We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Fixing Katy Perry's Brand

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

In this episode of "We Fixed It, You're Welcome," the hosts tackle the brand challenges facing pop star Katy Perry. They analyze her career trajectory, from early success to recent struggles with album sales and tour ticket sales.  The discussion covers Perry's musical evolution, cultural relevance, and commercial decline, highlighting missteps like collaborating with controversial producer Dr. Luke. The hosts propose strategies for Perry to reconnect with her audience, including embracing authenticity, reassessing her team, and potentially pivoting to more intimate performances.  They emphasize the importance of self-awareness and adapting to changing market conditions in the music industry. The episode concludes with optimism about Perry's potential for a comeback if she redefines her artistic vision and engages more genuinely with her fanbase. Disclaimer: A quick disclaimer. We are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice or anything that would get us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions everyone's thinking. Have an engaging conversation and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you're welcome. All trademarks, IP and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. All right, here's how this works. In each episode, we pick a company we all know that has something going on right now. Then we put ourselves in charge and see if we can fix it. You'll be hearing from Melissa and Operations, Chino on people in culture, and me on marketing. My name's Aaron. As always, a quick disclaimer, we are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. These are

our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions everyone's thinking, have an engaging conversation and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you're welcome. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners. Welcome back to We Fixed It, You're Welcome. We Are, of course, your fearless fixers, Chino, Melissa, and me, Aaron. You know, when you become a fearless fixer, you work hard, and all the companies you fixed don't always thank you, at least not publicly. But as hard as it is to be a fearless fixer, there are perks too. Like wherever you're a fearless fixer, you're a Like wherever we show up, we get the VIP treatment.

We get trade past hors d'oeuvres that show up out of nowhere. We get to hobnob with society's elite. It's a pretty good line of work. Now, we've fixed a lot of companies so far, and we're not stopping that anytime soon. But ultra-famous people become brands, too, and we haven't turned our spotlight on one of those yet. So let's do that today. This individual is a well-known public figure with a reported net worth of around 350 to 400 million, which a lot of companies would love to have.

That's right. We're talking about Katie Perry. Melissa, any early memories of Katie Perry when you first became aware of her? Probably around 2008. Yes, a favorite in our household, a lot of singing going on. I kissed a girl was a favorite by my four-year-old daughter at preschool, and the teacher wanted to talk to us about how she was singing that all the time. But yeah, I mean, she has always kind of been somebody at the forefront of like pushing pop music and culture.

So I've always, you know, and kind of always beating to her own drum and doing things her own way. So I think in a lot of worlds, it seemed like girl empowerment, really a powerful voice that she had and a platform that she had. How about you, Chena? Well, I've definitely been to her concert back in the early 2000 aughts. I am, you know, someone that loves a good video. And I remember her when she was dating the lead singer of the gym class heroes and her being the, the star of that video and then her turning and, you know, becoming a mega pop star with I kissed a girl. And yeah, like I really did like her at the time. I think, you know, since then,

which is probably about around 15 years, you know, don't listen to her as much. She's not on like the top featured artist, but I do remember when she came up and like what she stood for. And I remember all of my girlfriends really liking Katie Perry at the time. So it's just been interesting just to see kind of that switch. Yeah, definitely. Well, and let's get into it. Katie Perry didn't just arrive on the scene. We can say that she crash landed in pop culture like a glitter bomb, but not at first. Katie Perry's real name is Kate Hudson or Katie Hudson. She released a gospel debut album in 2001 for Red Hill Records. It sold between 100 and 200 copies total. So probably didn't get in at that stage, right? Because the label went bankrupt. But what she did between 2001 and 2008 is her business.

2008, June 17th, she released her career reboot of an album called Just One of the Boys, which you mentioned. The lead single, I Kissed a Girl, which you mentioned, was provocative. Definitely not a gospel song. It went to number one on Billboard Hot 100, stayed there for seven weeks. That song was massive. From there, she became a chart dominating machine. Teenage Dream was released in 2010 and tied Michael Jackson's record with five number one singles from the same album. She performed at the Super Bowl halftime show in 2015 with literal dancing sharks.

And around that time, she joined what we call that rarefied class of pop superstardom. But record scratch in the past few years, something seems to have shifted in the public's perception of her. Her 2017 album Witness was panned by Pitchfork as cringy and out of touch. Her 2020 album Smile did not chart the way the previous albums did, debuting at number five on the billboard chart with a relatively soft album sales. By contrast, her Las Vegas residency was commercially successful. It ran from December 2021 to November 2023, and it grossed $46.4 million over 80 performances,

although some fans complained that it was more flashed than substance. Somewhere in there, she was a judge on American Idol for seven seasons, cut to September 20th, 2024. Her latest album to date called 143 was released, and the world seemed to give a collective shrug, calling it her worst to date. USA Today said it was mindless and uninspired, which is a pretty tough critique coming from USA Today, And there was that whole blue origin space tourism stunt and her current tour, which is definitely not air, as we're going to call it, Lifetimes. It's facing unsold seats of up to 70% in some venues, yikes. Yet, she sold her catalog for reported $225 million in 2023.

And like I said, she's sitting on an estimated net worth of $350 to $400 million. So let's address what we'll call the Katie Perry Paradox, someone who is a brand, someone who is wildly wealthy, beyond famous, but also now. seemingly disconnected from the culture that put her there. And as an artist, as a brand, what do you do when you've been so successful by all accounts for so long? But then you're seemingly out of sync with what got you there and what the public wants from you. Chino, I know that's a lot to unpack, but I'm guessing you're going to have some opinions here. I do. I do. And I want to start off by saying is, you know, with Katie Perry, this is not, you know, woman to woman. She has done an incredible job throughout her career. Like that time between,

in 2001 and 2008, she was hustling. She was out there putting out her music and trying to make a scene. She was, you know, in background videos for a lot of things. And again, I remember when she came out with I Kissed a Girl, again, absolutely blew up. And for me at the time where, you know, that was my music. That was like my time that I was coming, you know, coming of age. And, you know, having someone that was, you know, full on. all about women empowerment before it became a thing was huge.

And it was someone, you know, Katie was someone that I could look to and say, wow, not only is she a pop star, you know, seeing her in person incredibly talented, like her voice actually blew me away. I remember thinking she's not just a pop star. There's so much more behind this. And I do want to just acknowledge all of that first because I think it's really easy to just, you know, point a finger at somebody. and I think, you know, never want to bash another woman.

But I think looking at this from a lens of maybe some of the recent moves that she's made from a PR perspective kind of goes against where she came from. And I'd love to dive into that. Yeah. I think her Katie Perry's decline stems from really ultimately brand misalignment. Right. She's caught between chasing what are, you know, trends in the music industry and reverting. and reverting to kind of an outdated formula and is really kind of losing that sense of authenticity, which, you know, you're talking about, like, that's who she really was all about.

And so you're seeing that in her weakened results in terms of her commercial performances and how she's bringing that money. And the fan base just doesn't really see her as essential anymore. So I really feel like it comes down to kind of three things for her. there's this musical identity crisis. Like if you're talking about the base of what she's all about, is that her sound doesn't, hasn't grown with her as much as some of the other artists, right? Like so Taylor Swift, for example, you're going to hear all about me talking about Taylor

because I'm a Swifty. But so kind of her shifting, you know, and her, as you saw in her errors to her, and as you have seen album to album. And then like Beyonce, with her conceptual, I mean, she's just. a masterclass at that, right? And so Katie's work feels less, it feels less than and feels less out there and visionary, right? It feels like she's kind of reacting to what everybody else is doing. And then cultural relevance is really important. And I think that Blue Origin, it's not that that was a bad thing to go on, but it was tone deaf kind of, kind of her reaction and

commentary and her actions. So her behaviors, just felt like she didn't really, she wasn't really connecting with what the real world was going through at that time. But you know what? She earned, you know, she should, if she goes, she goes, it's, you know, it's one of those weird things about the cancel culture we have right now because they cancel everything. And so, unfortunately, she's in that category and bucket right now. And so really, again, kind of emphasizes that disconnect with her own audience, right, when she does something like that. And then people immediately react in a very negative way.

And the last thing, which is really, I think, from a business perspective, which we can talk about a lot more, is just her commercial decline, right? So she's had these opportunities, right? Her face is everywhere. So she's on American Idol. She had this residency that was really popular. But she also sold her catalog, right? And why did she do that?

It's a financial decision, right? And right now, as she's going through a decline, it's probably smart that she sold it when she did because it's not worth as much anymore, right? Because she's not as relevant. And so really, what she needs to do is figure out what she needs to do to get back in the driver's seat, as well as to start that rocket ship for her moving forward. So I think there's a lot of things for us to unpack today. Yeah, I think it's interesting you said that because it's almost like buying stock in an artist or a company, right? When you do back catalog purchase like that, for what she sold it for is 45 million per album, you know, is she worth that now?

Right, right. You know, I think that, and she's also taken on a big financial risk. So I have insider knowledge about how the touring world works. It's where my daughter it works. And she said this is not just a Katie Perry issue. It's an issue with a lot of artists today, is that they all view the success of the Erez tour and the stadium tours that Taylor did. and they think that they view themselves as peers to her, which they are, right? But they view that they can be able to do the same thing. And they're not able to and they're not able to sell out those stadiums. So, Aaron, you brought up the statistic like maybe 70% of the tickets not going.

You know, we saw, for example, Jennifer Lopez going out on tour as well and then having to ultimately cancel her tour. That begs to question that self-awareness and who is giving them advice. Like, is their agent really looking at what the analytics tell you? Because the places like where my daughter works, Live Nation, they have the analytics. They'll tell you. They'll tell the artist and the agent, right? You know, like, you're not going to sell that venue out.

Right. And so do you really want to do that? Or would you prefer going into a venue that you could sell out and then start this whole kind of fervor to maybe have an extra night and then get more tickets, right? You know, that kind of thing is really kind of. It's a business. And so she's not, I don't know who is directing her or if she's pushing that narrative that, like, I should have as big of our arena tours as Beyonce. It's like, well, you know, at this time, Beyonce has got the Grammy winning records.

She's got, you know, she had the, her halftime show during whatever game that was was like the most seen thing, almost more than Kendrick's was at the Super Bowl, right? You know, that kind of thing. So again, I don't know if she understands where her commercial success is at and how she has to kind of rethink that whole process. I like what you're saying, Melissa, just a quick, quick point. Because if you're a company, you know, if you're a manufacturing company and you're about to go into mass production and then you put your product out and you sit on, you know, up to 70% of unsold inventory, you've got to switch tactics. You can't just keep doing what you're doing. Right. I would agree.

So I want to actually look at this in two different ways. Because I think there's one of like, you know, what is the decline and, you know, how can we fix that? And I don't see this as a Katie Perry issue herself. I see this otherwise because even the Cowboy Carter concert right now, Beyonce is having trouble selling tickets. Yeah, it's not. Beyonce, right? And so is this a Katie Perry thing? Is it a market when we know that a lot of people are worried about an upcoming recession?

ticket prices, you know, 10 years ago, you can go and see, like, that Katie Perry concert I went to, I think it was like $65, $80. Not bad. I can do that. Today, if I'm, you know, getting something on Ticketmaster, $300 for one artist. Am I going to be spending that? No, I'm not. So I think there's a lot of other factors there that it's not necessarily a Katie Perry issue. I think, you know, timing is everything, as everyone says. And I just think it's really hard for an artist right now to be selling tickets at these extraordinary prices because we're all jumping into a recession. So everybody's saving their coins and this disposable income, we don't have it. Where if you think about Taylor Swift, for example, and her audience, again, not a Smithy, sorry out there, literally walk out of a, I walk out of a store for music is on because I actually

feel different, Melissa, and I don't feel like her music. I loved her when she first came out. I never felt that there was that change in her music in terms of what she was talking about. I felt like she kind of stayed stagnant where Katie Perry talked about like real life issues that at the time when I'm coming of age,

I could relate to versus like baking cookies with my mom. I know you're not baking cookies with your mom. You're dating John Mayor. Let's talk about that, you know? And I think over time, obviously, her music has changed. but Taylor Swift's audience and her demographic are younger. They're not me who's going out and paying for this. It's, hey, parents, can I, you know, borrow $300 and this is like my big one gift? And I think there's also that piece, too, about the demographic that Taylor Swift has versus Katie Perry.

So there's that. So there's economic factors we can get into. But switching gears to the second part, her fatal flaw as someone who started off as women empowerment before it was. cool as being different to having a voice, being the different pop star where you didn't always necessarily need to be sexualized. When she collaborated with Dr. Luke, who has known and is, you know, allegedly was abusing Kesha, who was coming up at the same time, I've also been to Kesha's concert, by partnering with him now in a world where there's Me Too, you're trying to talk, the album is even about female empowerment. Like literally, I think that.

That is what the description is of this album. To partner with Dr. Luke absolutely missed completely the mark. There's a thousand producers here. And to make that choice going against, you know, again, another artist who's coming up at the same time where if you're all about women empowerment, I'm standing with Kesha as well and not working with somebody who has all of these allegations. and then telling, you know, turning around and telling your audience, well, no, I care about women. I care about women. Well, you don't care about Kesha. So guess what?

Me now as a fan, I'm looking at you differently. Has all of this been fake? That's what I'm asking. Because for me, there's a bit of integrity that needs to happen. And you completely lost that. And so in a second, she lost her kind of cultural relevance and currency because she didn't have that integrity to not work with him. And in that moment, that was her fatal, like you can watch it. Like the second she released that album, completely skyrocketed down.

And since then, it's been in tone deaf, all for tone deaf after tone deaf, you know, situation. And it's, you know, she's scraping the bottom of the barrel. And it's like, I want to shake her and say, Katie, as someone who used to love you, stop. Like, figure out who you are and what you stand for and then do something because all of your actions are. completely against what you're saying. And it's, again, walking the walk is what she needs to be doing right now. And all she's doing is like singing the sing and it's not working. Well, I think you also bring up a really good point because, again, you know, Katie Perry as a brand is a machine. Right. It's like there's a lot that goes into it. But she ultimately, it's her name and it's who she is.

And it's identified with her. You know, it's her. So I feel that you're a lot. 100% correct, Chino. I'm glad you brought that up. That was something in my notes as well. Is that like when was that kind of tipping point? But I do think over the course of that time, the recovery has not, there's not been a recovery ever. So like, who is she using for PR? Like, are they not like, or is she not have somebody? I mean, like, they should be fired. I'm just saying, like, if that was happening, Aaron to your brand, you would be like pivoting immediately and you would be like, oh my gosh, what are we doing? But you bring up some really good points, Chino, like her audience has gotten older. And so, you know, and her music or, you know, the entire brand,

it hasn't adjusted to that by, you know, pulling in a younger group of, of, you know, music listeners and music lovers to what she's all about. And it's almost the kind of thing that, like, is interesting because I think that for some people who like watch American Idol maybe they'd be like like who is she what did she do you know what I mean and even though I mean and when you think about like how she's from a business perspective there happen some smart moves like selling her catalog also the residency in Las Vegas I think is a good idea you're you don't have to deal with all the touring and all of those kinds of things but to your point you know I think you were the one who said this or maybe Aaron that it's a didn't go totally smoothly. It wasn't like Adele's, well, Dells didn't go smoothly either, but, you know, somebody who's been there and then there immediately people are like, or Lady Gaga, you know, I want you back. We want you back. We want to try to do something like that. So I really feel like, I feel like the people surrounding her are not giving her the truth or something like that. So it's making her think that she's okay to kind of do these things and not have it.

cancel her out. Years ago, it's not that way anymore with the high ticket and high visibility, Vegas residences, but that used to be a signal that we're going to, I'm going to switch into legacy mode, right? This is the next phase of my career and you're going to know me for what you know me for. And that's about it. And that's not the case because she keeps putting out, if she's a company or a brand or a business, she's putting out new product. But the audience that liked her old product is saying we don't like this now. Right. Yeah. So it's interesting. So I'm going to say something a little controversial. Sorry, Beehive. And again, love Beyonce. I've been too many of her concerts, but I'll say that. So Beyonce's team versus Katie Perry's team, I think is really interesting

to kind of compare the two because Beyonce is a billionaire. She is living a life that the average person, like we can't imagine, right? But somehow she's able to connect with culturally relevant thing. Do you think Beyonce is the one that is coming up with these things? absolutely not. She has the team of the best of the best in the world who is saying, hey, Beyonce, there was this, like her new collaboration with Levi's, the Cowboy Carter, all of these things that are happening. Again, it's relevant to, you know, her brand and the brand that she's projecting. She has a team of researchers that are saying, what is culturally relevant? And I was also saying, hey, I'm not claiming to be the owner of this. Or I'm going to

going to be the spokesperson of this. What I will do is sprinkle a little bit of that in my next project, right? And what she's done is created this kind of mystical sense of that she's, she's aware of things, but you know on her day to day, she's not, she's not doing this. It's like, it's Beyonce and Jay Z. They're totally in a different world. The same as Katie Perry. You're out of touch. You know, my partner always says it's like most artists have like a four album max before they kind of tap out in terms of the relevancy. Why? Because they've made all that money and it's really hard to connect with the everyday person when you're super rich and good for you. Like, be rich and do that. But like I think, well, she's the challenge with Katie Perry right now is she

has yes people around her. Right. She doesn't have the research where it's saying, okay, we did this bad collaboration. Oh, you know, there's a recession coming up. You know, you need to kind of be gaining favor from people and, you know, taking Blue Origin space trip at this time with what's already being smoked. Maybe not the best time. And again, some Bundy should be saying that, but it's clear that there's no one on her team to do that. And it's like, I would love her to take what she's dealing with similar to Beyonce. Like, yes, you're living this incredible life and, you know, give some something people to look to, but figure out a way to make it somewhat relatable. But right now, try to pretend to be the face of every woman and, you know, mom and empowerment and all of that, it's really hard to do when

you're Katie Pair and you're, you know, flying to space, you know, at the end of the day. Yeah, I really feel like it's, it's something that is kind of interesting because, like, you know, putting it, aligning and Aaron, like we were talking about, like, with a company or a corporation. It's not just about rebranding, right? Right. You have to redefine her product and find herself again, right? because really, you know, she's got all the signals are there. So she is revenue diverse.

You know, she had the catalog. She had the Vegas residency. She has endorsements, right? But everything is declining, right? And so that signal is there showing kind of like Katie Perry fatigue, brand fatigue. So the question isn't really about just relevance. It's also about sustainability. Like what are you going to do to sustain who you want to be?

And maybe, you know, that means a really. reinvention. Like that might mean, you know, we've seen this with, with, with a lot of different musical acts. Like, it means going into acting. It means going to Broadway. It means, you know, smaller, you know, thinking about, you know, because of her audience, you know, understanding who her audiences. Last night, for example, I went to go see Jack White, a huge White Stripes fan. Seen him like many times. I've seen Jack White, Ron Couture's, like all the bands, Dead Weather, all the bands, and then singing in this smaller venue was flippin'am amazing. And I thought it was interesting because he purposely started this tour in really small

places that we're selling out within a minute, right? Like, he could, he's, I've seen him in a stadium, right? Like, so he has that kind of, but it's an older crowd. And so, like, it was interesting. We went there with our kids and everybody and it was like an older crowd. We knew it was going to be. It was, you know, our age. But I think that, like, if she would think about, like, making it more intimate, like, an intimate tour with Katie, or maybe having it be a nostalgia-driven tour, right?

Like, so it's going to be, you know, the teenage dream tour, whatever it could be, right? You know, and it could be fun. And that's what, you know, you know, my daughter shares about, like, what's going on right now in the music industry is there are a lot of these kind of tours, like, where you see a tech. year anniversary of an album. And it's pulling and drawing the audiences, drawing the Melissa Chino's errands of the world back to the, you know, to the concert venue, whether it's a small one or a big one, because it means something to us, right? And there was that connection. And so I do feel like there's a way for her to kind of go about that and that a lot of bigger artists have also started to think about that, right? Justin Timberlake, others, you know, Jack White, all these

people who are like, you know what, I'm not going to do the big arena tour. I'm going to do something that's more meaningful. And then like he brought on the opening band was from Denver. You know what I mean? And, you know, he's going to these smaller places that that's where he started. Right. You know, that's what he started 20 years ago. He was in those smaller places and venues. And so I do think that there's, you know, something to be said about that. And then like, Aaron, the corporate parallels of like, how do you. you stop from just becoming a legacy act, you know, and clinging to that old model, like a offbuster or a gap or, right? You know what I mean? Sure. How do you, you know, subway, Chino, you know, like, you know, how do we, how do we get back to, you know, how do we keep our roots,

but also keep growing in a way that is relevant to a new audience? If that's what she cares about, right? I don't, I, you know, I mean, she has a family now. She has a lot of things going on. So, you know, Maybe for her, I don't know if the spark is still there, right? Like to do all the things because, you know, like touring is for her. And her daughter's not that old, right? You know, I'll like challenge you there because I think she's an artist and a creative. And like, you know, she's been grinding since 2001, right? This is not something that's needed.

She's been in this business. I would say even more than that too, right? Like just even have that to get to that point, even though it was a failure on paper, she still put something out that I don't have an album, right? And not that I know of. You do, Chino, you're a lot of surprises here. I am. But what I would say, too, is just, you know, I totally agree with you, Melissa, where she needs to figure out what it is that she wants next, right? And I think, again, not so much of, okay, this big selling of a arena, it's not working. We're all going into recession. Beyonce is having trouble. Bobby Schmertr, who, you know, rap, love him.

was only sold 10 tickets per place. They have to cancel the ticket. Cancel a full tour because of it, right? It's not a Katie Perry issue from the ticket sales there. There's something larger going on. But I agree with, you know, I live right near history, which is this venue in Toronto that's new owned by Drake. You know, Zed's dead.

He was like an EDM crowd. They're probably going to have to have another night opening because just so much popularity. And I think there's something to be said, especially in this market where people are counting their coins to have those intimate times and intimate concerts where people can go. And again, too, if I was an artist, right, Katie Perry did sell that stadium that I was at, you know, 10 years ago. And so if it were me and, you know, everyone's coming to see Chino, maybe it's an ego thing where it's hard to kind of let go of, okay, it's not a stadium.

But I would rather sell out a smaller venue and say, yeah, we sold it out. versus, you know, 70% of the seats are not, you know, have not been sold. And I think maybe looking it from there, and there's so many things there, and I'm not going to bash. Katie, for what she wants, I just think she needs to sit, fire her entire team, figure out what she is and own it and say, listen, guys, it's been a rough year. You watch me fumble. And owning that, I think, would be so helpful versus trying to move swiftly to the next thing that doesn't land. And that's, I think, her challenge here. And I think she needs to take a little beat and just figure out what it is,

acknowledge where she's going for, and say, okay, what's next for me? And maybe you don't want to be a legacy yet. Go for it, Katie. I will still, you know, if it lands in the music is great, I'll listen. I'll listen to good music when it's good music. But she hasn't taken that time and she's just been like moving from thing to thing. And we can all see that. That frantic behavior is not something I'm looking to buy.

period. Feel authentic. And I think you bring up a really huge thing with artists. And you know, you have to have an ego to be able to put up with the amount of rejection you get in that kind of creative field because it's, that's the, that's the nature of the beast. So that is one of the things that I've heard in that arena, you know, when we think about ego drives the desire to have like these big stadium tours, right? Versus like understanding and having the self-awareness and having the right team around

you to say, you know what? We get it. We get it that you want to do that. But right now, the economic climate is even the top people are not selling out. And it's because, not because people don't want to go to a Beyonce show. Trust me, they do. It's because they want to know, like, if I spend $250 on a ticket, am I going to still have a job in two weeks? And I have to pay rent and I have to pay for groceries and things like that.

And that will seem like an excessive type of thing. So I do agree. I totally agree with what you're saying. And I think that from a business perspective, there's this idea that with the ego comes like this inability to see the truth and see the signal. like Aaron, we were just talking about the signal of like your business declining, your audiences, you know, the share not showing up. And so I do really feel, you know, I, I do put some of it on her, obviously, because that's who she is and she's representing herself. But, like, I do feel like her team is not being honest with her. Like, if they're allowing her to go do

these things. Because I think that, like, coming out of the residency, which is in a smaller venue, and then going straight to the, you know, like, were her record, album sales of witness like so big, large that it was indicative that that should happen. I doubt it. I don't think that anyone would have told them, including Lagnation was not telling her that, right? Like, they were not saying that's a good plan, right? And there are there are operational, you know, protocols on how they can do that and test the waters, right? So I know that with another, another band, They only put out, because the band was going on a reunion tour thing, and they were like, you know, you haven't sold out for 20 years. So let's just get real. But it's a reunion tour. It's a, you know, your album from 20 years ago, you know, you'll go to Toronto. You know, maybe you'll go to Chino's neighborhood and sell out that. Right. But let's just put up a very few. So it feels like a viral auction, you know, gamify it. Right. And so they only posted like eight dates. And they all sold out in 10 minutes.

Yeah, I think that's part of the problem is the been the accessibility. You know, when you're on American Idol and you're that familiar to audiences and you're that available, and then the residency brings you down to earth, then you go to try to do these giant stadium tours off the back of what we might call compromise product with Dr. Luke's involvement or weak product. I listen to it. It's, you know, in the background, it's fine. But does it demand your full attention? It's not that great. And you want to use that as your push to get people to fill seats.

and stadiums at these elevated ticket prices we've seen post-COVID. I think there's just a lot of factors working against her. Yeah. And I think, you know, again, if you look at even just timeline and market and when concerts were there and when people were willing to pay the money, right? Like I think of like, Watch the Throne, Jay Z and Kanye West and Beyonce and Jay Z with like crazy in love that tour. And like there was a whole run of things.

And again, we know that this is how artists make their music, right? It's not on Spotify playlist. They get paid pennies unless you're huge. So this is the driver to do that. But again, the market isn't calling for this right now. And I think for Katie Perry and others, right, like the time between 2001 to 2008,

her ego is probably what drove her to be successful. And so I do think there's something to be said. You know, Beyonce, again, I'm not a big Beyonce. I keep bringing her up. But Beyonce, other artists have continued to say, like, you know, I was told no. like Kim Kardashian, you know, there's a quote where she was talking to her publicist who told her, you know, you'll never be on the cover of Vogue.

And she said, watch me. And I do think there's something to be said for that in Katie Perry. Go ahead and do that when the market makes sense. Right now the market is not making sense to do that. And by you, you know, making a horrible decision to collaborate with Dr. Luke, you know, going and selling these, like, you know, massive pricing for like not a great problem. As you said, Erin, like, no, the album was not great. I will be, we can say that.

You know, critics have said that. And so, you know, when it's a weekend product, weekend brand acknowledgement, and then you're doing stunts, like going to space in a time where people are struggling to eat. And you're trying to be the voice for women. And like, you're trying to be relatable when it's absolutely not relatable. Make it make sense. And it doesn't. And so I, you know, I do believe in an ego.

sometimes to help you push through things, but you need to also look at the reality here. And right now is not the time. And what Katie Perry needs to do is stop, rethink about what she wants and where she wants to go. Because I don't necessarily think that she needs to be legacy right now. She doesn't want to. But she needs to get a better team around her to figure out what that will look like.

That is true to her. That's relatable to us. That will sell and go from there. But until she does that, all of this flopping around is not doing her any good. And it's actually going to make it a thousand times harder if she doesn't take that pause. Wow. I want, Aaron, I wanted to ask you one last thing about that. Chino brought up some really good points.

What do you think from a branding perspective or marketing perspective, do you think she's overexposed? Because, you know, when you were listing all the things, I was like, God, she's done a lot of these things, right? So she's, you know, and so is there a point where like it doesn't like it doesn't feel like worth it to spend $200 on a ticket because I can see her every week on American Idol or you know what I mean? Or, you know, what do you think? Do you think that that is actually a thing there or not? I think she's in a competing in a very crowded marketplace. You look at the summer's tour schedule. Everybody's on tour right now.

And they're there at these, like you said, these crazy ticket prices, especially. if you want the VIP access or floor level seats or, or anything where you can actually see the artist. I think it's a flooded market. You have to have a strong reason to draw people back out. We saw it with Jennifer Lopez tried to put out something new saying, this is my life and I'm going to live it out for you or whatever. And the audience said, no, we don't like it.

So she said, OK, I'm a legacy artist. I'm going to do my, you know, my hits for you. And people said, OK, maybe. But yeah, I think there's there's all those factors at play. And I, you know, I do think she's overexposed. Artists get pushed into these 360 deals now where they have to go do acting. She was smurfed in a movie and maybe she wanted to. I don't know.

But, you know, brand endorsements and other investments where she's the face of. Yeah, at a certain point, you have to maybe not retreat from the public eye and go live up on a hill, but you have to reassess and say, what, who am I? And then come back out and say, okay, here's, you know, I've redefined myself for you as an audience. But you have to, like, you know, Tino, you were saying, build good people around you. You can trust and bounce things off of them and get validation before you put it out to the world. But as an artist, you take risks too. You struggle and sometimes it works.

Sometimes it doesn't. So, yeah, she over-exposed, absolutely. Does she need time to figure out? Definitely. Yeah. Otherwise, she's going to go and make a country album and then go back to gospel. And will these things work? I don't know.

Maybe they will. But if she gets clarity as a brand, as a company, as an artist and, you know, aligns herself with the right people, I think. I got to work out a lot better for her. Agreed. But I'll turn it back to you, Melissa. So Katie Perry, she, artist brand entity, made some questionable, if not bad decisions in the public, stumbling from a financial perspective, even though underneath still very

wealthy, rarefied air. Where does she go from here? Did we fix it? Did we create a good roadmap? I don't know that we fixed it, but I think that we identify. the specifically the areas that she needs to go to fix it. And those really, because her brand and who she is is not dead. It's just mismanaged to tell you the truth. I think she can rebound it from this. I think she probably will rebound. I'm very helpful for her. She needs to define a clear, mature, artistic

strategy and vision, I think. I think that's what we want to see from her. There's got to be some re-engagement with her audience and her fan base and doing that through authenticity and ownership. And maybe like she's always seemed like she's kind of been a fun person. And so like use humor to talk about her missteps, right? You know, lean into those things that people expect from her and show them how smart you are, right? And I think an acceptance of that the business is changing is not just her.

the business is changing and that she should embrace those changes in a way that really kind of can help to continue to push her in the forefront and not have her kind of following behind, feeling like she's doing gimmicky things, you know, in order to get her face in front of everybody, which she doesn't need to. I really feel like if she pivots boldly and redefines the team around her and is willing to be more self-aware and to listen to the experts, she could really create a very, very long-term situation for herself that is very successful in all different manners. Totally agree.

Great points. Chino, did we put Brand Katie back on track? I think we did fix this. You know, Katie, if you're listening to this, as an OG fan, I am rooting for you. you've made some mistakes who hasn't in life. And I do think it's just a matter of pausing, figuring out who you are. And again, with what Melissa said about that authentic connection back to your base, right? Own it.

You're funny. You know, it could actually be that your team around you was telling you to make these decisions and you're saying no. And, you know, we don't have the visibility into any of that. But own your brand again. Be Katie Perry, the person who was 2001. 2008 had to push her way to that. You didn't just come up on the scene. There was a lot of work behind that. You know, understanding where the market is now is important, but I think the most important thing that you can do is remember what it is that you want. Is it legacy? Is it redefining? You can do

it. You've done it before. And I believe in you, but you can't just keep floundering. That's not going to be successful. And I think just a little pause, a little pause with a comedic comeback and, you know, acknowledgement of what happened. We'll work wonders. I like it. Katie, we are your fixing team. Call us. Well, that does it for another. We fixed it. You're welcome. Like Katie Perry, we are also on Spotify. We're not at her numbers yet, but we're catching up on downloads. And we're on Apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts. But you already do that because you're listening to us right now, you smart person. But there's at least one. person in your life who does not know about We Fixed It, you're welcome. So you're going to go out and

tell them about our show. Maybe they love Kitty Perry, maybe they love AI or Southwest Airlines or Starbucks or Canada or any of our past topics. So go spread the word. Get us to the very top of the charts, all the charts, and we will see you next time. This podcast is produced by straightforward media group, all rights reserved. If you'd like to learn more about how a podcast can help your company establish authority and generate leads, please email us at Eric. at straightforwardmg.com or go to straightforwardmg.com for more information.