We Hate Movies - S4: WHM Summer Rerun: Rocky IV

Episode Date: August 26, 2014

On this WHM Summer Rerun, the gang looks back at the time they got in the ring with Rocky IV! Everyone agrees that Paulie is Cinema's Greatest Loser. Rocky is out of control arrogant in this movie. And the stones on Stallone to have his titular pugilist essentially end the Cold War by giving a sappy end-of-match speech! Rocky IV stars Sylvester Stallone, Dolph Lundgren, Talia Shire, Carl Weathers, Burt Young, Tony Burton, Brigitte Nielsen; directed by Sylvester Stallone. Unlock Exclusive Content!: http://www.patreon.com/wehatemovies

Hey, everybody, this is Chris, here to introduce my pick for my pick for WHM Classics. My pick is Rocky 4 Because it is fucking ridiculous It's a preposterous movie It is It's a quarter of a movie Of original footage Maybe a quarter

And then the rest of its montages It's insane It's absolutely insane Sounds like the perfect movie for me Well it is all you know Because I know you have all the Stallone posters on your wall And I know that just seeing all of that footage Of sly is really

Exactly what you want Oh, my God. But, yeah, I find this movie really, I didn't even follow the, it took me a while to see Rocky. It took me a while to see the sequels. And when I finally came to this movie, I remember being, like, so confused by how anybody allowed this. Was the first time you saw it, like, when we did it for the show? I had seen, well, I had seen, like, parts of it, because, you mean, fucking AMC and T&T back in the day, they were making their bread and butter off of, Oh, it's the fucking, you know, holiday weekend.

All the Rockies over and over and over again. Before Mad Men, there was Rocky Money. All kinds of Rockies on it. So they kept the lights on it, AMC. So you said you came to this movie. What, what's seen? What? That's what we like to call it a dirty joke.

I came at the robot scene. It was, I mean, it was the height of it all. It's all, you know, the arousal. This was another, this was another popular episode with the fans, though. The fan reaction to Rocky 4 was a pretty good. Yeah, so this is a little fan service. I think this is one of those ones that universally everybody knows to be just a really, like a stinker. Like, just stay away from it.

This is a bad one. Yeah. But a lot of people have seen it and a lot of people defended, I guess, you know, ironically because it's so bad. Well, this was another one of our like, how dare you do Rocky 4? It's like, dude, fucking put it away. Yeah. It's fucking Rocky 4. Have you watched the fucking movie?

There's a fucking dancing robot in it. So put it away. There's a dancing-talking robot that helps celebrate a birthday. And Polly's still hanging around for reasons that have absolutely no place. Because he hasn't died yet. That's why. I have no place in logic, these reasons. You'll hear a lot more of this on this episode.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, what's that? Oh, I'm just reminding folks, if you don't know, stick around to the end. We'll be back to do a little outro. Yeah. Say a few more thoughts. A couple of final thoughts as Jerry Springer used to say. Yeah.

We now join We Hate Movies already in progress. We've never started out with a sequel. To be fair, this is Rocky 3.5. This isn't exactly a 4. It's not a 4. It's barely a 3.5. 3.2999. It is 1985s, as Steve said, Rocky 4, written and directed by the Autour, Sylvester Stallone.

It's got all of his trademarks all over it. It's the fingerprints of Celestrian. The feet-up style of directing. You know, montages, footage from previous films, montages, him working out, montages. He is always, when he was a director, he was always waiting for that five o'clock whistle, like, whatever we're done for today.

He is a clock-punching director, like nobody's business. The set of the expendables, they never miss lunch. Are you kidding? It is a solid 60 minutes. You're off the clock. You're eating and then you're on the clock. No bones about it. Well, that's what union guys don't want to work with them because they never get over time.

Oh, no, absolutely not. Are you kidding me? That's why he keeps getting to direct so many movies because he is just on budget. He is on budget. He is on time. The movie's never late. No. Certainly not over budget.

he's the he's the the earth day director we could call him right the recycler if you will so i mean out there in in listenerland everybody's seen rocky four i don't think like we pick some movies every once in a while and everybody's like oh my god i never heard of this movie

how did you find this movie you can find rocky four well i mean it's on amc every other day it used to be on t and t it's on tb if you've ever owned a basic cable package you've seen Rocky for at least three times. One hundred percent. I saw this movie played on Christmas Day. Like, now they do the whole things because everybody loves like

24 hours of a Christmas story and all that horse shit. Now they started expanding that into like, on Christmas Day, on TNT, all the Rocky movies for you to watch it and enjoy. Fucking AMC does that with every movie under the sun. Like, they have die, you can't get enough die

hard, and it's 24 hours of die hard. It should be Can't program enough die hard. Totally. You want to talk about feed-up directing. How about fucking feed-up television programming? Well, this movie, to me, is a classic patchwork movie. It's one of those movies where I saw patches of it throughout my lifetime, and this actually

was the first time I saw it from start to finish. Oh, really? I've seen... I've seen every single scene we watched. Right. Every single one of them. Yes. But I saw them at disparate times in my life.

Like one when I was like seven, one when I was 12, the sad times, the good times. I didn't see the greatest montage of all time until about a year ago. The ending of the John Updike book that is your life is there was nothing to Rocky for at all. You finally watched it. It was, oh, it's all empty. There was nothing there. And then I just let go of pen and pass out. Is your story over?

Is that what we're talking about here? all right so basic plot premise of this movie it is the gaudy year of 1985 and everybody loves to be american i think that's like the first line of this script like honest to god well the first thing we see is it's like the shitty like 1980 super bowls where you would see two helmets crash into each other this one has an american like american uh american uh boxing glove crash into a Soviet Union boxing glove and exploding!

No, totally. I thought I was watching the last five years of the Bud Bowl. So we get an explosion and then, much like my favorite Superman movies, it's like previously on Rocky. It just goes, like, you just see a montage of what Rocky 3 was.

You're like, okay, this is a little helpful. Like, it's a fine credit sequence. Like, now I'm caught up. You know what, though? My one beef with the previously on Rocky that I have with Rocky 4, not a mention of that Hulk Hogan fight at the beginning of Rocky 3rd. Thunderlips. Thunderlips is the most ridiculous thing Hulk Hogan's done outside of a Hulk Hogan starring movie. I also have a problem with it being previously on Rocky when the

movie itself is previously on Rocky. Oh, we'll get into that, which is just the entire film as montages. So when we get caught up to speed with what Rocky's been up to, it's basically just like at the end of Rocky too, you know, when Rocky and Apollo have a newfound respect for each other and they're kind of having like hey, let's like, you know, spar in the ring and have a, you know, really see who's the best. That's how it is and we're treated to a lot of that

like relationship, right? Like their friendship. Yeah. Right. They're talking about how, you know, like they're watching their first fight on TV and they're just talking about the glory days and how, you know, we're getting older. We can't do what we used to do anymore kind of a thing. And that's Rocky's point of you know like in his

mind he's made it all like he's he's got the mansion he's got the girl he's got a family his fucking brother-in-law is just hanging on to every dollar he makes living the American dream eating every sausage in his fridge exactly and Apollo's whole thing

is like no you're crazy we can still do what they do you know he later says in the movie like I'm in the best shape of my life which is like you're just kidding yourself as we obviously see later in the movie. But that's basically the idea of this movie is like, when are you, you know, when you're a person who you do one thing your whole life and it's all you know how to do, how do you

stop or get yourself to stop doing your thing? Well, don't start throwing themes around. Like, there are themes to this movie. Well, it's kind of, I'm sorry, there kind of are. Well, it's especially like the body, the body gets old. So an athlete has to go away. Exactly. You become a commentator.

You coach, you train, you like, get on the other end. Maybe you go into, like, the commissioner aspect of it. You train a street fighter that later turns his back on you in a horrific backstabbing fashion like you see in the next time on Rocky. You just take over Tony Burton's role. He's just right there. He's ready to retire. He's ready to retire. But so, all right, so we got, so that's the big, that's the first scene.

And then we go into Pauly's birthday. party. Like, Rocky's a little late for Polly's birthday party. He's wearing his Sylvester Stallone workman cap. And, you know, it's, it's the 1980s, so his son's got a video camera. And it's just, it's one of those things where it's like, Sylvester

Stallone as Rocky, right? Like, he's got all these riches and, you know, his kid can just somehow acquire a 1985 camcorder, and he doesn't know it because he doesn't know where his fucking money's going. Not at all. Nothing like that. I get that out of my face. My soul's getting stolen.

Rocky, the Amish. He is a little afraid of that light. Yeah, he's like a scared cat. He's like, oh, it's a light, you're so bright. Get the light on the case. That's what I don't get is, like, he's been, there's been flashbulbs in his face for the last decade. Do you think it gives him, like, Vietnam flashback syndrome kind of thing?

He knocks his kid out, like, oh, no, it's Apollo again. He's thinking about his mafia taste Oh, they're going to get me He was really bad at being a mafia hitman He was the worst He wasn't a hitman but he was like a tough guy And he just couldn't cut it He's a breaker of thumbs

But he couldn't even break the thumbs No, he couldn't break the second chances I know a couple of friends who are like bigger dudes And like every so often they'd be approached By people to be like Hey you know this guy's giving us a problem Want to beat him up for a thousand dollars And they're like

Ah, not so much See because as Tempenter thing as that is right and if it was like just some scrawny Bronx barber or something like that you beat one guy up you're beating up 50 guys like that you never get out of that and then all of a sudden you're Russell crow in LA confidential and you're beating the shit out of tiny Danny DeVito and feeling really bad about it that is one of the most entertaining scenes in film history see I would always be scared that I would never be able to actually break a thumb like I think I'd maybe be able to strain a thumb?

Yeah, just get it like bent so it's really uncomfortable. And the guy's like, hey, what do you do it? But then I would just get really frustrated at myself. Like, what can't I do it? Come on. I can't even crack my thumb knuckles. You know what I mean? Like, there's those people that do that and I like pussy out at the last second. So Paulie's birthday

part of. So can we just talk about who presents Pauli the birthday cake? Please. The greatest example of 1980s fucking financial excess the robot in this movie no that's not true it's not like every every wealthy person

in america had a robot at this point no but every wealthy person in america had some sort of redonculous thing that they didn't need but they spent thousands of dollars on because they could whether it's like it's it's it's uh it's albert brooks in uh his dead movie oh defending your life yeah defending your life but he's got that big fancy cd player that he doesn't know how to work like 80s excess at its finest. All right, but you're equating a CD player with a fully functioning thinking robot. With a CD player in it. A CD player in the 1980s was like $500.

That's a serious fucking deal. Yes, I understand that a robot is a more serious deal than a CD player, but it's the same line of thinking, right? Like, we have these high-paying jobs. America's never going to end. It's so great. But here's my thing. I don't understand it.

It's not really explained by this movie. It's a classic case of you can't just throw a robot in a movie. Because, like, you need, like, the robot needs a story arc. We need to see the robot being built. We need to know, like, what U.S. robot relations are at this point. Exactly. How many robots are there? There are two kinds of movies in this world.

Movies with robots and movies without robots. Any movie in the Rocky franchise is a movie without robots. It's such bullshit. And it's not a thing where it's. just like your little like robo buddy cassette thing where it's like tummy pops out and you put a tape this is a goddamn sentient being like it's built by ibn yeah play in jeopardy like this robot is the real deal does anybody know what movie made this a thing johnny five in fucking what's it called i think a short circuit might have been after this yeah that's that's what i'm

wondering is because i think short circuit was after this but i mean i don't know like Lost in Space, but that's like sci-fi, but like, again, Lost in Space, a television series in where the world has robots that exists. Look, there was, I mean, obviously, I mean, I guess it's just like fear of computers kind of thing. Star Wars was really popular. Everybody was robots, you know what I mean? Like robots were in a lot of sci-fi movies and that's, they were like popular elements. Like, oh, like, everybody loves that Wisecrack and C-3.O.

You know, the Rocky franchise is getting a little stale. How about a robot, buddy? What? Everybody loves robots. But here's the thing. You put a robot in a Rocky movie. It damn well better be doing more than giving Pauly a birthday cake and babysitting children. Okay.

Like, this guy should be helping Rocky trained. Yes. Ivan Drago gets to use all those fancy computers to help him train. Why can't the robot help him? Or maybe the robot gives him a, like a crucial piece of wisdom at a really opportune point. Like, Rocky's about to give up. And the robot's like, I don't know how. how to give up Rocky.

I'm not programmed that way. At least you understand love. Rocky, you must reformat your heart drive. This just in from the internet ticker, by the way. You're totally right. Short Circuit 1986. A year after this movie, did Short Circuit rip off Rocky Ford? It's a similar design as far as robots go.

Although this robot's a little cleaner. It's very bubbly. It is a bubbly robot. It's kind of a BB. It's totally a BB It's a BB It's kind of like the robot from the Jetsons Rosie

Because you know Much like Rosie Rocky's robot's also like a maid in a way That's true It has its own intro music Oh yeah The whole movie Rightfully so the whole movie stops

Like Rocky's like Oh Polly I got you this great birthday present You're totally gonna shit your pants And it turns the lights off And then like Everything goes weird synth and everything goes

slow and this fucking robot comes out with a birthday cake and says And Polly by the way Is not having this robot Well of all the people you're going to give a robot To in your life We could get into Polly now

He's one of history's greatest Losers He might be Cinema's greatest loser He just might be I'd have to get back to you on it, but it's top five. I don't even think it's top ten.

I know a lot of websites now, and we're going to do this probably next year. I'm going to say next year. We'll give ourselves some time because a lot of websites do those brackets of like, what's the best drama of the last 20 years? Who's the best character? We need to do best loser in cinema and like see who it's, I bet you, Paulie's on top with bloody

knuckles. He has to be. Because you want to talk about a guy that just sucks every ounce of generosity and kindness from everyone around him. Like, he is the pariah of the Balboa family, and I can't stand it.

But, yeah, but that puts him more in line with like a Woody Harrelson and Money Train situation. Here's the big crucial difference. In the first Rocky movie, the best Rocky movie, the legitimate Rocky movie, he ruffs up Adrian, the sweetest most soft-spoken

like character ever. Like, just this very sweet woman that's like, she's kind of like very simple, but very smart. Like, she likes, you know, there's a really nice symbiotic relationship with like Rocky's very strong, she's very weak. And Polly beats her up when she's pregnant because he's a piece of

fucking dog shit. Like that's the lowest thing you can do. That's why you get somebody a robot for a birthday present. Because it's like, here, Polly, figure that out. What are you going to do with a robot? I swear to God, if my fucking

shit-ass brother-in-law beat up my pregnant wife and I got rich and he's living at my house, asking when fucking dinner is. I'm getting him a robot for his birthday. But it's a chopping mall robot with a fucking buzzsaw. And it's going to fucking slit his throat.

That's the thing. It's the happy ending to Rocky. The happy ending would have been him in the street, frozen to death, cold. They leave him in Russia? They should have left him in Russia. No, I mean the original one. Yeah, the original one.

Just frozen on the mean streets of Philadelphia. Oh, oh. I mean, it's. It would not match up time-wise, but, man, somehow if Bruce Springsteen's streets of Philadelphia came on, he's just dead on the side. That's what that character deserves. There's no reason to keep him. He's in all six Rocky movies.

There's no reason to have that hanging up. And here, you want to talk about the most frustrating part of this whole situation? Is that Rocky Balboa? Adrian is dead. And he's still alive. He's still sucking oxygen out of this world. And she is in the cold earth. And Rocky is alone with him.

His kid hates him. And fucking, at that point, Paulie hasn't filed a W2 in 30 years. Because Lord knows he hasn't worked a day in his life since Rocky won that first match. No, deadbeats do not file W2. That is a straight-up. And he hasn't learned a goddamn thing in the entire span of the Rocky universe. he's not even not rough up women

well the other thing about Pauli that's a real conundrum is why Rocky keeps him in his corner because he's not even that knowledgeable about boxing that's the weird thing that's kind of like a weird um the Fons lives with the Cunningham's now kind of a thing because like the series is

going along you gotta just kind of rope everybody in so he's just in the why not he's in the corner because other than that you need to either like cut Polly which you should have done from the movie or like you gotta Give him a subplot, which you don't want. You know what?

Here's what should have happened, okay? Script for Rocky 2. Opening scene of the movie, right? Like, exterior. A line of cars pulls away from a cemetery. This is the Balboa family leaving Pauley's funeral. That's how you just clean up that whole mess. Oh, my God.

No one saw that heart attack coming. And, like, Adrian has conflicting feelings. Like, he used my brother, we just a piece of shit. well that's the end of him that's the end of him so who cares so anyway they back to this robot yeah they throw him this birthday party he gets a robot as a present the movie just goes on doesn't skip a beat no it's like here's a robot as if it's like here's a watch yeah and they present him this cake with his it's one of those cakes with a face on it which i hate but it's awesome in this instance because it looks like polly dressed up like the heath ledger joker it's a really bad

cake decorating job. And it's got a candy cigar coming out of it. Yeah, he just chomps cigars to there is nothing positive to say about Paulie. There's a 99% chance he's hitting Rocky's kid. You know what I mean? Like he's an old Italian guy. The kids fucking ride the kid's like, you know, they show the kid kind of running wild because like he's a rich kid. And he's like riding up and down. He's like, oh, you made me spill by drink you little pieces of shit. And he kits him right in the face. Oh, totally. You never seen with a woman. So you're hoping. he's just hitting them. You're hoping that's where it ends.

You never seen with a woman he's kind of stupid. Yeah. I did it again, Rock. I'm so sorry, Rock. I didn't need to do it again. That's right, Paul. He's a sports car. Do you think, like, I can't imagine.

Because Rocky is so, like, sweet-natured and, like, dumb. And, like, Adrian is kind of a, the history's greatest dormat. Uh-huh. Like, he's just bringing prostitutes over his house and killing. them all the time and they're not having the conversation should he leave yet yeah no absolutely not and let me tell you something the space in that belboa backyard's getting limited by the day well no it's that it's that moment where you go down and you see him near the furnace chucking little pieces of something in there and nobody talks about there's like oh well that's obviously coal or wood

and let's just leave it alone the basement with one of his special projects again Notice how we're not talking about Rocky 4 in any capacity. Don't worry, guys. We're going to catch up to it in five minutes because there's three minutes of story in this movie. There really is three minutes. Like, I'm not, I don't have the facts in front of me on the run times of the other five Rocky movies. There's a good shot. This is the shortest Rocky movie.

This is 91 minutes long. I think it's the shortest one. I mean, there is just nothing to this movie whatsoever. All right. So, uh, with just as much fanfare as the robot. Ivan Drago comes into town played by Dolph Lundran and he's escorted

by some sort of Russian general who we don't really have a name on and Bridget Nielsen who's probably his wife It's his wife. It is his wife, okay. And he just kind of starts talking trash about, he's like, I want to fight, Rocky Balbo is still the champion at this point. Yeah, he's still the heavyweight

chair. Yeah, he's like, I want to fight Balboa, want to fight Balboa, and like, Rocky's like, I'm not going to do that. And Apollo's like, hey, this is my chance. Exactly. This is my chance to prove that I'm not, you know, a washed up old man that should just retire and start coaching boxing. This is my favorite scene of like, oh, we have a bunch of exposition, but we need to get it done in a fun kind of way. We see Apollo Creed like it is pool with like five golden retrievers running after this tennis ball. He's got a pack of dogs and a

smile on his face. And he's like, ooh, something's on the television. He's not swimming with his wife that we see briefly in this movie but he's just swimming with a bunch of dogs there's a thing in 80s movies where like the height of living living on the high horse you're watching a TV from your pool 100% and I don't get it I don't know why

but he's just turned there like he's got a bunch of dogs no white his wife's not there at all here's the thing and if you're really rich that TV's on a floating contraption in the pool with well that's how you knew in Beverly Hills cop too how Axel Foley got the rich people's house. He's just laying there watching TV.

100%. It's the 80s for you. So, yeah. So, like, you know, and Apollo Creed goes to Rocky's house, and he's like, I'm going to do it, Rock. I want you to be in my corner.

I'm going to fight this guy. And Rocky kind of gives him this speech that you were talking about Andrew. Like, you know, we're just, we're too old for this. Rocky's kind of sensible in the beginning of this movie. Yeah. He actually pretty much devolves throughout this film.

He's very, like, sensible, sensitive. like, it seems like Adrian's kind of finally corraled him into being like, look, we've got enough money here. We've built a life. You've done everything an athlete can do. So let's just kind of just kick our heels a bit. Let's buy some robots, everybody. Yeah, exactly. Look at Rocky.

We're buying robots. You know, you got a great personalized license plate on your sports car. Your shitty kid has a video camera that you don't even know who bought it for it. We're swimming in it. You did everything. Look, look, Rocky, your father, like, she's just like, look, Rocky, your father. uh rode a mule in calabria 70 years ago and look at you you bought my shitty brother-in-law a robot just because you could to quote madman you're an astronaut you know like you just you've come

so far you're actually an astronaut i think it's wrong no it's never been more right you're a great fighter but you've been retired for nearly five years don't you think it's time to start thinking about something else i mean how much can you take either of you he is the astronaut of pugilism. It's absolutely true. And so they have this big back and forth and Apollo agrees. He's like, you know, Rocky, no, I'm not going to listen to you. We're going to

do this match. Like, I'm going to prove that I can beat this guy. And they have this press conference that, you know, the Soviet Union looks really good in this movie. Yeah, they come off. You know what? They're cold and whatever, but you're a Russian.

It's whatever. But they are polite. They're patient, they say what they're going to say at that press conference, and then they button up until they get interrupted by Apollo Creed, who starts talking all sorts of shit. He's talking so much trash. And he starts like pushing Dolf Lundgren and all this shit. Dolf Lundgren just stands there and he's like, I will beat you. Yeah. You know, that's what he's there to do. You're there. Like, Brigitte Nielsen's your, your voice

box, you know, she says all the stuff that she's supposed to say about, you know, we're happy to be here. We can't wait to contend. We wish we were fighting Rocky, but whatever, Apollo Creed's a great athlete, and we're going to beat him. And Apollo Creed is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're going to beat me? What the fuck do you think this is? And he starts, like, losing his mind. What did he think he was going to say? What did he think was going to be the end of that?

Was he just going to be like, yeah, I'm not as good as Apollo. Yeah, exactly. I give up. You are at a boxing press conference. The only place they talk more shit between two athletes is at the backstage of the WWE, whatever the hell. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what a boxing press conference is for.

You get weighed in. You know, get chest to chest with somebody. Everybody goes and you kind of talk shit for 20 minutes. And then everybody goes home and the fights the next day. And you just have a good time in Las Vegas. But Apollo Creed takes this so seriously and so personally, him saying, I'm going to beat you. It is, it is the biggest overreaction I've seen it a long time. Well, the thing of it is is like Apollo Creed is obviously modeled on.

Muhammad Ali but Muhammad Ali at the very least was a nice guy do you know what I mean like Muhammad Ali said some terrible things about George for Joe Frazier George Foreman like and those guys still hate him to this day oh yeah but like at the same time like you know like Muhammad Ali just there was a style to it he was kind of clever he was funny about it no Apollucre just a jerk he is he's just a jerk like all the stuff you know all the trash talking that Muhammad Ali would do you know there was like a rhythm to it there was a flow to it like it looked cool yeah this is just like oh what do you mean you said you're gonna win what's that about what do you think it's about you're a boxer well you hold on the lady you hold

on because lose and lose royally he's gonna do how can you be so sure well i've been with the best and i beat the best i've retired more men than social security excuse me you are not very realistic are you mr clinton where have you come from what are you talking about you can box yes but you are far too old to think that you can win over draco is that of fat yes And it could be a painful one. You put that heavy bag with eyeballs in the ring with me, and you're going to see the meaning of pain. Why do you insult us?

Now, you just hold on here. Don't make me out to be the bad guy. I came here to talk about a friendly exhibition bout. Any sport where you're contending for a victory, one team thinks that they can win over another team. And if you go into a bout or a match or whatever, and you don't think that you can beat the other team, you don't deserve to be there because you're not a competitor.

And you're going to lose more than likely. Yeah. And Stallone's there. Stallone's in his corner is going to be his cornerman. Stallone's only job is to be his cornerman. Put that in your fucking cap, everybody. Only responsibility is to make sure the fight stays safe. It's an exhibition match.

It's not for the belt. It's not for anything other than pride. And just sort of like, oh, there's this Russian guy. Like, actually, I read that, you know, the Russians, the Soviets never fought the United States in any kind of boxing match. Like, that was one of the one, like, you know, holdouts. And that's why this movie is a little bit, like, far-fetched in a way. But so it's like, it's in that world.

So it's like, oh, okay, let's see a Soviet fight at an American. And we get to the map. Like, there's no real training montage yet. We're like 20 minutes out of montage. Doing pretty well, everybody. I mean, but that's the other thing about this movie. Like, if there's a portion of the movie where you need a montage, how about something with Apollo, you know, training with Rocky,

Rocky's helping him along get like preparing for this fight it's just I'm going to fight him press conference talking shit and all of a sudden here we are the big day the match in Vegas and now James Brown this is the most lavish over the top Broadway style boxers entrance ever ever in the history of the sport it's the most obnoxious America's ever been yes That's, Stephen Sondheim would have said, take it down a notch. Just everybody, let's calm down a little bit. It is, I mean, like, we've said it on this show a couple times. It's the epitome of ugly American.

You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Brash, nasty, self-indulgent, boisterous, but loud. But the problem is it's not self-aware. Like, what would be, it would be great if that was like, it was trying to critique it a little bit. But, no, this is seen as like, oh, isn't this just fucking? Awesome. Oh, yeah. No, this is, everybody loves America. Like, that's all that's going on here. Though, this does have all of the subtlety of a WW at that time, WWF wrestling match. Like, you know what I mean? It's the Iron Sheik versus Hulk Hogan. And everyone's going, boo, boo! Boo! You're never a different country, boom. Oh, no, 100%. I mean, Apollo Creed is wearing a gigantic Uncle Sam top hat.

A bedazzled. Right up. Yeah, it's bedazzled, and he's wearing it right up until the second the bell rings. Like, he refuses to take that hat off. They knock gloves with the hat on. I don't know. We don't know the budget for this necessarily, but a good portion of it was sparklers. Oh, sparklers, James Brown backup dancer, costumes. James Brown's habits. In quotation. Yeah, it's 1985. he's doing Rocky 4. Somebody needed some money for something.

There were three wranglers for James Bratley. I still don't think, look, I know James likes to party on. I like to party on too. Problem is, I got lunch at 3 p.m. I want to get this shot done by 2 p.m. So Mr. Brown needs to be there. He's got to sing his song and we got to get some coverage. And that's all this is going to be, right, everybody?

We're going to need that $3,000 smile, James. So he comes out. And this is all to introduce Apollo Creed to the ring. It's like seven minutes long. Yeah. Like the lights in the arena come on and Ivan Drago is already standing there. Like I've been here for 45 minutes. No, no, weirdly, I don't even know.

This has never happened to the history of any sport exhibition or otherwise. Ivan Drago goes on, goes to the boxing ring like underground and he's elevated to the. Oh, yeah, you're right. He pulls a total prestige. He just comes up. And no, like, it's all just like, boom! Look at the communists. Well, I got, that's what I hate about it, is that Dolf just, like, looks around like, what's going on here?

You're telling me nobody told him what was going on. And again, Dolf Lundgren comes off completely sympathetic. Like, he's just, like, he's a big imposing guy, but he's just like, oh, I don't know. This was supposed to be the, what is the match happening? Exactly. He's a big imposing guy, but, you know, he doesn't really speak English that well. He doesn't really know what's going on. he's just in this land

where he doesn't know anybody and it's like he's just flashed out in the middle of this huge arena in Vegas everyone's booing the shit out of him and then he's got to stand there and watch James Brown sing

living in America for four and a half minutes and it was just pointing at him and laughing like we're going to kick your ass tonight everyone's going to live forever hating all the communists like it is the most

degrading goddamn thing it is the full version of living in America too it's the first of several

songs that are performed in full in this movie the full studio session well we pay

for we better get our monies worth out of it oh exactly he is getting every penny for everything you're not

going to pay two hundred dollars for the rights to live in America and just do 30 seconds of it you're getting

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by going to rocketmoney.com slash WHM. That is rocketmoney.com slash WHM. Once more, rocketmoney.com slash WHM. For We Hate Movies. So, before the match, Apollo is like, you know, Rocky, this is my big thing. Don't fuck it up for me. And Rocky is just sort of like, well, I'm in this important position, you know, I might throw the towel. He's like, Rocky, don't throw the towel.

Now, I know Apollo's your best friend and everything, blah, blah, blah. But it's your job in that, like, the reason you have a person in the corner is your opinion is more valid than the person in the ring like you that's you're you're supposed to look at them and say this is healthy this is not healthy you're the one who's not getting the shit beat out of you so that's why it's you that throws in the towel and not the boxer deciding when to throw in the towel if the worst thing that happens is that he doesn't talk to you for what a month yeah yes exactly then you take that hit I'm sorry that's just how that goes that's what an adult does but if it's a real friendship he'll come back around and hang out with you and your robot and your shitty

brother-in-law. It's better than that. He's going to come back and be like, God, I was such a dickhead. I'm so sorry. You were so right. Thank you. My heart is beating. Yeah. Thank you for saving my life. My wife baked you a big old cake. A big thank you cake. It's a picture of your face and it looks like you dressed up like the Joker. So, I mean, this is the most gratifying thing in the world because I mean like this, even when I was an eight-year-old kid, this is my favorite. scene-to-scene payoff that's ever having it and it's never been topped yeah it's living in america and then apollo creed is beaten to death in the ring mercilessly i mean if it's one thing you hate in sports it's the overly showboating individuals you know like i don't have a problem with touchdown dancing but when it gets into like choreographed touchdown dancing shut up that's enough you know what I mean and like this is beyond showboating this is riverboat showboating well that's what's amazing about this scene is that and in any other sports movie we do what like even think of

something as small as like mighty ducks it's a bomb base team is the humble whatever and then uh whatever his name's the sharks or whatever the sharks or whoever they're like big pompous get the fuck out of here the rich kids Yeah, and they're making a showboat about coming on the ice. And for some reason, they flipped the script completely in this situation, though I'm not conceding there was a script. You want to see pages first? It was like seven pages mixed into like a photo album of screenshots from the other movies. I have not been completely convinced it's not on bar napkins.

From multiple bars. From Muldoons. Oh, yeah. But you're right, though, because, I mean, this is Rocky. Rocky is based on the underdog. Like, that's the whole fucking point of the movie is, like, Rocky's the underdog in every movie somehow, and then he wins. And that's great.

Yeah. Or except in the first movie, where he loses, and that's why it's the best movie. But so he gets beaten to, he's getting beaten to death, and Rocky keeps looking at the towel, like, uh, Hey, tell me what to do, towel. You want to get thrown, or you not want to get thrown? And fucking, uh, Creed's point. Poor fucking age-appropriate wife is just, just crying in the stands.

Like, please throw in the towel, Rocky, please. Did you just call her his age-appropriate wife? Yes, she is. She's the right age to be his wife. Apollo Creed's no cradle robber? No, he is not. Yeah, she's not really a trophy wife, now is she? Oh, that poor woman.

It was the 1980s. How could I judge? Well, they first... They first... Ray Don Chong originally read for it. And Carl Weathers is like, no, no, that's not Apollo's character, all right? Exactly. Apollo's not on his second wife, okay?

That's not how Apollo plays the game. Apollo's in it for life. And, I mean, she's screaming her poor eyes out. Like, please throw in the towel, and Ruggie's just mouth-breathing, look at this towel. even uh what's this what's his face tony uh duke yeah duke tony burton is like throw in the towel you have the towel your job if i i am i am a professional at like being like i'm better at this thing you are do it i'm the corner man i would have thrown the towel in hours ago here's the thing though if you're tony burton's character in this movie if you're duke right you grab that towel from rocky

and you have to you have to like what do you do like he's too feet away from him and he's just yelling at him to do it if you think he's freezing up and he's not going to do it yourself again the wife is baking you a cake yeah she's just like thank you so much for saving my husband's life yeah all wounds will heal and apollo won't be brain dead in the ring i mean they don't really say what happens to him if it's like you know brain damage if his neck breaks there's a weird thing where Apollo Creed's like flopping around in that ring a little bit. That's the old

I don't know I'm all wrestling today but that's the old Devon Dudley like to prove that like something bad's happening with your neck you flop around a lot yeah the weird thing is like to create a villain in Ivan Drago there needs to be a

there needs to be a part of this fight where like he does throw in the towel but Drago kills him anyway or like the ref is like trying to stop him and he kills him anyway or no but he just kind of i mean he beats him that's what happens in rock boxing matches sometimes yeah i mean you know people have died in the ring before like it's a it's a you know it's tragic circumstances i mean it's a tragic circumstances but it comes with the territory yeah i was trying to say like that shit happens and it could be prevented

if rocky wasn't such a friggin pussy like it's i'm sorry but he totally pusses out in that moment they tried to do like at the end he's like uh well the drogo is like it doesn't matter if he's dead i won or some kind of thing like that that's the only instance of villainy in this movie is he's like you know i won this vibe if he dies so be it or something like that and it's like well yeah it's kind of a shitty thing to say because he's sitting there flopping around like a fish and obviously he's not long for this world and is going to die in the ring but like still like that's kind of just it like he's still just a put together guy who comes in does his business and leaves to be uh my favorite quote in the entire

movie is this this one ring side announcer it says what started out as a joke has ended in a disaster yeah i mean that's that's the exact you know like and that to me it symbolizes more than just what's going on in that ring that's like sort of the the message for this whole movie right like, oh, you know, it'd be funny if I made a fourth Rocky movie. And then it ends in this crippling disaster known as Rocky 4. Like, it's, it sums up everything perfectly. What started out as a joke has turned off to be as a set. So Apollo dies and we just go right into that funeral.

Like, he dies in the ring and he is in the ground. Like, boom, boom. If you lose a bet, Sylvester Stallone will do your eulogy. Like, it's just. The worst. It just loves me by the sweet guy and the angels will take his glove. I don't know. The amount of disrespect that this movie pays to that age-appropriate wife, by the way. She's, I don't think she's even shown at the funeral. She's not. It's all Sylvester Stallone. And then they're showing Adrian tearing up.

And Polly's there in a shitty suit. Of course he is. But there is just no age-appropriate wife to be found. Like, where is the widow Cree? And again, with Polly's shitty character, that is the first funeral for a black man he has ever been to, and the last funeral for a black man he's ever been to. What about when Duke does? He's not going. They make a seventh Rocky movie, and Duke finally passes, Pauly again living out of character he shouldn't have. Yeah, you do miss that scene where, like, where Rocky hits to straighten Pauley's tie, because he still doesn't know how to do a tie at 53 years old. He's got to straighten his tie, and then Polly drops a deck of cards on the floor and counts them all.

Polly's trying to bring his marbles to the funeral. His pet frog. Leapie? Hey, rock, and Leapie come to the funeral. Yeah, just put him in your front pocket, buddy. Don't let him hop into the grass. Oh, no. He got loose.

Paulie falls in the grave. I love it. Here, Leapy, here's a grasshopper from your box. Oh, no, get back here, knocks over the priest. Valucreed was a great man. He taught me a great man. He rib it. Polly, I told you, got to keep your frog away from this funeral.

I'm sorry, Rock. I'll go wait in the car. But Rocky's going near the pond, Rock. He's going near the pond. your shoes all wet the new Paulie come back I hate paying for no new shoes your birthday robot

can dry your shoes all so but I mean like we go from this funeral scene which is like two minutes and then all of a sudden Rocky has agreed to has agreed to be in this match it is it's like there's a missing reel somewhere like it goes right from that funeral

to another press conference off the IMDB there's a deleted scene where like Rocky goes to the boxing commission and like goes hat and head and asks for the match to be sanctioned, it's not but he does it any, he agrees to it anyway. All this is gone, I guess because we needed

more montages. Your movie's 91 minutes. You could have had a four minute scene where he goes to the boxing board and pleads his case. Exactly. It would make sense. But no, we need the five minute driving and morning montage. Yeah, that's the next real, the next

real big scene is when Rocky goes home he's like been doing all these press conferences about like how he's going to win the match and it's all for Apollo and he's not even getting paid for it question mark yeah well because that's one of those like you know he's just doing it for

honor and memory but again what about the widow creed yes she could probably use some money yeah you know what I'm saying she's got all those dogs she's got to feed that pool TV is not keeping itself on okay let's realistic.

Exactly. Like just take all the money will go to the widow creed who I am kind of sort of indebted to

because I kind of sort of killed her husband. Exactly. Yeah. Like that's where like that moment when he agrees to do

this fight with Draggo is the moment where Rocky starts devolving again. Yeah. Because it's back into thinking only about Rocky.

Not this poor woman that he's just left husbandless. You know what I mean? Like not his own wife who he may leave husbandless. Yeah.

Exactly. Because, and that's, like, there's a big driving around scene, you know, and he's thinking about what he's going to do. He's flashing back to the death scene, which we saw five minutes prior. Yeah. And he comes home, and it's a big standoff. I feel like there's a standoff scene like this in every Rocky movie where, you know, Adrian's just like, we're, don't fight, we're okay. Where Adrian has to be put in her place. Oh, yeah, because she's just like, be an adult and stop boxing.

Please. I mean, it's the same thing of, like, we have every. everything. You've done it all. There's no reason for you to do this. You know, whether or not you win this fight, Apollo's still dead. Like, it's not going to bring him back. Like, making 110% valid points all around. She says my favorite line in the movie, which is, you can't win. Which is so great. And I mean, I was wondering if like, because like, there's a lot of mortality, especially in this Rocky movie of like, man, if he gets in the ring with this guy, he might get killed. You think he's like in a limous. and he's like everything's weighing heavily on him and like he's like i don't know maybe you know i don't want i don't want to leave my kid an orphan blah blah blah adrian this that and the other thing and then he's just like rocky i kind of messed my underwear and he's like yeah now it'd be a good time to die like maybe i'd finally be rid of you you fucking i don't even know what no he just like walks across the screen naked with a cart and ice cream

It's like Sylvester Stallone sitting in a giant leather chair in front of a fireplace, pondering mortality, and Polly walks in nude with a thing of Cherry Garcia. Rock, we're all out of Rocky Road. Exactly. Yeah, you're right, it is Rocky Road, because that is the only ice cream allowed in the Balboa House. Rocky's Rocky Road. Rocky, I tried to feed my robot ice creams, and now he's dead. One detail that we left out, by the way, really quickly, is the fact that he's trying to have intercourse with that robot. A thousand percent.

Because the robot comes in, when the robot is introduced to the world, it's like, a happy birthday, Pauley, and whatever. And you're like, all right, boy, robot. And then later on the movie, it's like, you're welcome. It's a nice song. It's my favorite. You're the greatest. See you, sport. See you.

Paulie, who taught her to talk like that? Here's your beer, Paulie. And you're like, wait a second, when did that robot become a woman? And it's all, like, maternalistic to him because it's like, you can't have, I think it's about, it's about cigarettes, like, don't smoke cigarettes. It makes, like, the robot has caring for him. I mean, he's somewhere on, like, the back of that robot, there's a panel where it's like male, female.

Polly found that switch in 25 minutes. He found quite a lot in the back of that robot, I feel. But my favorite thing is that he keeps on, the robot keeps bringing Pauly Stros beer. There's Stros beer in the Rocky Balboa household. You'd think they'd be like a Coors Light or above family. Stros. And if anyone out there hasn't had Stros, go buy a 15 pack of Stros. That's how you know there's something fishy going on when your beer comes in a 15 pack.

Yeah. If you have $2, buy the 20 pack. But, and he drinks it out of a Sunday cup. He's just a big baby, God damn it. I imagine some like honest to goodness hillbilly and the Appalachian Flats listen to this podcast, drinking Stroes like, hey, wait a minute. As he backs out of his robot companion.

So, I mean, yeah, we've got this, and this is one of the longest, like he's just driving around. It's after Adrian breaks up with him, or not breaks up with him, do not go do this don't go away for three months in in the soviet union to train leaving your family just to in a ditch leaving your family as we find out at christmas time by the way yeah and just he's just driving around pondering his thoughts and it's like three and a half minutes of footage from the other movies mixed with sylvestre stalone looking down to shift gears of the sports car there are three shots of mr t in this montage. You know what?

After that, previously on Rocky, that is the last you see Mr. T. You should not see Mr. T ever again in this movie. And he's got like three more shots in that montage. It's that we see

we see pictures of Adrian on the staircase from two minutes ago. Like we remember. We really remember this movie is not hard to follow. This is the perfect film for like a late stage

Alzheimer's patient to watch. Because it's like, just in case you forgot what movie you're watching, it reminds you every 20 minutes what you've already seen through montage. Do you think there's just, there was like somebody who saw Rocky and was like, hey, he's sly, you're into movies now. Here is a book by Eisenstein. He's like, I don't know. I read this book by Einstein. And he said that montage is a good. You're right.

I mean, yeah, you know what Eisenstein said, you know, like, that's what makes the movies, right? Like, montage editing. Like, I'm surprised it's not a written, directed, and edited, you know, by Sylvester Stallone. I'm using the Einsteinian theory. So he goes to Russia, because that's just where this movie leaps to immediately. And of course, for no good goddamn reason, he takes Paulie. Why would you take him? He's of no use to you.

And he's just like, oh, that plane ride was really long. and like, yeah, Pauley, it was. Here's a fucking baseball. Go throw it around out back. He's got one of those like, ah, so this is Russia, huh? The sun ever come up here? Some shit?

You're like, just shut up. You've been complaining probably that whole plane. Oh, yeah, absolutely. You're complaining the second the plane lands, the second the door opens. It's awful. And so they go to this like gulag cabin in the woods thing in the middle of Siberia.

And he's like, oh, Rock, would you pick this for? he's like, oh, it's desolate, I can be alone with my thoughts and train like a barbarian. I would love, instead of, and I mean, like, honestly,

we could quite honestly skip to the end of the movie right now because the rest, this is all montage is coming up. Yeah. But I would love to know what Rocky's thinking. Like,

let's get some first person narration. Like, I'd kill for some first person narration in this movie. Absolutely. Because you don't know the character of Rocky in this movie. Like,

you're really at a distance because he's just, you're just seeing him devolve into the, like, selfish asshole Rocky again. Like, why? And, like, yeah, like, it's hard not to root for Rocky. And I'm not saying that I root for Ivan Drago in this movie. But, I mean, like, why am I rooting for Rocky in this movie? Like, give me a reason other than he didn't throw in the towel.

Because that's the only reason he's there is because he couldn't throw in the towel. He throws in the towel the fights over with there's no reason to get revenge. Like, and that's the end of it. Well, I mean, this partially has to do with the fact that this was shot in British Columbia. But also, you realize that you don't really see, like, besides the ring, they're not really interested in Russia at all. Like, it's just snow in the cabin, and then Drago's, like, hyper techno training palace. Yeah, he's training at, like, the USSR Olympic facility or something like that. Well, he's training like he's going to go to the moon, you know what I mean?

It is 100% astronaut training. He's got, like, all sorts of dial. and there's all sorts of meters and he's punching like baseboards that are showing like his velocity and measuring all sorts of physics well that's here's where you can find the drama of this movie so easily is that he's in this cabin the mill woods he doesn't know and we get this through montage but if you want to build some kind of dramatic like tension like uh duke knows all these old training habits that you have to you now have to relearn through these basic things but instead that

It's just all knowledge Rocky had, apparently, in the back of his head. Because you're right. I mean, one of the most interesting things about those first two or three Rocky movies was like Pauly, British Meredith. I think, was he dead at this point? You're talking about Mickey. Mickey. Mickey, I'm sorry, Molly. Mickey was Mickey and all of his like, now we're going to chase a chicken around.

That'll make you fast. Now we're going to do this. You're going to punch some meat because you're an Italian, blah, blah, blah. And it was entertaining and interesting of like, oh, wow, this is an interesting way to train. And you're right. It's all just knowledge he had. have that tension between the brain and the body like rocky is the body and it's so cool just to watch him as a physical athlete and that's one part of what's so interesting about movies period and then you have the brain being like well here is how you become more like motion and all of this stuff and what i don't get is here it's just all like he must have learned everything from mickey and then mickey died yeah he just Like maybe there's, there'd be a great scene, a Superman 2-esque scene where, like, there's a hologram of Mickey, like, so you found yourself in the Russian wilderness.

Okay, you'll need some rocks. You'll need a couple of horses. Pauli's going to have to sit on it, and you're going to drag him around like a rickshaw. It's like that bullshit thing they do in the third scream movie to bring Jamie Kennedy back where his sister comes in, played by Heather Matarazzo. And she's like, my brother left this in the event of his own murder. It's like, what are you talking about? And they pop it in and it's Jamie Kennedy. Like, so, you've found yourself in the middle of a trilogy.

Shut your mouth. Are you shitting me? The best part of Scream, too, is him getting fucking butchered. Oh, yeah. But you know what? If it's Lori Metcalf doing the killing, and I think they do acknowledge that it is, it's a physical impossibility for Lori Metcalf to kill Jamie Kennedy like that. Well, because she's a choke slam in it.

Well, let's not get into this. scream two conversation we'll obviously talk about during our scream two episode but you know yeah like some kind of like he finds like an audio cassette in an old bag and he's like so here you are face it off you versus the soviet union i always knew it was gonna happen they gotta look through that bag but no you're but you're right chris because one of the most interesting thing about all boxing movies it's really evident in the fighter. It's in the first Rocky movie, in the second Rocky movie. And the third one is like he has a plan for battle. It's not just

I'm going to go in and punch the guy until I win because that's not how boxers operate. It's like this guy's weakness is his body, so I'm going to work the body a lot. Or like I'm a left-hander, but I'll keep hitting it with my right hand, and then forget I'm a left-hand and then I'll hit him with my left hand. Like those are interesting things. Yeah. And I mean, and that again, it just goes along with this whole idea of like, you know, what you see in this movie of like the cockiness of America

the cockiness of this franchise, right? Of like, well, everybody's seen a Rocky movie already. Everybody knows how it works, right? Let's just have them go fight a communist and, you know, battle the Soviet Union. That's great. We don't have to have any kind of thought or process or anything like that. Feet up.

And I mean, really, like, it's, there's two training montages, intercut with, not intercut, but, uh, separated by, Adrian just shows up and it's like, yeah, I guess I have no self-esteem. can't hold myself to any ultimatums here i am again go beat him rock and by the way i left our kid to be babysat by a robot because there's no one left in that house but the kid his two friends and the robot who's dressed up like santa claus because his parents aren't home for christmas because his father's boxing in the soviet union hey rock where's paulie oh he's in the bathroom eating hot dogs where do you think he is rocky i went to the bathroom in my shirt

What? Oh, God. Could you fix him, please? I'm trying to train here. Duke, you brought the diapers, right? Yeah, you're right. There's a, there's a whole training montage to just a instrumental, you know, 80s rock song. Adrian shows up, you know, Rocky wipes his feet on her dormant face. And then there's, there's the rest of the training montage to a to a rock and roll number with some lyrics to it. And then the fight happens. And then the movie's pretty much over with. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're dealing with. There's one more montage.

Literally, there's one more montage to come. We'll talk about it. But you're right. No, it's just like, then, oh my God, like, we're already here? Holy shit. So they get to the big match. They get to the big match and a much more stoic beginning. Like, Stallone comes out very quietly because it's like the Soviet Union.

They don't believe in music. And, like, the hilarious, like, Ivan Drago comes out. It's like a Tom Clancy movie. And it's like, G. Dido, Vida. Yeah, everybody's chanting. Indiana Jones is hiding in the scaffold. There's just like this great mural being unfolded of Drago.

Oh, yeah, 100%. The one thing also about villainy is, and this would be a great thing to know in the movie and not shown in montage, Ivan Drago is on steroids. Maybe that's something to talk about in this film. You're right, yeah. The end of that training montage, you see him get injected with just a little something. He gets that little hot beef injection there at the end. And this is another thing about this movie just flip-flopping exactly what it wants.

Because Rocky, in that montage, Rocky is all humble and he's doing the old school, like, lifting an apple cart or whatever the hell he's doing in there. And, like, Draco is, like, boxing a robot. He's in this huge, what looks like the biggest, like, banquet hall in America. He's just running around it. he is training to be the first man on mars that is what's happening and then yeah you just see the shots of and that and again it's supposed to be just an instant like oh well oh this athlete does steroids uh villainy again it's this quick shot of villainy instead of just being like he maybe did something really bad or maybe he's not a bad guy at all and he's just a fucking boxer

like maybe there's some soviet trainers you know he pulls out the needle and he's like here you could have a scene where maybe you know you have like a sort of wishy-washy villain and Drago's like no I don't want that and he's like you're taking it and forces him to do the stereo you could anything you could have a scene like actually period you could have

a scene of anything happening that isn't set to music like I haven't uh Dolf Lundgren's a really competent actor he can go to I mean Stallone's a very good actor in Doses when he wants to be when he wants to be he could be a very good actor but Lundgren's a good actor too

you could give him things to do 100% you could And he's got a supporting cast all around him Like there's there could be great B plot stuff Of I mean like granted like you don't want to Over over you know Over bog your film

But like just give him anything to do Like conflicts ideas Maybe there's a scene with him and his wife in bed And he like he's rough during sex Or something weird like anything could happen Aside from Brigitte Nielsen Who has you know the most dialogue out of any of the Soviet The rest of the people around him

May as well be cardboard cutouts. Yeah. Because all they say is Drago. And that's it. That's it. Weak Americans. That's all they say. They might as well all be wearing devil suits.

That's because that's all they're supposed to be is just like these evil fucks. And they don't do any like, it drives you nuts because Bridget Nielsen, we didn't talk about this. But in that first press conference when Rocky is like, I'm going to, I'm going to fight Drago. She's like the most like calm, normal person. And she's just like, we don't want to fight here because people hate us. Oh, that's right. She's a great little speech in that scene. It's a whole big thing about like, ever since your boxer died in the ring, my husband's been getting death strats.

People are harassing us on the street. You've been terrible to us. We don't want to have this grudge match here. We'll fight you, but you have to come to us because your people have been horrible to us. And she's right. I mean, look again. And what's the American's with? Bullshit.

Yeah, totally. Shut up, Arvina. Splash. But, I mean, like, so Gorbachev, by the way, Premier Gorbachev or Premier Gorbachev stand-in? Borbachev. Oh, it's a Borbachev situation. He's at the match. It's like the biggest thing in Russia.

And there are American sportcasters there from the USA Network. Now, this is something I want to bring into question because this is 1985. Was the USA Network at a point where the. They could send people to the Soviet Union to broadcast a, it doesn't matter, grudge match, like a non-sanction boxing match. I think it's probably just a situation where it's a stand-in for anything. And it's like, uh, you know, the network from the USA, the USA network. It's that, it's that and it's not the actual USA network. I think that's more of what it is.

So it's, it's not so much characters welcome as this is just an American television. America's welcome. I see. Well, you know what? Because you know where characters aren't welcome fucking rocky for. If you're not Rocky, you don't matter as a character.

Absolutely not. In 1985, the USA Network's motto was not characters welcome. It was content welcome. Whatever you got, we'll put it on. I don't care. Silk's stalking shore. That's great.

I saw not even kidding you, the first maniac cop movie aired on the USA Network. Remember that USA up all night or after dark, whatever that was? supposed to be Gilbert Godfried. Maniac cop.

Now we have psych. Completely different network. Wasn't USA Network where they did the weird science TV show? Yes, they did. Duck Man and all that stuff? I believe so. Duckman was on USA Network at some point, I think, before it went to Comedy Central. I don't know.

It's all good. It's very confusing that. Pre-1999, USA, T&T, and TBS were all interchangeable. It was just like whoever had the saved by the bell ball was running with it. It just showed it all the time. There was three different shows about cops on bicycles. That's what you were dealing with. Look at the expression on the face of Ivan Drago

seems impervious to this madness of a crowd. It's not a volcano just waiting to Iraq. So, all right, like, now we're at our meat and potatoes of a Rocky movie, right? We're like, okay, we kind of don't know what Rocky's plan is. We saw him train, so he's going to fight him. Okay, that's great. And, like, this is the big thing we're waiting for. we get two rounds the first round dragos like trounces him the second round rocky shows a spark and like cuts up dragos eye and you're like all right now we have a match no we don't we have a montage just one more montage they montage the final fight and you know and the other you know the other fights i know you're not seeing a blow by blow boxing match but it's not this segment i mean they go for like 13 rounds you see like a punch from each round

it is ridiculous there's more time focused on them sitting in the corners yes getting you know like you know lame advice and getting you know clotted up and whatever then you actually see them boxing well one of the most annoying things about this scene

is the the fact that Dolph Lunter is beaten the ever-loven hell out of sly and eventually he gets a little blood he gets tapped London gets tapped once he's like he's made of iron

oh god yeah well there's that weird thing where they say to Rocky he's not a machine he's a man yeah and then you know it flips over and they're saying

in russia like drago's like he's he's not the man he's made of iron that's such bullshit draggo wouldn't take that way the little thing I know about drago's character which isn't much is that he would not think that way he's a confident boxer he's hepped up on steroids

like we know you know what I mean look he's not going to be amazed because Stallone threw one punch at it wow that punch made me have admiration for my opponent no not so much Ivan you cut it you heard it you see he's not a machine we come out of the montage

and all of a sudden the crowd the Soviet Union crowd is chanting Rocky for some reason you got to be shitting me absolutely like this is the what are we talking about moment of the week here? Like, you're telling me that just because this

small American boxer starts beating the shit out of your Cold War superstar that an entire arena of Soviet peasants is going to turn around and start chanting Rocky, wow, by the way, Borbachev is sitting up there, the wine

stainless stand in, by the way. You're telling me that this whole place is just going to turn and start chanting for him? Are you kidding me? I mean, like, let's just throw out the fact that they probably, they probably had so much pride for Drago. And if, if Rocky was winning, they'd be heartbroken. But chances are they'd be too afraid to chant Rocky, even if they did want to, because of fear losing their potato. You know what I mean?

Like, exactly. Like, okay, were you cheering for Rocky during the bout? Okay, go out this door where you're just shot in the parking lot. You know what I'm saying? Oh, you kept on Drago the whole time. Okay, you can go home and live another way. He is a russet. Yeah.

But, I mean, like, this is the last throws of the Cold War. It's, like, 85. So, like, Borbachev is, you know, a little more lenient. But even still, like, they would never cheer. Like, the Soviet Union would never cheer for an American. It doesn't make any sense. The president of the United States didn't even demand for the wall to be torn down until two years later anyway.

Yeah. Okay? So, like, in, in no, under no circumstances would this ever happen? No. And so he beats him, you know, Drago goes down. And it's not even really, yeah, it's not even like a real, like, an uppercut situation or like no way the choreography is so boring it's just like he just beats him yeah no it's a it's i think the worst ending to a rocky fight hands down the last punches i really don't it's just a series of

punches and then lunger just kind of falls over into the corner and the ref's like yep that's it and rocky like kind of goes after him and the refs like pushes him or whatever and then that's the end of the match and you're like oh wait a second i'm sorry the match is over with you know why didn't you end it in the montage you know what i mean as well have the last note of the song be the last punch or something. Yeah, I mean, what makes no sense to me is that the movie had to have some money behind it because all the movies did very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is the most successful of all of them. And this one did the best. What I don't understand is how much did that robot cost? Because my only other avenue of thought is that he pocketed a shit ton of this money.

I like the idea of Stallone being like, oh shit, we shouldn't have bought that robot. We got no money for nothing. I got this great rocky traded scene I guess he's got to use rocks Well no but here's the thing then If your robot costs so much money That it bankrupted the entire budget or whatever right

Like wouldn't you then get use out of that robot Like you're using every note of all those songs Use that robot till its batteries run out You know what I'm saying? Like then you have the training with the robot scene Maybe the robots in your corner you know what I mean Dude that robot they trust that robot with their children's life Can we talk about that for five fucking seconds?

Really? You're just like, I'm just going to go all the way to Russia. And this robot, who I think is okay, it's just going to watch my kid. I mean, they have a scene earlier in the movie where some woman comes out and she's just like, Mr. Balboa, Mr. Creed's on the phone for you. And he's like, oh, okay, the phone's ringing. And you're like, all right, so maybe there's like a housekeeper going on. But they keep cutting back to the Balboa estate. and the little Balboa and two of his friends are watching the match

and that robot is in the background just dressed as Santa Claus and this woman is nowhere to be found. The house is completely dark. They're just sitting in front of the TV. Like, I think that robot is babysitting. Do you think it's possible that, I mean, that robot obviously is covered mostly in Paul's seed? Do you think he made it an honest robot?

And that's Ant Robot? It's Uncle Paulianette robot That's 100% would happen There is another deleted scene Like when Rocky goes to the boxing board of commissioners or whatever There's a scene where Polly goes before a judge with the robot And they're married And Rocky's got to fix his bow tie

No no Bill Duke gets ordained as a minister Or not Bill Duke Duke gets ordained as a minister. It's been a long time coming, Polly. You finally found your robot. Well, I've spent most of my life hoping that it was going to be a woman for you, but I guess a robot will do it.

Better than a cow, I guess. At least it's sort of shaped like a human being. I mean, she's not that woman from the Institute, but she's all right. So Rocky wins the match. It's like, Coray, Rocky won. And this movie can't fucking grandstand enough. because like he wins and like usually Rocky just has a nice speech at the end and it is what it is but he gives his speech it's all about like if I can change you can change we can change

yeah it's a whole thing about like when I came here I didn't know what to expect you all hated me and I didn't know how to feel about that but then through the course of this fight I heard you chanting my name and it made me realize if I could change you can change we can all change First of all, when in this movie did Rocky change? Aside from starting the movie being a decent human being, you know, an aging boxer at the end of his career, back to being a selfish douchebag. The change happened in the beginning of the,

the beginning and end of this movie was 20 minutes in. Yeah, no, 100%. Like the rest of the stuff in the Soviet, like the Soviet Union and they're chanting of Rocky's name in the arena, that didn't do anything to Rocky. That didn't change Rocky. You don't even see that. the movie he just tells you it at the end you don't see him being like oh wow why are they

chanting my name you know what i mean like there's not that moment when he's like that's magical like they're in the corner or something like that right and and he's like what are they chanting what are they chanting and duke's like the chanting rocky or what like who's about time they got on the american bandwagon of the real deal and also by the way if rocky thinks that like they've changed you're telling me that these people aren't leaving this arena going back out into the cold night of the Soviet Union and still instantly hating America again. Of course.

No, but the best part about this movie is So Rocky makes his speech and everyone roars with applause and starts giving a standing ovation and then we go up to the upper crust. Oh, yeah. And Borbachev is moved and gives Rocky a standing O.

Moved to standing O. Like at first when it happens And, like, you know, Drago loses. Borbachev's looking over at the Russian boxing commissioner. Like, in the morning, you will be drawn in quarter. Like, that's the kind of look he's giving him. And you're like, oh, man, this guy's screwed. But it's that heartwarming Italian-stallion speech that just melts his heart.

You want to talk about being taken out to the back and shot in the back of the head? That's what happens to Borbachev after this movie. Like, no way will a Russian premiere, a Soviet premiere, stand up and, applaud an American athlete. Are you shitting me? No, totally. Like, they always wanted to get Gorbachev out anyway because he was too lenient towards the Americans. The second he stands up and cheers for Jesse Owens, they're going to put a noose around his neck.

During this fight, I've seen a lot of changing the way you felt about me and the way I felt about you. In here, there were two guys. killing each other but i guess that's better than 20 me the one of trying to say is that if i can change and you can change everybody to change i mean and and that's the end of the movie we freeze frame on rocky and hearts on fire starts playing again we get a lot of good production stills over the credits it looks like a crappy yearbook like photos spread all these like grainy black and white photos And thank God that robot gets a picture

Of course the robot gets a picture Everybody gets a picture in this movie Now And Chris I think You said you haven't seen all the Rocky movies I haven't seen the last one I haven't either I mean so let's just the original like set of five Rocky movies

Is this worse than I mean because one and two You can't talk about because they're legitimately good movies Yeah three's a little wishy-washy Excuse me this is four and five's garbage too though but where does this stand between three four five I really wish I had watched all five movies I mean I wouldn't subject myself to that

because I don't get paid for this show but I would say I mean I think it goes literally the Rocky I think it's a perfect arc downward like it just it goes down the steps it goes worse worse worse worse worse and worse four has a lot more five has more story and I think as memory serves it's very boring

but it has more story and it tries to actually do something I think there's a better story in Rocky 5 but yeah it is boring as sin the one thing I will say even though I haven't seen it there are people that will tell you and I read a lot of reviews

that that Rocky Balboa is a good movie it's just a much more I mean I saw about half of it I had to turn it off that's a glowing write-up well I mean it's just because it's a huge downer yeah because Adrian's dead

um but he's still kicking paul he's still a robot have a nice gaggle of kids at this point paul is still hanging out of the sausage shop well and in rocky five they lose all their money and they lose that robot and that's got to be a sad scene that's right he's bankrupt in that fifth movie i mean i saw the third one like a long time ago enough to i remember the uh montage of all the ads that he's in yeah yeah yeah before he fights tea he's dressed up in all sorts of redonculous. Like he's dressed up like Tarzan at one point, I think. That's actually two. Oh, is that two when that happens? I think it is.

It's all blurring together. Well, it's whatever that, like, there at least there was an idea of, um, like he hits, he hits opulence and then all the sudden it's, he's, his profession, like what he does as an athlete is challenged by Mr. T. Right. That

is actually something interesting. Is that you're, you've made it, you've done all this great stuff as far as like, you taking care of your family and everything like that, but your, your quote-unquote art has suffered. This, on the other hand, is, oh, go beat up the Russian. Yeah, and that's the thing. And I think that brings me to, for anyone who hasn't yet checked out Rocky for, is anyone here recommending Rocky for? I guess I recommend it, yeah.

I think you could do, you could do worse than 90 minutes. It's not, I mean, it's not really a movie. It's the most annoying case of 19. 80s ra ra america you're going to see and it's almost culturally just interesting for that reason alone yeah and there's a robot in it so i always almost recommend movies you can always yeah you can give robot points what about you chris i mean it's just a red white and blue cum stain i can't like so there you go that's your pick that's rocky four yeah i mean it's really it's something else man like it's an adventure i guess is what you would call it well he has an adventure he goes to the

Soviet Union. He trains in the snow. Fighting communists. I mean, can any of us say the same? You know, it took me a minute to think about it, but actually, you're right. Yeah, taking your grenade from the Mujah Hadin is a totally different thing.

And I mean, you know, South London shooting up all throughout this movie. Oh, I forgot. Yeah, he's doing the stera. It's the whole time. And like, I mean, and but I do still agree. He is the hero of the movie. Dolf Lundgren?

Dolf Lundgren, because he's showing these assholes who are like, with their American shit all everywhere. And he's just like, dude, I'm just trying to fucking fight people. Like, really? I'm just trying to be a pugilist. Like, you're trying to do this. Can you please just okay, really, with the top hat

to James Brown this loud. This is honestly not going to help our them's libtards rumors because we're rooting for the Soviet Union. Yeah, I I have no problem with that. I'm proud to be a libtard.

There you go. The voice of New York, Chris Cabin. So until next week, continue enjoying your summer vacation. I know we're enjoying ours.