We Hate Movies - S14 Ep720: Saw X

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

“Poor Beethoven and Droopy are never gonna get high again!” - Chris, on the crooked veterinarian in this movie On this week’s episode, we’re ending our survey of some of last year’s biggest stinkers with a real wild one on the [EDITOR’S NOTE: Not too terrible! - Andrew] ninth sequel in this most miserable film franchise, Saw X! How fun is it to see John Kramer actually walking around the room while his traps are being executed? How is no one noticing Amanda running through that dance club with the Pig Mask get-up on? Who signs their last will and testament at a blustery, outside cafe? How funny is it to have Jigsaw shopping at a crummy liquor store? And how many sequels can they squeeze in between all these other sequels? PLUS: Jigsaw gives Letterboxd his Top Four! Saw X stars Tobin Bell, Shawnee Smith, Synnøve Macody Lund, Renata Vaca, Joshua Okamoto, Octavio Hinojosa, Paulette Hernandez, Jorge Briseño, Costas Mandylor, Michael Beach, and Steven Brand as Parker Sears; directed by Kevin Greutert. This episode is brought to you in part by Rocket Money! Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney dot com slash WHM. That's RocketMoney dot com slash WHM. RocketMoney dot com slash WHM! Be sure to catch us THIS THURSDAY, February 1, at 9pm/est as we chat LIVE about THE FLASH! We’ll also be doing a post-show hang where we’ll be answering audience questions live! Can’t make the show this Thursday night? We got you covered! Show will be available for a full SEVEN DAYS after the broadcast! We’re gonna be heading south this spring, gang! Catch us in Atlanta, Houston and Austin in just a few months! Click through here and snag your tix now! It’s our first time in ATL in SEVEN years, first time in SIX years for Austin, and our FIRST TIME EVER in Houston! We def wanna make a splash, so come on through—we wanna see you there! Want more WHM? Join our Patreon fam today and instantly unlock hours and hours of exclusive bonus content, including Ad-Free WHM Prime at the $8 level and up! Make the WHM Merch Store your one-stop shop for all your We Hate Movies needs! Including new Polish Decoy, ‘Jack Kirby’, and Forrest the Universal Soldier designs!

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Hey, I did it. Pretty cool, eh, Ernest Borgne? Cool, man. Woo-hoo! This week on the show, it's the age-old tale of a boomer getting brain-pilled by lies on the internet. It's Saw X. I'm Andrew Kramer. Eric Soska X.

Chris Cabin. And we hate movies. Hello everyone. Welcome to We Hate Movies. Thank you for tuning into the program, as always. If you're new to the show and finding us because you're a big Saw fan, we're a comedy show where we take a movie and kind of just poke fun at it a little bit. And that's right. Saw X is up this week from last year, directed by Kevin. Grutter or maybe Grutter, Griter. I don't know. Grutter. Grutter. We got the Gruder. We got the Gruder. We got the Grutter on the saw this time. We got, we got him man in the fucking blade. McGruder. Saw Maestro, right? He was an editor and he directed some of the other films. Oh, they're keeping in the family, huh? Oh, yeah. I think, well, this, you know what it is, Chris Cabman. It's like, it's a 10th movie in a franchise. You're not looking to outsource this shit. It's like, all right, who wants to do this one? Who drew the short? Who else is emotionally, you know, invested in this already

and is going to maybe do this for a little less than we would normally ask in the James Wan years? Yeah, I should get out in front and say, I don't hate this movie and I do think it's the second best saw movie of all. You know, I think I agree with you because it took them 10 movies to find like motive for the killings. I think if I was thinking normally, I would probably agree with that assessment because it is, it is like probably the second best directed of the whole bunch. I kind of give

the first one more credit than it deserves because it is the first one and because James Juan is there. What's his name? Lee Wynnell gets going from that. There's quite a lot there. I appreciate that it happened more than I actually liked the movie. But I see its value. And then jigsaw, I think, is genuinely well-directed. This one is just under that, but I still hate it. And the reasoning is very, very simple for me. I just find this so cynical. Like, I find this more cynical than almost, and not just like what is, you know, all saws

are cynical, but like, the actual, like, curb into like, well, you know, maybe we give John Kramer a little bit more credit than he already has. Maybe he's not that bad of a guy, okay? Well, you know, and it's kind of funny, Chris. I mean, I totally hear you. And I had, because I was thinking about your criticisms of this movie this morning when I was rewatching it. And by the way, when the sun is shining and it's 9 a.m. And you're watching Saw X.

Boy, I was doing some real reevaluating of my existence. But I was thinking about your criticisms of it. I think what's kind of interesting is like, you're totally right. But also, yes, this is the first time. we see this kind of action with John Kramer, but only because this is also the first time in 10 movies where they've put him in that kind of a position. So, like, I don't know, maybe he would have been doing this the whole time

if these were movies where, like, he was present more and he was actually watching the traps be executed and this, that, and the other thing. But maybe we would have seen this lighter side. That's John Kramer. Possible, but, like, it's not an alternate universe. happens in between movies that already existed and we know how this all ends like it's like that the idea here and it's a from a marketing standpoint i get it completely especially from a

like we got to break out of the cycle kind of idea and like while also keeping our star i i get why they did this but like to me it's so ridiculous to put so much fucking you know what has dragged down all these movies is the constant like connecting of the other fucking movies and the backstories and all this and this movie's like hey fuck that like honestly no it's like i know what yes it is but it's been like the whole movie has just been chugging along and like belching dust for fucking years because it keeps doing it and then it's like well finally what you know what finally yeah we'll do it and we're going to do it we're going to set it right in the middle of the other movies suggesting like literally to me it suggests a alternate

universe of the John Kramer universe. Right. Because this is just such like bullshit, like nice guy bullshit. I'm like, he wasn't a nice guy when we see the his backstory before he even became. Well, he's kind of

a piece of shit then. That's actually kind of true. But he was trying to make a health clinic. We're making a health clinic. So they're in those back story of John Kramer, there is sort of a attempt at, I guess helping people in some way. But he keeps on telling his

his sainted, his sainted wife past wife, ex-wife, ex-wife, I guess now. Jill saw, please. Jill saw. Jill saw. She got door pushed. Whenever she's working there, he's like, you know, you should think about maybe leaving that place. It's not exactly safe for you in the baby. Like, he

immediately, even if he put funding into it, he's immediately like, no, it's not, it's not dangerous because I saw a brown person walking in there. And like, I just don't get why you're, like, other than just to save the franchise, I don't see why you do this kind of complete swer. Chris, it reinvigorates the franchise because you take Saw on the road, you know? I would like more Saw Travelog movies, sort of like the trip or the trip to Greece.

Alexander Payne's, Alexander Payne's Saw 11. Yeah. Yeah, that's right, Amanda. We're going to go to Greece and we're going to sit down at all these nice restaurants and we're just kind of going to improv for a little bit and eventually we're going to find one of the members of the serving team and we're going to put some traps on him. Here's my Michael Kane impression. You weren't supposed to blow the bloody doors off. Was that good? Was that good? Did it sound like him? Have you ever seen a fish called Wanda? Wonderful film. Can I get more squid here? hey jigsaw this is samantha from letterbox what's your top four oh god fish called wanda definitely

when harry met sally for sure oh god when she when she's like i hate you harry i hate you boy i just laugh and cry at the same time um i know it's you're good you're gonna laugh a little bit the iron giant i mean it just gets me every time just a big old the tears The eyes just well up, and I cannot, the connection to a machine, the way I feel that, you know, I feel that in my heart, connection to a jolly machine that rips a person's face off. And then, of course, the Suprudeau film, you know, inspired me as a boy. It's a short, I know, but I'm sneaking it in. It was a toss-up between Zapruder film and Pinocchio. What with all the puppet, puppet shit going on that movie?

The Roberto Benini version, by the way. Oh, my God. John Kramer would be great setting up that island for what was it, misfit boys or what was that? Oh man. That donkey island? Yeah, donkey island. Oh, hey there, little

boy, if you don't pass this test, you're turning into a donkey. I made an entire metal whale that eats children. I like this, turn into a donkey, like we get magical traps now, you know? Yeah, totally. I've been studying the dark arts, of course

Amanda. But then you do have to watch at least 30 minutes in the film of him drawing the schematics and like getting very detailed about it. Because you have to remember he's not stupid. He's very smart. He always a genius. Of course he is. Even though he's done like the stupidest

shit in the world into and including this film. Like I actually actually I meant to be water boarded with blood. That was part of my plan. I got it. That's how I get off. Yeah. Blood boarded.

complete moron and no but like he's a civil engineer he's an architect so he's very smart everybody it's not that he's stupid and falls for it constantly I mean this is yeah go ahead I got a question about the timeline you know while we're setting up this

new alternate universe you're calling it Chris Saul one came out in 2004 was that not set in 2004 because under goofs on IMDB yes it says that this film is set in 2001.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on there. I kind of always assumed that that first saw was 2004, but I think what you got to do here is we're pulling details probably from some of them later sequels where shit's really convoluted. And maybe somewhere in there, they mentioned like, oh, back when Danny Glover found that dude in the bathroom in 2001 or whatever the fuck. But Danny Glover gets killed that movie. I did look at it is.

Apparently they said that, like the Wikipedia said that Saw 1 was written in 2001. So maybe they were, it was supposed to be set then? I don't really know. But the goofs here on IMDB are so fucking funny. It's like set in 2001, John Kramer has a Gmail account. Gmail didn't exist in 2004. He's offered this tequila that didn't exist yet. It's, it goes on and on.

It's a lot of that stuff. Dude, the goofs are pretty thorough. I have to say, we're talking about like cell phone models also like, Oh, so-and-so, like the woman who plays Cecilia has this Motorola phone that didn't come around until 2004. I appreciate the lack of life a person must have to get them deets up on the IMDB. Like real stunning wastes of time.

Really appreciate it. Oh, yeah. If you don't have hobbies and you are just like watching these things with like a pen and pencil and like pausing your 4K of Saw X to fucking find the little details to make it make sense. Like that is just a sad existence I'm sorry for you if you are that person I don't mean to hit your existence

even more than already happened clearly But someone listening is like hey I'm sorry I added those And like I'm literally here with a pen and paper With my saw X notes I kind of feel like that as well I'm close to it close I'm very close

But now 2001 now apparently The sequel to this is supposedly going to be a direct sequel from the events of this film hopefully John Kramer sees the towers go down and the next one, man, is him making gadgets against Al-Qaeda or something. Oh, yeah. Hello, Sama. I want to play a game. You know, someone tells me you like Seinfeld DVDs. You know what? Get Sam Rockwell back as Bush and like see him get Kramer out there. What movie was he doing Bush? In Vice. He's a, oh, sure. That movie is terrible. I went

back to that movie. You forget how fucking bad it is. No, I didn't. It's so much worse than you can either, like, consent. He tries every fucking idea he ever had. Adam McKay, you mean? Yeah, Adam McKay just throws everything at the wall in that movie and none of it sticks. I just love that one shot of, you know, big old fat Christian Bale looking down at the guy that fell off the telephone pole or something. Oh, right.

That's all I remember from the movie. The only good stuff about, oh, now we're talking about it's way too much. That's okay. In the early scenes when they have Dick Cheney, like they actually dramatize. the fact that Dick Cheney, when he was younger, was a piece of fucking shit. Like, drunk all the time. And how to sell.

Starting fights all the fucking time. Oh, yeah. It's just an absolute hillbilly piece of shit. And like, hellbilly. They actually give like some of that, some dramatization before they get into all this shit. But once the shit starts, it's bad. It's real fucking bad.

See, Chris, vice is on our minds because a vice is sort of like a saw trap, right? It is. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, very true. So we start this movie and like, God bless it, we're back to the rusty ass piece of shit Lionsgate logo. That gets everybody in the mood to watch these movies. Oh, yeah. And this is John Kramer. He's getting a cat scan. And I, dude, we have a little league of skeleton shit here. Like, he's got this cat scan and we're doing like superimposed like the skull pictures over it. And I was like, man, just one of those, just one of them. You need to

flash Billy the puppet over his face. Just one time you have to do that, it would be so perfect and everybody would eat that shit up. They absolutely would. That's the tumor. He's got a little puppet in his head. Oh, the puppet is malignant. We can't cut this out of you. That'd be the only way you could get that thing through TSA. How does he get that to Mexico City? Dude, how are we getting a lot of stuff to Mexico City or just sourcing it in Mexico in general? Do not even open the Pandora's box about how any of this shit happens. Well, you have to open the Pandora's

box, Christopher, because that's how the game starts. Fucking Gabriel bringing Gabriela out of that club in the middle of a like 200 people are at this fucking sex club. Just that good, dude. And just that good. Just that good. And visibility cloak, like

Potter. No, well, this don't mind the giant pig head at the club, everyone. I mean, I gotta say that as much as I do, you know, I'm fine with this movie. I'm not gonna use the L word and say that I like it, like it, but like, the, an unfortunate thing of this movie is they're doing a lot of that stuff and saying a lot of that stuff and getting away with a lot of that stuff with the shitty presumption or excuse rather of like, well, it's Mexico, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, girl got kidnapped by a pig mask person right out of a crowded dance club. Well, it's Mexico. Once we get to Mexico, there is a taxi driver who takes them around to see like these beautiful, amazing structures.

And he's like, you see that? Yeah, that's actually a piece of shit. This place is a piece of shit. And actually, uh, it's dangerous here. I could do that. I could do those Aztec saw traps. Oh, body rolls downstairs. Big deal.

Yeah, yeah. Big whoop. I bet the Aztecs didn't put a metal helmet on some guy's face and kill him with a pear trap. A ripped a heart out big fucking deal. God damn it. The depiction of Mexico is, yes, we are doing the yellow tint, everyone. Oh, man. Just a scotch, but not like traffic bad. It's there. At the start, when he first gets there, like at the airport or whatever. Yeah. But it lightens up a little bit once we, because they kind of go outside of the city. And I think that's when it's like, oh, I could finally. breathe. It's not as yellow anymore. Yeah, exactly. So he's at this cancer support group really quickly here at the beginning.

And, you know, again, I think it's kind of fascinating to see John Kramer moving and shaken in the real world. So he's at this meeting for, you know, fellow people afflicted with cancer. And he hears from this dude, Henry Kessler,

that is stage four pancreatic cancer. And that's kind of the only thing we get about him right there. We have another doctor telling him, you know, hey, you got like a year, maybe some months here. And he's like, I still have a lot of work that needs to be done. And this dude's like, hey, here's an idea. Why don't you retire and just live out, you know, the rest of your life as best he can. And he's like, so your advice to me is to die easy.

You piece of shit. That's, you know what? You're going to get a bear trap on your dick because of that. I'm not going to do the full face one like I want to. But I'm going to do something to you and your children. I'm not going to die easy John McLean gets to die hard Why would I have to die easy

What is the deal with this doctor though Because I thought I mean I guess you know You see a bunch of different doctors When you have an affliction like this or whatever But like wasn't Carrie Elway's his doctor at one point Isn't that the whole thing? In America he is his doctor

Well this is in America right here too Yes it is but Carrie Always is already dead now right Because this is between one and two Because he's already started sure Yeah that's like the the new guy but then it's also like how long is this fucking can't like you got a month to live okay

yeah that can you fit about 15 movies in that's well that's another another problem with this movie is you don't understand because you can't what exactly is going on with the passage of time i.e. like what is the length of time the most important

one is what is the length of time between him figuring out he's been hilariously duped by people on the internet and him executing all of these traps on these people over the course of one wild night you know like you don't get that so I'm like yeah

if he's got months to live but you're like bringing in all of this fucking engineering equipment and whatever I you know it's best not to think about it Chris it's a Pandora's box you open it this thing to imagine when he when fucking

whoever has to propel down from the ceiling in fucking Cecilia's house to grab her. And there's apparently no fucking security on the building. I think that's Amanda. No, but the thing is with this, it's like you could have just drove. An old man in a van, he could have seen

at the border, but then you wouldn't set up the taxi driver Diego, who turns out to be the fake Dr. Cortez. You'd have to have just a different scene to convey that. Yes. Right. That's true. I love this scene of him leaving this doctor's office and he's waiting for the... Or no, he goes to a water fountain

and he sees this janitor, like, like in this guy's room. And the janitor is like sifting through a draw here like considering stealing this dude's wedding band and watch or whatever. And John Kramer pulls a full on usual suspects right here

because he looks around the room and he's like, boy, I sure would love to kill that guy in a trap. Huh. If I were to build one of these traps right now, what could it consist of? And he sees like the dude in the hospital bed that has like all the bones in his body broken or whatever and he's got his hand.

in some contraption, kind of like when Dr. Strange has the car accident and he's like in all these braces or whatever. And then you cut to this room and it's like, oh, there's the finger things. Hello, janitor. And this dude's got like tubes on his eyes or whatever.

And this is a pretty cool sequence, but I got to say, I do not appreciate the fucking trap fake out. And this is just a dream sequence. It's bullshit. It's stupid that it's a fake out. It is, but it's showing you his process. It's his creative process. says, and what they don't show you, and I did, I got a little pissed at this, is he is

very clearly jerking off while he's thinking of this. Oh, absolutely. I don't know about it. He is not in sight of the thief, so he has some room to really put out. Yeah, yeah. Chris, do you think he's got some cock traps for his own, like pleasure, you know? Oh, oh, for sure. I don't know if they're metal made. He's probably smart enough not to know, put his own little they're probably made out of the flesh of his victims. You know what? That is actually, he has a lot of material there it's it's an actual fleshlight oh no oh no very possible eric but yes he we do get this i suck it's the best uh trap in the movie to me for for sure it's a solid one i love the eyeballs dropping down into the box just like dunk dunk i also like it because like i'm kind of the one

thing i will give this movie about it's decision on the deaths i think a lot of them are not particularly good but like I do like one thing and that is that now we are having more survivors right yes like that is to me much more interesting than like and I my my theory here

is that of course they are all going to try again to kill John Kramer in the next one and get sawdrapped to death so now this is both of you have mentioned the next one has there been a greenlit at least according to Wikipedia it said sequel

Well, in December 2023, Lions Get announced a sequel, Saw 11 scheduled to be released, September 27th, 2024, and it's supposed to be a direct sequel to Saw Act. And that's why I am 100% sure, because you mentioned Kessler in the beginning, that is played by, I forget the guy's name,

Black Mantis's father from Aquaman. He's a really good actor. Michael Beach. Michael Beach, thank you. Good, man. He is, you only see him like one more time after this, and that's it. He's definitely coming back. And there's one of the victims

that will 100% be coming back. Oh, yeah. But, like, you're just, like, winding it all back up here. Like, that's why I kind of think of it in the alternate universe way is because, like, it, we've gone, we've gone away from

all the grubby, shitty, like, aesthetics. Like, even Saw 3D looks like shit. Like, it looks a little better than, like, of course, the digital stuff. We do get to warehouses. in this and just sitting around warehouses, but they look better, they're lit better. Exactly. That's, I think, we're getting

away from the grubbiness of it. Like, Jigsaw was the first one to actually make it look really good. Jigsaw looks great. Chris, you are really selling me on this being a Calvin timeline. I'm telling you, it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Because, like, I think it all ends with Saw 3D is the last of that

timeline. And both Jigsaw and Spiral were attempts to rejig, like, rejigger it, completely refiguer it. what can we do with this now that fucking John Kramer is not with us anymore. And I don't know about Shawnee. I forget how Shawnee Smith and Costas Mandelor end up in all this show. I just graduated Softlyde Academy.

Oh, there it is. There it is. Amanda and detective Costas Mandelor graduates of Soft Lead Academy. Absolutely. I think to your question, Chris, Amanda eats shit at the end of the third. one maybe. She gets shot in the same room, I think, that Jigsaw winds up dying in. Oh, yes. But it's smart, I think, because I think it's kind of smart to do this because who gives a shit about the actors aging? Horror fans don't care about shit like that. No. No. So why, like

Tobin Bell and and Shawnee Smith are arguably the better things in this franchise, keep them going. Yes. Yeah. I actually, because you, again, because you are seeing the two of them work together throughout this whole movie and it's way more interesting to me at least than like yep we set all this shit up days ago and now you're just watching it unfold like in this it's like

we don't see the set up days ago but they are present for these things taken off I like that they're in the room a lot I like that there's one part in this movie where the one girl decides fuck you I'm not going to play that tape and she throws the tape recorder away

and he's like oh that's not how this works. Luckily, I've got the script to that tape right here and I'm just reading it over the microphone. I didn't delete the files did I. Oh, fuck. Where's my word? Also, no police after him right here. Nothing. Which is good

because I get tired of like a Donnie Wahlberg type wandering around, a darkness, you know? Because that shit is, it's never interesting. I'm sorry. Unless the police are the focus of the movie, like a seven situation. Yes. It always sucks. And I'm calling it out right

a movie that I think would have been a thousand times better, even though I did have a ball watching it, that Beekeeper movie is totally hamstrung by these two useless FBI characters that are 30 minutes behind the whole movie the entire time, and it's awful. There's a few more hamstringing up the beekeeper, but I do agree with you that is a major issue. Honey glazed hams.

Many haggins. So Michael Beach, so we have this cancer scene where they're like, he's like, oh, God, and I got stage 4 pancreatic cancer and I'm getting ready to die but I'm still pissed about it and you can see John Kramer is really into that idea

and is like oh yeah fuck that fuck what does the lady say like well no it's not to die easy but she's like think of like you're passing on to another life like she's trying to like tell them to like accept things in a way and they're like fuck that shit

I want to kill a few people on my way out. Well, right, because this dude, Kessler says, I have stage four pancreatic cancer. It's terminal. I am determined to fight this thing till the very end. And John Kramer's like, ooh, a fighter. I like that. I like a fighter. And then it's, I think, like,

months later, he's at a sidewalk cafe going over his last will. Thank you. You are outside. You got like outside coffee or whatever. And you are, like, the wind is blowing. You're trying to fill. out this fucking will come on it's just like the most like it like it's like it's like the most

busiest thing i've ever seen in my life he gets this little tiny french press of coffee yes he's had this nice little sidewalk cafe going his last uh uh will and testament and there is fucking henry kessler about to order a delicious looking blueberry scone oh you wanted a blueberry scone and he uh and john's like hey henry he he looks healthy he And he's like, hey, Henry, hey, it's John Kramer, remember me? We're both the fighters and we didn't die. Remember that? And he gets down and he tells him, I'm cured.

Yeah, I have a war. When he shows him this big scar on his chest that he calls his war wound. Looks like Fred Kruger got to this guy with this thing. How do you, okay, like the thing, you know, the twist later is that Henry's in on this kind of fake medical scam. Yeah. How do you make a fake scar? good enough to impress jigsaw right out of the top. That's, well, I think, you know what?

That's an excellent point, Eric. And I think the only answer is somehow this dude indeed hired Tom Savini to make this scar make a floor. Oh, Tom Savini's in it. You've made blood come out of fake heads your whole life. How about it's coming out of your head now? I created an actual pumpkin head. Oh, Tom Savini, you thought it was a good idea.

to make the zombies in Dawn of the Dead Blue for some reason. Well, now I'm going to choke you till you're blue. My theory on this is that because we do hear when the big twist happens about 30 minutes in, we do hear John Kramer making a phone call to detective. And I assume that it's Costa Mandelor. And that I think Costas Mandelor probably kills Henry Kessler and that's the opening of the sequel. Sure. because like he's shown it the stingers helping helping jigsaw set up the trap because the the what doesn't make sense to me is like it doesn't make sense you're what you said about the scar also struck me I'm like John Kramer knows all like he's an idiot but he also knows what's going on a lot of the time true but I think another thing that this movie kind of tries to do I guess is like show you that he is kind of like this fallible dude and in that moment I think it's like oh fuck this guy should be dead and now

he's walking around getting a scone hold on i i want to be enjoying a scone i haven't enjoyed a scone since 1998 so i'm not enjoying a scone i'm sitting here enjoying signing my will so this henry castler character goes to cancer groups puts on a cry show and then like i guess keeps tabs on everyone and just bumps into them later and be like oh you know yeah i i i dude yeah these are some sick tickets man yeah he's got he's like a plant he's like literally a good industry plant to like bring people to this Peterson, the Peterson Project.net. Yeah.

So, okay. Here's a good fucking rule of thumb out there. All right. If someone is telling you they have like this magic cancer cure, which by the way I went to Mexico for or no, he says he went to Sweden, I think. Norway, yeah. Norway, you're right. Yeah, yeah. Because the actress

playing Cecilia is Norwegian. He's like, oh, I went to Norway, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's the information. I'll write it on this And the URL for this website is a dot net. Get right out of there. Not great. Get right out of there. I'm going to email my cancer doctor at geocities.com. My hot mail doctor. I mean, the other thing he says, he's like, now you can't get it here because it isn't FDA approved. The FDA would approve fried shrimp to treat AIDS. Like they don't, they don't really like say no too much. They really do let quite a lot through. It's just a line of just like, American bureaucracy. That makes sense.

Yeah, fuck America. Yes. And I'm forced, like, this is such an opportunity to, like, really press that, like, he was forced into this because the health, uh, health care in America isn't good and forced him into it. Like, there is an argument to be made where this makes more sense, but it's not that. It's just that he's an idiot and fell for like the last, uh, possible thing, this total scam. to get him more life.

Because that's what happens, dude. That's what happens to old people and the internet. All right? Like, I said it in my little intro line. Like, old people are the most easily scammed by the internet. And if this takes place in 2001, like, this is even before they were getting scammed on social media. Like, this dude's just getting scammed. It's so funny.

I think that should be the through line of the next movie and maybe this new trilogy that they're cultivating here is him getting scammed each time, you know? Oh, yeah. Oh, dude, if he keeps falling for scams. Amanda, did you know that Obama's a secret Muslim? And there's going to be death battles. I talked to a prince in Haiti, and he's going to give me safe passage to his kingdom. Oh, yeah, I got a phone call.

This poor guy was trapped while traveling and just needed some money sent to him. So, you know, I wanted to help him out. trying to pay him forward. Now my bank account's been frozen. You're here because you had an illegitimate GoFundB. You weren't sick. I'm sick. You weren't sick. I want my $50 back and pints of your blood. That's I that one sounds the most saw like is that a go fund me would be. He would really he would be pissed off about. Oh yeah. Those are out there. Oh yeah. He'd be very pissed off about that. But like, so he goes, he goes home and he's watching YouTube videos of Dr. Finn Peterson who has been forced into hiding because of his cancer treatment. Yes. Yeah. I'm kind of

thinking that this dude like isn't real or like maybe died several years ago. Maybe. The whole operation is being run by his daughter, Cecilia Peterson. Right. Uh, who calls him here. And this is a Sinov Mackie Lund, who's a Norwegian actress. She's been in. uh she was in oh you know what she was in is that a girl in the spider's web the claire foy dragon tattoo movie yeah uh and then a bunch of other european stuff that hasn't really crossed over here but she's like yeah so we can definitely do this with my dad's cure uh just to let you know our new facility just outside of mexico city it's a little off the grid right there again big no thanks john graeman the medical facility is off the grid because this dude is being hunted by a They are cancer renegades is what's happening here. Yes. Their cancer freedom fighters because there's some line about like, well, big pharma or maybe it's just on the screen like big pharma will like shut it like they're trying to shut

them down because it would cure like all these diseases and then they wouldn't be able to sell medication. Yes. Which, oh, so like big farm is definitely a better choice than this. That's good. That's a good intimation right there. This is kind of like those lines that they throw out. out here are that sort of cancer

conspiracy stuff of like well how is it that they haven't found a cure for cancer by now they're just hiding it so they can make you know what I mean like all that shit which like honestly if it turned out to be true it wouldn't be surprised exactly I'm not going around reading about that shit on the internet or watching YouTube videos

better as a Chris Rock joke than it is as a fucking state of mind about the fucking state of health care a Chris Rock joke is what spiral is that what it's called? Yeah but yes that is another one them. So whatever, this dying dude goes to Mexico here. And yes, this is the guy giving him the tour of everything around Mexico City. He does make mention of like, hey, and then

here's this Aztec shrine where they always, tourists always ask me to take them. And this is where they cut out hearts and threw them down the stairs. And blah, blah, yes. Wouldn't like, okay, you're John Kramer, you are nearly at the end. Even if you are going to find maybe your last chance to get out of this death sentence. Even on the plane, guess what I'm doing? I'm getting in a wheelchair and I'm going to save my energy because this, the one thing I know about cancer treatments is you get zapped of energy constantly. That's true.

It's just, and like, but no, John Kramer has to be that asshole. I was like, no, I'm going to walk. Don't you fucking touch me. Yeah, I don't need your help. Fuck you. Fuck on you. Like, and he gets in the, yes, as you said, the cab and he goes around all these places. you know, cancer is so expensive

you want to share? I mean, yeah, kind of pretty much, honestly. It's like, you know, book your own transport in advance, John Kramer. And so the driving along, it goes really from like, we're in Mexico City to like we cut

and all of a sudden this dude is just driving on grass. And again, I would be like, like if I'm John Kramer, it's like, now we're just literally not driving on a road anymore. This is trouble. Well, that's Mexico. Oh yeah. Anytime I'm being put in a place where I'm like, this also looks like a Lucci Fulci film. You know, probably not great. I wish. I don't want that.

So, yeah, this van comes out of nowhere, straight up kidnapped van. We got fucking machine guns drawn on this taxi cab. This is a little much. It's like, it's like Big Pharma is going to come down here with a paramilitary to stop us from curing cancer. And we need the big guns to stop them from stopping us. Well, imagine this. You're like, this happens to you. You're John Kramer and you're living through this thing. And you're like, and they're like, actually putting a gun in your face with black masks on and like looking like you're getting kidnapped for your life. Actually, this was just a check.

This was a security check to make sure that you are really John Kramer. Wouldn't you just immediately be like, you know what? No, thanks. I'm just going to die of cancer. That's good by me. I don't want to, whatever the next phase of this is, I don't need to be. Because we're like invoking like a cartel kidnapping here or something. Which honestly, I don't know.

I would watch that saw movie as well. I have to get to the doctor. No, you're kidnapping me. I have nothing to do with drug running. I have to get to the doctor. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Sit out, American. Well, yeah.

Oh, man. Well, yeah. It doesn't involve the cartel because S. Craig Zoller did not get to direct. Oh, my God. Imagine him doing a saw movie quiz. it to him tomorrow. I know I know he has this new movie is coming out this year

and I'm very excited like everybody else. And he did, I will say, he did put this on his top 10 movies of 2020. Did he? Wait, where are you getting this information? Well, this is on his personal email correspondence with S. Craig Zoller. The S Craigzoller Project.net. He's on letterbox

or people say he's on letterbox. Oh, I just saw you follow that where the account is literally not S. Craig Zoller. Well, like the same thing. Like they do that like not Dave Kerr is Dave Kerr. Right. Like not Bill Murray is Bill Murray on Twitter. Yeah, yeah. I'm kidding. I do like here where they're like, you know, who the fuck are you?

blah, blah, blah. He's like, I am John Kramer. It's pretty like you want him, because there is a break between I am and then John Kramer. I so want him to be like, I am jigsaw. Like just once. Just once say it into the camera for me, Big Daddy. Come on. He's already jigsawed already. You know, he's already laid on a warehouse floor. for their entire movie. And like this guy's so paranoid. And like these two guys are like, oh, actually, you're fine. We're just going to the nice cancer treatment house, a mansion that we're going to bring you to. Don't worry about it, Mr. Kramer. That was just a security check.

Here is your nice white lady to bring you through the rest of this cancer world. I also meet our lovely Gabriela who just got a brand new hit a smack and she's looking great. Yep, absolutely. This is who meets them at the door is Gabriela played by Renata Vaca and she's she is also like hyping up the story she's like oh welcome oh these pictures on the wall that my family

lived here I grew up here Dr. Peterson saved my life and he's just like oh well if this innocent young girl is saying that Dr. Peterson helped out this all must be on the up and up first dot net website now this oh yeah

would you say that I am now part of The Cancer Rebellion, because that's what I feel like. I feel like I'm part of a really rag-tag group of people who are going to beat cancer for good. I feel part of a group now. I love it. We're going to start getting malignant against the system. Yeah. Darnard, d'ert-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-saw.

Boy, and I'm Parker Sears. I used to have a tumor big as my knob, which was quite large. He does meet this Dr. Peterson right here. This is where she's like, oh, yeah, sorry about that greeting. We had to step up security because Big Pharma is always on our ass, she says. Yes, of course. And okay, so here we go. Red Flag number 76.

She takes him on a tour of this facility and she's like, oh, yeah, here's where the surgery will be happening. Don't worry about it. This used to be an old chemical factory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be like, I don't know, man. Are you planning to turn me into the Joker? What are you doing? Right, that doesn't sound very sterile.

No. Yeah, exactly. No, and like they do. They make it like a clean room. It looks like something from a Fincher film. Yes, yes. And they go in, and he gets to see, he gets to see Parker Sears. Yes.

Who's getting prepped. And he does say that he had a tumor the size of his dick, or the head of his dick, I suppose. He had a penis-shaped tumor in his throat. Which, I mean, I would hear that. And I'm like, yeah, actually, can I give you more money? Also, to do to this. This sounds so legit. A dick-sized tumor.

got removed from his his neck you say that's yeah oh oh i can't wait to give you more money also this name parker sears what what is you're looking around the room though there's a game by parker brothers oh there's a photo of chicago that's the sears tower yeah yeah it's awful it is such a bad name and you can tell it's a bad name because like it sticks out like a sore thumb and everybody's saying it and you're like god damn that terrible name oh my it's because we kept making fun of Jeff. Now they're giving us Parker Sears. And here's, uh, here's my brother,

Barnum Macy's. Oh, here we go. MacDonald Gimbles. Yes. Uh, the, the, the, the, the procedure worked for McDonald Gimbles. It's going to work for me. I'm a fighter.

He had a war wound. I saw it. Shape like a dick. That war wound. Um, so yeah, he meets like this whole team. There's Mateo, who's like an anesthesiologist. This is Octavia Yinojosa, Parker Sears, yeah, Stephen Brand. And so Cecilia's like, all right, hey, so

you know, what do you do for a living? And this is, because he has already started jigsawing around, he's like, basically like, yeah, I'm a life coach of sorts. I help people through personal obstacles. Yes. Are you into class of cars? Not really.

I'm more into taking. Hens Off of Bodies you get the congratulations tequila that he can't have yet. Gabriela is giving him it's special. We're going to see it again later. It is not product placement. No, it is.

Is this tequila also owned by Mark Wahlberg or is this one that Tobin Bell set up for himself? Whatever it is, it's a goof because it didn't exist in 2001, apparently. Oh, really? Oh, well. Let me try to find that goof for all these. fine folks. Here's my time traveling tequila. It hasn't been invented

yet. That's how good it is. But it's the Calvin timeline, man. It is. Oh, there's a bit of bullshit right here, like the night before the surgery. He's like, boy, I sure I'm having trouble sleeping. What's that noise? And he goes out, and this is where we meet

Little Carlos, who's going to play a huge role at the end of this movie. And he, like, helps him fix his bike. And this whole scene exists so that John Kramer can learn the word for like to pull in Spanish. Yes. That's all that exists

this scene exists for because at the end of the movie he needs to utilize that information. Well it establishes Carlos, who I guarantee you, is coming back in the next movie as a helper or maybe even we'll do a movie 20 years in the future you know, or what?

Yeah. Jigsaw Jr. Exactly. It's like Carlos, your time is come i'm dead you're you're setting up a lot of things to branch out to whatever the next phase of this piece of shit's gonna be and like michael panya in two movies being carlos the new jigsaw makes a lot of sense to me that i'd watch that like that's fine uh but yeah this is my any time you're trying to make john kramer sweet yes i'm out i'm all i'm so out and i'm not really in on any of the other stuff to be fair but like this is where I'm just like what what is even the point of this other than to be like you know what he's not he's not such a bad

guy he's not a bad guy he he has he bonds with Carlos and Gabriela so he's a good guy Chris yes he's a really nice guy who just loves ripping people's heads off by the way tequila update the tequila is codigo 1530 which was co-founded by country music singer George Strait. Of course. Whoa. Everything is a celebrity piece of shit. Yes. You see, oh, man, maybe he's going to be in Saul Evin. Maybe get George Straight in Saul Evan. Oh, sure. Yeah. I don't know.

Hey, man. Yeah, you want to play a game, man. Hey, yeah. I also got cancer, man. Can I join the Cancer Avengers with you, John Pramer? A couple 70-year-old kicking butt killing people for no reason. I'm going to be tumor. What do you want to be? yeah you know whatever he's helping his kid fix the bike and he's like pull what how do you say pull and he goes halar all right halar halar and it's important right here to note also that uh he's he asks him something about uh english and the kid says no and he's like well that's about about the extent

of my spanish knowledge only later for him to say something in Spanish and I was like, wait a second. You told that little kid you didn't speak Spanish. Well, he has to play everybody, Andrew. He can't like to keep up the artifice to really sell the thing. He has to lie to

everybody. So even this child cannot be told the truth. Because it's, I think it's the, when he got, when the revenge is starting and he goes back to get the cab driver and the dude in Spanish says where you know, where are we going or whatever? And John Kramer in Spanish response.

with two hell. Yes. So was it, I guess that was him or, yeah, it was him, right? Because he takes off his mask there. Or was that Shawnee Smith? She starts kidnapping people at some point. You don't see John Kramer in that scene. But I think that first one is supposed to be him and she's getting the rest of him. That's more likely, I would probably agree with you because he is the one when we cut to see what they're happening to

Diego and the arm bombs. that that is John Kramer is all over it he's the only person there right so he goes in for this fake surgery that he doesn't know is fake quite yet and they're like oh yeah you're gonna have a a waking craniotomy and that means we're gonna cut your fucking head

open while you're in and out of consciousness which sounds terrifying it does and like this is so low like when we find out like so he gets he goes through it there's one point where he wakes up and he sees on the screen something, it looks like what you would think the inside of a brain would look like. Right. The surgery happening. But it's not. It's not. It turns out it is not. He goes through the surgery. It's a DVD for surgeons of tomorrow, which if anybody

has this, please give it to me. Seriously. Seriously. What's this? What's this box set look like? What do the fucking interactive menus look like? DM me or DM the show. Do whatever. Just give me this thing. I hope it has surgeons commentary tracks. Oh, man. Please. He's fucking up there. He also fucked up there. You know, something they never got right in scrubs is the way that we all like love each other. So, yeah, he goes through it.

He's actually, he, they give him some gas so that he knocks out for good. Nobody but the nurse Valentina is that it? I think that's right. Yes. is going to see him other than Dr. Peterson who she, Cecilia Peterson, sees him when he wakes up, gives him all the, you know, don't take off your bandages, take some rest.

Right, because they're anti-bacterial. Now, you can make this con so much more convincing. Yeah. Shave his head and then like just cut the scalp and, you know, stitch it back. This is so low rent. Like I would be so much more into the idea that this is actually like a scam being backed by like really like wealthy people but like clearly they are hiring from the bottom

of the barrel like they're hide when he comes back to find out this is all a fucking sham they left the DVD case out they fucking it's a real bad cleanup job you're absolutely right didn't even buzz his hair like you had the buzzer yes you're totally right there is a shot of the buzzer and like one of these fake medical technicians turning it on it's like like at least do that it's a problem that everyone here is is faking being a medical person why not get like a doctor Nick Riviera

someone who like flungly out yep you can find those fuckers absolutely the gravitas of a sawtrap on that guy and Kramer going like you took a you took an oath when you went to medical school and you betrayed it you know beautiful yes yes

you vowed to do no harm and now I vowed to leave you with no arms. How about that? Give him the eye suck machine. Oh, yeah, put it out his dick though. Yeah, oh, fine. That will be. People have been trying to invent that for years. They have. And they have. The Japanese have really made some strides.

But, so. I'm going to Japan to get my dick sucked. We're close to that, Eric. So he's, he wakes up. He, you know, he's not, you know, he's not. You know what? He's not dreaming. He made a sawtrap sketch. And he's like,

no, that's wrong. So he rips it out of his notebook. This is, this is, it's so funny to me because it's like, it's looking like a real good fucking head destroyer trap or whatever. And then he's like, you know what? No, I'm leaving that

life behind. And as he crinkles it up, they cut to this like medium shot of him on this bench. Yeah, I just got a little, uh, froyo here. He's got some froyo sitting in the park on an afternoon. designed my sawtraps in my sketchbook. I'm not a total psycho. I can't wait to live another 15 years.

It's going to be so great. And like, he's like sketching hills and all this shit and like enjoying life, quote unquote, drinking Americanos. How could he retire? He's got more little murder machines to devise. Well, no, because he's going to turn into a sketch. It seems like he's just going to sketch like hills and mountains for the rest of his life. If he were to live.

You know, what's what's, what's, what's, weird about this. And I guess it's just showing you like once a civil engineer, always a civil engineer or whatever, but he's like, not only is he sketching the mountains, he's like sketching stuff that he can see. So like, here's, here's this radio tower that's on top of the mountain and whatever.

And he's doing what looks like some sort of like navigational like calculations or something. And I guess he's just drawing stuff and obsessed with making it to scale or something. But I thought he was trying to determine like where he was because when he wakes up there's this whole thing about like oh we're not at the facility anymore we're at a hospital that's two blocks away from dr. Mateo's hospital so in case anything if you needed a blood transfusion she says you'd be you know closer to getting that or whatever and I thought it was like where the fuck are they keeping me all right this looks like the radio towers here that would be but I guess it's just like he's drawing to scale I don't know that honestly Eric is right that is very interesting but they

if that is true, the filmmakers do almost nothing to draw attention to that. He could have tracked down the place he was at from his drawings or whatever versus kidnapping the cab driver. Exactly. Which is what, I mean, after he finds, he goes, he buys a part, he time travels, gets this bottle of tequila, comes back and he brings it over to where he got his surgery. he is not met with by a gang of militants who are going to bring him to his cancer thing. He gets right to the door. Yes.

With a nice bottle with Gabriel a greeting card. And nobody's fucking there. By the way, it's fucking gone. It's so funny when he goes to the liquor story. He's like, you have a card to go with it. And it's just,

you have cards in Mexico? I don't know. But the card to go, it's just a piece of paper that says Gabriella. And it's just like, what did you expect from a liquor story anyway? Well, that's the thing. I don't think it's so much, do you have cards in Mexico?

It's, do you have cards at this liquor store? Which I've been in that situation, man. You got to ask the person at the liquor store if there's like a gift bag you can also buy. It is kind of sad. You might as well be like throwing a pack of condoms in some lotto tickets. That's the level that I'm at right now asking for a bag like that and a gift store. Gabriella, I got you scratch-offs. Scratchers.

Well, I guess I do have to give them credit on that. It is not a place like that. It looks like a very fancy liquor store he goes to. Well, that's, it does look pretty nice. It's a pretty nice little place. And apparently, Chris, on the door, it has some stickers for apps that don't exist in 2001. Oh, that's interesting. You can get, you can get Grubhub in 2002.

In the Calvin timeline. Yes. The Calvin Timeline. So he, yeah, he goes to, it's a ghost town at the old. The fucking front door is wide open. Like, here's the thing about that DVD being left on. Like, the monitor, I don't. they at once didn't clean up but also made more of a mess

because like there's a there's a like a a head to toe like floor mirror thing that's just broken the monitor that's playing the DVD is turned over but the DVD menu like is still on I don't know why they decided to fuck up their own hideout it's really weird I'm a little shocked we didn't get a John Kramer walking into this fucking ex this former clinic and just getting a night of the living dead like a horde of homeless people as zombies

Oh yes Clearly that's how he sees them I mean like we've heard what he thinks of the poor people who used to use his clinic But that is not what happens He sees all this he makes the realization Almost immediately pulls off his bandages And they have done jack shit to his head

they haven't even like imagine this imagine he pulls that off and he just has a shaved head and like scars in it you might he might have bought that yeah exactly dude exactly this is why we got to do it right when we're older and we start running scams yeah when we start doing saw traps and like that never

work uh we should uh definitely think this through now does he he does I guess the idea is like this is a this is a touring scam they'll go somewhere else which also Norway is next baby why not just pack up all your stuff and we use that precious DVD.

But no, I guess John Kramer now just uses this warehouse as his murder laboratory, is that right? Right, well, because when he turns the lights on, like the first, we should say, the first time he sees this lab where the procedure happens or doesn't happen as it is,

it's all like, you know, what am I trying to say? Like fluorescent lighting, it's very sterile, white, sort of clean lighting kind of a thing. When he comes back to it, he turns the lights on, and it looks immediately like a saw warehouse.

Like, it's yellow and green lighting, everything's shitty. And he's like, oh, now this place kind of feels like home, all right, I'll set up shop here. There's a certain familiar aesthetic here. There should have been a scene like the killer where it's like, oh, who's coming to the door? And they're just dropping off menus in the mail. Oh, yes. They got it. I don't have to saw that guy.

Now, echoing through the clinic is, punctured bicycle. the hillside. Fuck yeah, dude, trade up. She hopes to make a man out of me. That would be great. Who's playing that delightful music? But you're right, Eric, because

while this movie is borderline two hours, which is a problem. It's too long. Yeah. I just, I want just the littlest bit of him making himself at home in this warehouse, which would include a similar situation of someone stopping by dropping off menus or whatever it is, you know. Or maybe we see a little Carlos kicking the football around earlier in the film as well.

So it establishes that Carlos still like plays around there or something like that. Yeah, that would be nice. But yeah, so now it's like, okay, he sort of deduces how the fuck do I track all these people down. Oh, I'll go back to Diego. That's the dude who, you know, I know maybe the whereabouts of where I can find him if he's still driving the cab around and we can go from there and this is like the he drops off some tourists and then it's like someone else gets in the car

you don't see who it is where are we going to hell he says in Spanish and then Diego wakes up and fucking finally we got a saw trap here a real one not just a fake phony dream sequence also the whole thing with this Diego guy it's like so he was at the airport waiting just for John Kramer like there's so many very and then of course he is also Dr. Cortez

it's like you presumably make a lot of money like they bill come out of like uh what is it over 200 000 yeah yes and you're doing this multiple times and and now you're just being a cab driver again well that's i i guess well they haven't gotten paid yet that's one of the right yes it's coming apocracies is apocer's all the money but that even that is so fucking great like of course someone with like any kind perception is going to be like oh that looks something my taxi driver was about to cut him to my fucking head. Like, why is that happening? Am I just racist? Because I guess he's got

like the face mask on and it's like, well, they're American. They're not going to know. But like literally, if you had not done that, maybe he doesn't put this together. Maybe he doesn't get Diego in that. You can't, that's the thing. You know, this isn't like some rinky dink local community

theater company. You don't need people playing more than one role. All right. Like, get another person to play the role of Dr. Cortez. because your actor already has the role of the cab driver. Parker Sears and Cecilia are an item. So, like, we know that this shit is, they're

sharing fucking funds. So I think fucking Diego getting an extra five grand is not out of control. Yes, there's a totally right. There's a twist that Parker Sears, if you could believe it, is actually a bad guy. He did not have a tumor like a penis. He did not have that.

John Kramer's like, you know what? In retrospect, that did sound fake. You know, in life, you said that you had a tumor, the shape of a penis, but what if we put Diego's penis in your throat now? Oh, no. Oh, no! Ah, no! Ah! I would watch that porno parody.

Oh, fuck yeah. I saw XXX. That's right. I'm sure some twisted fuck has made that. You think so? Let's try to look it up. There you go. And while you do that, ruin your searches. Oh, an open private window. Yeah, oh, smart moves. Smart moves.

Don't want any of them internet detectives after you. his mandelor. It's going to put me in a fucking dick-sucking machine if I Google too much. So Diego has been taken. He wakes up. He has

two a pipe bombs on his arm. They are attached through these wires that we are told cannot be cut. He's bounded up by rope as well.

And we see John Kramer is in a separate room through glass. He sees him. Very important, Chris, to note that this guy is kind of set up like you're playing Edward 40 hands, but instead of two delicious 40-ounce bottles of beer, you've got little blades attached there, medical tools.

Some frat, there has to be some genius frat guy out there who has made some, like, because you have to get tired of like the drinking, like Olympics and just like, you know, picking fucking pickles up with your ass and doing a shot and then being done. So some frat guy out there has to think of. like make a saw themed like frat drinking party where you have to do each one of these in the drinking like Edward 40 hands and if you don't if you don't drink both 40 if you don't if you're the last person to finish your 40s your arms get cut off oh there you go there you go I thought these were going to be practical drinking games until you were talking about actually cutting off someone's arms look I have to I have to call down the frat bros a little bit here this is the best way to do it get them drunk and then get them mostly not alive the frat bros might also like like this bit, this little nugget here saw a hardcore parody from 2010. So that is how old the saw porno is. The saw porno is so old that Ron Jeremy is the chief of police in it.

Oh, Jesus. The hedgehog striking out this movie. I don't think so. The criminal himself. Yes, six years after the original. Written directed by Dick Chubbles. Oh. Chibbles.

Oh, it's a Chibbles. Sorry. Chibbles. Oh, it's a chibbles joint. Oh, boy. Yeah. He's chibbles here. He's quite the aesthetic.

Yeah, the director of losers never get laid. And Superman of a hard quirk. Anyway, I'll stop talking about it. So one of the things about John Kramer being present for all of this stuff that I do think is amusing is now in this screenplay, so many people are just yelling, Kramer! They are. Just constantly yelling the name Kramer. It's very funny.

So he uses these the scalples and he cuts through his ropes. And oops-a-doodle that triggered something. That triggers the pipe bombs. There's numbers on his pipe bombs and they start going. Yes. And he's just yelling at Kramer until he notices they drop

down the little tape recorder. And he plays his message and of course, you know, you have to cut around the pipe bombs, the skin, and rip them off to get them off. Or, you you are going to blow up.

It's fucking brutal, man. It is really brutal. I'm surprised. He does it and he lives. And then you get John Kramer walking in with this little medical case. You're going to be okay. Yeah.

Sing the fucking song. Now, what I want you to do with those arms that definitely work the same is bandage, bandaged correctly. Because if you fuck it up, then you could get a defection. And I don't, that's not on me. That's on you.

He's still doing Edward's scalpel hands. You're totally right. How's he supposed to bandage anything? John Kramer. You left him to die John Kramer. There was a flashback later on when we're revealing like, oh, I knew everything all along. Like, I think this guy gives

up Parker Sears at some point. He does. He does. Yeah. Okay. They're boning. He says he tells them like they're fucking. Yeah. Oh, yes, that's right. Yeah. But this is where he, this is you see really quickly, Kramer's on the phone and he's like, oh, hey, detective.

I'm going to need help tracking down these names. people who need our services. Now, could you make it so that Valentina the nurse almost gets raped like right before I come out because that would really help my... Dude, that's another fucking only

in Mexico. It absolutely is if it's fucking terrible. Just have this girl blowing rails in a club. Why does the threat of rape have to also be in the volume? I'll tell you exactly because this is another one where they're like, well, he's not such a bad guy. Because he kills

the rapist. When the rapist tries to get at Valentina he like, I don't know if he shoots him in the head. This is Shawnee Smith dude. And she like takes him out. He's like, I don't know if he's dead dead, but he's definitely fucked up. Yeah, I don't think it's a kill. I think he gets hit in the

head with something because there's like a window in the car that gets busted out. Yes. So I think she just like fucks him up or something maybe. But yeah, so she is about to be assaulted in this car and her pig mess comes in here.

nabs her. Her savior pig man comes in. It's too much. It's fucking takes her to fucking go into the the, uh, those, like, what is, it's a warehouse, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's, it's the warehouse, uh, I believe where the procedure took place. I believe so. Yeah. Oh, like, yeah, because they take out the clean room. Oh, we're going to have to swing by the butcher shop, get some pig heads. You know, uh, there's no way I'm driving all the way down here with pig masks. They're going to be rotting in the are now Diego before we start where's the best place to get some robes around here i need a robe guy and i need a couple of them in different sizes i got some friends who are

coming that's the thing is like the robes the pig masks this is sex cult stuff it is uh so yeah he he gets valentina uh shawney smith gets uh valentina out of this car she gets kidnapped uh is a gabry no matthew we go to matteo at this veteran clinic. Yes. And it's, this is, see, I guess this Mateo, it's close to a Dr. Nick Riviera, but he's just a veterinarian who's also

slinging drugs, which I believe is that not a character in, oh shit. Is it, is it better call Saul where there's a crooked veterinarian character, I think? Are you thinking of Beethoven?

No, I'm not thinking of Beethoven. I have, I've sadly not gone past the first season of Better Call Saul, I want to I just haven't done it. I think there's a similar, it's a crooked veterinarian and the dude's kind of like trying to get

out of the whole thing. I think it's better call Saul where that character exists. I would like to believe that this is Jeremy Piven's character and he is. Oh, very similar. Yeah. But have your veterinarian be the doctor guy and you can still administer drugs and cut an incision

and sew it up. Come on. But you're right You're right But like also the more important thing Eric Is that he's a piece of shit Because like he's helping out at the at this At the clinic And like the two ladies

His two colleagues even they're like Shitheads Yes what is that about why is it just fucking Talking shit about those women Because you're supposed to think like he deserves Every fucking thing he gets like That is them like juice in it They do

They fucking con a man with cancer Yeah exactly like he but they're like they want to keep juicing you because you're going to watch these people scream for their lives for at least two minutes that's fair so you have to kind of really build up this the fucking idea that yes they absolutely deserve it he hates his fucking uh colleagues he fucking steals drugs from dogs he's hey what happened to my stash poor beethoven and droopy are never going to get high again see this is what he should have jigsaw should have captured those dogs and then been like you've been uh steal stealing from dogs and now dogs will steal from you and they get to bite them. Ooh, yeah. Poor hungry dogs on leashed on. Poor barbecue sauce all over them and let them have it.

Oh, no, I need that medication to regulate my blood sugar. I guess it's not enough like a rusted metal with dogs. I think every device needs rusted metal. Yeah, that's the problem right there. I mean, you could just make a dog like machine that rip the person apart, I guess. Carlos, throw this metal in the lake. I'm going to need it later. Go rust up this metal for me, Carlos.

Don't worry. It'll come in handy. Gabriella pops in and is like, oh, you know, I need a fix. And this dude is like, all right, here's some drugs. I definitely just have in my pocket ready for you. But I, this is a weird one though, right? Because you're saying they're trying to juice it up like he's a scumbag. But then this dude's also like, you got to go someplace else for your drugs from now on. Because I'm done with this or whatever.

And she's like, okay. the dogs are all barking in the back of the clinic or whatever. And then this is a weird, we're not explaining what's going on here, but all the dogs start barking or stop barking, excuse me. And then it's like, okay, like that's how Mateo knows like something's up. But like, is Shawnee Smith killing those dogs? No, she probably threw another pig masks at them. They had a nice dinner.

These weeners will give me the energy idea. But they do, like they yelp, like you hear a yelp. so you imagine they're scared to silence by this? I don't know. I don't really get it either. I was a little curious about that, but it does, I mean,

Shawnee Smith gets him, tasers him. Is this that he gets tased in the face, right? She shoots the taser in his face. Later, she gets it in the face. This is a fraud.

This is, oh yes, you're right. Classic pig mask device, the prod, by the way. You does love it. And then we go directly from there to

Gabriela who is going to a like this underground club that is highly populated and she goes into the bathroom and she's you can tell that she's an innocent because she's a little shameful about taking the drugs out and open right which is wild because it's just pills yes it's just pills nobody would give a shit absolutely but that's it's to suggest that maybe this character isn't all bad which is what Shawnee Smith will be saying for the rest of this fucking movie I mean to be fair this character winds up getting a pretty raw deal when all the sudden. Pretty bad.

So she goes into the toilet and is taking her drugs. Into the toilet? Or the stall? Well, no, she does a train spot. She's swimming down there. That should be a fucking saw trap. Yeah, I put you down the toilet. Will you drown

or not? Today you find out. So she takes her drugs. She sees a robe like coming up to the fucking stall and she's like oh shit oh here we go whatever this is it's not good it's you know what it kind is which sucks is because you see the pair of like black boots you're kind of ripping off scream right there absolutely it's black boots and a toilet stall door that's scream totally good yeah i would totally agree with that and of course uh she comes out very slowly uh pig face uh punches

her and she gets knocked out uh again gets the harry potter invisibility cloak and takes her ass out very easily, it seems. Very embarrassing detail, though, here, Chris, because she's in the toilet and she's scared and she's like, ooh, let's think of some self-defense. And she pulls out a bottle of mace. And then Shawnee Smith takes the bottle after attacking her and maces this woman with her own mace. Yeah. Really brutal stuff. Yep. Much like Hannibal Lecter did to that prison guard. That's right. And then so here we go. The big get Cecilia herself in her big mansion location question mark and she's like you see this big wall of marks and she's got all these additional scam she's on the phone conning a woman this is now now I'm like oh shit maybe

it's not a traveling band maybe they just always do it in Mexico to rip people off so then why would you leave your DVDs out that would make no sense if she's got a house here or is she renting it question it looks like a question marks it looks like a I don't know if you can fucking rent a place like that place is fucking nice it's it's a pretty like it's a house that's so cool and eerie looking at night you could do a nice home invasion movie yeah yes yeah uh which would it would have been cool actually if he set up shop in this woman's house not actually not enough home invasion movies lately get to work everyone that that hush one sucked so i'm not really oh i didn't see that what was that chris that's the what's his name mike uh mike flanagan's got one uh that's got to be

at least 10 years old. Oh, is it? I've noticed this time. 2016. Okay. All right. Close. That was the last one I remember and I did not like it.

Didn't we do like a new strangers movie or something at one? We did, but that's the whole thing with the new strangers movie is it's outside. Most of it is like, there's like kills outside mostly. So it's not a home invasion. It's like a backyard invasion. I think like maybe it starts with a home invasion. Get out of my yard. Get out of here.

There's like a pool. kill in that movie. Should I look up Home Invasion movies? Maybe there's a home invasion porn parody. There definitely is, Eric, so don't you worry. There's quite a few of those I would wager. So, yeah, she's like on the phone with this lady and she's like,

oh, no need to cry, Margaret. Oh, we're going to take such good care of you. I'm not an angel. Stop saying I'm an angel. I'm not an angel. Well, this woman is like double fisting fat stacks of cash right here and putting them into a bag and it's like

it's labeled like, oh, you know, this is for Mateo, this is Gabriella, yada, yada, yada. So you see her and like how the back end of this scam is working. And then basically it's like, uh-oh, she hears a noise or whatever. And she's starting to look at this big grid of security cameras. Like I say, I like this shot of, you know, she's looking around the house, all these different camera angles. And then it's this big wide shot of the house. Basically, the establishing shot they use for the start of this scene is used as security footage. and you see her.

It almost looks like a Wes Anderson movie in the way that he sometimes dollhouse compartmentalizes sets like, you know, he does in Life Aquatic. He should do a home invasion movie. Oh, there you go. That's kind of what Royal Tenant Bowms is. That's actually, yeah, kind of, yeah.

But I like this, it's like, because she can see herself in one room so she's looking around, and then, uh-oh, there's someone on the roof, which is pretty cool. Yeah, so it's a good shot. Pigman is on the fucking roof. And whoever this is, I assume it's Shawnee.

throws something through the glass ceiling, which looked like a big tube television to me at first. It's 2001, so it's totally possible. Definitely. I hope the Saw Levin will show the Ethan Hunt -esque fucking training you have to do

to fucking repel down from this fucking ceiling to fucking get this lady in time before she activates whatever fucking otherworldly fucking security system she has on this place. Yeah, this is both of them at the same time because this is where

she like runs to the car and she's about to get out of the driveway and one of the pig masks is standing in front of the car it's Shawnee Smith because then John Kramer comes out in the other pig mask and injects her he's hiding in the back seat the whole time and then it's like this is my associate Amanda and the theater goes wild

oh man she's back oh man I have loved her since who's Harry Crumb Oh, have you seen, have you seen Becker? It's delightful. What is she, like a little daughter in who's Harry Crumb or something? She's like his sidekick in who's Harry Crum. She's like the younger, because it's like a model gets kidnapped and the model's younger sister is his sidekick when he's investigating it. It's been a long time for me and Harry Crum.

Mother of God. I know we're trying not always to do, we're trying to avoid comedy sometimes, but Mother of God that movie. Jeffrey Jones versus John Candy I fucking imagine Oh that sounds delightful I always confuse it with Delirious You remember that one? Delirious is the one with him and Eugene Levy

He's a writer writer yes Eugene Levy was armed and dangerous Was a big one? That's armed and that isn't stay tuned But what is the one I'm thinking of though So it's not delirious It's John Candy and Eugene Levy They're limo drivers

And oh fuck What is that movie Going Berserk Yes. Going Berserk. That is a sub-movie. A shout factory put that out on a Blu-ray and I 100% bought it. Oh, boy. I might have to join you. Oh, dude. It took me back, man, because that, going Berserk was like a movie we danced around doing in the early days of W.H. I remember it being a little dicey. There's definitely some dicey material in it. Don't worry about it.

Maybe we should look into some John Candy comedies, but you're right, Chris. comedies can be kind of hard because it's like tricky. What's the fun of us just pointing out stuff that's not funny? I love talking about stuff that makes me laugh. I love doing that as much, but I entertain to the folks at home at least not as entertaining as I try to be. Exactly. We do get

a quick montage that shows Amanda kidnapping everyone and she's got a good line here. She's like, get some rest, Cecilia. You're going to fucking need it. I don't necessarily buy her as a tough character, but I appreciate the effort in all these movies where she's trying to like

sound badass in her own way and I think I think that's a totally I'm a well-wisher to Shawnee Smith at this point yeah exactly she's been around forever she's earned it and like I'm glad she has like that's the thing is I in in a better

world I would like the idea like I like that Brady Kruger is just Frady Krueger throughout those movies I like that fucking Jason is just Jason throughout those movies I would have liked if John Kramer would shut his fucking mouth about the morals I would

like to have seen him throughout these movies doing this. But they make him such like a, actually, I'm kind of a good guy. If you would listen to me for 25 fucking minutes, you would understand that actually this is, there's, there's some real political meaning here. You know, I would argue that this is the only movie that actually tries to give us what, what is behind his, you know, like, what is he doing this for? You are absolutely right. And it does that in fucking objection to everything that's come before it.

That's true. Because everything that came before it was bad. I think I'm now on board that this is maybe the best one, but I don't like the franchise. I don't. I don't like this idea. I really don't. But like, yeah, that's besides point. We've said this many, many times.

They are all in the big warehouse now. And now it's basically we're not leaving this facility. Now it's like your tried and true formula. Exactly. Now we have spent our entire $13 million budget. We're staying here, buddy. Yes, here's the 250,000 left over. And honestly, man, like, this is why it keeps getting sequels.

I mean, $13 million, box office is over $100 million. Like, of course. And your biggest star is Tobin Bell. Yes. Your costs are really low. So I do love all these people shitting their ever-loving pants when they see John Kramer walk into the room. And again, this is shit that, like, you don't get when it's just a tape recorder threatening people. and they're like oh fuck here's the dude that we totally scammed and we all know that we totally scammed him

and now the chicken has come home to roost and we're totally fuck we're all chained here and they start screaming like they all immediately turn on cecilia like it was all her she made us do everything and then this woman goes uh like oh john we were only trying to help you and he just turns and goes that game is over good for you john you tell him oh Excellent, which is great because this movie does not end with a game over. So this is where you get your game over. And he turns to Valentina, who is like the nurse here. And he goes, hey, Valentina, what'd you do with those blood samples?

You ever get those blood samples of mine to the lab? Or did you just suck out my blood and flush it down a drain somewhere? And with that idea, let me introduce, I'm my game. And he's got, this is one of the most, he definitely. definitely wanted her dead. All the other ones, like, there's a pretty easy out. She has to do, like, three things to get. Yep.

She has to start the clock, first of all. And then from there, she has to, there's a razor wire around her neck. He refers to it as a gilly saw, by the way. I never heard of such a thing, apparently. I've read a book, so I'm actually smarter than you. You're right. They do. they're like, oh, it was

invented by Leonardo Gile. Lee. I'm not just reading Wikipedia right now. Fucking piece of shit. So, yeah, he has a very special word for what is razor wire. And it's going to cut through her neck. If she doesn't cut through her thigh, take off her leg. Completely remove her leg, amputated. Oh, my God.

It gets worse and worse. Come, you have to do that. And then from there, that's not enough. You have to, oh, I'm sorry. You have to put a tourniquet on also while this is happening. Uh, and then you have to stick a fucking, like, a drainage pipe like a vacuum cleaner. Yeah. Yep. Yep. In your fucking leg to get enough blood into the bone marrow.

Is it bone marrow? It's bone marrow. It's, it's so, yeah, it's like fucked up double dare. It's like you got to suck out all this stuff so that the scale moves enough that it turns off the device. This is down right guts. I would love. Oh, well done. So this was a missed fucking opportunity. If she got, I would have loved it. If she does it, she solves it.

But he's like, oh, excuse me, this is blood, not bone marrow. And then he just does it. It's just like, fuck. And like, takes her head off. I mean, it's, it's weight-based. You could probably do blood, right? Yeah. I mean, well, it's a weird, like, there's a sort of like a filter,

like a filtered platform that the blood is falling through and it's catching all of this bone marrow. on it. And I'm trying not to throw up here. I will say, I saw this in the theater and being in the theater I had to look away. Like, at least with my television and I'd already seen it before

and I was like, oh yeah, this is awful. But dude, I was in that theater like it's a rough one. It was really. But I think, Chris, you're totally right. And I had this thought watching it today. Like, the first one is virtually impossible. Like, yes, quote unquote, you could do it. Sure. But like,

you're not going to do it. She almost does it, too, by the way. She comes real fucking close. She comes close, sure. But, like, he's able to calculate, you know, for that, like, all the hesitation that's going to happen. And I think he wants to guarantee the first one goes tits up. So it shows, like, he's not fucking around with the rest of these people.

Like, look, it's real. Like, I don't care that this girl got her head chopped off. This is more to the point of, like, don't play the game. Just get your head chopped off and die with some dignity here. Yeah, yeah. Don't give him his pleasure. Like, or, I mean, maybe he's. would get pleasure from what he would get pleasure from me what about when it when the head gets

cut off and the entire body slumps out of that chair pretty cool shot yeah yep it's not bad because it's like the camera is on cecilia turning away to look away from it and it's just like like the whole thing just falls on the floor really really tough stuff oh yeah i really want to underline what you said andrew because you are 100% right this he's a showman and he knows that he can't get through the rest of what he has to get through. If she doesn't do it, I would have fucking loved, man. If she's just like will not start the clock, like, no. Well, I'll starve.

I'd rather starve to death than whatever the fuck. Seriously. Whatever this is, are you fucking serious? Yes, but I think he has accounted for that already because that's what Mateo does and they all have like shock collars on. Yeah, but doesn't he, like, isn't her whole thing like, I'm not going to do it? And then like, Cecile's just like, you have to do it. It's not even, you don't even see what force is hard to do it. She does talk her into it in a way to talk her through it to survive it, but that does not happen.

No, it does not. And like, yeah, she, of course, she does not get it. She gets her head cut off. And everybody's like, oh, that's so sad. I bet he didn't want that to happen. And next, I mean, now we're talking for a little bit. It takes a while before Mateo comes up. Right.

So much. This is like, we get, well, talking with some truly disgusting stuff peppered in. But like this is also where like Kramer's telling Amanda, you know, everyone's got free will and Amanda's trying to like sympathize with the Gabriela character because

Amanda is a drug addict who's in recovery thanks to the John Kramer trials. You know, and he's like, hey, you had problems with drugs. I helped you out. She can help herself out too, blah, blah, blah. And so while they're having this convo, Cecilia is trying to like scam her way out of there.

and she's like, you know how I'm going to do it? I'm going to cut this corpse open, grab Valentina's intestines out, and use it like a rope. Yes. And I'm almost... This is almost where I'm with this movie, where I'm like, okay, now you're pushing it, and I actually like that.

Like, the idea that this would get so ridiculous, like you're pulling the guts out of something. Like, this is actually something I would see in Fulci, like something silly a little bit. Oh, yeah. I mean, well, it's also fascinating because, like, I think the Cecilia character, it's interesting to have another villain in this movie.

Like, yes, John and Amanda are doing shitty stuff, of course. And they're, like, protagonist and villain in the movie. But, like, Cecilia is a bit of a formidable rival to John Kramer in that way. And, like, she's willing to fucking instantly cut this corpse open and grab the intestines. She very casually is holding it in her hands. hand and just goes, we have a rope. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, this lady would

resort to cannibalism immediately if she had to. Like, she's not playing around. Exactly. But, which we're definitely setting her up. I think, you know, obviously the sequel, we'll see her again. And maybe, you know, it'll be like a little cat mouse between who can do the best murder traps. It's going to be her and Kessler, for sure. It's nice to see an actual

like villain to Jigsaw versus just Randos. But then I kind of wish, like, Like the only vulnerability, like the only thing where you understand that John Kramer is a person that can be like fooled is the beginning. After that like every, he thinks of everything. And like even like the twist at the end, you're like, oh, but he even accounted for that. Right.

Well, it's a real like fool me one shame on me, fool me twice saw on you. You know what I'm saying? So I suppose that is true. She uses the intestines to pull. There's like a cart with all their balloons. longings on it that Shawnee Smith places in the middle of the room for no reason other than to have this scene where Cecilia pulls the cart over using the intestines and grabs her cell phone. She makes a quick phone call. You don't see who she calls and you don't understand it

because she's speaking Norwegian over the phone. And this is where Amanda uses the shock collar. This is where you see that they have those. It's later revealed that she called Parker. I believe yes. Yes. Because he's very soon after that like banging on the door like this is right here. You said that you were going to get my cancer away and I still have the dick-sized cancer in my throat. Your scammers, I still got the knob in me throat. I've come to get me money back, you thieves. It's now a knob and shaft in there.

And you think that Jigsaw, you know, John Kramer is like, oh, that happened to me right this way, sir. Oh, a friend. Finally another friend. I do love the way that they like, allow him entry though. It's like the door opens, he walks in, and he sees a pig mass person standing

there, and he shoots the pig mass person, and the head falls off because it's Valentina's corpse. There is so much corpse play in this movie with this poor woman. Oh my God. Valentina specifically, like, she almost gets raped and then

has the most gruesome death, and then on top of that has her fucking severed head shot by this lunatic. Oh, sorry, we were playing a little weakened at Bernice with her. And don't forget the intestines. My God, the intestines. Oh, yeah, they really fucking hate this one.

You see a lot of this girl. And, you know, he's like, they're all con artists. My new good friend, Parker Sears. And, like, he fills him in on everything. And he's like, he's basically right now trying to amandify Parker Sears. Like, let him into the fold, you know. Well, it seems like,

I'm offering you a chance to do something significant with your life, blah, blah, blah. But I think he really was gutted for Gabriela to be the new Amanda that doesn't come to pass. Well, I already, I turned one drug addict and that seemed pretty easy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know what? I should have given her the head trap too. That was the problem. I got all fucking ambitious with the radiation gun.

I should have just gone with my instincts and done the head trap again. Oh, this is where the face tasing happens. because Mateo, unfortunately, calls Amanda the C word. And she's like, oh, yeah, tasers to the face. Yeah. Very fun. Yeah. So, you know, this is the next thing up here is Billy the puppet making his appearance

because John has been like, all right, Gabriella's next. And Amanda is like, if I'm doing things, you're making me do everything. I'm saying that the fake anesthesiologist is who's up next. And so finally, you got this guy through customs man, Billy the puppet and his tricycle making appearance in this movie. It's a gift for my nephew. I work for a traveling rent fare, actually, and we do some plays with Billy.

Yes, Billeth is what I call him. Yeah, I know it's freaky looking. It's a religious figurine. So, you know, they're all weird looking and stuff. I mean, don't pay it no mind. You can't just be all punching Judy. There has to be a third character out there, right? Jeff.

Jeff. Jeff the puppet. Punch Judy and Jeff. No, I guess we would be Billy, though. Is Billy the puppet, like, they just call it that in the fandom verse or like James Juan said something? I think that's a James Wan thing. I don't know for sure, but that sounds like it's not like he's ever saying, Billy, it's Billy time.

No, no, it doesn't. It should totally. it should be Billy time at some point It's Billy time Yes please It feels like something like That's what the actual doll Behind the scene

So how I mean he's a great civil engineer How does it pedal itself Oh there's a little mechanism in there Oh I bet there is Something something civil engineer Yeah yeah yeah Well so it brings out this cart With the tape for Mateo

And it's got some little other trinkets there Little medical devices and what I do love Mateo because he is saying what the audience is thinking, which is what the fuck is that? Which is a very funny line to me. And so yes, here's the tape. And this is, man, a lot of

steps to these jigsaw traps in this movie, I have to say. This one is Mateo has to do brain surgery on himself. He has to cut open his own skull. Which, no, it's not happening. Sorry, John. Put the fucking heat lamps in my face. Yep. Electrocut my neck until I'm

roasted like a fucking overdone hot dog dude because I'm not doing this. Close up this mask and kill me. I'm not playing your game. I know you want me to be better or whatever, but I'm dying today. That's the thing. This whole franchise overestimates the amount of people that would even do any of this. Like, are you kidding me, man? Like at the end of this, like, sure, a bunch of pain comes my way, but then I don't have to worry about bills ever again. All right. Which is why the first, the first trap that was the fake out is kind of the most, you know, yeah, okay, I'll break all my fingers. So my

eyeballs don't get sucked out. But this trap, I'm not going to saw my skull open and take out a piece of the skull and take out a piece of the brain and then put enough in a jar. Oh, so you're selfish. You could have, you could so easily heal from your wounds here. Yes. But you, you wouldn't do that. You would rather die. You're so selfish. I'm the selfish one. Yeah. He is spouting a whole bunch of nonsense that sort of sounds like he's trying to convince this guy. He's. he may turn into some sort of like brainiac superhero kind of thing because he's like, you know, Mateo,

plenty of people over the years have lost large swaths of their brain. I mean, even like a whole hemisphere, just gone. And then the brain rewires itself and sometimes better, stronger, faster. I said the same thing to Bill Maher on his show last night.

That's a sawtrap watching Bill Maher. Oh, fuck, dude. Yeah. In this universe, if things said swung differently, John Kramer would have definitely appeared on real time with Bill Maher at least once. After the Architecture Digest Awards gave him his

fucking big award. Well, actually, holy shit. Now I'm thinking, so like, remember in that not great scream three, how it's like, scream goes to Hollywood and whatever. Dude, Saw goes to Hollywood. And yeah, he won some civil engineer

award or whatever the fuck. He's going on all these talk shows, but then the traps are like the writing staff and host of some shitty talk show that he's on. Honestly, you're hitting all the fucking MAGA points. Mexico, first off,

want to go to Hollywood next? Let's do it. Honestly, that makes sense to me. So, yes, he has to you know, pluck a bunch of fucking brains out like it's pieces of sashimi and dump it in this

these enzyme thing. and something something, this will close the circuit and not kill this guy. I don't understand how this one. Roast me, King, like actually, literally roast me. It's always like the problem,

it's so heartbreaking because Valentino almost got it. This guy almost gets it, but it's like arbitrary that like it's within a few seconds. It's a few seconds too late. Yeah, it just goes to show. If you ever put in a fucking sawtrap,

do not hesitate. Well, no, you know what? You're not thinking this through. because chemo takes three minutes every day. It only takes three minutes. It doesn't, you know, that's what I don't get his equipment. I mean, that's why he's fucking crazy and like a bad person.

But like we also have to think of him as a good person. Is that like, yeah, of course, like three minute thing is bullshit. And he just wants to kill these people. Yes, it's just a real thing. It's just to kill people. Oh, I didn't do it. It was the monster machine that I built, but I don't do it. I only had three minutes to get over my cancer.

So why haven't they gotten over their soul cancers or whatever the fuck? It would make more sense if he was doing chemo to himself, right? Exactly. Like just anything to make this fake sense. You know how you go to the doctor's office and they put you down into that machine and they say chemo yourself in three minutes? It's easy. Easy piece. I mean, you know, it would be kind of great if, you know, we've got the situation. The dude, like, Mateo looks at the clock, and he's like, all right, look, man, I appreciate my life.

I do have the will to live, and I will do this, but three minutes is unacceptable. I've never carved a hole in any skull, let alone my own skull. This is going to take some time. I've got to psych myself up. How about, I don't know, six minutes? Give me six minutes, I'll figure it out. Quote Val Kilmer from Alexander. Jigsaw be reasonable.

Wow. That is a weird pull. I rewatched the director's cut really good movie. I have always been mean to see that. It is something else, man. I only saw the theatrical in theaters. Much like Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven, the theatrical is bad.

The director's cut is great. Oh, I'm fingers crossed on Napoleon. Me too. Oh, man. That would be so great if we get a new cut. Yes. I would really love to see that. Supposedly four hours. I don't know where it is.

Yes. Wow. Yes, please give me that. So, yeah, he does the skull thing. And I have to say, at least jigsaw, you know, John Kramer, courteous enough to do the head shaving already. There's a little bit of an outline. And for his first time carving into a skull,

that's also his own skull, this dude is precise. I was pretty impressed. All that vet school stuff, dude. Oh, right. Comes right back. Even though you're watching, you're doing it through like a camera. But, yeah, I mean, he just barely misses and he gets roasted, right up who toast her face uh and uh that that's that and like pretty quickly from that we're

going to gabriella like it's almost immediate yes yes the chain start pulling her up and she's being exposed to the radiation she's tasked with breaking like her hands and her legs to get out of it she's got to pull a uh a gerald's game basically while hanging from this apparatus while it's some sort of huge heat lamp yeah that is turned on her and she's got to like bang her foot and hand out of these chains or whatever

Cecilia this whole time through all of these people has been like the cheerleader like you can do it you have to do this thing blah blah and I'm like I don't know like if these are all people who assisted me in my scam here

I would kind of be fine with them just being picked off one by one with this I would not be cheering for them Later on she was like It was good actually Because it's less people to split the money with Right Yeah

Now it's just me and Parker Sears Get all the fucking all the money Parker Sears Yeah Which it's so yeah Gabriela is trying very hard Doesn't he like She fails but doesn't they like

Aren't they like Get an ambulance she could still make it Yes no she no she does She does make it She will it's this is the one first of all where she's like, fuck you, I'm not playing that tape and throws it across the room.

And then you see John Kramer like he's speaking into this PA microphone and it's just him reading the script that he wrote. Because there's definitely multiple times of Tobin Bell looking down and he can only be looking down at the desk because notes are there and he's giving, like you see him give an actual jigsaw speech

that you normally just hear through the tape recorders or the puppet or whatever. Why doesn't he do that usually? He's like, no, no, no, no. I need to have evidence. Well, I would love that If he's like he's reading He's like much like Godzilla

In the nation of Japan He's like oh this is the old draft I deleted all of this the first time It's supposed to be about cancer now Look around yourself graduates You have just graduate from the Civil Engine Oh wait no this was my commencement speech When I got an honorary degree

At BCU So she fucking Cecili's like start with your foot Because then you'll be able the swing out of the way, the thing. She bashes her own foot. And then John Kramer just can move this heat lamp directly lined up with her again.

Oops. But she does win, you know, she falls down or whatever, and John Kramer says to Amanda, drop her at the hospital. And then this is where, uh-oh, Parker Seals pulls a gun, because he's just been lying about being a double.

He is indeed a double. And this is like, I you know I die for you, baby, and he's like making out with Cecilia. I was bloody in on it, mate. God damn it. And this is really the... This is brutal. The reveal to the actual end of this movie to me takes so much time to get...

This is where I'm like, you could have cut this down to the nice 100 minutes and we would have been fine. Yep, absolutely. Important to point out, though, now that Parker Sears and Cecilia have the upper her hand. John Kramer and Amanda are both like, this woman needs medical attention. And Cecilia's like, not if I have anything to say about it. And she literally steps on this girl's throat until she breaks her neck. Awesome. Awesome. That's just like John Kramer being like, actually, she really needs some help. No, no. I, yeah, I baked her face for five minutes. It's great. It reminds me of Star Trek 3 with Christopher Lloyd being like, because you wish it.

Yeah, that's right. Why won't you take her to the hospital? Because you wish it. Exactly. You just got to kill her to get back. This is good to get back at Jigsaw because fuck your stupid game, bro, you know? Yeah, I do like that. Um, you know, so Parker puts John in his own trap here. Now the shoe's on the other foot. And, you know, they're like, oh, well, who else? It's a, it's a big, like, chain thing that requires two people. Who's going to be other person. Oh, would you look at that? Look who's outside kicking a soccer ball against the factory wall. Little young Carlos here. Yes. So we go out. We fucking get this kid. But he's innocent. He didn't do anything. And it's just like, he never did drugs. Yeah, exactly. So he shouldn't be

killed. You're a murder, murdering dipshit, John Kramer. Come on. This fucking false morality that he keeps up being like, you'll understand it at some point. I swear to God. Uh, so. bad Cecilia delivery here she's like telling him you know oh once I figured out who you were blah blah blah blah and she's like your jig fucking saw and I was like that sucks

that super fucking sucks also like this moment when you're like an hour and 47 minutes into this slightly under two hour movie only then is someone in this world like oh I'm aware of the jigsaw killer it just seems like a little too late in the game

for the movie to acknowledge that he's so renowned that this Norwegian con artist slash doctor or whatever would know of his existence you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. No thank you. But all right, so everyone is disgusted that she wants to kill this little kid and we sort of get him on this thing

and he's like, okay, you know, don't no halar that's what he keeps saying this kid like don't pull the thing like let it all happen to me or whatever and you're like what could this thing possibly be and it's basically

they're waterboarding each other depending upon whose lever is pulled where but this is it's worse than jig fucking saw is when Cecilia just goes not waterboarding huh bloodboarding

I was like that's the worst line of the business no thank you where is this blood from Is it from the pigs? I mean, some of it should have been John Kramer's like, I found that blood you were going to pour down the drain.

Yeah, I, you're another great point. Where is this blood coming from? And if there's this much blood, you have to set it up. Oh, no, this wasn't an old chemical factory. This is an old slaughterhouse or a closed for the holiday slaughterhouse. In fact, that's why that's how you get your fucking pig masks and your blood supply.

Well, this is a little awkward since Carlos is here, of course, but I put his father in a barrel with a bunch of lime and I just turned him into liquid blood. And that's what's pouring all over your face right now. I appreciate the seesaw here, you know, up and down.

Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty, as far as saw traps go, it's a pretty interesting one. it's the two person ones are always kind of like you know like there's the one with the the two guys big guy and little guy whichever that one is and they like beat the shit out of each other and there's also two girls one cup

that was one of the greatest jigsaw traps of all time was two girls one cup yeah he's sneaky that John Kramer hello ladies I want to become infamous on the internet classically shit goes in a toilet you've been talking shit why don't you start eating it it is kind of funny

that Amanda is only yelling at them to stop this whole thing when the blood is going on to Kramer's face when the little kid is getting it this girl is dead silent and then as soon as John Kramer's getting and she's like

you gotta stop the madness it's because you know for a fact they didn't show it of course but like John Kramer's first few tests were definitely on like 17 and 18 year olds like who were like skateboarding and no skateboarding thumbs

and he was like that's enough they have to be fucking gutted now oh hey there Justin did you see that sign that says no loitering I guess you didn't because you and your friends were loitering outside the circle you lived your life as a loiterer

oh you kids have some frosty tall boys I'm not going to kidnap the man that bought them for you but I will kidnap you as if enough people head and figure out what's going on you've got

Parker Sears and Cecilia in this control room and he's like I can't believe they fell for it fucking idiots and they start making out and I'm like yep most of the audience probably got this 10 minutes ago but that's fine and he's got this throwoff line of like

oh hey Cecilia like if this seesaw trap was yours like who's supposed to be on the other side of that plank with you. And she's like, oh, whatever. It doesn't matter. Here's that bag of money. And she pulls it off this shelf. And uh-oh, red alarm, lights go out. The saw theme starts playing. Look, when you start hearing that song, you know you're totally fucked. Yeah. And there is a gas that is pouring into the room that just melts the flesh off your body. Essentially, it burns you pretty badly. And Kramer has gotten free and is like, look,

I guess this is the tape still where he's like, look, there's one hole. It's a hole in an air-free spot. A head hole, which I thought the twist at the end, I thought it was going to be a guillotine or something. Yes, that's what I thought. Oh, that would have been super fucking funny. Could you imagine that? Well, but we got to, we're building out a new universe here, Eric. We got to, you know, we got to build out a new villain so we can't kill her right yet.

Right. Which, you know, I appreciate, I guess, in some level. Well, because I, if this was her death, like, she just gets her head cut off, come on. She's the most evil there. Like, come on. True. I need her to be ripped apart. Like, I really do need that. If we're going to do this, if we're going to play this game.

Sounds like we just sold a ticket for Saw 11 here. I mean, everybody who is on this podcast currently is seeing Saw 11. Yeah, well, we're obligated to shit or exactly. But, yes, she sticks her head in it. There's a little bit of a fight, but of course, Parker Sears succumbs to being gas burned. Yes, yes. There's a struggle. Well, she stabs him in the.

You got that too, yes, of course, yes. And Kramer and Shawnee Smith and beautiful little Carlos, who are covered in shit in blood. Oh, man. It is disgusting. Walk out into the beautiful sunshine. Let's get you home, Carlos. Maybe a shower first.

You know what? I'll settle for a fucking hose. Is there a hose anywhere in this facility? And he's going to give him the money, presumably, with this bag. Oh, he does. Yeah, he gives him the money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what?

I was, I'll give this to you and your father. Oh, sorry, I killed your father because he gave a 16-year-old a cigarette. So that's, you know, I had to cut his head off. Sorry, I'm sorry, Carlos, but here's some money. Your father was walking into the Circle K and some teens asked him to buy them cigarettes and he complied. Yes. So I melted his body digitally.

Your little dog named Pepito, the pooped on the sidewalk and he didn't pick it up. So, of course, I had to liquidate him. Yeah, he didn't curb his dog so I. curb stomped him and also turned him into blood jelly and now he's all over us we're covered in your father

they leave this fucking chemical factory and they leave that puppet behind pretty great calling card I have to say no questions asked as to who was responsible with this because he's apparently world famous as the jigsaw killer well yeah and I do I mean

I when I said hit the road. I was thinking more of like about Kramer you know he goes to see his daughter get wedded to some crazy family he doesn't like but I'm also into this trip to Greece

kind of situation. If we are doing this internationally now like I would like to see where like what is it like to watch him in Italy like is he going to connect with the old P2 people and really figure out what to do? If we get a sequel where he gets to wear like a little straw hat meat spaghetti. Oh, man. I'm going to be so thrilled. Dude, some squid. He gets some charred squid

for sure. You just, you guys just figured it out. You turn these movies into the white lotus. Yeah, yeah. Every movie, he's just in a different exotic location. But dispatching people. It's very important though. Each time he thinks he's getting a special procedure that's going to save him from cancer. And he keeps on fucking ago because he's, an idiot. Saw 11 colon still falling for it. A dumb ass motherfucker because like Eric

can I ask you, when you see these people in this warehouse with these contraptions on them, is this what you think that people who like get on you for mispronouncing

Star Wars names are trying are going to do to you? No, no, no. That's what I'm going to do to them. Okay. Because, yeah, I would be, it would be very funny to me. It was like, you, you didn't say a moron assholio correctly. And you actually mispronounced his father, a dumb guy, fuck shit. Oh, well, people, people get upset because, you know, they hear it one way in their head cannon or they played a video game. And that's, it's just, the thing is, people just have to say stuff. People have to be opinionated. Yes, of course. They just have to, you know, it, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's just. leaves their mark. They have to leave their mark. I can't wait for the Gleap Gloucery episode on scumbag assholio or whatever you call that might be next month. We'll see. We'll see. Good idea. Yeah, but that's that's it. They walk off into the sunset. It's a really awkward like the title card

just comes up. It's very unbees. Artie. It's artie as shit. And I don't, I do not like it. I thought I was watching after Yang for a second. Absolutely. That's the, it's an 824 thing. I would like it if that was the actual end of the movie, but it's not. You're right. We got a little bit of a stinger here. So it's like they walk off into the sunset. You got about 30 seconds of,

Darnet, darn it, darn, da, bap, so. And then it cuts back. Uh-oh. We're in the famous fucking bathroom. And here's Kramer with Henry Kessler. He's all tied up. Costas Mandilor is there. He's located him, you know.

And dude, Mandy lore is pretty funny right here. He's like, Out of all the men to cheat, you pick John Kramer. I call that epic bad luck. You see, the movie takes place in the past, and we're still saying epic a lot. Right, okay, yeah, then that makes sense. Sure.

And this dude's all tied up and he's got a little device on his gut. And he's like, oh, where's your battle scar there, buddy? That's all gone, huh? Savini did a good cleanup job on that. and you see him out of the horse's mouth itself John Kramer says I want to play a game

there you go but here's my thing about that I want to play a game he turns this device on and this dude starts screaming I was like is this a game or is this just like we're killing this dude kind of sounds like he's just being murdered

I think we're going to find out next in the next movie I think this is probably what's going to open the movie saw 11 still falling for it still getting scams. These saw movies love that connective tissue. Like the door closes on the detective, but he's in the next movie, et cetera, et cetera.

I bet you what's going to happen is you're going to open the next one with the useless detective is going to find Michael Beach's body and you're going to get the flashback to whatever happened with the fucking belly eater or whatever it was. Yeah, you're totally right. And I got to say also,

Costas Mandy lore, you know, dude's looking great. He is. Still look totally like, detective, whatever the fuck. Like, so if you're bringing this guy back into these movies after all this time, fine, whatever, whatever. Hoffman, Mark Hoffman.

That's right. That's right. But that is going to do it. That's the end of Saw X. I'm sure we are, of course, not done with the Saw franchise. But final thoughts on this motion picture, Eric Sisko? Yes. No, I think I do think this is the best Saw movie.

I did. It's a light recommend to not recommend. I don't really like the franchise. much. I find it a little too dirty for my tastes. Like a more clean kills. This rusted equipment just gets tiresome. Warehouses

get tiresome. But now it's a warehouse in a different country. I appreciate the setup of getting there. I would love more shots outside. This movie delivered some shots outside, which we don't usually get in this franchise. So yeah, it's a light recommended. I think it's the best of the series.

Chris, we'll let you go last. I'll just say because Eric kind of summed up how I feel about it. It is kind of a light recommend for me because it's the most of these movies that feels like a movie. And yeah, you know, with part one, it is, if you forget that a bunch of other movies

happen after it and totally are convoluted and filled with weird structures and flashbacks and pointless twists, if you just look at that first one as like a weird, isolated little indie horror movie, I think that's the way to sort of remember that first movie. But this just feels like more of a movie, despite all of its flaws. It's just like we're ditching single location stuff.

We're ditching cops being 30 minutes behind the movie. John Kramer's actually out and about. And it's like, you know, I've said this before on other things. But I think Tobin Bell is a good actor. And it's just refreshing to see a movie in this franchise that has made him a household name to some degree. You know, and he actually gets to act in it. And he's not just laying in a hospital bed and doing these like pointless flashbacks. an actual story of him.

And yes, it's goofy as fuck, but they all are. Chris Cabin, final thought. Well, before we get to my actual thoughts, I do, if you are, you are, it sounds like you're a very big Tobin Bell fan. He did have another film in 2023 with the Randy Couture called Clown Motel. What?

Tell me of Clown Motel. It is a horror film, and it is, it's just, Randy Couture and Tobin Bell, who is in like faded clown makeup on the cover. It's I haven't seen it yet. I just saw the, I was looking at two Tobin Bell's

filmography, and it was right towards the top. And holy God, am I not watching that movie? But maybe Eric will, maybe Andrew will. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. We'll see. Well, wait, just hang on a second. It's got Toll Road in it. Come on. Randy Couture, Tobin Bell,

also Richard Greco in this movie. And here's the logline. When Alma returns home to help her family get their Native American heritage recognized, all she finds is the world famous clown motel that has been erected on their land. Yes. Oh, I'm going to watch this movie.

This is based on what there's an actual clown motel out west that's like weird or something. Is that true? Yeah, Nevada. It's like a it's like a freak show stop there on your way somewhere kind of thing. I would suggest actually going to the place rather than watching

whatever this film is. But hey, trivia, the production crew for clown motel actually stayed at the real clown motel during the production. Oh, there you go. There's the answer to your question right there. Yeah, I just, I don't like these movies. Like the, it is more well made than

these usually are, but I do attribute that to them trying to find a new way to continue this on. And what I like about franchises is that like, for the most part, the best ones are the ones that have really stuck around are killing machine. Like, they're not, like,

trying to explain themselves. They're not, like, the one that's trying to explain himself the most is fucking pinhead. And, like, he has some cosmic horror to deal with. There's, there's some actual ambition to, like, talk about spirituality and things like that. That, to me, is more interesting than just this weird moral idea that John Kramer is. And I don't appreciate it. I find it, like, it slogs everything down. It means we have to talk more. It means we have to explain ourselves more. And it just isn't what I like from horror. Even the like, quote unquote, like, smart or elevated horror, that's not what I like about it. And I find that this just kind of is like, well, we've got to do something new because the other stuff has kind of been spent and we kill our fucking character.

So we have to find a new way to do it. So we're going to just try a little, it's going to look a little better, you know, it's going to, we're going to try to build a new story out of this. And like, I don't know how it's going to unravel because I'm sure we're going to be explained quite. a lot of how it unravels, but I don't know. I cannot stand these movies. These movies bug me. I think they're kind of full of shit in a way. I agree with you. I mean, I don't really like them either, but I thought this was a more watchable one. It is, it is undeniably a more watch. This and Jigsaw are the most watchable ones. They look good. I just can't get behind this story. And I can't get behind John Kramer. It's just not in me. So you're not voting John Kramer.

for president. Hey, you know what? If he's a VP pick, who knows? He just got like 60% in Iowa. So I think it's happening. John Kramer's happening, dude. But that is going to do it for this episode on Saw X, which brings to a close our month of talking about

some of the most confounding stuff from last year. But if you are listening to this on Patreon at the $8 level or up, that means you are listening to this commercial free. That's right. Ad free. We hate movies. on the Patreon, where you will also find more

we hate movies like this month's we love movies selection all about Oppenheimer, a movie that I'm sure now is destined for Hollywood's biggest night. Appie Update, by the way, I've now seen it for... Oh, nice. Yes, it is... It's a great movie. It's a lot of... It's, our conversation's a lot of fun. It's almost three hours long. So

perfect companion piece for your rewatch before the Academy Awards. Also, I should say, This Thursday night, turn into our digital worldwide experience. It's going to be live. We're doing an episode live that you can listen to and watch live on The Flash. Yes, indeed. Ooh, that's right. So while we are done technically with confusing and disappointing movies from last year on the feed,

we got one more for you talking the Flash, that's going to be a lot of fun. And of course, if you can't make it Thursday night live, replay is available for seven days after that moment. dot co slash we hate movies for those tickets. Do not forget to tune into the after party as well where we get a little drunker, a little higher, and we answer some questions. That's right. Those are always a lot of fun. So do not miss that stuff. Let's see. What else we got? Eric, what were we doing on animation, damnation this agent Elvis. Now, this is a cartoon about Elvis, who's a

spy of sorts. Yes. Sure. You had a monkey companion. It's a lot of, that's a fun episode. It's a big honkid one and we have a really good time with bullshitting about that premise. And on the Gleepe glossary, we're doing Lady Valerian. This is our Star Wars sideshow where we talk about expanded universe characters that time has sort of forgotten. And this one, we settle a bet.

Oh, yes, we do. The bet is settled and it is fucking great. You do want to do not want to miss that. And, of course, Melrode 210 and the Nexus out this month, as always, our journey through all of that television recap business continues. Now, of course, Steve Sadek down to Mexico for some bogus medical treatment. We don't yet know if he knew he was getting scammed, but we knew he was getting scammed and let him go anyway. Because Steve's an adult and can make his own decisions, folks, all right? But Chris Cabin, if Steve were here, I would say next week the show continues.

We Hate Movies back to our regularly program schedule. What motion picture we'll be talking about next week? We will finally be talking about blasts from the fucking past. Brendan Frazier, Christopher Walken, Alicia Silverstone, a time travel. I guess it's a time capsule movie more than time traveling movie. Time Caps is a good way to sum it up. It's more like what that is. It is a horror show and we cannot wait to talk about it and remember what it's about otherwise.

Yeah, I watched this for the first time maybe. seven or eight months ago and I kind of don't super remember. Don't remember. No. Do not remember. It's been a while. Also, don't forget, folks, April 25th will be in Atlanta, Georgia doing a live podcast.

We'll be doing a live podcast also in Houston, Texas, May 14th and Austin, Texas, May 15th. Tickets and all information, you can find at WHMpodcast.com. Click on tour and come out and see us. And get your calls in tomorrow. Listener request month.

Get your calls in. it ends tomorrow folks if you're listening to this the day it's released tomorrow is the last day to get your calls in for listener requests month 2024 oh yeah that's of course you know the the month of march you tell us what to watch both on the we hate movies feed here and on all the patreon stuff so all of that information you probably heard on a bumper at the beginning of this unless you listen to it ad free in which case we have posted all the information on a patreon post on the patreon platform so you can get that stuff there. But that's going to do it for this week, gang. Until next week, we're talking blast from the past. I've been Andrew Jupin. Eric Siska. Chris Cabin. Take it easy. Thank you.