We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Victoria's Secret Struggles: Uplifting an Intimate Empire

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

For many, Victoria’s Secret represented the epitome of femininity, confidence, and glamour. But as our culture shifted toward authenticity and inclusivity, the brand has struggled to evolve. In this episode, we break down how the most iconic lingerie empire dulled its shine, what their attempted rebrand is missing, and what it would take to rebuild trust with today’s consumer. We explore the business, the culture, the fashion, and the future. Is it too late for Victoria’s Secret to reinvent itself? Or is there still power in the fantasy? We break down: ● How Victoria's Secret rose to cultural dominance ● Why the brand struggled as beauty standards shifted ● The competition from Skims, Spanx, and next-gen lingerie brands ● The challenges of rebranding when the market has already moved on ● What it really means for a company to be inclusive beyond marketing ● Why transformation needs to happen internally, not just on the runway We also explore the path forward, proposing ways for the brand to honor its heritage while embracing a broader definition of femininity and confidence. This episode is part culture, part business strategy, part brand therapy. Key Takeaways ● Consumers today are not just buying products. They want to see themselves reflected and respected. ● Performative inclusion will not work. Authenticity requires representation in leadership, design, and decision-making. ● The fantasy does not need to disappear. It just has to widen to include a broader spectrum of customers. ● Brands that survive cultural shifts are the ones that act proactively, not reactively. Subscribe for more deep dives where we fix big business problems with fresh perspectives. Links • Website – www.wefixeditpod.com • Follow us on: Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wefixeditpod LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wefixeditpod YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@WeFixedItPod If you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends! Keep listening to find out how we fix companies and put them back better than we found them. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, welcome back. This topic was brought to us. We love your suggestions. And if there's something people want us to fix, I mean, we're on it. It's what we do. Today, we are going to spill all of Victoria's secrets. There's a lot happening here. We're going to put it all on the table, hash it out, and then give the company back better that we found it. So let's start with the fashion show, which is a big deal for the company. If you've been anywhere on social, you might know that the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show happened recently. And there was a lot going on there. had a pregnant lady walking the runway, Nepo babies, an Olympic gymnast, a K-pop takeover.

There was Missy Elliott. Attempts at body positivity. There was something for everyone or no one? I don't know. With callbacks to the past in efforts to modernize the company and shake off past stigmas, it's really hard to tell what Victoria's secret even is right now as a brand and as a cultural influence.

The fashion shows one component, but that's just scratched from the surface of this story. There's a lot more to this. So fortunately, Melissa's going to help us navigate the situation and then we'll fix it. What do you have for us, Melissa? Well, let's talk about a fantasy that was worth billions until it suddenly wasn't. So for decades, Victoria's Secret wasn't just a lingerie retailer. It was a cultural force.

The fashion show was at Super Bowl and the Angels were at superstar athletes, creating an empire that at its peak dominated the marketplace. But the empire was built on a same. single narrow idea of beauty, and when the world changed and demanded authenticity and inclusivity, Victoria's Secret famously doubled down, and they didn't really change with the times. The backlash was brutal. The fantasy was shattered. So to understand the sheer scale of the problem that we're facing today and that Victoria's Secrets is facing, you have to look at the money. Whilst Victoria's Secret was clinging to its past, a revolution was happening in the

in this very category it invented. Here's the financial reality check. Victoria's Secret Today is still a giant with about $6 billion in annual revenue, but it's a giant on shaky ground. Its net income has shrunk. A profit that they achieve is largely due to closing stores and cutting costs, not from exciting growth. And you see that in a lot of businesses, not just in this business.

The competition, now you're looking at disruptors. Kim Kardashian Skims, a brand evolved on solving the real world problems of shape and inclusivity that Victoria's Secret somewhat ignored is now valued at a staggering $4 billion. Sarah Blakely Spanx, another problem-solving powerhouse, was recently acquired for $1.2 billion. So let's be clear, investors are betting $5 billion that the future belongs to brands, like skims and spanks and not to the old Victoria's Secret playbook. Sorry, Kadira. This is the battlefield.

Victoria's Secret has since canceled a lot of their marketing, a lot of what they have been doing. They've purged their leadership. They've tried to do all of these different types of things, including launching a new inclusive era with their current comeback show, which included angel ambival. ambassadors and like Aaron mentioned, they had an array of personalities and body types that were represented. So the multi-billion dollar question we're tackling today is can this legacy brand built on what they originally had truly pivot to become a brand for everybody? Or is it too late and has the market and the culture already moved on, taking that $5 billion into the future? The runway show was the easy part.

So now we have to see if the business can actually walk the talk. And I would say, you know, we really, as a group, have a big problem to solve. So let's get fixing. Well, also, I'm glad you said legacy brand, which is true. The company started in 1977. It's been bought and sold. It's gone public. We're on the

still on the verge of what we could call a rebrand. It started in, we'll say 20, 23. We're two years in. So for a legacy company that's been around as long as it has to go into a new phase, like the one we're in now, it's still, we could call it early days. I'd say these are like the messy years where they're figuring out what relevance is

and how they play culturally. And we're, I think we're jumping in, like, in the middle. You know, we move the needle to the middle of the record. or somewhere in the muck, you know. So I think we're seeing some things play out in real time here. Yeah. And I, you know, I would say, like, it's really interesting this whole conversation around Victoria's Secret and to see where they are right now because the brand, you know, I think has been, you know, emblematic of this bigger cultural conversation, right, around beauty and inclusion and relevance and what all that means, right? Like for decades, as you both pointed out, like Victoria's Secret really defined this very narrow idea, but an idea of femininity, right?

Tall, skinny, flawless, stereotypically beautiful that a lot of people, you know, admired but also criticized, right, for being unrealistic, right? As we're discussing today. And so I think that definition of femininity and beauty that they have owned or at least crafted, it worked. it worked for a really long time. We have to acknowledge that. But I think, you know, and especially like if you think back to like the 90s and the 2000s, they owned it. But as we know, and as we've discussed many shows before, culture moves fast and consumer expectations change quickly and they will change dramatically on you. And, you know, we've talked about, use the word evolution in so many shows before. I don't know a company that if you don't evolve, if you don't respond to your

consumers, your customers, your employees, just your stakeholders in general. One, another company will eat your lunch. And two, it is a matter of time before you are going to go out of business, right? And so today, you know, women want to see themselves reflected authentically. I think that's what it's about. And it's not just in the models, right? It is not just in the models. It is in this entire creative process. It is the CEO. It is in the executive leadership. It is, you know, the photographers. It is in the vendors. That's really what, you know, when we talk about, you know, transformation and authenticity and understanding and representing different perspectives, you know, Melissa, you touched on this, but the runway, that's the easy

part, right? We're talking about something deeper and bigger that has to be long-term and sustainable before, especially folks today with so many companies that have been pegged as being performative and, you know, woke-washing or whatever the term is, that's going to be the difference. different. Here's the other thing, right? And we'll keep the show rated G so that everybody can listen to it. But like, I don't think it's necessarily about getting rid of the fantasy. When you walk into a Victoria's Secret store, yeah, there's the kind of everyday underwear and bras and panties, but there is a part of the store that is about fantasy, the lingerie. You're not just walking around in that stuff every day all day. So it's not about getting rid of the fantasy. I think what the company has to focus on is how are they going, to be inclusive about who makes up that fantasy. Does every woman, regardless of shape, size, ability, background, whatever that might look like, does she see herself in the fantasy?

Or does it appear that she's trying to live into someone else's fantasy? Don't get rid of the fantasy. Just include me in it. Well, yeah. Oh, go ahead, Melissa. I was just going to say that I think that you bring up a lot of really good points. I think the moment of truth is really going to. be in the stores on the rack and what the actual customer is able to get their hands on.

Because if you're selling something that says we're inclusive to all body types, to all fantasies, to all of these things, and yet when you go into the Victoria Secret store or the pink store, you only can find this size. That's a problem, right? So like I said, when I said the runway was really easy. What I meant was the runway was curated. The runway, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, those, they were fitted. All those models, whether they were angel Reese as, you know, a six foot tall athlete, or, you know, Ashley Graham as a plus size model.

They were all fitted to look amazing on the runway. They didn't go into a store and say, hey, give me that off the wrong. So you're, you know, you're sitting there, you know, hoping that your brand is going to become this authentic, inclusive brand and, you know, and relay it to Kedera to the fantasy of all. But that's going to be a very different operational issue that you're going to have and a product issue that you're going to have. And so, you know, when we compare them, is it, I mean, maybe it's not fair to compare them to skims or to Spinks who has a very niche model. right? They're going for a specific thing. And, you know, Victoria's Secret has long term, you know, like in their catalog, they used to have clothes and swimsuits and all these kinds of things. So what kind of inventory and product length can, you know, really actually deliver on? So have they expanded

their size ranges? Have they made all those available in stores or just online? So when a plus size person walks into the mall, they're not able to actually get it. But maybe that's okay if they made a promise that we are going to make sure we have a fit concierge and we're going to get you the best fit possible and we're going to curate that fit to you. Right. And then we're going to send it to your house. So, you know, I mean, maybe that's what they need to do. I mean, you know, I always laugh. I I always think about the early days, and it's still the same, I think, of Victoria's Secret. Like my kids and my husband, nobody would want to go there because it smelled, because it was so powerful, the perfume and stuff.

And I remember getting like a nightgown or something from my family. I'm not sure it was my husband, but like from my family. And I remember my son saying, we ran in and had our nose plugged because we couldn't handle the smell. But like, again, I, you know, that's the thing. the point, but I do think it's going to be in delivering this idea that they're trying to, again, re-transform themselves into. Yeah. And I think absolutely all of that, Melissa, and I think, you know, Aaron, answer your question, right? Like, I think it's time will tell, right? Like we're seeing with so many of these brands that, you know, the question is like, is it performative? Is it

authentic? I think when it comes down, to, you know, answering that question or thinking about what really is authentic, is it real, is it pandering or not? It's about, you know, is your work visible, but also is it verifiable? And that's why, you know, when we talk about, like, the runway, that's the external. Like you said, we keep saying that. And I think, yep, it's true. Let's double down on that. That's the easy part. That's the external. It's, you know, easier. You can put some models on the runway. You can have diversity there. But, like, we also have to look at what has happened. internally, right? And so just from like a people and culture standpoint, you know, they have to make sure,

as every company, I preach this all the time, like you have to have that representation at every level, right? Just as Melissa, you were saying. And so that's, you know, diversity across leadership. It's in design. It's in merchandising. It's in marketing. It's creative direction. Right. When people making the decisions reflect your audience, you know, that authenticity kind of, you them naturally follows, right? So I think they also have to, you know, we see companies do this. It's not new, but like publishing those transparent diversity metric. Like, are you actually sticking to them? It's okay to stumble. It's okay. We expect that it's going to happen. The consumer's smart and savvy, but like don't try to hide what's happening, right? Who's in leadership?

Who's being promoted? Who's being hired? Are you tracking them? Are they getting the stretch assignments? Are they being visible? Like, that's where people start to say, okay, wait a minute, Let's pay attention to this company because they actually are committed to this. Along those lines, I think it's also about voice and influence. You know, who is actually able to speak up and share creative ideas? And, you know, do you have employees from different backgrounds? They're empowered to kind of change some of those old norms. We don't want to discount the legacy because it's what built the company.

But are you bringing in people that can say, hey, can I challenge that idea that we've kind of been circling the drain for the last 10, 20 years and things? about something different. And that requires psychological safety. We hear that term a lot in companies, but it is it is so true because if people can't speak up internally without fear of pushback or tokenization, well, then there you go, right? I think also it's about values, right? Are your values embedded in your systems? And does everybody in the company from the CEO to, you know, the executive assistance to the janitor and the cleaning crew to your creative team follow them. Right again, that's when we talk about being inclusive stocks, being performative, and it becomes operational. And then I think lastly, it is about just being transparent and accountable. Again, you know,

as I was saying earlier, like your consumer, you know, the public, even your employee, just any stakeholder is going to expect that they're going to be stumbles, but it's how you're talking about, like, hey, we got this wrong. We're going to be honest about it. We tried it. We, you know, intended to do something well-meaning, but the impact we understand was not what it should have been. And so here's what we are going to do to fix it. And then you point to all the other things that I just talked about. And again, that's when you start to build trust with the public. So I think those are the types of things that can make a difference. So I love it. It says not just, do you, does your product fit me. Do you have something that's going to work for me? It's do I find myself represented

in this company? Do I align at all levels or many levels? So beyond just, you know, do I see myself represented in the very front end, you know, the very top layer of this company? It's throughout. Do I feel if I walk into a store, do I belong there? If I see the messaging or the corporate communication, is that reflective of what I stand for? That's a big reinvention for, you know, for a company of this magnitude. And I think that Kadira, God, I love what you just said. I think that one of the things that this company in particular, the authenticity and not being performative, which you said, is so key because they've keep like switching, like

their marketing strategies. So it doesn't feel authentic, right? Like putting up, you know, like putting these athletes out there feels like, okay, these are hot athletes right now that we all love, right? So, okay, great. Thank you. Because I know who they are. I know these K-pop stars. I know, you know, whatever.

But like it doesn't really feel like they've embraced or they've even kind of come out with like what do they stand for. We talk about these mission-based, you know, and if it's a fantasy, then let's have it be a fantasy. but like what was the fantasy that those those ambassadors were showcasing right you know so how did that how did that you know kind of hit me in the heart and make me want to go out there and do that right you know so in terms of like go out there and shop so i really love what you said because i do feel like this specifically when we say being authentic we we say that a lot but this is truly one of those cases where they need to really decide how they want to address this. And, you know, I loved how you also, you know, brought up that, you know, there's nothing wrong with the fantasy. There's nothing wrong with the lingerie and being sexy and all of that

thing and what, what they're, you know, basically, basically have been. Because that's not what Spanx and, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, about, they're more about building confidence that. Yeah. Good. Who, in who you are. So, like, this is a new. And, you. And, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, culture and what does Victoria's secret want to be? So how do they build the fantasy and embed confidence, right? So maybe that's what they need to redefine their purpose as. They're not just selling a fantasy anymore. They're selling the foundation for real life confidence, right?

And confidence is a fantasy, right? That allows them to expand into these other high growth areas. like shapeware, et cetera, et cetera, but also like continue to create beautiful lingerie and loungeware, but that's also functional for people of all shapes and sizes, right? And all different types of fantasies, right? So I really love how you said that. I think the bigger part for us is how do they fix that and how do they actually, you know, move into kind of a new brand umbrella.

And Aaron, I don't know, like, I feel like their brand. it's so strong, right? Like when you say, like, a lot of people just say Victoria's Secret when they mean underwear. They don't, yeah, when I, and I, like, you, you go to any target, you go anywhere else to buy underwear. And they do now the same thing that Victoria's Secret was the first to do, right? Which is buy five pieces of underwear for X amount of price, right? They have the, like, the nice little lingerie drawers that you can pull out. for all the different sizes so you can find your, you know, your size and the colors you want and

things like that. And so, yeah, I feel like they built that, like, so that you, when you go into a department store that is not a Victoria Secret, you feel like you're in Victoria Secret because you're buying, you know, you're buying the underwear and they're using the same type of, you know, displays. They're using the same type of pricing models. They're using the same product things, right? Like, oh, this is, you know, shapewear or whatever, whatever they're using, you know, calling it hipster huggers or whatever. And it just seems like they've built that, but they've got to be able to think about the future because I feel like they're, you know, all of these other niche brands are poking holes in what they're able to provide. And I wonder,

I mean, I don't know if pink was there a, tempt it more like young, you know, it was less lingerie, more like sports bras and things like that. I don't know, but I feel like, you know, they have such a foundation to start with. Yeah. Melita, I think you totally hit it on the head about what the crossroads is and what were the painful things that we're seeing play out is. They want it both ways. So, you know, we were talking about expanding the product line. And if you're going to run a $6 billion company, let alone, you know, sustain, let alone grow, you got to move a lot of units, right?

So if they're going and if they're making this brand promise. And again, we're like, 2003, we're not that far into that promise. If they are serious about it, we're going to be representative of you. We're going to have more variety. We're going to have more sizes in our inventory. So if they keep going the expanded product line to fit, you know, everybody and everybody type. Then you're essentially at underwear warehouse.

And I don't know if it's trademark or something, but it wants to shop there. They want the, they want the curated kind of experience. And like you, Melissa, like you said, like they've created a shorthand for how you do this, that other retailers can copy because it exists now. And consumers know how to navigate the situation.

So you can go that everything for everybody and, you know, may as well shop it at Home Depot for underwear. Or you can go the unattainable way in the high fashion and unrealized standards of beauty that no one can no one can hit right which they're still doing like we're seeing both things play out in the market at the same time and no wonder people are confused and saying what is this company even that's where we're at right now

well i think that there's an opportunity cadera you really made me kind of switch my my ideas about this but like what if we really have you know really lean into the fantasy park okay, right? Like what their foundational, you know, lingerie, like the sexiest lingerie ever. And they partner with like very modern types of situations like Love Island, The Bachelor. Okay, hear me out. You know, The Bachelor, they have a, I don't even watch The Bachelor anymore, but I know they have like the Overnight Suite or, or some like thing when he gets down to three people. You know, what if it was the Victoria's Secret Suite? Right?

And they, they provide amazing lingerie for, you know, the contestants or on Love Island or what, you know, all these shows that are really big. Love is Blind, like all the things right now, right? You know, and what if, you know, really, they continue to focus on that. And then in their stores, they have like this fantasy suite area, which is all these amazing, beautiful, curated, you know, looks from their different partnerships of lingerie, right? And then they have their concierge service, right? Which is they have a fit guarantee right now already. Like you can go and get measured. But like they continue to do that and like, you know, double down on really who they were to begin with.

I don't know. Maybe that's what they name. And I, this is going to be crazy, I think, too, because look, you know, if you're an employee of a company, especially like Victoria's Secret, do you want your colleagues seeing you in your underwear? But I just think about, I think about, you know, how do they bring the lived experience and the why, I guess, of the employee front and center, right? Like, I think there is something. And however they might want to do that again, because, you know, that can be. really interesting, again, working for a company, but like most of the employees for that company have a why. Why do you work there? Again, it's an iconic brand. It's a legacy brand. Is there a

storytelling opportunity even there? Right? Because I'm guessing here, but like I imagine there's probably a little bit of clash or mismatch at times with employees and what is going on with the brand and how it's evolving or not. And so, you know, is there an opportunity for them to, you know, even do some sort of campaign with employees and just understanding like their why for being involved with this campaign. It may not even be about them getting, you know, naked. Again, I'm kind of even like going back to our, the conversation we had about Jaguar, right, that being a legacy brand and how you bring those employee stories or long-time customer

stories into the mix. That is an opportunity to tell real, you know, stories, real humans, right, that had long been shopping at Victoria's Secret, how do you bring them in? I mean, think about, like, we have some of those, you know, beautiful, mature models in their 70s, right? How cool of a campaign would it be if you're a long-term customer to be? Like, that to me is saying, it's fantasy. I'm still sexy, but I'm a real woman. So, yeah. Yeah, I think that you've hit a really great opportunity for them. So, like, to really make it, I'm a, I'm a documentary official. She and Anna. I love to watch them all the time. But creating something that almost has that feel because

there are a lot of people out there who would watch this. And so like behind the wings, right? You know, and the wings and have it be like a documentary style thing. And it talks and you take five of the, five of the angel ambassadors. So you take a Megan Rapino, you take an Ashley Graham who just had kids, you know, she's got three kids or four kids or something like that, you know, and a day in her life. And when she got the phone call and they asked her to be a model again on the runway, what did she think? And like, how does she wear?

You know, what does she wear and what does she put together, right? I love what you say. And then, like, a total behind the scenes at corporate. Yeah. Right. And then fighting in the boardroom and then saying, like, oh, no, like, how are we going to fit this person? And then, like, kind of hearing, like, what actually goes in.

into creating the sausage, you know, like a lot of times we don't want to know. We just want the end result. I love what you're saying because it makes it the fantasy real for real people. That's right. Or just ambassadors. And so that's right. I love that kind of behind the scenes, a curated story, driving, you know, and talking about the challenges, right? Like, you know, I'm sure I've been at the table and I'm the only person that looks like this. Right. And it's and I, you know, and you have those moments in time where you're like, gosh, we're selling, you know, underwear and lingerie and foundations. And there are 10 men and two women here. And the dear women are in HR and marketing. You know what I mean? Not on the product side. They're not on the operation side. They're not on the finance side. And. you're telling me how we should be like building this. So I love what you have to share because I do think, again, that gets to that authenticity.

And I feel like if people could see the struggle, they actually, they root. You root for an underdog. And it, it's nostalgia, right? Like, you know, I was so excited when I got to got enough money saved from babysitting to be able to go to Victoria's Secret because that was like, wow. Like, that's a big deal. right? You know? And so like,

I think you could get people to buy into that more. We, and willing to be like, I want to participate in this because I don't want this legacy brand to go away. I don't want it to all become underwear warehouse, right? Yep. Right. Well,

and I like, I'm in if they turn the camera on themselves, you know, and we don't know the exact composite of those rooms. I'm guessing they're not quite as homogenous as they used to be in the 80s or early 90s or, you know, but if they make their people, the center of the conversation, and they are, let's say they're all one flavor. Like, people are going to point that out pretty quick.

So they're going to have to, you know, think about who's representative, again, not just the final mile on the runway, but at all stages of the company and the decisions, especially if they make their people, not just angel ambassadors, but make everyone an ambassador. I like what you're going. Where are you going with that? Yeah. Here's what it takes to create the fantasy. I think there's something there.

And it's, and it is a way of having it both ways. Look, sometimes we're going to put on wings and prints around. That's part of what we are. And the rest of the time, we're people. We're regular people. And here's how we live. And here's how we argue. And here's, yeah, Kudier, like you said, like, here's, here's the ingredients that go into the maintaining or upholding those moments of fantasy.

That's right. And I think it's a great reminder. to, you know, connecting the dots of the boardroom and not even necessarily just the boardroom, but like the product team, you know, everyone to the ultimate customer. And sometimes we forget and we forget where we add value, right? Like your voice adds value, right? What you do helps. And ensuring that it's shown and that it's understood is.

so important. And I, so I love, I love this idea of like, what's behind the scenes. And I think that, you know, in an age of mass information, right, we are in an age where you can Google, chat, whatever, every, every, Wikipedia, we can do all the things. It's really sometimes, it's sometimes that we need to put that story out ourselves and not have that story be put upon us. Right. So, like, I feel like this is a great opportunity for them to drive the narrative and try to explain, like, even explain like all the different changes and how they, how they've been trying to course correct and what's worked and what's not worked. Because in their mind, they may be like, we're being super successful because people are talking about us again, which is, again, true, right? You know, that's true. We're talking about them.

But, you know, I love this idea of like, there's so much more behind the scenes that's going on. that no one really knows. Yeah. Every company wants branded content, too. Then they want it to be a hit. You have the Lego show. You have an Airbnb show. You have, you know, I wouldn't be too surprised

if there's not a behind the scenes, Victoria's Secret show in the work somewhere, or they've been pitched it 100 times. But I don't, you know, I like what you're saying. Like, do it with a level of transparency and humility and own your mistakes and do it in public. Like, I love when brands do that. Yeah.

Yeah. Put down the protective veil and say, look, here's what we're all about. It's risky at a company of this size. And it takes a little bit of egos putting aside and to be that vulnerable. But it can work. It can work big time. Yeah. And I think that they probably, I'm certain, I mean, they have Victoria's Secret rewards and things like that.

So I'm sure that they do some sort of customer foreign. and things like that. So even having like an understanding of what loyal, loyal customers, you know, that have been there for many, many years say about why they still keep coming back, right? And is it a product probably? Yes. Is it, you know, the fit guarantee? Is it what what is it about it that makes them come back? And then also what are the things that they're concerned about, right? Like they're concerned that they don't see shape where like they want or whatever, whatever it might be, you know, it would be really, I think this is a really great way to be an authentic brand and showing kind of the struggles of the choices that they have to make because they're hard,

right? Yeah, they're hard. This is a good one. I like it. Good job, Kadira. I'll go, Didera. part. You know, I think, you know, Melissa, to your point, we just, we live in, you know,

with social media and chat GPT. I was looking the other day and someone had created their own, I'm blanking on the word, but like used AI to create their own persona. It wasn't even a real person, gorgeous woman, and she was running a social media page behind, you know, I mean, we live in this day and age of like, what's even real? And there's just a lot of questions about what's real and everything is curious. and how am I at work on a Monday, but you're on a yacht? What do you do for a living? We're not at work. And everybody's showing their highlight reels and things like that. But I think on the flip side of that, we're all hungry. We keep using that word authenticity, but we're hungry for authenticity. We're hungry to see the reel. We're hungry to see the blunders, the behind the scenes. We're hungry to connect with real, with people who look like us every day, going about their lives, just trying to take care of. of their families and be the best that they can be.

And so I think this is an opportunity for Victoria's Secret, again, to kind of mesh the fantasy and illusion that they created that, again, we don't want to go away. But there is something so rich about them being able to kind of, for, you know, even a moment, whether like you said, it's a documentary or some sort of vignette or a show or whatever, just pull the woolback for a little bit and let people see inside. I think that could go such a long way. Yep. Yeah.

totally and especially like like cadarius you were talking about the AI generated people you know and before up till now the unattainable beauty standards were these models and angels but now they're people that aren't real you know you heard about this Tilly Norwood the fake actress that's getting signed by all the there are all the agencies are fighting over her to put her in movies and commercials and things but that's you know that's that's the tip of the iceberg like the unattainable beauty standards are going to be people that aren't real so you can you can take a step away from that and say, look, we're, yes, there's, there's a fantasy at the heart of it, but there's attainable beauty, whether it's every day or whether it's these moments of glamour and high fashion, like, I think connecting it back to attainability is going to go a long way with this, you know, with moving forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. All right. So I think we're ready to fix this. So if we, if we go more, toward the idea that yes, we can, you know, we, we could have those, those moments of, like I said, putting ourselves in the spotlight, putting on the wings, being ultra

glamorous, that's bad. Don't throw that out. That's hard. That's part of what we are been all about for a long time. And widen the, the net of who's accepted into what we'll call the standards of beauty. If you, if you are making not just overtures, but real commitments to body, positivity. Like, again, we're two years into that. Let's see where you go with that. Let's see where you go in terms of embracing your power users, right? Your longtime loyal

customers. Let's hear their stories. Why they stayed when they came to you, why they stayed with you. And as always, you know, make sure you have decision makers, diversity and representation and decision makers at all levels, not just

that final mile. Oh, the reality shows. Partner with, But you could be on every, you know, for the brand integration part, they could be on pretty much any reality show they want. And they'll, I think shows would gladly take them. That's a good place to be because it, you know, not the reality is reality. We all know that reality shows,

but it connects it to the day to day and it connects it to a heightened reality and creates people that sometimes superstars, sometimes C-LIS or D-LIS out of regular people who can come out with some, with a following and with some cashiered, and they're pretty cheap. Like when they first land into in the spotlight, they could get a bunch of ambassadors like really fast, right? So

they could monopolize a lot, like just the reality show gamut. I think they do pretty well there. So if we throw all this into the company and say, hey, how about it? Well, Melissa, I'll come back to you. Kadea, did we fix it? I think we totally fixed it.

Like I hope that they rock with some of these ideas or all of them. I I'm like super excited the way that we've kind of spun this just in our conversation. Absolutely. I mean, look, again, we don't want to get rid of the fantasy. That really is the legacy of a victorious secret. Melissa, I think you, you know, perfectly put that. Like, that's, again, what separates them from like a skims or a spanks. That's fine. This is their space to play. So play. Get in your sandbox and play. And, you know, again, show us that the true creative diversity is behind the scenes.

Like, that's what makes the brand the brand and how you're going to step into the next 50 years of the business. So I think by putting, you know, into play the fixes that you just walk through and, again, not ditching who the legacy has been and can continue to be. Just show that you're evolving. Show that that fantasy is now reflective of all different types of customers. So, yeah, absolutely. Okay, Melissa, what do you say?

I love it. I think that this is a really great, great. I think it's a head start for them. I do think there is, from an operational perspective, a need to be very hyper-focused on the product fit and the range. They also have, you know, retail stores in almost every single mall. So they have a destination for folks to go. And they can find, and, you know, I think.

that they should lean into that they have, they're the destination for the best fit for everybody, right? And really use their retail footprint to take advantage of their digitally only competitors or their competitors, you know, like a spanks that's kind of everywhere, but nowhere. Does that make sense? And I really love this idea of like kind of launching a confidence concierge service, So kind of rebranding their fit guarantee where you could go in and get measured for whatever your needs were. And having those be their like undisputed internal Victoria's Secret Masters, right? They become the expert. They offer free, inclusive, highly trained fitting services.

And they guarantee the promise that we are going to get you the best fitted lingerie possible. That builds trust creates a concrete reason. to shop beyond just their brand, right? And I do think that along with the documentary style stuff, you know, the authenticity around behind the scenes, I think redefining their purpose is really important. Kadira, I love that. I would not get rid of fantasy, right? I think that that's definitely a unique thing to them. But I would also say that it's not only fantasy. I think they're selling real-life confidence would be one of the things I would say because that's inclusive of their entire umbrella of products, not just the sexy corsetted lingerie and thong, right?

You know, that you're not going to be wearing, well, maybe you are, I don't know, to a corporate meeting. So maybe, I don't know, maybe to your podcast. But this allows them to like continue to expand in those different high growth categories, but also continue to keep to their roots, right? Which is really important. I love that. So I think, surprisingly, I feel like, I felt pretty good about these fixes today.

Wow. I love the. That feels great. Yeah, I do too. I work that confidence piece. Yes. Laura. I got one more.

It's going to cost some money. But it's a public company. We'd have to figure all this out. Six million dollars. Come on. They can handle it. Well, just buy your competitors. Just buy, you know, they've created an audience.

They created their market share. They've got a category on lock. Like, just purchase them, you know? And then a Victoria's Secret doesn't speak to you. Add a little tag, you know, each of them by Victoria's Secret. If the central parent company doesn't speak to you, go to a subsidiary. And then it does. And then there's no apology needed.

Like, yeah, sorry, you didn't have what you were looking for here. Why don't you try skims, you know, buy Victoria's Secret? Boom. That? There you go. Game over. I love it. It's an investment, but they've weathered a lot of storms since 1977.

If they are really embracing what they say they are and they can do it across a family of companies, which they have a little umbrella, but they can make a big umbrella. Then there's truly something for everybody. So let's attack that on to your brilliant synopsis, both of you. Love it. Well, that's going to take us to the end of this episode. Melissa, Kadira, we just fixed a $6 billion company.

I guess I'll go have a sandwich or something. Melissa, thank you for starting us off and for your amazing takes on all this. Kadira seemed to be incredible stuff. We are your fearless fixers. We never rest for long. And companies keep breaking, which keeps us really busy. If there's a company or topic we haven't gotten to yet, throw them our way. You can reach us at we fixed it pod.com.

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