We Hate Movies - S11: Episode 512 - Saw II

Episode Date: October 27, 2020

On the final episode of the 2020 Spook2cular, the guys are chatting about the totally wretched blockbuster sequel, Saw II! Why couldn't the whole movie just focus on the people in the house and leave out the detectives? Couldn't they get anyone for this sequel? And how EXTREME is that needle pit? PLUS: What if Jigsaw was a huge ECW fan? Saw II stars Tobin Bell, Shawnee Smith, Donnie Wahlberg, Erik Knudson, Franky G, and Dina Meyer; directed by Darren Lynn Bousman. WHM is donating 100% of our 2020 merch income to causes fighting for racial justice. For more information on how you can pitch in, head over to our website. Advertise on We Hate Movies via Gumball.fm Unlock Exclusive Content!: http://www.patreon.com/wehatemovies See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Andrew Jupin. Stephen Sadek. Eric Soska. Chris Cabin. And we hate movies. We all go a little mad sometimes. You know, it's Halloween. I guess everyone's a dash on.

I'm going to scare them. Sometimes. Dead is murder. That's murder. Zombies have entered the building. They're at the door. They're coming in. They're coming in.

It is time to keep your appointment. Does it come out? Keep your appointment. They're coming to get you, Barbara. You're sick for the foxy. Seen one too many. Now, sit, don't you blame the movies. Movies don't create psychos.

Movies make psychos more creative. What's the fucking ocean in the bag? What's an excellent day for an excellent day for an exorcism. Hello everyone. Welcome to We Hate Movies. Thank you for tuning in as always. This is sadly the final week of the 2020 Halloween spook ticular. That's right. You tuned in T-W-O-N-I-N-G. You twoned it. Twoned you to to clone something. Wait, what's going on? Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. We're still loving the twos here. That's right. This is a two. This is Saw Two from Aught Five, directed by Darren Lynn Boosman. You know everything you need to know about this movie from the production company logo because, oh, twisted pictures. Get right out of my face.

Twisted. Oh, it's Barb Wired. It's Twisted. Oh, back in Art 4 and all 5, we had our twisted horror movies, you know, don't you know? Back of the early arts, we did some twisted saw films. It is stunning to me. You know, we did the first Saw movie, a few spooktaculars back, and it was weird revisiting that. And we mentioned, I remember mentioning on that episode how, you know, even though there's some like extreme violence in that movie and all that stuff, it's not torture point. And like literally a year later, just to see the torture porn fly gleefully off the screen with this movie, it's so awful. Well, they took all the wrong notes.

They're like the worst parts of the first one are what they decided to base the rest of it on. Right, right, right, right. Because the first one is like, I mean, it's, I still don't like it. I have no desire to ever see it again. But I could see people liking it. It's like a two-hander. It's kind of a Twilight Zoni. Like, how did these two men end up in a room kind of a thing?

Absolutely. And that's the tension. And it's not exactly just another slasher, which is why it caught on, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was something different. And I totally get it. Like, I totally get why that movie exploded at Sundance. You know, the sequel was greenlit.

I think I read, like, based off of the Sundance reaction. I mean, I just want to say. Like, as a calling card movie, it's perfect. Like, calling card for whom? For James Wan and for Lee, why now? Uh-huh. I think it's like, you took a very small budget, and, like, this is exactly what studios always look for, is guys with very low budgets who can do a lot.

And, like, they did this thing, and it blew up immediately. So that's why, like, I forget what Juan was working on at the time that he couldn't direct this. I think it's dead silence, which I accidentally kind of watched this, my own. own little minimum we have to do a spooktacular of our own and we're like

just looking for something to watch accidentally watched it I did kind of because I was always curious about it did a doll come alive in your house

and turn it on or like that's oh it's the puppet movie right yes the accident was agreeing to watch it I think and not like by the two of us

I mean it wasn't her idea or my idea it was just there and I was like let's do that stupid puppet movie and it is irredeemably

dull what does the puppet do man it's just like it's just like an evil puppet, but it's like a haunted old lady situation. Ventriloquist dummies, I think specifically, too? Yes. It's like a creepy old lady was a ventriloquist

who died and made all of her puppets evil or something. Pre-Pree Annabelle, this is, but this isn't Annabelle in dead silence? You know, maybe. What are we talking about? Are you serious? I think that's a thing. I think that's a thing. I mean, I don't remember. I've seen the last

I want to say like 20 minutes of dead silence. It was a weird, it was a time where my dad totally surprised me. Oh, this is, I don't know if anybody can hear this. It's perfect. We're recording this on Wednesday, October 21st. There's fucking fireworks going on outside. We were talking about dead silence in the year 2020, and somebody got really excited about her.

Oh my God, they're talking about it. They're doing it. Dad, get the fireworks we're specific to have at this occasion. But Chris, thank you for mentioning the MCU here, the Mattel is explicit in the universe, that the fact that there's an Annabelle, there are all these little doll movies are connected. Yeah.

It was your dad surprised you. Oh, yeah. No, so it was one of those things like my parents, like, after. I thought your dad was shooting fireworks off. No, no. My dad does not care for fireworks. that runs in the family but no it was a weird like when i graduated high school all of a sudden i think my parents were like let's get all the movie channels like we famously growing up we just

had like HBO was like the one thing and that even took till like everybody telling you how cool the sopranos was and then we got HBO like it was so it was often on HBO and then it was finally like sopranos okay we're going to get HBO for real and keep it and not just do like summer trials and whatever so anyway cut to years later it's like some random the MGM movie channel 4 or whatever these endless things are and my dad just lands on

the last 20 minutes of dead silence and I'd never seen it but I sort of immediately recognized what it was because it was the dummy like from the poster and shit and I'm like all right he's going to change his channel well well son I gotta be honest with you I just always like

doll horror movies I love magic you know Anthony Hopkins is brilliant in it I really took to dolls Stork Gordon's beautiful dolls I thought it was a beautiful motion picture as well as the devil doll, the original of all the doll movies. What about doll man?

Also, a master, undersung, Eric. Undersung masterpiece. Well, he's just the size of a doll, though, dude. That's not a toy. That doesn't count. But he's stolen valor. It's dolls and it's horror, Andrew, my son. Okay? I don't know why you have my father talk like this.

But anyway, the point was he never changed the channel. And if there was ever a moment for my dad to be like, what is this shit? And like move on, it was fucking dead silence. And he didn't do it. My dad watched 20 minutes of the dummy movie and did say a word. And the ending isn't even that great. You know who's in that movie, by the way, and to bring this into what the hell we're supposed to be talking about.

Donnie Wahlberg playing a different detective. Really? Oh, man. That sucks. Oh, man. I thought you voiced a doll. So it's not the same detective. What is the detective in this?

Dave Matthews is his name? Eric Matthews, which I kept thinking, if you're a boy meets World fan, that's the name of the older brother. And you keep going, well, Detective Matthews, and I just keep imagining Mr. Feeney being like, hello, Detective Matthews. Oh, hello there,

Detective Matthews. Your brother Corey is tied up somewhere. Try to find him by passing one of my tests. That's right, my history test. I'm going to have to tap out of this one. I've never seen an episode. Oh, yeah, I don't know it either.

A point needs world? No, I mean, it's fine. Well, let's go back to Detective Dave Matthews then, you know. Jigsaw, open up. What was that song he does? Like, open up my door. What? That's a Dave Matthews song.

Oh, uh, open up my something and a little baby. Yeah, exactly. Let me out. Oh, yeah. Oh, I think it says, so much to say, I believe, is the tune. Oh, yeah. So much to saw. So much to saw.

So much to saw. so much to Saul, so much to Saul saxophone solo crash into a pile of needles. Here we go. See, this is sort of something. And we are

tripping junkies. Yeah, I mean, another, like any kind of warning sign you can take for Saw 2. Another one being, this was based off a script that Boozman like couldn't get produced and then it was like oh yeah well you know and then it's like well

we'll get your buddy lee back and uh you guys can refigure it and just i don't know making a saw sequel fuck it who cares for a while i guess l was working with juan on something but then became free so that's he has a co-writing credit on this uh but like boost the only other thing he's known for is that repo musical thing that it couldn't be bothered oh ripo the genetic opera yeah i did i've never seen it. Yeah, no, I never bothered. Even with the temptation of that being an Anthony Head movie. Yeah,

because of the temptation I had it on Netflix for about five and a half months, the disc, and I never watched it. I mean, it's quite the cast. It's Anthony Head who was Giles from the Buffy TV show. Paul Sorvino, Paris Hilton, Bill

Mosley, of course. Oh, yes. You know, giving you tons of reasons to want to watch this movie. So this movie, which you don't want to watch. It is, I mean, we start very saw-ishly where you're like, okay, this is saw two. Because we're just like, what do you call it there? It's a guy wakes up with a very similar mask as the one the lady Amanda was wearing in the first film there. Right.

Shawnee Smith. The great Shawnee Smith. And in this, like, she's really terrified in this movie because Becker hasn't been seen lately. And Bob is calling around to ask it for him. You know, you are on this high horse about Boy Meets World and you're throwing Becker bombs in my way. No way. You know what he's been throwing Becker bombs for a couple of years now, to be honest with you. Yeah, dropping the Beck bombs.

But no, Chris Cabin was the one that said, I don't know Boy Meets World. And I was just patiently letting it die. I'm very impressed at how good you do my laugh, Eric. I'm Bowser, apparently. I mean, today is an abnormal day for me. I was really hung over this morning, and it's Wednesday. Nice. Anybody, maybe we can get a sound drop for Becker bombs.

Becker bombs. I'll have to get it. I'll put it in the soundboard. I've seen like 41 minutes of Becker total. That stretched over like five episodes. Yeah, we can talk, Becker, if you like. I mean, the interesting thing about Becker, for me, as someone who lived in, you know, Astoria Queens, like you guys also did, they would double exteriors and Astoria Queens to be the Bronx.

How do you feel about that, Steve? I mean, you know, it's all the same. It's all shit. Expand on that. How have you ever, like, waited for your car to be inspected and not seen more than one episode of Becker? That's where you see most Becker is waiting for your car to get fucking fixed. That is a waiting room sitcom. I mean, I don't know, because I've also never.

I mean, I've seen it. insofar as like you turn on the television and whatever channel you left it on CBS or whatever the fuck. It's like, oh, now they're playing Becker and now I'll change the channel. Yeah, full disclosure, I got paid to watch Becker. So I watched the entire show pretty much in quality control back previous life. I was going to say, what I know Shawnee Smith from is A, who is Harry Crum and B, that blob remake with that rules. Yes, oh, the 1988 with, uh, Is it Matt Dillon?

Kevin Dillon. Del Close plays a priest or something? Yes, indeed. It's a good one, folks. Yeah, I just remember her from Armageddon from that pretty funny bit she has with Steve Bouchemy where she's got the, he's like hitting on her at a bar and like she just got engaged. She tells her it's a fake, he tells her it's a fake diamond and she's instantly like, oh, fuck, I've made a huge mistake kind of a thing. It's a fun reaction. It's, we will one day have to probably do who is Harriet Crump because it is.

is a secret Jim Belushi movie also. He has a cameo in it. That's right. When he tries to eat cherries with Harry Krum and it does not go well. Shawnee Smith is also I don't remember this might be

her. She's definitely in summer school. No dude, we're done talking about Becker. Becker bomb. Get your fucking Becker Bomb artillery and leave it for another day. Summer school, that was fun. Yeah, no, she's definitely in summer she might be like the teen that gets pregnant at one point in the movie i think that's her yeah um

yeah totally classic movie except for that fucking maniac kirstie alley's in it but other than that problem otherwise it's perfect it's citizen k it's a movie where the kids convinced the teacher to let them screen texas chainsaw massacre in the classroom i understand so anyway this motherfucker's like a cop snitch and he's got this helmet on his head and if he doesn't find the fucking key it's going to snap shut whoopty saw yeah i mean i think here jigsaw might be doing like a public service you know he does a lot of bad uh kidnappings and murders but this one it's like

this guy was ratting out his fellow man yeah you got to get that snitch off the streets dude get him off the street maybe he was trying to inform on jigsaw he's just walking up to him and like yeah man see that alcoholic over there we could get that guy and it's like yeah i know i know who you are snitch I know what you're about, Snitch. Did the first movie have a cold opening like this, or no? I couldn't tell you.

No, I think it opens with the, it opens with the drain coming down. It's kind of a cool shot, if I remember. Like a spiral almost. Yes, I think it goes, oh. Yeah, so like, you know, the tape comes on, or the television comes on. Here's everybody's favorite Billy the puppet, and he's, you know, it's like, you rat on people like a total scumbag so now you're gonna fucking kill you be killed if you don't find the key and it's like the whole riddle me this shit like oh it's right in front of

your eye or you know whatever you gotta just laugh with this fucking little puppet on like some fucking trashy little four by three tv like where do they even get this and also like you know what you give me 60 seconds i'm dead you give me an hour maybe i've got a chance because i got to psych myself up. The idea is the key side of his eyes got to gouge it out with some crazy garbage before this mask that will close and it's got like razors in it so it's going to kill him kind of. But not only that like he shows Mr. Jigsaw shows footage of the his eye being operated on two hours ago and somehow it's there's no like open wound on there. Yeah I don't I don't buy this shit because he's like oh yeah cut to two hours ago let's watch your

I was an autopsy footage but your operation footage and it's like at no point in the scene is he ever really like fuck it feels like someone cut my eyeball out put something in it and then put it back in isn't it bleeding though the eyeball it's kind of bleeding but like I'm sorry

man like if I just came from that crude surgery such as it probably was if I came conscious I would just be screaming yeah totally but like maybe there'd be like stitching of some kind that you could follow the road to where it is and I mean 60 seconds is just not

not even like enough because like that's the thing is he starts to try to do it and he gets really upset and he starts screaming help me help me and he dies but again like that's a cool thing if you give him like 40 minutes he's really got 40 minutes is a little bit of Jack Daniels there he's got like some fucking courage juice kind of a thing if you're giving me 60 seconds what you're doing is giving me 60 seconds to find a quicker way to die yes

somewhere in this fucking house somewhere in this room there's got to be a quicker way for me to fucking exit this place Look at the surroundings, like whatever jigsaw put in you, you're dying of an infection anyway. That's a good point. Yeah, he's not a red. He's not jigsaw MD either, by the way. It is, I don't trust this surgery, this Mickey Mess surgery. What are you talking about? I watched a YouTube video that explained it very succinctly. But that's a, that's a good call, though, Steve, like, because he's not a doc, like John, whatever the fuck. Like, he's just got some humdrum job. I don't know if we learn. what it is yet. I'm sure, like, because I know in the next movie, he gets killed at the end

of it. And then in the subsequent sequels after that, it's all just like flashbacks about how he met all his disciples and changed their lives and shit. So, like, you learn more about him that way. Is that right? Cabin, am I understanding those movies, right? A little bit, but you also forget that, like, the inciting incidents, the thing that makes him the jigsaw, much like the Joker,

is his, like, wife gets mistreated at, like, a hospital or something like that he's like he's going to be a father that's like his origin story you get his origin story it's christ and it's insane it's absolutely horrible it's it's i can't even describe it and i forgot i blocked most of the rest of this out of my brain uh but he's good he's going to be a father and he starts like setting up booby traps and his wife's nether regions to trip up the baby on the way out absolutely he makes a very tiny version of the head snapping thing. I like the idea that you're like his wife is mystery.

The fuck did you say to my wife? Hold on. Hold on. Honey, sit out. What did you just say to my wife? I am now going to spend the rest of my life trapping and killing people in philosophically bizarre ways. Okay? Just for that.

I'm going to have to look this up now just because like I, it is insane. It's a really, but go on. Hey, hey, hey, sit the fuck down. Sit the fuck down. I said no. lime jello for my wife fucking raspberry jello

only what is that green shit oh I'm gonna turn into a crazy mass murderer now why don't you have two nurses helping her piss huh why don't you why don't you help her well this movie has a little bit of like him explaining to Donnie Wahlberg like yeah I got that cancer diagnosis

and then the funniest line of the movie is I literally tried to drive myself to suicide and like he just drives his car off a cliff and then he like comes out of he's like oh I guess I'm invincible better fucking teach some people some lessons some manners why don't you put yourself

in one of your death boxes exactly dude you deserve it more than most and his whole philosophy of like people don't appreciate the lives that they have like maybe dude but at the same time

like if someone wants to fucking eat themselves to death or smoke themselves to death or whatever why don't you just mind your own goddamn business how about that you know Yeah. I mean, he's just such an old man in this movie. Like, you expect like one of these people like, oh, you're going to be trapped in a room and you're going to have to learn how to pull your pants up, young man. Okay. That's what you're going to learn to do. Okay. I remember,

okay, I've read it now. This is what happens. And what movie are we talking about here? This comes in and saw four. Okay. Um, and what he was a civil engineer and he had a wife named Jill, and she worked at a drug recovery clinic for addict and a reckless addict caused the death, not of her, but their unborn child.

Oh, I see. So he got really angry at drug addicts because they can't help themselves, you see. And that caused his baby to die. That's a real message franchise. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good stuff. That's like your baby die inside, Joe.

little eastern promises the ref for those not in the not in the no have him have him play fucking jigsaw oh that would be great and i know like for torture porn like going eastern european you know it's like not great but i could use some kind of presence here uh so like this dude you know the thing clamped shut on him him and he falls down dead and it's like saw two and you know like any movie you want to see it cuts to Donnie Walberg

smoking inside somewhere really important it's a it's a Roman numeral too by the way just you got everybody absolutely absolutely and it turns out his son has been caught stealing when I was fat never mind sorry do we

do we get like what he stole and where this is because they're all of a sudden like on a dock yeah yeah he stole brainstores no bone storm oh sorry yes bone storm no it's nothing I mean that's thing too there's so many like loose details

that like you kind of need if that's what the movie is about and this is one of them like you don't like he's like you're in trouble again I'm Donnie Wahlberg and it's like yeah I know or whatever and like

and they're having this fight and he's like trying to come to grips with this deeply Canadian son and you know it's hard his deeply Canadian son while he is trying Donnie Walberg is his damnedest

to suppress this New England accent. Oh, for sure. But when he's screaming at this kid, though, like, because the kid, of course, of course, he's divorced. And, you know, there's some sort of shitty custody thing. And the kid is like, oh, well, you know what,

Dad, you know, this sucks. I just wish I could go home to Mom. He's like, the fuck you say, bro! You know, you know what, Dad? I think I would have cut this early and go home to Mom. And he's like, Why don't you fucking go then? Just fucking go already.

Stop my fucking dunking on your way home and pick up some fucking regular coffee. He comes out and he's a tiny little bat for some reason. The perfect line. He must have it in his contract that he has to play divorced. I think even when he was in New Kids on the block, he had to be like divorce. You have the divorced one? I'm Joey.

I'm the cute one. I'm Donnie. I'm the divorced one. Hang in tough in family court. The best side is she gets custody. I get you out of custody. Aren't I right, Elks Lodge Brothers? Exactly.

Also, like, that's not exactly. So what's the deal? You guys are going to go to McDonald's after this? Like, you got to fucking chill out a little bit Sunday, Dad, okay? But I think that, yeah, I mean, because the whole just like you're screaming at him, it's like, you know what? We'll talk about this in a couple hours. when the cooler heads will prevail.

How about a trip to Burger King? And I mean, also what I need from this kid is like, I was stealing X because of why. Maybe it was, maybe he was going to the Tashi station to get some power converters. I don't know. Like, there's a bunch of-

Maybe he was stealing condoms because he was embarrassed to buy him at the counter. Sure. I'll be honest. He might have even said it, but this kid is such a non-entity in this movie that like, I just can't pay attention. Like, every time he talks,

I'm like, nope, I'm out. He is a non-entity, because once they get into the sawhouse, he just stands there the entire fucking movie and does nothing. He's a ghost. He's already dead. He's a ghost.

It's just the ghost son he's dealing with. And so like the kid runs off and then like cut to a couple days later you're talking about this is the most divorced moment of his, of Donnie Walberg's career as he calls up. He's like, hey man, it's your dad. I've been a couple days since we had that fight.

You're doing all right? Give a call back. I finally listened to that hip band you were telling me about Wilco it's pretty good stuff I gotta say it's pretty you know, dadcore I like I like that

I like I kind of like that I'll be honest I think it makes me feel good yo bro Donnie are you gonna be in the new saw movie oh shit bro you gotta say away from me that jigsaw freaks me out bro I don't want to get any of your weird jigsaw vibes

because I do I do a lot of shady shit buddy he could come down on me whenever. Oh, when the fuck ever, bro. Jigsaw could be coming for me right now. This better not interrupt your shift at Walburgers. So you like hate crimes, do you? Well, don't, well, Mark. It's just in a room. I don't know. Well, Mark, I let those things go. Did you, did you actually eat a grape off of a grapevine while shopping in the supermarket? Oh, yeah, yeah, that's a head crusher. That's a head crusher for you.

You know, Mark, it's take a penny, leave a penny. Not take a penny, take another penny. Okay, Mark, try to act your way out of a paper bag, but the bag is nails. Yes. And Paul Thomas Anderson isn't going to save you now. Oh, shit, bro. I got nails all in me. Fuck bumblebee.

Where's the bee? So, you know, Walbert gets a call. It's like, hey, man, yeah, there's this brutal death that we just uncovered here. Let's go check it out. We're pretty sure it's your informant. So you're like, okay, starting to connect the dots here a little bit. And, you know, he goes. And, you know, the guy, he says to the woman who's also, she's in the first movie, too, or no?

Dinah Meyer is not in the first one. But she's in other Saw movies, I think, though. Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers. She's also the woman from Johnny DeMonic, right? Yes. Okay. She had a career.

I mean, she's had a career. I mean, she's on non-a-to-no for a bit. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. But so she has some line about, like, you know, we need you to come identify him. And he's like, oh, bro, I just, you know, need one look at his face. And she's like, yeah, that's the problem.

Which I think is kind of a good line. Stopping some tweets. Deen Meyer was. and saw the first one, I guess. It's also weird because everybody else in the credits gets listed as detective this, a detective, that, and doctor whatever. This woman's a cop, a detective

herself, but she's just credited Dana Meyer's credited as Carrie. Like she gets people coffee, like, I don't know, she's a fucking detective, too. Yeah, that's weird. Maybe we don't get a last name or something. Possibly. Although that doesn't matter, because there are literally people later in the movie who

you never hear their character name spoken. And then in the credit, It's like they have these names out of nowhere, including the girl from Seventh Heaven. But, like, so, you know, they see the body or whatever, and there's a weird thing where, and this confused me for a really long time. Like, they look and it's like, oh, you know, the traditional jigsaw sign off of, like, he cut a little puzzle piece

out of the flesh or whatever as his little trophy. And when Donnie Wahlberg sees that and when this other detective, they both look at it, neither of them say anything about, like, it's fucking jigsaw yes and so for so much of the movie i was like so are they not aware of who jigsaw is because all the people in the house are immediately like oh i've heard about this we got captured by jigsaw you know what i mean but like from the jump they should be like fucking jigsaw he's at it again well that's that's the old script didn't have that you don't want to hit find and replace too many times

yeah that's true and also everybody knows i mean we've just the movie the first one is barely out of theaters at this point. Well, the funniest part about this whole thing is she brings him in and she's like, yeah, look, look around. This is your snitch, right? You've used him, blah, blah, blah. And he's, you know, who do you think might have done this? He's like, I don't know, blah, this, that, the other thing.

And he looks, and look, they have this whole argument. And then she's like, oh, by the way, look up a little bit. And it's like, look, look, here's looking at you, Detective Myers. Oh, right. Look closer, Detective Matthews. Yes, and it's like, dude, like, start with that. And that's what he gets pissed about. It's like, if my name is at a crime scene, please let me know immediately.

Do not like... Yeah, that's on the phone. That's on the fucking phone when you call him. Not 15 minutes after he's been at the crime scene. At that point, I'd be like calling my, like, well, I'm not calling my ex-wife, but I'm calling my son. I'm like, maybe go into hiding or something. If I'm being named in a murder scene. So I got a question about the whole jigsaw flesh piece that he takes out.

And, you know, Chris Cabin's pig and shit for these movies, seen them all. So maybe you can answer this, but does he, like, make a little puzzle out of all the people's pieces? Or does he eat it? Or what does he do with that? He never does either. I got to be honest, I don't think they ever really tell you what he does with those things. I think it's just another thing that's supposed to be twisted about him. Because it's a weird.

Great franchise. Yep, great franchise. he uh he mentions something in this movie about how the you know i i think he says something about like those aren't trophies for me it's to remind the people you know that i'm i've taken a piece of them or something it's something thanks thank you grandpa thank you i almost would rather hear i'm talking talk about qanon at this point oh jesus but i mean that's a thing too is like so like we said in the first movie and it's doubly true here and there's so little spent

on jigsaw himself and like what's with the pig mask? What's with the boxing fucking thing? What's with the... This boxing bathrobe that he wears what the shit? What's with the puppet? What's with the desk? You can't have it all jigsaw like find a theme and go with it.

And if in fact like this is what you're going to do so like pig wearing a boxing coat you know weird spirally looking puppet on a tricycle uh all this stuff like you're not the jigsaw killer like you're the hodgepodge mania isn't isn't pig mask isn't that shawney smith specifically or is that hit him as well he has it in the first movie for sure oh that's true right in the beginning he has so she's like

inherited the pig mask at the end is the idea okay so like you shall know be pig hey you're a little piggy now i think maybe what it could be is like because you know in the first movie i don't think you're supposed to believe in any way that it's like the first time he's doing any of this. So maybe it's a thing where like in one of his crazy games, there was he accidentally like caught himself a serial killer and it was just the pig mask

killer. And then like once that dude was dead, he was like, say, I can add this to my repertoire. I need a costume collection. I'm just imagining now Shawnee Smith looking at like the pig mask, much like a Kylo Red looking at the burnt Darth Vader like helmet.

Oh shit, it starts talking to him. I will finish what you start Yeah, I also, like, you're sending that to the dry cleaner first, the robe and all. You know what that old man ball smell in there? Actually, it's because I lived a very interesting life. Briefly, I was a boxer. I worked in a butcher shop, and I sold toys at KB. What is he, Homer Simpson with all these fucking random jobs?

I'm trying to connect. It's a jigsaw of a life, okay, man. I lived an interesting life. I'm trying to tell it through murder. Dude, that's going to be Tobin Bell's autobiography, dude, a jigsaw of a life. As it's revealed in Saw 4, he was a civil engineer, so no, he did not lead an interesting life. So just stop it right there. Well, he doesn't seem very civil. Now, does he? No, he does not. But that's like why you're supposed to understand, like, buy that he's

capable of designing all this goofy shit. That explains all of this nonsense. They have some, Wahlberg and Dinemeyer have this argument about whether or not he can take the case on at that time. And he's like, I got enough going on with my fucking ex-wife over here and my missing. and kid and all these other cases and they have this thing look it's it's intimated that they had an affair which is also sort of something that might happen in this movie it's not intimated they she straight up says later in the movie like that she is responsible for the fact that his wife left him yes but i mean in this seat it's like sort of it's like almost there but i mean but again like that's sort of like i don't know maybe something yeah lean into anything do you just start making out in the

middle of this saw movie, be like, you know what, this crazy, butchery, murdery case, like, it's got me so fucking horny. Look, Eric, I'm sorry, I'm okay, I'm sorry it didn't work out. You just, you know what? You just have trash dick, okay? I'm sorry. It's just true. It's very true. Your, your

dick is terrible, terrible. There was a key hidden in your trash dick. Oh my God. It's in the beanbag. You have 60 seconds to rip open the beanbag. No, I'm dying. Just let me die. Just let me fucking die. Then no way my tearing open my bean bag to get a key.

That is a real three. That would be like, all right, you've got to rip up your testicles. You have three days to do it or you die. And that's it. Like, you need, I need a long time to really ponder this kind of stuff. While you were asleep, I actually put a zipper on the bean bag, so it would make it a little easier for you. Oh, Lord. Wait, so he, like, sewed a zipper into my flash?

Yeah. Oh, then, dude, I'm fucking zipping in. Easy peasy, got that keesy. You can put some stuff in there. You can make a real change person out of that thing. You just tuck the ball aside and you can fit, you know, anything up there. You can put in some sticks of double mint and then you could literally do the, what is this, gum? I wouldn't need a messenger bag anymore.

I can put my phone in there. Oh, my God. Your ball smell like peppermint. Yeah, okay. Balls is where the gum is stored. There is a great line here from Donnie Wahlberg when they're having this. argument about whether it's like a conflict for him to be on this case or whatever he claims that this incident with Jigsaw is not the first time he's been

called out by a psychopath well that's the thing I mean with this whole movie hinge this movie is should be Donnie Walberg's movie a big mistake but B like it's just sort of like this character about he's like a crooked cop sort of and like you never know what how crooked he is and what he's crooked for even know that he's a good at police work at all. Like he doesn't really solve fucking shit in this movie. No, not at all. He just fucks everything up. It'd be one

thing if he was like, oh, he deals with serial killers or whatever and then that line might make sense about he's had psychos after him before. Yeah, like it just turns out he's like a crooked cop that plants evidence on people constantly.

Not fucking stop. I would actually prefer just lead into that, this like, scone bag, piece of shit cop who's like, like, don't try to make him heroic or like a dad who's trying to save his son. You know what it is? A stupid maniac. Here's what it is, cabin. You just inspired this. He is like John McClain at the start of Die Hard with a vengeance. Like, he's off the force. He's totally fucked it up. You know, and he's just a piece of shit. And then it's like, jigsaw's asking for you, dude. Yes. Like, we wouldn't do this, but jigsaw's asking for you.

So come on. Here's your badge back. Whatever the fuck. You can't be putting big lines. in Don't you be doing that. All that wit that fucking Bruce Bruce Willis has. I guess that's fair. Yeah, so like he figures something out. It's like, oh, it's Wilson Street. That's got to Wilson Steel, which is on, there's a, there's a fucking factory. Let's go see it.

And they set a SWAT team in. And this is when, and this is kind of fun, the initial raid. What happens? This is so funny. It's like a blade. How does this, how does this? first guy get it? I don't know what the fuck this is supposed to be, and

I realized watching it this time that not only had I seen this movie before, I remembered seeing it in the theater. Yeah, bad move. But I remembered then, too, being like, I don't entirely understand what happened here, because, like, the guy

steps on a, they're going up a staircase in like this weird caged stairwell. These are mean stairs, though. They'll stub your shin. But that's what I'm saying. Like he steps on one and a thing comes out and it's like, boop. And like sort of, it looks like it's pushing his shins.

Yeah. But I guess it cuts into it. I don't know. That's got to hurt. Actually, Detective Matthews, I don't kill anybody. I just put them in positions. Oh, wait, I kill cops all the time. But it's just like, it's such, this guy is horseshit and I hate him so much.

We see the puppet on, on a, on a, on a. bicycle here and then and then the shins happen and then I guess the fencing around the steps is electrified and it electrifies some of these SWAT dudes three of the SWAT dudes die from being electrocuted and yeah that one guy had like his his his leg essentially chopped off in some way and that that is the it's kind of the moment where I mean I still think oh yeah you know that first SWAT guy he's a Jay Walker he deserved it I still think that the puppet can be scary and like this moment where the puppet wheels up is at the top of the staircase that they're walking up fucking law enforcement or no i'd be like you know what

see you later everybody i don't know what the fuck that shit is i don't want to find out but instead hilariously the one guy like leading the team puts his gun up and like points it at this puppet and goes freeze well if you're somebody who knows about the the the bicycle riding puppet or you're like that's the original bicycle riding jigsaw puck that like if you already know like the Dahmer's shit is being auctioned off for money and all the stuff you

are going after that. You've got a whole plan to steal the original fucking bicycle doll from jigsaw and then Jonathan Davis would pay top dollar for that shit. Yes you get it on the black market and Jonathan Davis you know some black metal band from Sweden

they're all into this I do love though the one guy that's like still alive because the one guy that survives all of it just starts screaming like bring the fucking second team in now we just got wiped out immediately so all these other dudes run in and like run up the stairs every single one of them runs right past this guy I know!

Oh I loved it! What about oh shit Johnny's hurt or something that's sort of something. They don't even check on this guy they don't even acknowledge him. He's screaming for his life. Body pile, body pile, body pile, body pile. And they catch jigsaw jerking off on a Zoom call. Oh, man.

What a Duke test. He was doing an election simulation. And he was playing, you know, the court. It's not what it looks like. I just put a zipper in my testicles too because it's convenient to store stuff. Listen, I was getting stuff out. I just wear this basket, this boxing robe. You can see stuff all the time.

It's just the robe, no undies or nothing. I know that the white t-shirt would suggest that I also have boxers down there too, but no, no, ma'am, no, no, no, it's free flying, free flying all day. I've gotcha, no pants. I'm straight Donald ducking it tonight. Quack, quack, quack, motherfucker. Isn't that pretty twisted? I mean, no, like my dick, it's fucking, looks like a duck's dick down there.

It's like a corkscrewed dick like a duck. It's because I got... So, yeah, they they seize him. He's just at his table. He's got like an IV and all sorts of stuff. And he immediately surrenders. Oh, wow, what a short saw movie. Guess again. Oh, yeah, because as it turns out, Donnie Wahlberg has to solve the problem in that room. And like they go across the warehouse floor into this other little caged area. And there's all these computer monitors, hilariously huge computer monitors for 2005, by the way. And there's all these people lined up in a room. And you're like, oh, so there's the movie. Yeah, I've been looking for you, movie. Here you are. You were under this cloth the whole time.

Took you a while to come out, but it's okay. Come out now. And there's all these people in there, and they start freaking out or whatever. And fucking Jigsaw explains that there's, like, toxic gas going on or something like that, and that the sun is going to bleed from every orifice he has. he also says like if you remember the Tokyo subway attacks

and I'm like no nope don't I don't remember that like I have a vague recollection I don't remember the gas compound that was used though and also don't do that don't do that saw to leave it alone yeah exactly

I don't know if you've seen this in the news lately have you heard about this Tokyo subway attacks there's also invisible wasp stinging you all the time. You don't know about that, but it's happening as well. There's invisible beasts roaming around that could eat you.

There's so many things that could, other than the things that are going to kill you. So yeah, we cut to this warehouse where it's the sun and a bunch of people. Dude, I had to like go through it because like, they're so fucking terrible at introducing these people in any meaningful way. So it's first guy that was in jail.

whose name turns out to be Jonas. Cowardly son, who's Michael. Guy who looks like the bus boy from Seinfeld, that's Xavier. That's a, yes. Then you got fat Dave Matthews. His name is Gus, apparently. You never learned that.

Seventh Heaven Girl, her name is Laura in this movie. Never learned that. There's other girl I just called her. That's Addison, never know that name. Shaved Head Hoodie guy. He's Abbey. And then the only one with any sort of presence or character composition

at all is Amanda previous jigsaw hostage you know goes on to be in several other saw movies after this So Abbey is mentioned by name with the note coming up and Xavier is mentioned by name

I remember that Yes he's about it And yeah the And he's like a big dude He's a hulking And you can totally tell this movie is Twistedly stitched together

Because it's very obvious Whatever the script was Was literally just whatever this house is It's like, how do we get through the house? Da-da-da-da-da-da. We have to work together. Uh-oh, who's it on, who's not?

And this Xavier guy goes nuts. And, like, that's what that movie is. And then you keep cutting back to this other movie, which is just fucking John Kramer jawing at you. Yeah, like, I think you, I hadn't thought about this, but as you were saying it, it totally makes sense. Like, Xavier would, like, you know, become like Jack Nicholson and the Shining kind of thing.

He's chasing after all these people. He's killing some of them himself. kind of a thing. Yeah, you're totally right. It might have actually been compelling in this movie had we had an actor in that role that could portray those emotions properly. Right. You know who dropped out? No. Henry

Rollins. Oh, that's right. You know what? You know what? Worst movie. Worst movie. Kevin and I thought the exact same thing. I agree, but it would be more interesting to watch. Well, because at least it's somebody. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?

is this actor Frankie G who I've only seen I saw him he's in Oz for a little bit and he's a big menacing dude you know what I mean so that's sort of something but you do want more of an actor there for sure but like Henry Rollins would not do good in this role A but B like the fact that I don't know who this guy is actually allows me to just enjoy the performance as is like I could I don't really enjoy the performance if I guess believe the performance like go along with the performance right the performance. perform it. Oh, actually, Frankie G. was not in Oz. He was in, he's the muscle in confidence that terrible Edward Burns, Dustin Hoffman movie. Oh, isn't he also in that 50-cent show? Yes, he's in power. Power, yeah, yeah.

That's the 50-cent show, right? I'm thinking of the right show I'll never watch in my life. Yes, the main character is named Ghost and Not Power, so it kind of confuses you there. Yeah, you want it to be about John Power. I want a Power Ghost. That'd be a good name for a movie Power Ghost. It's this ghost that, like, is big and, like, over, like, just grabs you and starts, like, overpowering you. If you, oh, you walk into Canon with that title, they're going to give you your money.

Absolutely. Power ghost. He has $200,000 and $400,000 and $400 squeeps. Make us power ghost. You could do, like, an electric angle with him. Like, he died with electricity, but it's not that. He's just a dead big guy. That's it.

Every meeting, it's the Canon guys, and there's two dumpsters. One has money in it. one has squibs and you have to dump it and grab each need move in two weeks two weeks power ghost on desk two weeks 90 minutes no minutes more do you think they do that steve the two different buckets like the money bucket the squid bucket do you think they do that the same way that um nicolodeon used to do those toys or us shopping sprees where it's like you had 60 seconds to dump as much into your card as possible whatever money you have is budget whatever scrimb you have is squib.

That is it. You have 90 seconds. We have action stars all over the offices. You get which one you find. You take that, you put it in baskets. Michael Dudikov answer phone. You grab him. He, you're a star. He now power ghost.

Oh, you got special. John Luke Goddard round. Okay. Oh, yeah. What movie of his did they do? King Lear. Oh, that's so weird. Insane.

So the jigsaw tape comes on in the house. And he is basically telling them they're locked in there. There's a poisonous gas that's going to liquefy their organs in a certain amount of time. They have to work together to find the key to get there's antidotes hidden throughout the house. Because the doors are going to open automatically at a certain time, but not before they all die from this gas. So they have to get the antidotes. Then they can use the antidote and just wait until the door is open. Is the idea?

Right. Oh, I'm just going to take a big nap then and let that gas just over. overtake me like a warm blanket absolutely 100% because I or you know I'm gonna get like a like a fucking hoodie put it over my face kind of like get in the corner over room and just hope for the best I again am going on a search for where what's a quicker way for me to die yeah what's the quickest way around here like the guy fucking fat Dave Matthews has got the ticket right here oh yeah dude oh man this dude eats shit almost immediately it's a good grill uh it's this is a weird thing though because it's Xavier that unlocks this door

but it's this dude Gus that is looking through the peephole and like I've never seen a two person operation for opening a door before like if you're unlocking it you should also be the one looking through the people also fat Dave Matthews is not like seeing anything

like if he's seeing it I think he's seeing like the barrel of a gun why are you what are you intently looking for yeah I mean also like it's it's against a rules to open or it's like don't open this door, blah, blah, blah. Like, hey, I'm not killing anybody. I'm just sitting up guns. Whatever happens, happens. This is a special lock, and you have to make eye contact with the eye hole while

you do it. Make sure you do that or it won't work, okay? Hey, I'm not a murderer. I'm just a big fan of Bugs Bunny contraptions. So they book them on like vehicular manslaughter. So yeah, the P. Pole has a gun on the other side of it. And when they go to pull open the door it goes off and murders this dude instantly. It's kind of great. You know why it's kind of great? Because it's not a torture porn death. It's an in and out death.

Right. Just his brains are like bleeding. You get it. And in a better movie, the rest of the movie is them trying to figure out how to get the gun out of that thing so that they can eat, kill themselves in a nice easy way. You're totally

right. Because that's the other thing, Chris. It's very important. If you find yourself stuck in a sauce situation and you just want to fucking you know check out on your own terms you still have to find like the least painfully non-tortuary way to go this is genius chris we should make this movie we called scene yes absolutely just all just try to kill themselves i'm getting out of this one guys yeah i'm not go oh i have a poisonous gas it's going to make me bleed out of my asshole and my eyeballs i'm good to go man it's like who would be the most comfortable with throwing themselves down the stairs because what we could do is we

could each just strangle each other and the last person left just throws themselves down the stairs. That's what you, it's seen, but it's S-C-E-N-E and it's which one can make the best death scene. Oh yes. That's how you do it there. Yes. It's got to be like

indecipherable hogwash just like this movie. Oh, absolutely. So many elements that layered. Write it in a bathroom in three hours. Otherwise it's not good. And yeah, so they're like trying to figure out like how to get This house, the idea is one of the things he says is there's an antidote in the, in the main room they're in, but, and there's a, it's a safe and the combination will, uh, will open once you realize how you're connected and something, something. And by the way, the combination is in the back of your mind. Hey, just putting it out there. It's pretty fucking funny.

And nobody, the twist is they have numbers in the back of their necks. No one else is like, hey, dude I'm just walking behind you right now could I I I know we don't know each other we're all trying to kill each other why do you have a four on the back here yeah you're totally right dude because like could you be fair to I like a number on the back oh I do okay so that's so wait am I a clone I get that like some of them maybe like their hair is longer and you can't see it but like that dude Jonas Xavier both close cropped haircuts yes there's no hiding it unless you were like putting it under the collar like on a shoulder

bone maybe but like no right and it's supposed to be the combination to a safe and it's like first of all why would i even believe this why would i believe jigsaw at all and then it's like how many different combinations am i going to have to do of these numbers and am i going to get it exploded for doing it wrong well that's the thing because at the end of the movie that becomes xavier's motivation it's like i'm the one that figured out that there's numbers in the back of our necks if i find and kill everyone else that i that's in this with me and get their numbers i'll be able to open and get the antidote. But yeah, like, what's the order? That's the big thing. Because, like, some of them have numbers that are like in double digits

already. And it's like, what safe has more than three numbers for a combination? Oh, yes. I see. You know what I mean? It's like, you only get fucking three turns with a safe. Great, great call. Why do, what are there, six or seven people in this house? Like, what are you talking about? I'll admit it now. I'm sorry, there's a smaller safe inside the safe. I thought it would be a funny joke, but it came and useful anyway. Because it's eight numbers. Because there's eight people, so eight numbers for a safe.

All right. Yeah, the numbers are meaningless. I just ranked you by what Police Academy movie you reminded me of. Oh, you're a real mission to Moscow, Jonas. Oh, look at you, Operation Miami Beach. I mean, it's just, yes, I'm just

imagining what the 14th Police Academy movie was. It would be pretty good. Oh, the cops, son. I think you're citizens on patrol. Got a real bobcat energy there, pal. It's ridiculous. And like, yeah, like, what's her face wakes up?

Amanda and does explain that, hey, I was in this other movie once. Yeah. Like, I think it's when the gun goes off. She is like, oh, it's a game thing. I know what's going on here. I've played before. She keeps screen. Like, it's kind of funny.

I feel like this character. gives up the ghost if you look back on it after knowing like what the quote twist is because she's such like pro jigsaw through all of this she's like he's just testing us he doesn't want to hurt us we just have to do what he says it'll be fun i mean fine uh yeah and like meanwhile donnie walberg is really pissed off about this whole situation and jigsaw gives him the rules to his games like all you got to do is sit down and talk to pepaw for 90 minutes and at the end of it your son will be fine and everything will work out and like Donnie Wahlberg

is obviously to Boston to do that which is what the movie the movie should be called two Boston for that we never sit down and we never ever shut up and listen

and I'll tell you what maybe during the last dirty minutes me and you can watch some Grace and Frankie I hear it's a pretty hip show all you need to do is sit down

fix my fucking DVR I cannot make heads or tails of it enter in the Wi-Fi password that's a that's a minefield for old jigsaw all right Donnie Walberg you have exactly 30 seconds to sign up my Amazon Firestick and get Netflix working look yes I know you can drink it from the bottle

but I like my insure in a glass with ice okay oh with ice yeah I'll have insure on the rocks please. It's short, neat for me. The key to their ordeal can be found over the rainbow. What was that about?

That's a good one. Got me swinging, man. I think because Donnie Wahlberg is a leprechaun, right? Got it. Uh-huh. That checks out. But yeah, so that's his, that's Donnie Wahlberg's plight and he doesn't want to do it.

And Dina Meyer is like the saw expert, because she was also in the first movie apparently got me again good on me it would be a nothing role I don't remember her at all but she's like all we have to do is do what this guy says by the way we're gonna get tech support in here and we're gonna find and we're gonna trace the signal

the funniest part of this movie is how fucking long it takes tech support to show up oh my god dude what else did they have to do that day they keep calling them and they're like 10 more minutes it they keep like bringing that up so like they keep bringing it back in the movie so many times

that, like, when they finally got there, I was just like laughing. Because they're all, all the characters are getting pissed off? Like, are they still not fucking here? And it's like, this thing is now turning into a joke in your movie, but not in the way you hope it is. All right, Donnie Wahlberg, we're going to be there in just

a few minutes. We're just about out the door. I know, wait a minute, I got to take a their call. Hello? Hello? What do you mean the chief clicked on a, you want Russian singles link? what do you mean what's happening to his computer oh shit okay oh god okay that's not good that means that the files are on the internet okay that's not good do you want to play a game

you won't last five seconds uh oh the chief got some malware on his computer because he was watching a fucking rancid joi video again uh he was trying not to come but he failed the game look at donnie walberg i know that you've got important issues but uh i'm i'm I'm like, I'm up to here with this stuff, man. Up to the neck. Up to the neck with just like porn. Bad porn. The other way that goes is like they're just out on a long lunch kind of a thing.

Like maybe it's the end of the fantasy football season and the winner's got, losers got to buy the winter lunch. They're having to, it's Friday before a long weekend possibly. Oh, definitely. And it's like, you know, she keeps calling. Are you, are you guys still at the bar? I can hear, I can hear that. No, no, no. We're totally in the car.

dude hey you want more wings bottomless wings actually my actually my fries are a little cold could you repeat these back there oh no yeah we'll be there very soon oh fucking traffic man

they're doing the thing where it's like no we just left we just left oh I've done that before I just it's are you doing the jerk off hand motion right now I can hear it I can hear it on the phone

no no I definitely I'm not sitting at home without shoes on right now. So that dude Xavier starts freaking out and he's like, and this is where the movie, this jigsaw conceit here has a big issue that the movie thinks it addresses, but definitely doesn't. Because the idea of, you know, it comes right away, like, all right, you're locked in this house. Why don't you just fucking, you know, break a window, break the door down, whatever. and so this dude Xavier like

tries to rip this door open he gets it part of the way open and then whoops there's bars there but my whole thing is like all right man you have this like bat and you know whatever else maybe like it's a shitty ass old dilapidated house why don't you try just breaking right through a wall

because he doesn't have like metal over the entire structure that's great point or hey you know what you want to really test what fucking you know jigsaw did here set a fire see how much of this shit really burns because I bet you there's some spot he didn't think about

and you know what you'll be fine I don't know I mean look the other thing which we'll never talk about in these movies where does he get the money for this shit like this is like he makes a danger room inside of a fucking crack house and it's like how did you do that? I'm a baby boomer and I made you know

I put myself to college and you know I actually I don't get to talk about this much but I own the original patent on the original sex swing. A pet project of mine for many years. My first contraption. She was my baby.

Yeah, I was a baby boomer. I put myself through college waiting tables, by the way. I bought a house for a meager $5,000 and then I sold it for $4.9 million last year. Oh, and also, right when I got out of college, my dad gave me a million dollars for no reason. And now I am here, a successful

23-year-old in the New York Times. real estate section telling you how you could also make your dreams come true it was really just a you know modest loan to get the sex swing going I you'll be surprised to know this I actually invented the board game mouse trap a little little funny what I decided to do with my skills after that you know they always ask me like how did you do it and I you know I usually tell them bravery it's just my dad's money it's just my my dad gave me a lot of money I also invented the sex slide which

didn't work out. It's basically you climb up a little slide and then you slide down it. There's a dildo at the bottom and you're trying and catch it. But it's kind of that's just one pump, then you've got to go up again and never really worked out. Slippery when wet. There was a

short run cereal that I had in stores called Fuck Flakes. We dusted aphrodisiac on cornflakes so that you would get hornier in the morning. They thought it would really help a lot of people get through the workday. I frosted them myself.

Jigsaw's fuckflakes. I'd like to see that art. Another, uh, another, uh, failed invention of mine was the sex trampoline. It's just a regular trampoline with lube all over it. And kind of a bad idea. And listen, all those deaths, they were accidents, as far as I know from the sex trampoline. Uh, they were all, you know, accidents ruled by, uh, San Antonio, uh, Pete. It was, uh, it was, uh, it was. was a big seller in one household though

comedian and actor Dan Aykroyd bought six of them I had these sex earthquake bridge I actually don't know how that works I just kind of wanted to say that out loud yeah so I decided to phase out

of the sex toy game and get into the murder playground game instead so yeah but jigsaw's like look if you you know it's just me and you If we sit down and talk for 90 minutes, I promise your son will be fine. And like, Walbert can't hang, man.

He's just, he just cannot handle it. No, he cannot. Because he's just, unsurprisingly. Because the whole thing is he just keeps being like, isn't it fucked up how good things happen to bad people? And isn't it weird? Like, what if we're all in a cave right now? You ever think about that? Like what we're, what we're seeing?

It's a fucking freshman philosophy nonsense and I couldn't stand it. I couldn't help but keep on, like, imagining that he's like, and you know, my brother, I mean, he just had more talent than me. My, my, you know, my younger brother. And he got really famous and I didn't, you know, and it's really bad, you know. And I got really bitter about that all years that my younger brother was more famous than me and like just keeps on going. Yeah, it's just, it's old man nonsense that nobody needs. No, absolutely not.

And like, the kind of funny thing. though is on top of all of that he's also just like and by the way friendly reminder you used to be a pretty good cop yes I bet you know it starts he starts laying the foundation for us like finding out more about

Donnie Walberg being a shitty cop but like it's this weird thing where he's like and again this like this jigsaw ulterior mode of excuse garbage he's like I just want you to learn how to be the virtuous cop with purpose that you used to be and it's like shut the fuck

Before we proceed with the murder stuff, I just want to let you know that I don't support defunding the police, okay? That's my favorite idea is him as like a cop scout. He's like following all these random cops seeing how their careers are doing. And if they take a wrong turn,

like what do you care? What are you doing with their time? That's a great point though. Like what is, what is he basing any of this on? Like it turns out to be true. Yeah. And Donnie Walberg like did, you know, frame all of the people that are in this house by

planning evidence and getting them put away to jail and whatnot. But like, how? Where is this knowledge coming from? I'll tell you. Go ahead. No, I'm sorry. The first movie, you know, he's killing Carrie Elway's, who was his cancer doctor, and he gets obsessed with him because he gives him the bad news, and that's like sort of a movie. But yeah,

I have no idea what his connection is to Donnie Warbrook, and we need to know that. Well, maybe he saw him in Blue Bloods and thought he was the same thing. And he just started to destroy him. Honestly, I'm kind of tired of watching you play a cop daddy Donnie Walberg I'm going through the whole cast of blue bloods

actually after I'm done with you next weekend I got a fucking big mouse trap thing with Selick gonna take Tom Selick to take I already tried to put one of the head crushers on him and sadly his mustache overpowered it welcome Tom Seleck to the reverse mortgage house so whatever man they fucking go down in this basement there's a big like furnace thing all there and everything and they find another tape it's

this dude abby you find out that he has helped jigsaw drug all these people to get them to the house it's kind of great because like it's it's typical we would do this boomer jigsaw thing it's no more ever here because like the notes is obi and somebody's like who the fuck is obi and then the guy's like actually my name is abby and then the tape starts playing this hello obby and it's like he can clearly like five times with like jigsawed him we're working this out he's like actually it's obi no it's it's obi i know what it is yeah i got it yeah i'm gonna have to punish you for the sin of taking my money to kidnap people and bring them here i didn't do anything that was you that's another totally unexplained thing is because the guy doesn't deny it and he does say

though like he tries to say to xavier one of the people like oh well he didn't give me any choice blah blah blah like i need to know what that's about you can't just drop that shit dude i need to know how jigsaw is recruiting these people to help out because that's the thing in the first movie you know uh lee one l plays a private investigator who is like you know scouting uh accidentally scouting uh karyl was for jigsaw he doesn't know that but you know what i mean that again that folds in on something and i believe also because it it turns out that uh michael emerson in that first movie is jigsaw's little like Renfield helper person.

And if I'm remembering right, you do at least get some explanation of like how he met Jigsaw one day or something. I feel like they do get into it later. Like I'm telling you, I hated the like the latter sequels of this so much that I just blocked them out. Like I completely forgot them. But I do feel like they talk something about how he gets all these recruits. I mean, but that's the thing is it's not in this movie so I can't care. No, yeah. I mean, this movie sucks.

I mean that's the thing man Like say what you want about and here's the thing I understand for a certain age of folks Like this is sure Their horror franchise whatever it's fine Mine is Friday the 13th I also understand that those movies are also like Totally the same through all of them for the most part

But at least in those movies I don't have to hear something like oh Well that thing that you're asking about in part two They explain it in part seven don't worry about it. You know what I mean? Like, it would never cross their mind

of fucking retcon, stupid stuff like that. The problem is, all these movies are mousetrappy, like complicated, and they don't pay off. You know what I mean?

Whereas the Freddie movies and the Jason movies, it's just like, he's gonna get you. And like, that's all you need to know. Uh-oh, he's gonna get you.

But also the thing is these movies aren't fun. Like, no. And they're not engineered. Like, some people have a take, like,

there's a way to explain that they are fun. But I'm like, It's not designed that way. The music certainly isn't supposed to tell you fun. If, Cabin, can you, and if you can't, let's move on. But in, like, less than 30 seconds, can you explain what that theory is of how these movies are fun? Well, like, that you could, I've read something about how, you know what, 30 seconds isn't going to do it, so fuck it.

It's totally, it's, you know what? And that's why I said it, because I honestly don't care that much. There's definitely a pedigree of people out there. are that do like torture porn-esque movies like this and hey man get away from me yeah i mean you know whatever gets you fucking horny i guess i mean it's fine to like it's always okay to like a movie and i mean like i and again like i think if you grew up with these or whatever it might color your vision a little bit also by the way speaking of color your vision this movie looks like shit yep it looks at the riddler's house all everything is so disgustingly green but

it's like a brown swamp green though dude it's like I ate a whole boatload of kale yesterday and here it came calling back and decorated the Saw 2 house that's another thing about this movie and this franchise

as well because it's just like oh you know what's really scary a dirty old bathroom that's terrifying actually no it's really scary not knowing what's happening in the movie because you can't see what's going on at all never there is an antidote inside this furnace

Obie goes in to get it or Abbey depending on Oh, Obi-Wan Kenobi That's a name I haven't heard And quite some die So he burns up in this fucking furnace Now Chris, does he come back As a forced ghost in one of the secrets Yes, in the fifth one actually

He comes out at the very end I think that's the way This shit should have gone Like at the end of that third movie Somebody fucking like cuts his throat And he straight up dies Like that much I remember But then if you're gonna go on

To make that fourth one You gotta fucking do a Friday the 13th Part 6 situation And it's paranormal town Yeah You know? Why not? Oh yeah

All the like the big victims Show up in like Pute Green Force ghosts Oh yeah All the big victims All these fucking characters That you'll definitely remember Harry Lways

Obie and like nobody else because obi burns up here pretty good it's pretty great but this is a thing that it just because like you know what's going to happen to this guy you know what I mean there aren't that many dead people yet in this movie this motherfucker's

not making it out of here can we just move it along he's got to scream and hope and pray to get out and it's not going to come he doesn't cry which is shocking I guess only women do that yeah in these movies well the fire evaporated the tears

oh sure but like so you just have to sit there and like watch this dude slowly cook up you know he's uh just stuck in there they are like helplessly trying to open this thing you want to keep him under a medium flame to keep him even for sure yeah yeah you don't want to overdo it and cook one side too fast yeah yeah good sear on there and turn that temp down you know what they say you know that the hardest thing to cook is a roasted human

yeah that's for sure and it's trying to get it perfect it's kind of a test for a good cook yeah you're going to have to cook a lot of humans before you finally get it right you know it's always important to put a lemon up the butt oh absolutely just to shove a half drunk beer can down their gullet get that flavor in there that's how you'd get me in an oven there are two beers in the oven dude well that was pretty easy Jesus, he just went right in there. The tape wasn't even over with yet. Does he know, like, what's going to happen?

Like, the sink's going to be five. Wait, that wasn't even part of the... Oh, fuck, he's drunk. Okay, great. We'll have to try this tomorrow. What they do... I think after almost every big death in this movie is, like, after the mayhem stops...

Easy with the B word there, pal. Big, big death. Yeah, true. So all of these like death set pieces happen and whatever. And like it does the stupid filter like more, we're coming out of the security camera back into the other movie. Yes. And never, at any fucking point are these people's,

these cops reactions appropriate to what they just watched. Like they just watched a dude cook up in this furnace and then like scream as he almost gets out, but then like can't fit out the window and just dies. And it's just Donnie Wahlberg being like, God damn it, Jigsaw. Now, where is my son? Like, you got to have a little compassion. At least what you have to do to even pretend like these are the same movie is cut back and forth and like watch them and have these detectives or the swap people be like, no, no, no, no, what's you going to do?

No, no, no. And then like, you cut back to the dude screaming and then you cut back to the control. Exactly, and or, and it'll be like to kill people. Jigsaw, you said of a bitch, you don't know that man burned to death. That's a movie. Or, yeah. The stupid reveal of who these people are happens early enough that it's actually interesting to see his connection to them and everything that's happening after. Right.

Like, I mean, there's nothing here, though. You're just like, yeah, I'm just looking at a screen of death. Screen of death, indeed. Around here is when we get the big flashback because he's talking with Donnie Walbur. and he's going, talking about the cancer diagnosis, and you get the little nod to Carrie Elway's here because you see Jigsaw walking into the doctor's office and it's, you know, Dr. Lawrence Gordon Oncology, like, on the wall.

No carry Elway's appearance, unfortunately, though. And then this is the whole, like, yes, so I attempted suicide by driving my car off a cliff. And him, dude, I got a fucking major loud, because he's like, he's like, so I lived through the crash and I was tested immediately because he's got. what looks like the piece of a sword like stuck in him him pulling out this sword I was laughing hysterically he's screaming oh my god I grab my sword collection fired up the

Johnny Cash and drove off a cliff you should just start doing the whole groundhog day thing then I put a toaster in the bathtub that didn't work he's got his cat on his left don't drive angry check your mirrors out of the side And then I learned, I taught myself to play piano, and I impressed Andy McDowell quite well. Then I started smoking and eating a bunch of junk food, trying the long game to kill myself. Here you go, Michael Shannon. Some wrestling tickets for you and your bride. There's a homeless old man. I stopped murdering every time. Come on, come on, dad. You're going to make it. You're going to make it.

I saw my annoying friend from high school And I didn't punch him in the face this time Oh dude You get Tobo in one of these saw movies We've got ourselves a movie I couldn't take it though dude I could yeah that's true I would want him to just

Like it would be really scary And then like Tobo wouldn't even get a cut on his finger And it'd be just fine Oh man No like Tobo if Tobo was like the dispatch operator or something Like way far away Maybe he's only on the radio Oh no

Tobo is the good jigsaw. Mm. You know, he makes like little... Saw jig. Yeah, there you go. Oh, good old saw jig. It's me sawjig. If you, you don't have enough money, but guess what?

I hit a $100 bill in your house. I make contraptions that help people. You know, if you could get this door unlocked, there's a whole lot of chocolate behind it. Uh-oh, your daughter needs all that diabetes medication. I mailed it to you. Your can opener doesn't work I made a homemade one Here you go

Oh man Yeah because I don't think Oh David Sawjig was a creation He was the man who played Sawjig in 18 movies Those were the nicest movies Ever made It would have to be Sawjig

Dude because there's no way I could see Tobo Get brutally murdered in a Saw film That's fair Like single white females hard enough as it is. No, that's actually a lot of fun. But yeah, so around here also you get a little Amanda flashback. She talks about being a junkie, yada, yada, yada. There's another door here.

They get into a room. There's a door with another countdown on it that says four minutes. And then here we go, everybody. Twisted pictures. You're getting extreme. It's time for the needle pit. So is this the steel door in this room? this I didn't understand completely. Is that

going to be a door out of there? I think that's what they're hoping for. Oh, yeah. Because that was never clear to me what exactly he was saying is beyond that door. Yeah, no shit. It's a terrible movie. That's okay, but like, Jesus, that's just a major thing. I mean, Cabin,

you're right insofar as like there's no, like, right outside is, you know, fresh air. Like, I don't think that he says any of that. It's just like, then this door is going to lock forever. So, like, I just took it to mean that but it would be kind of funny if they did it

and then it was just like another darkened basement hallway or something and this is when Xavier goes full villain because the note is for him it's like oh Xavier you're a drug dealer aren't you like to have people root around through drugs now you're gonna have to do that big guy

get in this this needle pit go find the there's a vaccine in there and I'm seeing this and I'm like oh man if there's one of those that's not broken. I am injecting air into myself. And I am fucking out. I'm goodbye fellas and ladies. I'm on

a fat straight home. If it's drugs, right? If it's like heroin or something, just pump yourself full of it. Exactly. Two or three of those will get you where you want to be. Oh, just like a pleasant OD. Yeah. If one of those liquids looks like, the darker the better, just injected right into yourself. I mean, this is the most... It does look like

they're empty, though. This is the most visceral and memorable part of the film that, you know, does make your skin crawl it's what you're supposed to get out of these movies. And you know what's interesting? I guess. It's, I guess so. I mean, insofar as like, you know, it really is a, it's a great reason.

I mean, it's great reason. It's a reason to see shit in theaters when you have the like full effect movie theater, Plato's Cave situation. Because honestly, when this was on right, like last night, you know, I was just streaming it on Amazon or Apple or whatever. I was like, yeah, all right, fuck it. And I just looked down at my iPad until it was

oh, you know what I mean? I was just like, I have no interest in watching this woman suffer like this. Well, it's not even, it's like the fact that like it's not just like it would be one thing if you did that and your whole like the sound design was everything like was clinking and like that was the focus. But there's a big chugging score going on as well.

That's overwhelming any sensory delights you might have. from like being creeped out by this and like it does just become about suffering like all of these deaths are just about like oh look how much they're suffering it's right and by the way Xavier throws Amanda Shawnee Smith into the needle thing um which is I think this was I think this happened in an episode of Becker as well okay Becker bomb oh Becker fucking tossed uh the singer of Hepcat there uh into a needle pit at one point yeah you know he's a twisted doctor budging just like our friend here jigsaw the funniest piece of trivia iMdb trivia so the needles

were obviously all fake i think they're made out of like they're like they're like foam tips or some crazy thing but and like they fill this up and there's like 2,000 of them in this pit to make this shot work uh the scene work rather and then somehow a couple of real needles accidentally fell in the in that pit and they had to like shut down production to like find them within this single who's bringing real needles to this thing can we fucking not uh jerry when you were filling the needle pit did you take the needles that were in that black bag in my gym bag back in the lock oh you know what this is going to take eight hours to fix it's just like our real it's it's the murder bullets and fake bullet situation again don't bring the murder bullets to the set guys all right all right all right

it was me okay i like recreationally to take my own blood that's my it's my little hobby I'm sorry okay sorry I'm the bad guy I mean this is when Xavier throws her to the pit making himself the full on villain of this movie slash the movie what did you call this part of the movie Eric

oh shit the needle pit the the house that they're in the whole time oh I called it a boring chamber and they're all stuck in this boring chamber I think that was the title of the screenplay before they changed it to saw it. That's why he couldn't fucking sell it. He kept calling his movie Boring Chamber.

It is really dull. I mean, the whole thing about going through the needles, you know, yes, I guess it's visceral on some level. You're having a reaction to seeing this disgusting filth. And she finds the fucking key, and it's like a second too late. And they can't open the door. Well, and nobody points out the fact that this is,

I mean, she finds it with enough time, and it would have worked except, that idiot Xavier drops the key on the floor. Yeah, dude. He totally fucks it up. Well, at this point, you've got to kill Xavier. First of all, it's clear that he is out, not only just out for himself, but like, the other guy, Jonas is like, you know, hey, we got to work together, blah, blah, blah.

This is the guy, he's also in speed and speed too, by the way. You've seen him in a bunch. But, like, you know, he's like trying to be the nice guy here. At this point, you have to realize, okay, this guy's not on our team. We've got to kill him because he's going to throw us all into the needle pit. I don't need that shit. right no absolutely not and he's a big hulking dude you got to you got to gang up on him early it didn't even click to me until you said that steve but he's also the the guy who gets killed

that sets off everything in strange days yes oh jericho something yeah jericho one yeah he's a character he's been around for a long time wait a second i had to look it up because i didn't remember he's fucking jaguar guy in speed yeah he's got the dreads yeah yeah yeah and then he's like on vacation or whatever in the second movie and he is boat gets fucking or does he the anchor falls on his car something something it's silly i did not recognize him from those movies that's fucking great and um eric who's the kid uh donnie walberg's kid is the only one out of all these people to help this woman in a pile of needles get out which is kind of nasty uh but you know he's like the good guy and he's like oh amanda you okay oh gosh oh jeez

the son is michael and and uh donnie walberg is eric oh that's right Sorry, I keep getting that mixed up. So they start trying to figure out, because Jigsaw in his first tape said something about, like, you know, you all have something in common or whatever. And they start trying to piece together that the commonality might be that they've all done time. And then that's when I think it's like, because Jonas is like, yeah, I did time. Xavier definitely did time. You know, and he's like, what about you, kid? And this little weiner's like, no.

And there's this other woman, I think Addison, the line is like, the only. She's a prostitute, I guess, or an ex-prostitute, possibly, and something, something. The only, the only door you ever opened is between your legs is a line in this film. Wait, what? That's a lot in the film. That's a lot in the film. That is a crazy line, because that, like, assumes she lives outdoors or something. Yeah, I mean, look, she's got to open doors all the time.

Yeah. She's shitting in her living room? There is a, there is a, a bunch of beaded curtains in her house, kind of a situation. How did you find out about my tent? If IMDB Tribune Trivia is to be believed, that line was one of several that the actor playing Xavier, like, improvised. Nice. And they chose that one. I think the trivia says because it was the one that was like the least horrible and also funny or something like that. We're going to be honest. It was the only one that wasn't anti-Semitic. We kept saying she's not even Jewish.

what are you talking about, but he kept doing it. It was a morass. He just kept screaming. I'm just riffing. This is what we used to do with the groundlings. I mean, there's literally another whole movie just of his scenes being anti-Semitic. So this is where Xavier goes back into the main room

and he goes down to the corpse of Fat Dave Matthews there, Gus, and he finds the number and he realizes like what's going on And then, like, Jonas comes in vomiting blood because they're all, like, getting weaker and sicker as the gas keeps killing them. And then out of nowhere, I guess Jonas just, like, wrangles all of this strength. And they have this insane fight in the middle of this movie. And it's kind of a great fight. Yeah.

How did they get the evil dead bat with the nails at it or whatever? That was, it was in the house the whole time. And that's what Jonas uses or Xavier uses to, like, try to break the door down and sit. He's had this most syslack nail bat, like the whole movie. There's two things that I love in this world. Freshman philosophy and ECW. ECW. Oh, don't go in that room.

There's a bunch of barbed wire with gunpowder on it. ECW. ECW. Oh, yeah. We're going to have a ladder match to find the key in this one. Uh-oh. The latter's electrified. ECW.

ECW. ECW. ECW. Oh. Man, so many late nights watching those like ECW reruns that they'd put on, like, I believe

it maybe aired on USA or possibly even E entertainment television. It was somewhere. It was like an offshoot of the World Wrestling Federation. It was another. It was another. They, World, WWE or whatever,

eventually bought it, I think. but it was at one time extreme championship wrestling it was its own thing a lot of like you know dudes from japan were involved a lot of like like higher level pro washouts kind of came in that way no i i i was aware of it because like a lot of my friends who wore more cargo shorts than i did were very into it i mean i wore some cargo shorts sure but they were a lot of cargo shorts but I was always like vaguely aware but never like sat down and watched an actual pay-per-view I knew who the wrestlers were

especially as they came with the WWE but I never got into it like Taz I think was a dude that came from Rob Van Dam as well RVD they called him RVD that's right yeah I mean and it was just a weird like Eric you would watch it they would just air these matches late at night and it was kind of like like the craziest shit

that Mick Foley ever did that was this entire organization's thesis It was just all these extreme. Yeah. You get in a hit with a, hitting the head of the chair with it, barbed wire on it. That's kind of what we're doing. That's, you know. And it's definitely real.

I kind of think it would have always been funny if the EC, I wanted every ECW match to end with them getting a hot meal. Like, even if it was just for show. Like, I know they're not going hungry. But like, I just want them to sit down and have like, you know, meatloaf, mashed potatoes, peas. A nice little salad. Totally. Hey, Tess. Do you eat today, buddy?

You're hungry? We're going to get your hot meal. You don't have to jump off that cage. I mean, that's fucking better than the way Vince McMahon treats these people. That's true, man. They're fucking dog pellets and fucking great alcohol. And no health insurance. But yeah.

God damn, that whole fucking family is disgusting. Top to bottom. Retched. He, Xavier grabs the ECW bat and puts it into Jonas. his head, which kind of rules. It's a kill, for sure. It totally rules, but you're right, though, Steve.

It does just feel like such a leftover from what this script was originally. Because to see someone else in a saw movie murder someone and it's not through a crazy contraption, I was like, this feels all wrong, all wrong. Because Xavier's the villain now and he's running around with this bat trying to kill people. I'm like, this is a slasher movie. You're right. This is the climax of boring. chamber the script they wrote first

that became Saw 2 you'll never wake up from the boring chamber it's like a John Grisham book but even worse the boring chamber your mind will idle right out of your skull

at the boring chamber oh man so like the young woman who's on 7th Heaven you know she starts eating shit because she's like choking to death or whatever and she looks up again it's another weird

like someone's staring at the ceiling and noticing something and she's like oh X marks the spot and it's a picture frame where the glass is like conveniently broken into an X I would really love to know how he did that so accurately but then they you know they flip over the

picture frame and there's a thing tape too it's like it's a it's a picture and it just says dad and son or whatever and you flip it over, it is the absolute worst Photoshop emotion picture has ever put forth to scream of Donnie Wahlberg and this kid outside the garden?

Like, dude, just get them, take a day off and take a picture of these two actors together. You could do it. And you know they did do it because there's like a scene, I don't know if it's later or before, where they like cut two black and white pictures of Donnie Wahlberg and this kid,

like as it's supposed to be memories, but it was clearly done, like outside. of their trailer on a lunch break because all you have to do like you could get this done on that dock scene where he's screaming at him at the beginning of the movie it's like all right here's a different shirt for you

yeah here's a different shirt for you stand on the water here's hold these two fucking fishing poles boom fishing trip photograph exactly now I just realized I looked at IMDB I think I said his name the kid's name was Michael earlier it's Daniel apparently apologies

I mean I just want to stop a tweet and also like there's nothing no personality to this character he doesn't exist you don't have to give him any name and not into the vapor vapor person but he's the most important character of the movie and you're both right there's nothing here but he should be the because he's like the only thing is like he's kind of nice inside the boring chamber helping out Amanda who's going through trouble like that which is to his benefit but I mean like again it's not like yeah I just got it with the wrong crowd I was

I'm in a gang see that would be some any attribute you know like make it like Wahlberg is like oh, you know, he's got a football scholarship, he's going to go, you know, make him love his son in some way, make him say something about him. Or like, yeah, we're like, oh, you know, dad,

I only started doing crime to get your attention, blah, blah, blah, you're too busy banging Dean of Meyer, whatever. Yeah, I started doing crime because it's the only way I could visit you at work. But I don't think that like fits with what the, even the first movie, well, like, you need almost, I don't think there should be any nice people

in a saw movie. It should all be detestable people who are getting theirs or like barely like maybe they sort of win you over by the end of the movie but like these are like it's a horror show. You're watching people suffer. It should be terrible people for the most part.

Eric, by the way, you're not crazy. There is a Michael in this movie. That's the name of the snitch from the beginning. Michael. So meanwhile, Donnie Wahlberg is getting fed up with this nonsense but so like now amanda and like knows that he's the son of the cop and she's like trying to protect him sort of i guess and i think addison finds out that he's

the son of the cop and she gets she kind of runs away from them is the idea she's she's kind of like with fuck y'all um out of here whatever but then they're like i i don't remember if someone shows it to him or he finds i think he finds it himself like on the floor or something Xavier sees it and starts losing his mind. Now the whole thing, if we haven't said it, Donnie Walberg has put all of these people away to prison by planting evidence on them and being crooked. And now it's like, now, you know, that dude that did that to you,

here's his son. So Xavier starts very Jack Nicholson-y here, like chasing them through the hallways of this house. Which I need some line about, I was trying to, you know, that's the way I wanted to get a promotion or blah, blah, blah, they all deserved it. Everybody's guilty. like something about the philosophy of Donnie Wahlberg

why he's a crooked cop. Yep. It's just it's nothing and then like you know similarly like with Chris what you were pointing out with like you know loving the son and whatever all he does is just keep yelling like of course I love my son of course I love my son and at some point you're like I think really though at the root of all this dude like you just want to get that kid out of that house alive so you don't have to hear it from this X one. Yeah it's to stick it to

Marcy for sure. That's the whole... See, I fucking saved him. You're welcome. You fucking got her son in a boring chamber, you piece of shit. I can't believe...

Of course. Oh, of course. And he's stuck with all the people you fucked up with. And of course a serial killer got a fucking son, you piece of shit. Dude, it would be awesome

if Lorraine Brocko was in this movie. Oh, your new girlfriend is there. What did our son suffer? You piece of shit. Oh, hello there, detective. There's a jigsaw in your building. Four F, he wants to play a game. You better be vaccinated my kid, you piece of shit.

I know you're out there with that Jenny McCarthy. You better be vaccinated in our kid, you piece of shit. See that Jenny McCarthy up there in the window? Jenny McCarthy is up there in the window not vaccinating my kid. You see that up in the window? That's not a vaccine with it. But this, Donnie Wahlberg is sick

of it. There's this other cop who's not Dina Meyer. Dina Meyer is like, hey, let's do what Jigsaw says. That's the way we get out of these things. This other cop is like, no, we need some good old fashioned police work, wink, wink, this is when Donnie Wahlberg goes in there and just starts beating the overloving shit at a Tobin Bell. And it's pretty fucking.

it's the best scene of the movie man just watching this old dude gets ass kicked like he's like knocking over his IV and start kicking him it's like it's a real it's a real walberger move man yeah fucking runs in the family man uh and like so that delicious scene happens and then like it it i feel like it takes a really long time for this movie to get back to a saw kill i mean there there's i think maybe maybe it's addison or someone gets like the the wrist this is crazy Yes, the razor box happens right here and it's kind of an interesting thing

because she's in this room away from everybody else she gets her hands caught in it and then like Xavier comes in behind her and it's it's truthfully a pretty creepy moment because you're like alright Xavier

what's this guy gonna fucking do you know this woman is stuck here like this and he just sort of like starts touching her hair and you're like uh-uh-ah and then it's just to see her neck what the number is. And then he just fucking leaves her in that room. I would start screaming. You kill me, you pussy!

You kill me. We should say that she puts both of her arms into these slots inside of a box. A box has a needle in it, which we assume as an antidote. But it like locks from the inside and there's like razors in them kind of a thing. We almost get into a Gerald's game situation, but I didn't pass out. So we didn't go full Gerald's game here. did you seriously pass out watching Gerald's game? No, no, but just like that

that scene is extreme. Because I came real close. Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's like, oh boy. That movie's like not good, but it's not bad. Exactly. It's in the middle. I keep on trying to watch it and every time I have to stop because I'm so bored. It's boring. There's one insane

like incredibly memorable scene, which I will not spoil here, which almost made me pass out. I will someday get to it, but this is like the third time now. I've tried to watch this fucking movie. Cabin, you know, I, on our Texas Chainsaw Masker 2 episode, you mentioned that you watched the first 15 minutes of Veratica and had to turn it off. I got to like 26 minutes, so beat you. Good on you.

Good on you. But I think if you could take that same approach to Gerald's game, that shit happens like and not at the end of the movie. No, it's like 40-ish minutes because a lot of all. stuff that happens at the end. That's one of the problems of the movie, but yeah. Yeah, like turning into a courtroom drama. Yeah, absolutely. Bit of an issue. It's a stupid fucking thing.

Okay, now I'm in. There is a weird thing in this razor box scene though where like I think instead of doing the Gerald's game move, they just sort of like show her kind of trying to psych herself into pulling her hands back through these razors. But what

they wind up doing is putting all of these like 1990s music video filters all over this shit. Dumb move. It just makes no, like she's just screaming and all these filters are there and it just because it's... Those filters aren't anywhere

else in this movie. Because it's just a very slow death so like they can't like show you the end moment at all. And the weird thing, I mean like, meanwhile Xavier is running around getting all these numbers. He finds Beverly Mitchell is the girl from 7th Heavens. Yes.

and he looks at her number at this point I really need a pad and pen or maybe I'm cutting the numbers into my arm because it's a fucking extreme sub-movie but I'm not I'm not remembering like all right

or at least he should be saying it the whole time like 10 17 9 14 9 10 17 14 9 yep 10 17 14 I was thinking the whole I was thinking the same thing dude because he just glances at these numbers like 11 got it

I feel like absolutely not also you're dying you're in the middle of also dying so yeah I want to get a pad pen or something. Well, the most egregious is how he finds out his own number. Oh, fuck off. Yeah, we'll get to that. He beats the shit out. Meanwhile, Donnie Walbrook beats shit out of Jigsaw. He's like, all right, I'll take you the house. Just you though. Nobody else. And like, Dina Meyer's like, oh, cool, let's just throw our case in the garbage. Awesome. Also, like,

you agree to that. And then all the other cops trail you anyway. Exactly. That's how that's what should have happened. And this is, it's a bullshit like, because like jigsaw has created this room where like it's basically his little office and whatever and you don't get where it's actually situated until this moment i thought it's kind of an interesting detail that he's made this whole office area inside a freight elevator oh yeah and so he makes donnie walberg like press this button and the freight elevator goes to so the whole office carrying the two of them just drops through the floor and like they're all all the rest of the cops are like wait what the fuck just happened make no mistake, Jigsaw lives kind of like

a ninja turtle. That's kind of what he's Let's go down to the old subway station. There's an abandoned subway car down there that, yep, I live in. It's me four mutated teenage turtles and some really hairy old guy. Listen, call

30 minutes before you get here with my pizza, because I have to get certain levels of my home to get to you to get the pizza. Jigsaw, I've given you unlimited razors. Listen, I'm the one of, I made the Shredder costume and that guy never fucking uses it. That is something that would be designed by Jigsaw, right?

Shredder's costume, absolutely. Yeah. You got enough razors on this Shreddy? Shreddy. Ready for Shreddy. Oh my God, we just figured it out. Jigsaw is actually rock steady, right? Or no, he's Bebop.

He's got the pig head. Oh, he's definitely Bebop. B him up. Yeah, no. He's definitely not rock steady dude because he is not a Vietnam veteran. For sure. Look, I made all these prototypes of the crang body, but none of the brains that I take from the corpses work. They don't start talking or nothing. So they're like, it's so, Donnie and Jigsaw are in this van and they're driving. Maybe it's the turtle van.

I just said, Donnie. Yeah. Man, I want to watch Ninja eternal movies now. Totally. You know, so you know, Jigsaw's like, all right, yeah, you're going to take a right here. Careful, you got someone in your blind spot. And it's hilarious. He's giving this dude directions, and like he's still coming down from like

getting the shit beat out of him, which is hilarious. Anybody hear the worst reference to this? Oh, you could do it because you've seen the movie and I haven't. You just, you took the words right out of my mouth, Steve. It's the dumbest reference. Completely unnecessary. Like when they get close enough to the play, like they're on the street

where the building is or whatever and he's like yeah all right just drive down this way yeah it's the last house on the left oh man just fucking shove it shove it somewhere i don't even care just get it out of my face we'll get it to my car i call her christine i'm doing this all on april fool's day oh that's weird april's day also somehow is friday the 13th maybe huh I know that's actually impossible. Really, April 1st, Ronnie the 13th. Shut up, it works. Just shut up.

It's an Albany Holiday. It's an Albany holiday. You know, the recycling pickup on my street is a nightmare on Elm Street. Oh, man. Garbage Day. Yeah. Yeah, oh, definitely. Oh, you know what?

I'm pretty sure this is a no. But, Cabin, can you confirm none of these movies take place at Christmas? because that's a great idea. I don't believe so. Because you could, here's the thing. They should have done these happening on different holidays because it's like holiday themed puzzle houses and whatever.

Go, fuck, that would be great. Go all the way. Like, go like, oh, you know, do a Labor Day one. Go all the, go all the way out. Labor Day. Yeah, do you get me some like rural jigsaw. Give me like a corn maze. Oh, I like that. Again, another thing that you could just break the

wall down and fucking get out of this. you like apple picking do you i mean we're never going to see this fucking chris rock movie so who knows what's going to happen next to fuck god damn it dude i'll tell you in i was you know because after i finished this movie i did a little bit of a dive into the franchise wikipedia pages and was looking up spiral and man like we are recording this episode october the 21st 2020 that movie was supposed to come out in fucking may yep and now it's next year it's vod just fucking do it's it guys. Exactly, dude. Like, there's been diminishing returns

on these saw movies. Like, I don't know. I don't think that this would be some massive box office gangbusters. You're going to lose money anywhere. You're bleeding money day by day. Just fucking do something. Do you want to release it now? How do you like that bleeding money every day?

Looks like I got you in my trap. What company says? Twisted picture. The only way you're going to be able to watch my new movie. is to be in mortal danger in a movie theater. Yeah, totally. Do you want to play a game?

Try to fucking wear a mask and drink soda at the same time, idiot. As you pass them, each of the other audience members will randomly cough. Is that your end or not? Is it worth it? Yeah. By the way, Tom Cruise, kind of a dick. Hey, how bad do you want to see? tenant. Apparently not that

bad. Not many of you cared. You know, the thing that's so dumb about this drive, too, it's like Donnie Wahlberg, man, like, why do you think he's going to fucking lead you right to this kid? Exactly. You just beat the shit out of this guy. He breaks his fingers too, which is awesome, by the way. That is a great, I have to hand it to Tobin Bell. The scream when he fucking breaks Tobin Bell's finger is quite exquisite. you think that was part of his master plan or is like oh that sucks shit oh i didn't see that coming

ow hey ow also he's like a frail cancer patient dude like in the final days like it must have been pretty easy to break that shit man not cool they call me mr glass i actually never could i remember i do i've never killed anybody so maybe chill out with the finger breaking um so walberg like gets to the house he's like oh by the way Donnie Walberg, here's this key that you'll need to get in. Is there anything else you need? Like, it's so dumb that he doesn't suspect anything here.

After they leave, tech support finally shows up and cracks. In two minutes, they're like, ah, yeah, it's 1-29 Mercer Street, whatever it is. Oh, right, because the whole time, what's the actresses named, Dina Mayer? Yeah, DeNemeyer, yeah. She's like, you know, we need to figure out, like,

the source of this video feed, fucking idiot squad or Geek Squad. We finally got back, God, the Chief's going to be working on a laptop for a couple of weeks after his way. Oh, God. Oh, he is. He is not going to have access to work email.

Oh, my stars. Sorry about the sweat stains and the smell. What are you got here? What a fucking day. Oh, no, the jigsaw case. Got it. What a fucking day. Oh, whose kid?

That asshole? I would have taken the day off. How much? Hey, Lou, we could have stopped at Wendy's after all. It's assholes, kid. Oh, yeah. How much you would have been? He probably in the fucking safe.

I mean that's the other I mean we'll get there but who boy so they whatever they fucking find that under the safe in the room that they were first all waking up in whoops there's another trap door here

they open it up we're getting some tunnels under this house thing they're trying to escape what you would call it Xavier's gone full on Jason Vorhe's here he's trying to rip through the door they both know they're going to get it but also like you could if the two of you get this guy you can get this guy not with this little

fucking weiner kid man this kid sucks yeah that's a good point he's not doing shit a think of big Xavier swings at him he just goes through him yeah that's like an arm just vapor again like separates uh and also uh spoiler alert amanda's crooked yeah so yeah they did they've got in these tunnels i love the bargain are we at the point where they where he's getting the numbers yeah or yeah we can't was there something else No, no, no, no. Not at all. Saw 2. Yeah, no, we actually, we, I think maybe even got past it. So go ahead and talk about this, though, because it's fucking ridiculous.

What it's crazy to is because, like, he's like, I need your numbers, right? So he's going to kill both of them. And Shawnee Smith's big, like, thing is like, well, who's going to tell you your number? And he decides, oh, I'm such a big man that I can't ever work cooperatively. so I'm going to take out this knife and cut my number off the back of my neck and by the way I don't even know how he gets it right I would I assume if I tried this I'd cut right through the number yep and I wouldn't know what it was or you would just like completely miss it like we are right at this point because what happens is the tunnels lead them to

the bathroom from the first movie cool and then this is where the skin things happen because she says you know how are you going to get your own number if I don't tell you and he starts cutting his flesh off and he gets it and he's like got it and puts it in his pocket. Is this a six or a nine? Fuck. Jigsaw you bastard

you got to put the little line underneath sorry no which is which. And then uh-oh, this kid stands up. The only brave thing this kid does in the movie stands up and cuts Xavier's throat with a saw. I mean it's the titular saw from the first

movie. It's got to be. Yeah. No, because that is the hilarious thing is when they walk into this bathroom, it's the fucking corpses from Lee Wannel's character and Michael Emerson's character just rotting on the floor. So this dude starts choking. And it's kind of hilarious because, like, this dude went through the painful trouble of cutting flesh off the back of his neck and then, like, had to experience the feeling of that, the terror of that, the pain of that, and then just gets murdered immediately. It's kind of great. Fitting end. Fitting end. And meanwhile, so Donnie Walberg is going all through the house. He finds all these dead bodies. He finds the picture.

He's like, oh, my God, I'm in a saw a movie. Meanwhile, the SWAT team is like 10 steps behind also gets to the house. And they're like, nobody's here, but nobody's here. And you're like, what is going on? Oh, my gosh, what's going on in this Saw movie? Hey, I'm starting to get confused. And then it turns out they pull. There's another table.

with computer monitors on it. That's also covered up by his sheet. I don't know why jigsaw is so concerned with dust. And they pull the shit off and it's, uh-oh, this wasn't a live feed at all. This is all pre-recorded. Bam, bum, ba. And then. Like, John Kramer in this place where all of his torture stuff is, he's not, you know,

he doesn't care about keeping up, but I bet you at his house. He still has plastic on his couch. Oh, yeah, for sure. He's got a many protectors. You know, he's very concerned about upkeep. Yeah, I don't bring my work home with me. I live a very clean personal life. So, yeah, it's not a live feed.

Walberg is way too late. He winds up getting to this bathroom, sees someone in the famous bathtub, and he just keeps saying Daniel repeatedly until the fucking pig person sits up and stabs him. Yeah, he gives him with a needle, right? She locks him out, I think. Yes, yeah, sorry, yeah, stabbed with a hypodermic.

So, like, he's, like, getting weak, and she locks him up with chains very similar to the first movie. And now we're doing the whole, it's a twist, so we've got to go through the whole fucking thing for you. Just having to rewatch this entire movie, essentially, and fast forward is very annoying. And basically, jigsaw is just like, if you sit here, your son will be unharmed. And as he says that, you see that the safe right next to them opens up and the sun was in there the whole time with, like, an oxygen tank in there. so he could survive, so the kid's okay. A, have the balls to kill this kid. Absolutely.

Yeah, fuck it. If we're fucking shoving ladies into hyperdermic needles, a 16-year-old boy can eat shit. How about that? Exactly, dude. Or it would be great. I don't even know how this would happen, but it just opens in its little skeleton.

I like this idea. Well, yeah, like Final Destination 2 just comes out and just kills that kid. Smooches that kid. Oh, that's right. A little smushy. They up the ante. Oh, good old smushy.

Mr. Twisted Saw can't do it. The Final Destination game. Oh, he's a good boy. He's a little white kid. You can't kill a little white kid. Oh, no. I mean, these kids got such a fucking punchable face, too. This is a great point because, like, the Saw movies are like,

we're so extreme and dirty. Isn't that crazy? But Final Destination movies really beat the fuck out of this movie. We're, absolutely. We're twisted and everything, but we don't want to hurt Daddy's little pressure. No, you don't want to do that. That would be wrong. to hurt the daddies.

And it's just like, it's this insane, like, transfer of villain power here where she's just like, hello, Eric, you probably don't even remember me. And it's like she was a drug addict, but then he planted drugs on her, and she went away. And then Jigsaw saved her life and yada yada. And I can't speak to Becker, but I can say this is well out of her range as an actress. Becker Bob. Beckerbom. She's fine in those stuff, but not here.

By the way, I just want the Beckerbaum to be Ted dance, like a clip of Ted dance and saying, yeah, that's right. Well, the other thing that's just so weird, and I don't know, because of course with something like this, the cast didn't get the last like 25 pages of the script, they shot five endings, all that stuff. But like when you see her standing in the, doorway and Donnie Walberg is now chained to the bathroom and, you know, whatever.

She has a completely different haircut. Oh, an absolutely different hair. Because most of the movie, she's got a horrible haircut. It's just, it's this weird, like, teased out. It looks like she got fucking electrocuted on her way in. And she's just got this weird sort of like pixie-ish, like, bowl cut. She almost looks like Agnes Varda. Got a weird, like, anime.

She kind of looks like an anime character before. Yes. yes yeah definitely dude she's playing around some Pokemon oh we better not insult it then but and then you know she does the same like game over and closes the door on and the last lines of this movie because it's a good movie is Donnie Wahlberg saying you bitch

you bitch I'll get you you bitch or whatever it's like he calls her a bitch like 40 times he's just the last scene is just him screaming you fucking bitch over and over again those were his wedding vows out of You know, Donnie's a hell of an improviser, and he improvised the whole ending to this movie. We did 38 takes, and that was the only one that wasn't anti-Semitic. And it's just like, he's screaming fucking bitch, and then it's just like,

da-na-na-na-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-n-n-n-n-d. Donnie, take that again. Just a really quick question, though. What is it with your family and the Vietnamese? What was that about? What a tyrant. My God, your whole family's a guy. against to my kids. They know what they did.

It's lucky we're making this movie in 2005 or whatever the fuck and we don't really have phones that can film set freakouts. I should admit this now because I forget if I ever said it before on air. You got beef with the Vietnamese? No, I do not. I do not. I love their food. You're a Fah fan? I am. Love it. But Donnie Walberg

scratched my dog's head. Oh, wow. Also, Jen. Oh, right. You were on like a plane with them one time? I was on a plane with them and was this Epstein's plane? It was not on Epstein's plane. I was never invited. Sadly, I never got the invite. Okay. But

so he was the first class of course with Jenny McCarthy and like one of the one of the attendants was just like glued to him the whole time. It was just you want to see my blue blood's tattoo? He kept on asking about blue bloods and like if Tom Selleck is nice.

And so I get off this plane and I'm in the bathroom and I come out and there is Jenna McCarthy and fucking Donnie Walberg scratching my dog's head as my wife is waiting for me to get out of here. You should have put your finger in his chest and said, what are you doing to my dog? Hey, hey, hey, pervert. Hey, are you trying to take the vaccinations away from my dog? Hey, pervert. You try to hang tough or what? yeah that's the end of the movie Chunky new metal let's get let's get

saw da da na na na na da da da da na da da na da da da na na na saw twisted pictures I feel like you know what you're making this saw too we're having a nice extreme twisted time and everything

why don't we end with a little bit of a blooper reel huh yeah that'd be fun or at least footage of them looking for the real needles inside the fake needle cave go full lethal weapon four where it's like a scrapbook and why can't we be friends is playing in the background absolutely but it's fucking horrendous saw too so it's that horrendous smashmouth

cover the color the color the color of you can do matter to me yeah man fucking trash heap oh god damn it and I mean here's the dumbest question of the night would anybody recommend this movie oh not in your life um it is I mean it's This is my second saw film that I've seen because I saw the first one and I really hated it and I was out immediately and I never bothered. But that one is so much better than this one. It's got artistic merit at least.

It's actually made by somebody that went on to make pretty great movies. And for that, it's sort of like historically interesting even though I never need to see it again. Yada, yada, yada. It's a piece of shit and it's mean and stupid. And it really thinks this twist makes the whole movie work and it really does not.

yeah absolutely uh eric ciscay uh obviously it's a no for me i just my biggest problem with it and you know i didn't go into the saw verse either but this movie's just boring it's just dull and the kills are dull and boring like i the needle pit is just stupid i just don't this franchise doesn't connect with me if it connects with you awesome Stabs Absolutely not As I said I don't like any of these movies

The first one Had some sense of invention I give it that Like all the little traps Are pretty interesting This one You use like two of them That you've already used before

And like one kind of The needle pit is kind of interesting I guess Even though it's not a trap But yeah Like I just kind of missed that Like there's no sense of like Ooh this this

This absolutely weird complex system I built to like kill someone. It's like, oh yeah, this thing's going to slice you, this thing's going to blow up. Who cares? Yeah. I mean, I'm in line with all of you guys. This franchise never did it for me. The thing that I mean, the third movie, I sort of remember the ending to, because I tried at one point because like catching all of a franchise is always kind of like a fascinating challenge for me. It's why I've seen all of those dreadful hellraisers sequels like just dreadful dreadful shit but like i didn't get through all of these like i think when i was watching them the only one that hadn't come out yet was like saw 3d or something so there's

at least like six of them i think i got sort of through four and it was like a green out and it's fine but my question cabin is do all of them end with like and now here's the twist that sort of like makes the whole movie not make any sense they do all have twists as i remember it but i can't like they're all very also to eric's point they're all very boring uh the one where you find out more about john kramer is incredibly boring and it takes forever to get to the point um right because it's just him and his wife and they're in court and they're arguing about the kids they're versuscing each other see at least with a slasher you can run away there's a more open environment but it's just boring when you're already caught yes i agree with that um so yeah it's it's a big uh big

no all around gang but we had a fun time talking about it we had a fun time talking through all of the spook tucular uh it was a complete and total blast if you want more spook tucular action if you can't get enough of us talking about our movies i'm sorry yeah but yeah guys can we get one more going two what's that two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two two excellent excellent we don't want to go out without that thank you very much uh What is the two we have on Patreon, our bonus episode for the month? That is an episode on the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Part 2. Which is a recommend, by the way.

It's a total recommend. It's out now. We got that going. We got animation damnation. It's The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown, that depressing piece of cinema. That's right. We got that going. We got a commentary track on Evil Dead 2, which is awesome.

And Eric's done some really cool YouTube clips. to sync up to that that's that gives you a little taste of what you're missing yeah check out a preview on our youtube channel youtube.com slash we hate movies and you all find oodles of goodness over there like our previous mailbag episodes that are video absolutely they're all there check out all of that stuff uh and if you you missed it uh last week we did the october mailbag live on the air on youtube and on twitch and on twitter uh but you can still find it just go to our you YouTube channel and check that out. You know,

if you missed our letter reading live on the air, there it is. The audio version of that sometime before the live November mailbag. We'll get that to you. But so it has been an excellent spookatucular. I have to say, I think

gimmicky spooktaculars, maybe the way to go for a while. We'll see what we can come up with next year. But speaking of gimmicky shit, as always here on We Hate Movies, next Tuesday, There's already another episode ready to rock and roll for you. We kick off November. Steve Sadek, you want to give a little preview of what the hell we're doing?

We're having a little bit of an election, some fun on election day, because that's the only fun you'll ever have. As your asshole is as tight as a drum, that entire day, you might have some fun listening to my fellow Americans because we got a theme month. And what is the theme month, everybody? So somebody else, I don't want to take the thing. It's brims giving. It's Brim's giving. We're doing all, in the honor of our fallen friend, Wilford Brimley, all month dedicated to movies with Wilford Brimley in them. Oh, yeah.

So what is, what is next week's episode again? My fellow Americans. Did I miss that part? That is right. No, I just, you didn't miss anything else. If you said it, I totally forgot. And then when you said it again, I was like, that's right. He already said it.

Gotcha. Okay. Have another beer, you fucking lush. Yeah, my fellow Americans. movie that I will say I've seen no less than 10 times. Wow. Right there. Anybody, anybody first time in my fellow Americans? That'll be me tomorrow. Oh, really? No, I've seen it before. And I've got to say, scarier than saw two. Yeah, oh, most definitely, dude. It's a real dead for noon terror

fest, that's for sure. So the spookacular has been a lot of fun. We'll see this theme song next year, of course. Always hate to put it to bed, so you'll get it one more time here in just a few seconds, but until next week with my fellow Americans. I'm Andrew Jupin. Stephen Sadek. Eric Siska. Chris Cabin. Take it easy. We all go a little mad sometimes. You know, it's Halloween. I guess everyone's a dash on.

I'm a good scare. Sometimes. That is better. That is better. Zombies have entered the building. They're at the door. They're coming in. It is time to keep your appointment. Does it come back?

They're coming to get you, Barbara. They're going to get you, Barbara. He's sick for Foxy. You've seen one too many. Now, sit! Don't you blame the movies? Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos. More creative! More creative!

What's the fucking loser in the bag? There's an excellent day. There's an excellent day. for an exorcist. An excellent day for an exorcist. That was a HeadGum podcast.