We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Walgreens' Theft Deterrent Debate

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

In this episode of "We Fixed It, You're Welcome," the panel tackles the issue of retail theft at Walgreens and other major retailers. They explore the effectiveness of current security measures like locking up products and their impact on customer experience and sales. The discussion covers various aspects of the problem, including organized retail crime, employee theft, and the balance between preventing theft and maintaining convenience. The panel, joined by finance expert Jason Kraus, proposes solutions ranging from investing in technology like smart carts and predictive analytics to enhancing the in-store experience with customer service ambassadors. They emphasize the importance of remembering Walgreens' core value of convenience while addressing security concerns, ultimately suggesting a multi-faceted approach to "fix" the issue. Special Guest Jason Kraus: https://jasonkraus.me/ Retail Theft and Its Impact Melissa Eaton shares a personal experience in San Francisco. Overview of the projected cost of retail theft to companies by 2026. Walgreens' History and Current Situation Brief history of Walgreens from its founding in 1901 to present day. Introduction of security measures like glass door cages in stores. Customer Experience and Sales Impact Discussion on how security measures affect customer experience and impulse buying. Chino Nnadi shares contrasting experiences at Walgreens over the years. Business Perspective on Retail Theft Breakdown of different categories of retail theft: shoplifting, organized retail crime, employee theft, and vendor fraud. Analysis of Walgreens' financial losses and store closure plans. Technology vs. Human Approach Debate on investing in technology solutions versus increasing staff presence. Examples of successful loss prevention strategies from other retailers. Startup Approach to Retail Challenges Jason Kraus discusses how startups might approach similar retail challenges. Exploration of innovative technologies like smart shopping carts and digital keys. Community Responsibility and Profiling Concerns Discussion on the importance of addressing root causes of theft. Chino Nnadi raises concerns about racial profiling in loss prevention efforts. Proposed Solutions Suggestions for improving customer experience while deterring theft. Ideas for leveraging technology, staff training, and store layout optimization. __________________ Disclaimer: A quick disclaimer. We are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice or anything that would get us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions everyone's thinking. Have an engaging conversation and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you're welcome. All trademarks, IP and brand elements discussed are property of their respective owners. Music by Milo W.Produced by Straight Forward Media Group See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, here's how this works. In each episode, we pick a company we all know that has something going on right now. Then we put ourselves in charge and see if we can fix it. You'll be hearing from Melissa and Operations, Chino on people in culture, and me on marketing. My name's Aaron. As always, a quick disclaimer, we are going into this somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. These are our views and opinions. We're here to ask the kinds of questions everyone's thinking, have an engaging conversation, and maybe come to some conclusions that we feel are worth exploring. By the end, if we fixed it, you're welcome. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements discussed are

property of their respective owners. Welcome back to you. We fixed it, you're welcome. Today, we're here to talk about Walgreens and question why they are locking up all that be over it, whether it's doing any good to prevent retail theft. Spoiler alert, it's been kind of a nightmare. We'll look at some other retailers and see what they've been doing about that. There was a study by Capital One, and the projects retail debt could cost companies over $150 billion by 2026, so they are taking this seriously. Can we fix it? If we do, you're welcome. Before we start, I'd like to introduce our guest finance panelist Jason Krause who's joining Melissa Chino and myself. Jason, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Thanks, Aaron. Great to be here. Great to be part of the show. I'm the founder

and CEO of Prepare for BC, startup support organization where we've helped over we've helped dozens of startups raise over 450 million in venture financing through coaching, storytelling, and investor readiness programs. I also have a background in the venture capital space, and I'm an active member of angel groups like the Boston Harbor Angels, investing in the tech and life science fields, and love doing community events, so host a lot of fireside chats, some, you know, startup pitch competitions and other resources for founders across the Boston ecosystem and beyond. Thanks, Jason.

It's great to have you here. And we're going to put your finance muscle to the test. And also, we'll be thinking about this from a, you know, what would a startup do in this situation? We're going to call on to you for those types of insights. That's great. Yeah. Before we get there, I'm just going to throw out to the room.

We're going to talk about Walgreens today and other retailers. but what's not with Walgreens any quick stories or fond memories? I don't know if I've fond memories. I used to work in downtown San Francisco pre-pandemic, and it was when the shoplifting was getting out of control. And it was really that the security measures in place did not allow for security guards to actually actively apprehend people that were coming in. And I was actually in a Walgreens getting a toothbrush.

because I forgot what. And I saw a guy come in. He actually brought his bicycle in, opened his backpack that he had wearing it backwards. So it was on the front, unzipped it, and then just started throwing things in it. And then rode his bike out. And we all just froze. I mean, I froze. I guess I could have tackled him.

I wouldn't know. And it was just a really, it was a sad time to be, I used to live in San Francisco. I love that city. to see what it did. And it also scared people away from coming into these types of stores, which are run by local people. And this is, it was really actually, it's pretty disheartening. So I can see that it's a big issue for Walgreens and other retailers.

And so I'm really excited to kind of talk about the security versus sales and what, you know, what we're, what we're going to get into today. Good. Thanks, for us. I went to Walgreens yesterday to see it again for myself. But before we get there, let's just talk about a little bit about, well, what got us to where we are now with some always reliable web research. So Walgreens was founded in 1901 by Charles R. Walgreens in Chicago started as a neighborhood drugstore. I know mostly you mentioned that neighborhood feel or presence.

It started at one single store over time. expanded its offerings, introduced features like the Malt and Milkshake in 1920. Sounds pretty good. It was quite popular at a time, held on and grew during the Depression. It was over 500 stored by 1930. We timed up to 2003. Well Green celebrated its 4,000 store, and then had a big merger with Alliance boots in 2014 to expand its global footprint. And if we look stateside as in January 2025, Walgreens operates approximately 8,475 stores across the United States today. And if you've been to one of those stores lately,

you might notice that these glass door cages are springing up throughout the store. So you can't just grab out shampoo or toothpaste and be on your way, depending on which store you're in. You might have to get an associate, which has to be the best part of their day, right? And come over and take the cage it'll lock it for you, all so you don't steal it. So the first question is, are these kinds of not deterrenties? it's working, what kinds of problems are they created as a result?

Well, I know that 55% of customers have said that if they can't immediately grab the item, that they will look for other sources to get the items, whether that be online or another store. So I do think that there is a risk, there's already, we've already seen it, where that customer is not going to be happy at all. This actually kind of, Chino made me think of you and your party city experience, but the reasons why people go to Walgreens for that in-person shopping is really they want to have the immediate gratification of grabbing it and seeing it and being able to also have that tangible experience. And so really, when you lock things up, you've kind of prevented them from that ability because why not, why wouldn't I just buy it

online and have it door dash to my front door? And then the big thing about Walgreens, and I know I'm I have, I'm guilty of this is that the impulse buys. So you know how they have all the snaps at the front and they have like, you know, seasonal things or things on sale. That, that is a huge amount of their sales. There are these impulse buys. So you go in for deodorant. You leave with four boxes of hot tamales and, and deodorant and maybe some lip gloss or whatever, right? And whatever's on the and while you're waiting in line. So again, you've kind of created this space where you want the kind of what feels like an impulse, you know, and very like convenient store atmosphere.

But at the same time, what you're doing is you're locking things up, making it very, very difficult. And, you know, later on we can talk about options that they have for the lockup. But I do think this is really detrimental to the survival of these types of stores. Yeah, I would agree too. And so as the honorary Canadian on the panel, right, I've had a few experiences with Walgreens, right? But I was always blown away when the fact that they were open so late. So, you know, on trips to New York for quick little things. You know, you always forget something when you're on a three-day trip.

It's just kind of like is the case. And I remember, I think back in like 2012, 2011, I don't know, sometime then before kind of they were, I think it's down 2014. I remember going in at like two o'clock because I needed to get, I don't know, double-sided tape. Every woman understands like kind of the fashion emergency when you need a double-sided tape. I remember going in and being shocked that it was like 1 a.m. And they had this. And my friend bought a pair of those like fast flat shoes to put some heels on that broke.

And so be able to go in. And I was shocked at how lively and open. Like there was people there. I was able to touch up my makeup. I was actually shocked by this kind of experience of being able to go in and grab. Fast forward to November of 2024, I was going to Chicago for a quick business trip.

And I had a few hours off, and I had chipped my nail polish before, like, a key meeting, which is not a good look, again, for anyone that wears polished. You want to make sure you're polished. And so I walked into a Walgreens expecting like a very similar experience where you know customer service people were there to help you I could grab what I needed to and I couldn't I was you know looking around for things um the employees

kind of looked a little bit sad or perturped to be there because they had to keep going and like checking things for people and they just were not where they should be from like a shopper marketing experience you know it was really like I was in and out for something really fast and I couldn't get to it. And so I remember giving up, you know, walking to another store, they didn't have any nail polish. So, you know, I was kind of moving along and going my way towards Chicago. And if you know anything about Chicago, neighborhoods are quite segregated in different areas. And it was quite interesting to see walking into another Walgreens that was a little bit more in like a people of color kind of area, less gentrified. And just the stock.

difference as to how many more things were locked up there, which was shocking to me. And again, the workers just looked like they didn't want to be there. And it was such a quite stark difference to my experience way back in the day. Maybe it was a 1 a.m. thing, but I think, you know, it has completely changed the name of the game for the people who worked there. For me as a customer, I also felt like, really, you're locking up in nail polish? Like, I'm not going to steal that. Like, what are you saying to me as a customers. So it's been really interesting kind of watching that from the background. And of course, there are other retailers that are doing similar things. But I just think, you know, long term,

as Melissa was talking about, it's really taken away from that kind of immediate gratification, you know, that quick buy, that impulse buy, because it's all locked up. Yeah. And I think that, Chino, you bring up a good point is that the evolution of, let's say, shoplifting, which is a horrible thing to think about, but from a business perspective, and I'd love for Jason and Aaron to weigh in on this as well, but really retail theft is in like four different categories, right? So there's the shoplifting that we're talking about like, oh, you know, you take a piece of candy, you take some nail polish. Then there's what they call ORC, which is organized retail crime, which is much more, like, obviously, you know, bigger groups that are actually targeting very specific items. And you

usually big ticket items for resale value, right, on the black market. And these are professional groups that are coming in. And I've seen that firsthand with a friend that owned a small business in San Francisco, have the same thing where they come in and they do a full sweep. Car transport is waiting. It's very, it's very quick. Employee theft, which I think, you know, any business, even, you know, not a retail business, there's the employee, you know, taking sticky notes and taking things, you know,

extra snacks from from the great room you know you always think about that and then there's vendor and supplier fraud so there's a lot of areas that the business of Walgreens needs to be focused on and it just feels like I'm sure for the average customer coming in like why are you locking up deodorant like I get locking up maybe there was a time when like baby formula was a really hot black market thing because I think it there was a problem there so So like you couldn't go to any store and get baby formula, right? You had to get a little ticket and then you go get it at the cashier.

So from a business perspective, I wonder where Walgreens head is at because they've got lagging sales and they've got to figure out how to, how to boost, you know, and small margins. So Jason, Eric, thoughts on that? Yeah, Jason. Let's start a year because I see, Timothy, you know, at January 10, like an earnings. call of investment analysts and basically said if the corrective or maybe overcorrected measures are tanking sales. They're going to close some of my 1,200 stores of the next three years. And as he said, they've proven conclusively when you lock things up, you sell less of them. So what led to that decision?

Why are they, you know, he's kind of doubling down on it to my understanding what's gone on there? Yeah, I mean, I think some of it is tied to, you know, the branding and the category we think of Walgreens in as a convenience store. So if things aren't convenient to get, you know, you can't walk in and grab your deodorant and, you know, spend less than 10 minutes in the store, get everything you need. It's no longer convenient for you. And also, you know, there's the same thing for the employees. Like if it's a hassle for them, every time somebody comes in and, you know, there's two people working, having to go unlock, you know, things for 25 people in the store.

that's not convenient for anybody that works there either. So yeah, I think, you know, it's a balance for them where, you know, you obviously want to prevent as much theft as possible. You also want, you don't want, or the thieves aren't your customers, though, so you want your customers to have an amazing experience there and, you know, boost more people coming into the store, grabbing items, paying for them. So, you know, it's striking that. How do you prevent theft while still creating an enjoyable experience for everybody involved?

Yeah, well, I don't want to speak for everybody, but I don't know that we think of Walgreens as a trip to Walgreens is an amazing experience. It's not sensory delight. It's a functional experience. And when you put a barrier in the way about functionality, that's really, that's your value prop, right? I do think that the company from a business perspective understands the cost of doing business is there, There's always losses, right? Every company has that. But I think for Walgreens specifically, and Aaron, you just pointed this out about them closing roughly 2,000 stores. When last year, they had a $39 million quarterly loss. And year over year, it's now up to $245 million. Like,

there's something going wrong, right, from whatever the business strategy is. And so, they really are, I mean, so what they're trying to do is stop the bleeding. And we've talked about this with like Party City and some other businesses, Spirit Airlines. You know, when you're trying to stop the bleeding, the first thing you do is like closing the stores. But then, you know, when we were talking the other day, when we were talking about how you have to invest money, Jason, you know this, invest money to make money, then how are you making sure that you're investing in the proper operations, security, tools, experience, brands, marketing, whatever it is that you're trying to do so that you can gain back the trust to people that this is really a convenience. Like, come on by, Chino, and stop in anytime you're in Chicago

and you'll be fine. Like, don't worry that you forgot your toothpaste, right? So it's a really interesting, you know, dilemma for them because I think it runs way deeper than, you know, I think when people see the security measures, they think it's shoplifting. But it's way more than that. It's that operationally, you know, there's been this shift towards online shopping, you know, now embedded convenience stores and other stores. So like CBS is known as well, like kind of like the Walgreens where it's a pharmacy as well as other stuff. And now CVS is embedded in targets, you know, those kinds of things. So what are they going to do to kind of keep up with that competition? Yeah. And they're not, I was just going to say they're not

afraid to invest in technology. Like they were actually, and I know, you know, it turned out to be more of a scam and, you know, they were on the wrong side of it, but, you know, they were the first one to want to implement theranos and do blood testing in the store. You could go anywhere. That was part of their convenience, you know, proposition as, you know, you don't have to go to a doctor. You don't have to go to an urgent care. You can get blood tests right in a local Walgreens. So, you I'm not sure what the hesitation is to implement security measures in their store, but they've definitely tried to be on the forefront of other technology implementation in the past. I agree.

And I think it's really interesting to kind of look at it from like a loss prevention standpoint. So throughout university, I used to work at Old Navy for four years. Shout out to ON. 5488, which was really a great time. And I learned a lot about customer experience and, you know, that, to be honest. You would watch people come in. You kind of knew the kind of signs to look out for. There was someone, you know, those like hidden shoppers that are kind of walking around,

like the loss prevention people, LP people, that's what they're called. And, you know, their whole mandate is obviously to prevent loss. Loss prevention, the name kind of gives that away. But the second someone steps out at the store, it's also like, you know, what is the value here? If someone had a gun, is it worth kind of, you know, tackling somebody for a shirt? not necessarily. And so how a lot of retail stores have combated that is having people there.

And so, Erin, what you said was interesting to me about kind of the experience of Walgreens. And I would actually challenge that just a little bit because, again, maybe it's because I'm Canadian, maybe it's because I've had a few experiences in Walgreens. But I remember, again, back in New York, that one time where I went in for, you know, double-sided tape. We walked out and spent like $100 and there was someone there. It was one o'clock. We were shocked. There was two people helping us figure things out.

They're like, try this, try that. Having just a person, a sales associate standing there actually prevents a lot of theft, right? It's very easy to steal something when nobody's looking. You're in a corner. You can kind of fill your bags up. But I'm not talking about the overt theft that you were talking about Melissa where someone's walking in and it's that organized crime. I'm talking about people walking in and, you know, taking, you know, seizing an opportunity. I think as Walgreens, you need to cut that out.

Your convenience store, people are coming in and out, you know, instead of wasting your sales associate time from, you know, leaving the cash register because there's only two of you on cash and setting up a really long line and, you know, going to unlock the deodorant, that is $4 or $5. but now you have 10, 15 people waiting, which was my experience in Chicago where I was like, I really, there's not a second shop I'm at. I need to get what I need to get. So I'm sitting here waiting.

I'm upset about it now. Everybody's kind of angry and that is sitting here. The cash register is not happy. You've wasted everybody's time. And all of that, like the time, the energy, the customer experience, all can be prevented by, if you just had somebody standing there, yeah, just watch it. looking over kind of like doing their laps have a loss prevention person maybe maybe invest in more loss prevention people who could actually stop because a sales

associate you're not allowed to stop from like a safety concern invest in more loss prevention people train your team on how to spot it I think that will be do better especially if again your market your brand is convenience yeah I'm making it convenient what's the point? I think you hit it right there is that operationally what changes need to happen. One of the things that I was what that I was thinking of if I was going to do this was also to figure out what kind of customer service ambassadors could you have in the aisles. And so really looking at like enhancing the store layout. So if you have all the items locked up, have a certain section and have those customer service ambassadors standing by. So you can point to something.

and they can immediately go and unlock it with their digital key, whatever they have, give that to you. You can look at it and be like, oh, this isn't actually what I wanted, right? Or it smells bad or whatever it might be. But then also having the cashiers at the ready because the convenience component of it is that you want to go in and out and have it quickly. So I think you're addressing the shoplifting by having things locked up, but you're not addressing what the customer needs.

And so to your point, you're really going to have to invest. invest in talent. And I think that that wouldn't be a bad thing to have like if there was somebody, I think you'd have customers that were a lot happier. If there was somebody from Walgreens standing in every aisle that's locked up, I wouldn't be so like pissed off about it. Right. I wouldn't be like, oh, this sucks, right? Because you know you're going to get helped. And I think it's kind of talks to the point of like when we were talking about a Barnes & Noble, for example, and I was talking about how the book I wanted wasn't there. And instead of going home and buying it and I talked to the sales associate and she recommended a great book to me.

And so it's the same kind of thing. You're getting that interaction that we are talking about that people are craving in this scenario. And there's a lot of technology now, right? When you go to, for example, now when you go to airports, you see these vending machines that have vending machines for everything, right? There's like an apple vending machine that has like all the cords, the AirPods, the AirPods. everything, right? And you can you can do that. And honestly in my old office, we had one like that too, where you slide your ID and you could pull, you know, AirPods or whatever you needed for the day. But I think like having like something like that and companies such as CVS and Walgreens,

I know, are already testing these very sophisticated vending machines where you could actually Apple pay or you could, you know, pay for it with a credit card right there and then is really a great option as well. It kind of gets a way of having people there. So I don't know that that's what you would want necessarily, but it could be the kind of thing, you know, if it's after hours, that they'd have like a couple things right there, like convenient travel, travel-sized things for people. But again, I do love the idea of focusing on how do you make your employees a very, very important component without risking that their safety as well right I agree and I think the vending machine works for like high ticket items that we talked about so like yeah if you're selling AirPods like

let's not lock it up let's you know you're you know again as a customer what you're walking into when you're looking for an air pod but just I have a question for you actually because I think Melissa brought up a really good point around like looking at even the design of the store and like the investment maybe needed? Like what, like, what would be the cost of like maybe even redesigning a Walgreens so that those high ticket items? Like, I don't want to have to use a vending machine to get deodorant simple, but like can the deodorant be like placed somewhere else with high traffic area for sales associates? Like, how much would that cost to Walgreens and all that? Yeah, I mean, a couple of things. I think, you know, with the people,

are there a few examples, like with the, you know, having people in the aisle? Like, um, I think Best Buy does a good job of that. You know, if you go into the tech department, I mean, those are more items you're probably expecting to have locked up, but, you know, there's somebody there that can help you out, figure out what device you want, and then they go unlock it and, you know, they're ready to check you out. So, you know, that's one side. The other piece that, like, the vending machine, you know, we've also seen examples, like in, you know, I went to a Patriots game this year at the Gillette Stadium. They have a, a section where there's one like area you go into and you put your credit card there's an

associate helping you you put your credit card in to go in and then they track everything you take and you just walk out and it automatically pays for it based on what you took off the shelf so i don't know how much that technology costs but you know that could be uh something that like you know there's a lot of up-and-coming technology now that can track you know what's being removed and if you have people kind of pay, you know, claim who they are and pay when they go in the store, or maybe when they go into a specific section, that could be, you know, another answer and solution there as well. Yeah, I think that's the crossroads we're in, right? Do you invest in people and take it back to the old days of the one store?

Because if you walked into Walgreens store, I bet he would say hi and welcome you and show you what you see. So do you invest in store ambassadors that play that role? and maybe even introduce higher ticket merchandise as a result because now you have someone cheering it for you and creating an experience. Or you're, you know, the fact that you're a commodity business. If you don't deliver it fast enough, Amazon's that same day delivery. So if I don't need it in that moment, I can wait a couple hours, right? So how do you make that in-person shopping experience as seamless and frictionless as possible? And that's a technology player.

So you put your money in people or technology. Maybe a combination of both. But Jason, I'm glad you're here because, you know, that's, well, is a multinational, you know, process-driven company. They're kind of doubling down and leaning into what's not working. What have them are a startup? What if, you know, how to startup approach this type of situation. Yeah.

So I think, I mean, there are some really interesting startups and technologies in the space, too. There's one I'm actually working with now called, high cart. And, you know, it's a proven technology in Asia right now that they're bringing to the U.S. And basically, they, you know, they have shopping carts and then they also have an attachment to a shopping cart that can track, they can track all the items you put in your card. It can, you know, tell you where to find things around the store. Get, you know, recommendations if you bought something and there's another item that could go really well with it, like kind of upsell the customers too. But, you know, I think, yeah, there's one angle that there's a lot of startup

opportunities in, you know, helping solve these problems. And then there's also the angle of, you know, if you're a new store that wants to compete with Walgreens or CVS, like, how would you build it? And that goes out to the, you know, the layout, the design. Even like the membership model where I was looking earlier and Costco has a really, you know, very low. rate of theft because, you know, people, you have to be a member to be a part of it. And then, you know, going in, you're giving your name. And, you know, if you give your name to the employees, like, you're probably a lot less likely to steal something than people that are just, you know, a random person walking into a store. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of ways, you know, a lot of opportunities

to solve this. And it depends, yeah, if you're going, you know, more of the, you know, people, different business model, or new technologies you're looking to implement and include. I want to build upon what Jason said as somebody who's worked in a couple startups as well. I think that one of the things that's really very forward when you're talking to these high-growth companies is data. And so utilizing predictive analytics, leveraging data to identify theft patterns, right, identifying to understand the inventory of those most. frequently stolen items in higher risk areas so that you could make adjustments in the store.

So you would maybe place those behind the cage, right, or behind the glass or whatever you're calling it. And I do think that's something that definitely, you know, Walgreens and some of these more traditional retail outlets should be thinking about and utilizing as best they can. Because to Jason's point, there's so many different types of security measures that you could use that are really less intrusive. And actually you can, you know, you can kind of prey upon people's behaviors, shopping behaviors. Like I'm all about like when it feels like it's an auction, like, you know, when the countdown comes on and it says like, like you need to buy this in 10 minutes. I'm like usually we'll buy it even though I don't need it. So, you know, like you could do something like that, right? You know, and I do know that like wall.

I think Walgreens as well has started testing this. But I know CVS is testing. they have an app. I know Walgreens has an app too. And that you can use your app to unlock the cabinet, which is great because the data then tells you who's using it, right? So like if you were going to shop with something, you're not going to be able to shop with it, right? You know, they'll know that you used it. So again, I think that like figuring out, you know, digital keys, different kinds of things where you get rewarded for, you know, signing up for a membership, Jason, right? would be actually, you know, the kind of thing.

I think that definitely, you know, this is a deterrent to shoplifters and even probably the big organized crime, you know, with, you know, all of things, you know, being equal. But I do think that for the customer, we're the ones that suffer, right? And, you know, I really, I agree with Chino, I like the idea of going in and looking at all the colors, like there. also looking at price comparison right there right what are my coupons you know what what can I utilize and so I do think I you know I really appreciate that and Aaron you brought up the very fun part of Walgreens you know these like pharmacy types of places used to be like soda hall like soda fountain places I know that when I lived in San Antonio there was a place called the

pharmacy and it had still had the soda fountain that my daughter used to go for milkshakes there she loved it. And so maybe there's an idea of like creating that kind of localized space again, right? You know, where people actually go there for not just toothpaste. I don't know. Yeah, no, I agree with this. And I think kind of interesting and it's more on like I guess social commentary too because I think, you know, most people, if you're going to actually buy something and eat the order, I'm like, you're going there to buy something. Shoplifters usually have the intent to steal something. And so I think with these technologies, sure, yes, I can have a cart that puts things in there. I was going to buy it anyway, right?

Like Uniclo does a really good job. And I think, you know, Jason, the argument between like tech versus people, you know, I think when it comes to the convenience side, what they can do with something similar to Uniclo, I don't want to wait 10 years to go in and pay for what I've just picked up. It just took me 20 minutes to do that because I have to go call somebody. But why not you scan my thing and I can go? but I still think there's a need for people because, again, you know, with the Amazon's of the world, the reason people are coming in is for that literally immediate gratification,

the look, the feel, the touch, right? I think having a person there to help kind of guide you through that, curate that experience and learn what we talked about in the Party City episode is important. And it also helps prevent theft. That said, when it comes to even like a, you know, vending machine, again, I was thinking of like it from the perspective of a shoplifter. I was never going to put my car down. I probably didn't even bring a wallet with me, right?

I'm not going to have an app to come in and do that because my intention is to shoplift. So we can bring all this technology. And again, it'll help the customer experience better, but it doesn't really address the shoplifting. And I think, again, going back to having somebody physically there, you are less likely to similar to what you were saying, Jason, And if there's someone standing in front of you,

you're a lot less likely to put things in your bag, right? Organize shoplifters, you know, that calls for loss prevention folks. That calls for security. You know, in Canada, we have the LCBO and, you know, or not in Canada, in Ontario, it's a place where you buy all of your alcohol. And during COVID, there was a mass, and it's still happening, mass ring of organized shopping where people would steal, and I remember being the alcohol,

there with my husband and I was so confused as to what was going on because this person was just putting stuff in their bag like and they have like a trolley they brought in I'm at the counter going to pay and this person is just like talking to the people and I was like what is going on here but there was no security guard they usually have a security guard to go and do with it so the workers can't really do anything again cost of life there was a huge incident that happened where, you know, these cops actually chased a shoplifter from LCBO. The person was driving down the wrong side of the highway and actually killed a grandparent and an infant.

And so, again, they did all of that to kill three innocent people for what, a few bottles of alcohol, not worth it. And so, again, there's that level of a time when you need to bring in loss prevention and security people. And I think when it's an organized kind of crime shoplifting, that makes sense. But to deter the everyday shoplifters having somebody there would be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I'm glad you're saying that, you know, because we, you know, we talked about a lot of the symptoms, right? And I'm not saying these companies target and others do community give back and things like that, but is the focus over, is the focus over-emphasized on the symptoms and not the underlying root causes and what's the corporate responsibility to be a good citizen in the communities you serve. Right. And it's also interesting, too, and I think there is, you know, there is training required because as we know in the past, right, sometimes when you have people in store looking, again, as a black female, I have to say it.

There's been times that I've been followed around shopping, and I was just like, hello, I'm not here to steal. And, you know, I've just, you know, look at my profile. I spend a significant amount of money here. Every year, you don't need to be following me. But again, it changes your perspective. So I think, you know, even if there are people brought in, there needs to be accountability if you can't profile things.

And I think in a world where, you know, things have become politically correct. People are afraid to do that. I don't think that falls on the sales associate. Again, that requires trading from loss prevention people. And so there's that balance of like in those situations, having, you know, tech to like kind of move actual customers through. so you're not profiling your real customers, but deterring shoplifters, I think,

is the best option for Walgreens or any other big retailer that's facing similar issues. So let's fix it. So they can start a new opportunity, fresh opportunity. They can keep doubling down on something that maybe isn't, is a working unit leading to mass store closures, or they can go as a tech play, is it a people play? What do they do?

Let's fix this. Yeah, I mean, I think it can be both. because there's already employees in the store. Maybe some are understaffed and need more employees. But I think if the focus of the tech is how do we give customers a better experience while preventing shoplifting? And then there's still people in place that now don't have to focus on 100% of the store. Maybe they can focus on the areas that aren't solved by technology.

and, you know, have, like, certain processes in place that, you know, they have standard procedures across all Walgreens, and then there's local, you know, things that are applied to each local store as well. So, yeah, I think part of it is, you know, having the right, you know, people ops and, yeah, knowing, you know, what everybody in each store needs to do, what new people need to be brought in and trained upon, but also, you know, enabling that experience where if somebody knows exactly what they want, you know, they either have the app or they have the smart shopping card and, you know, if they're scanned into the system, like, they can go easily in and out and, you know, get exactly what they need and, yeah, not have to worry about, you know, being, yeah, being, like, doing things in a certain

way just because, you know, shoplifters ruin the experience for everyone else. So, yeah, I think it can be a combination of technology that enables the people that currently work there and maybe new employees as well to, you know, focus on the tasks that they're needed to focus on to create that customer experience. And they also feel safer too, but, you know, they don't have to necessarily worry about 100% of people coming into the store being shoplifters. is they can, you know, focus on people that are more red flags by, you know, if you don't choose to use the app, if you don't choose to use the other devices, then, you know, maybe, you know, you're, I'm not saying, like, you're guaranteed to be a shoplifter, but, you know, it helps eliminate basically the potential threats in the store as well. So we trade up and add staff, we make them more, you would say ambassadors or more give a more

curated shopping experience to help people find with them looking. before we had some kind of tracking or smart car technology for inventory control. You stopped profiling and questioning our shoppers, and we remove some of those barriers that the glass changes and things that have obviously proven to decline sales at an alarming rate. Cheeto did that. Did we fix it? I would think so. If Walgreens remembers kind of like who their customers and what they stand for and it's that convenience. If they can remember to make sure

that the customer experience is important to, you know, put away high-ticket art. I'm like, sure, you're going to need, like, with any, like, again, Best Best Best Best Best Great example, those high-ticket things, put them in a box, get someone to go for that. Deodorant, I need to be able to smell that, I need to feel, I need to remember why people are in your store.

If you can't do that, you're going to lose it. and whether that's convenience and making sure people can get out as soon as possible once they have what they need, that there's somebody there when they need to open up that high ticket item, or just somebody standing there greeting people to thwart them away from shoplifting. Remember what you stand for. And if they can do that, I think that we fixed it. Are you, Melissa? I think that we have an opportunity here to fix it.

and I do think it's what Jason and Chino have just that, is that there's this lean into technology, lean into predictive analytics, understand where the high traffic, you know, high risk areas are, and also use your talent and your team to help you to grow sales as well as grow the customer experience, feel safe, feel like they are there to help you. And I think you can do that by looking at, the layout of the store, looking at what, you know, like starting in your role, understanding what you're there to provide. You know, also, you know, Chino, you've brought this up a couple of times and I think community

collaboration is really important. So really, like, knowing the other stores and businesses around you, sharing information, so because I do think what pieces and components are already putting into place are deterrence for shoplifting, it doesn't mean that there isn't other. types of crimes happening. And so I think that that's really something that the whole community doesn't want that that kind of toxic cancer in their space. So I think that they can really focus on that. And I also think that there's alternatives to the lockup, you know, that we've been talking about today, and there's technology, and there's ways to make people engage. So loyalty

programs in the app. So self-service checkout, you do that at the grocery store now. But like if you do that. Do you get a discount? Do you get an automatic digital coupon? Those kinds of things. And I do think that today's shopping experience, because it is one of, you know, customers today are savvy. They're impulsive. They want things personalized. So like, wouldn't it be nice to, you know, you know, if you use your app to get access into the store, it tells you like, hey, are you here for some more of this stuff that you got last time? You can find it. You can find it. over there in aisle four and Melissa will be happy to help you, right? So I think we could, we did have a lot of different options for Walgreens that I think if they were to take into measure,

they will do great. They'll be more successful than they have been in the past. I like it. And so much for coming on with us. It's been the delight. If people want to find you, where did they go? I appreciate it. Yeah, I really enjoyed the discussion and happy to connect with the audience. Happy to connect on LinkedIn or, you know, our prepare for VC site is prepare with the number for and then VC for venture capital.com. And we also have a free tool on there called chart my course to help figure out your roadmap and strategy for your business as well. But yeah, happy to connect anybody on LinkedIn or through our site or over email as well. Perfect. Thank you. Well, that wraps up this episode. We are your

in those fixers if you've been thinking about a company and you want us to fix it or you'd like to learn more about our show, reach out at we fixeditpod.com and we'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by Straightforward Media Group, All Rights Reserved. If you'd like to learn more about how a podcast can help your company establish authority and generate leads, please email us at Eric at straightforwardmg.com or go to straightforwardmg.com for more information.