We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Sizing Up Oura

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Oura has sold millions of rings, generated significant revenue from both hardware and memberships, and pursued a company valuation of more than $15 billion. It was supposed to go IPO…and then it didn’t. The ring itself? It tracks your sleep, stress, recovery and activity. It’s a major business. But the ring may be the least interesting part of this story. In this episode of We Fixed It, You’re Welcome, our panelists Aaron, Melissa and Chino break down the business behind Oura, from its hardware-plus-subscription model to its growing customer base, brand awareness, and health-data strategy and challenge each other about whether an IPO was ever the right move to begin with. The conversation explores why Oura has succeeded in a crowded wearable market, how it can continue growing, and what happens when a company becomes responsible for an increasingly valuable collection of deeply personal health data. The central question is: With all eyes on this company, how does Oura move on from here? What You Will Learn Why Oura is more than a ring How Oura's hardware-plus-subscription business works Why the subscription model is both an opportunity and a challenge How Oura can expand its audience Why Oura's screenless experience is an important differentiator Why retention does not necessarily mean genuine customer engagement How raw health data can be turned into actionable guidance Why customers may want different levels of health information The discussion around Oura's sleep-data accuracy Why customer consent matters when collecting health data How AI could increase the value of biometric information Why health-data privacy could become increasingly important What a customer-controlled data permission center could look like Why longitudinal health data could become a valuable asset The tension between shareholder expectations and customer privacy Whether Oura should monetize its data Whether Oura should introduce additional products Whether Oura should increase subscription prices Connect With the Show Subscribe for more deep dives where we fix big business problems with fresh perspectives. • Website – www.wefixeditpod.com • Follow us on: Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wefixeditpod LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wefixeditpod YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@WeFixedItPod If you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends! Keep listening to find out how we fix companies and put them back better than we found them. Disclaimer A quick disclaimer. We are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice or anything that would get us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We’re here to ask the kinds of questions everyone’s thinking, have an engaging conversation and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you’re welcome. All trademarks, IP and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners.

Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. There's a good chance someone you know wakes up every morning and immediately checks on their jewelry. Not to see if it's missing to see how they slept. Today we're talking about the aura ring. You wear it on your finger and attracts your sleep, stress, recovery, and activity in a way that's simple and easy to understand. That simplicity has become a serious business. ORA sold 3.6 million rings over the course of a year, generated over $1.2 billion in revenue over a nine-month period and is now going public.

Their valuation, more than $15 billion. That's a lot of bling. But ORA is not only selling a ring, it also charges for a membership that interprets your health data. You still want access to that in the next month? He keeps subscribing. So it's not just a one-time cost, which brings the question, why is ORA so valuable? Is it that far from market saturation that they're just getting started? Is it because subscription prices can keep getting higher once they have a captive audience? Or is it because they own very valuable data about customer help? How do they grow from here without losing trust along the way?

That's what we're here to fix. Let's do it. If today's episode has a familiar ring to it, it's because this company has grown fast. Quick catch-up. Oro was founded in Finland in 2013 around a straightforward idea. A ring can collect useful health signals without putting another screen on our bodies. It measures signals like movement, skin temperature, resting heart rate, heart rate variability, and respiratory rate, then translates them into a guidance focused on sleep, activity, and stress management.

So what is ORA? A ring, a software, maybe both? Well, the company describes itself as an integrated hardware plus software subscription business. Its wearables produced 974 million or 80% of revenue during the first nine months of fiscal 2026. Membership produced around 240 million or 20%, with a paid community of about 5 million members and a really high retention rate. Healthy, right? We know what that means. IPO. Here's where it gets spicy. In order to prove it's worth post-IPO, ORA is probably going to need to demonstrate that it's more than a one product company. and if it introduces new products, they may not all be a hit. It's also sitting on increasingly valuable trove of highly personal data.

The more the company looks to monetize as a responsibility to its shareholders, the more enticing it might be to put those data banks to use. So how can ORA grow responsibly? What's fair game? What's off limits? And how do leaders of this company make the most of this opportunity while they still have a hot product on their hands, and literally on our hands? Let's get into it. Well, there's a lot to dive into here. I think one of the things is that we really need or Aura really

needs to keep very close to their mission and keep that clear. I think that that's one of the things that when you go through an IPO and when you go public, does that strategy change, right? So the clearest strategic test is whether growth makes the customer relationship stronger. and if any new partnership is financially exciting but requires customers to wonder who's getting to see my health data, which is very private, why is it being used, or whether they can say no and opt out, and is it that easy? So it becomes more than just a privacy problem. It becomes a mission problem because that's the difference between ORA and a lot of these different wearables, right? So ORA really is about keeping that health data for you and helping guide you versus, you know, an I watch that has a lot of other functionality.

And so it's really about an effortless experience here for the customer. And I really think that what we're going to be diving into really with the data is also something that's very important because as you've heard in the news over the course of the last couple days with AI bots going, agents going rogue and accessing specific, you know, government agencies and private corporations and things like that. How safe is our data? And this is very, very, very important in terms of personalized healthcare. Yeah, I think, Melissa, you bring up a really good point too. And I want to touch on the data security in a bit. But what I think what is made, or are really successful is exactly that their mission, right?

So there's Apple Watch, there are Fitbits, there's a thousand wearables. I was never interested in them. And I think they really found a great market segment of the people similar to myself who I don't want my phone necessarily physically on my person. I don't need another screen, but I would love to track what my steps, you know, sleep for others. it can be a number of different data points that, you know, these other wearables do. And I think what's made them successful and I think what they need to remember is who that demographic is and leaning into that. You know, of course, when you're an IPO, it's about the stakeholders. It's about how do we make more money.

I think that the market share for wearables in kind of their niche can continue to grow. like ORA Ring is still becoming a household name, which is great. So I do think that there is an opportunity for growth that way. However, like we've seen with Facebook and Netflix and all of these other subscription services, you know, there comes a point when you tap out where almost everyone is now using it. And now it becomes, what can you do more with it? And that's what we look at subscription and, you know, the monthly, monthly services and things like that. So I think for ORA to continue to be successful is remembering that they have this weird niche and not moving away.

Because I think the second that they add a screen or our data becomes compromise, they're going to run into a few issues there. So I would love to touch Aaron maybe even on some of the, you know, not many people know about ORA still. I remember talking to a colleague about them when they were shocked. I've never heard about this brand. It's about a week or two ago. So what do you think they can be doing before, or I guess as this IPO happens to kind of further their brand? Yeah, that's a good point because even with their subscriber base, you have to presume they have it reached saturation. But in order to grow, the cool thing about their company from a revenue standpoint is it's not a one and done.

So you don't buy a ring that is going to self-update and you're gone forever as a consumer. because rings stick around for a while. You're buying the hardware and the software. There's probably going to be a push to monetize and increase subscriber tiers and bring in expert health coaches that are part of your, I don't know, whatever their model is going to be,

but how do you do that without gouging your existing customers with an increasingly large subscription that's harder to maintain? Because their retention rates great. Honestly, I've been in a lot of business places where passive retention is the bread and butter. And so I think Aaron and Chino, when you were talking about, like, how do you get your name out there? I think it's by building that trust, but also, like, you know, in social circles, you know,

or is not cheap, talking to other people and seeing that they have the ring on, right, and saying, hey, how's that helped you, right? Like, I'm having problems with this. And so my stress levels or whatever it might be. And I think that's the thing that they need to really focus on is like, how do you kind of continue to build on that platform and that mission? And to me, I'm going to just keep saying that because I think that sometimes in IPOs your identity gets lost. And that would be a very sad thing because I think ORA does provide a very unique foundational core for these wearables. It's very different than Chino, the Fitbit, the I watch, those kinds of things.

You know, and I mean, I don't think that they have health providers. I mean, I don't know that they want to provide health providers for you. But I think it's, you know, it's more about providing information that's very personal to you that will better your life. Let's put it all on the table. If it's a bless, the subscription is a blessing and a curse. You know, a Peloton without a subscription is just a bike. An aura without a subscription is just a ring. So it's not just that one-time purchase.

They have to make us all aware and crave the monthly subscription and want to pay for it. And if it goes up 20%, we have to want to pay for the 20% upcharge. If they add new features and it's ORA Plus Premium Pro, we have to want to pay for that. So how do they get the visibility? Well, it's not fix it yet, but normalize it. You know, make it big it, show it that it's part of everyday life, that people are just, do a rom-com, do a rom-com where the plot point twist is an aura, You know, like blatant product integration, something like that.

We're just on a big scale where it just shows, hey, we're all aware of people now. What are you doing and not paying attention to our company? I'd start there, but we can talk more about visibility too. I agree with that. I just actually want to touch on the sleep because there is actually, you know, a class action lawsuit that came to be in August of 2026, filed by the Clarkson law firm on behalf of in California. And they're claiming that, you know, ORA has falsely advertised actually the sleep data accuracy.

So they're saying, you know, Orra says 95% of their sleep staging and all of those different plot points are about 95% accurate when this claim is alleging that the accuracy is actually closer to 50-50. So I want to touch on the data, because, you know, it is important to build those insights for the subscription.

You need to have accurate data. So there's that question, too. But I don't think that's not something that they can fix, right? They're still fairly new when it comes to the wearable game. 2013 is not that long ago, even though it sounds like it. I think, again, what their edges and I think what they need to lean on is the fact that they're screenless, right? I am sick of seeing another screen. I would love to have some of my data,

but I don't necessarily want something that is buzzing at me every three seconds. And I think that's where the edge comes in. And so whether it is a rom-com where it's like, hey, how many steps or, you know, everyone might have different needs for, you know, what they want out of a wearable, right? For me, as I keep talking about, it's my steps.

I never have my phone on me. I don't have any wearables. But I would love something that would actually show me how many steps am I actually walking so I can see, you know, I like to look at it at the end of the day. Me, my partner have a little competition going on, but it's like mine is never accurate. I know a friend who has an aura ring who actually looks at it from their sleep data. To me, not as important. I know when I have not that grade of sleep.

So I don't really care about the accuracy of my sleep. However, for her, it was really helpful in realizing there was a lot of stress going on at work and actually was impacting her sleep long term. And, you know, she said, okay, it actually prompted her to take a vacation, which is, which is great. And I think what's great about ORA and the subscription service, I think, is, you know, at a basic level, you should be telling people your steps. But the steps isn't the larger picture.

And I think if someone's going to be opting in, what they really want to lean on, as you've been saying, Melissa, is the customer experience and what they're actually providing in that subscription. So it's not, oh, you had bad sleep. You probably know that when you wake up, but it's, you know, here's a pattern, here's some tools on how to how to fix this. Or, hey, we noticed that, you know, your sleep was off. Well, actually, it's because I was in Spain two weeks ago. So I'm, you know, a little bit jet lagged or whatever the case may be. Or your step count is down. And, you know, maybe you want to pick it up or, you know, pick up an extra workout class to kind of make up for the lack of walking, I'm going to be doing in the winter because, you know,

you walk less typically. So I think leaning into that customer experience and what the subscriptions provide is going to be important because right now with all the other wearables, it is just here's your data. And I think where I can step in is that. Here's something I've done for work that I'll never volunteer for again, writing a step-by-step process document. It's tedious, it's time-consuming, and after all that effort, it just kind of sits there, which is why I really like what today's sponsor, Scribe, has built for companies. Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500, and I've had a chance to see it in action. Instead of stopping what you're doing to document a process, Scribe captures the process

as you work, including clicks, steps, and screenshots, and automatically turns it into a clear step-by-step guide that's ready to review and share. Scribes AI can even look at that workflow and suggest where steps can be simplified or automated. And with the Guide Me feature, anyone you choose can follow that same process with real-time on-screen instructions showing them exactly where to click. And don't worry, it can automatically redact sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers so you can share with confidence. Look, don't just document your process. Why not find ways to make it better? To see See what Scribe could look like for your organization, head to Scribe.com. How slash fixed

it and mention we fixed it for your first month of Scribe Capture Free on Select Plans. That's S-C-R-I-B-E-E-D-I-T. Today's episode is brought to you by Quince. My favorite new button-down shirts from Quince and I've got to tell you it's sharp. The material feels great and it fits exactly the way you hope a shirt will fit, which for some reason is harder to find than it should be, but not at Quince. They've got everyday essentials figured out, and they do it in style. The prices are 50 to 80% less than similar brands, so you can't go wrong. And their materials are ethically sourced,

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key what you said. So that's really about taking it from information and data to actual action, right? So giving the people information is easy, right? You can get your sleep score, you can get your steps, but that's not actually helping them act by understanding what that data means. Also, one of the other things is a score, and you know this, you know, based on what you just said about steps, must guide. But it doesn't override what the customer knows to be their lived experience, right? So there's a reason why, well, I put my phone down and then, I kept walking, right? You know, whatever or something happened, right? So really, I think the best guidance usually is timely, specific, achievable, and optional. Customer needs all of this in one step

and not just the data dump of information. And I think that's where ORA is trying to go and head. And it should really distinguish itself between these like high confidence observations or data points. and patterns and health concerns where you might need somebody to step in, a professional to step in. But the customer's goal is really to become, have a better understanding of themselves, right? And that's what the aura ring is trying to capture, right? How do I know better what's really going on with my body, especially in times where I might not be very conscious? I'm asleep, right? you know, those kinds of things. So I think that that's really an important perspective to have is that

data becomes valuable only when there's less friction involved in it, when you're actually presenting it to the client and to the customer. And we need to use it as a signal, not necessarily as definitely it's a launching off point, but it doesn't necessarily always mean this is the map, right? It's just guidance. And so, again, Orr is kind of in that middle. space. So they have a lot of information and how they're utilizing it is really going to be important. So I think that you've really brought something to the forefront. You know, in the sense of like the data is great as long as it's actually utilized in a way that can be helpful to the customer, right? Because we can talk about metrics and dashboards and all these things. And they probably

have, oh my gosh, I mean, or has been around for a while, so they have just eons of data, but actually what, how helpful is it? And when you're getting sued and finding out that, oh, well, actually our sleep score is 50% correct, like allegedly, right? You know, allegedly? Or what was the sleep score really meant to be? Was that meant to, it's meant to be personal to the person and it's meant to be a guide, right? And it's meant to trigger an action, right? You get the information and then maybe you'll change something, right? Change your sleep position, change whatever. So if it's done some of that and helped, then maybe that's what they want. And the accuracy of it isn't necessarily, the accuracy is to you. And I don't, you know,

I don't really know. I hear what you're saying most about without accuracy, then are you is just a name and a status symbol. I don't know. I don't have any reason to trust or distrust their reported accuracy, their data privacy, their intentions more or less than any other data-driven company, but it has come into question elsewhere. So it does raise the question, what exactly are you buying? At such a high price point, too, right?

That's such a high price point. And in a way, they've already won. They've defied the odds. I've talked with so many wearable peripheral companies that, you know, whether it's like, Like it's an ear cuff or it's a necklace or a wristband or something or it does a specific function. And some are like glucose monitoring or they have, you know, reasons to be. But there's there's been competitors that have spent a lot of, you know, burn through a lot of capital to try to do, get us to wear something as consumers. And they just, they flame out.

Or is they won? Like they hit some critical mass. So now is the question is, what do they do from here? And how are they going to dictate how they handle what they're sitting on? I would agree, too, with that. And I would, two points to this. So bear with me, everybody. But my first point, I think when it comes to the data, you know, again, I'm a little

weary as listeners, like with AI and data collection and things like that on the interwebs. So I think what will also be very important for ORA is to tailor that insight. Like if you're like I am not one, again, I only want it for my steps. That's it. But my friend loves it for her sleep. So I think asking each customer exactly what do you want from it? Do you just want the very basic? And maybe this is how they kind of tier their subscription where, you know, pro top, the highest level of subscription is, you know, not only are giving you these insights on the specific data points that you select. Because again, if I'm hearing about my sleep, that would freak me out. Or if I'm hearing about my heart rate and I don't want to hear that. But for someone that might have like a heart condition, maybe that is really important information to them, right, to help dictate some of their behavior.

So again, getting your customers to select what they need if this is a personable wearable, if that is your whole brand is going to be important. Otherwise, you're going to freak me out. And with the other people who, again, unlike the other wearables, like an Apple Watch, which again, I have one, don't use it. And a Fitbit, I had one, move to Apple Watch. But, you know, that I stopped using them because of the screen and the fact that they were giving me information that I didn't necessarily want.

I was freaked out. So I think asking your customers is important. I want to pivot to my second point, which is timing of all of this because I've just seen my first ORA commercial like two weeks ago. And again, they've been around since. 2013, I know like one or two people that have an aura ring. I've asked them about that because ORA, if you're listening, I would love one of your little minis. I really would love to try because

I'm very interested in some of my own health data outside of a screen. And my question is, is this the right time for an IPO? Because I feel like they are just scratching the surface. They are just becoming a household name. Do they work on some of these things? Let this class lawsuit of alleged sleep data, which again, I think people know how good they sleep. Should you wait till a little bit after where you have more of a critical mass, more of a name brand that is recognized globally, and then you IPO. So my, I think timing right now, I feel like you can get a better time and you can have, you'll have more valuation because I don't think they've even scratched the surface of brand

awareness yet. So curious, your thoughts, Aaron and Melissa, on timing of this IPO as well. Well, the timing of IPOs in general, in my experience, that is critical, Chino. It is critical. Probably something that the bankers, the investors, the VCs, the P.E., whoever they're using, are all looking at. And so there is a real. reason why IPO is being pushed now. And it could be based on the fact that they're in need of money, capital, and that they think that this is the best time going forward because of the market, the competitive landscape, the other wearables that are out there. And they just want to capitalize on what they've already got, the momentum they have going. I think they have some brand. I think they have

some brand capital, okay, but I do think you're right that it's very, very important to understand that this timing is all business related. And it also may fold into whatever their product roadmap looks like. So with the aura ring, are they having some issues with, you know, I don't even know how it works, but like, you know, the software, the data, dumping, are they concerned about AI, right? And everybody saying AI is the place to be and that people are going to take, go away from a wearable and go to someplace else for this information and guidance. So I just wonder, like, to your point is the timing is probably been very, very calculated. And the economy today in the startup world, it's very, it's very,

volatile. And so you'll see a lot of times people will go out for that they will start the IPO process. And it's a long process. It's over, it usually takes for over a year of due diligence and getting everything set up. And then when the date comes, they'll change their mind. So it could happen that, you know, that's, that's what's going to happen to them. I just feel like there's a lot of lot for them to continue to share. And, Aaron, this is like the marketing side of like really, how do they, you know, they need to be able to continue to create a trustworthy insight standard because that's what they're all about, right? They need to, uh, this technology continue to be focused on being a calm technology. Like Chino said, I don't want to have a bunch of ringing,

dinging, buzzing, anything, right? But also, you know, how do we continue to build that member experience so that people can't live without their aura ring, right? And that's what gets others to come there, right? Because they'll be like, I would never have known that this is what I needed to do without my ring, giving me that guidance in the sense of using that data. And then at the end of the day, what every consumer, is concerned about is privacy, right? So they've really got, and health care privacy is huge, right?

There's HIPAA. There's all these things. So this is information that you're sharing and they've got, you know, if they're IPO and you know, they got a lot of partners. They're partnering with people. And so is it clear what my data is being used for? Here's something I've done for work that I'll never volunteer for again, writing a step-by-step process document. It's tedious. It's time-consuming. and after all that effort, it just kind of sits there, which is why I really like what today's sponsor Scribe has built for companies. Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500, and I've had a chance to see it in action.

Instead of stopping what you're doing to document a process, Scribe captures the process as you work, including clicks, steps, and screenshots and automatically turns it into a clear step-by-step guide that's ready to review and share. Scribes' AI can even look at that workflow and suggest where steps can be simplified or automated. And with the Guide Me feature,

anyone you choose can follow that same process with real-time on-screen instructions showing them exactly where to click. And don't worry, it can automatically redact sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers so you can share with confidence. Look, don't just document your process.

Why not find ways to make it better? To see what Scribe could look like for your organization, head to Scribe. How slash Fixed It and mention we fixed it for your first month of Scribe Capture Free on Select Plans. That's S-C-R-I-B-E-E-D-I-T. Today's episode is brought to you by What Not. I recently started shopping on What Not and I'm telling you it's fun.

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Yeah, I want to mix what you're both saying because they're brilliant points. Tino, I'm with you. Is it the right time for an IPO? Have they earned their way to, yeah, they've penetrated a market. They maybe created a category, at least be in the face of a category. Are they a household name to the point where it's IPO time? Maybe not, you know? They're going for a $15 billion dollar valuation.

If they sit around, is it going to go, what? I don't know. this might be their moment. So like Melissa's saying timing's everything. I've seen some cynical articles that are saying it's a it's a cash grab, cash out move for existing shareholders. We'll see how that happens. We'll see what happens there. But, you know, certainly the people that have bankrolled the company and have taken big risks on it deserve to have that bear out at some point. Maybe today's the day. But you know, I want to ask also you're talking about, I care about one data point.

I care about steps, right? Or tell me that one thing, maybe charge me a lower tier subscription. You know, to an IPO of $15 billion, they're sitting on something big. So if they report back to you one data point, it doesn't mean they're not collecting all the other data points. So for me, again, like, I'm weird with my dad. And if they're telling me that we're still going to collect it, like, again, I remember with your own, if you have an iPhone, you know, I never had step tracking at all.

And then one day after going to Japan and rocking 30,000 steps in a day, I turned it on. But what I was surprised to see is that it actually went back to all of the steps since when I actually purchased this phone, which was like two or three years prior to that. That scared me a little bit. So they were clearly tracking this. And when I did opt in, all of a sudden I had all these data points. So I do think it is going to be important for any wearable to be open. and honest about what they are tracking. I do think it's going to be important as laws come to effect as AI and, you know,

HIPAA laws, everything. There needs to be an opt-in. And I think you're going to lose the market. People are not going to be sharing their data information with you freely. And you can see this too in the mass kind of exodus of meta and all of these, you know, large companies are people saying, I don't want you to have my data anymore or I want to opt out. I don't think that's going to go away anywhere, especially as there's more AI, you know, hacking into things. Like, you know, I give an example of, you know, I had a friend who was pregnant,

hasn't told her work yet. Could you imagine if she, you know, had her data point out there in the world? And again, very, very niche, the likelihood of that happening, but it's that fear in that person could lose their job. So I think there's a corporate responsibility on ensuring that people are opting in. And I think that for all wearables, all data, that I think is where the legislation is moving towards, as things become more complex, as AI gets in there. And so I think to work around that, too, is that opt in.

Like, what are the things you want to do? Or maybe the first month, hey, we're collecting all your data and we'll give you a month free of the subscription, which is what they already do, so that you can see what works for you, what doesn't. Do you want to hear about your sleep? Do you want to hear about your heart? Do you want to hear about your stats, right?

And this is what it looks like when we give it to you. If you want, maybe you only care about your sleep data or your heart rate or whatever it is that they monitor. Then you check in on that and we will ensure until you click and outswise. I think having that option will give people who don't know aura or who are weary of wearables that brand trust that was built in. If they can build that in now, it'll be great. And we're talking about AI, AI is the future, right? So I think that's where the kind of the subscription comes in and the insights. But as well and often, hey, if you want the subscription, this is what it means if we give you the insight.

It's actually going to be running, we're pulling your thing through your data into a system. Are you into that? Yes or no. Here's what this looks like. Or I have the own proprietary one that hopefully doesn't get hacked with a bunch of MPSs. But I do think customer choice is going to be important. I think their selling point is that they are niche, and they're giving you data that you do want,

and I hope that they don't lose that. But I believe in ORA. And I think, I hope this isn't a cash grab. I will be purchasing one of their rings if they don't give us one. I think they should send them to us. Yeah. Right. I love what you just described,

because to me that's a fix. And what I would say is what I would call that is the data permission center. And one of the things that I think, you and I talked about this many times, but is that it has to be clear, crystal clear in not one of these legalese terms and conditions kind of things. like I love what you said about checkboxes, right? And it's very clear giving plain language dashboard of showing where your data is going, who has access, who if you want to turn it on, whether you can turn it off, and just you check the boxes and it's very clear. That would be great. And you can go back and say, oh, okay, I'm in a step challenge now. Now I want to check my heart rate and I want to check this and I didn't use to have that on there, right?

So I love that idea and also like make it as easy as possible so that have a list of all the partners that are, you know, who you are in partnership with and say, this is how we use your data for AI. We partner with Opus and Claude or whoever they, right? And if you do not want us to, please check here. Like, you know, I hate like the double negative kinds of, you know, like you've seen those documents where it's a trick. You're like, if I check no, does that mean yes? Yeah.

Yeah, the not not. It's kind of like election ballots, you know? Like, is it like, wait, is that? Am I saying yes, I want that or no, I don't want that? But what I'm wondering is if you say here's what's important to me, here's what I'm willing to opt into, here's what I want to know about. And again, like, give me the basic tier. subscription, don't give me the stuff I haven't asked for. Let's say I don't want my heart rate. My heart rate is sitting right there. Healthcare companies that want my anonymous heart rate

that are willing to pay top dollar for it. Is Oregon to say, are they going to say, maybe they have it, but are they going to say we won't track your heart rate or we'll gate keep your heart rate and we'll hold onto it for ourselves and you just won't have access to it? And we'll all agree that that's okay. I think that has to be clear, right? Clear language. Say we capture all that information because it's on your ring, right? But what information we share on your dashboard, your dashboard is personalized so you can decide what you want to see. And this is the data permission center and you've said, I do not want any of my data, XYZ sent to any of these vendors. Or you can say, you know what, the only vendor I want to send it to

is the American Heart Association, right? Like, and maybe there's a way that they can say that. Like, you know, it's a generalized data, you know, for blind studies. Sorry to push back, but two weeks from now, they could up, we great, great news, we just IPOed, we're bigger than ever. We have a new user agreement. Click here. And it's legalese and you just click at the bottom like you would for Apple Music. If you don't, your ring stops working.

If you do, you don't know exactly what you're in for. But they have the power here. I think they'll like everywhere has the power, but what we're seeing legislation moving towards and is giving people like data permissions, like there's legal things on that, right? And given that this is health data specifically, to cover their own butts,

if you don't want a class action lawsuit and to be sued continually over, people's private data being reaped, which is, again, it's one thing to say, oh, my data is not accurate and working on that to fix that allegedly, right? There's a different thing to say, hey, Melissa, Aaron, we actually sold your data on this really private thing that you might not want a worker to know, and it's out there. And it maybe wasn't anonymous because, you know, an AI came in and scrub that, you know, who knows, right? So I think all wearables, not just aura.

This is, you know, a caution to anyone that's collecting, you know, health data specifically. There is HIPAA. You do need consent. That's not going to go anywhere. And when it comes to customer trust, sure, you do that. There goes half of your team because I would immediately take off the aura ring and throw it out regardless of how much I spent.

I would not be, you know, opting into a subscription service knowing that you're literally buying my personal health data that I told you, didn't want to do, we're done. Like, that's the end of ORA, which again, or if you're listening, I don't think you would ever do that, I'd hope. Otherwise, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot in two to three years. There'll be another company that does the right thing that will beat you. So if you still want to be the market leader, like again, we're not, we don't even,

we haven't even mentioned another ring company. I know that there are there because I looked at comparables. ORA is still the brand recognition. If you want to keep that, brand trust is. something that you're going to have to build in a world where people are looking at other data's. And if you guys can be at the forefront of that, you will go a lot further and you will have a lot lasting impact than any other wearable company, period. Because what they have is gold. And if they can stick to their brand and kind of their ethos, they are going to win.

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And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was We Fixed It, You're Welcome. It's the best way to support the show. Today's episode is brought to you by What Not. I recently started shopping on What-Nod, and I'm telling you it's fun. Even though I ordered from different sellers, everything shipped really fast. I was practically waiting at the door to see what I scored. One thing was a watch, and I keep getting compliments on it.

I wouldn't have even known it existed if I hadn't discovered it on What-Nod. Plus, I got a great deal, and if you're buying on What-Not, you'll be having a good time, too. If you're like me, you'll be discovering products, interacting with actual people, and finding things you love without paying full retail prices. If you've got something to sell, you should check it out too. Now when I walk into shops, I find myself thinking they could be selling on whatnot. They would be connecting directly with buyers, showing off their products and building a community of customers who keep coming back. And you can too.

I'd absolutely recommend checking it out, whether you're shopping or selling. And speaking of selling, search What Not, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the app store. Download, and you can start selling right away. Yeah, and I think that, like, as most companies, a lot of companies out there say, and this is what ORA does say, that they do not sell your data, but they also say they can be used to improve AI and machine learning features and may be shared with authorized service providers and partners. So they're not selling your data, but they may be sharing it with others. And so to all of us, the challenge is as the person wearing the ring, I need to understand and have comprehension of what that, you know, terms and conditions looks like to know what am I, what am I agreeing to?

So to my point is having that in a very friendly and. an understandable place where I can opt in and opt out because, you know, you can do that with a lot of companies, you know, I've done that with a whole bunch of different products and services where you opt out to not provide your information to their partners. Okay. That's fine, right? But it's not clear, probably for most people. And to your point, Aaron, like when you get an upgrade to the software, you just, you have to hit, accept, and you accept. Otherwise, it doesn't, your data is not showing up on your dashboard anymore. So it is, you know, the sanctity of data is really what, or as business models around. And so we really have to focus on how do you make that experience not something

for the customer to have to be jumping through hoops just to understand. It needs to be something that, you know, is really, you know, important. I mean, I think that one of the things to think about with somebody like ORA, right, this longitudinal look at data really increases both opportunity and responsibility for them, but they also need to realize that if you have, I think they have like crazy 42 billion hours of data already, and they want to use it to improve models and useful services, it means that customers need to be contributing, but they have to be transparent with that,

that we know that that's where it's going. And I'm not accusing them of anything. I'm just thinking about a $15 billion company. They take on a bunch of new shareholders that are really excited about the trajectory of the company. They put their money behind it. Incremental growth is not exciting. You know, they sell a few more rates.

and it goes up a half a percent, that's not a cause for celebration. If they're sitting on a really valuable asset that's underutilized and they're going, we can't wait to deploy this. Everyone's going to have a field day and get a huge paycheck on it. That's what shareholders want. So what are they sitting on? They're sitting on data. Of course.

And so here's the thing. I think the answer here is one of two things. The first thing that's never going to go into it. There needs to be consent, right? We need to be able to opt in with everything. that's literally law. So there's that piece. And I think, cool, you want to sell this data,

and I'm cool with you giving my data anonymously to whatever AI. You're right, this is a billion dollar industry, and my $5 a month isn't actually cutting to that bottom line. Give me the free subscription. I'm happy to opt in to that if I'm going to get the free service. And if I don't, maybe I pay for that, right?

there's that option. So you're kind of hopefully influencing consumer behavior. But at the end of the day, it's the consumer that has the choice and is aware of that. Because again, if it's free and I'm not having to, but if I'm having to pay for it and you're telling me you're profiting from my data that you're making me pay to give, that doesn't make sense. So you would need to incentivize your consumer to do that. And again, the cost of what the subscription is compared to the amount that you can. And, you know, if you are looking to sell that data, it's so much higher. So I wouldn't be incurring that cost on the customer as an idea.

Again, no matter what you do, there has to be an opt-in feature. I think maybe for shareholders down the line that's there. But I think the stronger argument, because, again, there will also be a lot of people who are into, you know, sharing their data with AI. People do that currently. And I don't think that there will still be a critical mass of people who will. want to do that. But in terms of ORA as a brand and kind of winning the lion's share of the market when it comes to wearables outside of just rings, but as a whole category, customer trust is going to be very important to build in this day and age. And if they can nail that by

giving customers the opportunity to opt in where they need to, you are going to come out ahead. because guess what? You're sitting on all this information because your brand is you're able to trust ORA. The second they lose that, there goes half their data. There goes half of their people walking away. And if they can't uphold that, great. You're selling data, but now it's half of what data

you would have had if you did a better job. You could have had 20 times more because, again, as we talked about, they're still not known globally. The name ORA is not a globally, recognized name yet. And so, you know, if they want that to happen, because customer trust cannot, you know, they cannot let that go. Liz is going to dictate our fix. So they've got to go out and make some more money. All right. So

four options, probably more, but they can do branded partnerships and logo rings and NFL rings and things. So we'll take, that's another thing to explore. But do they introduce new products, which we only need so many rings? If you buy one, you're in. but another product and have it be just as big as the ring that is now or supplemental to it, that it's worth investing in. So that's option one, new product. Option two, do they raise subscription prices and monetize their existing customer base? Number three, do they sell a bunch more rings and go with what they have and just go for market

saturation? Or number four, do they monetize anything else that's an underutilized asset, meaning probably their data and figure out we didn't sell it before but now if you opt in if we put it in big bold type if we're going to share it with good partners the american heart association designated partners we all we can all get behind we're going to share slash sell your data anonymously or not are you cool with it new product raise subscription prices sell a bunch of rings or sell an asset that they're being careful around what are we going to do here I'll add to that, put a pin in that.

Data permissions, very important. Privacy, very important. Keep that all on the table. Don't take that away from your customers. Don't suddenly put in the small type that none of us understand what it is and we agree to anyway. And then there's a class action lawsuit later. That's bad for everybody. One more thing to add, I'll put my fix in there.

At some point, they're doing great. At some point, they might get in over their heads and find out this is something they don't want to deal with. Maybe IPO is not the right move at the right time, even though the money people say it is. My fix sell to Apple. Apple's got our headphones. They have our ears. They have our wrists. They have our phones.

They have everything else. Apple can come up with their own ring. But Apple just buy aura. Don't deal with IPO. And maybe get out of the game for, you know, put it to another company that knows what to do with these data privacy. regulations and consumer growth. And if it's ORA by Apple, ooh, that's new cachet. So that's got my vote.

Putting it all together. Melissa, do we fix it? I love that last fix that you brought up, Aaron, because I was going to say growth to me will come from more than just selling more rings and collecting more data. I don't think that's the answer. It's going to come from showing customers month after month that ORA helps them make better decisions with less effort. So my fix for aura is to lean into it's a unique product position and to build a company around that idea that a wearable should make life feel more manageable,

not more monitored, right? So where the Apple Watch can be advice that keeps you connected to the world or can be the device that helps you stay connected to yourself. So a partnership with Apple right there is amazing, Aaron. I think that's that ding ding, ding. But, Orra only earns that position if it makes that experience calm, interprets the data in a way people can understand and act on and treats every biometric signal as something a customer is entrusted to it and not something that the company is entitled to use against. Chino, what do you say? Did we fix it? I think like the checkboxes that ORA needs to do to let us opt in, whether they're going to

sale the data or what data we actually as consumers want to see. There's a few checkboxes that I agree with. I believe in ORA as a company. So I think I do like this Apple idea. For me, timing, it's all about timing. They are not big enough yet. And I think that they have the capability to get there themselves. And if you're going to go to Apple eventually down the line,

I'd rather you do that for 20 times more than what you would today. And I think that they have the capabilities to do that by themselves. Am I the CEO and founder of ORA? No, that's a life decision that they need to make as well as their board and their stakeholders. But if I were them, I would hold out because I think there's so much more runway for ORA. I think remember who you are, remember who your consumers tend to be. and also understanding that I agree, maybe it's a larger play for Apple one day, but I love the fact that they actually are independent from Apple.

Almost every other tech device I have is Apple. So I actually like the idea just a bit of diversity there and being their own brand. And I think they can stand on their own two legs for a long while. And I think they should continue to do that and remember who they are and sponsor us. All right, I'm with you. So you're holding out. The IPO may have happened already again by the time of this drop, so it may be a done deal. But you still have to make money.

Do you raise subscription prices on your existing member base and provide more value? Do you go out and say we're nowhere near market saturation? We've got to sell a bunch more rings. Do you monetize your data in new ways with opt-ins and consent? Or do you come up with a new product? It's a pinky ring. It's a bracelet. It's a something else.

It's by aura. How are you going to make shareholders happy? I think doing some of those, like a mixture of all those, checking a few of those boxes. And, you know, I think, again, the big thing is the market saturation that is, again, they're only 2% of wearables right now. So that's a lot of market share that they can get. And again, as someone who has actively looked for aura, which is like I'm a rare consumer in that sense, I think there's a lot of people who can, like, again, their brand recognition can be so much more with more commercials, more all of the marketing, like hire incredible team and make that from

two to ten, right? I think they can do that quite easily in a year. So, all right, or you have a split vote. You have Chino saying do some of everything. You have, it hold your ground. You have me and Melissa's saying Apple's not such a bad idea. If you want one customer and set up a whole bunch of customers and some people want to get their payday, it could happen. So it's your move. We'll see what you do from here. But either way, that's going to polish off this episode.

If we fix it, you're welcome. A big thank you to Chino and Melissa for your brilliance, aura. If you're listening, send them both rings so we can see for ourselves. And thank you to our listeners, our fixaholics. As we all know, companies can make really confusing decisions and at times frustrating ones. But don't worry, keep your own biarr rhythms and check.

We're on it. If there's a company you want us to tackle, take it off your mind, send it into we fixeditpod.com, and we might get to yours. There's no shortage of companies to fix, so keep those suggestions coming, and we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It, you're welcome.

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