We Fixed It, You're Welcome - Wendy's "Vanilla" Shakeup: Let's Get Bolder & Back on Top

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Wendy’s was once the fresh, honest, slightly rebellious burger chain. Today it’s stuck between fast food giants on one side and premium burger rivals on the other. Prices match McDonald’s, but the brand isn’t perceived as a value leader. Quality is decent, but not elevated enough to compete with Five Guys or Shake Shack. So what is Wendy’s now? We sit down with Paul Tuscano, former Chief Digital Officer at KFC US, the man behind their massive digital reinvention. He shares insights from decades in QSR, hospitality, and customer experience to break down why Wendy’s is struggling and how to fix it. What we cover • Why Wendy’s lost its lane • Whether Project Fresh will work • The strengths and weaknesses of the Wendy’s menu • How loyalty, kiosks, personalization, and AI can change QSR • Why Wendy’s social media works, but the stores don’t reflect it • Why legacy brands need clarity and simplicity • How to make Dave Thomas relevant to Gen Z • Why culture and franchise alignment matter more than new tech • How Chick fil A wins with consistency, not complexity • A step by step strategy to rebuild Wendy’s This episode is a must watch for anyone interested in branding, food, marketing, digital transformation, or turning around legacy companies. Guest: Paul Tuscano Former Chief Digital Officer, KFC US LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paultuscano/ Subscribe for more deep dives where we fix big business problems with fresh perspectives. • Website – www.wefixeditpod.com • Follow us on: Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wefixeditpod LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wefixeditpod YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@WeFixedItPod If you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends! Keep listening to find out how we fix companies and put them back better than we found them. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. Today, we're going to talk about the iconic redhead of the fast food world. Now, not Ronald McDonald, we're talking all about Wendy's. But take away Wendy and what comes to mind. Square patties, Frosties, maybe they're snarky social media. Anything else? Well, that's the problem.

Wendy's is stuck squarely in the middle of the fast food landscape. There's no whopper. They have fewer locations. They're not the cheapest. What are they? There's a lot writing on that question. Because right now, things are not so hot. But not to worry, we're on it.

Your fearless fixes are going to get Wendy's out of the middle and put them back on top. And we're going to bring in some help. Our guest today is Paul Tuscano, former chief digital officer at KFCUS, where he led one of the largest and most complex digital transformations in the fast food and QSR category. Under Paul's leadership, KFC accelerated digital growth, rebuilt its UX organization, launched a wildly successful loyalty program with over 7 million members and a lot more. Before that, Paul spent nearly a decade transforming Marriott's mobile and on-side digital products. He's also held major roles at Verizon.

When it comes to customer experience, digital transformation, and how legacy brands reinvent themselves, which will need today, Paul has seen it all. So fixing when it should be a piece of cake, but we'll have to see. Paul, welcome to the show. Tell us more about yourself. Hey, thanks for having me. I've been in the QSR industry for two years, so not very long in terms of tenure when it compared to some of my peers. But before that, I was at Marriott, where I ran also the food and beverage business there

in terms of digital experiences. So when it came to like table reservations at our restaurants, room service in our hotels, was managing that, the software experiences there. So yeah, so I have a lot of experience with guest experiences. It comes to digital and what we like to call digital nowadays. I say the physical and digital world. How do you merge those together? Using the digital to stay relevant to get people into the restaurants, right?

And then, you know, whether it be promotions or just some catchy social media gimmick to get them in and get the attention, right, to get them top of mind. So there's, you know, there's come things that play like marketing elements. But then ultimately once we get them in the door, right, then I rely on my peer group to kind of like operations, staffing, training, and then obviously making sure we have a great menu that people want and just keep coming back for. So it takes a team. And I had a great team in KFC. I think we're in the middle of a pretty decent turnaround. So I'm excited to stay close to the topic. Nice. Thanks so much, Paula. You've got the right ingredients to join us today. So it's great to have you

here. Before we really get going, Kadeira, pile it on. What exactly is going on with Wendy's? Absolutely. Yeah. And I think we have to. pause and acknowledge that this moment with Wendy's has been building for years. And to understand what's happening today, we have to go back to where Wendy started. So we all know Dave Thomas. Wendy's was founded in 1969 by Dave in Columbus, Ohio, with really one simple idea. And that was fresh, high-quality burgers made with never frozen beef. And that commitment to freshness that they made, it wasn't just about marketing. It was really their brand's DNA. So, Aaron, you mentioned the square patties, but it was also open kitchens, quality is our recipe.

Everything that they did reinforce this feeling that Wendy's wasn't trying to be the cheapest fast food option. No, they were trying to be better than what was out there. And over time, they built this reputation as the sharper, slightly more premium alternative in the fast food space. So they branched out early. If you recall, they were out there with salads and baked potatoes and cheese. and chili and breakfast and now I'm hungry. And let's not forget, Erin, you mentioned that snarky social media, again, I always say give that team a raise.

That provided them with so much cultural currency. It really set the tone for an entire generation of brand personality. But that cultural clout doesn't automatically turn into sales. And that's really where the positioning problems start. If you think about the burger landscape today, right? McDonald's owned the Vennel. value lane. They've got low prices. They've got global, you know, ubiquity, you know, their dominant convenience. And then at the other end, there's the restaurants like Shake Shack and Five

Guys and, you know, these fast, casual players that own the premium quality lane. So they're talking about better ingredients and higher prices, but they're giving you a more elevated experience. And Wendy's is sitting somewhere in between. Their prices are nearly identical to McDonald's, but they're not perceived as a true value option. And then at the same time they're not premium enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with a shake shack or five guys. And that's where strategists, you know, call this kind of being stuck in the middle, where it's too expensive to one on price, not differentiated enough to one on quality. And that identity tension only gets sharper when you look at the menu.

So if you ask someone, what is Wendy's hero item? The single product that kind of defines the brand. The closest answer you'll probably get is the Frosty. Now, look, do not comfort. the frosty. I love a frosty. It is a beloved icon for sure. But it's not exactly the kind of flagship menu item that's going to anchor, you know, this massive strategic comeback that they need, right? They don't have a Big Mac. They don't have a Wopper. They don't have, you know, a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich. And in a saturated market, when you don't have a clear menu identity, that's

going to become a problem. So Wendy's is fighting back. They're responding, right? They're launching one of the biggest transformation efforts in its history. And it's an initiative internally called Project Fresh. And Project Fresh is a full reset of the business. So they're closing, you know, roughly 300 underperforming stores in the U.S. They're renovating. They're refranchising. They're going to be investing heavily in AI and other technology.

They're rethinking their brand positioning. To be clear, this is a full rebuild. Wendy's is trying to reclaim the lane that it once owned. And so what we want to talk about on this episode is, is how does a legacy brand like Wendy's get out of the middle of its category? What does that actually look like? And can this project fresh plan help Wendy's escape the middle and build a lane of its own? I think it's important to also kind of just point out that like this is not just a story about Wendy's.

The whole fast food industry should be paying attention, right? Because this is about really what happens when a legacy brand tries to evolve in a market that's being pulled apart from both the top and the bottom. And the tough choices that I think all of the fast food restaurants are going to need to start to make to stay relevant. So this is a biggie if we're up for it. Let's get into it and fix this one. Well, let's say what we're here to fix first off. And Kadira, wonderful summary in getting us to this point. Thank you. Dave Thomas, you know, was not a boardroom guy in the traditional sense. He was to roll up your sleeves and greet the customer and transparency in the kitchen and get it done.

Looking at Wendy's today, is it representative of the founder who's been gone for a while now? First off, have they strayed from its 1969 origins, or is it the same company at its core? And it's just out of step? Like, what foundationally, what are we dealing with? I think you bring up a really good point because I think it is like a crisis in identity, right? Kadira, you brought up a couple things here like, pick a lane. What's your lane? What do you decide do you want to do? And I think that because the world of, let's just focus on the burgers, the burger world is so saturated in all different ways that their challenge is not just McDonald's, right? Like many McDonald's is the least of their worries.

Well, it's not true. But let's just say that. But they've got the cult favorite in and out. They've got Smashburger, Five Guys, all the things that you talked about, is that elevated? I guess it is. It's elevated in price for sure. Like you've seen online where people are like, I door dashed smash burgers and it was $59 for Burger. You know, like that day and they're like freaking out about that.

They're like, a burger and shake? What? So I do feel like it's a crisis of brand and identity as well. And so like to just, I mean, I know that they're going through this phased approach of like thinking about this very carefully. But like I kind of challenge a company when they say, well, we're going to try to efficiency and costs and things like that. It's like, are you serious? Like how much less can you charge, right? Like without like sacrificing the taste or sacrificing the taste or sacrifice. all the things. And I have, you know, I was telling, I was saying earlier, I kind of, this is a topic for me because I have wonderful memories of high school. We used to go to Wendy's late night and our buddies worked there and the Frosties with Frank fries, you know, and like sitting there at, you know, 12 midnight and, you know, getting in trouble and stuff like that. So I love the idea of Wendy's, but I don't think, for example, my children who are now old,

all older have ever even been in a Wendy's, which is kind of sad to me. And so like, I, you know, I love this idea of refreshing their brand. But at the same time, I'm like, you know how like everything old is new again? I'm like wondering like, maybe they need to go back to vintage, like a vintage windies and be like bring back that like, you know, because like now stranger things, all those things, you know, all those shows. Everything's like a 90s, 80s thing vibe. You know, like, what a they like pare down their menu? What, what if they thought about those things and thought about like, what, what were we known for and how do we go back there? Because like, all the fast we places. I mean, Paul, you can talk about KSC, but like when you see like all the things on the menu these

days, like, really? Like, how do you, how does a franchise owner actually provide quality with like that huge menu and then be asked to like run this business as like tightly as possible. You know, I just feel like the margins aren't there. And I feel like, you know, closing a few of the low performers is one thing. But like now you've lost trust with your franchise owners as well. Yeah. And I think I think that's a really good point. I mean, speaking of, you know, is the restaurant, you know, who it was when Dave first opened it, you know, in the 60s?

I think they have a choice to make. I think, Melissa, that's really good point. Pick a lane. They have a choice to make. You know, maybe they build on or continue to, you know, double down and stay true to the values the day first introduced. But then they also can evolve at the same time and, you know, kind of step into this AI age and what needs to happen to make sure that they're partnering successfully in communities with their franchisees and all the things. So I don't necessarily think that they have to, like, pick or choose, you know, whether they're going to kind of, you know, bring Dave into, you know,

who the restaurant needs to be today. I think that they can pick. And again, that might be things like values, for example. I think the other thing that's really important, you know, when we talk about a brand like Wendy's or any of these other fast food restaurant that have grown beyond just one or two stores in one town is really thinking about what culture needs to look like across the franchise, right? We're talking about hundreds. thousands of stores in the U.S., outside of the U.S. And I think it's important to remember, like, culture doesn't have to be identical at every store. That's why you hire people local to the community.

There's going to be those local touches. Eating at a Wendy's in Chicago might feel a little bit different than in Des Moines, right? But I think what the customer is expecting is going to be that Wendy's vibe. So we've talked about, like, you know, their bold personality and snarkiness. Is that something that you experience, you know, at every restaurant that you're like, yeah, I like that. I can dig that. Is it friendly service? Is it clean dining rooms?

Is it food made the way that the brand promises? That's how you show that culture. That might be how, again, you're bringing the restaurant from 1969 into present day. It's not easy, right, to get all of these franchises on the same page because it, you know, to use like, I would compare this. to like, you're basically trying to manage an entire league, not just a single team to get there. But it's doable. And y'all know me in playbooks, right? Like, I think Wendy's as the brand and his headquarters can set the playbook. So again, what does that look like? That looks like values. It looks like training. It looks like standards. It looks like expectations. It looks like even incentivizing

your people, your franchisees and your employees in those stores to make it happen. You know, because when I am having an experience at a Wendy's, for example, I'm not thinking about headquarters. I'm thinking about the restaurant, 10 minutes up the street for me that's giving me my fries hot every single time. It's the people who are going the extra mile to get my order right. So again, the execution has to be local. That's really where you're going to experience the culture and consistency of the restaurant. I think what you're saying hits exactly. So a lot of the, it doesn't matter what restaurant is. Everything you talk to about it, it's like, it has to be consistent, right? But as we're

talking about this, honestly, I haven't given Wendy's a thought in a long time. And we have one, like, in our town center. And, uh, but as we're talking about Dave Thomas, like, everything that he represented, if it actually reminds me of Chick-fil-A today, like, when you go into a Chick-fil-A and the quality of service, I never actually knew the guy, but the commercials as a kid, I was like, wow, that's like a really nice guy and I'd love to go eat at Wendy's because of him. And that's the sentiment that Chick-fil-A creates for their customers, and they just go back. I mean, because look, we did the whole chicken analysis. We have all these competitors. When you think about the, like, hot and fresh, definitely, they spot on, right? They've got the volumes to be able to pump out,

like, good-quality chicken all the time that's never sitting. So, Chick-fil-A, but the chicken itself isn't that much better than churches or raising canes or even KFC for that matter. Right. So the quality of the food definitely matters. But then there's the experience that the staff gives, right? And it's restaurants always clean. They're very friendly, very welcoming. You want to go back, right? And the efforts that they make in terms of recruiting and the types of people they recruit

and how they manage the location because it's a pseudo franchise-ish model, right? It's like there is clear ownership all the way down to the kid who's like bringing the drink to your table. Right. They know their job. They know they have to please. And it's, and it's, I mean, especially with the minimum wages, it's hard to, you know, get that commitment from those employees to do that every day all the time, right, at high pressure.

Like for these, a lot of them are young, young people. And then you've got a lot of, you know, newly immigrants that are in, in the country that are working at these places. So how do you maintain that quality of service that just keeps it positive, right? It gives that positive association for, you. people to have them keep coming back. Right. So that's once you get them in the door, you just got to be able to keep them. And I think it's all about the operations and the staffing that makes makes a difference. Yeah, I love that idea of building that experience so that it's one that you want to

share with others. You want to come back, you know, all the things. Paul, I'd like to ask you specifically just because of your expertise is how do you use embedded tech and even AI to a certain extent in these models to help turn around a food industry tighten like Wendy's? Even now, like KFC is still kind of making their changes. And we've got, you know, we've got a huge parent company like Yum, who's providing a lot of the new tech. And you've probably seen some of the, what they refer to as bite, a whole, suite of products. AIs at the core of it. So introducing that to our brands and then ultimately to our franchisees. It all comes out of cost, by the way. So the investment is definitely needed. And there's

opportunities to improve a lot of these operational elements, right, so that the folks don't have the burden of having to deal with, at least in our case. Like, how much do I have to prepare of XYZ based on demand, right? So there's more predictive models, right? So you're not overwhelming your staff because let's keep in mind, staffing is really hard around. Like, it's hard to find people. So you're running, you know, with smaller staff, turnover is really high. So to keep having to retrain people and then also maintain that positivity that you need for your customers.

So trying to reduce their burden of the work that they have to do with technology is what we're trying to do. But, you know, some of it, there's only so much we can do, right? A lot of it ends up being just doing with the customer. And then also, you know, the other part of it is just making sure you have a sharp menu that people want. Yeah, you know, one of the things I was trying to remember about like why Wendy's was different than McDonald's, for example. At the time, and I'm sure it is today too, but Wendy's was like the customizable burger, right? Fast food burger where I don't know if you remember early on like McDonald's.

Like if you told them you didn't want onions on your burger, it was like, no, sorry. that's not going to happen. You're going to have to take them off yourself. So I feel like that lends really well into like these kiosks and like the tech world where, you know, like I know there's a local burger joint that we like to go to and they give you a piece of paper and they have all the things on there, right? Like onions, lettuce, tomato, mayo, ketchup, you know, pickles, hot pets, whatever. And you just check. Right. And so like that would be like, kind of a cool, fun experience going in. And then the thing that would make it so nice is that it's personalized. So it is attached to your account and your app so that the next time you come in, it says, is this what you want the junior chief burger with this, this and this? Or would you like something else? Right? You know what I mean? And so like kind of creating that feeling of like, you know, to Paul, to your point of this like, really. really personalized experience that makes you feel like, oh, I'm going home, Kadir.

Right? Like, I'm going home. They always know I want a chocolate frosty and I want extra hot fries and, you know, all the things, right? And so I think that that's an opportunity for them to lean into that too, where, you know, you kind of see in a lot of different industries when we talk about transformational branding of a legacy brand, like some of the tech and AI and some of, some of those things, those are table stakes now, right? Like, everybody has those kiosk, right? How do you make it different? And maybe the difference is you've got snarky windy there. Like, what's taking you so long? Decide. Just, you know, like, you know, whatever you want, you know, that personality. Or it's really that inviting, it's, you know, AI generated Dave, right? And he's like, welcome. I'm so excited to see you

again, friend. And like, you know what I mean? And so, like, you can kind of choose your personality. of who you deal with. And I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunity there. But I think Wendy's has to understand that some of the things that they're moving towards are not necessarily that different than what you find other places. So they're going to have to figure out how do they make it different, right? The tech stuff that you mentioned is table stakes. Like, everybody has that, like the menu, the personalization.

Now, the real thing is kind of the recommendation. because we always want to increase your basket size, right? So I want to be able to recommend things. And we want, like, especially when you talk about like, hey, you've got a complicated menu or a big menu. We were talking about that earlier. It's like, hey, how do you put that in front of the customer, right? How do you take that, you know, the bottom of the menu item that, like, people just need

to discover, right? That could be your superstar, but you can't, it's just your menu's too big, right? So there's these opportunities with tech and AI to understand what your flavor profile is and then appropriately recommend. Right. So that's definitely the opportunity. And that takes the data. You got to be able to harvest the data

to be able to present that kind of stuff and apply the AI. So that's kind of what a lot of people are going to be struggling with. Is the quality of their data? What do they have? Do they have the loyalty program that's been tracking all this stuff for you?

So you can really personalize the experience. Because otherwise, everything else is going to be the same. Like every, it doesn't matter where I go. It's like, hey, you know, personalize, you know, customize your birth. burger, all that stuff, everybody has it. Right? Now it's like truly, how can I recommend something for you? And then not only that, but the great opportunity with this is when you think about your menu strategy and what you're going to introduce because all these limited time offers, hey, I want to do a

partnership with Frank's hot or, you know, Mike's hot honey. Like that, this information that you have of your customers and you see their flavor profiles will let you lead you to all these different partnerships potentially, right? Or new flavors, right? So, and that's truly, I'm, I mean, one of the things that we were looking at was like, hey, how do you, what are the flavors that people really want, right? And who are the, what should our kitchens be working on? Our innovation team should be working on to really differentiate us, you know, what's it called this. Not churches, I was going to say, raising kane sauce, right? Like everybody's talking about raising kane sauce.

It's the only sauce they have, but it's like supposed to be amazing, right? Or the chick-fil-a sauce, right? They're branded sauce. So what do we got to keep doing to understand that? And, you know, when you do the multiple sauce things, you know what people are picking. you start learning their flavor profiles pretty quick. So when you launch like the jalapeno honey or something, you're like, hey, you guys, I like the saracca stuff.

Come check this out, right? Yeah. I love that idea too because I do also think we've talked about this before with Starbucks and other like in and out, like the secret menu, right? Like, you know, this is one of those opportunities where you get like, you know, this kind of viral thing going. And then you feel special, you know, and there's something. FOMO like, oh, why did I not get the secret menu items like the jalapino honey offered me, right?

You know what I mean? My friend did, you know, and all of this kind of thing. And so I really feel like there's an opportunity there. But I do, again, I feel like these are the kinds of things where just having a kiosk, to your point, like, that's everybody has kiosk, right? That's what you have to have, you know, or an app, you know? And like, it's not just about pushing coupons for free, fries on Friday, which of course I do love from models. But it's about offering you a personalized,

you know, menu item, right? And saying, hey, you know, and maybe for Kadira, it would be like, hey, we're thinking about introducing, I know they're doing this, I think, Frosties with, you know, Oreo cookie chunks or whatever they're trying to do. I mean, I don't know if they're trying to become dairy queen or what, but like, Kadira, would you like to try one for a dollar? That kind of thing. And you might be like, yeah, I'll try it. Yeah, Wendy, Wendy says a secret menu too. So, and that's, I call out table stakes also. And, you know, a lot of it is how high can you stack your burger and that has to do with the customization side. But, but Paul, I like what you're saying about introducing novelty or, you know, something differentiating. But I think

part of the problem is the, the QSR fast food industry gets together, you know, whoever the heads of secret committees and decides that spicy pickle is going to be the flavor of the year. And then you see it percolate everywhere or, you know, sirotia honey or whatever. And that's not a differentiator when everyone has it. You know, it's the same release at the same time. So do you want McDonald's version or do you want Wendy's version? Wendy's is not winning that battle. So can they create something outside of, you know, menu parity that's going to say,

look, we are ingredient of focus. We're quality focused. We're experienced focus. Come to us. And we have this that no one else can replicate. They're not. They haven't done that. And we have diehards that have preference.

So you like the frosty better than a milkshake or a, you know, treat somewhere else. Great. People were right and die for Wendy's and whatever their, you know, their food of choices there. But outside of that core committed shrinking, what we see from the numbers, audience, what, you know, do, what can they, is it a technology, certainly, like, bring it up at least to par of everybody else. That's going to keep them alive. But what's going to move them forward. That's what we're here to figure out. I mean, look, I definitely think, like, I think what we're.

all saying here. And, you know, we talked about even in the intro is definitely, they have to figure out what is their signature kind of menu item. Again, the Frosty isn't going to carry it. Again, don't take it away, but it's not going to carry it. I love, Melissa, your point about, you know, again, is it like, I'm blanking on the term, but is there some way to kind of reintroduce Dave back into the brand? I think they should go all in on the snarkiness and personality that they have on social media. Like, I would love to see them bring that. from social media and online somehow into the stores. Now, that may not mean that they're going to get all of the folks at the register to participate,

but like, how could they introduce that? How could they bring that experience there? Now we're kind of, again, talking about this is kind of the Wendy's vibe that I'm experiencing and I almost get a kick out of when I'm going for my burger. You all probably remember even, I'm blanking on the actress's name, but remember there, where's the beef commercials, right? My understanding is that made them so much money and drove things. sales and, you know, got them recognized in such a big way. Like, what is, what's going to be

that for them today? And again, I would argue it's their social media personality. Bring that into the restaurants. I think we would get such a kick out of it. I think it could be a game changer. And again, they already were kind of owning that from an online perspective. Why not bring it into the store somehow? I'm going to go then on the other side of this, on one of the ways that I think also as a differentiator from a brand, of course, I'm going to talk about social responsibility, right? I think that they have such an opportunity to hear to break out and own something meaningful that maybe their fast food competitors aren't doing or aren't doing as loudly. And that would be things around like ethical sourcing or fair labor, for example, right? Like think about if, again, as a part of this whole project, fresh initiative, they're like, look,

You can grab a quick burger. That's what we want. We want you in our stores to do that. You can also still feel good about how it was made. And we're going to be practical. We're not going to be preachy about it. But a part of our whole transformation plan, we want you to know that, you know, we're transparent in our supply chain for beef and produce.

We're committed to living wages, you know, for the folks working in our stores. We are, you know, doubling down on sustainability and packaging. We're partnering with suppliers who are meeting really strict, you know, traceability and welfare standards. Like, especially now, customers in the general public love that. They would be all over it. And I think it's something that the competitor can't easily copy, you know, without really doing, right, without doing some work behind the scenes, right? Like, you can't just kind of slap a tagline on something and talk about supply chain and beef and produce.

Like, you got to walk that walk. You got to make operational changes in commitment. And so think about if Wendy's were to. to really lean in here as a part of this whole plan and say, okay, in addition to these three or four things we're doing in store and this experience we're providing you, we also want to talk to you about ethical sourcing. Be consistent. Show up with your receipts. That also could be a differentiator and would play a big part in their transformation. I love it because it's also redefining fresh, right? Like it's taking fresh and taking it to the nth degree and saying this is

what fresh means to us here at Wendy's. And like to your point, it would have all the names of where they're sourcing the beef, where they're sourcing their lettuce, what all, all the different kinds of things. And I do think that that would be, you know, that's probably more engaging while somebody's waiting for their order versus watching a college or a high school kid slap a tomato on your burger and you're like, did they wash their hands? Like, when was the last time they change gloves, right? You know, like that kind of thing. So like, you know, there's this whole idea of like fresh as if you can see it, but that's not necessarily true. I mean, I think all of you have been in places where you're watching them make your whatever, a burrito or sandwich and you're

kind of like, ooh. I don't know. Yeah, I'd rather not keep that, right? So that's, that would be a really cool visual, right? Like if they had like a running board or something like that or decals and made it feel fresh in their actual. where they are. I love that, you know, and even like testimonials, right? The rancher saying, thank you, right? You're telling their origin story. I mean, I think we were all inspired last week by the origin story from Cionic and origin stories are important. Customer testimonials, Paul, you know this. Like, that's what gets you return customers, you know, coming back to Marriott or coming back to wherever. You know, your Obie's going to look for the, like, how do I

kind of align with whatever that story is. So I love that, Kadira. I think that's actually a really good point. Paul, you're no stranger to legacy brands. And, you know, KFC, you famously brought the kernel back. And as reached into the past to say, we still have our past values and ethos and we're future forward and all the, you know, what's the balance? How do you help companies walk the line between hat tips of the past without being beholden to it and this digital transformation? I think one of the things, and when we were initially looking at the whole plan, bringing the colonel back and how do we do it, and it's truly making sure that those values of days of past still line up with today, right?

So, you know, seeking quality and the freshness of ingredients. Like, he was notorious, right? Like, there was a story about him going into a kitchen and he tasted the gravy and he was like, this isn't up the part. And he actually pitched it. Like, he threw it across the kitchen. He was like, this can't be the standard. And that's that value. Everybody loves good food, right?

So if you can prove that, hey, we care about consistency, quality, and taste. And that's what the colonel represents. Right. So we've changed it from that kind of what it used to be, like touring, touring country and being at Disney World and all that kind of stuff. So really focused on what made him, quote unquote, a chef, right, is that discipline for quality. So that's what they brought back. I think there's, and I love the idea of bringing back Dave Thomas because in the same vein, because he represented, like anybody of any Gen X or remembers, like, what he represented,

right? So if you can bring that back, because everybody loves that, right? And as I said before, like Chick-Fleigh is doing it very well. And it's like disseminated into the entire culture of the company at every restaurant. So you can bring back someone like Dave Thomas and it still means a lot. Like what he represented is values that are still appreciated today. So you're just going to be able to leave in on that. Now, what I think would be interesting is how do you do that,

still have that, you know, what you were saying, as sort of snarkiness in the social media. And how does that marry together? And I was curious, because I haven't seen any commercials from Mondays. I've seen their social media stuff, but I haven't seen actually any commercials. And it would be interesting to see some of that pull into their marketing, right? And then even their digital experiences.

So it kind of all flows together. Obviously, we still want everybody to have a positive, experience in the restaurant, right, like Dave Thomas would have wanted. But just to attract them and get them engaging in, you know, the vibe of a pool and hip brand. That would be interesting. And for people that haven't been following, Wendy's has a very active social media following. They're very, I guess, reactionary in a good way. They call things the way they see them. They're not afraid to be a little provocative. And they get big reactions in that, at least on social, at least from, you know, being at the pulse of what's happening in the moment,

they've got that part nailed. And what we're saying is it's not translating into the in-store environment, which is a little more passive and neutral and not, I wouldn't say they take a stance in the story experience. Go for it, Melissa. No, I was saying that, like, I was thinking of kind of a potential fix, you know, kind of piggybacking on what Paul mentioned about Dave is, you know, bringing back, you know, I'm all about the vintage.

thing about old Wendy's, you know, kind of thing as well as new. And like bringing back Dave Thomas's signature menu items. Meaning this is like maybe it's, you know, it's his favorite burger with his favorite toppings, right? Fries and a frosty or whatever his go-to meal was, right? And like saying, oh, you want a Dave's meal, right? That kind of thing. And then like you could have a Wendy's meal, you know and wendy's got jalapino spicy chicken nuggets or whatever she's got you know and and that would be kind of a fun way to kind of incorporate that as well but i do think kind of bringing back that score value because i think what we look at when we think about dave is that he's he's the core he's the foundation of wendies obviously so like how do you bring that back into the day to day

especially with like these really complex menus and all of the things. I think it's like almost like that simplicity, like signature simplicity and going back to basics is like a wonderful thing. I think that would be a great way for them to start. I love that. I love the idea of like Dave's favorite items. We all love with nostalgia, right? And to your point, Dave was just like you thought of Dave, you thought of Wendy's. He thought of Wendy's.

He thought of Dave. And so how cool it would it be, even if it's a campaign that they run, right? Again, this is a part of this transformation. I think that would be so cool. And they can figure out ways to weave in the snarkiness. Again, maybe that does stay online, you know, the clapbacks and stuff like that. Maybe that's not in the restaurant that they do with their customers and that's fine. But, you know, maybe the way to go is to bring Dave back.

I think that would be phenomenal. I'm not picturing like a 50s diner where they, you know, throw straws at you and pop gum in your face. to create that whole immersive retro experience. But yeah, there can be something. We'll get to our fix in just a little bit. But there could be something about carrying over the social aesthetic into the store environment and bringing that to life. Again, not to the point of distraction, you're there to order a meal and get on with your day. But to make it known, you're in a Wendy's.

You know, if you took away the sign, you'd still know where you were. Yeah. That's right. Well, here's a question to everybody. So we're talking as I think we're all Jenna. X-Rexers here, right? So we're talking about nostalgia and Dave, how do we, how does Wendy's make it relevant to the next generation who, who, clearly they want because that's, that's the audience that's going to be buying the burgers. Because I know, I know I've kind of aged out of, you know,

you're going to say the C word, but cholesterol, heavy cholesterol food. So, so, you know, so we're not, we're no longer that ideal target market that's going to consume as much as they, you know, need their customer base too. So how do you, how do you link Dave relevant to that younger generation? Well, I'd say KFC did it. You know, the younger generation, the Gen Alpha didn't have memories of the kernel back in the day and maybe never overlapped in real time. But you take being the building blocks of the kernel and you put it out to a new audience

and say, look, you may not know this about us, but here's who we are. They did it in a way that it connected and continues to connect. So Ken, when he's followed, you know, the same process, they probably could if they chose to go all in and say Dave's back. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think, like, you bring up a good point, fall is like we might have aged out of that. But at the same time, now we have children or we have a generation underneath that. And so, like, they could even lean into that and say, you know, this is where your mom used to get her frosties.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, and, and do a promotion where it's like if I, you know, if I bring my kids, let's say they get, they get a day's value meal like some sort of, you know, or they get a Wendy's special taste sampler, right? You know, so that they get a chance to kind of hone into what is it that they were, they're missing out on with Wendy's because I think that would be, I get what you're saying is that like it is a very crowded space. And, like, kids today, they're like, oh, I would rather get at Freddy's because I like the fries at Freddy's or whatever. And they have ice cream there or concretes there, you know, all the kinds of things. So I think that it is a challenge because Wendy's, the competitive landscape is so full right now for them. It's not like when they started when it was just McDonald's, right? You know, and Burger King.

It's like, now it's everything. Well, holy cow, we've got to fix the situation. We've got a lot of building blocks here, though. So we've got transparency. We've got keep going with your digital transformation. That's the price of entry. So the kiosk, the self-service, maybe make those shortcuts where you want, do you want Dave's meal?

This is what Dave enjoyed. This is your entry point. If you don't know what to order, shortcut to Dave's meal. Or Wendy's meal, which has some personality and some attitude to it. Or maybe Aaron's meal, where it remembers me and pre-configures it. And do I want Dave's meal or my meal? I want my meal without pickles this time. And mass customization at scale.

If they're all in on customization, just keep that going and keep it to, you know, make sure that that experience, they're all about Dave's values experience, make sure the experience is there. If we keep doing that, we keep valuing our workers, keep making, bringing them into the experience that customers get when they walk in the door, make sure that you know you're out of Wendy's and not some interchangeable could be anywhere kind of location. If we put all of those ingredients together and hand them over to Wendy's, Melissa,

or how did we do? Are we in a better spot? You know, I think we've uncovered a lot of opportunities for them. I don't know that we've actually fixed it. I feel like they've got so much to have to fix that I'm a little skeptical that they'll be able to get it totally right. But I love what we've come up with. I love like that signature simplicity.

going back to their core values, creating that personalized experience. I'd love to see them do that. And I think that if they do it well, people will be willing to pay a little more. So it's not just about being the value meal like the cheapest out there. So I do feel like that to me is very promising. All right. So we're partway there for you. Kidiro, what do you say?

I'm going to say, yes. I think our fixes are solid. And again, I think they line up really well with the project fresh plan. So I'm really eager to see how this all turns out. I think that the key here for Wendy's is really around simplicity, which we've talked about and clarity more than anything. Just clarity around who are they as a brand. Clarity around menu leadership.

Again, what is going to be that signature menu item or experience that they're going to provide? clarity around value, whether that's reintroducing Dave and how his values transfer to today. Because again, I don't think they're that far apart. They might sound different or look different, but I think a lot of that they can still bring forward. I would definitely use clarity around purpose and use that as a differentiator. Again, we talked about some of the things that they could do from a CSR perspective. That could be a big deal for them. And then finally, just clarity of the experience that,

I am going to have or a customer is going to have when I walk into it, they walk into one of the restaurants or stores. So I think it's doable. Okay. I'm optimistic. Thank you, Kedera. Paul, what do you think? Having gone through this, I know it is definitely a huge task.

And it's multiple variables that have to be almost addressed at the same time. But I think some of the things that we identified today, I think, in terms of like the brand itself. I mean, I remember the food tasting. good. I mean, it was always an alternative to McDonald's. And I think I even, as a kid, I remember preferring Wendy's. It was just never conveniently accessible. So if they, if they still maintain that, I think it's really a question of the marketing. Like they, they, they got to really know who they are. And I think they've departed from that. Like, you know, the values that Dave brought about the freshness. And I love what we talked to with the Kadeira mentioned about, what does it mean about

of freshness, right, and looking at the whole supply chain and eco-friendly practices and ethical food source. You know, like, truly nobody does that well in the QSR space. I think Tripoli might as kind of the closest and they've kind of, that's kind of taken a backseat. But there is a huge opportunity in the burger space to be that brand that would champion that for for that next generation who cares about that. Right.

And if you make it a topic, so I definitely think there's an angle there. But obviously all that's that comes. with the cost because I know franchisees are looking at margins and you're talking about, hey, higher costs of meat because of its source this way and the food and paper costs. And so I get all that. And you got to appease the franchisee audience, right? You've got like I think Wendy's like 6,000 restaurants, like how many franchisees? So I think that's a tough way. But I do believe in it. And like, you know, call me optimistic. I like, that's the, that's kind of where I think there's an opportunity new for sure. But yeah, I think

what we didn't really talk about is how they translate, and I think we kind of touched on it, the social media, how does it go into their broader marketing and then trickle it into the actual restaurant experience? Because I haven't seen too much of that. I think there's definitely an opportunity there. So there's lots of things

at play for them to do. I think we definitely touched on things. I want to say there's definitely the two bringing back Dave and the freshness are things that could definitely turn this stuff around. I'm glad you said that, Paul. Then great synopsis.

I got inspired. All right, here's what we're going to do. Kadira, I'm with you. A thousand percent. We are going to bring the snarkiness into the brand and the full experience. We're going all the way in on it. And we're going to play a little bit of good cop, bad cop. So Wendy, Wendy is the, you know, can say what she wants to say, gets herself into trouble, goes a little too far.

Dave can pull it back and say, wait a minute, Wendy. or let's not forget about the ingredients or, you know, you get the Ying Yang situation. But we're going to lead with Wendy. Wendy's going to be our voice, our character, throughout the entire branded experience. Not always like, you know, with the talking head, but you get, you pick up a hot sauce,

like that's the hottest hot sauce they have, and it says this sauce hates you. Everything's got character to it. They can keep the snark going. Every package item is a branded opportunity. And then Wendy will just keep taking it to you And Dave will just keep saying, hey, hold on, Wendy. Let's talk about our value or our supply chain and how well we treat everybody, you know.

So we're going to play those dynamics for a good long time. I'm going to spend a bunch of money on advertising. It's going to be completely worth it. And that's our competitive angle. And people will never forget that Wendy's is Wendy's. Love that. I love that, especially on the packaging. Yeah.

I love like a snarky comment on every bag and it's different, right? Like, I think, like, one of them will be, which should be, like, how long will this bag be in the backseat of your car? Yeah. Right? Like, you know, like, that's the guy that's bad happen. Right? You know what I mean? Like, just things, I mean, it would be fun because, like, every bag could be different and you can have.

Or, I mean, it doesn't, it could even just be, like, literally screenshots of her tweets, right? Yeah. Amazing. Or it could just be, like, you get, like, a little. oh, that's funny, like when she was tweeting TSA, you know, and so, you know, all the things. Yeah. People will take it this far, but they could say our fries are bad for you and they're delicious, you know. Saying like that.

Or you just own, you own your own it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like there's that whole controversy about dipping your fries and frosties and like why, like why do people do that, right? You know, like there's all the things. Yeah. I love that, Aaron.

I think I love it. Love it. a lot. It came from all of you. So I think we're going to get spot. I like it. Well, okay, but that's going to cut us short. Not cut us short. We did it. But that is going to cut us off for this episode. We Fixed It. You're welcome. Just like Dave Thomas, we didn't cut corners here. We took our best shot at fixing Wendy's. Before we wrap up, Paul Tuscano, tell our listeners where they can follow along with

what you're doing now. And LinkedIn would probably be the best. I haven't really updated it too much since my departure, but I am working on a startup, AI-based personalized skincare, where we actually produce our products in France and have a ship to your door. So keep an eye out for that one. Wow, fantastic. Thank you so much, Paul, for joining us. Wendy's, we like you. Don't clap back on social. We're in your corner, and we're pulling for you, and we're trying to do some good here. Now it's your move to our listeners, our fixaholics. If you're into what we're doing, and we know you are, hit that five-star review wherever you get your podcast. It really helps more and more people

find our show. We like you already, but if you get everyone you know hooked on our podcast, we'll like you even more. If during this episode you came up with your own fix and you're yelling it back at us for Wendy's or any company that's been stuck in your brain, give it to us, record a short voice note and send it to MyFix at We Fixitpod.com. That's MyFix at We Fixedatpod.com, and we might just put you on our season finale. And speaking of that, we've got so few episodes left this season, the countdown is on. We're going to head back to the prep kitchen and cook up the next one. Thank you again, Paul, Melissa Kadira. Thank you as always. And we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode if we fixed it. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold,

and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.