We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Is Outer Space for Everyone?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. Today we're talking about something that used to be science fiction and now feels like a checkmark on a billionaire's bucket list. Space travel. It's not just for astronauts and cosmonauts anymore. These days it seems anyone who can write a big check can take a joyride into the unknown. If you've seen the resulting photos and videos, a space voyage looks like summer camp. for the Uber wealthy, the ultimate experience. And what do you get for the price of admission? Right now, we're talking about three to five minutes in zero gravity and then back to the mansion.

Starting point is 00:00:42 But this is just getting started. The push to commercialize space travel is escalating. And an increasing number of for-profit companies want to go to space for their own purposes. It's not too far-fetched to think about private space stations, moon bases, maybe even luxury hotels and cities somewhere other than Earth. These are real conversations. that are happening, and plans are in the works. We're going to figure this all out and ask the question, who does space belong to? Is it governments? Corporations that can outspend governments? Should we all go full speed ahead into space for the sake of progress? Or are we collectively pushing the limits of something we don't truly understand yet? Well, Chino, Melissa, I don't claim to

Starting point is 00:01:24 be an expert on any of this. Today we're joined by Christopher Hirsey. Christopher is a global space executive and the founder and CEO of OSA Consulting, where he focuses on expanding access to the space sector for entrepreneurs, startups, and organizations around the world. He spent his career at the intersection of space policy and business, advising aerospace companies, working in regulatory and government affairs, and helping shape how commercial space evolves, both in the U.S. and globally. Christopher, please tell us more about yourself and also tell us by your nonprofit. Yeah, well, thank you. It was wonderful to be here, Aaron. joined by Chino and Melissa to talk about space.

Starting point is 00:02:03 My career, I've been in it for almost 20 years, and I've worked in a variety of different roles. I've worked at the State Department during the Obama administration, and it was part of an interagency team running the national space policy. I've worked as both corporate council and a director for a company called Bigelah Aerospace, which sent the first expandable commercial habitation module to the International Space Station in 2015. But also, as you mentioned, I co-founded a global nonprofit called the Space Court Foundation. There's a little bit of an irony because there is no courts in space.

Starting point is 00:02:39 So we create a foundation ahead of time so that people understand that the rule of law applies to space. And what we do is we promote space law education and the rule of law. We have a global internship program. We take about 30 students a year. We do original research. And you can check us out on our website at www. and at spacecourtfoundation.org and at SpaceCourt Foundation on YouTube, where we have some content directed at getting the general public to understand what actually

Starting point is 00:03:07 is space law and regulation and how that works in your daily life. And our flagship pilot that we have there is called Stelladocysis. We're invited three notable professionals in space law to adjudicate a fake space law case that we presented by actual two space lawyers who were actually husband and wife. both of them are very good friends of mine, but one of them was my roommate in law school. So one thing about the space community is, well, it may seem it's filled with billionaires and multimillionaires. It's filled a lot of average people who just have a passion for space and want to see space developed in an economical and safe and inclusive way. Well, thanks Christopher. I'm really glad to have you here with us.

Starting point is 00:03:50 And I think space lawyer is probably the coolest business card there could ever be. You know this stuff more than any of us. I'm going to try to get the rest of us up to speed in about a minute. So modern space exploration really begins with Sputnik in 1957 and the space race with the Soviet Union. Within 12 years, we were walking on the moon, one small step for man. Yay! The U.S. and Soviet space initiatives were each backed by different governments, but they were both government-funded projects. So, in fact, for most of modern history, space exploration has been the result of efforts by one government or another.

Starting point is 00:04:22 In over six decades, roughly only 360 NASA-assadded. astronauts have gone to space. That's a small group of people. If you went to space, it was because you were a trained astronaut selected by NASA or another national program. But now, here comes private companies like Blue Origin and SpaceX with a focus on passengers who are civilians. Rich civilians, important researchers, pop stars, you've seen the headlines. Since 2021, Blue Origin alone has taken over 80 individuals into space on short suborbital missions. That may not sound like a lot, and the flights are short, but compared to the elite class of astronauts in the past, it's clear things are changing. The door is cracking open.

Starting point is 00:05:03 And it gets more interesting, NASA plans to retire the International Space Station after 2030. Instead of replacing it with another government-owned station, NASA is encouraging private companies to build the next generation of space stations as commercial destinations. And since space is governed by agreements like the Outer Space Treaty, which says no nation can claim. ownership of the moon or other celestial bodies, we're entering a complicated situation. No one country can own space, but companies can build, operate, and profit there under national laws. So here's what we're going to fix. Since it's already happening, should we all get on board with space tourism? Our private companies are equipped to take the lead on space exploration and development, and just because all of this is possible doesn't mean it should be happening

Starting point is 00:05:50 at the speed it's happening. That's our conversation. Chris, where you want to kick us up, off? Sure. I mean, my position is we've got to get the office planet. You know, in my career, we or I have and working with different colleagues work to send people and things to space. You know, I've worked with companies like SpaceX and others, Virgin Galactic. I'm mostly on the human spaceflight side in my career, but we're also moving to sailout operations and you see a lot of robust changes there. I think what the average person needs to understand is that most of which you understand the state-of-the-art technology here on Earth has not actually moved into space. We've not tested a lot of things. So you probably hear about things like putting data centers.

Starting point is 00:06:31 Well, when you start hearing about all these different things you can do in space, it raises a lot of questions. So you mentioned the Outer Space Treaty. The Outer Space Treaty in Article 1 actually says that outer space is the common regime of humanity. I'm paraphrasing. There's a different word for that, but it's a little controversial and I want to go down that rabbit hole. But the whole point is, is that everyone is supposed to have access to space. Over the last, I would say, 20, 25 years, there's been a huge uptick in the number of companies that have both successfully gone to space and also unsuccessfully gone to space. I think that's a good thing. We have to try out how we do things and we have to see what works. Now, that's not to say that there aren't serious policy issues associated

Starting point is 00:07:17 with that. And for me, you know, my career has been trying to get larger commercialization efforts so that anyone, whether it's Aaron, Chino, Melissa, or your kids, your grandkids, your great-grandchildren, anyone you know, will they want to go to space? They can't go to space. And I think that's a, there's a, there is a fundamental, at least philosophical reason for me, which was I don't think that as a species, we're in a suicide pact with each other to stay on this planet. Now, how we go about that is the central question. And lots of people have different ideas about settling the moon or going to Mars. And that's all great. But what you have to keep in mind is the slow role of this technology into space and utilized by space is what keeps this podcast actually to be recorded, to be distributed.

Starting point is 00:08:05 It allows you to move money around through bank accounts. It allows you to make your phone calls wherever you are on this earth. And it also helps you figure out where the you are and you don't have a Thomas guide anymore and you have to rely on GPS. So our society has evolved to the point where we depend on space technology for everyday life. And if it all went away tomorrow, we'd all have to go back to the way the things used to be in the 70s and 80s and rely on paper things, on institutional knowledge. I mean, how many people even remember phone numbers anymore? So, you know, it's part of our society now and how we adapt to it, I think, is really the important

Starting point is 00:08:43 bit and you first start with who has access to going to space. I think it's interesting when you talk about the democratization because it's not just I have a right to live in a time or something exciting like this is happening and I'm watching the progress happen and the technology catch up. But I have a right to participate. Yeah, I understand theoretically what you're saying, Chris, that yes, it's open to us, but in reality it's not. I would just say that it's still an exclusive opportunity. You know, it's costly. Like, you know, all of the people you've mentioned who've gone to space have had to pay a great deal. And the average citizen of the world doesn't have that kind of money to be able to pay to go up to space. So I think, you know, to focus the conversation,

Starting point is 00:09:31 and I don't know how we want to do that, Chris or Aaron, but like, I do think that there are multitudes of components before we get to the point where we can really, say space is an opportunity that all of us have a right to that we can actually participate in because I get it theoretically we've already got the space station where we've already done some of these things we've had SpaceX we've had Blue Origin go up but again it's a very limited population group that's getting that opportunity and so the thought is really understanding what is the client value proposition so the person who who chooses to pay to go up, right?

Starting point is 00:10:14 And also, what is the business value proposition? So to your point, Chris, like we're looking to expand into space and have the opportunities. So it's about business. It's about like what are we going to be doing and how are we going to be building structures and processes and operations and, you know, the research missions and all the things that are currently up there, you know, and, you know, do we really even want to duplicate what's on earth to some places? Probably don't. I don't know. Well, it's interesting because you think of these open marketplaces like eBay or YouTube or Etsy where it starts off with everyone's invited

Starting point is 00:10:58 and everyone's, it's diplomatic and you can come on and have a representation there. But then it builds into this, well, some know how to do it better than others and some are more structured and some sell better. And then those rise to the top and that everyone egalitarian model kind of falls away. And yeah, you can still be there, but you don't really have much of a presence or much of a voice and you don't do as well as others that are now suddenly at the top. I got to jump in. I got to jump in. This is so, Chris, I'm so excited to have you here. I've actually worked with the Planetary Society before. And their mission is all about empowering the world citizens to advance space science and exploration, which I have.

Starting point is 00:11:37 a thousand percent stand beside. I believe deeply that we need to be doing more in terms of space research. I agree with your first statement too, Chris, about, you know, we need to get the hell out of here. We figure out a different way. And as you were talking to about like how it impacts human physically to go into space, that's all science. And what I wanted kind of fragment this conversation, because there's two aspects to this. There's the like, utilitarian need to figure something better because as humans, we've not been that great with our planet, right? There's a finite time.

Starting point is 00:12:14 It's a long time, but it's finite. What other ways to explore? But to do that, it's all based on science, right? For me personally, when I'm looking at these multi-billion dollar companies who've invested into space travel, my challenge here, like similar to the Titanic exploration, you're having people do this for their own ego. And I don't want this to be, excuse my French, a dick measuring contest to see who's there first. And yes, I appreciate Tom Cruise going there and Russia coming into doing a scene. We as humans need to figure out and have the science there

Starting point is 00:12:52 to back it. I want to touch on the planetary side a little bit because they had a day of action last year to help. They went to Congress to negotiate and hopefully rebut their claim to want to cut down their funding 50% right last year they were able to take that it there's going to be another day of action April 19th to the 20th of this year and go on their website to check out how you can be a part of that but I think that yes there needs to be space lawyer but we need to make sure that this is grounded on bringing back information in science versus just sending celebrities up and it becoming your next holiday vacation spot because there is a need to do to explore seasons to bring that science back um and i think again when we talked about and you mentioned

Starting point is 00:13:48 chris you know right now it's no one's you know one's owning anything right as a nation um i'm not american i'm canadian right so canadian here um when we talk talk about threat actors and, you know, with the current political climate of going on, sometimes you got to ask, yes, obviously there's certain things, but who's controlling that radar? Because a threat actor to you and me can look differently depending on what that is. And I'm sure I would have loved to sit in the room when the, you know, the husband in Hawaii space lawyers are going back and forth on that. But that is something we need to be able to tackle. I do think we need space exploration. I would love to see.

Starting point is 00:14:32 that backed by billionaires Elon, give NASA some more money. I know that you wanted to help TSA. You just put out a statement on X saying that you would help the TSA, you know, providing income for the people that are losing their income while there is the strike. Can we add your billion dollars, more than a couple billion dollars to NASA and other aspects so that the everyday person who is excited and who wants to be about it, who understands the need for space exploration to become their own scientists, to help bring back something. If we're going to do space exploration and tours, there should be something that we're

Starting point is 00:15:14 bringing back from a research perspective outside of just how this impacts the human body. And I think that's where I'm finding the miss here as an everyday citizen, where it's just another luxury for the billionaires, where I'm not seeing it as how are we trying to help the human race essentially to explore space. And so Chris, I'm curious because I know a lot of people have the same sentiment. I am not intimately in this world. I completely back the planetary society. I love what they stand for as well.

Starting point is 00:15:49 And I know that your non-for-profit and what you do is exactly this. But how would you tell our listeners who say that this is just for billionaires? And what would be the win to do that? Yeah, yeah, I'd start with the floor and a ceiling. So the floor is for $5 to $10,000, you can go to Southampton, Pennsylvania right now and figure out if you're medically cleared to go to space. And you could get cleared to go work with SpaceX or Blue or Virgin or whomever else comes online for human spaceflight. They train for all that.

Starting point is 00:16:22 That is no different than doing anything that would be an extreme environment. So you want to climb to the top of Mount Everest. You want to go to the bottom of the ocean. The difference is that when it comes to spaceflight, human spaceflight, like this stuff is taken very seriously. Everyone involved takes safety very seriously. What you have to understand is that all human spaceflight activities is designated legally as ultra-hazardous.

Starting point is 00:16:49 And the same thing that you do, like if you want to do paragliding or parachuting or whatever it is, stunt flying, it's all the same legal. regime. Now, the ceiling on this is, and the sort of the pushback on the billionaires taking vacations, that's actually not accurate. It is a reflection because Bezos and Richard Branson had to demonstrate for themselves and their constituencies that their spacecraft works. The person that's not on that list, Elon has never flown to space. Elon's never been on a dragon, and he is never going to get on a vehicle unless he's, is ready to go die on Mars.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Like that's, you said that publicly. But that's not taking a vacation. That's a one-way trip for him. You don't hear the same rhetoric out of Richard Branson or Bezos or very few others. So that's an exception. But having done this for clients who tried to get A-listers to space, I can tell you it's not that simple. And the perfect example actually is Bezos. So think of any celebrity that you'd like to see in space.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Okay? and I'll put just one asterist on Tom Cruz because he's the exception in all of Hollywood, all of the A-listers, because he can self-fund. If you are an A-lister or extremely high-wealth individual like Jeff Bezos, if you want to go to space, all of your lawyers and all of your insurers will say, sure, but you need to do X, Y, and Z things to do that. What did Bezos have to do? He had to cancel all his insurance for a day, and he had to resign from a bunch of boards,

Starting point is 00:18:27 all his boards are on because the risk if he dies means everything goes into probate or whatever, you know, trust that he's got set up. And you don't want to deal with that. But if you're an actor, you can't take two years off of not making movies. I mean, look at some of the A-list actors, Timothy Shalamea, whatever, right? They're doing two, three, four movies in a two, three-year period. So it's an opportunity cost. Do I go and make $120 million and maybe win an Academy Award? or do I just hang out with a bunch of people for two years and train for space? Now, the training time for space is significantly been diminished, but it depends on what you want to do there and how long you want to be there.

Starting point is 00:19:08 For example, Jared Isaacman, the current NASA administrator, he's still the only real, let's say, wealthy person that's gone to SpaceX to be their guinea pig. And one of the consequences of him being their guinea pig is that he demonstrated an EVA an exosurricular activity. So that's basically putting on a pressurized space suit, depressurizing the capsule with all your friends inside, walking outside, doing an EVA for a certain period of time, usually like 30 seconds and coming back in.

Starting point is 00:19:38 But I could easily see Tom Cruise wanting not to have any tether and have some sort of propulsion system with the satellites as cameras showing him do some Mission Impossible 15 stunt, right? I mean, so it's interesting and who actually can go to space and what we would expect to go to space. So all of these things are opening up. Yeah, Chris, you were talking about first.

Starting point is 00:20:03 And you know, you were talking about it too. And there's like a pissing match going on. And there's a premium. You know, whoever's going to be first to do anything in this sector is going to pay multiples. Like the first VCR is to market. Back in the day, we're $1,200 or $1,500. when they hit economies of scale and product adoption, that dropped quite a bit.

Starting point is 00:20:25 So first one in the door is going to pay that $60 million or whatever it is. Second, third, 28th, you know, as the line goes longer, yeah, they're booked out for the next five, ten years and maybe no end in sight. And the more that they can command a premium for for these elite experiences, more power to them. But at some point, if you really want to turn this into a viable, enterprise beyond just the ultra elite that get bankrolled or can write the check, you got to figure out how do you make it accessible to more, more players and let the doors open?

Starting point is 00:21:04 And I think just on that note too, because I, again, agree, I do think people should be going up. I think we should be exploring space. We need to for humanity. But when we look at it from like a people in culture lens of like, what does this mean, right? Again, being first is great but I do think if you're a business that says I want to do it like again with the um you know for poor kate not poor katie perry very rich katie perry and gail king and Lauren sanchus who went up on the blue origin flight right for women international women's day I think that was last year which is insane to think about but when they came back it was an insane blowback it didn't read well Katie Perry kind of had to you know go underground a little bit, dating my former prime minister, but it just wasn't, it didn't read well. And so if you're a brand who's saying, okay, great, I want to bring Katie Perry, I want to bring Gil King, I want to bring Aaron and Melissa and Chris to space. There needs to be a messaging there too, because I think at the end of the day, this all goes back to like, what is the greater good? I believe, like, you're right, Chris.

Starting point is 00:22:17 If you, you know, something happened to all the people who have made their careers in space exploration, who've worked at NASA. There's not that many, there's not that many pool, but are there a thousand and millions of people who are interested looking at the Planetary Society's membership? I know that that's a fact. And I think it's going to cost millions. But what I don't want to happen is it just become a ego trip to go up there. I would love to see that money being donated back. We have in-kind donations to NASA or other private sectors, Chris, that you work with. You're not-per-profit that actually will help bring more people into the space community because it should be accessible.

Starting point is 00:23:04 Right now, the barrier to entry is money. And if you're a billionaire that has no problem doing these little ego trips, I would really hope that you would add something to and give back as part. of your trip to a optically it looks good on you but b you're allowing for more of the space exploration and the science because it can't just be a trip you know that 10 minute concert is cool for who not me not you it's not doing anything like what are you if you're going to go up there what are the what's the data you're gathering outside of just what the effects are on humans we have a larger data set on that you talked about um the degree of, you know, safety that we do know. And like, there's opportunities to train. So that's

Starting point is 00:23:52 great. Obviously, more data is important. But what else? What else is out there that we're not touching on because we're so focused on being the first versus looking at it from a space exploration. I think as a business, you can't do A without that critical piece without looking like an asshole, to be frank. And I think that if you're going to do that as a business, that's, they need to go together. Almost. If we put companies in charge instead of governments and make companies the gatekeepers? Does that solve anything? Does that make it better to start to open things up and have companies be the decision makers of other companies that get to play along? As opposed to governments, does that help to democratize a

Starting point is 00:24:35 situation or is just out complexity? I think it adds complexity, but I also think that what you're saying is a proven thing. So when different companies are involved, in operations and scaling or transforming, innovating, growing a business, it's really important that they learn from their past. And so I think, Chris, you've talked about this a little bit about, you know, what do we want out there in space and what are the types of industries that are going to be relevant, are going to continue to, you know, bring resources in there, are going to bring travel there, are going to be part of a critical mission, Gino, that's both culturally and scientifically and, you know, life-changingly important. And so that's one of the things

Starting point is 00:25:28 that I was asking around value proposition, because I think the value proposition for, I'm going to call them space explorers or space travelers, which would be more the citizen type of person or, you know, or the worker going up to space is different than what the value proposition would be for a business, right? And so when you're seeing that perspective, I would hope that business leaders are, you're getting the most innovative minds, Chris, like yourself, to help to kind of create that roadmap. You know, whenever you think about startups, whenever you think about corporations as they scale and grow, they look to the data to inform them of how to do that effectively. You know, space is still, you know, the unknown frontier, so to speak, in a lot of ways. And even though,

Starting point is 00:26:21 you know, I know you were aligning it, Chris, with, you know, airlines or trains, we've all used different modes of transportation to get where we need to go. There's still a sense of, like, do I trust that this is a safe thing for myself to do, right? And it's the same manner is, do I trust as these operations grow out in space? And do I understand? Is there opakness or is it transparent what their mission is, what their critical mission is? And how can I best understand that and align myself with that? Because I do think it is the answer. We know we need to look further than our small planet. And I do believe, Aaron, to your point, you know, that we need to be very thoughtful and intentional about how we build that out. And I know that there are plenty of smarter people doing that right now.

Starting point is 00:27:19 But again, I don't see that transparency that will help me as an individual say, okay, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I want to do this. I want to be part of it. I'm kind of sitting back and saying, I'd like to see who actually ends up there and what businesses end up there because in relation to, you know, and again, I know that we're talking about it, you know, in a different way.

Starting point is 00:27:50 But it really, again, to me, it doesn't make sense that, you know, you're not going to have a sociologist go up there right now. Like that doesn't have the means, in sponsorship and backing and then has that personal mission to understand what their purpose is to do so. So I think all of that needs to be clearly defined. And I, you know, and again, I'm not aware of all the different things that are going on. I know there's, there's a multitude of countries, there's a multitude of corporations, there's a multitude of societies that are trying to push this

Starting point is 00:28:28 to the forefront. But I do feel like it needs to have. a common thread between to ensure that we are building with intention as we go to space. It seems like the companies that are there have first mover advantage. So, you know, if I, let's say I wanted to start a cell phone company

Starting point is 00:28:47 and I had to apply through the government and work through the bureaucracy and raise all the funding. Like, that's a lot of work and there's a clear path to it. If I wanted to start a cell phone company and I was late to the game and I had to apply to Verizon and T-Mobile,

Starting point is 00:29:01 they're going to have competing incentives of whether or not they let me in and let me play. So are we creating this barrier already of whoever's been, you know, been proven, past some safety regulations and they're already, you know, locked and loaded. They're building the space stations. They're getting the funding and all the money and, you know, like marketplaces that I mentioned like Etsy and those,

Starting point is 00:29:25 are they locking out others that want in and just can't play along because they're too far behind? I think those companies are limiting themselves, to be honest. So what I mean by that, Aaron, is everyone has that same opportunity to what Chris was saying. You know, it's the democratization of space. Who's going to prioritize that? So like if we're just talking, you know, satellites or cell phones, whatever, all of those companies have the same opportunity to prioritize that that's what they want to invest in that may be only a. small one will actually do it. And then to your point, Aaron, they're the first ones there.

Starting point is 00:30:06 Do you see what I'm saying? I feel like I think part of it is people not really putting, you know, or companies, not people, companies may be not prioritizing that because they don't have a Chris on their board to help them understand what that vast opportunity looks like. Yeah. Yeah, Chris, should it be an open marketplace? to whatever companies can survive and thrive, just let them at it? Well, here's the thing. Like, you're talking about exactly what I've been fighting in my entire career to do. You know, before 2000, everything was just, are you Boeing? Are you Lockheed? Are you Northrop Grumman?

Starting point is 00:30:44 Are you a defense prime contractor doing X, Y, and Z and a cost plus contract? Because that's what all of my shareholders are demanding that I charge the government. In the last five, six, seven years, we've had an explosion of companies where you had all kinds of investment dollars from all over the place, from private equity to venture capitalists and everything in between mom and pops, starting some of these great space companies. Some of them get bought up. Some of them fail. Some of them succeed. But everyone is trying to take their space in the vertical where they're still looking around. They're only other couple of competitors or other. are their partners. And the thing is, when it comes to space, it's all integrated. You can't have a rocket without a payload, and you can't have a payload without a rocket. You can't have humans going to space without a payload and a rocket. And if you can't come back, you never fly at all. That's where all these other secondary and tertiary economies are important, because once you establish these platforms, you can get into recycling, you can get into smelting. You can now take

Starting point is 00:31:49 all this crap, put in a bin, melt it, turn it into an excruiter element, and now you can 3D print and space, and you don't have to bring up any material from Earth. And that's the biggest economic driver. And so trying to create these closed-loop economic systems is what experts like myself and others have been trying and working in our career at so that you can not only have an economic justification, but you're going to have, you know, as you said, the public policy rationale. What are you getting out of it?

Starting point is 00:32:16 Right. And so for some people, it's being able to drive to work. For other people, it's to be able to move money to my bank account and pay someone through my Venmo and for other people it's to prevent a nuclear thermonuclear war. Yeah, well, we're not trying to start any wars here. We only want to do good. Which means we've got to fix what we set out to fix. And, you know, it's hard to wrap up in a bullet point, but we'll just say that commercial space travel that we've all seen the celebrities and the billionaires equates in the public's imagination. That's the tip of it. That's the

Starting point is 00:32:54 very public piece of it, but there's a lot more to it. And there's a lot more room for companies and even small companies and even startup companies that aren't as well funded to play along. And what we would just hope is everyone who's there and there to play along is doing it for the right reasons. So let's drill it down to two points in our fix. Let's just say space tourism. Are we for it? Are we for expanding it? Should we be doing it? And then that's number one. And number two, who leads the charge when it's tourism and exploration and commercialization governments or private companies or a mix of both? So tourism, yay or nay, and then who's in charge? Governments, private sector, some of each. Melissa, what do you think?

Starting point is 00:33:44 Well, definitely I am for the tourism. I think that's an exciting and, you know, it's the wave of the future. That's what we're headed towards. But I do think there are some caveats to that, and that includes, you know, building clear safety regulatory frameworks so that I feel safe. Then there's transparency and understanding the data, you know, standardizing. And I think this has already been said. Chris has done a really good job of explaining the customer consent, you know, the client consent, the screening, the training, and all of that that goes into being able to participate. in spaceflight. I also would love to see, you know, in my mind, from an operational perspective,

Starting point is 00:34:32 that we're really focusing on strategically positioning ourselves in this post-international space station world. And what that would mean is, Chris, you just mentioned, there's so many people that are in the space, but they need to partner together to understand. how they can make sure that everything that they're focused on and their mission is really fundamentally being supported by all the different aspects and actors. I mean, it's very interesting. I loved how you said, like, you could get up there, but then where are you? Like, do you have a place to stay? Do you have, you know, how, what if you, you know, is there

Starting point is 00:35:16 health, you know, what happens if there's a medical emergency, you know, like those are all the ancillary areas of support that need to happen when you think about space travel. Thanks, Melissa. So, you know, space tourism thumbs up, thumbs down, and who do we trust to take the charge government or companies? I hope our listeners walk away from this conversation, understanding that space literally is for everybody. It is interconnected.

Starting point is 00:35:42 We can bring a socialist up to space one day because as Chris and Melissa and Aaron and we've shared in this conversation, it's interconnected. You need to be able to learn from each other. So yes, to space exploration is what I would call it. I think with that exploration, it needs to be tied, as Melissa shared, to an intention, an intention for good. And I would love to see every single company, regardless of what country you're coming from, has a pledge to do good, whether do good for space and for earth. So whether that is helping others who, again, that barrier for entry is money, if you can put some dollars down so that we can allow space to be for everybody. Because eventually you're going to need some psychologists up there and, you know, someone to help cook and all of this too.

Starting point is 00:36:37 Like that's what we want to get to. But space is R&D. It's the same way you look at it for any business. You need to invest in it so that you can go out there. You need to work with the Chris of the world so that we can get to that point. We need this. We've established that. Does it need to be run by the government? I don't think so, but I think the government can definitely help bring wider accessibility outside of it just being within a company. So there's a need for both government and for private sectors. And I think, yes, there's always going to be a first for someone. But if that's your main position is just being the first without any of that intention behind it, I think you'll fall flat. as a business looking to do that. So just keep that in mind as you're, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:26 exploring what that can look like. Thank you, Chino. Chris, take us homes. Space tourism and exploration. Just keep it going, yeah? Yeah, I think it'll evolve. I think space tourism will continue to evolve. I think what's exciting about the future of space tourism,

Starting point is 00:37:44 as I mentioned, is that we could be getting more movies. You could get, you know, you could probably do an episode of this podcast. on an Axiom station in the future. So, you know, the cost is slowly coming down. I mean, it may not see it when you're still talking tens of millions of dollars, but from where it started, oh, that is, that is, that's actually kind of cheap. You know, dreams do come true, and a lot of it is, it's just you have to ask. Don't expect people to give it to you.

Starting point is 00:38:14 If you want to be part of the space community, go and do it. You want to be a sociologist? There's tons of, I can, can I do tons of sociologists and stuff? space. They all do analog missions. They go up to Canada. They go to the badlands of South Dakota. They go to Antarctica. There's so much activity going on. And if there's a way that we can put it together, I know it's going to start from this podcast. Okay. We're up for it. So between Chris and marketing and operations and talent, we'll get you to space. That's our promise to you. That's going to close out our episode. Our mission is over. But before we go, I'd like to

Starting point is 00:38:51 give another thanks to Christopher Hiercy for spending the time with us. Chris, how can everyone keep up with OSA consulting and then your nonprofit? Yeah, with OSA consulting, probably the best way to contact me is on LinkedIn. I do have a website, but I mostly just do everything through LinkedIn. But I really would direct your audience to the YouTube channel that we have for SpaceCorp Foundation and our website. Everything's there. We've got a pilot podcast called the space bar show. We've got a pilot animated series, MootCorp series called Stelocysis. We've got fake space commercials, but we also have actual hard research. We have our big books of national space law, which is a compendium of all the country's space laws and regulations. And we have

Starting point is 00:39:38 the online database where you can search that. We've got partnerships. We've got internships. So if you're an undergrad or a law student or a graduate student, master's PhD, you can go to our website, spacecourt foundation.org, found application. And we are an interdisciplinary, multidisciplinary group. Not everyone's a lawyer. Everyone has different parts of this. This is what's so great about space is it's so broad and inclusive. You can't just silo engineers and the lawyers off. And so this is what we do. We promote spatial education, the rule of law, and the rule of law bid is the most important bid here, because none of these activities will be sustainable if we don't agree on the rules moving forward. And, you know, you want to limit conflict

Starting point is 00:40:20 in space. And that's what I spend a lot of my time talking with people about is how do we not fight and get in a war, you know, let alone get arrested by the space cops. So these are all things that students today can think about and check out. There's tons of stuff you can Google. And finally, I guess I'll just end them and say thank you. Aaron, Sheena and Melissa, it's been great being a part of this conversation today and I hope we can have more in the future. Thank you, Chris. And thank you, Melissa and Chino. And for all of you listening, thank you.

Starting point is 00:40:51 Mark my words, there will be hotels on the moon. So if you've been everywhere else, start saving up now. If you want to underwrite us as the first podcast taping in space, we're up for it. We'll do it. Until then, stay grounded and we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold.

Starting point is 00:41:11 and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.

We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Is Outer Space for Everyone?

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.