We Hate Movies - S5: WHM On-Screen: The Conclusion of Mad Men

Episode Date: May 22, 2015

On the return of WHM On-Screen, the guys fulfill their promise from last year and release a conversation about the fantastic conclusion of Mad Men! Hear as they gush over the final scene! Listen as they ponder what happened to poor, Bob Benson! And laugh as they speculate about Don's plan to release an army of dead-inside Don Draper drones all across the country! WHM On-Screen is a show where we talk about different TV shows, current films in release, or any other film-related topic we can think of. For more episodes, visit whmpodcast.com! Unlock Exclusive Content!: http://www.patreon.com/wehatemovies

So I guess the one thing, this is what I'm so happy to start with, the one thing that I'm so happy about, is I can stop hearing all those Manson murders, conspiracy theories about this show. Oh, man, everyone got goose, huh? Because, like, you know what, man? That just wasn't going to happen. I was, you know, I just thought, like, so many, like, historical events of the 60s were skirted around and, like, kind of, I mean, always elegantly folded in. I just thought, like, one of the biggest one that, I mean, you know, the Manson thing is the death of the 60s that it was going to hit them pretty hard.

Do you think it was going to, like, take them all out one at a time? He just goes through the whole agency. Or yeah, everyone, Megan, Glenn Bishop from down the street. You know, everyone's getting theirs. That's what I thought the last, the montage was everyone at the show getting killed by the Manson family. They show Ginsburg and a straight jacket getting his throat slit. It's like too many cooks, but with Charlie Manson. Welcome to W.H.M. on the screen.

I'm Andrew Juven alongside Eric Siska and Stephen Sadek. We're talking about, as promised, the back half of the final season of Mad Men's So I'm only going to say this once, spoiler alert, the end of Mad Men, continue. I mean, if you're going to click on something that says, Mad Men, Think Piece, about the end of the show, chances are that's going to get spoiled. Yeah, we are discussing all things, Mads of Men, which is what I like to call the show. So the thing that we can, you know, we'll make this quick. But the thing we can start with is, you know, the ambiguity of this ending, which I don't think is as, as,

ambiguous as some people think it is but like I am in the camp of Don goes back and thinks of the slogan I'd like to buy a world of Coke and blah blah blah blah I actually for whatever reason when I first saw it literally I thought it was Peggy

because I thought like Peggy talks about Coke she's shown wearing red she stays at the agency etc etc I actually thought like it was a cool reward for her until I texted Andrew and he's like no it's Don and I was like oh Andrew you fucking idiot and like i but then for whatever reason like my brain clicked and i remembered that one girl

who is at the center who has the pig tails right she's dressed just like a girl from the ad exactly so that's i think that's the clue that's the only that's the concrete clue i mean the only other thing i have to add to that is the way it's cut together is like we're oming out at the retreat and he's meditating he gets that smirk the song kick in and then we cut to the commercial also you know like i don't know if anyone's mentioned this before but like it's funny him on the road doing his thing he he continually gets he starts dressing down more and more yeah he's like he's like wearing more casual outfits and then he's wearing denim on denim dude john ham wearing denim on denim which is what i do every day dude i got my

jeans on i got my denim jacket i was like looking pretty fancy mr draper you think you're getting mistaken for John Ham on the street? No, because it guaranteed John Ham's cool denim jacket doesn't have a patch on it that says, can't Crystal Lake counselor, because I'm that cool. Oh man, Canadian tuxes

dude. Rock and roll. See, then he gets a flannel shirt. Yep. And then when he's finally like, you know, he's been left at this meditation resort, what's it called? Eslion. The Esleon.

I didn't even get a name. I've just been calling it The Retreat. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like a real place. Oh, is it? Yeah. Oh, okay. And in that meditation scene, he's back to wearing like khakis and a white shirt. It's sort of more.

Oh, yeah. That final meditation, yeah. That place kept reminding me of, you ever see David Cronenberg's The Breed? The Brood. The brood, I apologize. Oh, yeah, it's the retreat from the brood. Exactly. There's a cabin somewhere where a woman is birthing.

hate gnomes that are going around killing people in Toronto hotel buildings. Is that what Duck Phillips was? Dude, I cannot tell you how much I clapped in my home when Duck Phillips was in that episode. Oh, God, he's great. Yeah. He's my favorite character. He's just like such a fucking disaster. He says if I could, if I could get this sale, I could make it to winter. That's living life, man. The only person I was bummed about not seeing was Freddie Rumson. Good old peepants, Freddie Rumson. Was he, like, filming a movie or something?

Like, because he was in the first half of the second season. Like, very briefly. Yeah, I don't know. He was pretty pivotal in that, right? He was, like, the guy that was, like, trying to keep him on the straight and narrow. Like, hey, or was that the season before? No, that's the first half season, right? Where he's like, oh, what are you going to do?

Put your band shoe on and get marching. Right. The thing is, these seasons come out so sporadically. I couldn't tell you a win it was. It might have been season two. That's, you know, I am just so. sick and tired of the breaking up seasons. Just give it a rest. It worked

out okay. It worked out a little better than I thought it would because they had that nice ending with Robert Morse. And then this season was so like, but this season did feel like the end. Like every single episode, it was like, every single character gets their little bow, you know what I mean? Which I really dug and I, but I was

so, I was actually really happy with the last montage because a lot of the characters I kind of had written off. I was like, well, that's the last time we see Joan. Right. That's the last time we see Roger. Like, yeah. I thought the last time you see Joan was when she takes that deal, you know what I mean, which is actually kind of fair. But then you get a little more scumbagged Bruce Greenwood, which I could, I'm okay with. I'm happy any time Bruce Greenwood's just tap dancing through a scene.

It's amazing. He was. He was kind of like a big character in this end. He was just like a new character at the end of the show. Which I was kind of bummed because in my mind loving Bruce Greenwood like I do. And believe me, and into darkness, I was shedding a tear. Like, he's great. And I was like, why now? Why?

Yeah, yeah. When there's seven episodes left. Also speaking of why now, why are we vacuuming in the in the nighttime upstairs neighbors? My goodness. Well, someone's doing cocaine like Bruce Greenwood does. That was an amazing thing, too. That's how you know we're at the tail end of the 60s now. We're just doing code.

Well, no, we're full out in the 70s. So we're giving it a shot. Yeah, it's Coke Town. It's great. I just love his, like, shitty fucking stepdad character of like, well, I'm retired. Yeah. You know, it's just like, oh, man, what a fucking dick. Banking was. I loved every second of it.

Oh, yeah. Did you guys hear, did you guys hear that, like, Matthew Weiner did a, he did like an interview about the end scene and stuff. I read this today. Oh, was this the thing at the New York Public Library that they did? I think it might have been, yeah. He did say that that Don comes back.

Yeah. Oh, he confirmed it? Yeah. Oh, cool. At least that's, you know, I don't know if he says you could interpret it how you will. I mean, I'm sure all shows think that, but yeah, he said that that was clearly the intention. At least nobody's like, oh, well, he died. You know, when he slubs against that tree, that's what he dies.

Oh, and the rest of it's just a hallucination. Wait, hold on a second. That was Breaking Bad. People were doing that. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, he didn't start the car because he died. And then the rest of it's all a fantasy.

Dude, some fucking TV's a fantasy, you jackass. I thought maybe there was a real theory about Mad Men. No, no, no. I'm sure some assholes got that problem. Somebody had that for the Simpsons, though. Did you see that thing? Like, a couple months ago? they were like when Homer has I think it was they were saying when Homer it's the

the bypass operation episode like 48 years ago yeah they were like oh yeah he actually died and then and here's the thing when you're trying to make an argument like that and you like spill your nonsense diarrhea theory all over the internet and then you have to like put a button on it with think about it that's how you know that person's full of shit if someone's at a party and they're like, oh yeah, dude, just think about it. Like Heisenberg goes up to that cabin, it's cold, he freezes the death, and the rest of it is just a big revenge fantasy. Think about it.

Like, no, you're full of shit, and I'm not going to talk to you anymore. Isn't that the end sentence of Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time? Just think about it. I think it is. That's why we hate that guy. All right, so who, is there anybody's ending your name? not happy with at a curiosity any characters ending here there's there's a this is completely irrational and he does not belong and he already had been exited the show and it was fine but i kind of just want to know

what bob benson's up to out in detroit man dude you know what he's doing he's betting on the wrong horse with that crazy ones that's what it was i guarantee you yep he would have been a lot more heavily featured but because of i'm doing a sitcom with sarah michel and robin williams Wasn't there that other Bob Benson Throwaway Lone Star Oh no no No no

Was it Bob Benson on Lone Star? He may have been I think he was Lone Star But that may have been Before he was on Mad Men though But the throwaway line that they have About like him having two wives Or something like that

Did anybody else catch that? No I totally missed that Oh no no I'm sorry That Joan had been married two times Yes Well I was unsure about that Or no no wait What are you talking about

That somebody says something In that last season about Joan Maybe in the last episode that Joan had been married twice. And that's surprising because there's one which is Greg, which is her first, her husband, which is my favorite line in that I fucking show. She's like, no, because he's a terrible person.

That was another, me standing up and clap it in my living room. Yes. I don't remember. Maybe I'm mishearing it, but I was kind of like, did you marry Bob Benson? Did that happen? No, I think that definitely did not happen. If anything, it would be...

She flat out turned, turned that whole thing down in that cab scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was just such a weird, like, throwaway line where it's like, oh, yeah, she's been married twice. And I'm like, what? I don't remember that. I mean, the only Joan two names thing was she winds up naming the agency that she starts. Her, it's her maiden name and then the married name. Oh, that's cool.

Is that so it's, it's just her. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, it's just her, which is cool. I thought that was cool. I liked that whole bit. How about Peggy and Stan Rizzo? Oh, that's a stand-up and clap moment.

Right? How beautiful was that? That phone conversation scene that they have is one of the not only best written things that shows done, but it's one of the best acted scenes between the two of them. And even though I pegged it, like, I was like, he's running up the stairs. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it didn't matter. It's a rom-com moment, but it's so good.

It's so organically, like, unfolded. Yeah, it felt earned over years. Oh, yeah. You know, they had sexual attention. when they were first hanging out and, like, smoking, we didn't get naked to write or whatever. Yeah, but what was great about it was the show never elevated it to, like, Sam and Diane's status.

Which was what's great about it, you know? It's just, I honestly did not think it was going to happen or so. I didn't really see it coming because I just didn't think madmen would do that. No, exactly. It was just, well, there was so many good, like, happy endings, but in a good way of, like, you've stuck with these characters so long. Not everybody dies in a ditch. everything kind of works out okay-ish. Do you want to hear my

Peggy impersonation by the way? Yes, sure. Ah, crap. Literally, that's her whole character for the past four seasons. It's just like so I was like, oh, could you watch my kid? Ah, crap. Dude, Elizabeth Moss, that shot of her walking down the hallway with the sunglasses on her

and the stoke out the corner of her mouth. The octopus painting. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We can have the squares. I love it. It's so awesome. Oh, my God. How about Don Draper hugging that fucking crying dude about being invisible in his whole life What I love about that is like here we are

Like one of the most heralded Television shows of the last ever Since the medium has been invented right Like here we are like the clock is ticket Oh yeah And what this show decides to do Is give some glorified extra Five minutes to pontificate about his problems

I guarantee you that guy's week was one read for madmen really hope i get it two definitely gonna try and book that snickers commercial just in case like it's just one is just like snickers are good and the other one's like have you ever felt empty and like and he fucking knocks it out of the park oh my god it's so amazing that guy needs his own tv show absolutely yeah that was another thing uh matthew winner said that there was like one of the most important characters of the show was that guy oh yeah for sure it's so like yeah he's he's like a seminal character. You know,

in the, it's like, what, four minutes and 30 seconds left? Like, in comes this dude who's, you know, he says everything that Don's always wanted to say. Like, it's a little bit of a DeiSX bald guy, but, you know, it totally works. That guy kills that

monologue. Oh, for sure. You know, it's amazing. And it's not like he gets the retreat and has that, like, you know, that moment of, of shedding his emotional burdens that quickly. He has to deal with Brett Kellman. Dude, Brett Gellman is a guy we all love.

He was, he's an old New York City improv guy. I always remember I saw Brett Gellman do an improv set. They were doing a mono scene on one of his old New York teams. And he was playing a serial killer. Oh, yeah. And it was just, it was the perfect melding of horror and comedy. Like, because he was making my skin crawl in the funniest way possible. That's his career.

And that was when I fell in love with Brett Gilman. like, you know, circa 2007 or something. But the cool thing was, I mean, it was the end of Don, the thing that Don was trying to do, I think, with this cross-country trip, was to create an army of Don Draper's. Because he gets that one guy go. And he sets him off into the ether.

It's like, do it, rain chaos down amongst the 70s. And then that woman, his niece or whatever, his pseudo-niece, she's like, oh, my God, I love my child, and he's like, it gets easier every day. And I'm like, dude, stop making. yourself over and over again. Just keep pressing it down and down and soon you'll be a successful ad man. Dude, I thought in that hotel room, Roy from the office was either going to cut his throat or fuck him. I thought one of those two things. It was a real like fucking con man death. I thought

that's what he was going to get. But not like in a gentle like I'm going to fuck this guy kind of way like in a deliverance like squeal like a pig. The time is now kind of a way. Oh, God. Also in that scene, just Don Draper getting hit in the face with a phone book. I could kind of watch that over and over again. Can someone make a jiff of that, please? I'm sure it exists. The phone book beating, that's pretty fantastic.

But that dude, too, the kid, right, the little con man. And he gives him the car and he's like, go out into the world. Don't waste this opportunity. Your master's giving you. He's trying to clone himself over and over again. It's so amazing. Here's $10,000. Go fucking kill him.

one day I will call upon all of you all of his draper's all these like one day okay like this is you drapers assemble yeah this is after he's done the coke ad sure and now he's got he's really fired up he's like the new don draper I'm

king shit goes up to Jim Hobart's office Jim Hobart gives him a slight little lip yeah you know about his big vacation or whatever and he calls it all the other Don's up to the office and all these other fake people

like just toss Hobart out the window exactly I think that's really possible right and then Don's just like Don's let's get our story straight you're all your new identity right this guy just jumped out that window we all saw it one of the things that I really loved was I think it's in the second to last episode

is how because we're so used to Don like getting into a boardroom and it's like, here comes that billion dollar pitch. And when they're going to pitch to the McCann Erickson fellas, like, here's why we should do like Sterling Cooper West or whatever. That's a while, a couple of the first or second episode of

the half season. Is it? Well, it's earlier, yeah. Yeah. I mean, whenever it is, but they find out they're being swallowed up. Yeah, we're talking madmen. But what's great about it is that's the last time Don gives a pitch and it gets cut off. Oh, yeah, he's like, whatever. You know, like, he's like, you know what? Just sit down.

Don, sit down. You won. Like, that whole thing. It's so great because it's like you're expecting here it comes, another carousel of brilliance kind of a thing. We're crying over a chocolate bar. But instead, it's like, you know what? Shut up. We've seen that. I also liked

for you, Beverly Hill 902 and O heads out there. Jenny McCarthy's rapist shows up trying to rape Joan Halloway. Dude, there's some reports. Going for the rape hat trick, I guess. That guy's a creep in real life. Oh, really? Oh, that's really not. surprising. Allegedly. I mean, there's some reports that he was like being a real jerk on the

set, including the line, I'm sweating like a rapist. It's like a G-grade Rodney Dangerfield joke. Yeah, he apparently had like this big interview with some like, uh, lady that works at BuzzFeed and it's like constantly trying to get with her during the interview. I'm in character. Well, yeah, it's a method. It's method. Played rapist my whole career, baby. Another thing that I appreciated was we didn't go down the road of six feet under and parks and recreation where we're jumping way ahead in time. I was kind of expecting something from the 80s or something.

I was expecting Don to be working on fucking Atari, dude, and I wasn't having it. And the fact that they avoided that, because what's great about how they end it is like, yes, you can perceive it as happy. But also, it's like, Don could fall back into being miserable. Roger's probably going to get divorced from this woman.

Sure. you know Stan and Peggy could last a month and then fizzle out the Learjet crashes after that you know like all of those things can have just like his father before him yeah exactly I mean there's no definitive anything right and that's what those nonsense endings do yeah when we flash so far into the future that it's like see everybody made it or like this is what definitely happened yeah this allows you to be like you know what we're just we're stopping in media res and anything

think it happened and it doesn't matter but like the show is over with write your fan fiction i think that's great you know i i would have hated them to be definite and thank god a lot of people interpreted that you know like oh you know the opening credits of madman i wonder when don's going to jump out the window yeah dude i mean that again like so it wasn't literal as everyone knows that was just falling into the world of advertisements oh man and then he somebody throws tar all over him and then he goes mad and jumps out of window he truly becomes a madman i really was expecting pete campbell to start firing off that gun eventually but i mean like p rightfully changes for the better he becomes one of like the better than's true the better guys on that show

weirdly enough yeah that's the thing he's always been like a child you know he's always been so mature and out for his own self-interest and he does it actually kind of feels like he has matured over this period of time yeah but what's what's great though is like i mean he gets this million dollar job sure right and the whole thing is like you know they're saying like his constant scheming and weasily brown nosing like totally paid off oh yeah right so it's like

it's not entirely hands clean no he's a piece of shit yeah he was a piece of shit to get where he got and like there is this 11th hour change of tune yeah which is great I totally bought into it I was like that you know it's fine I'm glad he got his family back whatever yeah there was there was some people

that were critical of that like Allison Brie's character takes him back. But, I mean, you know, that's what's all those... It happened in the 70s, though, you know what I mean? Like, especially, like, she was a woman that, like, she had this kid. She clearly wasn't happy being divorced. And, like, right and wrong, like, if she was...

It was now, it would be different, I bet. You know what I mean? She's like, fuck it, I'm Allison Brie. I'm just going to go find a new man. But it was the 70s. She didn't at least think that was an option for herself. It's nice to see, you know, reconciliation of some... In some form. Like, which is not something that happens on that show ever

like once you're divorced on that show you're staying fucking divorced until your wife gets cancer yeah so yeah let's get into Betty before yeah yeah alright PD huh yeah I think that that's great I think the someone had to get it right everyone knew someone had to get it I kind of like that it wasn't Don because that seems too on the nose

I mean it yeah it is it would have been and it also is a good confirmation that Don has been a piece of shit the whole time because like literally here you are you're out in California and you're fucking living it, man, figuring yourself out. Figure it out, man, fucking getting hit with the phone book. And your 17-year-old daughter is like, hey, man, guess what? My mom has cancer.

Remember your wife? And nobody wants to send my two little brothers to live with you because you're a piece of garbage. You could do one of two things. You can go to a retreat and find yourself or whatever. Or go back home and fucking set shit straight. Like, I understand, like, she doesn't want you there. And you don't impose on that. Like, you just find a way to make yourself useful.

Maybe you're fucking taking the kids out to the movies every so often. Right. Maybe you're doing anything. That's the thing, though. And again, it's the whole, the great conceit of not flashing 30 years into the future and seeing Don take his last breath, right? It's that, like, if you believe in the theory that he goes back to New York with the tagline of I'd like to buy the world of Coke.

Yeah. Right. Then it's feasible that he's taking the car up to Ossining for a weekend. And he is doing that stuff. Like, you don't know. Sure. seeing the kids on the weekends. Which is what's awesome about it.

Like, I like to think that, you know, because I'm taking like the cynical approach to a lot of these characters. Like, Sally is like the girl who's going to drop out of school to take care of her mother. And, you know, maybe it doesn't go back. You know, something like that. Like, and that's just what that is. And she's taking care of those kids. I'm feeling terrible for Henry Francis.

Oh, Betty, you got cancer. Oh, shit. Betty, don't you want to do something about this? Because the thing about it is. It's weird that he doesn't keep the kids or anything. No, he wants the kids. Oh, but Betty wants them with a woman in the house. Yeah, they're going to go live with her brother.

You know what my sad divorcee husband raising them. But that's what's hard. You smell like Betty Bobby. That's what's heartbreaking about it. Is Bobby and Gene are going to go live with the sister and brother-in-law or the brother and sister-in-law, whatever sibling of hers. Sally is a grown woman. She's off at school and then he's going to go to college and whatnot.

Henry Francis is in this castle. house alone with what she kicks in bitter mother like i told you she was worth nothing once yeah once nelson rockefeller's out office he probably he probably puts a bullet in his head right yeah exactly but speaking on and don and his family relationship i mean betty's right like don's not cut out for family because he doesn't even know what that is right like growing up how he did it's yeah you're lucky how we're all lucky how well don is after his crazy life Little Don Draper's whorehouse. That's a certain kind of living.

It would be great if Betty was like, look, I don't want you to turn Bobby and Gene into more of your drapers, okay? There's enough of them roaming the streets. That's what I couldn't remember. And this is, you know, eventually like a couple years from now, like I'll have to do a series rewatch or something. But was Betty in on that whole thing? Did she know the score about Don? Oh, yeah. That happens in like season three.

She finds out. She finds the box of all of his Like secrets. Oh, right, right. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's, I'm just not remembering this stuff. Also, going to be, before the whorehouse, like his actual father and stuff, which was terrible, like this, the Depression era.

Oh, the Dustball Draper's? Yeah, kicked to death by a horse. Yeah, the Whitman's. I, oh, right, Dust Bowl, Whitman's, excuse me. I also really happy about this last season. No more flashbacks with that fucking gawky looking kid. That always was like the death of that show for me. Oh, yeah. He

looked like the kid from that failed Fox show American Gothic. I understood it, but it always, like, it always stopped everything dead. I'm like, I just wish we weren't watching this. I didn't mind it just because and, you know, some of them I did mind, but like, I didn't mind them in general because a lot of those times we'd get like, oh, a hobo

teacher Don. This means their, this means that their farmer's daughter's pretty, and this means they make pie. I like the hobo code that they go to, go back to. Don Draper, man. and he lives by the Carney Code.

Somebody drapered him long ago, and now he's got to teach them how to draper. Exactly. That's W.H.M. on the screen for the conclusion of the great television series, Mad Men. If you want more information about the show, check out our website, WHMpodcast.com. Until next time, I'm Andrew Jupin. Eric Cisker. Stephen's say that.

Take it easy. Thank you.