We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Netflix's Live Streaming Gamble

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

In this episode of "We Fixed It. You're Welcome," the panel tackles Netflix's foray into live streaming events. They discuss the challenges and opportunities presented by this strategic shift, including technical hurdles, potential pricing models, and the impact on Netflix's brand ethos. The conversation covers the financial implications, customer expectations, and the need for operational excellence in delivering live content. The panel explores ideas like tiered subscriptions, microtransactions, and expanding into diverse live programming. They ultimately conclude that while there are significant obstacles to overcome, live events could be a valuable addition to Netflix's offerings, potentially driving subscriber growth and engagement in an increasingly competitive streaming landscape.Netflix's Strategic Shifts Analysis of Netflix's pivot to streaming and content production Exploration of the company's move into live events Technical Challenges of Live Streaming Examination of Netflix's infrastructure and content delivery network Discussion of bandwidth and scaling issues for live events Financial Considerations Peter Braunz's insights on Netflix's financial performance and valuation Analysis of the costs associated with live events and potential returns Customer Experience and Expectations Debate on the alignment of live events with Netflix's core value proposition Consideration of customer expectations and potential friction points Monetization Strategies Exploration of subscription models and potential micro-transactions Discussion on maintaining Netflix's ethos while introducing new revenue streams Talent and Technical Capabilities Suggestions for Netflix to acquire necessary talent for live streaming Emphasis on the need for scalable infrastructure and real-time monitoring Future of Live Programming on Netflix Speculation on potential types of live content beyond major events Discussion of international markets and diverse content offerings Pricing Strategies and Subscriber Tiers Debate on introducing new subscription tiers or pay-per-view options Consideration of pricing strategies for different types of live content Conclusion and Recommendations Group consensus on Netflix continuing to explore live streaming Emphasis on overcoming technical challenges and strategic implementation __________________ Disclaimer: A quick disclaimer. We are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice or anything that would get us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions everyone's thinking. Have an engaging conversation and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you're welcome. All trademarks, IP and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners. Music by Milo W.Produced by Straight Forward Media Group See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

we fixed it, you're welcome. Here's what's going to happen. We'll be taking a deep dive into a well-known company that has something happening right now, a challenge or opportunity, and we'll tear into it from different sides. Everything's on the table. We'll put ourselves in charge. Bitter stakes are our sticks. At the end of the episode, we'll critique ourselves and tell you how we think we did. If we fixed it, you're welcome. Let's do our real quick intro. Go for it, Melissa Eaton. Hi, everyone. I'm Melissa Eaton, and I have expertise in customer experience, innovation, operational excellence, and look forward to applying it to the topic of the day. Hi, everyone. I'm Chino, founder and CEO of Light Cappuccino, a workplace and talent consultancy group.

I'm Peter Braun's giving you a finance and the technology take on the topics at hand. And I'm Aaron Woff. I've got a career in marketing, and I'll be speaking to you from a marketing perspective. Before we start, our quick disclaimer, we're going into this somewhat cold. Nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that we get any of us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions that everyone's thinking about, have an engaging conversation with each other, and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners.

So, Gino, today you're bringing us here to talk about Netflix. Before we do, are there any stories about Netflix from the group when we first heard about it, or what we thought about it in the early days? I remember when Netflix was first starting out. They were kind of competing with the red boxes of the world as a direct DVD over postal mail. Very interesting to see how they've evolved as a company and the path that Reed Hastings has had them on. Really, really, really impressive that they had pivoted in the latter half of the 2010s to be a streaming giant. So I think it's a great company.

and it's definitely worth looking at and learning from. I'm excited to dig into this topic because, to Peter's point, the transformational initiatives that Netflix has undertaken have been really remarkable and very something that is storied within all industries. But I was a customer of the live streaming event, and I actually watched the fight and had a lot of complaints on my own side. So I'd love to hear what everyone's take is on this. Yeah, and I have a fun antidote to share about Netflix.

I remember early days kind of being a little resistant because I was deep in school, and I thought if I get Netflix, I won't be able to study, which is true. So I did it. I joined Netflix after I graduated. And I remember my mom just saying, this will never take over cable. And, you know, a couple, a lot of years later, It absolutely has. So it's been really cool to see kind of that evolution of Netflix and kind of that next phase as they've made a name as a giant and kind of what's going to happen there.

So in today's episode, what we'll be tackling is should Netflix stay away from live events? As the streaming giant explores ventures beyond its traditional on-demand content, they've started to dabble into the world of celebrity boxes. some exclusive events, hoping to do an NFL halftime show. And so because of some recent technical difficulties during Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson's boxing match and other live events, people are wondering whether or not they should do that. And I think today's episode would be a great time to explore if it's something they should or shouldn't do. No, well, Netflix has always been one for innovation. We jumped into it.

And they started as a direct DVD home mailer service. And I remember getting frustrated at the beginning when they went to, not that they were going into streaming, which is kind of a new concept, video through the internet was not. At the beginning, the infrastructure wasn't there to support it. But when they split off into two separate subscription services, I thought, oh, they're really trying to milk it, right?

Trying to get the most of they can under their customers. But of course, as we know, they didn't continue this last year. They discontinued their for good reason. But they've been known for saying this is what the future looks like. We're going to take you there now and hop on board. So I don't know. It's streaming the next version of that, this live stream. I do think that it's an interesting idea.

I think that one of the things is to think about the customers of Netflix today. and, you know, their core value proposition is really been convenience and flexibility. And so it's really been all about aligning that with this on-demand model, which introducing live events causes some friction to that in the sense that people want to control when they can view things, right? And that that's one of the great things about Netflix is that you can download a bunch of episodes of your favorite show and then watch it on the airplane. and you can do it wherever you want. I do believe that the live streaming, you know, is really kind of, you know, I try not to have that bias of like, you know, they should stay in their lane because

Netflix has shown that staying in your lane can be, you know, you could be the next blockbuster and be gone, right? So they were able to kind of transform. But the question really is around the technical reliability and operational ability to actually execute on live streaming, which is a different type of platform than actually what they've been doing today in their sponsorship and productions of like their, you know, the movies and things like that. So I think that they've got a lot to think about. I know that they were kind of dabbling in it, but, you know, when you dabble and you don't do it well, you've, you know, eroded people's

trust in your ability to do that. And they have a huge platform coming up. on Christmas Day with the football games and Beyonce at a half time. And so I think that there's going to be a lot of questions about whether they're going to be able to overcome that. And then Peter, I'd love to hear your perspective from a financial perspective is like, how do they monetize this? And how do they use that engagement to their, because they're on a subscription right now. And like when you look at other live streaming platforms, the top ones like Twitch, you know, and YouTube live streaming and TikTok, you know, there's, you're able to kind of interact with each other and you pay for things. And it's not like Starbucks is advertising in the middle of it and you can stop the live stream. Right.

So thoughts. Yeah. I think from a financial perspective, Netflix is doing a phenomenal job. But like the performance of the last, I would say. eight quarters has been phenomenal. They're the largest subscription platform, media subscription platform on the planet, somewhere around 280, 290 million subscribers. And they have phenomenal margins. Anywhere, their operating margins are always right around 30%. They've sometimes been able to peak it at about 40%. So you're talking about a company that's built this incredible machine

that has all of these subscribers. And they really kind of figured out the formula on how to monetize it, the incredible margins. And up to this point, they've really been kind of in this arms race as other platform providers have been to really be about content. Netflix first started off acquiring a lot of content, historical content. But as you've seen with Apple and with Paramount and some of these other streaming platforms, producing, directly producing content has been a really, really big driver of subscribers. I think what we're seeing now is we're seeing the subscriber growth slow substantially.

And in Q3, Netflix actually said, we're no longer going to hold ourselves to these subscriber growth metrics. Instead, we think the value of our company is more closely correlated with, you know, the total eyeballs, the total amount of time. What they're really trying to drive the analyst towards is the engagement, you know, measures of engagement. And they're, they're killer at that. But I think that what we're seeing is they penetrated the market, you know, at 280, 290 million subscribers. There's really only a few other areas that you can go. You've penetrated the U.S. market, go overseas.

You have to match the content overseas. That's a big operation. I think what you're seeing is you're seeing Netflix decide, hey, live events. This could be good on a couple different levels. Number one, it could juice another wave of subscriber growth, which, you know, you're seeing, We expect that it will. We've seen the contracts with certain properties like the WWE and other exclusive content. If they can penetrate into different segments, they might be able to juice the subscriber growth a little bit,

but then also going deeper on the existing subscriber. A lot of us carry multiple subscriptions, and the idea is that Netflix isn't appointment viewing. It's on-demand viewing. It's whenever I want to do it. But now they're starting to mix in media with these live events that require you. you to make a point of viewing. You know, who isn't going to see Mike Tyson in a comeback fight when I don't have to pay anything? You know, it's a brilliant mood to get new, new eyeballs onto the platform, but also to potentially start to reposition your existing customers to

regard you as a live event platform. So I think it's really smart. We will see over the next couple quarters how it plays off, but it's an interesting Beck, and they're playing from a position of strength. You know, I don't think a lot of other platforms have the reach and the ability to justify what it takes to put on an event. We don't know the exact cost of what that Tyson event looks like, but we're hearing that just the purses alone, you have the gate, which was in a revenue stream, but you have the sponsorships. But the final loan to put on, it's reported to have cost over $100 million, you know, and there's not a lot of platforms that could bankroll that sort of event to attract the number of eyeballs in order to justify the investment.

So from a financial perspective, you're talking about a company that is in a dominant position, but they're smart and they're looking ahead and they're thinking, how are we going to justify this rich valuation? You know, remember, the stock is trading at a premium. You know, it's 40 to 50 times backwards looking EPS. This is not a cheap company to own. They have investors knocking at the door wanting to see, uh, their return on investment over and over again,

it seems like Netflix is really making some big bets in order to justify the premium on their stock price. I would agree with that, Peter. And if you go back to that strategic shift and positioning, really focusing on the engagement, I think, you know, part of the plateau of already having the lion's share of the global market when it comes to subscribers, like Netflix was one of the first to do it.

and globally have most people. And so you saw them in 2022 saying, okay, you know, you can no longer share your password with your grandma and your dog. And, you know, we need to start looking at it at a per kind of a screen basis, which definitely has helped with increasing and boosting that subscription model. But when you look at the engagement and something like The Love is Blind, live reunion. I'm not sure if any of you watched it or keep track of Love is Blind, but essentially the premise of the show is to marry someone you've never seen before.

And I think when that first was introduced to the world, it was quite a shocking experiment to have. And in light of the show's popularity, they decided to host a live reunion with Nick Lechay and Vanessa. a lichet and it was riddled with so many technical difficulties it was a one-hour pause you were supposedly allowed to kind of interact and have that engagement similar to a twitch or an ig live or tic-tok live but the challenges is you know if the screen is blank that doesn't really help and so i see the kind of direction from the strategic standpoint of wanting to build engagement to a the content that they already have and saying, okay, let's build a different stream,

a different avenue to build more of that engagement in a clearly very popular show. The challenge remains, to your point, Peter, is the cost of putting together these live events. And again, something like Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul, you know, there's so much investment that's needed. And, you know, when you look at things like UFC, and other live sporting events where, you know, you have to pay to just see the event.

I do think it's definitely an opportunity for Netflix. It's definitely a way to build more of that engagement from a people standpoint and looking at what those needs are. The challenge will be is the execution because I'm curious to get your ideas, Aaron, on like the brand side of things. If they're known for being that on demand and now moving to live. stream, but it's not really working. What does that mean for Netflix? Yeah, well, I mean, they're in an interesting position because I don't think they're being held to the same standard as Twitch and those always on live platforms. And we've had live, live broadcast for decades. It's called TV, right? It's called Network. And they're not being

held to that standard. They're kind of being held to the standard of other streams. So if another streamer of who were Paramount or what have you suddenly became extremely proficient in live broadcast and live out of the water. That's something, you know, people with hold Netflix accountable.

Right now, people can gripe and say, oh, that, you know, that was plagued with, with, with buffering and issues. And I didn't, you know, maximize my enjoyment experience of the way that I could have, but I'm still all gripe about it.

You know, I might, I might jump on, jump on social and give them a piece of my mind, but I'm going to keep my subscription. I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference. So until, like I said, until other streamers are outperforming and outpacing them in the live arena, I think all people can do is, you know, avoid be vocal and then business as usual. But I do wonder with the costs, you know, and the increasing costs in these tent pole events, I wonder if Netflix, you know, they can raise subscriber prices, right? That's one way of monetizing, because like you're saying, Peter, you can only go so far

in terms of adoption and maybe you've hit peak saturation, so you can raise prices. But I wonder, has Netflix created a problem within their business model where they've trained the customer into that all-you-eat-a-buffet for one entry point, right, one-gay-priced, and you get all you want. And I wonder, would, is it smart? Would consumers, customers be willing to pay even a micro-transaction, let's say, for a live event or for something, specialty programming? And would that be extremely disrupted? Would that go against Netflix's ethos?

What do you all think about that? In my personal opinion, I think it goes against their ethos where they were bad, cable companies to begin with, right? Like in Canada, for example, we have like two or three big syndicates where, you know, a lot of live sporting events, you have to pay for, and I think most places, too,

have to pay for the channels to even see your favorite show. Like the only thing that's technically free would be the Olympics, because I think legally our government said that's the one thing that we have to do. Everything else, you have to pay for it. And so I think having these

micro transactions could actually be a challenge for them in a world where people are used to. And, you know, the reason why people signed up to Netflix is to have that one subscription for everything. And so I do believe that's against their ethos. Do I see a further price increase to maybe validate some of these costs? You know, I do see that continuing to happen into 2025. and I know that they had shared in the U.S. market, they're going to start noodling the idea of a 12% hike. But I think the other thing for them is looking at their actual talent, right? Can they be poaching people from the Twitches and TikToks of the world

to make sure that their live events work well? And you have the technical capabilities in-house to produce these events. because if you become that pioneer for live streaming events on the subscription model, you're setting yourself way above everything else as Netflix is quite accustomed to. But you need to have the technical capabilities. And I think that's a gap that they are facing now. And so I wouldn't tell them to go against their ethos. Stay true to Netflix.

But maybe let's make sure that we can provide the service. a crappy service isn't people aren't going to pay for that you might lose people yeah i think that when they kind of put their foot in the water right with the fight they were really trying to see what was the appetite from the customer base and i do like what you say about their ethos but i also think that there's a way potentially and i think erin you were kind of getting to this where do you change what your subscribed levels are. For example, there's a premium level, right? Like Netflix plus, I hate to say that, where you get all of what you have currently plus

all live event, right? Or you can sign up for a live event early on. That also could help them understand what type of volume they're going to have when it goes live. Because if you think about what happened with the fight, they have. X amount of subscribers, but they don't, it doesn't seem like they were ready for even a hundred million to view it. So that to me is a technical operational issue. And to your point, I was going to say the same thing. You know what? Go buy it, meaning go out and poach away, right? Like everybody does that.

I'm sorry, but, and they really need to have scalable infrastructure. They need really like, you know, I don't know a lot about this, but it's called content delivery network, CDNs. And so they really need to have an advanced CDN. They really need real-time monitoring and analytics so that they understand when are people coming in and dropping out. The other issue with live events, unlike maybe the love of love is blind where it's an actually set-up studio event. But like the fights, you know, it never starts on time, right? So like with these live events, what do you have to fill in the time, right? And maybe Peter and Aaron, that's when you put sponsorship, you know, like gamification, engagement, like, you know, like little polls or whatever. But like, that's one of the things that I saw that people were like, you know, it didn't start on time. And then it just kept, the clock kept resetting and it just, you know, people were getting frustrated. So I do feel like, Chino, you bring up a really good point, though. is technically they have to back their promise.

And I think that now that they know what is in front of them, I'm sure that they've got a bunch of people working on that and really specifically working on life streaming effects. Maybe we can talk a little bit, unless you brought up some great points about, you know, the technical capability and how they need to scale it. So maybe just for one second, we won't get too nerdy with it.

But the technology that's underpinning this, Netflix has always been great. You have to imagine that they're delivering 4K content, you know, into homes that, you know, much of the United States at least is on, you know, some sort of fiber, fiber equivalent, but in some of the lesser areas, you don't get gig speeds in your local area. You might be 100 megabytes down, something like that. There's a lot of legacy infrastructure that comes into it. Now, Netflix has certain things under their control, their compression.

algorithms, but what they also do, like you said, a content delivery network. They have a proprietary content delivery network, and they partner with all of the internet service providers to try to cash highly use content closer to the last mile, right? So that you're not, when you're dialing up, love is blind from, you know, wherever you are in Massachusetts, you're not accessing a server if it's dedicated or maybe it's a hosted server in some data warehouse in Seattle, right? So what they're doing is they're trying to put the content as close to the consumption as possible. They're working with ISPs to do that. You know what you can't do that with? Live events, right? So the technical leap that you have to make in order to get up there,

it's pretty substantial. And Netflix is the best in the business always has been routinely runs contests to improve their open source compression algorithms, right? But still, there is a limit. on what you can do if you have a live event from Texas trying to beam that into every single you know subscriber across the United States or maybe even international who have various degrees of bandwidth it's not an easy task so it doesn't surprise me that this is something that they've they've had to dip their toes in and I would bet that one of the longest polls in the tent for Netflix when they're thinking strategically about live content is how much bandwidth can we get, right? Because I think that once they get past some of these technical issues and they find it,

I think what we'll find is they may increase their bet on the live events. But right now, no other platform is really pushing the level like this. Maybe the Olympics would have a similar technical challenge in terms of viewership demanding live events. No other app-based subscribers. network has had to face this challenge. So it's going to be really interesting to see how they can solve it technically. I wonder is it going to pass along that cost then to general customer base that may or may not care about boxing or love is blind or a comedy special and didn't ask for those things. Is that a reasonable expectation to say eventually we'll get to something you like? We're going in on live events. So you're going to help offset the cost for

us. It's interesting. Some platforms have done that. We've seen Hulu. They have the content side and then the live side. Netflix seems to have drawn the line on, no, even more lowest ad supported 699 level, they don't gate keep the content. So from that perspective, they've drawn a little bit of a line, it seems like, from ethos is you come in, you get the full Netflix content experience. That's not a question. We will differentiate on other features, such as, you know, how many TV screens, if you're going to get 1080p or 4K resolution. And then, of course, with the lowest tier, you are going to be ad-supported.

And you will see a little bit more of a network-like experience. And to kind of continue on with that thought, going back to Melissa's point of does it make sense then for Netflix to then have some type of subscription-specific or micro-transaction to test what that bandwidth is, right? because they don't have the capabilities right now, but as they look to the future, it will be important to test that.

And you can't, I don't think it's a great idea to test that on a global scale where you're tarnishing parts of your brand of delivering content on demand. I do think it'll be very important for them to be able to test that in some form of a kind of safe space, so to say, so that they can figure,

out, okay, who is interested in these live events, if they're willing to pay for that, because it's giving them a lot of data on different things in terms of even pricing and micro transactions, but as well, the technical capabilities, can we do this? Because, you know, I know that most people here are in the States, I'm in Canada, but Netflix is truly a global place. Like, if you look at their kind of international section, you have places like India and Nigeria, and, you know, you have to look at it from that perspective. So if you're saying every single person has the Netflix full content, yet they don't have the capabilities, I do think it'll be very important for them to test in kind of that safe environment. I think this is one of the things that we have done to our customers in a way that where we habituate them into these expectations. So Netflix has done that in that ethos environment there. And so even in, in the live stream ecosystem, I think Netflix has to be careful

because you still have your Netflix subscriber as your customer. So we're expecting all the features that we get for other content on Netflix. You know, like, oh, I need to go up and get my popcorn. I'm going to freeze. You know, I want to replay that.

I want to do those things. And we need to really try to make sure that we set the right expectations for live streams with the people that are actually, the audience that is viewing it. And then maybe there is a way for Netflix to kind of create this like seamless playback option or some kind of thing that is really on brand with them and that is available only to the people that actually paid for the live stream or something like that.

And I think that to your point, I think that they're going to have to rethink that business model a little bit. But again, it doesn't make sense to do that unless you can back it up with the actual technical ability to get that live stream done in the right way. On outside, the technical aspect of things, the actual programming of live events doesn't have to be, you know, astronomically costly. You can do live, live workout videos every morning, which is a must be there type of event, right? You can do TED Talks or TED Talk style programming, which is, it requires being there, being in the moment. You can watch it after the fact,

but it doesn't have the same dynamic as being there in real time. So I think maybe, you know, we've seen it with Netflix and other streamers, the big flagship programming is huge, costly, you know, massive budgets and expensive. And then over time, you start to see reality shows creeping. in and things that have a lower, you know, point of entry to put on the air or the streaming service. So I just, I wonder, is, you know, are we seeing these big colossal events take place

to set the precedent for it? And then is it going to go into more, I'll call it every day, mundane types of, types of live programming. Are we opposed to micro transactions? We brought it up. is it, you know, I guess it's a slippery slope, but if you're paying the, what is the $699 ad supported tier or whatever the top tier for the 4K multi-screen, and you were asked to pay another 99 cents, $0.25 to watch a premium live on demand, would you do it? Like, do you remember back in the day of like Apple Music, right? And that kind of, you know, we would buy your downloads for each song. So if it's $1.20, to watch Mike Tyson fight in a situation where otherwise I'd have to pay like 1999 just to watch this one show, I'm okay to pay $1.29 for me for those really colossal events.

Like to see Beyonce at the Christmas game with the Chiefs versus the Steelers, that's a huge thing. There's a lot of celebrity power. Taylor Swift will be there. She just went on this huge tour. Like it's a really great opportunity for Netflix, I think, for those big colossal events. But Aaron, to your point, if we get to a point where there's smaller things, like I wouldn't pay $1.29 to see the reunion of Love is Blind or anything like that. I get that for free. Why would I do that?

It's not enticing me to do that. But for these bigger events, I do see an appetite for that. And you've seen other models where, you know, that subscription add-on has been popular. I like that idea. I like that you're able to pick and choose which live events you would actually want to watch. I think that to me. And I mean, I think that there would be some, for example, I think the Tyson, Jake Paul fight, you would probably be able to pay a premium. You could, you could charge, you know, 1999. I mean, I know my kids would have paid that. versus, you know, maybe a love is blind thing is only $999 or $1.90, whatever the price. But, like, I think that there would be definitely, it would also address, Chino, what you said about the international audience.

And so, like, live events for other countries might be, you know, you know, football in England and, you know, all the things that are going on there that are maybe different than what we have. have going on here. I know that it's it's difficult to know what people are willing to pay, but I do think that you've seen like with the fights and things like that, people are willing to pay a lot. And maybe you also have like a corporate type of payment so that like if they're going to show it at a sports bar, you pay $99 for the fight, something like that. I mean, I don't know if they can control, if they can, they know whether that's going to happen or not. but, you know, it could be something. It sure beats spending like three,

how much would it cost to be there? What, three, four, five thousand dollars at some things, right? So I'm okay to pay $1.29, up to maybe $10, $15, really. $19 where I'm like, because then I can buy the channel and that goes against their ethos to me. But if it's cheaper than a cable system at the end of the day, if you can undercut the cable, we're good.

Netflix. I think people will be open. to it for those bigger events. Yeah. Either would that be the customized pay what you want for this premium content, would that be enough to make a difference financially and to offset the cost of these jumbo-sized events or do you really need the participation of all subscribers? It's a great question.

I don't know if we know the exact answer. I think that that kind of decision with Netflix is so interesting that we're having this conversation after previous episodes when we talked about Spirit. Airlines where they're known to, you know, all-a-cart pricing and every single thing is going to cost more, that's clearly not what we would be proposing with a micro-transaction-based fee model. But it's an interesting fact that these different businesses have, you know, approach the pricing strategy so differently. I think we see a little bit of aversion to that with Netflix, but I could definitely see

if you had premium live content or something else, I could definitely see it. In the past, you know, Netflix, when they release something, like I said, they don't get keep the content like other platforms do. It's not, you guys will remember that when you talk about Disney Plus, they get Disney Plus gets access to Disney produced content earlier than a lot of the other video on demand platforms. So it's interesting. I'm sure Netflix has considered it and has routinely kind of, like towed the line of no gatekeeping, but they may have to revisit this because like, Chena, you said and Aaron, you made the point. Some of the production costs on some of these live events, perhaps people would be willing to pay for it and they could capture more of that utility of a customer by doing different pricing structures. I know there's a couple of properties

that I personally would be willing to pay extra for. Now would I do it by the minute? Now that'd probably be a little like annoying to me or $199 or $2.99, but I can see some higher level tiers, like, for example, if I'm an F1 fan, or if I'm an NFL red zone, finding some of those properties where you can take that exclusive content, it's been proven that people would be willing to pay more for that, and I think Netflix could be well positioned to capitalize on that if they so chose. We opened the floor up to a new subscription tier for live events and splitting that off into a a new level. We introduced the idea of micro-transactions and whether or not that goes against Netflix's ethos and what they stand for. We looked at expanding live programming, so it's more

of an everyday always-on type of offering as opposed to these 10-pole events only, and it came up with some interesting stuff. What do you think? Do we fix it? Should Netflix embrace live streaming, or should they back away or change their model? Do we fix what we set up to do? What do you think, Melissa? I think that they should continue to explore it. I do think that they have the foundation for that. But at the same time, I also think that we brought up some really good points

that they have to figure out the longevity and strategically, how they're going to be able to deliver the live streams in a way that their fundamental audience and subscribers can be really excited about that and be willing to pay for it. What do you say, Gina? Did we fix it? I would say we did. You know, it's not easy being a pioneer.

That's what Netflix has always been. There are definitely some technical challenges that they need to overcome and some structural changes I feel only to make. But I do think given the chance, and it's still very new, it's something that they should continue on and push forward with. I think you got to, if you're going to go on live events, you definitely have to nail the technology. So I wish them the best of luck coming up to these Christmas games.

And we'll see if they've been able to improve their capabilities there on the other, on other fronts. They're doing phenomenal. You know, I think the CFO goes to sleep every night, very, very, and sleeps very soundly. The investors are happy with the stock price. Obviously, that creates a lot of pressure going forward, but they have plans. And I think that they're the live events.

We'll see how they do, but this is definitely a big part of their subscriber and engagement growth plans. So I think it's going to be key. Execution is always the hardest part of the strategy. So best of luck to them. I don't know how to fix the last mile problem for them. They have engineers that are much smarter than me to figure. that output. Well, I think we put in the fact that we prove it out

we each have an appetite for live events and you know, Melissa, Peter, mine might all be different, right? We might all be willing to pay a premium for different things and that would be Netflix's challenges figuring out how to do that at scale and produce the right types of events that are going to capture the most

subscribers and whether they choose to micro-transacted or charge a premium or just include it in that always-on type of offering with ever increasing subscription price, we'll find out. But I think we've, between all of us, we've proven live events are worth pursuing in their business model. So I'd say we fixed that part of it. We hope you've enjoyed this episode. If we fixed it, you're welcome with more episodes to come

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