We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Labubu’s Business Strategies Unboxed

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

In this episode of We Fixed It, You’re Welcome, the panel dives into the surprising global phenomenon of Labubu—the bug-eyed, fang-toothed collectible from Pop Mart that has taken the toy and collectible world by storm. Our guest, Manuel Torres Port, brings decades of experience from Mattel, Nickelodeon,NBC Universal, and more, to unpack what makes Labubu not just a collectible but a cultural force. The panel dissects how scarcity, community, surprise, and user-generated content fuel the brand’s viral success—and where the risks lie. Together, Aaron, Melissa, Qadira, and Manuel explore: • The psychology of scarcity and surprise • The art of building community and identity around a product • Lessons learned from Beanie Babies, Pokémon, and LEGO • Corporate responsibility in marketing to kids • How brands can create momentum without flooding the market The episode culminates in a surprise – a live Labubu unboxing, giving everyone a firsthand experience of the dopamine hit that’s driving billions in sales. Whether you’re a marketer, brand strategist, or just fascinated by how fanbases are made, this episode breaks down the business strategies unboxed behind Labubu’s meteoric rise. Expect insights on: • How scarcity and surprise fuel billion-dollar collectible brands • Why Pop Mart’s experiential retail model is changing the game • What other businesses can learn from Labubu, LEGO, and Beanie Babies • The fine line between hype, community, and corporate responsibility • Strategies to keep momentum without bursting the bubble Key Pull Quote "Don’t just copy the blind box model, make the reveal your own, give fans a world to live in, and a stage for your product to show."– Manuel Torres Port Links Subscribe for more deep dives where we fix big business problems with fresh perspectives. Links: • Website – www.wefixeditpod.com • Follow us on: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/wefixeditpod LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/wefixeditpod YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@WeFixedItPod If you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends! Keep listening to find out how we fix companies and put them back better than we found them. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. Think about the last time you bought something. Did you know what you were getting? If you opened the package and it was totally different from what you expected. Did you scream with joy? Welcome to today's topic, Laboo Boo Boo. If you don't know what Labubos are, pause real quick and ask a kid. Or go to YouTube. Or look on Reddit where people are still trying to make sense. sense of this phenomenon. My favorite thread with 482 comments is called What the F is Labubu, and why the F are grown women my age actually sporting these things. Fair question. We're going to get to that. Now, collectibles aren't anything new, but Labubu has taken the concept to a crazy new level. There are personal fortunes being made to the tune of $27 billion.

There's a thriving knockoff enterprise that's eating into sales. Kids are getting swept up in the whole thing. There's a lot to cover. We are going to get into scarcity tactics. How? to market responsibly to kids, how to keep your companies bubble from bursting, and a lot more. But first, here's a surprise for you. Joining us as our featured guest is Manuel Torres, who has been at the helm of global consumer products and licensing with companies like Mattel, Nickelodeon, NBC Universal, and Pocket Watch. He's now a consultant in high demand. And if there's anyone who knows how to launch a toy brand into the stratosphere and how to do it the right way, it's him. Manuel, we are excited to have you here. Tell us all,

a little bit about yourself. Thank you so much, Sharon, Kadira, Melissa. Pleasure to meet you guys. Thank you for having me in this space. Super, super excited. Yeah, so I originally from Mexico City, so started my career as an accountant, and then I moved into marketing and sales

with various companies like Unilever. As I was walking stores in Mexico, Walmart specifically, I realized that, you know, the massive presence of the toy category, the mass merchants over there. So I was like probably in the wrong industry. So soon after I noticed that kind of situation in stores,

I got a call from a head hunter offering me a job at Mattel as a trade marketing manager. So I started my career transition from, I would say, packaged goods into the world of toys and the world of kids and families through Mattel back in 1994. From there, I transitioned to the U.S. 97 with Mattel. And then I got exposed to the world of storytelling, you know, the unbelievable kind of the world of character creation in the cross of the different studios, the major studios which were licensed source for Mattel back then, every single studio you can imagine from Disney, Warner Brothers Universal Nickelodeon. So then I started realizing soon after that, you know, sometimes it's better to put the inventory risk in the hand of someone else than yourself if you own the IP and the IP. you know, can live longer than usually the manufacturing aspect of it. So I decided to pivot into the licensing world or the IP kind of franchise world,

starting with Warner Brothers, then transition with Nickelodeon, where I spend almost a decade, NDC Universal, as they were acquiring DreamWorks animation, and then some smaller studios like a Zag animation, French animation studio that does beautiful work. and then I have two younger daughters, so I realized that the way they consume content and the type of content they consumed

was far away from kind of Minecraft in the film and TV kind of world where I was trained. And I realized that YouTube, you know, the impact that he was having in kids and gaming. And I was like something that, you know, I need to learn about. So that's when I was fortunate to join PocketWatch

as head of consumer products and have the opportunity to work with a lot of creators, know some of the top 60 creators in the Fits and Family space. And right after I start consulting, so I'm here. Thanks, Manuel. That's quite a background. I'm not going to say you're overqualified to be here, but you're definitely, we'll call you very qualified to be here.

And we're going to talk. We'll put it all into one brand, one product. We'll talk Labibu today. And then you can tell us a little bit more about what you're doing now. Melissa, go ahead. For those of us who can't tell the Labubus from their Lafouou just fill everyone in on what the heck we're talking about today. Manuel, you're the best guest panelist for today's topic.

Oh, thank you. So for our listeners, imagine a bug-eyed forest sprite with fangs. That's Laboooo-Boo-Boo-Boo. But he's not just a toy. He's the breakout star from a whole universe of characters called the Monsters, Dream Gut by this incredibly talented artist from Hong Kong, Kasing Long. Now, the genius who turned this art into a global empire is a company called Pop Mart. Their weapon of choice, the blind box.

It's a $12 mystery. You don't know if you're getting a common figure or a rare chase version that can flip for thousands online. And this is where everyone's mind goes to the 90s. Beanie babies, right? And yes, the playbook feels a little familiar, scarcity, collectibility, that frantic secondary market on eBay. Remember, that's where everybody was going for those Ty Warner Beanie babies. But they're both masters of frenzy. But here's why this is a different.

It's a modern business case study. First, the medium. Beanie babies spread through the playground and the early days of eBay. Laboobu exploded on TikTok and YouTube. The marketing is a firestorm of user-generated unboxing videos. So you see those a lot on TikTok gasps, screams. sheer drama of the reveal. It's free, authentic, utterly viral. We've talked about a lot of viral moments here on this podcast and this is one of them. Second, the product itself. Beanie babies were

simple plush toys. Labibu is a high design art. It has that really authentic artistic cred that gives it a serious cultural cachet. I mean, did you see the custom crystal Labubu's that tennis star Naomi Osaki had at the U.S. Open, and she had little cute names for each of them, and for every match that she won, she had a Lubbubu. It's a fattice symbol. And finally, the business model. Beanie babies were sold everywhere from gift shops to grocery stores, mini-cores. Pop Mart built in the world. They control everything through their own dazzling, experiential stores and vending machines. and for somebody who's in CX, that means a lot to me. They're not just selling a product.

They're selling entry into kind of an exclusive club. So while the psychological hooks of scarcity and timeless POPMART has upgraded the entire system for the digital age, they didn't just create a collectible. They built an ecosystem. So we have a lot to cover. And it's super exciting because Manuel, I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts on this. and I always want to give a nod to Kadira and her playbooks because I'd be really interested in understanding,

is there a playbook for this? I don't know. So what can other businesses learn from it? Absolutely. Manuel, do you want to go first? I absolutely have thoughts, especially from like just a workplace, Melissa, business perspective, as you said,

but I definitely will let our guests go first. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing that I keep learning, you know, throughout all these years, I would say in this kind of space around licensing and IP and IP creation and storytelling is that element of surprise, right, that keeps truly taking everyone completely by surprise. I mean, there's friends, there's things that happen in the side guys, right, that happen in the world, that they're so hard to predict and so hard to follow kind of a pattern or a formula.

I mean, that's our intent. As executives in the space, we're trying to find that. commonality. Hopefully with the advent of AI we're going to be able to have more tools available to understand consumer behavior and being able to anticipate. But anticipation in this type of space around what the concert truly has the potential of becoming a trend is still truly unpredictable. I think there's no such thing as being able to tell this thing will be the next greatest hit, or this thing will transcend from this face to the other. Or this type of consumer will end up connecting with this story better than the other ones.

We do our best, right? And people do the best as marketers, as, you know, as storycrafters, you know. But when reality, you know, hits, it's extraordinarily difficult to predict, you know, the audience, which hopefully they will convert into consumer kind of behavior. So that element of surprise, I think lends itself very well to this type of phenomenals where it's truly difficult to explain. Well, I think what makes them interesting too. So Ty Warner and Beanie Babies went the, you got them at Hallmark stores and you got them at retailers. And maybe eBay became a secondhand.

It was pretty new, I think, at the time, but became a secondhand channel for them. But you knew what you were getting. you looked at what was on the shelf and maybe you stood in line for the rare ones or whatever. But this is more like the Tesla model, right? They handle the manufacturing, the distribution, and then these Pop Mart stores. When I first saw them, I was in a Japanese collectible shop. It was far away and out of the box. And someone said, that's a Lubu.

And I was like, oh, interesting. But then I went to a Pop Mart store, which they have them nearby. And it's an experience. You know, they let like a limited number of people in at a time. It's a lot of kids, but adults too. You go and you, you know, you're there to be very actionable and be excited about what you're about to get. And there's even an eventing machine. So the fact that this is, it's a fully, from a brand or marketing perspective, it's a fully controlled experience.

I think that's part of what makes them a game changer. Yeah, I love. And I think that. Oh, sorry, Kadira. Because I think it is that it's all encompassing. The transaction is the finale. But the main event is the experience. that you just shared, Aaron, right?

So there's kind of the sensory overload. The stores are bright, clean, filled with all these life-sized statues of the characters. It's immersive. You know, people really love that immersive experience. So you're not just buying the product. You're stepping into the Momo planet, so to speak. And then there's that social ritual that we've talked about, you know, the FOMO, the, like, people seeing the boxes and trying to figure out what's in it. And it's the whole, like, you know, the anticipation.

of this and people, I heard, you know, I'd seen this on TikTok, but people bringing in like scales to try to wake boxes to see if they can tell what it is, you know. And you can't really replicate that kind of communal community, you know, excitement online and all of the, you know, the clicks, everybody's looking and watching and kind of feeling in that moment. And then I think the vending machines is an interesting thing because the standalone vending machines are also kind of genius. marketing perspective, because they're 24-7, right? And it's impulse convenience. It's like that hit a dopamine. You get right now because people always want these things. And it's, you know, it's kind of their retail stores answer to one-click buy, right? Just do it. Totally. And it's

interesting that, you know, I think back to other products that are, for lack of a better word, but fetish, fetishistic, right? So you had like the tickle me Elmo or Cabbage Patch Kids or something. where there is a scarcity to it. But in this case, the true value or the consumer value or the moment of enjoyment happens after the purchase, right? So I'm Emmanuel. Like, how do you create that type of momentum for something that it's not just that I, okay, I got it, I own it.

Now the real experience happens. How do you create that for a consumer? Well, back to that element of surprise, which is so powerful, you know, in humans, right? I mean, I think that we all in some way love to be surprised and that brings I would say like some sort of like adrenaline rush in terms of the expectation. That moment that you're expecting when you're open something, right? Opening something. So think when we were kids, right, and you were waiting for Christmas and expecting to see

what was under the tree, right? What would Santa drop or something? What's ultimately inside of it, right? We had a list, but what's truly in it? So that element of expectation and surprise, I think makes crowds or makes group of people like rally around something. And sharing that moment, I think is very, very powerful. So what we've seen through social, what we've seen with the advent of like YouTube

is that once those moments start becoming viral and start becoming shareable, we saw a whole industry changing, right? Because unboxing has been there for a long, long time. And it has been manifested in many, many different ways. But now it's kind of like a cultural moment. and certain brands, they're starting to do it better than others, I would say. So making sure that that packaging, you know, which in the past, it used to be just like a container. It used to be, you know, just holding what was in it.

But if you think about it now, isn't the creative mindset that it would be hand-create, you know, making those packages, it's really unbelievable. If you walk into different categories of product, different kinds of stores, you will see that it's, you know, packaging is almost like staging, right? It's like it's creating a stage for a brand. And that's, I think, one of the things that companies are starting to realize that it's a very important investment. It's a very important kind of element that will begin that journey of connection with a brand and a consumer. So, yes, you know, if you think about brands like LOL, for example, or mini brands, you know, that kind of like peeling almost like an onion and layer by layer your style like discovering part of the product or elements. And you're not even inside of there, right? It's like a matrushka, like those Russian dolls that you go one by one and you start, you know, opening one and then realizing there's even more inside.

So I guess, you know, what Pobmart, I think, when they took over the license of Labou, what they did very, very well was bringing that excitement, you know, that experience to retail. What some people call it like retail attainment, right, which is truly like making something special out of and honoring the time you're spending as a consumer walking into their stores, right? So from the moment you walk in, right, to the moment you take the product, you bring it home, and then you start, you know, building that exciting moment of what could it be there? And having some elements, some clues that what might be in there might be something that you are exposed to or something completely surprising, something that only you might have. So element of scarcity, the element of surprise, you know, the staging of a really good, like, housing for that product, it becomes like a 360 experience, right? Yeah.

Yeah. But I think when you talk about packaging and intentionality behind it and making the unboxing part of the experience, you know, Apple's always kind of the gold standard for things like that. where it's very minimalistic, but you also get an excitement as you know, look like with a LOL surprise you were talking about, you start to peel back the layers. But the difference here is, you know, you open your iPhone box. You don't, you're not going into wondering, am I going to get a iPhone 15 limited edition or am I going to get a seven? You know, like, so how do you, you know, and you're going to get maybe some relative duds

or repeats or things like, so how do you keep propel the consumer or. excitement on something where scarcity is so baked into the tactics behind all this. Yes, I think, you know, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead, man. Well, please finish your thought and then I'll jump in. No, to your point about scarcity, I think scarcity and keeping the things going, I think it's, you know, you almost like create a puzzle in the consumer mind and you leave some of those pieces like not so obvious.

and always like knowing that there's something they're like missing, that you're not always completing that puzzle and the puzzle is like an ongoing experience, right? So once you start like putting out certain things that are cues to the life kind of, you know, the moment of the brand, what it's having, I think you start like communicating or sending a message

that this is just a moment in time and there's more to the expected in the future. And that's where, you know, like, you know, collaboration drops might come to work, right? Where you see like a Coca-Cola or a brand collaboration with, you know, that might be just like, you know, certain Alinited Edition. It might be just a few items that you might find in certain stores. So the element of, you know, of almost like providing certain cues and unresolved mysteries, keeps, I think, the storytelling going and that fandom, like, always waiting to see what's coming next. And, you know, in the hopes of definitely that extending or expanding the life cycle of the brand.

So it's always very, very important to keep your, I would say, your events somewhat like limited. Like, always leave. If the markets once X, I think you have to provide, you know, some sort of scarcity, element attached to it. Never go with the instinct of overflowing the market, over satisfying a consumer or retail demand, or what they're asking you to give. Always keeping it short.

So I think that's part of the secret of keeping brands going for a longer period of time, rather than just being an explosive thought or moment, and then from there, like, doling down. Sorry, Kandira. No, this is a very good thing. great. I'm taking this all in. You probably, you know, see me nodding here on camera. I think the thing that I'm hearing is I'm listening to all of you talking and as I've been thinking about

Labuobu is this theme of like belonging, right? And Melissa talked about, you know, a case study. I think I would tack on like it's also this case study in identity and community and psychology, right? Because from day one, you know, Labu fans have felt part of this like global tried, if you will. And there's like something really powerful happening there. And yes, Melissa and Erin, you hear me talk a lot about playbooks. And I would say like from a company perspective, you know, there's a playbook here to create around culture. And I think that the takeaway is don't just build teams or team structures, which we hear a lot of just in the court, like that's the corporate speak. Because I think the teen, team structure still has a little bit about us

versus them, even internally, right? And like when we look at Lubu, again, even from a global perspective, a remote perspective, we're not all in this physical geographical space together. The focus there is really on building this community. It's building this tribe. It's building, as you all have talked about, like, this emotional reward. And so again, I think from like a, from a company standpoint of other companies are kind of watching and looking and listening, you know, there's some themes here to kind of integrate if you're looking at how do we kind of leverage what Labouou has done. and leverage that either in our products,

leverage that in our storytelling, leverage that internally as a part of our corporate culture. I think, you know, there's things like rituals, there's things like shared language, there's things like digital hangout, right? We often hear about companies using Slack, for example, as, you know, a way to kind of communicate faster than email. But what if in kind of, you know, creating this community,

you know, you're using it for things like meme sharing, inside appropriate, you know, corporate jokes, company slang, virtual events, right? You know, how do you create kind of maybe like even a digital clubhouse where people are kind of co-creating and celebrating together? Because I think right now more than ever, there's this conversation around how do we build community and there's, you know, kind of this, you know,

we're seeing more companies kind of mandate and kind of return to office. And one of the reasons you'll hear is like, you know, in-person collaboration and team building. but like I'll shout from the rooftops. Like just because people sit in a physical space together doesn't mean you're building cultural community. And I think Laboubu is a great example of that. Again, when you're focusing on the shared identity,

shared community, shared experience, regardless of where we sit geographically, you know, again, we can even be in different countries. There's some sort of belonging in identity in that experience. So I think there's something that other companies can be tapping into, again, whether they're looking at that from a product, service perspective or internal culture perspective. I think there are

flights to. I mean, I honestly do because I think, and I'm kind of stepping into Aaron and maybe manual space a little bit here talking about branding and marketing. But we've talked about this a lot. So I love when we

talked about my favorite, Taylor Swift, and we talked about the Easter eggs that she drops and she does that years ago, right? So like she just dropped some yesterday for her, you know, she has a week until her release. And people are commenting that she's wearing a ring that she wore in a music video two years ago, right? And they're like, oh, my God, this is what that meant when she in that video and blah, blah, blah, whatever. And I feel like

there is somewhat of a playbook because it's a change in the way that we're marketing. So I would say that, you know, the old model was like a big and Aaron, you could speak to this more, but big quarterly marketing campaign, you know, huge buildup, big launch, then kind of a lull, kind of waiting for how did it work, how did it work? But like Pop Mart strategy shows us that there's this constant need and manual touched upon this of cadence of drops, right? Because it's not about one big moment. It's about scarcity. It's about creating this pulse of limited opportunities. So FOMO if I don't get in on it, right? You know, and so it's interesting going from like these bigger senses of campaigns to these rhythms of scarcity, these rhythms of consistency and experiences. And from an operational

perspective, that is challenging because you're going to have to continue on top of these things and the distribution network and everything like that. But at the same time, having this cadence of drops as a strategy versus having big launch. every 18 months or every every other quarter is actually, you know, keeps the consistency within the team. And to, to, to your point, it all starts from the inside, right? So it starts from being proud of having this like artistic viral moment and knowing that it's more than that. It's more than that. It's its entire experience. So I think there's a lot to be learned from how this is going versus how you might, you know, in the comparison state of Labouboo versus a Beanie baby,

right, where the secondary was really where everybody was getting frenzy that, right? Going on eBay and trying to get them all, right? But now I think this is more about like how do they continue to enhance that overall client experience. Right. Well, in marketing, we have a term that we might all be familiar with, but it's UGC or user-generated content. And for some brands, it's an afterthought or a hope. Like, I hope when we put this out and we say things a certain way, our consumers, our target audience is going to start to reflect that back to us and say the things that we're saying and own it for themselves. And if we do, that's a win. For Laboubu, that's the entirety of their strategy is letting users dictate the experience and play that out

for other users and you see Labibu unboxing videos that have millions of views and that is, it's perpetuating, you know, the demand and the excitement behind this product. Yeah, go ahead, Manuel. And then I want to touch on something Kadira said too. Also to what Melissa mentioned now, you know, and you want to like set a difference between kind of like you want to call it a Binibati model and kind of Labubu one. The fact that Labubu, you know, it's basically, a brand that is licensed by Popmart.

And Popmart has their own stores, right? So that ecosystem that they created allows you to somewhat like plan better, plan better your drops. You have to somehow like plan your traffic. The traffic you're going to be getting at stores at a certain moment on time.

So in a way you have a little bit more of a control of the, you know, the supply, at least hoping for a control as well under demand, which is still a little bit unpredictable. But having that space, I think it gives you a different kind of blueprint to work with. When you're like Dini Davis, which was dependent on third-party distribution, basically the majority of the product is placed in third-party stores, right? So there's less control over the output and almost like letting unleash kind of like demand to whatever retail is doing.

and each one of the different clients, each one of different chains might have a different way of promoting and setting up, you know, the product and the brand presentation. So I think that those two models are deferred from that in a way. But at the end of the day is, you know, how do you keep them regardless of what you have most control with? How do you have them continue to show up, right? How do you have them continue to engage with the brand and how do you continue that conversation like going, right?

One of the elements that you're going to put out there that will help your brand almost, almost like unleashing control of your brand if I'm allowed to say. So that way the fans, right, will become like at the beginning more of a spectator, they become like an active component of the livelihood of your brand. and that fine-tuning, that pulling and releasing, I think that become a little bit of the, you know, the marketing finesse on which you're going to keep them engaged, right? So the different type of activations, the different type of drops, how to tell or how to let them know that something is going to happen, etc., etc.

All these things around the anticipation and that virality moment, those become truly a little bit more or less control. as you have a stronger, I would say, hand on your retail outlet possibilities. Yeah, and that's the challenge there, I think, is the underlying message is when you put something up and you open it for the camera and it's ultra rare. The underlying connotation is, I have this and you don't. Look what I have and you don't have it, right? And there's privilege there.

And Kadira, I wanted to go back to what you were saying. I wrote down, and I could love it, identity, community, psychology, and building a tribe of people that have something centralized and common. In this case, it's L'Avub. And the price of entry to that tribe is a purchase, right? You make, you buy one and you're in, but there's also a hierarchy. So you've got one, but it's a, what would I call, Lafoufoo? What I learned is, it's called Lafoufou a knockoff. So yeah, kids can be cruel, right? Yeah, you have one, but it's a fake. You bought it at the gas station. Or you have one, but it's common. So, yes, it's a tribe, but it's a tribe. but it's a tribe with rules.

And is it fair? Let's be real. Our target market is kids. There's adult collectors too, but kids talk about the stuff and compare and I have this and you don't. Is it fair to be doing these types of scarcity tactics and community hierarchies to an audience of kids? I think obviously there's, you know, there's more, I would say, there's much more

control and scrutiny around what type of things are done in order to incentivize kind of lower end of the demographic spectrum kind of interest around a brand. And, you know, there's different provisions, you know, through digital marketing and different mediums where that are highly, highly regulated. But the one thing that it's really hard to control is kind of that virality, right? That as we are all exposed to different kinds of medium and the phone, as we all know, has become almost like an extension of our body and extension of our hand, regardless of the age. There's so many ways of like sharing stories, sharing, you know, fandom, sharing moments, sharing exciting things that happen out there.

That it's truly out of control. I mean, it's almost like something that it's been unleashed. And now corralling all those forms of engaging, it's very, very hard for a brand. So almost you're assuming that as soon as you have something out there, you know, people are going to start talking about it. People are going to start socializing about it. people are going to start, you know, kind of coming closer or getting closer to people that have the same type of feelings around the brand or around an experience. And that's how communities are built.

So, you know, what in the past, like in the 90s, back to the example of Vinnie Babies, would take like really, really long for people to start realizing that there were these elements, you know, these elements in common that they would have with other people collecting that type of product. it would take longer to realize that that was the, that was happening. In this day and age, it's the media. It's almost if something's happening this weekend, it'll become a trend, you know, probably the same day or a few hours after. So the velocity in which things are happening and in which, you know, brands are

connecting with audiences or consumers and how story is revealed, it's a very, very different pace, right? So control and limitation and regulation, although, you know, obviously there's more and more concern about, you know, elements that could become addictions, closely to addictions, etc. I think in reality, and from a very pragmatic standpoint, having control of how an audience, how consumers, how people are going to react, it's truly, I would say, a huge enigma, and we're far from really, are, you know, controlling it in a meaningful way. But companies know that we as consumers can fall into addictive behavior. We swipe endlessly on social feeds to get to the next one and the next one,

but they don't say you're done for the day. They just keep giving it to you. You know, the algorithm just gives you another one. When you play Candy Crush, you get those dopamine hits, and then you're onto the next level, and there's infinite levels. You can keep going. Pokemon, you have to catch all of them. You don't catch five and you're done.

You win. You catch all of them. And there's, you know, I would expect there's infinite, you know, hundreds of thousands of Pokemon. So is Pop Mart marketing these responsibly to children and people that collect with the scarcity tactics and the coveting user generated tactics of look what I got. You got to get in on this. Is it being done responsibly or is there, are they playing into our fallacies as people? or weaknesses these people. I think that the issue is the change of, Emmanuel, you brought this up.

I think this is really a true statement is that customers today, it's not just a niche trend for collectibles, it's a consumer's expectation, whether it's a child or an adult. The demand for newness now-nowness, I would even call it, right, like immediate gratification is relentless. So this is the new marketplace. And so businesses that thrive aren't just reacting to it. They're trying to build the systems designed to thrive within it. So, Manuel, to your point, there's a lot of uncontrollables out there, right? But the controllables are that you can create scarcity.

You can create a very amazing experience. You can create these content drips and drops, right? And so I agree with you, Erin, there is some corporate responsibility about what you're doing to the psyche of the individual. But at the same time, that is what is fuel for every business out there, every, you know, not just businesses, but every, you know, kind of experience that you have out there. It's just, it's not just about that transaction. Like I said, it's the theater of it all, right? So I do think that, you know, Pop Mart and Labubu have a really, you know, that what they're trying to do is control the things they can control, right? So they're going to continue to fuel the hype engine.

And I don't know that they're, you know, that's not all them, right? That's actually the consumer there. But they're really going to have to acknowledge the complexity of the business. So the business that they're in right now, this controlled randomization, right? So like, you know, they've got to really have this really opaque production because like most companies they do, you know, 10,000 widgets a day or whatever. You know, they're doing, you know, 144 special widgets and they have to put them, you know, and somebody's creating them and knows about them. So the secrecy and the control of the information, you know, what kind of NDAs are they signing, right? And then distributing those to the Pop Mart, you know, stores.

Because think about it, like if all of the special ones were going to only three stores in the world, that would suck, right? Like you're going in, you know, so they've got to have a randomizer to really kind of control that. And like you said, consumers are smart. they're bringing in little scales and trying to weigh it and trying to shake the boxes and try to figure out if it's a special one. So there's this whole thing around, you know, how do you do that and how do you create like anti- hoarding measures? Like I'm sure that they're doing some of that because we've seen that when we have these viral things happen and we create a secondary market. You have people who go in, box to eat go in and like, you know, Nike has this problem.

when they have a shoe drop that there'll be, you know, that people will, bots will, you know, start running it and they'll buy the whole thing. And then all of a sudden you see these shoes that haven't even been released in stores available on this black market. So it is, it is a business problem. And I'm not denying that there's responsibility about how you market. But at the same time, you know, we as individuals, have to take some responsibility that we create that hype.

So, you know, I'm not denying that they have something to do with it, but at the same time, it's very hard to stop it when it's what it is at what scale. And I mean, Manuel, you've been in the toy industry for so long. I mean, they're creating these things. And, you know, there's all different kinds of things that people could say about, you know, what they're doing and who they're, who they're, they're actually servicing. I think, too, it's, you know, I think, you know, Melissa, you've mentioned just around,

you know, corporate responsibility. And I haven't peaked lately on, like, where Laboooooooo is in terms of, like, their social impact efforts and things like this. But I absolutely think, you know, they, there is this responsibility around balancing kind of this joy and accomplishment that the consumer and, you know, kids or teens, for example, are experiencing with, you know, getting their hands on their favorite Laboo-Boo or, you know, the surprise element, and then balancing it with, you know, as you said, kind of that, that responsibility of like, you know, the hoarding or, you know, kind of this addictive behavior

or, you know, when things kind of spiral out of control. I think, you know, there's a couple of things, right? Like, if I were Labu-Boo, I would be thinking about, you know, if our social impact or social responsibility, there might be an opportunity for how we might reach kids that obviously otherwise might not have access. Is there a gamification component? Is there a component, you know, that's baked into, you know, social media that more folks might have opportunities to access? Is there something around responsible use, right? We hear that term a lot. Use responsible innovation. I think there's opportunities for them to continue to build this, you know, they're in business to make money. There's nothing wrong with that.

And so I think there's an opportunity to continue to build out the Lubu brand and the craze and that surprise and delight. And there's an opportunity for them, especially as they think about being socially responsible or their social impact initiatives to think about what responsible use might be. And it could just be education, right? I don't want to say just like minimizing it, but it could be education for the person buying it. Maybe it's the parent who's giving them the dollars or, you know, whatever currency to make the purchase. So I think that they absolutely can balance like, again, this is a really good example of like how you're going to balance making money for the company, but also being responsible to the communities that you serve. And they, you know, again, the playbooks are out there, you know, absolutely for, you know, products that, you know, people have questioned, you know, is this really responsible? Are we showing up in a responsible way? Is there a negative component to it? And I always say when it comes to developing what, that strategy or approach might be, the answer is in the product itself. So I'll stop there. So thank you, Kadira. And so Manuel, let's, you know, for a product and a company that's built on the

fickleness of consumers and young consumers and short attention spans. And I'm understanding the fourth wave that's out now isn't selling quite as well. So how do you keep up the momentum going and how do you keep the bubble from bursting on something that's built on scarcity and, you know, in user self-perpetuation by users. Are they going to be around in five, ten years? Is this, you know, are they going to write it until it falls apart? Or is this built to last? I think its supply is truly unleashed.

And the factory keeps like producing in the millions and millions of items and skews and making it like super accessible around the world. I think that's when you start losing that element of scarcity. And scarcity, that's it. element is so powerful. That keeps the brand like kind of going. So I think that's a very complicated question more so when you, when your company has turned into an IPO and you are, you know, in the hands of, you know, public investors. Think along the lines of what makes Lego still a very relevant brand in the space, right? What makes it like so, you know, being able to remain so strong

year out throughout time. And I think part of it is that on the one end, it's not a public company, so they don't have to make decisions on a quarterly basis that might compromise the strength for the health of the brand. And second, they are

in absolute control of their supply. So there are certain things that they rather keep short. So the secondary market remains high, you know, the element of, you know, how could I miss this product or you know I didn't buy it when I saw it for the first time and now it's gone and it will never come back.

So those type of things are still like very, very powerful from a branding standpoint. And I think they're directly related to the longevity of the brand and how much you can stretch the life cycle of excitement around the brand. So being able to manage that supply, being able to control. somehow the flow of goods and somehow, you know, what consumers are going to be able to see. So you don't saturate that experience. I think it's critical for the health of, you know, any kind of brand, right? I'm glad you brought up Lego because I think that's a great example of something, Aaron, where they really focused on their customer persona as well.

So Lego, a decade ago, was going through some real bankruptcy discussions. They weren't doing well. And then there's been this resurgence of Lego. And they've become an experience, right? Now it's an experience. You can go to Legoland. You can go to Lego's physical stores and buy just the yellow blocks, if that's what you want. They have had these partnerships with, and this is something that Labuibu could do as well,

with other artists. So they've had the partnerships with Harry Potter, with Star Wars, with those types of big types of cultural events and created products along that line. But most importantly, I think they realize that there's this nostalgia, right? So I used to use, I built Legos and I'm very old. And, you know, my kids and all of those kinds of things. And so they brought that nostalgia back by focusing on the people that grew up with Legos and saying, oh, now we have adult Legos. So now they have, I mean, I don't know if you guys have seen it, but like all of the beautiful floral arrangements and, you know, the cactus and, you know, the cactus, you know, all you know, all those things. Like, I, I love it, you know. And now my kids who are in their 30s, you know,

20s and 30s are asking for Legos for Christmas because they want those in there to build them in their, you know, bonsai trees, whatever it might be. And so I feel like that kind of shift in thought of like now they're making it so it's not just, you know, when my kids, they like to build, like in their own mind things, create in their own minds. Lego also now has, you know, these really very expensive, massive, you know, you can buy them the milles, you know, you can buy them Millennium Balkan, and it will take you weeks to put it together, and people display them, right? They have rooms full of Legos, right, that are for display, not for play, so to speak. So I think that, like, that's the idea around collectibles and the idea around what can Labuibu do.

I think the partnerships, right, and finding other cultural intersections where they could, they could make that somewhat defining, creating that sense of scarcity, manual. that you talked about, like that false sense of scarcity by not flooding the market with too much and continuing to do the drop and actually embracing the secondary market, you know, which I think they're going to have to do. They probably already have done. But, you know, allowing for that hype engine fuel to just continue to go because they still know that the primary experience in the store with the community and the psyche is really the most important one. So they'll constantly try to feed into that.

But like, I agree that if they flood the market with Lubbubus, you're not going to see that last very long. It probably will go for the white side. And I think, too, I mean, you know, just building on that, I think the other thing that they should be doing, obviously, you know, casing lung is someone that I think fans have connected with as well, right? like folks are connected to him as well behind the brand. And so obviously continuing to let him kind of go and do his thing. But I think beyond that, as the company thinks about innovating and what's next, who else in that company, who else within that brand should be at that table innovating and helping to think up new ideas and helping to think up new angles and who's in touch

and who might also be out there like having this cultural connection with their fans and their audience. I think that absolutely is going to be something that the company can leverage to say, okay, who's going to take us, take us from, this was a cultural phenomenon that died within, you know, a couple of years to like, hey, we could actually be around for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years. I think Lego is a great example of that because they continue to tap into their innovators and artists and creatives around the table. So, you know, providing that visibility for folks within the company, providing that freedom for folks to kind of, you know, try. and ideate and fail. Like, that's where you're going to get those new and next ideas, I think. And of course, I'm a champion for, like, culture and people, but you're only as strong as your people within the company. And so, again, building off of what Lung has been able to do. But again, who else is he mentoring?

Who else is he bringing up? And who else is kind of coming up in the company that has your next best idea as well. Also, I hate to say it because I'm loving this conversation. Oh, go ahead. Oh, sorry. Not just like a wrapping up. One more thought. Rapping up a little bit.

But, you know, I think, you know, keeping a brand aspirational is always like something. It sounds obvious, but I think it's still extraordinarily important. I think part of the magic of Pop Mart and Labou is that truly, you know, adults start with that trend. It wasn't kids necessarily. So it's still very relevant with adults. I think both collaborations and what has happened organically, like what happened with Dista from Black Pink. You know, it was truly, it seems to be like an organic campaign if you want to call it.

And what happened with Naomi, right, Osaka. So all of those, I think keep it aspirational for everyone, for younger kids, you know, even for other adults. So keeping it aspirational, I think it's extraordinarily important. And also, you know, part of the magic I'm going back. to some of the things we discussed earlier, but owning that reveal, right? If you own the reveal,

you kind of are able to somewhat like own the demand curve, right? So how do you reveal, you know, that brand? How do you put it out there and how do you continue to pulse it? I think that Melissa mentioned earlier as well in terms of, you know, brands that need to do a better job,

like pulsing, right? Rather than just having these moments, these elicit moments that are, you know, very identifiable, you know, like bigger franchises that depend on movie releases or a new TV series or they depend on a very specific moment in time when this event will happen and that's where they rally the troops. So I think being able for brands like this to pulse the brand throughout, you know, a given year, by the way, when you own retail, you have to really pay close attention to those, you know, that specific element because you want traffic. in your stores, not only in the holiday season, but you want to, you know, 52 weeks of the year, right? So you got to plan accordingly on how those drops will happen and pulsing it.

And again, I would love to insist along the lines of, like, packaging. Packaging is truly a stage for a brand, right? Packaging is so important. So keeping and maintaining and investing on, you know, building the most exciting packaging kind of like reveal moments. And what is the next gen of that? the next type of experience, I think it's all combined

and it builds for the brand and with the brand. So those I think, you know, elements that keep it going. Like it a lot. All right. Well, like I said, we've got to fix this.

It's true to our show. We've got to fix something. So in this case, it's like the rules of engagement. So for Lubbubu, what I'm getting is if they use their platform, they obviously have a rabid fan

base, but do they use it to build a culture of inclusivity and not exclusivity? And that could involve just teaching people how to play within their ecosystem and teaching people that any form of cultural buy-in is acceptable. And maybe that's even if you don't buy one or maybe there's pathways to get one if you don't have one. And maybe there's more balanced access. But you don't want to compromise the scarcity because your company's built on scarcity. So if you create an overabundance, insaturate the market and overflood, that's contrary to what your company's built on, and you'll probably go away within the year. So keep the scarcity tactic up. If you're going to be selling the experience as so much of your value proposition, make sure you make that experience

the best it could possibly be. That includes the packaging. That includes the moment of unboxing and everything that goes around it. You're selling that, a addition to whatever is inside that package. Reach out to other artists or other brands and look at ways of meaningful collaboration and keep the pulse of your audience and make sure you keep checking in and make sure that what you're putting out is in line with what your audience wants from you. If you do that, then I think maybe Libu's built to last and we'll be seeing them for the, you know, good foreseeable future. Kadira, did we fix the situation? I think we've got a solid start here. I think we've got the solid start of a good playbook that companies absolutely should be picking up

and we've given Lubu some good next steps as well. You know, I would tack on, again, looking for those future innovators in the company to take you into the next five, ten years of the product. And I really like, Aaron, how you, you know, woven, like, again, just that responsible innovation or responsible use. Again, even if it's, if it's, air quotes, just education, which can go a long way. So, yeah, absolutely. Okay, good. Melissa? I would agree. I think we're on the right path. I do think that greed is not good in this scenario, because I think that greed could be their downfall if they wanted to more profits, more money,

you know, more stores. I think that that controlled scarcity is the important factor of Lubu. I think that if they can continue to embrace the viral aspect of the marketing, the the experience. That will be wonderful. I love the idea of aligning with great partners and other artists and other, you know, for them to grow in that area. But I do think that they have this really unique model and that they're really kind of leaning into it right now. And I would say that they need to, again, make sure that their operations are very controlled. Make sure that they are living and aligning with that culture and with that business strategy that they've started out with and with that artist's vision because, you know, I think this is what makes it so remarkable

as well as so unique. Love it, Melissa. Manuel, did we fix this situation? I think it was somewhat, you know, I think, you know, if you're a brand leader like listening to us, I would suggest not to copy the blind box, the blind box model. right? It's kind of copying the system, right? Make a reveal like really ownable. Give fans a world to live in, right? And a stage for your product to show. So that for me, I think it's extraordinarily important. And hopefully that will convert, you know, hype into something healthy from a P&L standpoint. Okay. So we've given Lobo a lot to think about.

Now, before we wrap up, I've got a surprise. for all of us. I was able to work some connections, and I have, I'll hold it up, but if you're listening, I've got a Luboo. Nice. I figure we should know what this feels like. You know, let's all do this together so that we, you know, I've never opened one. Have any of you opened a Lubu? No. Yeah? Okay. Well, let's do this together so we can explain it what's happening. So it's a box. It's got a little tab across the top. This is from, if you're listening, it's to, it's from big into energy collection, which probably means something to some people, a lot of people. I'm going to open the tab up and then let's do this together. Let's inbox. So here comes the

flap. And we're going to see what we get. Okay, there's a bag inside. It's got a little, it says big into energy. It feels kind of nice. It's like a nice texture to it. It's got like a rainbow-ish ribbon at the top or pole string. And it's got a and it's got a a picture of the outline of a booboo. And here we go. I guess this is the moment of the moment of truth. Is that? Very cute.

It's cute. Yeah. Some people, it's debatable. Some people say cute. Some people say not. But if, if you're listening, so it's got this nice little ring on it. It's yellow. It's metal.

It says pop mart. It says pop mart on the tag that it's attached to. And this one, It's kind of a, it's like a Sherbert color. So it's, I'd call it like a pink and orange. And that means it's a loyalty. We got a loyalty to Lubu. Very cool.

Very cool. All right. So we all. I believe it's from the third wave, right? I think that one of fraud. So where are you going to hang it from, Aaron? I think you're right. We'll figure that part out later.

So now we all got the dopamine rush from opening one. And, you know, is it a rare, ultra rare? You'll have to tell us. we don't know. All right. Well, thank you, everyone. Thank you, Manuel. Well, first off, thanks, Melissa, for this great episode. And thank you for helping everyone navigate this crazy topic. And Manuel, thank you. You're truly one of one. So thank you for joining us. Tell us, how can people find you? How can companies get more of you? They can DMA, you know, send me a message over LinkedIn at Manuel Torresport. I'll be glad

to answer and get back to you. Thank you so much. Fantastic. Thank you. And for those of you listening, make sure to go back and collect every episode of our podcast, even the rare early ones. Season two, which we're in now, is on a role. We're going to keep making more surprises for you. And we will see you next time. Thank you. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.