We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Season 3's Final Fixes

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Starting point is 00:00:30 Welcome to Weaver. fixed it. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. Melissa and Chino, I can't believe it's the end of our third season. We're going to take a look back and a look forward and get to everything we can before our season wraps. You know, usually when you get to the third installment of something, you can tell the best ideas we're already used up a while back, but that has not been the case here. You both continue to surprise me with new insights. I learn from you both all the time. And we've such great guests this season.

Starting point is 00:01:05 Brad Reese came on to talk with us about Reese's and Hershey's with Zach Wichter from USA Today. We got to talk about outer space with Christopher Hirsey. I dug into Southwest Airlines with the former head of strategy, Rini Huey Lipton. There were a lot of standouts. We're going to take a look back at some of our favorites, see what we might have missed, and give our season a proper send-off before we jump into the next one, which we will do after a short break. Before we do that, Chino, any overall thoughts or reflections on this season? I know we covered a lot of topics.

Starting point is 00:01:33 We have. And I think, you know, the word of the day always is a playbook. I think we've set up a few playbooks for a number of different companies. And so I'm excited to dig into, you know, some of the things that we want to revisit. Excellent. Thank you. Chino. Melissa, how about you? I think that we've had an amazing season. And one of the things I've loved the most is understanding that automation and AI isn't the answer for everything. and that we have been able to bring really great expert perspective to the table and utilize, you know, innovative ways of thinking about the challenges that are ahead for a lot of people out there. Yeah, we've talked about AI a few different ways in emerging technology and encroaching technology. And we keep finding, I guess, think the ways of tackling it and hopefully creating hope for people that are scared of it and balance and all those good things.

Starting point is 00:02:30 Was it last season or the season before we had our fixes, our hypothetical fixes, quantified in dollar amounts and market value amounts? And we're circling a billion dollars of value back then. So coming out to the end of season three, I'd say we're in those high figures at this point. I'm proud of us. Yes. Well, it wouldn't be we fix it, you're welcome, unless we fix something or maybe fix something again. I know we each brought something to the table, but before we introduce what we each brought

Starting point is 00:02:59 for each other. As a show, we keep a folder of proposed fixes that have been submitted to our show, and I pulled one for us today. So let's keep out a listen. Hi, this is Rich, and I'm the host of Shipwrecks and Sea Dogs, a maritime history podcast. I'm a homeowner, and I go to places like Home Depot and Lowe's quite a bit. And I would love to see a smart cart with a built-in tablet that shows a map of the store, a most efficient way to get to all the items on your list, show you real-time inventory, a photo of the item, prices, similar products, etc. It could sync with a mobile app so you could have a shopping list ready to go, projects loaded, and offer project ideas, video tutorials,

Starting point is 00:03:36 and even let you request assistance from an in-store employee without having to search around for anyone. It could also have scan and pay technology right there built into the cart, so you could skip the lines. This could work for other retailers as well, but I was really just thinking specifically about home improvement stores since they're so big and they have billions of items. I've seen things similar to this, but not exactly like this, and certainly not at home improvement stores.

Starting point is 00:04:00 Thanks. All right. Thank you, Rich, from shipwrecks and sea dogs. Yeah, Home Depot, home improvement stores. You never can find anyone when you need them, right? Try to flag someone down and they say, not my aisle or not my section or I'm busy. So a smart cart that knows more than we do, that sounds pretty good. What do you think?

Starting point is 00:04:22 Well, I love this idea, but here's the twist. It already sort of exists. So Home Depot, I don't know if you all know this, has an app and has had this for years. You can voice search or literally take a photo of a part and it'll tell you the exact aisle and bay. Lowe's does it. Sam's Clubs does it with a scan and go target does it. IKEA does it. IKEA really needs to do it. And Macy's even has a version of this that they used with IBM Watson many years ago. So it isn't that somebody should maybe build this. It's somebody already built this and most people have no idea. So then maybe the real question becomes, okay, if it exists, why isn't it like the way everyone shops there? And I think Rich brought up great examples. Like you and I probably have all done this where you go into Home Depot looking for a very specific thing and you're lost. I mean, the aisles are huge. The bays are even huge. The bays are even huge, so I'm not even sure that it really gets you to the exact space you're looking for. So this gets really interesting, you know, from, you know, my perspective, from an ops lens,

Starting point is 00:05:31 there's, you know, kind of two different versions of GPS and a store. You know, the easy one, which I think is on most of these apps, is just really like look up where the inventory is. You go down that product aisle, but then you still have to kind of do a little searching and looking around. but I don't know that that's also what people are looking for. Like, I actually enjoy the conversation with somebody at Home Depot because they may tell me, oh, you're looking for that, but that's not actually going to fix your problem.

Starting point is 00:06:05 I love that. And you know what? I'm not a handy person. I've been to Home Depot a few times in my life. And recently, I bought an ottoman with like a storage compartment. And it was on sale because. has one of the hooks kind of fell off of it. So I took the full automate to Home Depot and said, hey, can you help me figure this out? And I had

Starting point is 00:06:27 chat GPTed it ahead of time and, you know, ask the chat what it, what it suggested. And it did give a number of different things and colors. And the suggestions were great. But as you kind of suggested, Melissa, speaking with the salesperson was actually more informative. And they were actually able to show me exactly where I need to do, how I need to drill it in, made sure that I also got wood glue because it was actually in a backing and they can actually see the product. And so what was, you know, a $400 ottoman on sale for 50 bucks with like a $10 fix,

Starting point is 00:07:03 I was able to do going to Home Depot. But I do think there is something for having that automation because I remember trying to find that person and to actually find the exact hook that I needed was at the very top. And so even for this salesperson, It took about 20 or 30 minutes later for them to actually find a ladder to go and grab it. And it became like a whole process. And so I do love this idea of having some sort of an automation where I can walk in. Maybe I speak to a salesperson and they can provide other examples.

Starting point is 00:07:37 But using that to kind of go in, grab what I go and just check out because there's also not that many cash registers. So I had to wait another 10, 20 minutes either. So if I can walk out with it and you're, you know, all. auto paying and I can grab and go would be ideal. So I really like this solution. Yeah, I even think that like when you were talking, it kind of brought some ideas to mind. I think we're kind of pulling on this thread about how to fix this because I do think the tech is important, but understanding from an inventory and operations perspective, especially at Home Depot, you've got a lot of specials going on and seasonal things. And so keeping that map up to date is going to be very difficult. And

Starting point is 00:08:19 And so, you know, pinpointing it to like the third bay up, like to your point, Chino, which is not accessible by somebody of a normal size, right? You know, and you can't find anything. That's a problem. So maybe it's about having more accessibility to the associates that work there. So maybe having like literally somebody with a little desk, not even a desk, but like a little station in front of each aisle. So like you could come in.

Starting point is 00:08:48 you know you need to go to aisle 14, but as you get there, you see somebody standing there and you say, hey, can I tell you my problem? This is what I'm looking for. This is what I think I need. And then they can tell you, yeah, let me walk you over here and let me bring the little portable like hooky thing so I can grab it for you because it's way high up. Or they can tell you, oh, can we dig deeper into that? Because I'm not sure that you actually need that pipe. you might be looking for something else. So I love, you know, like these real life examples because I do think it's something that helps with the experience and helps with everything.

Starting point is 00:09:28 But the solution might be really old school, which is put your associates into places where you can find them. I love that, too. And they do have associates strategically placed around the store, like, you know, in flooring or in the key station where you go get your key made and paint made. yeah. But I do like, I like the idea of floaters or I guess they're station. They're not the opposite of floaters, but stationary employees that are all purpose. Because what happens to me is I'll, I'll download the app and I'll have it at the ready and then it'll say aisle nine. And,

Starting point is 00:10:01 and then I'll just pace back and forth on aisle nine and say, I need help anyway. So I wind up flagging someone down. So having someone nearby and accessible would be really helpful. But I'm not, you know, I don't want to take anyone's jobs. But I don't want to take anyone's jobs. I'm not anti-automation either. You know, if it creates efficiencies and lowers prices or does something better for all of us, I think their self-checkouts are really efficient at Home Depot. That's helped quite a bit. You can get in and out very quickly.

Starting point is 00:10:27 So I'm not anti-progress, but there's something about those, like the smart carts or the smart apps or some, but there's, it does reach a point where you just need somebody. And, you know, like you said, you need someone who knows more, who knows more than the app does. And Aaron, from a brand perspective, don't you feel like they need to do? a better job if they've had this for a couple years or more than a couple years, then it's not really necessarily the tech. It's that they haven't really shared that. So maybe when you walk up, they should have a sandwich board. I mean, something simple that just has the QR code and says, looking for something and then you just, you know, or did you know, right? You know, those kinds

Starting point is 00:11:07 of fun things. And, you know, they could even make it fun. They could make it like a scavenger hunt, right, where you could get like a really good deal. Like if you scan the QR code, they'll say, these are the specials of the week, weekend or whatever like that. Right. Well, mostly you're the experience person, but they also, the mobile or the app interface experience has to be better than the person. Because, you know, you ever go to a deli and you try to go up to the counter and they say, no, use that kiosk over there. And then you spend 20 minutes on the kiosk trying to figure out how to put mustard on your sandwich. Yes.

Starting point is 00:11:40 And then so same with Home Depot. Finally, Larry or Vanessa walks over and you're like, thank goodness you're here. I've been struggling. So the app adoption would have to be outpace what the human connection would be, you know, in terms of efficiency. And I got what I wanted and I'm in and out. And it's I came in for one thing and now I left with something better. And I saved money.

Starting point is 00:12:04 Like is that happening on their app? I don't, you know, I don't know. But that could be a friction point. It could be. And I just, you know, thinking about the consumer behavior, right? Home Depot is a really unique store because it's not close, right? I kind of know what size I am anywhere. Where Home Depot, it's real life solutions for real life problems, right?

Starting point is 00:12:23 And it's using tactile feeling to actually sort it out. And that's why the human experience is helpful. But where I think tech can help and automation is actually when it comes to training these salespeople. I think by nature, when you're at Home Depot, you're trying to fix something. And so speaking to someone that you feel is trusted is really helpful. But why not arm them with a catalog of, you know, different fixes and different opportunities as like training? So, you know, when I came up to the salesperson and I said, hey, I need to get a new hinge. And I thought I needed this specific one. They could have turned into their AI because they can't fix

Starting point is 00:13:03 everything. They don't know everything like us fixers. But they can use that as like a tool for training so that they can come with different solutions and, you know, either upsell, again, I bought the wood glue. It was needed. Or show an alternative or say, hey, I can see that you're working on a planter for your backyard to put herbs in. Hey, did you know that you can, you know, do it in this different angle or have you tried this, right?

Starting point is 00:13:30 And arming them with different suggestions they can give to the team is a great way to help train the people. and from a business perspective, you know, again, help upsell at the end of the day. So I would say that would be where I would lean into AI if I were Home Depot. Yeah, I really feel like you hit it. Like, I feel like the fix is hybrid. It's not just the tech, but it's also the experience and the associates that they have working for them and the resources because those are really important. I mean, I think we've all had great experiences there when we've been able to find somebody to help as well as, you know, when you're easily going in and getting something and getting out.

Starting point is 00:14:12 But again, I think that there is a version of a fix that is hybrid that can really help and kind of address. Like I think what, you know, Rich was saying in his suggestion was really like, how do you streamline this and make it as easy as possible? And I think that sometimes that ease, you have to think about what is needing to be solved and fixed, you know, when you go to some point. place like that. And I do believe that there is a way to do that together with both of those. This episode is brought to you by Activia. You might already be eating yogurt, but not all

Starting point is 00:14:50 yogurts are created equal. Activia contains over one billion probiotics per serving to survive and reach the gut alive. When it comes to gut health, Activia is the number one family doctor recommended probiotic yogurt brand. Choose Activia. Feel good from the inside out. Visit at Activia.ca for more details. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And you go to Home Depot for a reason. You know, maybe you need a screwdriver, but maybe there's a problem.

Starting point is 00:15:20 You just need to talk it through with someone. And then they help you figure it out. So you're there physically for a reason and count the number of times I said, I'm just going to go to Home Depot. Because you need that experience. So technology, yes. Smart carts, sure.

Starting point is 00:15:37 bring them on. Some of this stuff might already exist and people just don't have the awareness of them. Or maybe they're not fully replacing one-to-one that human experience. So can we look at using the technology for what it's good at and then supplementing or doing a handoff for where people are just better? And we'll have the best of both. That's our fix. Rich, you got us talking. Thank you for that. We're one and done. I like this where we're headed. Let's move on. Melissa, what did you bring for us? Okay, so remember when we talked tired or hustled? That was episode nine. That was the one about people getting preyed on in a brutal job market. Fake recruiters, paid coaching packages that were really just a toll booth, people getting charged money just to maybe talk to someone. The whole point was candidates had basically stopped being the customer and started being a product.

Starting point is 00:16:28 And the advice we gave was pretty simple. Real recruiters don't charge you, verify before you trust anybody. and if it feels urgent or too good to be true, it probably is. That's a red flag, not an opportunity. Here's the fun part. We were talking about people losing a few hundred bucks or, you know, to fake coaching packages. That feels almost sweet now. The FTC has reported job scam losses went from $90 million in 2020 to over $500 million in 2024. And this year, one report says scam starting on social media alone hit 2.1 billion. That's eight times what it was in 2020. And that's just what people actually report. Can you imagine all the people that don't? The FTC thinks less than one in 10 victims even bother. They're embarrassed. They don't want to say anything about it, right? But it's not just more of the same. It's a completely different animal now. We're talking deep fake video interviews like. someone's running a real-time face swap and pretending to be an actual exec on your Zoom call,

Starting point is 00:17:40 reports of that jumped over 1,300% in a year. That's also fake onboarding software people getting told to install on their computers after they get hired, except it's really malware and is quietly draining their bank accounts. Like, really? This is crazy. And here's the twist we definitely didn't see coming. It's just not candidates getting scammed any. more. Companies are getting scammed from fake candidates, too. Checker found almost a quarter of companies already caught identity fraud on a new hire. Amazon says they've blocked over 1,800 fake applicants, some of them state sponsored. It's gotten so bad that Google, McKenzie, brought back mandatory in-person interviews in 2026 just to catch these deep fakes. So maybe my

Starting point is 00:18:31 favorite stat of the bunch is a monster survey this year that found 95% of job seekers have run into a shady offer and almost half say they're now skeptical of basically all recruiter outreach. Chino, ouch. Even real recruiters. So yeah, we call this episode hired or hustled like it was just a rough patch in a tough market. Turns out we were just describing a little calm before something got even worse. So really, what we know now, what we, I mean, gosh, are, you know, what are we focusing on? So like, should we have focused on candidates getting burned or companies getting burned? Any ideas? Chino, thoughts on this? It's, it's so funny. I read my own little boutique recruitment from, we're not the Amazon's, but I've actually experienced a fake

Starting point is 00:19:23 interview myself, or I'm like, this is not real. And I asked a few questions and I asked the person to move and it was like, oh, this is clearly a deep fake. This happens. This is real. Really? Yes. Yes. It's very real.

Starting point is 00:19:36 And the other challenge, too, and you'll see it on LinkedIn a lot and actually on companies' pages where they're now actually stating, hey, the only communication you'll ever get from us is from an email that looks like this. Anything outside of this is not real. We'll never ask you for, you know, your sin or personal numbers, identification numbers. will never ask you to pay us. Like they have this on their company pages now. Almost every company is doing this because of the scamming that's going on in the impersonation.

Starting point is 00:20:07 I've been impersonated too. And that has been going on. That has been going on for years. It's not a new thing. But I would say with the, you know, catalyst of AI, it's taken a whole different beast. And I think,

Starting point is 00:20:21 you know, the difference, I think we really focus on the candidate experience and how to watch out. And I think, again, go to someone you trust, use referrals. Again, I'm a recruiter. I work with some companies that I can't actually ever mention their name until you sign an NDA.

Starting point is 00:20:37 There's a process around that. But again, I'm never asking for anyone for money. No recruiter ever should. But what we can look into next time is the other way of when the companies are getting scared. We didn't touch too much on when there's fake candidates. And that's a whole other beast. That's a whole other side.

Starting point is 00:20:57 Yeah, for sure, Chino, in that episode, we focused on ethically dubious companies that kind of position themselves to sit at the intersection of candidates and the companies that are hiring. And they're maybe skimming off the top, maybe just building a data bank of monthly subscribers. But what touched the nerve at the time was how celebratory they were about it. So those middle market companies were so self-bro congratulating on look at our run rate, look at our revenue. around for 10 months. Look at how many subscribers we have. We're building this mini empire off the backs of people that just now have another barrier and a threshold to jump through that they'll never reach the company that they want to work for. You know, do you have a company that needs talent? You have a talent pool. They're never most likely would these companies get in the middle

Starting point is 00:21:48 of it for profiteering. They're never going to talk to one another. So that's what really, you know, hit a nerve back then. But this is a whole new level. This is just pure exploitation. Yeah. And I think the other thing is that, you know, when we were talking about this, Chino, one of the things we said is trust your gut, right? Like we said, don't pay a recruiter, trust your gut. Does that really hold up anymore?

Starting point is 00:22:15 Because that was great advice against maybe a typo filled email, right? Coming from a hotmail account or something like that, right? It's basically useless against a real. time deep fake on video, right? And so maybe the advice needs to move from instinct to actually verification, go verify for yourself every time through a channel, through, you know, calling the front desk of the company, you know, just to check to make sure these are real jobs that are open or, you know, this is a real company. It's not a forefront. Unfortunately, maybe the new rule is really simpler and colder. If a company won't do a real interview, you walk, right?

Starting point is 00:22:59 I work mostly remotely, right? And so it's really hard. What I think we touched on something. And if I were to give anyone a piece of advice, there's a nugget there that you had, Melissa, around verifying the source, right? Calling is different because people aren't in the office anymore. So that's another piece and self.

Starting point is 00:23:15 But you know where everybody is? LinkedIn. And if I'm a hiring manager and I've spoken to you or I'm interviewing you and you message me on LinkedIn, yes, maybe I have 300 LinkedIn messages. But I know that I've spoken to you. So I'm going to actually connect with you. And I think that is a tool that you can use to verify.

Starting point is 00:23:35 LinkedIn as well has their own verifying methods so that people aren't creating fake accounts. You can see from their interactions, you know, from a company-sponsored page. You know, you can't really just say, hey, I work anywhere. You have to do that. So I think that is the best way for candidates to do this where they know. Again, of course, there are fake companies that are posted up. there but this is where again trusting your gut of those companies are often asking you for money or your personal identification so don't give that to them you a recruiter will never ever ever ask

Starting point is 00:24:11 you to do those things so never get that to them the only time that gets tricky is now where you know we have the deep fakes in an offer stage and where you do send them your address and you do send them to your bank account so they can give you money that is where you need to verify And at that stage, if you haven't had some form of an in-person there, because even in remote or some type of an onboarding in person or touchpoint or a LinkedIn message where you can verify this person's address, that is where you need to watch out. That's what I would say the watch out is. And lastly, for companies, like I've mentioned, include a disclaimer on your company page of what the real address is because anyone can spoof an address at the stage. And so what does that look like, identifying what your actual hiring process is and, you know, maybe create a code word or something. But it's now on the companies to do their due diligence to protect candidates, even if they're not working with them or they'll never be employed there.

Starting point is 00:25:17 It's your job because it is your brand that's on the line. I love that. I mean, so, I mean, when we left this a year ago, it was, you know, the grounds really completely shifted under us. And, you know, you are right in the mix of this. So I love how you've been able to speak to this more directly. And I do think that the verify process is more intense than what we were saying, which was go with your gut instinct, right? You know, like you should know, you know, about these companies. And like you said, even checking someone on LinkedIn, like I have people reaching out to me all the time about the podcast or about different things.

Starting point is 00:25:54 And when you go to their LinkedIn profile, if you see that there's nothing really. there and they're, you know, they've only had connections with so many. Nobody's following them. They've only, you know, they have one job history kind of thing. You can pretty much bet that that's just been a created, you know, person at this point. And so I do think that, like you said, there's verifying through company websites. There's verifying through connection, which is the most important thing. And I do agree that, um, you just have to be really vigilant and protect everything as if somebody is going for your personal information, your personal bank accounts. Okay, I've got a fix, but you know, you have to validate this and tell me if it'll work.

Starting point is 00:26:41 Because they're a bad actor on LinkedIn too, but I think we're going to make LinkedIn a lot of money. So why does LinkedIn stop at the matchmaking part of the equation? Why can't LinkedIn be end to end? So not only do you meet a potential employer, employee on LinkedIn, but you do your interviewing through a LinkedIn video setup, you're multi-round interviewing, your screening, and you're contracting and negotiations. It's all within the LinkedIn ecosystem. And it's verified every step of the way.

Starting point is 00:27:15 You can report bad behavior. And there's parameters around it in the oversight. It's all owned by LinkedIn. What do you think? I love that idea. And there's a semi version of like the recruitment process called Recruiter Lite on LinkedIn that a ton of recruiters use. The challenge that I would say is that for most companies and for the Amazon's of the world, sure, LinkedIn is not cheap. Right. And so for most companies being able to kind of buy in, even if you have like a hundred people, it's still a pretty

Starting point is 00:27:50 nominal cost per year to do that. And the other challenge here, is, it's more so the candidates, right? Can you verify the can anyone? It's, it works when you're verifying from the company, but the big challenge now that we find is from the candidate perspective, and there are a lot of fake candidate profiles, unfortunately. And so I think that is where the miss is. But I do you think that there's a nugget there of if we can have a verified process, leverage LinkedIn to do that? And again, as a company, you know, you need to like, you know, maybe you hire a consultant, maybe you do your due diligence to make sure that that happens. And government, hey, in Canada we have, or in Ontario specifically, we have now recruitment laws

Starting point is 00:28:37 to help protect a lot of candidates who've been scammed by these people. And as a recruiter, I have to pay a fee and get licensed and certified. And as a company, if you're working with recruiters in Ontario, you can only work with certified recruiters. Otherwise, you get fined. Simple as that. And so if you're a solid recruiter, you have your license and you've been verified. So that's another route that we can take for larger companies who are working with third-party recruiters. But I do think visibility into your process, hiring process, you know, verifying through your connections and through LinkedIn, and at the same time, still trusting your gut. I will never not say that because sometimes, you know, you can have a deep

Starting point is 00:29:21 fake of, you know, maybe you're meeting this panel and none of us are actually there. And so we want to make sure that we can verify that in someone. Well, I think, Erin, you picked something that we can actually put on the docket for next season because I think that's a great idea. And also, it kind of gets to what is the responsibility of recruiting software and tech? So like greenhouse, workday, all of these that, I mean, how can they validate everything that's going out there? And I think there's a lot that can be kind of, we could talk. I mean, I think that's a whole episode, right? Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high interest savings account. Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest.

Starting point is 00:30:16 Conditions apply. Visit Scotiabank.com slash h. ISA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Right there. Oh, for sure. Yeah, it's like with file sharing and peer to peer is it's just our software versus, wait a minute, I was contacted through your platform.

Starting point is 00:30:36 We could have a whole conversation on that. So, all right, we'll put a pin in it. But great topic to bring to the table. I'll go next. So mine is a story that came and went. We got a lot of requests for it at the time to cover it, which just didn't make it happen. That's right. I'm talking about Burgergate. This was from back in February 2026 when the McDonald's CEO, Chris Kazimski, posted a video of himself trying out the delicious big arch burger. You probably remember it. It's so memeable. It probably lives rent-free in your mind like a gift. But if you don't remember, the guy acted like he'd never eaten any food before. He took the most awkward and underwhelming bite of this brandy, delicious, luscious burger that you can imagine. And it followed it by the

Starting point is 00:31:21 lukewarmness enthusiasm known to man. The whole thing was a PR nightmare. And as this taping, he's still chairman and CEO of McDonald's. I wish him good luck and all the best. But I guess the fallout hasn't been too bad. But my question is, should all CEOs be put into the spotlight like that? Was that fair? Maybe it was an off day for him.

Starting point is 00:31:43 Maybe some CEOs are better suited to the back of the boardroom and the business and behind the scenes and just aren't meant to be the front person. But let's say your company is the size of a McDonald's and people want to see who's running this thing. But your CEO just isn't great as that public face. What do you do about it? You coach them. There's no world in which if I'm a CEO, chief executive officer of any company, no matter what it is, if I can't get in front of anybody and if I'm asking you to buy this product and as the head of this company, I'm not willing to try it or I don't even like my own brand that I'm trying. trying to sell, there's never a space for that. I just, as a customer, I think they lost,

Starting point is 00:32:27 again, I don't know the numbers there, but it definitely rubbed people the wrong way. And I know a few people and the viral moment of people going to Burger King and Wendy's and all of their CEOs jumping in and saying, look, look at how much we love our burgers. Like, come here because clearly, you know, maybe you can't trust McDonald's. Yeah. What's interesting about Kaczynski's Instagram is that his Instagram following has apparently grown by 10, fold. Maybe not for the right reasons, as Chino mentioned, right? It's maybe a little bit of mockery and people want to see what he's going to actually do. But having more followers than any of his closest CEO competitors, even if it's a mockery, is that actually how you want it to go?

Starting point is 00:33:10 You know, do you want, does that change the calculus area? Like, do you feel like from a brand perspective that's okay that, you know, everybody knows that he's this goober. goofy kind of guy that's the CEO of McDonald's and then he went and did it with chicken nuggets. I mean, like, it's like, it's like, it's like, is this a joke? Like, or is he really doing this, right? Because I agree with you what you said, Chino, like, you know, experts and PR specialists would always say that your advice is basically not to make it about you as a CEO, but to make it about your product, your employees, your whatever services you're selling, highlight their stories instead of your own personal brand. And I don't think he was trying to create a personal brand. Honestly, I think that's what he was

Starting point is 00:33:59 trying to do. It's just that he was so awkward that it kind of blew up. So I think there are versions, Aaron, where the CEO as a face works. But it's someone that actually kind of, you know, really fits the whole vibe. And this. This is kind of like a joke now. So I'm not sure that's what McDonald's wanted, but that's what they got. Yeah, it takes me back in the, I think it was the late 80s or early 90s. They had the Disney movie of the week was on every week. And it was hosted by Michael Eisner.

Starting point is 00:34:35 And by getting it right, I think he's the one that insisted on being the one to get up in front. You know, he's running Disney. He's going to introduce the Disney movie. And even my understanding, he didn't test well. He's scared people. He's, you know, he had a certain demeanor that. It didn't tee you up to watch the cartoon afterward. It's,

Starting point is 00:34:52 he was a little icy, you know, um, so that didn't go over well. But with this case, it's, no, you got me thinking like,

Starting point is 00:35:00 they had a moment that they, if he was self aware, willing to laugh at himself, they could have owned that moment. And I guess it worked out anyway, because like I said, he still got the job. But I'm just picturing this campaign where he's watching,

Starting point is 00:35:12 you know, the most intense spectacle of a movie in 3D. And he's just kind of sitting there like, all right. You know, like a little non-flossed. And then he's in like a Formula One race car. And he's just going, okay.

Starting point is 00:35:25 And then everything's just kind of, okay, you know. And then he goes back to the burger and takes another bite. He's like, I took another bite. This burger is incredible. Oh, Aaron, come on. That's brilliant. Right? And it could have been one where physically, like, you know, he had that his polo shirt button

Starting point is 00:35:44 all the way up to the top. Like, I don't even know what that is. Like, yeah. And like, like by the time he got to the third one where he's actually having another bite of the Big Mac, he's like shirt unbuttoned, you know, hair's all messed up. You know what I mean? Like I love that idea. Like, okay, I think that that's a way to kind of live into it and make it feel like I, you know, that's what people want. People want you to not take yourself so seriously. Like, come on, you know. And like, I think that's the thing that like, you know, when people make a mockery of it, I'm, I feel like, you know, I feel like. You know, it's it's hurtful to him right personally and i feel like but they could do it in a way that's fun you know all those kinds of things so i don't know i didn't think of that before but that it would close the chapter you would have loved the guy yeah yeah yeah it would have been an ongoing bit right it's like you think of you know the commercials where it's like that's stand in like who is the

Starting point is 00:36:41 um you know the old spice guy or the you know all of it it could have been a bit and I think that's where they miss the mark there. Is there still an opportunity? I don't know for them. And I think the lesson here is like lean in, right? Like, you know, a mistake happened. Are we going to like skirt away from that? No, you lean into it.

Starting point is 00:37:04 And I think if they were able to own that a little more, that would have been so much more powerful. And maybe that is a commercial. And if they do, credit goes to air in there because I think that is a brilliant idea. And I think that could still be executed because it's still. somewhat recent, even though it's the end of season three. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement, and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025. Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display and an immersive 19 speaker AKG surround

Starting point is 00:37:34 audio system. This city demands agility, and Optic delivers with precision to make every drive extraordinary. Let's take the Cadillac. Find out more at Cadillac Canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. I love that idea, Aaron. Actually, I think that, you know, then, you know, Chino, we may not have gotten Subway

Starting point is 00:37:58 sandwiches. Maybe we can get like chicken nuggets for life. I don't know. Chicken nuggets for life. A McFlurry. Like, come on. I'd go for a sausage muffin with egg and a sweet tea. That's, I'm all over it.

Starting point is 00:38:12 Well, yeah. You know, you're right. There's a life expectancy. Like, you can't go back and manufacture a moment way down the road. and say, remember me? I'm the guy that didn't like our burgers. Well, now I do. You know, but yes, there's a time period where it's still fresh in the public imagination. You still have unfinished feelings about this guy that may have impacted your feelings about McDonald's. Maybe there is still something to it. I'd love to see it. I love when, you know, someone falls on stage.

Starting point is 00:38:39 And then that turns into, that's what they do. They fall every time on stage, you know, because we love it. It's a prat fall, yes. Yeah, there's something to it. The guy could, you know, make that his thing. He's the non-plus guy. And it turns out he was wrong the first time. He's non-plussed about everything except McDonald's. I'm loving it.

Starting point is 00:39:00 Oh, my gosh. Chino, your turn. Take us home with what you brought for us. Well, to no one's surprise, my podcast that I'd love to revisit from this season was our 7-Eleven episode where we talked about their attack. to bring the viral Japanese egg sandwich into North America. And I even did some boots on the ground research and went to my local 7-Eleven and picked up one of these sandwiches that was in Dengi Corner, a little bit warm. I ate it.

Starting point is 00:39:36 Didn't get sick. But it definitely tarnished my experience compared to what I experienced in Japan. And so our takeaway from this episode was that although it was a viral moment, the problem was they were not really thinking about the consumer behavior. You know, our solution really was they needed to test in smaller markets first and they need to, you know, think about the entire customer experience. No one wants to eat a warm egg salad. and I think that is where they missed the mark. And we did this episode back in March of this year. But as of April, funny enough, 7-Eleven's parent company

Starting point is 00:40:25 announced that they were closing 645 stores in North America as of 2026. They're still opening 205, but they're primarily closing down the bulk of their stores. And I think the bigger issue here was not that they've experienced. this product and this viral moment, but they never created the habit around that. And so I think it's really tricky when you bring a culturally specific product into a new market. And I also, you know, feel that one of the big lessons here is that you can't just copy and paste in a different place. So we'd love to touch on that. I know if any of you had a chance to go to 7-Eleven and try one of the egg salads before they went away.

Starting point is 00:41:15 I went chasing the egg salad. I went looking for it. And they wasn't there. I don't know if some stores still have them, but wherever I went, I couldn't find it. They say that they did do a bigger rollout and that Canada was secondary. So I want to ask you, Chino, about this. So the U.S. version got some real pushback.

Starting point is 00:41:37 People noticed that they kept the crust on the bread, the filling played it very safe. It was a little sweet, but a little milder than the real deal than what, you know, the one in Japan, if people had tried both like yourself. And they actually said that 7-Eleven was listening because Canada course corrected. Is that true? Was there a crust on your? Yeah, listen, yes and no.

Starting point is 00:42:05 So I picked up one sandwich and I'll tell you this, because I walked into the store, excited, ran over because I lived off those eggs salad sandwiches when I was in Japan. And so I came there. I went into the back section where there's like the fridges, which is where you would expect the egg salad to be sandwich. And I picked one up and I noticed crust on it. And I thought, hmm, this isn't great. I picked another one that also noticed crest.

Starting point is 00:42:32 But when I went to the front of the store to ring out because I said, you know what? For the pod, I will fix this. I need to do this research. Let me try this out. And when I went to the counter, I noticed there was four or five egg salad sandwiches sitting in a tray of ice. Again, a little sketchy. Is that the customer experience that you had in Japan? Absolutely not. Did I swap mine out and eat it anyway? Yes, I did. Did I get sick? No. But it was that experience of having to switch my egg salad sandwiches really didn't make me feel great about what it was. And so I think there wasn't that

Starting point is 00:43:10 much quality assurance as compared to in Japan where, again, every single day in my like 21 day trip, ate one every single day, not once did I ever see any egg salad sandwiches with any crust on it. They all looked fairly identical, same and delivered the exact same taste. And so we touched in the episode two about the behavior, right? Going to a convenience store was a part, is a part of Japan's culture. It's where a lot of people get their bulk of their groceries. Versus in, you know, North America, it's a convenience store. It's a quick shop. You're in a pinch. You're running. You're grabbing gas. And so I think that's where they miss the mark. And unfortunately, it has not taken off the same way. And they've now starting to close stores down. And,

Starting point is 00:44:02 And I don't, you know, the closest 7-Eleven to me now is about 45 minutes away. So I don't think I'll ever get one in North America again. Well, but I do think that the crust feedback is actually a great op story for 7-Eleven and that they actually did listen to what peak customers were saying in the United States. First, they, from what my research says, it took them a while to find a Canadian bread vendor that actually had like that soft milky bread, you know, kind of texture that they're looking for. So to your point, it's maybe not so much about the taste. It's about presentation. And like, gosh, am I really going to go into 7-Eleven and get something that's on an tray of ice? Like,

Starting point is 00:44:51 what the heck? It's like a slushy in a sandwich. I don't know what that is. What that is. So, you know, so it's, it's like they were listening. They were trying. But then to your point, this whole culture around convenience stores is something that you can't just have happen overnight, especially in a culture where for us, the convenience store was really like, okay, we're stopping by to get a bag of ice and we go inside and get a pack of gum and a lot of ticket, right? Like that was kind of our 7-Eleven experience. And so it wasn't like, oh, this is where I'm going to go after work because this is where I go every day to get my meal, right?

Starting point is 00:45:30 Or before work and I get my drink or, you know, that kind of thing. So and 24-7 in a more, you know, convenience store way. So I do think that there are components of it that they try to get right and they're still kind of evolving. But I do think that the biggest miss is that they can't really fix that culture because that's not the culture that we have in terms of. convenience stores. And they didn't take our advice and evolve and come up with something else. Like, okay, go with the food idea, but turn it into a gourmet barista bar. Or turn it into, I think

Starting point is 00:46:10 I said peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, which has food allergy issues and nut butter issues and things like that. But something where you don't need fresh ingredients on hand all the time, put in a Wetzel pretzels. But even like Thrifty's had the ice cream counter for so many years and had that feel the old-fashioned drugstore. And I don't think those are around anymore either because you had to either staff employees behind the counter or have cross-functional employees that had to run back and forth all the time. So I don't know if this was one that was doomed to start

Starting point is 00:46:41 to say we're going to have a fresh ingredient or fresh sandwich with fresh ingredients all the time in an American 7-Eleven or if there's still a way to go about it. But this experiment didn't seem to work out for them. Yeah, I feel like they have to target it. Like, I feel like they need to open, fully open a 7-Eleven that is like the branding, everything should be Japanese so that like it's very clear that this is the experience you're going to get when you go to this 7-Eleven. And I think that they target like large metropolitan areas that have this idea, that this culture, right? They're all into that that culture right now.

Starting point is 00:47:20 So that like you start out, you know, in Los Angeles and K-T, Japan town in San Francisco, those place in New York City, what, you know, where they have that already. And so then you, you can build out, you know, a whole Tokyo experience, right? Like, I want to go to the Tokyo 7-Eleven. I don't want to go to this, the 7-Eleven that's got gas and a slurpy. Exactly. And people would travel for that because it is vital and it is a great product. And on that note that you were talking about, Aaron, in terms of other opportunities, I think they were also just focused on the wrong 7-Eleven viral hit from Japan. The other big one is their coffees in a cup, their ice coffees, which is a lot easier to

Starting point is 00:48:08 translate because in America, in North America, everybody's grabbing their coffee from somewhere, whether it's Starbucks or drink obsessed. Yeah. We're drink obsessed. Like, we know that. We use convenience stores often to grab a quick and go like a red bowl or whatever. And you're willing to pay $8. Exactly. Right.

Starting point is 00:48:26 So that was the miss. I think if they were to do this again in the other 205 stores that they're opening is looking at little segments and saying, okay, what translate in terms of like the actual product and like the logistics of getting what you need and delivering the same quality that you do in Japan? Coffee. That's about it right now. And I love the idea, Melissa, of creating. Japan-like or focused 7-Elevens that people travel to. So maybe there's one in every big city. Please do one in Toronto.

Starting point is 00:49:03 That's where I am. I would travel. I do miss that egg salad because otherwise I have to go back to Japan and I don't mind doing that. But I would really love it and I would give you more of my money, 7-Eleven, if you can translate that. But I think to change that consumer behavior is looking at what's already happening, which is coffee drinking and looking at that.

Starting point is 00:49:23 viable product instead of the one that was really difficult to kind of recreate. I think having that as a pop-up experience too and like cross-cultural things like Shohei Otani showing up and you know picture, you know, or like all those kinds of things. Like I do think that would be amazing. And like even partnering with like the Japanese dollar store, I don't know what it's called, but it is fabulous. You know, like I just go in there just to I didn't know you could get erasers that small, whatever. So I just love that idea, Chino, I think that, again, I think focusing it and like maybe

Starting point is 00:49:59 redoing that and then kind of seeing how it how it would make sense because I do think it would be a shame to have a 7-Eleven Tokyo experience in rural South Dakota 7-Eleven if that's not what they want there, right? Like they want something else there, then of course you're not going to make money on that. So like that doesn't even make sense. But if you had it, you know, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, they really, it was an experience and people went there, then that would be really cool. Different themes. If there's a Star Wars theme 7-Eleven somewhere and then a tiny little food court theme 7-Eleven that does have fresh food. Like we, yes, we would travel for these things. We would road trip to them. We'd stop on the way. We'd see a billboard, you know? Yeah, let's create

Starting point is 00:50:46 create more excitement in our lives. Everybody loves an experience. And I think that's what they need to remember. It's the experience of Japanese 7-Eleven is what makes it successful. Yep. Well, they're closing stores. They're opening a few more, so there's still hope for them. Let's do this, 7-Eleven. We got you. Well, thanks, Chino. Thank you, Chino and Melissa. I think about everything we've accomplished, and I'm continually thrilled to be fearless fixers together with you both. I can't tell you how many times I've heard from listeners, oh, Melissa's amazing, or Chino's amazing, or they're both incredible. I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm right there with you.

Starting point is 00:51:23 Either of you, any final thoughts for the season? Well, thank you for bringing us together. I think this has been one of the greatest experiences I've had. I love fixing things. And I think that I've learned so much from all of you as well as from our guests this season. I think we've had some fantastic guests that have really brought the fire and made, challenged us to think about things in different ways. And I'm always surprised when we when we leave. episode and feeling like, gosh, I really want to know more about that topic. I think that's,

Starting point is 00:51:57 we've done really well when we've done that. Yeah. And I just, just to echo what you shared, Melissa, it's, you know, being with the two of you every single week is being incredible and exploring different things. I feel like we all get to like ping pong off of each other and learn a lot. And again, the guests this season, like really appreciate your time. But of course, or listeners for sticking with us for three seasons. You know, it's really, it's, we do this because of you and we really appreciate all of that. And we're excited for the new season. Thanks, Chino.

Starting point is 00:52:34 Thanks, Melissa. Yeah, I'm excited to before we go. And I'm glad you mentioned guests and listeners, because before we go, we've got an awesome lineup of topics and guests also for season four. I think we're going back to outer space with our topics. We're going to talk sports, which we haven't really devoted an episode to yet. We're also going to predict the future. And we're here to fix all of it because that's what we do.

Starting point is 00:53:00 Not really going away. You'll be able to catch up on a few of our favorite episodes with updates from me until we come back with new ones. So make sure you subscribe to our show. Next week, you'll enjoy a recent episode we handpicked for you. Keep an eye out for new ones very soon. and we will see you next season. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It, you're welcome.

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We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Season 3's Final Fixes

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