founder, other leadership, et cetera, when we're not rowing in the same direction or willing to kind of, you know, all get on the same page at some point. That tension, a little bit of back and forth, even going public and saying, hey, you know, I don't agree with this. Again, might not be a bad thing. But again, it leaves the opportunity for that bigger company, that parent company to rise up and say,

okay, we heard you. We're going to stay true, but we can still do this in a way that, again, sets this ice cream brand in particular apart from every other ice cream brand that's on the shelf. So I think it absolutely is possible. I think that what you've brought up, you know, Kadira is also an interesting thing because I've been at startups. And this is clearly an issue for many startups as they go and get more money. Okay, as they need more money. Or if they're readying themselves for an IPO or whatever they're doing. It's when your company and brand is so integrated into the founder or whoever it is, right,

that once you sell your soul to private equity, or whoever you're selling it to, right? Sure. You lose control of that. And so, you know, let's get back. Like, he sold the company. Right? And now he doesn't like what they're, what he's done.

But you know what? Somebody pocketed millions and millions of dollars. And it was him. Yeah, right. He's a rich puppy. Right. So like, you know, for him to be saying all these things and who knows if Unilever saved them, because maybe they were.

like not being run the way they whatever um that's a that's a true statement so i'm i'm kind of becoming errant here um so i i wonder you know like i feel like this is a you know this is a topic that we're talking about and we're focused really on ben and jerry right but ben and jerry's but like i do feel like it's very common that this happens especially in startups that may not be super large. And so the whole goal is to grow and grow exponentially, rapid scale, all of those things. And you can't do that if you don't have the money. And so then they get an investment from one of these big, you know, capital groups, PE groups. And they come in and they have a whole different idea. Right? They've like, oh, you've signed your life away. So now we're, we're bringing in our own people. We're bringing, we don't want your CMO friend. We don't want, you know, we don't want Melissa.

We don't want Kadira. We want to bring our whole slew, you know, our suite of executives to the table. And thanks for coming up with this idea, but no thanks. So I kind of feel like that is also a component of it that he may have felt like, gosh, you know, how did he not think that this was possibly going to happen, that they were going to dilute the brand by having it become global, right? Like, and that they were going to, you know, production was going to scale 100,000 percent, you know, how did he think that that was not going to happen?

And I think it's because he felt like he had the social mission, like, locked in, but maybe it rolled Yeah, you lost the narrative. Well, and this situation is even trickier because there are two named founders and Ben's staying in put, which is a way of kind of sanctioning whatever happens, but saying I can do better,

more work from within than I can, you know, critiquing from the outside. So as long as the two of them are split, you know, I think we're going to keep seeing this play out publicly and it could get pretty ugly. Who knows? but having Jerry on the outside. I think of Ben left, you know, I don't know these guys,

but I think they probably, money talks, like the two of them together, they probably might make a run for the company if they got some backers involved. Why wouldn't they, you know? But I wonder, with the two of them, I don't know what the contractual side of the exit was, but what if Jerry started his own ice cream company?

You know, Jerry's original. And would that work on the? market put, would that cause too much consumer confusion? You know, that's a possibility if, if legally he's able to do it at Hawaii, that's what he knows. Why wouldn't he enter the marketplace? Yeah. I mean, he could. I mean, I think, you know, Melissa, you mentioned, what was it, famous famous, famous cookies. I think, you know, the original owner attempted to do something very similar, kind of tried to start a separate brand or a different, you know, brand. He could, right? And, you know, again, depending on what all the workings are behind the scenes or if he's allowed to do that.

And he might have a good number of people who are like, yeah, remember that guy, right? The guy that started, Ben and Jerry's, and I'm super attached to the activism and the things that he was doing. And I don't like the direction that, you know, the acquiring company is going. So, yeah, I'm going to check out, you know, this new thing he's got going on, possibly. But we also have to remember that customers, when we walk in the store, most of us are kind of like, you know, looking for what we usually grab and buy, and most people, Ben and Jerry's is what you grab. That's what you're going to grab if that's what you've been buying. So, again, is it impossible?

No. I want to go back, though, you know, I think, Melissa, you were making a really good point, too, just about, like, hey, how did we not know what we were going to get here? And I think, again, that's such a really good point about, you know, when companies are acquired and, like, we're not we, but collectively, are surprised by some of these changes, even the fallout. Right. Even a founder leaving, right? There shouldn't be any surprise around that because, you know, there are broader responsibilities. The narrative is going to change. Even if, again, they do stay true to the mission and all those things, there are going to be changes that there's going to just cause, you know, again, dissent or, you know, people not being happy. And I think, again, I go back to, we have to remember with these larger companies or companies that are in business to make profit, which most are, there's a broader responsibility to stakeholders, to your shareholders,

to employees, to customers across different cultures and markets. And so I always say what resonates here in the U.S. may not resonate in Kenya, may not resonate in certain parts of India or in China. And if you're

going to grow your brand and be a global company, you have to be thinking about that. And I think the challenge is founders aren't always equipped or even willing to make those tradeoffs, right? And so, you know, that's why I go back to like when those tensions arise and tension is not a bad thing. But when they do, it does become the company, the parent company or the acquiring company's job. Like, don't dismiss what's happening.

Don't bury your head in the sand. Don't just kind of let them talk and hope they go away and that people will forget about it because, as we're saying, folks are not forgetting about when these types of issues kind of bubble up. But again, I think it's the opportunity of that acquiring company to like evolve the mission in a way that you, again, will still honor the spirit of who that brand original was, but again, without being handcuffed to like one person's view, right? Because it no longer is Ben and Jerry, the founder's company. It is now a part of a bigger mission, right? And so I think that's a really good point too you made earlier, Melissa, about like this isn't a bad thing that there's this public kind of, you know, backlash.

Yeah, happening, right? Like, use this as a moment to say, you know what? Thank you. We're going to use this as a moment to actually renew the company. Right. And see what goes from there. So. You know, I think a great example of that where there was controversy was Papa Johns, right?

When he made those really awful, the CEO made those really racist comments and they had to quickly. pivot. And brilliantly they brought in a spokesperson they no one ever thought they would by bringing in Shaquille O'Neal and he helped to turn that whole narrative around, right?

And, you know, I love Kadira, like the idea of really kind of coming up with Kadira's playbook. And really kind of doing these things because I do

believe at the end of the day it is a business. You brought up a really good point, too, that it's a global business now. So like some of the causes that, you know, the hippies from Vermont were, you know, talking about are now no longer relevant to somebody that's living in Germany, right? You know what I mean? So it's interesting that you said that because I was just thinking about like one of our favorite flavors is the Tonight Do. And I'm wondering, like, is the Tonight Show actually a thing any place outside of the United States, right?

You know what I mean? Yeah. So, like, that's an example of, like, that, like, catchy, like, funny, like, little thing with Jimmy Fallon and whatever. It doesn't, it may not even mean anything to anybody else, right? So I do feel like, though, one of the things,

operationally, they need to continue to stay focused. I'm sure they are. I'm sure the business plans are there. But I do think that codifying the why of what Ben and Jerry's is all about, that culture code, the ethos, the brand ethos, their social mission, whatever you want to call it, use it visibly and aggressively as this is still the core of who we are. And it's about that mission, not the person, right? Not the founder. And then empower the team to be keepers of that flame, keepers of that mission, right? You know, like we talked about, like having them, you know, formally empower, you know, certain ambassadors or, you know, flavor ambassadors or mission ambassadors, whatever you want to call them, and give them an opportunity to become like guardians of that culture,

right? Because I think that's what he is saying in his letter that that culture, like, it's all gone, right? You know, and is it or is it just that he's gone, right? And then kind of ritualize those values and creating like maybe company-wide traditions and like, you know, active, you know, how, show how they're using this, you know, social platform and activism to actually help drive some of their different brands and their businesses, right? And so, you know, when you have, you know, an amazing cause or, you know, you have something, you can all rally, you know, the brands that are most likely to be impacted, rally around that, you know, and also create more noise. Like, we've talked about this with a lot of different, this whole fomo, you know, moment. That's everybody's thing, right? Like the little boo-boo, right? FOMO, you know, I want to get it. So have them be like short-term flavors, right?

Have them be something that like, oh, you can only find these in these places, right? You know, like maybe, you know, there's things that are trying to help drive small businesses. So they're like, you're only going to find these flavors at your local bodega. You know, you're not going to find them at Ralph's or Publix or King Supers or anything like that, right? You know, I mean, what are they trying to do? So, and they're not going to be unprofitable, right? Right. Right.

Well, that sounds like beginnings of a fix to me. I'm going to say it's time to fix this and move us into that mode. So, all right. So we're going to stay true to the mission. Kadira, you said it so perfectly. Ben and Jerry's was acquired for a reason. What's the reason? There's a mission behind it.

Let's not throw it out. like I was suggesting earlier, let's, let's dig into it, maybe even double down on it. But we've got to grow past maybe the original founders' visions again to tie-dye guys from Vermont. You may not have a global perspective on things. And then you, but the mission that, you know, from the beginning is peace, peace, love and ice cream. That's a, you can broadly interpret that. So it's, you know, you can do that any, execute that any number of ways. and you can't really go wrong.

Have a great comms plan because of Jerry, maybe Ben someday, is going to sit from the outside and, you know, try to kneecap the company or be vocal critics. You have to know what you stand for and stay true to it as a company and how to diffuse any negative founder energy out there. Watch for Jerry, maybe Ben, coming back and getting some dollars behind them and making a run for the company. Maybe what's for Jerry starting his own thing, whatever it is, ice cream or ice cream adjacent or something else.

But he's not going to go quietly into the good night. He's going to be out there. And bring your team in and not only your team and your company, but you have a potential opportunity to use Unilever. You know, use Ben and Jerry as the driver for your family of companies and say, look, let's emanate this out from within. Ben and Jerry is going to kick off something. It's going to go, we have to go beyond awareness. Everyone knows about the things, the diseases and things that are out there. But we're going to actually use it to put our voices behind it and our dollars behind it and commit to one cause at a time or one overarching cause at a time, maybe one per month campaign driven across the Unilever family of brands.

Ben and Jerry is going to be our crown jewel for that. and we're fully committed, and we're going to sell a bunch of ice cream. Kadeira, did we fix it? Yes, I think this is totally fixable. You know, again, we have seen where, you know, again, mission-led companies, they're quiet, the founder stays on, and then there's, you know, a split. I think when it's successful and the fixes that we've outlined here, you know, really it's about courage.

You've got to be, let's lean into the moment. let's have some strategic clarity, right? Like, again, figure out how you're going to operationalize the mission. Again, we talk so much about communication, yes, so be transparent. I think having boundaries, right? Having boundaries, again, that we can call it boundaries, call it a framework, whatever you want to call it, just to talk about, again, this is who we've been, who we are today. Here's what we're going to stand for going forward is really, really important so that your

customers and other stakeholders have that clarity. and then just long-term commitment to values with the understanding that there will be some adaptation that we're going to be flexible, again, based on how the world is evolving, as quickly as it's evolving. Again, your customers and stakeholders expect that. And so, yes, I think this is totally fixable. I think that we fixed it. Okay, go us. What do you say, Melissa?

I'm in agreement with Kadira, and I just want to be. want to follow up with some, you know, saying, like, the story of Ben and Jerry's is still being written, right? But there is a lesson in it for all of us as leaders, entrepreneurs, founders, consumers. It's that values are a living thing. And Kadeer, you talked about that evolves over time. They can't be acquired in a merger and then just locked in the vault, right? They have to be nurtured, operationalized, and defended every single day. And I think that's the thing that we need to focus on, or Ben and Jerry's needs to focus on. A founder's departure, especially a messy one, is not unique to Ben and Jerry's, but it is a profound test. It's also

an opportunity. It's an opportunity for Unilever to prove that its sole wasn't just rented from the founders and that they've woven it into the fabric of the operations. And, and, And, you know, I think for Ben and Jerry's, the true test won't be if they can still sell fish food or, you know, New York Fudge or whatever. But if they can prove to their customers that what they started with, that spoonful of activism in every pint is still important and as potent as ever. So I think that, you know, like getting deeper down into your roots is really going to be important. But also being able to scale that because they're not. the little Ben & Jerry's from Vermont anymore. Totally agreed.

Great stuff both of you. Melissa, before we wrap up, favorite ice cream flavor, Bennerneries or otherwise? I have to say it's a non-benigeries, but it's strawberry. They don't make strawberry? Probably have a strawberry. They probably have a strawberry,

but it probably has stuff in it. cheese or something. Like I don't. Yeah, like a strawberry purist. I'm a purist. So I'm a strawberry hoggins. But I do love, I do love, I mentioned it before the tonight though. Right.

Kedar. I like that. I like that. Look, I will say, I love what Ben and Jerry's has stood for. So if you, you know, I do like texture and all the crunchy things that they put in their ice cream. So if it's chocolate, pretty much I'll try it. But I also am more of a flavor person. And so I am mint chocolate chip all the way. Just if you put that in front of me as well, fine. I'm sold. In my house, we call that toothpaste ice cream. Because it's minty. It belongs in your chip.

I love mint chocolate. I love it. I'm not that. It is a big audience for it. I'm not the one for it. But have you had a chubby hubby? It's the one with the peanut butter. It's malt and peanut butter pretzels and that's so good stuff. Yeah. I just sold some Ben and Jerry's right. Is that Ben and Jerry's? It's a Ben and Jerry's flavor.

Yeah. I would try that because my husband's a pure Ben and Jerry's guy. So we. Chubby hubby. We have three of those and he loves like the Reese's cups, all the stuff. So I have to go look for that. I haven't seen that flavor. I'm kind of,

I kind of get stuck in my flavor profile with Benagers. I kind of always describe the same ones. Yep. Well, that's going to do it for this episode. I think we sprinkled in some good fixes. Melissa, Kadira, thanks for putting up with me pressure testing the ideas. And sorry for all the ice cream puns. It couldn't be helped.

For all you out there, if I missed any obvious ice cream puns, go ahead and throw them on social. and tagged We Fixed It Pod, and we also love listener suggestions in hearing from all you fixaholics out there. If there's a company we haven't gotten to yet, let us know too. Again, we're on social at We Fix It Pod, including YouTube. We just had our biggest episode there ever. If you have a specific question, you can connect with any of us at We FixedItPod.com. And we need you to keep us in the top 10, so be sure to like, subscribe,

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