We Hate Movies - S13 Ep641: Thief (with Jamelle Bouie)

Episode Date: November 8, 2022

On this week’s WLM episode, the gang welcomes back friend of the show, New York Times columnist and co-host of the Unclear and Present Danger podcast, Jamelle Bouie to chat about the fantastic crime drama, Thief! Does anyone else put process on screen like this, and is it even half as interesting as when Michael Mann does it? How incredible are Jim Belushi’s Hawaiian shirts in this movie? And does this film contain the best shotgun death in all of cinema? PLUS: How many real-life deadbeats can YOU count in the background? Thief stars James Caan, Tuesday Weld, Robert Prosky, James Belushi, Tom Signorelli, Dennis Farina, John Santucci, and Willie Nelson as Okla; directed by Michael Mann. Catch the guys on the road now—next stop Denver! Tickets on sale now! Check out the WHM Merch Store -- featuring new Crispy Critters, MINGO!, WHAT IF Donna? & Mortal Kombat designs! Advertise on We Hate Movies via Gumball.fm   Unlock Exclusive Content!: http://www.patreon.com/wehatemovies See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

this week on the program. Light up your blow torches and crank up that tangerine dream because on this episode we're talking about thief. I'm Andrew Jupin. Stephen Sadek. Eric Siska. Chris Cabin. Jamel Bowie. And we love movies. Hello, everyone. Welcome to We Love Movies. Thank you for tuning in. As always, that's right, November's We Love Movies Month rolls on as we welcome back, friend of the show, New York Times opinion columnists, and of course, the host of Unclear and, of course, the host of Unclear and present. or the co-host, I should say. Mr. Jamal Bowie back on the show. Welcome back, friend. Hello, thank you for having me.

I just ate an Oreo, so I apologize. Oh, people love mouth stuff. Should I chew directly into the microphone? Oh, yeah. You should. Oh, yeah. Definitely. That'll be working for someone.

We're here today to talk, of course, about Michael Mann's feature theatrical debut, uh, thief from 1980. what a what a debut just to get right into it what a goddamn debut yeah i mean the way this guy directs movies his first name should be his first name should be super my god damn i budgeted that one it wasn't going to be good anyway though sure but on paper it was like succinct mike mich michael superman so the michael the super is the middle name sorry oh i see okay clear that up speaking of superman i was just remembering uh was looking at the james con

on's Wikipedia there and the fact that anyone considered James Kahn for Superman in 78, it's just like and his thing was like, I didn't want to wear the damn cape, which is such an amazing that would have worked if Superman had like gone to the

Playboy Mansion and like been hanging out there for a little bit like then I can understand. It would have to be like disgruntled Superman. He's tired of the life of saving people. If the movie took place on like the south side of Chicago That's where Superman grew up And Superman would definitely have to be divorced

If that were the case Yes Dude Lois don't call me again You want what? Oh, more money Luthor I'm going to tell you this one more time You do that stupid dog whistle shit

I'm going to rip your neck out of your head You don't want to live here You don't want to live anywhere You just want to go back to crimpton That's all you want well it's not there anymore also I mean yeah he can claim it's the cape but you're telling me James Kahn

with that chest hair is going to put on a skin tight suit and you're not going to see like a little puffed up it's coming through I think yeah they're strong they push through where other ones would not bathroom rug that was all over his chest and back rest in peace by the way Kryptonians just are they're hairy people

come on that would have changed the entire Superman mythos forever, you know? That's true. Robin Williams would have to be on the Crypton Council. We're making a good movie, a good hairy movie right now. Jamel, what was your history with this film? So I, the first time I saw this movie was maybe everything pre-pandemic is now hazy to me,

but it might have been like five years ago, four years ago. I think I had decided just sort of out of the blue. I think I had watched Collateral for the first time and I was like, you know what? I love this movie. Let me just like watch all of Michael Mann stuff. And so I just kind of like went to the beginning and like watched the if it was sort of

I mean was and still am every time I'm watched this movie completely blown away by it. Blowed away by just how confident and assured and sort of like perfectly formed it is. It just it feels like something from the mind of someone who has, who is like 10 movies deep in his career and has finally kind of refined what he's concerned about or what she's concerned about and what she wants to, to make

movies about versus, you know, someone that this is their first real feature. Although on the flip side, right, like, there's a way, I just, this is not related to this movie at all, but I just watched for the first time, Nasca of the Valley of the Wind, which is, Yeah, amazing movie. And Miyazaki is first featured by himself. And there's a similar thing going on there, too, where it's like maybe you don't know if you can make another movie. And so you're just like jamming everything into this one, right? Like everything that you've ever thought about that you think, that you care about, you're going to like put it into this one movie and hope that it works.

Well, that's interesting because I mean, like this movie is like pure orange concentrate without any water in it. Like, you know what I mean? It's almost it's almost too sharp that way because. Because it's, I mean, like, so much of man, for me anyways, process, process, process. And that's what like 90% of this movie is. There is some, there's literal drama. And I think the diner scene, you know, really plays to that and a little bit of the villain else and stuff too.

But so much of it is, this is how you break into a vault. This is how you do this. This is how you do that. This is, you know what I mean? Like, and that shows up in Manhunter, heat, collateral, all over the place. But I mean, there, there's other themes here. It's like so much of it is about process and late. I mean, it's perfect that it's about a diamond thief because it's diamond-like.

It's the impact of each image and the way they flow is so perfect. It's incredible that he did this first and then makes these much bigger movies that are much more ambitious and taking much bigger chances because he got it so right the first time. Well, I mean, not the, I mean, if anybody's seen the Jericho Mile, you know, not not fantastic. But to know that he did this right Not long after that was incredible Because this is so every beat of it And everything is in the details Like everything you need to know about him as a character

You know in the like The way he never says murder or rape When he does the diner scene Those are two things he will not own up to Things like that tell you so much about him Without slowing down the pace of the movie And the engine of it It's unbelievable.

Right. Yeah. Fucking believable. It's not overbearing. It gets that stuff across without, you know, taking too long. No. Yeah, totally. And it's crazy.

This was actually my first ever Michael Mann movie. A friend of ours, even in high school, was obsessed with this dude. And he was like, look, we were in like 10th grade, maybe something like that. And he was like, I have this tape. James Con from The Godfather. He plays like a diamond thief. It's fucking awesome. and I still like to this day

remember sitting in my friend's parents like study like their little TV room just watching this shitty VHS tape of thief and being totally rocked on my ass and then like going to the library and finding more like to have like your first encounter with the filmmaker also be his first

feature and it's like perfectly constructed total like once in a lifetime thing I feel if you're not familiar with this movie yes Jimmy Khan plays a professional diamond thief real deal pro here who meets a lady friend in Tuesday Weld and is trying to get out of the life.

He meets Robert Proske in one of the greatest villain turns of all time who promises, you know, fast cash, yada, yada. It's a big, make money quick, get out, and retire criminal movie. And the added bonus of his fucking tech buddy in it all is one of our best friends, Mr. James Belushi.

Totally killing it in this movie, I think. Yeah, he's good. film debut by the way of Praski James Belushi Dennis Farina's debut and little

little backstage information this is the second time we've tried to do this episode so we all of us have had to watch him like twice and three weeks

and both times I missed William Peterson in the bar scene oh really both times oh my God he looks gorgeous in this

he's in it for a flash but it looks unbelievable in this and two times in three weeks, I was totally fine with it. I was like, yep, that's cool. Put it back on. Let's go. Kind of crazy, Praski, you know,

because when he did TV movies or something before this, but he feels like someone who's also like fully formed. Yes. So, yeah. His role, like, man is to direct it. Right. Well, dude, and it's your first movie role that you're having in your career. He's fucking 50 in his film debut.

Never give up, kids. No, never ever give up. The other thing is this movie. I mean, so I watched, I have the criteria in Blu-ray that came out last year or the year before. And so I watched the special features and there's a long interview with man about this movie

and he mentioned that in addition to everything else, there's like just lots of actual criminals in this movie, like, you know, actual thieves. A lot of the equipment is equipment that belongs to actual thieves that like Jimmy Con like learn how

to use. And so like for the safe cracking scene, you know, to the extent that it was possible, they really wanted Kahn to be able to crack a safe and do it. And so I just, I mean, one of the things I love about man as a filmmaker,

and it's just sort of a guy, is that sort of like he has his real affection for lawbreakers. I mean, you can tell it's like very evident in his movies, but also it seems like in his personal life as well, just like he likes criminals. No, it's also the pulse of real life, right?

It's like giving that sense of like lived in authority to these roles that you would usually have what fucking Dax Shepard fucking playing like really I don't need it like having a guy like the guy my favorite guy in the whole movie is the guy who has to build the burner for him oh yeah I could not get that guy out of my head and it's because he's one of these guys who's been doing this shit forever and Michael Mann was just like that's a good face I'm going to put that face here. Somebody who can talk about this stuff for real and doesn't have

to like memorize it and like think of theatrical ways of delivering. It can't just do it. And like, oh, kills. And man does have this eye for just sort of like, not just faces, but like the most Chicago faces you can imagine. Oh my God. Yeah. You can smell the fucking sausage

the guys playing the scuzzy cops that are following him through most of the film. Those fucking guys. And also some real uggos too. That's the other thing. These are real deal, you know, prime A cut American faces. The guy who plays Yerzzi, who is the technical advisor of the movie, who is a real deal jewel thief, et cetera, et cetera.

He is a guy that wakes up. I wish I looked a little bit more like Danny DeVito. Like, I wish, if I had that, you know, if I get a good DeVito going here, go out to the club, pick up some lady. Like, you wish you looked like Danny DeVito. Danny DeVito and then go to the club and be like

Hey I'm Danny DeVito That is the high water Mark of what your Rizzi could look like Oh my God Danny DeVito's in here Someone get him some Comptly Micello Now we're talking

Are you a melted Dennis Franz No I'm your Rizzi Will you please I love the beginning The rain is the first thing you hear And the score It takes a little while to kick in and hot damn

just having the confidence again for this movie we're going to start with rain there's no score and then the blue like cursive font on black it's so stylized it is it's a shocking movie

that is his first I mean it's first 10 minutes of no dialogue it's the music it's the cut of the image it's the pace of the image you hear the radio of not bear

Barry is Jim Belushi and I get Jesse, I think, is the other guy. Joseph is the other guy. Joseph is. Oh, yeah, not Michael Douglas, the third guy. Yes, the third guy. Wheelman, radio. I love that guy. Great mullet on that fucker later in the movie. But, like, other

than that, like, I think you may be here Jim Belushi say, I got it, I got it, and that's it. Like, and it's just 10 minutes of setting up how professional, not only is James Kahn in this role and as this character, but only, also Michael

Man. He did, he did, he did, he, he should, sets himself up in 10 minutes. He's like, I know how to do this shit. I can move now with actual dialogue to help me rather than just the image and the power of the image. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, there's great details like, you know, you know that he's such a super pro at this. He's not like skimming anything else with the way that he's tossing all the other jewels and everything on the floor. Like, that's not the shit I need, you know. So he's not even like taking something extra. It's like, I need these envelopes with the diamonds and that's it. I was

watching that and I was like, yes, I know that that shows he's a total professionally so much smarter than I'll ever be, but I'm like, what do you put some of those in your pocket? You know what I mean? Like, just to have some... You might want some extra diamonds at some point. Yeah, some walking jewels for sure. Exactly. You got a grand...

You're to impress an old lady in the building. Like, here you go, sweetheart, some diamonds. Some spending rubies. That's how you get pinched because now she's going to be talking about this Fancy movie, she goes out. That's right. See, Steve, that's why you'd go to jail. Yeah, go to jail, get murdered by Robert De Niro. Different movie, but I wish. This whole sequence, too, is what

Wendig Reffin, like, totally ripped for the start of drive, which is fine. I love drive. But, like, you watch this movie and it's like, well, that's where he got this part, along with other parts, but a lot, this part. Oh, yeah. The only thing we're missing is a fucking Laker game on the radio. I mean, honestly. That whole movie is essentially Thief and Walter Hills

the driver having a hump session. Yeah. Which is a beautiful little baby that comes out of that hub session. I love Belushi's look man. He's got these fucking like

Elvis sideburns. This is like right around well actually it's I think it's probably a few years before because I think he's on S&L in like 85 or something like that. So he's that's pretty if you've ever seen Jim Belushi

in SNL that's kind of how he looks here but he's got these Elvis sideburns he's wearing a lot of like Hawaiian shirts that are open most of the time fucking great you don't see a big Chicago guy in a Hawaiian shirt like that too often which is nice yeah it looks like 1983 uh he joined the cast oh was 83 okay it's a closer that I thought um but yeah so jimmy con is Frank the professional jewel thief I love the the little scenery is given the you want a Danish to the little fisherman on the lake there oh yeah it's such an awesome like you know literal calm before the storm it's cool i mean so it starts you get all this like dense process of you know he's got this crazy drill and all this

stuff you know you kind of don't know what's going on you figure out he's throwing out all these diamonds he gets all these little envelopes he leaves and then we go to the car the uh the car dealership and then it's more impenetrable opaque process it's like i need these titles i need you to go down to the courthouse and do this and do that it's like it's just on it's layers on layers And it's like, to the point where you're like, who is anyone? And again, it's fine. It's a Michael Mann movie. But I mean, at the same time, like, it is, we are so in the weeds every minute.

And that's a great thing. But it's just funny to have. But the thing is, it's, it's dense. And the movie does not even attempt to slow down to sort of like explain who these people are or what is happening. But it doesn't feel oppressive, right? Like, it doesn't feel like you are struggling to understand something. You're just sort of like, you're either. in it. You're in it as a viewer and you're sort of experiencing it as a viewer and now you're just

sort of like part of this, uh, this atmosphere. Yeah. And it's that that confidence is what makes this all like not didactic either is like you can sit there and it's like that is legitimately how it would probably sound to have someone barking at you at like a used car lot and you have to move this car over there and this is over going over here and put that there like Steve said get those titles. But it's all like that's the process. But instead of feeling like he's teaching it to you, you're just like living in it. Like this is, it feels so like how a car lot probably operates.

Like, it's not as funny as it is in Fargo. No, it's a lot duller. You're just moving product around a lot very boringly. A lot of, you know, managing people. And what I think is so good about this is you could have gone from that first 10 opening minutes and make this

like a cool guy, like a Melville type character where you don't really have much of an inner life from him or anything. what this scene tells you is that this guy's a fucking control freak. It's not just the job. He needs to have this thing going all the time. If he doesn't, he will just collapse.

He's flipping out all the time of this movie. He's awesome. Everybody was, it's incredible. And like the fact, that's why you need someone like James Con who can just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and not make it sound like he's rushed or anything to make it sound like it's very on purpose every time he does it. So they go to the diner, which I. love. This guy, Hal Frank playing Joe Gags. Dude, I am, wow.

You want to go to a great face. Not Otho. I've been calling this guy the past couple weeks. This guy should be on a deli sign somewhere. This guy is so just character out the ass. And he's like watery, creepy blue eyes under these enormous glasses. It's just a perfect face. He looks like a sad ghost.

I mean, it's really. And just your name is Joey Gags too. Yeah, that's fucking. thing, man. And he's been at this diner for a while. He's been taking even, you feel bad because at the end, he's like, let me take care of the bill, because you know Joe Gags went house

on this thing. He got the side sausage. Lumberjack breakfast. Definitely. James, going to get the steak and the eggs. And let me get one of those biscuits. And let me get, you know, I get some of those hot links. Like a look down at the, at the receipt

and it's like 15 pancakes. What the fuck? You know, let me just have the whole menu let's stop picking it around let's just do the whole menu it'd be great if he's like I got it I got it really $45

$45 in 1980 on breakfast are you fucking kidding me 45 how are you still alive first how are you so alive I think $45 and like $1980 is like a mortgage payment yes that's no that was your

that was your college education that you could pay off really quickly yeah of course yeah waiting table And now we have to be a thief to make it, you know? Oh my God, Joe Gags looked like he ate four semesters worth of the diner this morning. He had steak on top of corned beef hash.

It's just not done usually, but you know what? The customer's always right. But yeah, he gets all these like cool little envelopes and not even envelopes like this folded wax paper. Yeah, like this guy open up the paper. I'm like, that is so fucking cool. It's a good way to do that.

Dude, the wax paper, it's speaking of delis. dude it's like diamond deli i couldn't believe it and the way joe got i mean it's you know they've probably done this at this exact diner a thousand times so he's like a little laid back about it but this motherfucker's opening the shit like right at the table i'd be like i don't know man i'm gonna go to the bathroom real quick get a stall you know do this all right waitresses like coming over pouring coffee but diamonds are just out on the bench the stall you're dropping it in the toilet sorry i just feel like i don't know i feel like in that kind of that kind of diner and that kind of neighborhood in that situation.

You know, you just, you see stuff. You're like, I didn't see anything, right? Like, it's not totally. Yeah. Did you see, hey, man, did you see some men handling diamonds? I don't even know what diamonds are. What do you talk about? That's the way to be, honestly.

You see something, you know? I didn't see, uh, I didn't see, uh, any man, uh, handling diamonds. I saw one man handling a pizza burger at 8 a.m. Joey gags. I don't even know, a pizza burger 8 a.m. My God. Oh, yeah. It's, oh, it's breakfast.

Oh, yeah. You know what? Put a fried egg on the pizza burger. Why don't you just, you know, what, top that baby off? I mean, that'd be great. The detective's like reading the fuck. Wait a second. Pizza burger?

This has to be Joey gag. Oh, it's the diamond thieves again. It's his MO. Yeah. I could just about Eric to what you were saying, though. Like, I can't imagine if they were like, oh, going to the bathroom. Joe, like, Joey gags, such as he is trying to get into a stall with these things out, which is end an absolute disaster. I can't.

I can't. I don't imagine Frank would be happy with it. So Frank agrees with gags like he's going to go exchange out the diamonds for money and then Frank's going to get his cut later from Joey Gags. And meanwhile, you get a quick little notice here. He's got a letter from his buddy Oakla, who we will learn as Willie Nelson in a few minutes saying, ooh, you got to come quick, come visit me in prison. But then so just that's like a quick detail to get in. And then immediately we get right back into it. Jim Belushi calls him at this bar. I love, man, cell phones ruin this. I was never old enough to get a phone call at a bar. Oh, yeah. And to have that, like, the bartender be like, oh, we just left hang on.

And then have some old guy like, come back here. Come back here. Well, too, I love this whole thing. A bar you own. I mean, that's the best to have your bar phone at your own bar. That is fantastic. Also, we get a quick Tuesday weld is at the diner. Right.

Yes. cashier what's her name I'm completely blanked Jesse yes and they make a date for later tonight that he is going to blow

that we all like it is incredible that it is such perfect dialogue I will call you back in 25 minutes like yep that speaks to Michael Mann's like exactitude he's like everyone needs to speak

an exactness but even the script I mean the script is even so much more laser focus written by man based off a book that seems like it was very loosely based off a book. I have this this has worked twice now so I'm going to do it a third time. If anybody can get me this book that this was based on

on a PDF, the Home Invaders, it's 300 bucks on Amazon. I'm not doing that. No. And it's the same thing. The book that informs all the Safty Brothers movies about like street hustlers and like pickpockets, like it was based in like 92, you have to spend like 800 bucks to get it now. Way out of print. Also because the advice is too good.

Like, Oh. Man says that the book like loosely bases a bit of a stretch that basically he read the book. That basically he read the book, thought it was interesting and then like tossed it all out and like wrote a script about sort of like, you know, the loosest thing is like, it's about a thief whose name is Frank. But that because because of the way these things work, you have to like include the credit. which makes sense which is interesting though is like even in the Joey Gangs

it's a really quick thing where it's like hey you know we just get everything we need to know here's the diamonds blah blah blah I'll be back in a little bit Joey Gaggs like hey do you want me to put some of your money on the street and he's like no your money

my money is going in my pocket and that is like the entire character period like you get that right there not just in my pocket my money is going in the bank yes right sort of like this is a guy who is not just not just like controlling and even a little ambitious but sort of like

he wants he wants to be free of all of this like this is his goal his goal is to be legitimate I always had this little feeling in the way that Praski is one of the people who refers to him as Sonny and the way that

gags and Praski both offer him to put his money out on the street which I took to mean drugs I don't know if that's really what it means. It could be drugs. It could be, it also could be gambling. I mean, I guess just... Or shopping centers. Or later on shopping. I mean, that is such an amazing little bit. But what I always took that as kind of like almost a nod to like got getting over the godfather.

Like those are two very specific things from the godfather that are carrying over. Yeah. And like I always just like, and I know it's probably not even thinking about it, but like it just always struck me that those are two things that he is specifically like against. he doesn't like being called Sonny and he doesn't like drugs he doesn't want oh yeah yeah it is weird hearing Joey Gags call him sunny I mean I have just I rewatched Godfather like

kind of recently and was like wait what what movie is on here um so yeah Belushi calls back and he's like hey hey remember that like 125K yeah went out the window with gags man he's fucking dead I don't know it's just like what bad news

like you got to call James Conn and give him bad news man oh it's it's a great way to learn for us the audience to learn that information it also would have been a lot of fun to watch that guy go out of window wouldn't it though absolutely i think that's a real like toss a couple eggs out out with them well that's i mean that's the thing that's your fucking pizza burger pavement shatters well that's why you know they couldn't do is because michael man is like uh no i'm going to have to push an actual fat man out the window and he's going to have to hit the pavement. I can't, I can't be doing

this with the dumb here. He doesn't fall the right way. Have you ever seen a man fall? Are you fucking kidding me? Get out of here. So, you know, Frank is like, all right, well, now the rest of my day is fucked because I have to go find this guy and get this

money back, which is why he winds up being late for the date later. But man, him going and fucking shaking this guy down. Another real scuzzy looking guy here. What's this guy? Oh, that's another Italian last name for this character. Ataglia. Ataglia.

Which I was also getting confused about because in Godfather, there's Philip Tataglia. So that was confused me with these names. But yeah, there's a taglia guy who's like running some other plating business and Khan has to go in. And he's like, yeah, he sold me some plates and I

had a lot of problems with them. Once he gets into the office, just instantly pulling that chair up right next to him and sitting down before anything is really sad. And he's not paying attention to him. And then immediately it's like, you know, he fell out a window with my money in his pocket. He's like, go to probate court, which is such a, oh, yeah.

Are you trying to tell me fairy tales right now? I just imagine, like, his chest hair, like, come up straight when he gets angry. Like, like, is that, like, is he alert or is this like Wolverine? Yeah, like the claws come out. Either way, either way, you know. Because he does Dennis Farina shows He was one of the goons

Yes Oh wow I missed Farina too What about what was I doing? Oh yeah Dude he's one of the guns And I think he's the one That con calls a goof

We're calling people goof in this movie Yes Quite a bit It's mostly Jimmy Khan But I think Praski gets a goof in Maybe He calls Jimmy

He calls Jimmy Khan a goof at the end What are the cops calls him a goof He's like you could have given us To all the money You had to be a goof You had to be a goof Which I'm like

What the what are we subbing goof with screenplay? That's what I really wanted to know. But yeah, he pulls a gun on this guy. And yeah, he just basically says, you know, you get, you know, you have three hours to get me my money or blah, blah, blah. And he walks out.

He walks out. And again, like, this is just a commercial plating business. Obviously, everybody kind of knows they work for the mafia. This happens about three times a month, right? Like, it's just like, yeah, another guy with a gun. All right. Yeah. We're not going to.

Yeah, that's why I think the guy at the end there in the office where he tells him to sit down. I think it's that guy's like first day. And he's like, why is no one else shocked by this? This curly-haired man has a gun in the year. I also just, sit down. I love how he walks with this gun, like this tactical movement every moment with it.

Yeah. Which is funny, like, you know, they don't allude to any like military or police training that Frank may have, but he's really like walking around, like he has had some kind of training here. Maybe he's mimicking movies or something. I think they're

it's all comes from prison and like the not being able to having like eyes on the back your head type of thing is what they are suggesting at least right or or vietnam or who knows but you know the guys the guy's kind of a mystery which is awesome i mean that's the thing is is probably a much more put together person than like than what they're expecting most of the time at lna plating i imagine most people that walk in from a prosky side of the tracks are like Jack Nicholson at the end of the Departed like they just got blood and shit all over them everywhere. It's just like

I got to see a taglia. Oh shit I got some brain on my fucking thinking. Oh, wow. He's got another dude with brains all over his shirt. It's another satisfied customer. I feel like this is a sidebar, but I recently rewatched the Departed and I love that Nicholson performance.

I don't understand why people don't like it. I think it's great. I can tell you, I will tell you why they don't like it because he's having fucking fun. Yeah. That's exactly. why they don't like it is because he's having fun and just being an evil motherfucker and it's great, but no, they want like Nicholson to be, every fucking

role has to be about Schmidt now, I guess. That scene where he's like, there's a rat and he like does the rat face. Oscar worthy. Give him an Academy Award. It's perfect. Hell yeah. Incredible work. It's just fun. I mean, like he, the accent, he doesn't exactly

nail, but he's doing it anyway. And he's just, yeah, he's having fun with it. I agree with you yeah uh so we go to visit willie nelson in prison for a fashion here um and this is uh yeah this dude oakla he was inside when you know frank was inside father figure kind of a deal here and he's got he wants frank to get him out of jail because he's been some prisoner doctor but i do not believe a prison doctor has diagnosed him with angina yeah and he doesn't want to die in the inside so he's asking Frank to get him out. Dude, I love, like, Frank's like, oh, so like, how has it been in here these days?

Oakdale, like, what's going on? How is it on the inside? And he's like, man, the quality of prisoner in here. And he starts talking about it. He's like, bummed out that there's child molesters that aren't being murdered immediately. He's like, you know, prison is really going to hell here. It used to be you got one of those guys and you're someone with Jeffrey Dahmer immediately. But he gives him like, he's like, yeah, they'd be done in five days.

but now they're just around and around. I got this guy offering me ramen. He's a rapist. I don't know what to do with myself. And also Reds Bruno got busted. I don't know. Oh, yeah, the big Pruno operation got busted. That's the big report.

That's a quality of life problem. Now I can't even get kind of drunk in here. This is a problem. Absolutely. Totally. I can't get kind of drunk and have food poisoning at the same time. Nelson's great in this movie. How is he still alive?

I'm just like how did he out live James con Willie Nelson is still alive I saw him that was my first concert after the after the pandemic kind of during the pandemic 2021 he's still fucking killing it out there on the road credible I was looking it up actually

Steve because I was like what's going on with this movie Jimmy Khan not terribly younger than Willie Nelson yeah by like by like seven years or so maybe it's the weed huh it could be hey you know yeah I mean once you can

get past a certain age, though, it's kind of just all a crap shoot. It's like, you know, maybe you'll live one more year, maybe 20, who knows. Right, that's true. Exactly. But Willie Nelson gives a big point of advice here because, you know, Jimmy Kahn's telling him about Tuesday, well,

you know, I met this girl, Jesse, blah, blah, blah. Also informs him that he's divorced. We get no more information about that ex-wife, which I kind of want a little bit of, let him go off on a rant here about that. Just a phone call. Please, just to get somebody to get Diane Lane. somebody to do a fucking phone

call. Diane Lane in 1980? Yeah, no, maybe it's a younger wife. I don't know. Screaming at a teenager, dude. I bet you he's done that before James comes. Oh, I'm sure. To describe the end of your marriage is, I pulled the plug. I pulled the plug on that whole thing.

I pulled the plug on it. Yeah, he pulled the plug. That's a real fucking he came home and she was gone. Oh, yeah. I think he's puffing it up to talk to Willie Nelson. It's incredible that like all this happens and you notice that James Frank doesn't mention like

I've known her for like two months, two, three months. Yeah, yeah, she's going to be my wife. Yeah, yeah, I think we're going to be, yeah, we'll see. I'm just going to force her to marry me is what's going to happen. Well, he's making up for lost time, dude. He doesn't have time for a long

courtship, you know, and then an even longer engagement. He's got to get to it. I got to say, I mean, this con performance is so goddamn good because when he's with Nilly Nelson, like, he softens a little bit. You can see that he's hurting for his friend. Like, there's just so much going on behind the eyes of this performance. It's kind of a travesty.

He wasn't nominated. Yeah. We haven't even brought up the fact that we've already seen his little dream board that he keeps. Oh, yeah. And, like, that is all unique. Like, that unlocks everything. Like, I'm like, that he has this, like, almost childish thing.

Yeah, it makes it. Like, what's great, too, is, like, later when they do the adoption stuff. And he was, like, a ward of the state at some point. Like, he's just been. through the system over and over again and just fantasizing about being a regular guy, getting out of this life and having this little board of like, yeah, this thief I met in prison, he's kind of like my dad. And then this is going to be my wife. And then X, we're going to get another lady to be my wife. I had to pull the plug on that part of the dream board.

If I can, if I work hard enough at the profession, if I'm good enough at the profession I'm at, I can buy normalcy. I can do it. That's what I'm trying to do right here. It's amazing, though, because that's a great one-to-one to Jamie Fox's character in Collateral. And he's got the thing in the mirror that he pulls down and looks at the island and that, you know, similar, I'm telegraphing my dreams. Maybe Michael Mann is a secret guy. Maybe he believes is a secret. I think so. I think so, dude. I think if you look at who adapted that movie, remember they did that secret movie. I think that's whoever they say directed, it's an Alan Smythe from Michael Mann. He hasn't been doing much. So yeah, maybe. be in between. He did some outsmithies.

So it's a gnome to film. Absolutely. Yeah. So Willie Nelson, the big piece of advice that, you know, Oktow puts out on him, he's like, you know, because James Conn says, should I tell her what I do? And he's like, you know, don't lie to anybody. You know, if you lie to someone you love, it's going to fuck you over. And he's like, and if you're lying to someone you don't know, the hell's it matter if you're telling them the truth, which is a fucking great. Like, yeah, right. Always be a straight shooter.

but very important. Tell her up front, you're a fucking thief, yada, yada. So then James Kahn's very busy morning. He goes straight from here to the meat has been set, you know, three hours later to go get the money back. And here we go. We're fucking meeting on the docks in the middle of the night with Robert Praski. We're being fucking observed by crooked cops from afar. I love this scene. It's so good.

And I mean, I love the Attaglia. He sees Frank for what he is. like this dude is fucking trouble. You have to kill him. It's not going to work out. You know, he's doing the real, like, you know what? I don't even know what we're doing here tonight, frankly, Robert Frosky. This is fucked up. You're betting on the wrong horse here.

And Frank, super smart with all of this too. You know, he's no stranger to this. No spring chicken. He's got Jim Belushi up on the roof for sniping purposes. Absolutely. I'm surprised he doesn't have the go ahead for Belushi for when, if any, who's trying to hire me calls me their father

that's the go ahead you broke their head right off how about that shit like the fact that he is so like quietly condescent like not even quietly just but like so self-assuredly condescending to him because he has so much

power because he has been quietly working for him for so long without knowing it in a way and he was trying to get him into that organizational fold of like yeah I'm the I'm the head I'm the I'm the big daddy over here at the mafia so it's even better he says like oh you know both he lays it all out like these kinds of scores is how much you're going to make is like and basically i'll be your father from here

on out when he says that he puts his foot on his wheel well just to sort of like impose a bit more it's like yeah cross he's fantastic in this he is great i'll say what's happening too is and this is a thing common to kind of everyone that encounters frank they all sort of like have a fundamental misunderstanding of who this guy is right like they don't really quite like it's clear that Prosky just sees him as sort of like this young this young thief, this young guy who does a good work, but like

is not more complicated than that. And Frank you know, being, he implies that he spent so much of his life thus far in prison. He's sort of like shaped by that experience so much and has this sort of like this singular

this singular drive that is sort of almost like a shark, right? It's like the shark-like sort of like drive to find stability and is willing to do a whole lot to get there. And like in a way that like no one else

really kind of understands other than maybe Willie Nelson. Like Willie Nelson's the guy who kind of gets Frank on this like subatomic level. But I feel like at least to a degree Praski is able to acknowledge that. sees it right away and he's like i all right i know what this guy is and i can abuse that and get him to do my bidding i'm gonna say all the right things you know and get him out of there and and it's great

they have this like tete-a-tete where you know prosky's like well who are you who do you think you are and con's got this great line he's like i am joe the boss of my own body so what the fuck do i need to work for you for you know what i mean like it's so oh back and forth they're like boxing but they're just having a calm little conversation You want to talk, take it to the Lonely Hearts Club. Yeah, totally. Country Club, go to a country club. And he gives it to him straight. He's like, these are the

you know, this is what I do. Like, you know, I only steal from your businesses. I don't do any personal jobs. It's only diamonds and cash. You know, not getting, you know, I love how he has that set of rules for himself. Yeah. That he doesn't go against in the movie as far as like what the jobs are.

Because he's successful. He's proud of himself. Like when he goes to Willie Nelson, he's like, you know, when he says, how are you doing? He shows him a watch and a ring, like, I'm doing great. You know what I mean? Like, he's in a good spot at the beginning of this movie and it doesn't last very long. Well, because he bought into the idea of worth in the real world because he lost the worth in prison. Prison is where he lost the actual inner stuff.

But the way that he can, like, just rattle off, like, I, I'm a $150 slacks when I was sat in shirts, flawless, 10-d-carat wearing. I change cars, like, other guys change their shoes. Yes, to talk about, like, what I own because that's all he has now is, like, what he owns. That's the thing. He's institutionalized. He can't relate with other people and people can't relate to him unless they were also institutionalized, like Willie Nelson. Well, yeah. I mean, it's incredible that you see.

set him up with Prossky, who is, like, as you were saying, both Andrew and Jemel, I think both you were talking about this, about the fact that, like, yeah, he has probably, Praski has seen this guy, guys like this a hundred times and has broken them all. Like, every time when he had to push them and tell them what their place was, they listened. He was not prepared for a guy like this who was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I will burn the whole fucking thing down. Right. Don't, that's sort of the difference. Yeah, that's the difference. it's like it's incredible and like it to me it is such a perfect i mean for like what i usually look for movies like this is such a personal calling card for a director like man who's like you know don't work with me if you're not ready to deal with my bullshit because it's going to be a lot and everybody knows everybody's heard the stories like if you're going to deal with

me it's going to be hard as fuck but i'm going to do the job right and he i think for the most part has proven himself correct it's also famously hard of hearing so he's screams constantly, even when he doesn't want to be screaming. Which is why it's fucking hilarious that he's making this Ferrari movie, because I'm sure it's going to be like mixed to high hell. It's all going to be deafened watching the movie. Oh, I'm looking

forward to it, man. Oh, yes, definitely. He's been living out in Italy for a while, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think that's where he calls home for several years. And it's kind of great, because in a way, I think that's why Frank is sort of I don't know. I mean, that gels with

Jesse isn't exactly correct. But like she has that whole great story if I'm reading it all right that she was like a drug meal for some dude and so she at least is like you know criminal world you know participant you know

tangentially related to yeah dude died like she's lived it and she's also got I mean like you this is a note that I wrote down when you see her at the bar kind of falling asleep because she's been waiting for this fucking guy she's got second wife written all over her man that's it

Oh, yeah. That is wife number two is what's going on. This awesome little, quick, like, musical interlude of her waiting at this awesome, you know, just Chicago bar. There's a blues band playing. They're fucking rocking. It's another, like, you know, man, I wish I was there right now. Like, I just wish I was in this disgusting bar listening to awesome music definitely smells like old cigarettes. Oh, yeah. And new cigarettes. old cigarettes old and nude him fucking going dragging her to this diner man

causing a scene once again man nobody causes a scene in public like James Khan man well that's what William Peterson should have known he should don't don't try to tame a tiger he's gonna come after you I like the fact that there's a song that the song is turning point which I think is a pretty

well-known like blue standard and I like the fact that like she is also at a turn like what Steve was saying like she's also at a turning point like she just got over all this stuff right and it's funny that like this him roping her into this because he pulls her out of this fucking club

and like multiple people try to stop him and he pushed them off like he's being a fucking asshole tells him to take a walk I think he shows someone a gun at some point it looks wrong and it is wrong People are seeing things and are saying things about it. They're like, I don't like anything this guy is laying down right now.

And they're correct. Well, and she keeps on saying, like, no to him because she is like, I'm done with this shit. I'm fucking done with it. And how he like, wrote, like, pulled me back in, like in these, in this two scenes that happen are is incredible, the car scene and then at the diner scene, which is just like. The diner scene's terrific. One of my favorite lines that Tuesday World has is just talking about like, and he is also being like, incredibly demeaning. It's like, what, what's so wonderful about your life right now?

And she's like, you know what? I wake up. I have a social security card. Like that being an achievement for this character because, you know, she's been in Bogota and God knows where she even says that, you know, Khan eludes like, you don't want to get arrested to Bogota's. I was, you know what I mean? Like there's a lot being laid out between these two.

And it's a fantastic scene. Oh, yeah. She holds up her in perfect. Oh, yeah. You got to get to where nothing means nothing, right? you got it. Yeah. And it's just I think Chris you mentioned this earlier. Like he doesn't talk about sexual assaults. He's like

they wanted to turn me out and I had a problem with that and then it's like... He does say gay bang. Well, yeah, they jumped on me, did a bunch of things and then blah, blah, blah, blah. He just did a bunch of things. Yeah, that's actually a good point though because Eric, I mean, you're both right. At the

start of it, when he starts the story he's talking about there was a corrections officer and some of the inmates were getting together and doing fucking gang bangs in some part of the prison. But then when he gets to his experience with it, he leaves that out.

It doesn't say they fucking ran a train on me also. They got gay. The people get gang banged when it's happened. That's some other. Some stuff happens. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, that's, I mean, he does that. He won't say that. And then he's, he's very like, there are two guys who wanted me when I first got.

I got in on a $40 charge. I was going to be in for two years. And then there were two guys who, wanted me as soon as I got in did did the yada yada yada yada I had a manslaughter charge that put him me in for seven more years

so it's all about not like owning up to like the mortal sins he's like the real fucking shit that he did yada over the best part yes that's true I mean because he had to ship those people that's what I think they're assuming it also tells you something about Tuesday well character one couple great things

one she says what were you where were you in prison please pass the cream which is such a fucking great little. And then when he says like what he, you know, this whole thing and the gangbanks in there, the leader was this big hulking dude and he's like, yeah, I took a pipe to his head three

times and then he died two years later. A huge loss to the planet Earth. And she like chuckles at that. It's like, yeah. Like it's kind of cute. Like I don't know. This guy's kind of winning me over. He killed somebody. I mean, it's he's not like on the one hand he's not being

completely forthrighted of what happened to him. what he did, but it's clear that, like, as he, like, he's attracted to this woman and as he's sort of just, like, talking and explaining, he's becoming more vulnerable. This is a person who does not become vulnerable with people, but in the course of this conversation is becoming more vulnerable and Tuesday Weld as well as well as becoming more vulnerable as the conversation goes on. Let me say, I love this scene. I think this is like, like, I think this is just like a wonderful scene. And, and I'm always struck by how, uh, man and his cinematographer just like let the camera hang out like it's not it's not tons of cross-cutting

not lots of movement just sort of like we're going to watch these two adult people talk about adult stuff and like sit with how weird and complicated it is and it's like yeah I just I just you know it does sit there I mean it's very actorly too like they really take up the the frame you know what I mean? Like they're con especially. And both of them really do. But I mean, there's just so much of business about like the cigarette won't light. You know what I mean? He's sending back the cream because it's cottage cheese. Oh, man. That I almost throw up everything. First of all, here's the thing with this server. He's like, hey, can we have some new cream?

And she's like, what's wrong with it? Which it's like, just fucking change it out. Don't ask what's wrong with it. But yeah, it's cottage cheese. I got to be honest. I don't look at stuff like that. if I just like grab the cream poured of my coffee and like chunks came out. I throw up. I just like throw up on a table. I've had that hat. I haven't thrown up but I've definitely poured and then just

like cheese curds come up and you're like oh man, should have should have changed this out. Although actually the best was one time at New Year's Day we were really hung over and we went to the diner in our neighborhood and they'd like forgotten to turn the heat on so they opened for business

and it was still too cold and like the fucking creamer cup was like frozen on the table it was so terrible and then like at the very end of the meal we're leaving money and the guy's like oh by the way happy new year i forgot what day it was i was like oh my god dude but just totally frozen just just not coming out because it was a stone that would be an interesting way for that scene to go and there's a guy's name was uh joey meatball oh hold on I mean, but that's, I mean, that's the thing. That's with his character, right?

Like, the thing that pisses him off the most is people not doing their job right. Yes. Like, so her not's doing it immediately pisses him off the lighter. Stupid lighter, you're supposed to be lighten. Like, you know, it's what's this little bick can't even do it's stupid bick lighter job. I'm going to write a letter to that little bick. But this is also what spurs him to work with Prossky, which he knows, he knows it's a bad idea. you know what I mean?

Like he knows like this guy's blah, blah, blah, but he buys into it because it's going to get him where he needs to go that much quicker and, you know, shortcuts, you know, that's how that works. Sometimes they blow up in your face. But so this is the first, the big thing. And it's kind of interesting because even though this is a Chicago set film and these are Chicago criminals

and Chicago people, we have the big L.A. job that we have to do. It's a Michael Mann movie. We were getting back to Los Angeles nice and early here. they're going to case the joint I love again all this fucking process they're up on this roof weeks in advance with Praski like what do you need

these are the alarm systems and it's this interesting thing where like this vault has five different alarms and they can't figure out the fifth one and it's like why this is all so perfect in this movie is like you don't have to understand a lick of what they're talking about when Jim Belushi's like trying to get

the electrical signals on the different lines and the you know cons looking at that voltage meter. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I don't know what to be looking for. But I just know that they're doing a job that they know how to do very well. And I can just kind of like kick back and like watch them work. And it's

thrilling. It's thrilling to watch these schlubb dudes stand on a roof and case a fucking place that they're going to break into. It's awesome. Well, it has its roots in problem solving. That's like the best dialogue in the world and process to me is something everybody can relate to

is like, how do you solve a problem? in a group like I never have by the way oh never never never happened oh interesting nope he just hides under a pile of coats and hopes everything will be fine is it working did you do it right I'll say it's it's um you know this this movie is so it's both sort of like it's both

it encapsulates if like everything man is concerned about but it also is sort of like the template for so many of his movies and like he returns to so many sort of like setups and conceits in other movies. And so I'm just thinking about, like, the protagonist, antagonist, like, on a rooftop

discussing, right? Like, what's going to come next? Or, like, your protagonist in front of a body of water contemplating what's going to come next. Sort of like, all these things are here. And then, of course, like, the filmmakers who very, like, consciously, like, ape man, like, use these things, too.

So, like, the rooftop shit is, you know, it's always thing that sticks up to me from the dark night, which is like very clearly, just like, Chris Nolan's like, I want to make a Michael Man movie with, you know, Batman. Yeah. No, no problems here. But yeah, I mean, he definitely, that movie has seen heat and boy howdy has it ever. I think it's also seen this quite a lot. Yeah, I think it's seen this quite a bit. And also, I mean, like the other things, man tropes, the sage old thief that has the long, dark hair with the white beard like that, I mean, it's Willie Nelson, but, you know, what do you call there?

John, John Voight in heat looks very similar to William Nelson. Oh, he sort of does. For no reason. You know what I mean? He likes that. Was John Voight filming that around the same time as like Anaconda? Maybe. Actually, they can what?

I mean, it would make sense. Maybe a difference of like three years. I don't know. He should have used the Anaconda accent. Absolutely. No, I think that. That really would have sealed it as a purpose. perfect movie.

This city could kill you with a thousand ways. John, we're going to do that again. What are you doing? Why are you doing this? I'm just going to tell you, Wayne Groh checked into the head of the suite on the 17th floor. Yeah, dude, that accent and him saying, Wayne Groh, you know it would be hilarious. But yeah, so we're in L.A. just to see the, see the job, they kind of go back. This is the meddler just seen, which is all.

Awesome. Because his whole thing is like, we can't crack this safe. I want to cut a new fucking hole in it and walk through it. It's so awesome. Give me a three hour movie of this guy telling me how he figures out what, like, I'll chew it, I'll bite on it. I piss on it a little bit. I spit on it. You know what? You know how I figured out what was in Thanos's gauntlet? Captain America, he'd come back. I chewed on the gauntlet. I chewed on it a little bit. I calmed on it a little bit to see what we'll see what that would do and uh turns out that was a trick I honestly if if that infinity war when Thor has to make his new hammer

or whatever and like they went full Michael man with Peter Dinklage as that giant guy like that would be incredible it's gonna be a couple weeks it would be like 41 grand it would be awesome of it's just like

because he's like a giant in that movie it's like huge Peter Dinklage and he's using those little whatever the tools is the dude's like measuring out like he's looking at James Kahn's drawing and he's like all right

doing these little like things in his head just seeing Peter Dinklage like all right for the sword here you're just going to have all right it's going to be a 40% space zinc it's going to be 70 titanium can we get what's this stuff from Wakanda

we're going to need a bunch of that tool Jesus Christ. Yeah. It's going to be a job. It's going to be a bitch to yield. I'm going to tell you. To actually use the thing, it's going to be a pain in the ass. Unless your girlfriend gets cancer, she'll be able to use it. It's Thor, Love and Thunder. Don't give me started in that movie. At the time of this recording, we're recording this a little early from release. I still have not seen it. Oh, that's fine.

Horrid movie. Yeah, I just, yeah, his whole thing all the stuff with the metallurgy. He's basically like, he's telling James Khan something about like his son-in-law thought it would be good to get this like scientist guy in to be doing like some fancy measurements and figuring

out what's in all these medals and he's making fun of them for wearing a lab coat. Like, which is totally true, man. Read the room. Look at all these like scuzz dudes you're dealing with. They all look like the guy who's in the little boat in fucking water world, the little gas guy. They all look like him.

Like take that lab coat off. buddy yeah i mean i like i said i could watch this guy talk for just three hours just a documentary about this guy and his life would do me just fine but i do also really love the the scene where they go to buy a house together like this to me also speaks to the thing i was so like the the way that like he is dependent like he they show james cond is dependent on jim boulushi to do part of the work. Like, it's not all about him being a one man operation for whatever his perfections are. He needs

other people to work. And, like, the way he talks to where he's like, do you like this house? I don't know what this, but I know the value of money. I don't know what things are supposed to look like nice. I don't know that stuff. Yeah. So this amount of money that I'm just about to

drop, you know, does it equal a pretty house? You have to tell me that. That's, I need somebody to tell me these things can, because he's just like sitting there like a lost boy just being like do you like it? I don't know I don't know what I'm doing here you also get a look

into some corrupt Chicago judicial shit here because there's a hearing scene where he goes to you know he's got this lawyer for Willie Nelson trying to you know get him out or whatever this is the hearing and it's the fucking lawyer and the judge

doing like finger signals as to how much money this judge is going to need Yeah, the bribery stuff. Oh, my God. It is so good. And it does, it's another moment where it feels like, yes, this obviously probably happens. Yeah. Yep.

And it's just, it's so great. Like, yeah, the finger signs, it's back and forth. It's like, I'm still not convinced for three, three, two, yeah. He's going to need six, six thousand for Earl Wapner out there. Earl Warren. Oh, Earl Warren. Followed. Or although they should have made a judge Wapner reference, but I don't know if he was doing

people's court at the time. It's a good point. Maybe he was still a real judge. we do get a Jim Belushi Another scene here where he like tells him They're having like a barbecue at the house This is a nice like Belushi Definitely validating him

Because he gets out of the car And he's just like What is a rich person live here? Look at this house hon It's got to be it's got to be a rich person Hey are you rich? And it's like oh yeah you know Hold on look at Mr. Too Good for a Murphy bed all of a sudden

Okay all right I had no idea We were against Murphy Beds. Ooh, clubhouse crackers. No longer premiums in this house, huh? Would you look at that? Not one of the windows is broken. Ooh, la, la.

I mean, this is a gorgeous house, though. It is. It's an 80s house. There's carpeting everywhere. But I'm loving it. You probably got bathroom carpet, which that could get tricky. Oh, my God.

Bathroom carpeting. Oh, my God. But also, I think this house probably has carpeting on the walls some here and there too. Sealing too. Just to try it out. That almost sounds comfy, but then you got

to get a ladder to vacuum. Yes, that's true. We get a little more from Belushi about how, you know, there's a passcode and you has to debug it and all this stuff. Meanwhile, we're trying to get a kid. This is the adoption seed. Oh, boy.

You got to read the room here, James Con. Yeah. What prior work experience you have oh well I spot welded desks and I did shoes at prison this lady though she's like oh so you became the foreman of the shoe factory

or whatever and he's like lady I was in the fucking joy I was doing time oh so good and you know and then this is you get to do a very you know long winded thing about like give me undesirable kids

older kids yeah we get a faucet of slurs here yeah he's he's going for it and the weirdest part is he's yelling at this lady like you know he does reveal in this scene that you know he did have that he was you know state race and said he's like and if somebody tells me that like what'd you grow up in the suburbs I'd be like decline to comment she's like yes I did as a matter of fact I'm like you're losing the argument yep absolutely why are you talking yes I lived in the suburbs but you've got me all wrong I was rich He's got it great

Because the security guard comes up And it is a fucking class A James Kahn What are you looking at? Right at this guy? Oh man Well yeah Because he could have gone back to jail right there

He was ready for it He was right on the edge Definitely It's this scene So the first time I watched this movie I don't think I was as in attuned To its class politics But this movie has like

It has like real class politics to it And this scene is like a great example of that. Just sort of like, Frank, the thing he, I mean, as we've talked to, but the thing he wants most people to do is not just like by status, but like by respectability, by normalcy. And this scene is sort of like, he shows up with his expensive suit and it's expensive watch. And it's beyond obvious that that doesn't matter. That like his background is all over him. And someone who grew up in the suburbs and grew up middle class or.

affluent can just sort of smell it from a mile away. And so it doesn't really matter how much money he has. Like, he can't actually overcome the injury of his background. Yes, the caste system of America for sure. And that's similar with what we get in the metallurgy scene, the guy with the white coat, right? That's a college boy. Like, what is he doing here? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is this huge divide between those, these guys and those guys. And the movie reminds you of it quite a bit. also he fails at bribing her with the ring which he you know is like well here's the slam dunk

the home run I'll give her this ring and she's like and what is that and he starts like explaining the ring and it's like that's not what she's asking man this isn't going to work it's like it's the same feeling I get because it's horrible right because at the same time he's like we're good people these you know kids need a fucking home I you know I don't understand this disconnect it's kind of this same thing. Stakes aren't as high, but when Don Cheadle's trying to get that loan to open the

electronic store and boogie nights and they're like, oh, what have you done for employment before this? And he has to say that he was a porn star. And then it's like, boom, that job's not acceptable for, you know, owning your own business. Sorry. Well, that's like both that, like, I think of both like Don Cheadle in that movie and a chatting table and Magic Mike when he's trying to get his business off the ground. But those are. two people who I think genuinely think they can get over the thing like the thing that hurts so much about this scene is that you kind he knows what the answer is right going into it he knows already he's just like the way like she's like come on frank let's go and he won't listen

to her is because he wants to hear it he wants her to say it to his face and that's why when she like finally is like well you should go now he says right right right like when he hears the suburbs thing he's like right right yep like that's it that's what i wanted to hear i'm the fuck up i've got to go back to where i should belong yeah um so you know now things are kind of heating up he has an encounter with the cops they you know try to get a bribe you know when i step on your foot and say mr bribe you know he's not like homer sims and he understands what they're doing and he plays them and acts dumb and pisses them off and then the next thing you know oh now the house is fucking bugged.

It's a really awesome, again, no fucking dialogue until after, you know, everything has been shown to you, him just taking the bug out of the phone, sort of showing it to her, like looking at it and then putting it back in the phone, like total pro move right there. You don't want them

to know you found that shit. One thing on Urizi, which we talked about, a bunch of the cop that done it, he's doing this thing that I've never seen, which is you have a tie. And you don't tie a Windsor or any nut you just kind of flap it over anyone notices it's like it's not there's no knot at all it's just like the bare minimum of like i gotta wear a tie at work okay here that the flap is over it's a tie now it's around my goddamn neck well i feel steve like as someone such as yourself coming from you know private catholic school you know you had that right where like i'm not gonna tie the thing all the way or i'm gonna untuck the shirt to rebel yeah yeah yeah it's true but he's a grown man, you see. Oh, right. Yeah. Well, just, you see that

tie on tied like that, it makes him that much more of a slob. Like, it's such a perfect piece of character design right there in costuming. It's like, if that tie is all buttoned up, he's a instantly much better police officer in theory. But if it's down like that, he's a fucking slob thrice divorced, you know. But it also just seems like his body is rejecting order. Like, that's like, he probably put the tie on. coming out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He probably put the tie on the right way and everything. And just like the minute he walked outside the fucking door, it just like, just like it couldn't hold it together. So you give this guy a Caesar salad and it hits the table that it instantly becomes three hot dogs. Like, how did that happen? There wasn't even, there was no pork anywhere near this. He leaves in the suit and the tie done right.

He comes home in a burlap sack somehow. turn it like Jesus Christ turned water into old style. It's fantastic. Absolutely. You know that this Euretze is a dude who celebrates Chicago Christmas properly. That's for damn sure. He's welcomed him sausage claws into the house a couple of times. Oh, yes.

They do the old taillight bit, which is like, yeah, you're under arrest. Your taillights out. You kick it. Always love that. Oh, absolutely. And then they start beating the shit out of him. Oh, they bring them downtown at one point in the movie. And this is like, man, I think

Speaking of fucking ties of the godfather, I think this is some revenge from that brother-in-law getting beat with the garbage can

top in that movie because he gets fucking beat over the back with a phone book at that part? Oh, wow, they're kicking the shit

out of him. And they're just really trying to, you know, you just make it easy on everybody. You know, Ben,

you know, which we're going to find out, never ever happens. Yeah. So he had that first encounter. This beatdown

happens like a little later. First he talks to Praski about the kid adoption. Oh, right. And, oh, you want a kid? I'll get you a kid. Yeah. I'll get you a kid. Do not want to know where he's getting those kids from. Don't want to know. Wait, is it the kid's fault that the mother's a piece of shit? I mean, she's selling the kid. It's a couple ladies. They're making babies. What do you want? You want a fresh bag baby?

Yeah, tell me what type. I mean, the way Praski is like slinging around kids, he's probably a Supreme Court justice in his size. maintaining that domestic supply of infants. You've got to do it. I just love the fact that like when he's doing this, like he's like holding court. Prasky's got like the arms out and he's like, I want a baby? I'll get you a baby. I know these two girls are just pop out babies up in a hotel room. But if you're if you're Frank, James Kahn in this scenario, right. This is where I have a little bit of problem like, yeah, obviously Robert Prost. This is where also Robert Proske is like, oh, I'll get you into all these shopping centers,

blah, blah, blah. It's going to be a great deal for you. He's like, no, no, I don't want to do that. But you got to, when he's like, I'll get your kid, you got to be like, how much? What will we talking here? I want to pay full in cash. I want to pay up front for this kid. You don't want to have a kid on Layaway. I want to buy this baby straight cash. Exactly.

Do you tip her a baby normally? Do you do that? Do you throw an extra $100? She doesn't, she doesn't give anything to that woman who brings the baby downstairs. In fact, at least for the handoff, no. At least in America, they usually untip a baby, you know, circumcision. I gotta say, if I were directing

this movie, because I'm dumb, I would have a scene where she's like holding her hand out for a tip. Just, yeah, I mean, that's got to be... It's a lot of work to have a kid, you know? Do a little baby dash, I guess. Your baby will be at your house in five minutes.

Keep your phone. your side in case your baby dash driver needs to call you with the mission. Make sure it's on vibrate at the very least. It sounds like a bad idea, guys. I mean, it sounds like a bad idea. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure Texas is like brainstorming it right now.

Yeah, I think so. You're going to have to. It's going to be a new tech corridor, Jamel. You know, isn't Elon over there now? So like, yeah. I'm inventing baby dash. It's baby X. We take it to babies and you order

them and three months it's yours so what do you think about that pedifiers I think they like it a lot yes I think they like that it's a good system we go to a meanwhile

you know fucking poor Okla man he gets out you know this is actually in the I'll get you a kid scene he's like he's about to call he calls Tuesday well like holy shit guess what

I found a baby guy it's gonna be great but oh man but you know yeah find that whoops the doodle it's willy nelson collapsed at the courthouse and yeah he's at this is his death scene i do roger roger ebert did have he loved this movie and i agree with him on one thing i kind of need one more beat with the willy nelson thing to make this really work i i like the uh enigmatic he whispers and he said you know and the way that i love the way con delivers like oh he said thank you for letting me out he didn't want to die there you don't know if

That's what he says. You know what I mean? Oh, it's a total lie. Exactly. I love the, but I just sort of need a little, I kind of want a big, I want a big William Nelson scene.

He's game for it. And I mean, like, that's not who man is, et cetera, et cetera. It's not really what this movie is. It's a scene I would like to make this work a little bit more. It's interesting because he like gets the baby

and then he loses his father figure. And it's, he could never bring himself to love anyone as much as he loved Willie Nelson's character here. Nope. Well, yeah. And then the, I mean, part of what you're saying about him maybe lying about what Okla told him,

I think that's really important to the whole movie is, like, the whole thing about Michael Mann is his question is, do these criminals, these assholes, do they have a soul? Like, are they worth caring about? Or like, that's the real question at the center of a lot of his movies. And when, like, I love that prosecuting moment when he starts going in on a family, it's like, you know, family is the most important thing in your life. something sacred about it because

James Conn has this incredible face when he's saying that because he's like at the same time he's like is this guy full of shit but if he is full of shit I'm also kind of full of shit for wanting this all like it's all about what do I actually mean all of this or is it just to make up for everything I lost and like this scene when he's like Oclos over like I don't think he could face whatever

I'm not sure if he heard what Ocla said like it's just what he has to say to make it worth the damn. Yeah. Because the other thing too, right, is like that stuff, if Prosky's lying about it and Khan is lying to himself about it, then he's lying to himself about what he perceives as one of the

only things that may make him a human being. So if you don't have that, then you're just a complete fucking monster. Maybe his last word is, I kind of wish I would have got rid of this ponytail. Honestly, like one of the things, I had two wishes. One, not to die in prison. Two, the second I

out of prison. I was going to get this high and tight a cool fade going on. Well, you know, it's funny because James Kahn's like, oh, you know, you're going to get me in trouble now. I got three girls down in the street waiting for you, you know, whatever it is. And I'd love it if Willie Nelson's just like, hey man,

were you telling the truth about them chicks? Hey, Frank, I've never tried before. Could you give me a marijuana cigarette? Just before I go, I can want to do what it's like. Then we get the Chinese restaurant scene and the, we get the baby and it's awkward when someone asks you what your baby's name is and you say, I don't know.

I don't know. No name yet. No name yet. Haven't named him, but we're definitely going out for Chinese food. We haven't named our kid yet, but we're starving. That's probably like, you know, realistically, it's probably like a two or three, four week old baby. it's super weird to have had a baby for three weeks and I have a name for it.

We're going to go back to the writer's room after this and pitch it back and forth and see if we can get a better one going. Speaking as someone who has two of them, it's really weird to not know. Yeah, yeah, it's tough. That dude at the restaurant should be calling the cops because he leaves for a second and then they have this really sweet moment where, you know, she's like, oh, do you want to name him after Okla? he's like oh cool Oakla's real first name was David and she's like oh David nice name and then the waiter comes back

and he's like yeah by the way the kid's name is David and it's just like all right so first I asked them they said I don't know or no name yet and then I went to the back for a second when I came back with their dessert they were like oh his name's David

yeah I'm calling the cops on these people this is clearly a baby trafficking operation quick question was that you guys have baby dash Oh, I've heard about them. That sounds so cool. So you just, you put your information and you get the baby?

That's amazing. Hey, honey, they use baby dash. Oh, what? All the, ooh, every baby comes with the baby dash stamp on their skin. Oh, I don't like that. Oh, that's all. Oh, you just take a look. You cut that off and you're fine.

It's like scratching off the VIN number, you know? That were too far. Tags on a mattress. The thing about the Chinese restaurant, one thing before we leave it is, It's kind of a nice and almost wholesome scene despite all that. Yeah, totally. Like the guys like David's a good name. And it's almost like Khan's got like a little relief.

Like this life maybe is going to work out. It's a nice moment. It's an example of what, yeah, their life could be like, you know, all things being what they are, like a perfect existence. This is a nice night out for this family. Right. And while Belushi is in L.A., he finds that the keyword is Mexico.

and we are on my friend. Yes, and this is actually where the police rough him up for that last time. Oh, right, right. They put a tracker, you know, they have a tracker on his car, but he swaps it out to a bus to Des Moines, which is a good, good. Yeah, I love that shot too, right? I love the shot of you hear the beeping of the tracking device and the camera's like in a car next to the bus and he zooms in on the luggage carrier like underneath and as the. camera gets closer, the beeping gets louder, and then we sort of go around to the front of the bus, and then he just gets in nice and tight on Des Moines. It's such an awesome

awesome shot. For a director, too, that doesn't have flourishes as mighty as that throughout his movies a lot. It is, that's what makes it, I think, all the more effective. It's so like, whoa, look what he's doing. A big swoop and a Zoom like that. Very, very

cool. I'll say the scene, the scene where they learn. that the, I guess the words can be Mexico, could have used some Steven Tobolowski. Could he use some sneakers, Stephen Tobolowski, you know. Yeah, he decided to

use real bankers to just say Oh, hi Jim, hey, Mexico, and that's it. So, yeah, I'd be not a character. I would have liked some Tobo. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Who else could have been the other guy? Maybe Danny DeVito. No, he's too big. He's too big. I'm fine in the sky.

I, but the one thing about the, so the Mexico part, like, it's like, you know, they're having like, hey Frank, hi, Bob, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, Mexico, yeah, we're in. And he hangs up. So clearly there's a relationship with the company, like, later Frank should be like, Mexico. Oh, I forgot my keys. You know what I mean? Like, why is it? Why are you telling me Mexico at exactly one o'clock in the morning, dude? Exactly. Dude, I, I've thought that most times I watch this movie. It's like, what do you open it up now for? What's going up? Maybe, maybe, I mean, maybe the company thinks like, oh, maybe this is a late-night security guard or something tripped. Right.

Yeah, that could be. Mexico, I got abroad in here. Don't worry. She loves vaults. You're going to hang a tie on the vault. Don't come in. The shot where you see the two dudes

like in this beautiful, almost like the weird end of 2001 bedroom this room kind of looks like. And the dudes are having the little chit-chat. What's awesome is he wants man wants to show like you know this is it this is the fucking money melon this is what we've been working for and what's so awesome is the way that he does that is he dials those dudes down and cranks the tangerine dream so you're just looking at this perfectly framed shot of this safe with just this like swooping wow and it's just drowning out everything like this is the most important thing in this yeah i don't know if we said it enough but this sense soundtrack is fucking amazing. I love Tanger Dream. Only their second score.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. They're first being Sorcerer. Oh, yeah. Sorcerer is a fucking fantastic movie and score as well. And then they come back for The Keep with him. Which I think is a very, very fun movie. I want to rewatch it again. But I really enjoyed the Keep. The Criterion's got a good copy of it. It looks really good on there. Yeah. I saw it, but I saw like a shitty transfer. So if Criterion has like something good, I'm going to rewatch it. You should. It's on their 80s horror bit right now. It's well worth it.

My wife had never, she rewatched all the Michael Man movies. She doesn't, she's like very like three stars on all of them except for collateral she loves. And she was like, I want to be a completist. I'll watch The Keep. And she's like, nope, still kind of bored. The Keep, the problem of the keep is it's not his movie. You know what I mean? A lot of it is just like cut to ribbons and producers came in, et cetera, et cetera.

I would love to know what that actual one looked like, you know what I mean? It's a great concept, and he swings for the fences, but yeah, unfortunately, it doesn't come together necessarily. Is there a long rumored cut somewhere? Yeah, it has more Henry Cavill in it. And actually, they fix that mustache problem. Yeah, exactly. No more lingering shot on the monster's ass in that one scene. So they're going to fucking Los Angeles

They're going to do the night of the job man It's great And he's And you just watch these Do you watch James Con and Jim Belushi Hack through a building If you don't know what a movie is It's James Con and Jim Belushi hacking through a roof

It is fucking great Them cutting through the roof Them cutting through this other pipe To access the lines It's incredible This is the shit you know, Jamel, you were talking about from the beginning of movie, you know, exemplified even more here. The precision with which he cuts this plastic pipe that all of the communications wiring is in looks like he's a dude, some fucking, you know, union workhorse that's done that exact same cut for the last 30 years.

Yeah. Well, yeah. It's so awesome. Yeah. And have the confidence of just like watching fingers going through wires to find the right wire. Like, just to hold on that to allow them to show what expertise looks like on the fly, just like being able to run through something and see the right image. And it tells you, it creates a little game for itself, like for a three second thing, which is like, all right, every time he puts the wire, the pincer on the wire and it goes to 40, it's a phone line. Every time it's to 15, it's an alarm. And you learn that just by saying phone line, phone line. Oh, we got one. Phone line, phone line. You know what I mean?

It's just. And you're kind of at the edge. your seat here. Tom Cruise has talked, I mean, not a lot, but he's talked before how much he loves this movie and that's why he wanted to do collateral so much. It's amazing to me that so many Mission Impossible movies

have him doing the breaking into the roof this way, like literally having to cut like a square out and go down into it. Like it's amazing. The influence of this movie is nuts. There's the great, when he gives the Mexico line over the radio,

which yes, there definitely should have been something. when they you know the systems managers or whatever like you know let the guard down and stuff he goes it's a great line come on we own it and then the music kicks back in oh yeah Mexico my wife kicked me out man I got nowhere else to go I just you know it's got carpeting it's got a chair I got out of Mexico please don't all right we'll take it down good you can get in now just Jesus he's using a bunch of of money as a pillow. I mean, this whole sequence, man, I mean, what do you say? It's like the best robbery scene since proficient.

And it's incredible. I mean, yeah. The amount of gear and shit that they have to haul to the roof of the building and bring down it like these fire suits and this giant like, I don't know what the technical term is, but that giant heated pole to start like burning through the safe, it's incredible. I've been calling it a fire. I think it's called an oxy lance is what I think it is.

It's basically like this enormous pole that you just heat up and it can cut through anything. Didn't that kill Rush Limbaugh? He was popping of like, dude's in a couple oxy lances. Got a little heartburn. I mean, he went down to the Dominican Republic to get an oxy lance. It was right. Oh, no, I'm doing an oxy lance and I lit it now. It's burning up my inside of my belly.

Oh, cut right through my racist belly. Are you going to taste it? No, it's funny about that guy. No one gives a shit about him anymore. No, that's wonderful. He is another dead fat guy like Joey Gags. Yeah, your legacy is you are manure. You are fertilizer.

You were dead. Thank God. Which is, you know, it's kind of like the ultimate awesome thing that could have come out of it. It's like you died and nobody gives a fuck. No one gives a fuck that you died, dude. Awesome. live your life so that at least one person gives a fuck when you die

well you know I'm not going to apologize to them but we're going to get some guff over this one you can blame it on me you can make it to be like listen we had this woke New York Times column this on yes and he's you're

you're infecting us with the woke mind virus as you're speaking Jamel I would hate it if you ever got a racist email I would say if you ever got one I would just I my God I don't know if I'd be able to handle it. Oh, it'd feel terrible. They cut right through this thing.

It's kind of great. It's a two-man job. Him and Belushi are cutting while the other guy has to fucking use a fire extinguisher so they don't all burn to death. Oh, yeah. That's how you know it's serious businessmen. This dude has to be like constantly preventing a huge structure fire from happening while you're cutting through.

I love when they get through. And like that is the end of Kahn's participation, right? like Jim Belushi is the one who goes in, he's getting all the diamonds out or whatever. And Khan, the shot, it's kind of incredible because, like, you could end the movie here where it's like, he may as well have, like, having a cigarette after sex. He's, like, sweating. He's out of breath. You know, he's observing his work, like, just kicking back.

And if you ended the movie right here, yeah, some people would be like, what was going on with Tuesday well than whatever else. But, like, it would be a fitting thing in the sense of, like, it's thief and he's just doing this and like you could I think the view would sort of change to like he's got a taste for it might want to do more or something sure but it could be a perfect place to end the movie and you could also end it on the beach

in the next scene you could play Ico Ico on A and we're having a good time like you know what I mean like we did the thing yay right because the kids there's like a forced ghost of Willie Nelson you did good you did good Frank smoking a force ghost joint on a log

on the beach all the ewalks are there I mean, that's just the thing. That's how you know Michael Man's a genius is there is so many ways you could show triumph after such a thing. Like, literally the guy's like, I want to walk into the, I want to burn a hole and walk into this

safe and they do it. And there's so many ways to show that you've done this. You are triumphant. And you pick James Khan walking shirtless on a beach in like what looks like white like satin pants. And like,

Jim Belushi frolicking in the waves with his belly akimbo. I gotta say they wouldn't they wouldn't let somebody look like

Jim Belushi do that today that'd be a little no a model would have to be his man I gotta tell you I think even like the pants on Khan

like he probably thought shorts were effeminate you know he's like no no I'm wearing pants I'm wearing pants to the beach you're lucky you got him barefoot dude

no I'm not taking off my shoes kind of guy do you think I am Because this happens in Manhunter, too. Michael Mann likes to go to the beach. Does Michael, what, is he, you think he's a book guy at the beach? Is he, is he bringing to Frisbee or what, what are we talking?

He's shooting guns. Yeah, probably, at the ocean specifically. Take that ocean. I do think, though, that's the thing. I think you're right about the shoes thing. I think he might, he like looks around and then takes his shoes off on the beach. Yep, Michael Man. He's just like, I don't want to look too laid back to.

anybody who knows who I am. But he's definitely wearing a button up shirt and slacks. That's no, never a trunk. The trunk has never fucking touched Michael Mann's body. I'll say this about this, just thinking about Michael Mann's other films. As far as like characters

by bodies of water scenes go, this one is probably be most playful of them. Yeah. Like they get much more contemplative, right? Sort of the Manhunter one's definitely sort of like kind of morose. The one in Miami Vice when they're actually just sort of like

on the water in a boat is like much more sort of somber but it's like not this is like kind of playful it's like it is a celebration in a way that these things aren't usually for the characters in its movies it's it's a happy scene with a happy family which does not exist in the Michael man world

like the inside like maybe the early scenes in the insider when it's just him and his family before he gets fired but otherwise like otherwise happy families do not happen in Michael Mann movies. I don't know how happy this is Jim Belushi cripples

his girlfriend in this scene. He tackles this girl like a fucking lineman. I mean it's wild dude like seriously if you were on the gridder and I think there's a fucking flag on the play he decimates this woman. It's incredible and it's kind of a weird like because at first

you think like he's just like he's there with you know Jim Jimmy con and he's like oh we did it what a great score we had yeah it's fantastic and then jimmy con's like oh well you have your fun now we just got word that everything's cooled down we can go back and get the money and collect and everything's like oh you hear that baby and he just like runs after this woman and she's like having a conversation with tuesday well she's got to be like wait what's happening this huge beast is charging at me and she goes down you see balushi go down and his head

comes up, it looks like he, like faceplants in the sand himself. Like, uh, Mike, can we take two on that, man? I'm fucking bleeding here. Cut directly to the hospital. I just got excited as all. I didn't know. You said there's a stress fracture

in her skull? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean. You'd say she's got to be put down. First, my horse, now this. Doctor comes up. Yeah, I see this all the time. Beech shenanigans. that's a shame we keep telling those Chicago boys

and stop tackling their girlfriends when will they listen get a Chicago guy out here I know his girlfriend's going to have a broken neck I just know it I just know it they can't let these boys down the beach look at it beach shenanigans I've been telling the council year after year

there should be signs up no Chicago boys tackling girlfriends on the beach unless life guards are there. Just a big red circle and X through a sausage. That's what I want. That's what I want right there.

So we get back to get the cash and Praski, you knew it was coming, man. He's like, here's the cash part. And Kahn's like, oh, that sounds fucking shitty. And indeed, Praski has put some of the money owed to James Kahn into commercial deals and malls shopping centers in the Midwest and

California and whatever. He is really fucking him. He gives him 90 grand out of 830. That's pretty best. Yeah. Yeah. More than a haircut. That's true. Mall investment or no. Yeah, that's fucking shit. I mean, of all the things to invest

into a mall, get my money out of a fucking mall. Yep. I don't want to subsidize a JC Penny. Well, in 1981, maybe it's a good idea. And then you got to sell all that shit by what 99 or yeah you gotta get it you gotta get out

I mean early yeah the early aughts at the latest man because by then our our mall was a fucking dirt mall oh really oh yeah don't worry don't worry it's called Sam Goody they're gonna be huge anti-any's people are gonna love it look James Con

I don't know what you're mad about this mall's gonna have a fucking circuit city and a whiz in it can you believe that two electronic stores in the same mall. Yeah, I put all your money. Whiz, Walden Books, Panda Express.

I put all your money into Empire Records. Those kids are a little much, but they got a nice record shop over there. It's called a Bath and Body Works. It's for fancy baths. And, you know, the kids love them. It's for 13-year-old boys.

You have to buy their mom's gifts. Solve that problem. But this is the an iconic and again like the movie really tells you what it's about right here where it's like you know it's like what's the problem I get you know put your money in all this stuff problem is my money is in your pocket yeah but based on my labor my exposure the whole thing he goes through it and I mean like and that's the thing too is like it is so much about labor like you see it take he is sweating he sweats his jewel he does you know what I mean

it is it's a physical act I think Praske even says like you should join a labor union and he's like I'm carrying it yeah yeah I love Well, I love, I love this, I love this scene so much. You could totally teach like a whole class on sort of like, you know, like Marxist labor relations, just like using this scene as your basis. Because it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's Frank saying, my labor produces your wealth. Yep. And Praski is saying, no, bitch, I own you. My capital produces your wealth.

And you're going to generate more capital for me. and it's just like this conflict that cannot be resolved except through violence motherfuckers precisely because he's like you know I bought you your house

I fucking own your kid you're leasing him from me you know really terrifying that's when he's about the poor Jim poor Jim Bolushi in the fucking acid

what I love about this scene is that how Praski sets it up too like I mean what you were talking about class earlier Jamel like he sent it like this is your uncle's you know a little bar basement like where you all hang out and how this is a warm place I'm your father remember remember all that we're all we're all

family at starbucks and we're yes and we're you know that's what we do in a family is that you only get $90,000 out of 800 grand it's incredible that he you know robs family into it because yeah whether it's the mafia Starbucks or a not-for-profit film center if they fucking call your staff of family they're fucking lying to you leave now it means nothing

and you should never believe that because those people would not piss on you if you were on fire most times and just and if you're not getting the money you're owed and that's the thing this is too this is he's this is so much about like you are just lucky that I allow you to do this you know what I mean

and he even says like don't worry we got another score coming up in a couple of weeks. I'm like, well, what the fuck's going to happen then, dude? Like, am I fucking stupid? Like, you know what I mean? No way. Well, that's what... That one sounds shitty too, because does he say it's in Florida? Yeah, I love the part where he mentions it and he's just like, you're talking to

me or does someone else walk in this room? That's a great life. Well, that's what he's counting on. He's counting on him, breaking. This is usually where they break. He's like, this is what he's used to. And I remember looking at the fucking time and being, we have 20 minutes left. How are you

going to do this and he does it better than I don't know anybody who's done it better in 20 minutes that set up this fucking problem and then get to the unbelievable conclusion and you know again like just great Jimmy Con

threatening lines my money in 24 hours but you'll be wearing your ass for a hat and fucking great and a great a tagler whoever like the second like con leaves the thing is like I told Didn't I tell you? This guy is dining out.

I mean, he's going to be dead in three hours, but he would be dining out on this forever. And so, I mean, we get to it, right? So Chris Cavan, you're right. 20 minutes, clock's ticking. We've got to solve this. And the way we're going to do it is kill most of the people in the movie. And we're going to start with our fucking friend, Jim Belushi.

Oh, yeah. This is one of the great on-screen deaths of the 1980s. Yep. Yep, there's no other way around it. It's just so perfect. This and the Praski one will get to it. Both just beautiful scenes of death. Well, you got Dennis, you got Dennis Farina with the fucking gun on him.

And he's like, you know, basically kind of a call to John now moment here. Yes, it totally is. Because we're at the car lot. Jimmy Con is looking for Jim Belushi here. Yes. And he's, you know, call for him. Call for him. Call for him.

And he's like, it's a trap. And I mean, like, the perfection. like it's like stagecraft of course it would be a white van it would have to be a white van why because I want to see all of his blood and guts all over in three seconds yep absolutely man

just a shotgunning it is the best you're right Jamel it's one of the best deaths on screen I think it's got even the best shotgun death and you know at me on Twitter tell me better shotgun deaths

this must be the best one it has to I mean I mean I mean the way they shoot it it looks like he's like holes have been blowing into it's really great and twice in this movie they know when they have a great special effect on their hand because they put it in slow mo it happens here and it happens when he blows up the bar both times it's like oh fuck that footage looks good let's let the audience just marinate in that for a few

more seconds if we can slow it down just jim belushi exploding in slow motion this Hawaiian shirt going all over the place oh man i'm watching it right now there's chunks everywhere It's a very chunky, yeah. It's sort of like a medium wide when he like hits the van So you see the blood dripping off of the white van It's perfect. It's lovely.

It's really great. Oh, man. But then they knock, they knock James Kahn out And then we're back wherever the hell we are At the body disposal factor. This is the scariest fucking scene in this. Robert Frosty threatening Kahn in this scene

is like the scariest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It's kind of awesome because there's a. similar-ish feeling monologue. Well, like, it's not similar, but the threat is the same, but it's much more comical in untouchables when De Niro's doing the whole, like,

I want him dead, I want his family dead, I want his house, Bernard the guy. And it's like, it's a cartoon character performance, and it's funny. But it's a great movie. Don't give me right, but it's much funnierer than here. Like, I'm not terrified of Robert De Niro in that movie. I'm fucking incredibly terrified of Robert

Pros. I mean, the line alone of, I'll whack out your whole family. People will be eating them for lunch tomorrow in their wimpy burgers and not know it. And it's the way that Poski speaks, too. It's the grandpawness of the way, like, you know, being your wimpy burgers. Like, the mumbleness of it. I mean, the specificity of eating them in their wimpy burgers means that has happened before. And it's something that he's done.

Yep. They called out, they called out the Prossi. That's the standard package. You know, most fast food franchises are probably in bed with the mafia or some of them. And I'm sure you've, we've all probably eaten the little people. Yeah, we've all, we've eaten the veto. We've eaten the, we'll just remember Bruce Willis and a fast food nation, you know, just cook the meat. It's fine.

It'll burn off. All the bad stuff burns off, baby. I guess that's true. And the way they're doing this whole threatening monologue, too, is this awesome shot. because Khan is on the ground and what we're looking at is Praski looking down to the camera but he's upside down and it just makes it all the more disorienting

and terrifying and the end of this scene culminates in back to work Frank and just Jim Belushi getting dropped in a acid hot it's kind of awesome because it's a great way to use an unknown actor too like that makes I mean I mean Proscis Proscue's Proscue we know him

from Mrs. Doubtfire and so on and so forth from our generation but like being in the theater again, to your point, the untouchables, like, that's De Niro and a bald cap or whatever it is. You know what I mean? I know who that guy is. This is Robert Proske. I'm like, maybe that's what this guy is all about.

Like, you don't know. You do not know. Well, especially when, you know, he's, you know, Michael Mann is going all fucking Italians in post-war Italy making movies, like using real people. You know what I mean? Like, so if the one guy, the crooked cop was a criminal, like clearly Robert Prosky must have been some sort of scumbag.

And then you're like, No, he's just an amazing actor, you know. And just the way that they start this with him upside down like that in the shot. Like the fact that like all this, because it's, it's, it's, it's, he's revealed like the what he was worried about in that scene. When can I get, I can get you a baby. You worried about baby? When he was worried about like, is this family shit all for show? It is.

It is. Yeah. It's, it's. And now he. And that's, that's, that explains exactly. what James Kahn is about to do to him. Yep. Easiest gig in this movie is Joseph,

the not Michael Douglas guy. He gets this phone call. Middle of the night from Jimmy Kahn, Joseph, get over here right away. You're going on a trip. And then he's explaining to Tuesday Weld, like, all right, listen, it's all over with. It's all going to hell tonight.

You've got to get out of here. You're going to go with Joseph. Here's a box of $410,000. For this first month of just living with you, you will give Joseph $20,000. For the second month of Joseph living with you, $25,000. Third month, 30 grit.

This guy is packing it in, just hiding this lady away. And we never see them again in the movie so we don't know, you know, what happens, but pretty sweet gig, in theory, if you can get it. Meanwhile, you know, you cut to Joseph, he just comes into his apartment with his mother. He's like, my, you know, I've never shown you

in my apartment before. Here it is. your son's done I gotta go I gotta go on a trip I'll never see you no yeah ma I got I had this wonderful

second date with this lady down the street oh let me just get that okay I'm gonna have to break up with her and I'm never gonna see you again goodbye it is that life you know that Mike the cleaner life

of like you gotta drop everything and you'll be gone for 12 months but it's also just so psychotic the way con goes to just uncare and it would just take two seconds to say the words we are in danger.

That's all it takes, you know what I mean? I care about you. We are in danger. The only way I can protect you is he doesn't do that. He pulls the plug again. He says,

we're done. He's going into that prison mentality, you know, because what Praski does to him there is like what happened in prison. They saw something happen, something terrible happened. So he's going into that mode

of nothing fucking matters. Yes. And the only way to do that is to get rid of her. which is incredible and like and it's just like she goes and like they're you know we'll talk about the ending which is incredible but like there is no

indication that they get back to you there's no indication that this is temporary no way yeah they don't no no there's just no like and also bad to imagine being like Frank in the house and the kid and Tuesday Wells are leaving and the kid is screaming da da

da da da and like you just imagine frank and that had to be the one word he figured out. That had to be the one he figured out was the da-da. God damn the same name he's going to be calling some dude Jeff seven years from now that marries his mother.

So yeah, he blows up the fucking house. Great effect here. Kind of inconsiderate to these neighbors I have to say blowing up this house. He's clearly in like a crowded suburban sprawl thing, right? I know you've got nothing to love for, but you know, I just got my fucking

lawn the way I liked it. How about that? Yep. Oh, and that explosion. Yeah, that cracked the foundation of my in-ground pool we put in last summer. Well, that's what's kind of incredible about it, right? It is like, it is kind of everything he's always wanted to do. Like, blow up a suburban

like, fuck the suburbs. I fucking hate him. Blow it up. I hate this shit. Like, it is kind of what he wants to do, but he also wanted to be the other guy. And it's not yet. Hi, Frank. I know you burned down your job, but I have to be in mine in nine in the morning. Let's keep it down with the explosions.

Please, thanks so much. You think this is one of those deals where, like, man found some sort of, like, street they were going to demolish or did be, like, buy a house just to blow it up? Ooh. Yeah, I wonder if you flip on that commentary that the criterion

disc is at that scene. Maybe he says what's going on. What I read was, it was in a neighborhood, they built like a false front to blow up, but the explosion was too big, and it did damage. several houses like oh well you know

you'll just you know put a little false front that'll be fine and the explosion is way too much and it's like you're blowing up a house man that false front's only going to do so much you're still exploding a structure it is great though I mean similarly though you think these folks

you know working hard at the green mill cocktail lounge they're getting any kind of envelope from Frank a week from now that's like sorry I blew up your place of employment I just like that Frank just apparently, I mean, he just has this like, I guess, in a storage facility, just sort of like, you know, in case you got to blow up everything you own. I have plastic explosives and detonators ready to go. Well, I had a question for the prop department for when he blows up the bar because I was looking at it, it really looks like he's just walking in there with a handful of grenades. Like, if you look at the device that they made or whatever, it looks like he's just holding four grenades that are taped together.

Well, it would be great. I mean, Tandrine Dream just got done with sorcery. He's just got a bunch of dynamite, like, panelling into the fucking place and lights it up. Another thing, he does not give a check to the back room. I mean, like, this is a, this is a dank place. Someone might be sleeping it off somewhere. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Dude, Gary the bartender, maybe fighting with the misses. He's got to sleep in the back room. Well, you know, nothing matters, dude. You just separate yourself from all that. that's true. Yeah, I mean, it's just it. You don't worry about the damage done to the porno theater on your left and the shoe store on your right. You don't care about that stuff.

You're just trying to destroy your life. Oh, you're breaking my heart. Chris, A, you blew up my favorite bar and B, my perno theater's on fire. What am I supposed to do tomorrow? I had a whole Sunday plan. And then he burns the car lot, and this is where we get the moment where he takes that

family collage of his, crumbles it up and tosses it out. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's fucking heartbreaking. I'll tell you what is also heartbreaking is there is a much worse movie that kind of rips off this part

a little bit and I always confuse the scene in that movie with this and so I'm watching this movie and I'm like so you're seeing all the cars blowing up in succession right? Oh, nope. That was the John Travolta Punisher movie and I fucking fall for it

every time because the end of that movie is the car's dragon Travolta through the lot and he's blowing up the cars like one by one. And in this movie, like, he's got a bunch of the cars on fire, but I feel like you could probably salvage this car a lot. Like, it doesn't look like he blows up the office. People still may have their jobs here in the morning. Possibly. I mean, but all, I think most of the dynamite got used on the house. That seemed like the biggest job. I think the... Well, because he's throwing gasoline all over that car, so I think he's fresh out of TNT. Yeah, I think

it's done. We got to get four guys in Detroit to bring nitro glycerin in Chicago. Hell yeah, just keep remaking that story Different dangerous places They have to take easily explodeable material This shaky fucking thing The shaky truck going down lower Wacker Drive with dynamite Totally

They should have done it for the Blues Brothers The conclusion of that movie I think this speaks to Prosske's Arrogance here But like, okay, so this guy threatens you in your own home And like you threaten you kill his best friend and threaten him back and you clearly like

you get all these guys on your house wouldn't you be like can I get one guy on him just to just just see where he's going exactly keep an eye on him no and he this is this is what this movie finally does become the home invasion film because he finally does the home invasion he said he never wanted to do

and you know what for your first home invasion Frank it's like a B plus really good job work buddy this is great job yeah this is great too this we get more of that tactical walking with the gun. Yes. I love a taglia's eating this

fucking huge piece of cake and then he's like, I'm going to get a glass of milk. You want a huge glass of milk old man? Just like these two old ugly dudes talking about drinking a glass of milk at like 12.30 at night. Well, that's what I love about that moment.

He's like, it's clearly that he has gotten him a glass of milk before. They have been hanging out reading newspapers together and drinking milk and eating cake. for many, many, many years, it seemed. You want to be 50 years old and drinking milk? Do you want to do that? Yeah.

Dude, I can barely do it in 30. I can't imagine being Robert Prowski just chugging a huge glass of milk. It's like whatever, I very rarely in a Starbucks these days, sometimes I'm in one, travel, and I see someone order like a frappuccino, like a venty frappuccino.

And I'm like, don't do that a shit after that. You're 45. you're having a milkshake for breakfast That's part of the Wages of fear, dude That is nitrogluster And you're putting in that belly Well, yeah

I mean, I guess Well, Jabel, to be fair, there's this one lady in this house That looks like she's giving up hope I don't know if it's supposed to be Proske's wife or what I think it's his wife And she's seen it all before

And it's like, oh, are you coming for this dude? Do it. Well, and also, whatever fucking like rotten eggs fucking is flying out his ass every fucking five minutes she is used to it now it is now the potpourri of the house

because he's drinking milk all the time and fucking coffee and shit dude the shot of that lady just looking at James Kahn and then looking back to fucking Carson or whatever was on the TV damn dude it's awesome it's just a real like finally

he beats the shit out of a taglia knocks him out with the milk and then pistol whip him a couple times and now Praski is missing and now he's going up looking for him and to Aaron Eric, you love this scene. You love the game. I want to hear you say. Well, okay, so like Praski's kind of hiding behind this bookcase and he sees James Kahn coming around the corner, but he's not quick enough on the draw. And we get this old dude getting two bullets in the gut and going down. And then that one last try at pulling that gun and just getting that head shot.

it is a beautiful out of the back of the head splatter. It's gorgeous. And he screams like Soron got the fucking one ring in Mount Doom like he might as well start morphing into other people as he's dying like it is such an enormous death for this dude and I love it. He just turns into Brad Duriff

all of a sudden. With that, see, I like how when the bullet hits them, the frame kind of pauses for a split second. Yes. Yes. Yep. Those are awesome. Those little free. Because again, that's like, take that snapshot of this fucking awesome violence in this movie. Remember it forever. We'll even stop the movie for a brief second so you can take a mental photograph. It's so great. I would have liked to have gotten two shots in the belly and just milk starts pouring out. Oh, no. Ew. It transforms into a wimpy burger. a taglia dude so when jimmy con gets the drop on him it's when a taglia is getting that milk and dude a taglia drinking out of the carton which whatever but he just puts the carton back in the fridge still open they're lucky they fucking die because if not man you're drinking spoiled milk tomorrow yeah it's disgusting could you get this curdled milk out here i'm just killing people in your house but i can't stand girl milk. The other thing with Prasky

dude, when he gets that headshot, he definitely does a little like, like his tongue kind of comes out. It's really that dude is dying. It's awesome. And then, I mean, you think it's done then, but of course, no, it's attack on a Taglia time

out in the front yard and Farina. Yes. He gets the shot off on him, right? Yeah. Farina's the one who gets him in the gut. Yeah. Oh, man. And this is hilarious looking Farina, man, because he's like, He's not the distinguished older gentleman we remember him as. He's got like real poofy, curly hair, fucking Super Mario mustache.

He's a little puffier, you know, just kind of like baby face. Earlier in the film, I didn't recognize him immediately. By this point, I had. And then when the rewatch, I was soaking up all that farina, you know, it's nice. But yeah, there's just kind of a nice little shootout here. He gets Frank and, you know, Khan falls down. And then, yeah, when he does get the shot off, though, and Farina's just falling into these bushes in slow motion,

another good slow-mo violence move. I think we do have some freeze frames out here, too. When we're getting some bullet impacts, which is just great. There's a third guy that gets gunned down, like, immediately. When a taglia goes down, there is some, like, slow motion stuff. But there's also some really interesting streetlight effect going on. It's like this unearthly blue that the tint on them is just so fascinating. to look at. I rewind it like three times. Which I mean that use of the blue is interesting because like, you know, in just a few seconds after Frank gets up and starts walking down the sidewalk, bam, you get that awesome blue funted thief title card again. I don't know if we mentioned it yet or we might have. But another great thing about this film in the way it looks is the wetted down streets everywhere. Yes. Yes. Yep. That will do. I mean, anytime you see that in a movie where it's like actually help.

it's a sign of like a cinematographer that knows what's up it's like quick just wet the street down it's gonna look awesome trust me and you know nine times out of ten it totally does oh i mean also i mean michael man is a guy who's like he works and like he has period like blue he this is part of a blue like heat is also very blue like everything about this like even the diner scene is tinted blue oh isn't the insider pretty blue as well inside but but and then he moves on to red like because not insider what the fuck am I talking about

Ali and the one I'm blanking on the one that comes right after it but those are more red those are like red colored was collateral right after yes yeah yeah yeah those are much more red colored

and much more like yellows and stuff like that he actually thinks about his color coding is very different per period yeah yeah and so you know this is interesting you know because Steve you were asking earlier in the episode, like, you know, if anyone thinks that they get pecked together, I think

what's cool about the movie is, I mean, it's not even totally confirmed Frank's going to make it down the sidewalk. I mean, he is shot in the gut, he's bleeding. No, he has a bullproof vest. But there's blood all over it, though. I think it's, it's like an elbow shot. So, yeah, I think it's, and you know, yeah, he does walk away.

I've always left it, you know, up to interpretation. I don't think that he's... Yeah, I think the only thing we're supposed to take away from that is that Frank is free. That's what that. He's free. Yeah. One way or another, whether he's, you know, if he can get to a bus, he's free or if he drops dead. Yeah. He's also free. He's free from. But he's also like sadly back at zero. You know what I mean? Like that's the other way to look at it too. And I mean, like, yes. Apparently like James Kahn said that he believes that Frank would is the kind of guy that would stop at nothing to get back when he lost. But I mean, like, is that really likely going to happen? You know what I mean? Like can you get that stuff? back. It's really fascinating to me just

to end it on this triumph. And the score is pretty triumphant too. That's true. The score we get more metal than like Cynthia. It's very guitar here. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think I mean it makes sense that James Kahn would want this character to go on more like then Michael

Man would just be like, no, he's probably dead. I'll be honest. He's probably straight up dead. No, I'm not going to be writing thief too. No, no, I will not be doing that. I'm sorry. But that is Michael Mann's Thief from 1981. We'll go around here, final thoughts and recommendations. And we'll start with our guest this week, Jamel, final thoughts about Thief? I mean, I think this is a great, I think this is a great movie.

I think this is like one of the, it's like one of the great feature debuts from a director, like, at least in the modern era. And it's just a joy to watch. Every time I watch this movie, I feel compelled to tell everyone around me that, you know, if they've never seen it, they got to see it. I think it's like politically. a really interesting movie and like not politically interesting in that it's it's both sort of blump but it's not didactic at all.

It's like it's very much it's a it has a kind of sophisticated politics and I would like personally makes me want to like just like talk to Michael Mann about his politics and then talk and talk to him about that stuff but I think this is a great

movie. It looks incredible. The criterion this that came out a couple years ago that I mentioned looks amazing. And My understanding is that that was one of the... Sometimes criterion does restoration sort of independently. Like, they buy the rights and they do it. Sometimes they do it in collaboration with the director. And I think this is the latter.

I think man actually had a part to play in this restoration. And the film looks... I mean, it looks amazing. So, yeah, beef. It rules. Chris Cabin. Absolutely, it rules. It's the best.

I've... So rarely do you. you see someone who like establishes their style so quickly and in such an assured way and then goes about expanding on it like a lot of the problem with why I didn't immediately take to later a man's right off the bat was because I kept on wanting him to make more movies like Thief in Heat because they are so perfect like they are hard to argue with. So something like Black Hat and Miami Vice, which are incredible but are very different. I like and our expansions of what of the ideas he has in all these movies already

you know it's bewildering to me that we get to see this like the only other director I think of who also I know is a Michael man nut job is Wes Anderson who does something similar where the like Rushmore to me is like crystal imperfect and then he just keeps on expanding from there and that's a similar feeling I got from him but this is perfect it's a beautiful movie James Kahn, the God. An unfucking believable performance. Everything. I can't stop pouring out compliments.

Eric Siska. Oh, yes. Chris, thanks for bringing up Black Hat. I think it's a very underrated movie. I really love that one as well. But this, I believe, is my favorite Michael Mann. I think it's fucking perfect. And if you haven't seen it, you probably should have before you listen to this.

But go watch it anyway. Steve. Yeah, I mean, not to I'm not going to say more man stuff even though I could. I do some man stuff. Mancast. We're talking man stuff today.

Welcome back to man. Oh, my God. A bro podcast about Michael man called Man stuff. Oh, man. This episode's about Michael Man and putting that toilet seat up. Yeah, man. Welcome back to the. Man Cave double

N and we're all wearing gray suits with white shirts that are open down to the third button man. We've got the man himself Michael Mann in time. He's going to tell us where's the best place to get nachos in Chicago. On this episode of the Man show, Michael Man's going to shoot a

blank right in front of our ears. Which is I'm pretty sure I think he's probably done this one. Oh yeah. And he's smiled the whole time. Oh, dude, it's great this weekend. I got tickets from me my girlfriend to go on a trip that we're never going to go on. It's the man show. No, I think James Conn is fantastic

in this and I mean, he did just go away this year. I think the gambler holds up really well if you're looking for other James Khan stuff. I want to check out Rollerball. He was a really interesting actor. I mean, like, he might not have been a good person. I don't know. You could say what do you want. I don't care about that. I do think that as an actor, he had this

real like hyper masculinity but like he also knew how to act it wasn't just tough guy shit like that's what's so great about this movie is like you see him break a couple of times you see his mouth twitch in ways and his eyes kind of go

there's stuff going on where there's real vulnerability there and like there's a real lived in experience that he's able to get to especially in this film and he's just fantastic guy so and Michael man rules man welcome back to the main cast

on this episode we're talking about collateral and how Jada Pinkett Smith's character should have been nicer to Jamie Fox. Yeah, no, I love this movie. I might take a lot of heat for this, but I think it's my favorite Michael Mann movie. I want to say a couple things. One other Chicago legend we didn't point out that appears in the movie,

a real blink and you miss it situation, when James Conn is leaving the car lot for the first time in the movie and those mechanics, like the one guy's like, hey boss and the three mechanics wave. One of those mechanics, none other than Del Close. Oh, that's where he was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, which is weird. It's amazing because I just rewatched the blob remake.

Oh, where he's the preacher or whatever? Yeah, just the other night I showed it to my wife. And yeah, I was looking at him. I couldn't even notice him in that scene at all. Yeah, I think it's like back as to the camera through most of it. But I did want to point out because we're talking about how beautiful this movie is the The D.P. was a fellow named Donald E. Thorin. He's since passed away. But while, where this was man's, you know, theatrical feature debut, it was this dude's first movie that he lensed and kind of wound up becoming like a weird, just sort of like workhorse DP.

I mean, list off some of these creds here. After this, he goes the next year, an officer and a gentleman. This dude also shot Purple Rain, the Golden Child, Midnight Run, Troop Beverly Hill. collision course Tango and Cash scent of a woman undercover blues Little Big League Boys on the side

Ace Ventura 2 First Wives Club Nothing to lose Speaking of comedies here Oh and Mickey Blue Eyes Dudley do right Here's all his comedies And then his last two movies

The 2000 Shaft And then 2003's head of state With Chris Rock You know what 2000 shaft Not a good movie It does look pretty good It does

And Tango and Cash looks way better and has any reason to look. It looks absolutely great. Absolutely. So very cool that that guy also went on to make a bunch of stuff that feels nothing like thief at all. But it's great and see it.

See it even if you haven't and you heard us talk all over it because of a bunch of stuff we didn't get to. And really like it's a movie to be experienced. You can't just read summaries about it. But that's going to do it for this episode We Love Movies. Jamel, thanks so much for always coming on, man.

And obviously, like, people can find you in the New York Times, but tell folks where they can find unclear and present danger and what that shows about. Sure. So unclear and present danger. It's a podcast for me, my friend John Gans, who is a writer writing a book on the American politics in early 1990s. We watched the political and military thrillers of the 90s and talk about them. We try to kind of historicize the movie, talk about the contacts, pull out any kind of larger political themes. I'm not really sure when this episode here is airing, but recent movies we've done are some obscure things like white sands, a kind of

like middling thrillers starring Defoe. We just did an episode on the firm, the John Grisham adaptation. Hell yeah. Which is a wonderful movie. And speaking of me being stupid, there's a scene in that movie where Tom Cruise is running

through a building and he like runs past an old lady and he like runs around her. I were directing that movie. He would have run directly into that woman. Knock her right down. Definitely. More stupid slapstick and everything. So that's sort of the whole conceit of the show.

People seem to like it. People like conversations. And you can find that wherever podcasts are distributed. Awesome. You know, open invite, man. you got to share hair anytime you want to come back. It's always a blast to having you on. Thank you for having me.

It's always a pleasure. Not very many places where I can indulge my love of bodily fluid jokes. Yeah. Hell yeah. Go off, sir. I got, I said, I said something a little on Cuth on Twitter recently and one of my, one of my, one of my, one of the people at the time, just like, you got to cut that stuff out. Oh, uh-oh. Well, you can come here

to come around the back of the high schools where we're smoking cigarettes out by the chain being dirty. Well, that's going to do it for this episode. All month long, we are doing We Love Movies episodes here on the main feed, which means on patreon.com slash we hate movies. We're flipping the script.

There is a patrons-only we hate movies episode coming out this month on what is that, Steve? It's Hannibal, starring Anthony Hopkins, Gary Oldman, in one of his most insane performances. You got the late Great Litt Realeota puttering around. It's just...

Julianne Moore trying to break away from the Jody Foster performance to no avail. This will be interesting because this was a movie that for years I said was really good championed this movie when it came out, saw it in the theaters. Literally had a teacher sit me down and go, explain to me why you think this is a good movie. So I guess we will see how wrong I was. 20 plus years ago. We'll have to see. But that is going on on Patreon. What else are we doing this month as far as like the WLM

infused Patreon offerings? What's going on on animation damnation? We brought my wife, Jen K, on to talk about Nightmare before Christmas, which is a full-length episode on a full-length movie. We had a lot of fun with that. Eric, we've got a Nexus

that's pretty exciting. Yes, we are talking about Star Trek, the motion picture, finally, getting to it. I love that movie so much. He is such a beautiful movie. Another very much underrated movie and we had a lot of fun with that. Jamel, you were saying you always tell people like you should see Thief. Every time I rewatch Star Trek the motion picture I tell at least

like six people go out, watch this movie and tell six other people to watch it too. I saw it, you know, the first time I saw it, obviously like its reputation had already been a thing but I was just sort of like bewildered by the reputation and I was like why don't people like this thing it's awesome yeah yeah I don't get it we try to get to the bottom of it on that nexus episode I guess we'll see but on this feed

the show continues Steve Sadek what we love movies piece of film are we talking about next time hey folks so right here was where Steve was saying the title of next week's exciting movie we'll be talking about but unfortunately we had to switch some stuff around and what he was about

to tell you is indeed the wrong title. So just for your edification, just in case you want to watch ahead or whatever, just or to prepare yourself mentally next week's episode is the Royal Tenenbounds. That's right. Wes Anderson's

2001 classic The Royal Tenenbounds. Quite possibly one of the finest Gene Hackman performances ever given. So until next week where we're talking about one of our all time faves. I'm Andrew Jupin. Steven Siddak. Eric Siska.

Chris Cabin. Jimal Bowie. Take it easy.