We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Fixing Subway's Identity Crisis

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

In this episode of "We Fixed It, You're Welcome," the hosts tackle the challenges facing Subway, the international sandwich chain. They explore Subway's recent identity crisis, including gimmicky limited-time offers and a shift away from its "eat fresh" image. The discussion covers Subway's history, franchisee concerns, and the need to reconnect with core customers. The hosts propose solutions such as doubling down on fresh ingredients, creating a secret menu, and improving marketing strategies. They emphasize the importance of consistency, customization, and educating customers about existing offerings. With the recent appointment of Greg Lyons as global chief marketing officer, the hosts express optimism about Subway's potential to revitalize its brand and appeal to a new generation of customers. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, here's how this works. In each episode, we pick a company we all know that has something going on right now. Then we put ourselves in charge and see if we can fix it. You'll be hearing from Melissa and Operations, Chino on people in culture, and me on marketing. My name's Aaron. As always, a quick disclaimer, we are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions everyone's thinking, have an engaging conversation, and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you're welcome.

All trademarks, IP, and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners. Welcome back to We Fix It, You're Welcome. This is episode 20. You know, some people collect snow globes, some people collect Pokemon cards. We collect companies one at a time. We see what we can do to fix them, and then we release them back into the wild. Today is no different. We've caught a big one for you.

We're taking on Subway. That's the international sandwich chain and not the metro system, which has its own challenges. So Subway, any stories or memories? Gino, you got something for us? Oh, man. Subway is near and dear to my heart. If anyone remembers their $5 footlong promos, I lived off of that for like a solid six months in the summer. Anytime I'd go to Montreal in Canada and like there was this huge festival and I would always like that would be I'd buy one foot long stuff.

for breakfast and that was like my lunch, dinner, everything. So it was really great. I'm someone that still gets the subway coupons and I clip them. Like I have them in my purse at all time. So I'm a subway lover personally. So that's my story. That's my subway story. I was just saying the same thing that I had a job where we went there. My team went there twice a week. And it was the same thing. We shared the footlongs. You know, if we were adventurous, we might get a cookie to, you know, all the things. And I think it's great because I think it was one of those where, you know, is kind of before the Chipotle, all the things where you make it yourself. And I love the ability to kind of customize because, you know, there's people that hate mayo.

There's people that don't. The bread, the meats, the cheeses, all the toppings. And I mean, I still, to this day, have my order memorized. And I, you know, and I'm with you, you know, it brings really actually very warm memories to me. So I haven't been there for a while though, but I, but it does bring very warm memories to me. I was going to the, the $5 foot longs hit at the right time. Yeah. You know, you're coming up in the world.

You can't necessarily splurge you all the time. You want some vegetables in your diet somewhere, right place, right time. said, you can use, eat half of it for one meal and then keep the other half for another meal. So it's really like the $5 foot long was like for all day, you know? I literally lived off of the $5 foot long. Every single look at it reminds me of Montreal because I would get it at the beginning of this festival. And that was my meal for the whole day. Yeah, if you have that kind of restraint to not eat an entire loaf of bread in one sitting,

you can make two meals out of it at least. I'll share that long before I became the fearless fixture of marketing. I myself was a sandwich artist for a short time. That's what they call the sandwich makers. They treated me fine. It was all pretty uneventful, and I can't say I have anything to draw from from that experience for today. So I'm going to turn to that always reliable internet research.

A subway was founded by Fred DeLuca in 1965. The funding came from his friend Peter Buck, and it was called Pete's Super Submarine Sandwiches. It's smart to name your business after the money guy. The first location was in Bridgeport, Connecticut. 1968, it was renamed Subway. In 1976, it became a franchise. Subway expanded to the West Coast in 1978, started opening stores inside of Walmarts in 2024.

No, that's not right. Well, I'll double-check my fact. But they started opening stores inside of Walmarts as a means of expansion. In 2010, Subway became the largest fast food chain in the world with over 33,000 stores, about 1,000 more than McDonald's had at the time. Along the way, somehow in their history, they made a really bad choice for a spokesman. They fast forward Bastat. They were purchased by a Rourke Capital in 2024 for around $9.6 billion.

And that's the same company that owns Duncan, Sonic, Arby's, Buffalo Wild Wings, and Baskin-Robbins in their portfolio. Now, Subway's in about 98 countries. And recently, there have been some C-suite shake-ups, some gripes from franchisees about decisions that are being made at the corporate level, and also a planned, pretty robust expansion through China. Sounds aggressive. So we can talk about all that, which we probably will, or we can talk about why Subway is all of a sudden behaving like a fast food company, like a fast, fast food company after at least playing the part of a healthier option for so many years. This started back in January of 2024 with the launch of what Subway called an irresistible

collection of footlong cookies, churros, and pretzels that were designed to pair with your footlong sandwich. These were branded partnerships. So you had a synobon footlong churro and Auntie Ann's footlong pretzel and Subway's own cookies stretched out into an unbathable footlong length. This was followed up in June, 2024 by footlong dippers, which were three varieties of these flat bread roll-ups with dipping sauces. And then on April 3rd of 2025, Subway seemed to say, screw it. People will eat just about anything. And they introduced a footlong tray of Doritos-based nachos for $5. So Melissa, what's going on?

Well, I wanted to first kind of take a step back and talk. I mean, thank you for that historical perspective about Subway. And like I said, it's one of those things that I think is near and dear to all of our hearts and our experiences. But I want to talk about what do the customers really want from Subway? And then where, like to your point, Aaron, they've kind of veered in these really kind of, it seems like random direction. but it's trying to stay true to the footlong, but is that really? So I would say that there are

a few things that customers have wanted from Subway and have always felt like are the core tenants of Subway, which is, first it was a health conscious customization. I mentioned that, the original promise, what they want, fresh, high quality ingredients, transparency, no mystery, right? Like you're watching them make what they're making for you. And so, and control, like personal control. It's personalized. The reality check is Subway's Eat Fresh image got eroded due to processed meats, sugary bread, and their scandals. Yogurt was deemed too sugary to be healthy, for example. And customers now prefer, like, in their mind, a brand, like a sweet green kava, even Chipotle, where their perceived freshness, even though it's very similar to the sandwich line of Subway.

even a Jimmy John's, you know, you know, fast subs, all the different places. The other thing is, you know, affordability and value, what they want, reliable meals, especially with inflation, squeezing budgets. The reality, like the subway footlong promo was iconic, but shrinking, shrinkflation, we've all seen it. They've all done, you know, smaller portions. And then all of a sudden, the footlong, our footlong plus are premium. subs. This frustrates customers and competitors like McDonald's Taco Bell are able to kind of continue

to focus on a value menu and a value deal. And so there's a price perspective that the customers are feeling a little pinch from subway. And then convenience and speed, obviously everybody's in that, you know, immediate gratification mode as a consumer. So what they want, fast accurate orders. Subway's assembly line model is slower than some of the pre-made options that you get at other places like Panera. I think drive-through expansion might help, but all of these like limited time offer deals, like the nachos, this just complicates operations, right? And then from this is the new, I feel like this is the new battlefield that they're going into, Subway is going into, which is the craveable indulgence. like kind of the viral thing that they're trying to get to, which is they want, you know, people want cheat meals, they do.

But do they really go to Subway for a cheat meal? Probably not. That's not the first place I'm thinking. I'm thinking, I am thinking Sinobot, right? You know, like that's like four Big Macs in it or something like that. So Subways attempt to do that might tap into this, but it doesn't feel, it feels gimmicky. It doesn't feel authentic to what Subway is really all about. So I think it's kind of like a missed opportunity because they don't also have now that the, you know, the footlong sub sub is kind of gone, you know, that iconic view and value of that has kind of gone away.

That's kind of that missed opportunity where they don't have like that signature thing, right? A signature item like Chick-fil-A sandwich or a Big Mac or something like that. they need to have kind of that signature identity. But, you know, I think that to your point and your, Erin, you brought this up, customers don't want identity whiplash, which is what they're kind of getting with Subway, inconsistent quality, because these are franchises. And when you throw in these limited time offers, you're expecting that franchise owner to be able to bring to you a cinema on footlong.

We're having difficulty just keeping a, up with the bread order, right? Like what, now I have to make a Cinebond? Like, what are you talking about? And then you overcomplicate the menu. And so you go in there and like all of a sudden there's all this other, you know, bells and whistles. And that's like not what you go in there for. You know, you go in there for my footlong so I can take it to the festival and be done. Yeah. So I really think that this is a discussion about, you know, their identity and whether they really, you know, and we'll talk about it from a business perspective, but is it really bringing more customers to Subway or is it turning away customers?

So that's why I wanted to kind of focus on what customers, their customer base really wants and whether they're not doing a good enough job just with those customer base. Because, I mean, to me, it's remarkable, Aaron, the stats we brought up about them being in more, you know, more franchises than anyone else, they should be killing it. And instead, it looks like they're looking for something that, you know, the brass ring to help them get to the finish line.

And, you know, they're in every airport now. They're, you know, they're everywhere. Gas stations. Yeah. You know, they're everywhere. Yet it doesn't feel like I think they're having an identity crisis, to be honest. Well, to your point, Melissa, I'll correct it. They went into Walmart in 2004.

as a means of expansion. To your point, the limited time offer LTO is kind of the lifeblood of the fast food industry. It's a way to say signal to consumers, hey, we've got something new, come check us out, whether it's a mix and match of existing ingredients or doing something that you wouldn't even think about. You know, we put chocolate sauce on that, you know, but these limited time get them while they're here, you haven't seen a lot of innovation from Subway, at least something that's stuck since that $5 foot long that we all remember. So is it, you know, is it fair game to say, you know, we own every aspect of our brand. One aspect is we sell things that are a foot long.

Let's just give people things that are a foot long and see if they buy it. You know, I think that's worth seeing some of that testing happening. And I'm not saying it's particularly innovative. It's kind of following a Taco Bell style format of appealing, you know, we did something crazy, come check it out. But can you fault them for it when sales have been down up until, you know, in the past few years? No, but I think that when you think about limited time offers, what you want is something that sticks. So think about Starbucks, okay, Pump and Spice Latte, which I've never even had one,

but like, you know, like people are counting the days down. You know, we've talked, we talked about this for McDonald's. They're the green shake, you know, you know, at, you know, in March. So like there are things that like could become what you're known for. So maybe then rebranding to your point, Aaron, needs to be more innovative and less of like throw spaghetti at the walls. Right. Like let's just make everything a foot long because then every people will come. But that doesn't, I don't know. Tino, I mean, what do you think from a culture perspective?

I mean, that doesn't feel like. I have so much to say. So I. Yeah, wait. We'll call myself a subway. You know, as I was sitting here thinking about like my experience with subway, I will call myself a subway connoisseur. And I'm going to say something before I get into like my bit. But, you know, in Canada, we have the Canadian exhibition once a year in the end of the summer.

And there's all these food vendors where you can eat like, you know, chocolate covered crickets and fried mars bars and like the craziest food you can imagine. And I remember as a kid, like this is a type of suburb. type of person I am. I can't believe I'm calling myself out, but I would get so overwhelmed that I would always just go to subway. I was like, there's just so many options. I'm just going to play it safe and go to subway. And so I'm speaking as a lover of subway and like I'll say probably every other week, I do have a sub. So this is the context that I'm coming from. And it's really interesting if you go back into the history of subway, right? So when they first came on the scene, it was, you know, the fresh option. And if you remember at that time, you know, you had movies like Super Size Me

who were really demonizing things like McDonald's and the Taco Bells and just sharing how horrible it was. And so at the time, people were looking for those alternative, fresh, healthier options, right? Again, horrible spokesperson in hindsight, but, you know, when you're seeing someone lose a massive amount of weight in a time where being, yeah, being skinny was in, kind of coming back a little bit more. People were like, okay, well, I need fast food, right? I need something quickly. I need something fairly cheap. Instead of going to McDonald's, I'm going to subway. And what the sell for subway has still always been the sale to your point, Melissa and Aaron is the fact that you can customize what you're ordering, right? I'll have my subway order

down pat. It's been pretty much the same for my entire life. And that's why people go. And so I think, you know, expanding to China is incredible because you're looking at a different market and being able to use kind of and say, hey, the whole world likes to customize their things. Why not be able to do this elsewhere, right, versus just having your stock standard Panera thing. Like, I've never been to Panera because, again, I'm a subway loyalist. And then obviously, we had the $5 foot long. That was in 2008, right? So that was actually quite some time ago, but it made It's such a splash, and it became what they were known for. And to be honest, it was only a few times a year that this promo would run during the summer,

but people would look forward to it. It's like the dollar drinks at McDonald's. Like, again, I don't really eat McDonald's. I'm a subway lover. But, you know, I'll definitely get that dollar iced coffee in the summer when it's there are those dollar drinks. And so it brought people there, bought a whole new customer base saying, wow, $5 footlongs are great. They realize similar to how Red Lobster is.

realizing now that, you know, endless shrimp is not the most profitable thing. Sure. Subway realized, you know, as much as it's bringing a whole base here, it's overwhelming our team, it's overwhelming our system, and it's actually not that great when it comes to an ROI standpoint. We're actually losing money with this. And so the sadness is they had to get rid of that, rest in peace, to the best promo of all fast food history chains. And so now you have this dilemma because. The challenge right now, if I were to walk into a subway, without my coupons that I literally have sitting right there that I might pull up in a second, it's about $25 to get two foot long, like veggie, basic subways or subs that are foot long.

And so where subways kind of dealing with that identity crisis is, okay, sure, we realize it's not the healthiest. Like we learned that they're bread, a lot of calories in there, et cetera, et cetera. It's still a healthier option than most. You know, yes, I'm still able to customize how I want to, and you can toast it, not toast it, half-toasted. You can do what you need. But the challenge is now, for me as a customer, if it's $26 for just your basic, like a veggie or a cold-cut sub, not even your big, crazy mixes with all the different types of meats, why wouldn't I go to the, you know, hand-cureated crafty? subway shop that's literally across the street for me and spend two extra dollars where I'd have more quality and more premium product in there. And so I think this is where subway is falling. And so

now you're seeing them trying to create these viral moments, which I do think, yes, there's a time and a place for this. You can definitely, I think, in the summer, have the, you know, limited time off for like the cookies. Subway, if I were to make a suggestion, make them your wife. You macadamia nut cookies, those ones are everyone's favorite anyway, and try it that way and make sure they're cooked all the way versus doing things with Cinebun and this and that, because then it kind of overpopulates and it kind of confuses us as customers because Cinebun is not Subway. If I want Cinebun, I'm going to Cinebun, but I'm here for a reason and you're known for your cookies, you know, for your customization. So let's keep track on that and use that as your brand

voice and identity. And so for me, again, as a loyalist, I think they're missing the mark with some of these limited time offer things. But they can bring it back by say, okay, we know we're not the healthiest, but we're still going to give you that customization if you're feeling overwhelmed in a world where, you know, you live, like I live in Toronto, so there's a thousand restaurants. So if you want something that's nostalgic, you know, you want something that, you know, you can rely on, come to subway. And if they can. can just harness and focus on that, they're golden because we, you know, everybody has their subway order locked in the back of their mind. So that's my opinion, though.

Sheena, I think you're spot on because what happened, unfortunately, with that $5 promo is they trained consumers, customers to lock subway in at a $5 price point. And you said that was in 2008. The economy is very different now. So when you go and your $5 sandwich is to your point, is now $13 or somewhere around there. You know, when it was $5, they had their share of scandals or pushback or skepticism, like their tuna is not tuna. Their bread is made of sugar, which I think happened in Ireland and they had some court disputes there. Their footlong is not really a foot long and that's a trademark.

I'm not saying all these things are true, but these have been, you know, widely, publicly debated with different outcomes. But at a $5 price point, I guess you keep going back at a at a 12, 11, $13, $14 point, you start to look at it. Well, what's in an equivalent? You know, if I pay $15, $16, what's an even healthier option? What's a more customizable option? What's a better for you option? Yeah.

I'm just going to say, I think they're trying to fill that gap of the $5 mentality and say, well, we can give you something for $3 to $5. It's just going to be gimmicky, you know? It's going to be something else. It's not going to be our core product anymore. Right. We don't have to evolve as a consumer and the customers have evolved and their needs have, requirements have evolved. And so I do think there's that core component that we talked about, like how can they win their customers back?

But they also need to think about how our tastes have changed. So to your point, Erin and, and, you know, if I'm going to spend $13 on a sandwich, I may be more likely to go to the neighborhood sandwich store and support a local business that I, you know, a mom and pop business that, you know, everybody goes to and they use farm fresh ingredients, etc., etc. You know, and that's what I might do because I want to help them succeed. And, you know, you look at, even though their franchises, it still feels very like a huge corporation that Subway is. And so I think there's a couple things that they could think about from, you know, a fixing perspective is like doubling down on fresh, like going back to what they were known for and partner with like local farms, local farmers markets for hyper fresh ingredients just like their competitors like Jersey Mikes does, right? And get away from this people now feeling like they're fast food and they're not, it's not healthy for you. So launching like a clean label menu.

So it's just showing you all the things that don't have artificial additives verified by someone else. Like, you know, you're starting to see these clean menus at other places. You know, indulgence with purpose. You know, so like if they're going to do limited time collaborations, maybe they're regionalized, right? So they're like, oh, you know, Chino, to your point that this is what happens once a year here, you know, we want to, you know, I'm just making this up. But like, you know, there's like the Gilroy garlic festival, you know, in Northern California. And so like maybe for that month that they have that, they have like a garlic bread type of sandwich or something. But those are just for their franchises there.

And that would be really kind of cool. You know, the other thing is finding collaborations that fit the brand. Like you were just saying, like I don't get it with it fits the brand because that's, that's the overarching company that owns Subway now. But like, I don't know that, right? Like, I don't care that they, that Sinnebon and Buffalo Wild Wings is owned by the same place. But if there was some sort of collaboration, even if it was with like social media influencers, right? You know, they'll tell you, hey, this is my favorite sandwich and then you can go in there and get an Addison Ray sandwich, whatever, you know, whoever it might be.

be, you know, depending upon what it is. But just kind of keeping it localized, I think is really important, as well as, you know, I don't think Subway has a secret menu, but you know, all the other places have secret menus. That's like a viral thing too, right? So like, in and out has a secret menu. Starbucks has a secret menu. McDonald's even has a secret menu. So like, do they have a secret menu? you know, and maybe that they can like, you know, maybe they need to get their social media marketing, you know, we're going back to basics. And then, you know, there's like this monster jam sandwich or what it might be. And then figuring out the business optics, right? So maybe for customers like you, Chino, you get a subscription, right, where you get a subway pass. That would be cool, you know, and it's $10. a month and you get one free foot long and you and then like you know McDonald's tested it. I don't know if they still have that going on. Or I remember this because I used to know what days and this is what days we used to go to subway

but they had days that was like buy a sub and get a free cookie or get free chips. Like we knew what days were what days. So like maybe they need to have that kind of calendar back out there again and that could be a way to gain more customers. But to me, I feel like they need to kind of get back to basics, but also modernize those basics. So like everybody's talking about like, you know, the freshest ingredients. I mean, if you've seen any Chippoldi ads, they're always talking about how they make the guacamole in store, right? Like in, and they're showing, you know, somebody making the guacamole, you know, making the grilling the meat, all those kinds of things. That, that,

Those are the kinds of things that I think Subway has gotten away from, right? Because they bake their own bread. They do those things. And I think also maybe letting the franchise owners share in profitability. I don't know what their profitability model is, but also allowing them to make them to feel more like iconic little local stores. Yeah. Yeah, we should remember this is a franchise model with about $150,000 buy-in at least. So, and the franchisees don't want as much as it brings in foot traffic.

They don't want the $5 model. Maybe a corporate can absorb it at the corporate level to run these limited time offers. But a franchisee is a small business. You know, they've got to be profitable. Right. And so they don't want the $5 version, get them in the door, but we lose money every time. And they also don't want, Melissa, I love what you're saying about hyper-local and doubling down on farm-fresh ingredients. And they're also, they're in Walmarts and they're in gas stations and they're around the corner.

How do you keep that up at scale and not go to a $30 sandwich, which, you know, franchisees don't want either because no one will come. Right. It's a balancing act for sure. And I think again, what they need to remember is like, yes, Subway Eat Fresh. That's literally their slogan. If we can get back to the freshness and partnering with local farms and showcasing that in some way is great. obviously Subway is massive, right? So I think it's almost impossible for them to be more community-based in a way because they are so huge. Like, how do you scale that and make sure it's consistent? Like, what I love about Subways, it's consistent. Yeah.

No matter where I go, it's the same sub. And I think they need to remember that. And I think that is, that's it. That's their brand. And if you can, you know, win that. And I've loved your idea, Melissa, on, you know, working with different influences. right? Like Airwane is doing that with different smoothies and it was like the Haley Beaver smoothie. Why not do a fixer sub? You know, or we agree or whoever the influencer of the day is, I'm just joking.

Subway, but if you're there, please call us. You know, I'd love to make a sub that like is super cool. And maybe those are the secret menus. And those are like those viral moments that they can kind of move into 2025 in terms of their marketing and bringing that brand, refresh where, you know, we are still talking about $5 footlongs. That's, that's being gone. $5 foot long, it's almost been like, what, eight years, 10 years since that's happened. And so we need to, what's the next thing for that? But maybe it is a secret menu. Maybe it is, hey, this is what, I don't know, Beyonce. Celebrity, this is sort of subway order and you partner there or, you know, Coachella was just last weekend and it's going to begin this weekend, like, are you doing something cool? Is there an activation that you can do? I know they've

recently brought on Greg Lyons as their global chief marketing officer who comes from Pepsi, who's a trailblazer. He is iconic. He's really helped build the Pepsi brand when it comes to Gatorade and Peerleap and Mountain Dew. And I think I'm excited for him to come in and just to see where he takes subway next. And I just hope that, you know, they were member the me's, their loyal customers where it's like, I like the nostalgia. I like that I know what I'm getting every time. And if you can figure that out and find other ways that I can lean on the products that are great, like their cookies are amazing. Like they're, they're quite fresh. They're quite soft. It's actually one of my favorite cookies, weirdly. But I feel like they're

not capitalizing on their products by kind of muddying the water with all these other brands. So lean on Subway. Like you do have a good product. That's why you've blown up as big as you have. So let's try to remind your customers in the world that. Yeah. And I also love what you. I mean, I do think that like that is the key about Subway, the consistency.

Like it's the same like with McDonald's and things like that. Like when you go abroad or you go someplace else, you're like, sometimes you're just like, I just want that. And that's and I know what I'm going to get. What's interesting, like with them going into China, for example, is the idea of like, will there be, I'm sure there will be based on, you know, ingredients that are accessible to them. But will there be other types of things, a footlong dumpling, you know, who knows, you know, those kinds of things. Because I know that like when you travel to other countries and you see, you go to McDonald's, for example, in Rome, you can get beer, you know. on the menu. You know,

there's other things on the menu. I was very sad because they didn't have egg McMuffins. I was like, what? I just got up at 5 a.m.

to get an egg McMuffin and they did not have that next item. It was so sad. I started crying, actually, because I love, though,

the idea of, like, really kind of getting back, almost back to basics, and then also finding innovative ways to market things,

to market things that are not necessarily so off base, but could become what they were going to be known for. Like, you know, because when you think of subway, there's a lot of things you think about. You think about the New York City subway, right? So like the subway pass, I think is a really kind of a cute kind of thing. Subway tokens, whatever you want to call them. But like they could also think about, you know,

not just with influencers and upping their media game, but like, Other companies are doing, like Taco Bell is doing this. They have a after like a late night menu because that's when people go to Taco Bell a lot, right? Like after the bars. So what if Subway had the same thing, like a subway after dark or something like that where they, and maybe that was like a foot long and it's not $13, but it's $10 and it's pre-made and they only have five of those. and that's like kind of that you're you go grab it and go you know and it's you you know or I mean they I think that they should start thinking about those types of things yeah okay yeah

I wonder too like for me again I'm subway like I feel like such a weird but I'm like I am something and I'm like here I am something and I don't even really know that they had a breakfast menu until like two or three years ago right and that's a huge thing. And I remember they had the Beyond Meat little patties and they had it for like two or three months. And I remember I only had one. And it was like the first time I realized that there was like subway breakfast. And I'm like, you've been doing this behind the scenes. I'm one of your top customers. How come I just realized this like two years ago? And they let go of the Beyond Meat like larger patties. There's different ones now. They're still okay. But like let's. like, you know, educate your customer base because I think there's a lot of things. Like, there are, like, again, I have the app as well. They have discounts that they give and promos that they do. And there's a sub of each day if you're paying close enough attention.

But you often have to go into the stores to do that. And so I just think they need to do a better job at marketing what they already have. Like some of these things that we're saying, they're already doing. I love the idea of like a secret menu or like an after. Hours, where I would challenge it is I think there still needs to be some customization because I think they need to really lean on like it's exactly how you like it. Right. But if you can create like, okay, here's like, you know, Melissa's favorite after hour's thing.

Like you can just pull that and maybe those are the ready to made ones to go. But again, you have to keep reminding us as customers that, no, we're here because we like the nostalgia. We're here because we like the way it tastes and just, you know, double, triple. quadruple down on that. But I just think they need to do a better job of educating their customer base because how do you have a whole breakfast menu and you've done that for years? And I am just learning that two years ago.

That's like not acceptable. I would have gone so many times versus dragging myself to Tim Horton's, you know? And that's funny that you brought the breakfast menu up because I didn't know about that either. And then I had a boss. This is the same time that I was going to subway twice a week. lunch with my team. My boss at that time, I went to a meeting and he had a subway sandwich in his car. And I was like, what the heck gross? Has that been in here since yesterday? And he's like,

no, I go there every morning for breakfast. And he had like the egg whites. I mean, he was on a special diet, like egg white, spinach. And I'm like, that's from subway. And he's like, yeah, they made eight sandwiches. And I'm like, no, they don't. Like they don't. What? And he's, he's, He's like, yeah, and he got one every single day. And so I do agree. I think that, like, you know, there's like, and that's a whole different group of customers, right? So you're right. Like, how are they not getting that out there to everybody so that everybody knows, especially

their loyalists? And, like, I don't know what their loyalty rewards, but, like, Chino, you should have, you should have, like, a little punch card that says, you know, for every. five sandwiches, you get one free or, you know, maybe it's 10 sandwiches. Every 10 sandwiches, you get one free, but like you should based on how much you go. So, yes. I mean, I don't know what they're absolutely. Do they have an app? Do they have an app? We do have. Like, I will tell you all the products I have. I literally, I'm staring at the coupons right now. Like I, they still do direct mail. And when the subway coupon comes, I cut it out from me and my husband and put it in

both of our wallets. So in case anyone is at a subway, you know, they do buy one, get ones, or certain subs, or they're trying a new flavor of sauce recently. Like, also, Subway, should you not pay for this? I think you should pay for this episode because I'm really, you know, sponsor us, but they have a lot of great things. And there's so many promos that they're doing constantly. Like, I actually check their app before I go to a subway now. And again, I didn't know about the app until about a few months ago. And so that was like a self-discovery. my end. Same thing with the, the breakfast. They should be doing like what McDonald's does on their apps.

So if you use the app, you get like French fries for free, right? Like, so there should be something that like if you, Chena, were to pre-order because you order the same thing probably. I don't know you, but I know you. Yes. You probably order the same kind of sandwich every time. Like they can have it ready to go by use, because, you know, like, you know how Starbucks does that on their app, right? It says you just order the same thing, you know, do you want this? Do you want this? So they should have something like that. And then you get a little bit of a discount or a little added bonus.

You get the white macadamia cookie or whatever it is. And that will keep the loyalist going. And then also us sharing that with others, right? You know, and because I do think it's it's kind of, I would say that like my kids are not. subway people. I think they view it as less, less good than Jimmy Johns or, you know, Jersey mics. And I don't really understand that. I mean, my son was a sandwich architect like you, Aaron, at Jimmy Johns. That's what he called himself. But I mean, there's something about like getting food from a gas station or a Walmart that kind of makes, I think people feel like, I don't know, but it's that way. It's the consistency component, Chino, that you were talking about.

It should always be the same and it's convenient. Yeah. We're getting our wrap up. And Chino, I really appreciate you brought up the fact about Greg Lyons coming on to lead marketing. I'm pretty optimistic about that. You know, if you can do well for Pepsi in a world where people are cutting back on their soda consumption, I think he's going to bring a lot of cultural relevance and also make sure that consumers, you know, the offerings don't fly under the radar.

Like, everything they serve should be known and should be have value and connect to their customer base. So I don't think there's going to be, you know, hidden items, unless it's purposeful. It's like the secret venue they were in talking about that, you know, their diehard customers don't know about or aren't drawn to. But before we wrap, I have to ask again, can you blame, while they say we're finding our way or we're going back to freshness or can you blame them for, embracing the footlong aspect of their brand and throwing things out there and saying,

you know, we're going to keep doing that. And we're going to do a foot long rolled pancake from IHOP. We're going to do a foot long breadstick from Olive Garden. We're going to do a foot long hot dog. I mean, if as long as people buy it and it helps their business in the meantime, is that bad? Tell me what you think. I don't think it's bad, but I think it puts a lot of pressure on the franchise owners. Because you know what?

I'm not used to making pancakes. I don't have a friar to make chicken wings, right? You know, I'm not used to, you know, churros, whatever it might be, right? The Cinebond thing. I think that that needs to be balanced. So if you can make it so it's easy. So let's say, for example, I know Cinebon's not going to be easy, but let's say the batter is just add water.

and the frosting comes in a tube and they can just do it and they can do it within what what they have at every site, then that makes sense to me that they can try to do these cross-collabs. But otherwise, I think you're putting a lot of pressure out there and it's a lot of identity whiplash. That's my feeling. And I would say that what they should be doing, and I'm sure Greg's doing this, is like, really looking at the data. So how much are you really selling of these types of LTOs?

And then if that is not really successful, then allow the franchises to either opt out or to do different things. Because, you know, you might think that something sells well in Chicago, but it's not going to sell well necessarily in San Antonio, right? So who know? Okay. So listen to your franchisees, try to go local, stay community. committed to your fresh ingredients, have not doubled down on that. Find your way through cultural relevance without resorting to look at us type of LTOs that have, you know, are just kind of a stab in the dark and maybe they'll come out of it.

Do we, Chino, did we fix it? If Greg Lyons and the subway team can remember why there are people like me that continue to go back after years and years and years, it, the remembering your brand is the consistency, right? It's fresh and I know what I'm getting and I can make it my own. And if you can lean on that, great. I'm all up for partnerships if it makes sense. The trouble is there's a lot of things that you're doing currently that are great. Your subway or your subway breakfast menu is actually really good. I didn't know that. So educating your customers are going to be a huge piece of all of this. You know, I've tried Jersey mics for the first time. Great.

A different type of sub. It's not my sub that I'm going to get. And I think their win is they are huge. The second you expand to China, that's going to take off. Like, that's where you're win and your leg up on everybody is. And so how to get the younger generation hooked on subway is leaning back into that brand identity that we all fell in love with. And once you find your sub and maybe that's the, that's the campaign. pain, find your sub. People continue to go back because of that nostalgia, that consistency that we

look for in crave in a world where you're bombarded with so many things. And if they can nail, like if they can just really capture that, they'll nail this. Like, you know, Greg Lyons is there. I'm sure he's thinking up so many incredible things. And so I do think if they can remember that, they fixed it. Love it. What do you say, Melissa? I agree with Chino. I think that we can fix it through doubling down on fresh, doubling down on what their core, what the core customers want, and also modernizing. And so making sure that you're thinking about like identifying things on the menu that are clean, that are good, that are fresh, that are good for you, and maybe coming up with some of those healthier identities of subs. I also think that they can do it through

really strong focus on their branding and marketing. And so I believe he can help drive that because this is a very full market. There are a lot of other sandwich shops out there that are doing a lot of things. And what they want to do is like become that viral thing. So I love Chino. I mean, you should be working for them. You know, you know, find your own sub or what a secret, you know, subway secret menu. this is what the, you know, the TikTok sub of the week, whatever it might be, you know, the subway

past, we talked about like all the different things that they could be doing to just kind of freshen their brand, sorry, pun, but freshen their brand and make it more modern and make it more relevant and then have it go off on its own. And then I think, you know, to be really, to make it work, they've got to embrace their core, franchise owners in making sure that they're part of the solution and not just having to implement things that they don't necessarily truly believe in. And just to add on that part to you, Melissa, the soul of Subway is really the sandwich artist, engineers, architects.

Yes. I'm sure everyone's been there. the right person can really make or break yourself. And so make it easy for your artist to, you know, bring out great subs. Like bring that consistency. Make people fall in love. Make people addicted. I have addicted because I've had, there was one person I'd walk in and then knew exactly

what I was having and he had it ready for me. And that's kind of what you can get as a French shoes. But if you're doing so many different things, these poor artists are just overwhelmed and swamped. And the product that is not really that great. you know, sure you have a cinnamon, but is it even cooked all the way? Did they know how to do that? No, you ruined everything with that. So stick to basics, help your teams, help you.

And yeah, we'll be back. Call me subway. I'm ready, Greg. All right. And we'll see if the Doritos, nachos are still around by the time this comes out. That does it for this episode. If we fixed it, you're welcome. I'd say mission accomplished.

We did what we set out to do. Whether you eat it, drive it, wear it, trust your data to it. Whatever the it is, we'll be back to fix it. Keep sending us your own fixes at we fixeditpod.com or my fix at we fixed it pod.com. And we will see you next time. This podcast is produced by Straightforward Media Group, all rights reserved. If you'd like to learn more about how a podcast can help your company establish authority and generate leads, please email us at Eric at straightforwardmg.com or go to straightforwardmg.com for more. information.