We Hate Movies - S8: WHM On-Screen: Horror Franchise Wars: A Nightmare on Elm Street

Episode Date: October 30, 2017

Happy Halloween, gang! Just in time for the year's greatest holiday, we're here to rank the A Nightmare on Elm Street franchise! With wretched jokes, ridiculous back stories, actually produced fan fiction, a crude remake, and one Grade-A Tom Arnold/Roseanne Barr cameo, the Nightmare franchise has somehow aged into one of the worst of the "big" horror franchises. PLUS: John Saxon will always be there for a friend to ask, "How ya holdin' up?" Unlock Exclusive Content!: http://www.patreon.com/wehatemovies See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is a headgum podcast. We all go a little mad sometimes. You know, it's Halloween. I guess everyone's entitled to one good scare. Sometimes. Death is better. Zombies have entered the building. They're at the door.

They're coming in. It is time to keep your appointment with the Wickham. They're coming to get you, Barbara. He's sick for fucks he's seen one too many movies. Now, Sid! Don't you blame the movies! Movies don't create psychos! Movies make psychos! More creative!

Put the fucking illusion in the bad after! What an excellent day for an exorcism. Hello everyone, welcome to WHM on screen, our special Halloween edition. I am here alongside Steven Sadek, Eric Siska, and Christopher Cabin, recording to you live. Well, technically not live, but on location. Live in studio. In studio at the Burns. Live on tape.

We're just mere hours away from our live commentary on I know what you did last summer. And keeping in tradition of the Halloween franchise. Wars, as it were. This year, we are covering one of the worst, the Nightmare and Elm Street franchise. Bottom rung. Bottom rung. As far as franchises go, this is one of the worst ones easily.

I agree with Chris Cabin. I, you know, I find a good chunk of these movies watchable. Yeah, well, I'd say more than, like, Chris Cabin's venture into the Saw universe. I mean, that is the worst. Like, there's levels. Like, I'm not going to say there aren't levels. Like, I think Hellraiser is probably. probably a little worse than this, but not by a, not as big as you think.

Yeah, I mean, it's Hellraiser might win the worst for me. I love the, the one with Lance Henriksen and What's His Face and Superman in it? Oh, Harry Cavill. Yeah, where it's like, Lance Hendrickson's like, now you're stuck in this computer game I made. Whatever pinhead. And then Hellraiser just shows up to a party, uninvited. As always. That's the classic thing with that franchise, though, because it's just collecting

unproduced scripts of various movies from various genres, and then it's like, well, then the Cinebite show up. I will say, though, that franchise has three movies that I remember clearly from beginning to end, cannot say that about a nightmare on Elm Street. Hellraiser 25, wherever it goes with its, where it's an unproduced Woody Allen script. It's like a 70-year-old man, nebishly trying to romance a 14-year-old girl, and then Hellraiser murders him. We used to ride.

who used to ride on the on the on all the all the rides down on conny island and it was beautiful and i thought about the movie stars hellraiser is probably from coney island yeah that's i can see that yes yeah pinhead definitely originate the last stop on the f train oh i will show you such wondrous things beneath this hot dog cart here's michael murphy ivies on the beach All right, well, maybe we'll do that franchise next year. We got to figure that out. But so we'll get through this one. So as always, we go through the movies in order and say where we ranked them is the idea. And I think with this one, it's fairly easy to start off. A Nightmare on Elm Street, West Craven, 1984. That's everybody's number one pick, obviously, right?

Is it? No. Yes, it is. Yes, I'm of the opinion that the first movie is great. Start to finish. It's like a perfect movie. And if you've seen it, stop there. I agree. I 100% agree with Eric on this.

Do not go into this. It didn't need to be a franchise. No. More than any of the other ones. It's a good, and I mean, look, it's a cool movie. A, I love the original New Line logo at the beginning, the red and black one. Oh, man. It's just cheap.

It looks seedy as shit. You know, like, if that sign was above a motel, you're getting bedbugs from that new line logo. Vacancy? Yeah. I would stay at the New Line logo. line hotel right bob shay's turning down your covers you know i got a hobbit next door oh my lord it's a party guaranteed the golden compass people are doing the catering oh sure it would be just like that guy in the new documentary voyer the guy who videotapes all the people who come

into his uh into his hotel rooms and like just has a running this is a documentary there was a real life story some guy it was in like the new yorker i think and he masturbated a lot I don't know if he was masturbating to all of them. Yes. Some of them for sure. Yes. Okay. And what happens?

He got caught. Well, that's a short documentary. Yeah, I like this movie because Freddie is kind of like a hobo nightmare a little bit. You know what I mean? Big time. This guy could come out of a box card. Exactly. Like, he's just dirty and grungy.

And he's like doing more damage to himself at first to freak you out. Like, just just get in your head a little bit. He's like, I got my fingers off. Yeah. Oh, this dude. anything for you my nips are next the music's great the music's awesome not so much

not so much good going forward but the first movie is good you get you get a cool which they do this a lot in these movies actually the psycho twist where like you think it's the blonde Tina at first it's going to be her movie and then she dies and it turns into Heather Langancamp's movie right

yeah which is nice that's a nice thing to do And it looks like a movie that was made on a really, like nothing budget and came out. Like that there is a lot of energy to it. That's a lot of invention to it. Yeah, people were excited to be making this movie as it turned out. Of course, you know, the famous Johnny Depp deathbed scene. Oh, yeah.

Fantastic here. And Tina's swinging around in that room is fucking great, too. It's amazing. It's all, you know, the effects are all really cool, practical. Yep, you forget about her in the body back. I always forget the ending is a little home aloneish. You know, she's, yeah. She's getting ready for Freddie, man. She's getting the...

Just like the fat boys a few years later. What I do love is like her mom is getting totally blotto wasted. Yes. And she kind of... At one point, she looks at her and she's like, I'll deal with that nightmare tomorrow. Today, it's Freddy. Like, you know what I mean?

It's just like... One monster at a time. I can't handle everything at once right now. That will kill me eventually. This is going to kill me tonight. The beef with the movie that I have is that sequel set up at the end. It's a bad scene. Most of these movies end with cliffhangers or just, you know, your favorite, like, you're not going to believe this situation.

And as I recall from watching some of that, like, long-ass documentary about the series, West Craven didn't want to do that. And Bob Shea was like, but come on, the sequels. People would go to Nightmare and Elm Street, too, if that scene didn't happen. You know what I mean? Like, they'd be like, oh, another one of those movies that I like. Well, that's what really has sucked moving from the 90s to the. the aughts and now is like back then like at the end of batman oh the good old days batman 89 like there was no like i've heard of this oswald cobblop and he was running through the things and we

like hear about him on the fucking newspaper whatever the fuck and like no they just made the fucking sequel now i have to list of half your movie is setting up the next fucking movie i honestly want a t-shirt of you that says just make the fucking sequel like you know what if you're gonna make the sequel just make it god damn it don't hold my hand yeah i think it's great And it's not like we're, you know, it could have worked on its own. I even think at that, with that ending, it's like goofy enough almost to be like, just like, fuck you. Like, this is just going to be the end.

You're still asleep. It didn't work. You know, but it could have still just been what, you know, I don't need the witch to Black Billy's back. Like, Black Phillip, my friend. Black Phillip, sorry. Well, like, as it turns out, the sequel has nothing to do with any of the characters from the first movie anyway.

So it's pointless. It's just, it's just stupid. You know, now I want a Black Philip movie. Oh, absolutely. I never thought of that before. Black Phillip origin story. Or like just keep going. You know what I mean?

Like, oh, now the country's being founded or he's in the Civil War. So who else would like to live deliciously? It's kind of like a dog's purpose. 25 goats were killed. Get that goat in the pool now. The bullseed goat. Turns out they can't eat cans. Oh, my God.

What a terrible end for a goat. We got a lot of horns left. now, though. Oh, man. So, speaking of sequels. So that's number one for everybody, I think. Yeah, that's number one for everybody. So next up, we got A Nightmare at Elm Street, part two.

Freddy's Revenge from 1985 directed by a fella named Jack Scholder. Where does this sit with people? That's my number two. It's a clear number two. It's an actual movie still. It breaks all of the rules of the first movie, but I don't care. I think there's a lot

of cool shit going on. I think the pool scene's amazing. Love that pool scene. Like, I like that Freddy is like a fire demon in this for no reason. Like, it's just, you're just setting shit on fire. He's, like, manifesting in the real world. And I, I think it's a bet. I think it's number two for me, too. Okay.

It's definitely number two for me. Number three for me. Oh, shit. Chris Cabin. It's not, I mean, like, it's a, the, my second choice is a nostalgic choice. It was the first one I saw. So I feel like I had to give it a little bit more quickly. This one, but also, like, this one, I mean, this is where I felt the boredom starting to seep in.

Like, these movies get boring quick. And, like, after the first one where every minute I was like something's happening something's moving you know I don't feel like there's any lag this one I felt lagging the homosexual stuff is really kind of interesting and it's actually like this is a movie

that could be in a film class the first and the second one could be in a film class and everything else cannot yeah I love that I mean as the story goes like the guy writing the screen the screenplay who is gay was like I'm going to put all this stuff in the movie and then see

what happens and as it turned out nobody noticed. Which is amazing. It's so amazing. It's so crazy. But it's just awesome. It's like a totally different. I mean, that's what I like about it.

It's a sequel that is part of what turns out to be a franchise. But like it's completely different from that first movie in a lot of ways. Versus something like Friday the 13th 2 where it's like the same movie just with actual Jason or Halloween 2 where it's like a continuation of the first movie. This is like its own thing. It's like a riff on it. You know what I mean? Like, dreams, murder, got it.

Now we're doing something totally different. And, like, whether you like it or not, it's whatever, you know. Also, Kim Myers, who plays Lisa always reminded me of the red-headed girl from wild and crazy kids. Oh, right. That, like, wow, wow, wow, wild and crazy kid, wow. Yes. But, so wait, so, but Donnie Jeffcoat, Omar Gooding, and then I don't remember her name. I'll never remember her name.

There was two girls, there was a red-haired girl and, like, a dark-haired girl that they swapped out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I like this. And the guy playing the protagonist, Jesse, is an actor named Mark Patton. And I think he does a good job in this movie. I like the idea that, like, we've moved into the house. Yeah.

Because it kind of reminds me of there was a Fear Street trilogy that R.L. Stein wrote. Like, all, it was like all stories about, like, this, like, same, like, shitty haunted house or whatever. Yeah. So it's like, oh, now you're in the Elm Street house. It kind of reminds me of that. Well, it doesn't, like, Halloween 6 or something does that, too, right?

We're going back to the house. Back to the house. Obviously, wait, this was first, right? Wait. Yes. Before Halloween 6. Okay. Well, I don't know things.

I mean, I don't know things are. Well, you're right. That was way later. That was 90s. The first three do feel like their own movies to me. Like, I will say that. And like, but it's like when four starts is when the, when it starts blocking together for me. I will say that parakeet death is like number three on the death meter.

Like it's just, it's one of the best death of the series. It's just a bird exploding. It did not see it coming. Yeah. And the dad is. like so not wanting to believe that something's afoot and he's like well you know the air conditioning

has been broken in this house and the birds run hot you know it was like what are you talking about it your mother just left the oven on or something there's no it's not that hot I also love what he reveals finally that this was the Freddie Krueger murder house and he kind of has a grin on his face like dad got a good deal on this

one it's one of those like yeah we moved into a murder house but you would not believe the money I saved this family You're not going to get credit for that, pal. No, now everyone can go to college, cool. If you make it. I also like the fat guy with a shotgun. He should totally, I think this movie should end

with the fat guy with a shotgun killing Freddy at the pool party. That would be awesome. It had kind of a John Goodman and arachnophobia vibe from this guy. It felt like he could own a screen for a bit. There's also the great little detail of the friend of Jesse's,

like the kind of jockish dude who I guess they're like kind of friends. uh, foils, if you will. Yeah. He's definitely got a stray cats poster in his room. I was like, ooh, look at that Brian Setzer bang. Ooh, tear that down. You get, uh, Bob Shea as the, uh, bartender in the, in the gay club, which is fun. He just loves making cameos in the series.

Man. Uh, we'll get to the, we'll get to the worst one, uh, in a little bit. So, uh, so Nightmare and Elm Street three, we'll get into this, uh, the Dream Warriors from 1987 directed by Chuck Russell. Add this just right at three, just going down the line. Number four for me. Oh. Number three for me, actually.

Number two for me. So this was the first one you saw. It's the first one I saw. And I remember the television that very clearly. Welcome to primetime biotch. Mostly for that line. Also, Larry Fishburn. Larry Fishburn, credit it as Larry Fishburn, which is what you want.

These are the two best actors in this entire franchise, which is obviously Patricia Arquette and Lawrence Fishburn, both in this movie. That's, you know. Are you not counting body doubles? Craig Watson on that. No, I have not. Is that fucking Bill Mar? Yes, Bill Mar. Yes. He is, he's waiting. I mean, he's been doing fucking nothing.

He is waiting for Bill Mar to die so he can make the Bill Mar movie. Just act like an asshole for two hours. Yeah, you know, man. One for the Bill Mar movie? We got one! No, no, no. Todd Solens is real time. Starring

Craig Wasson. Oh, man. Yeah. It's about whatever the scandal murders Bill Mares. I'm into that. I'm kind of into that. It's definitely a suck scandal. Yeah, of course. There's like 20 minutes alone on the making of DC cab. I can see that happening. You know, other

acting heavyweights in this movie, John fucking Saxon, who should have been the Loomis of this franchise. You're absolutely correct. Bring him into every movie. You said that to me... A. John Saxon is fucking available. Well, yeah, John Saxon will do your movie. You said this a couple weeks ago, and when you said it, I was like, I can't believe I haven't thought of

this already. What a great idea. Yeah, he's just a crooked sheriff. He's like, you know, maybe he's not the star of every movie, but he's like, I know that Fred Kruger. Yeah, he'll be 14 times already. I'll take care of this. Zeequil, Zeequil, Zee, Quill, Zee, Quill, Zeeqa. Daddy's got to go to work. I appreciate the return of Heather Langenkamp in this, too.

There's a great moment where, like, Freddy sees her in the dream world and is like, you. Which is kind of a nice thing, sort of a cool moment. She's also kind of smartly murdered in this. movie, which is kind of nice. That sort of prevents her from coming back in sequels, which is kind of okay. And I thought there were some good deaths here. The first one with the kid with the puppet strings thing, I thought was really good. Oh, that guy who looks like Sean Ashton. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, that's why I don't mind watching him plummet off that bell tower. Yeah, that's a cool one. I mean, the mental hospital thing is cool. I do like skeleton

Freddy at the end of this. Oh, Freddy. Yes. I love that. I love that. That kind of doesn't last long enough as far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned, that's what he should be from now on. Put that fucking hat on a skeleton and that's your four, five, and six. I would love it. Oh man, that would be pretty great. Probably not as many box

off residuals. Probably more of a direct to VHS puppet master territory. Is this the first of the bullshit Catholicism stuff that we get? Because it's not in the first one. It's definitely not in the second one. Yeah. Like then we're just, you know, we're consecrating grounds. There's a nun in every

movie yeah yeah i mean they have to add something it can't just be i'm a dream guy i would actually do something no just make it inventive deaths and like make it about the community and be done with it no more mythology no no no no attempting to get back at fred kruger no i don't need it i mean you're always so he's just it's just murdering children and then credits it's gonna happen anyway i guess that's right i guess you got me there well we ran out of time this time, see you next year. Bye bye. I don't know.

Like, I just don't need to know, as we'll get into with the next couple movies, like his fucking family tree, man. Like, were his fucking ancestors on the Mayflower? I don't care. I guarantee you it was in a draft. Oh, I'm sure. My great-grandfather's names are the Liberty Bell.

Or all those times, he's, in Freddy's dead when it's all those times, throughout history. Oh, my God. Him and the Saxons hanging out. We'll get back into that. We did a whole damn episode on it, but it's pretty low on the list for me.

Yeah. All right, so getting into a nightmare on Elm Street for the Dream Master from 1988, surprisingly directed by Rennie Harlan, by the way. Pretty nice little detail there. So this sort of kicks off

like the next chapter because, you know, Nancy is killed, John Saxon is killed, that like wipes out those characters. uh so we come in with this new set of characters sort of coming from the third movie all the kids from the home that are left patricia arquette is recast yeah uh i guess there's a couple of different things floating around the internet but i think the most logical one was like she was pregnant at the time yeah so that's fine or or you know what maybe she just got an offer to do a much better movie boyhood she started boyhood she was pregnant with boyhood you're gonna have boyhood pretty soon Richard Link Ladder's, like, working at a fucking mall somewhere.

Hey, you want to start a 25-year movie? I saw this baby the other day, and I said, that's my movie. But, yeah. My drug dealer, Ethan Hawke's going to be in it, too. Oh, yeah. So you also, like, you have Kincaid comes back. Kristen, which was Patricia Arquette's character's recast with Tuesday Night, and Joey, who was, like, the mute kid from the third movie.

he's back and he's just talking everything's fine. We feel that we've vanquished Freddie everybody's fine. Kincaid is attending school again. He's got a dog named Jason by the way. Oh, right. That's fun. Oh, I didn't notice that.

Rankings, I guess we should do. Yes, I have this fifth. I have this at number three actually. I have this at six. Oh, wow. Fifth. Wow. Yeah. I guess I like this the most. I don't know. It seems prototypical of like If I had to give somebody

a nightmare on Elm Street's sequel, I'd be like, this is the one to watch. Like, it just, it has all of the sequelness of it. Like, obviously the second one is the best sequel, but this one's like, just, you know, it's Freddy in a high school, killing a bunch of kids, and then we're out of there. It's kind of back to, like, the original formula. It's a nice reset thing.

Also, it's... It's made by a real director. Yeah, sure. Which is the biggest thing. So, like, it looks... I was going to say it looks like a movie. They all look like movies. But, like, this more than the other sequels, looks like. like a movie that's a little more interesting to watch. Yeah. There's good deaths. I also think

I don't like the kids in the third movie and I'm glad that they're murdered in the beginning of this movie and then we kind of just move on to a new because that's why I fault the third movie because you're supposed to love those kids and I'm like, get me out of here. Now. The third one, the fourth one, I just think that like cool. I think Alice is pretty cool.

It's super 80s. That scene where she's getting ready and then she goes, fucking A. Yeah. I love it. I mean, it's just to me, this is where I lose all sense of, like, what's going on. Like, this... I have no idea what's going on.

Four, four, five, and six, I genuinely don't remember a fucking thing about. The minute it's off. Like, I took notes to remember. But, like, in general, like, that, I could feel myself while watching it being like, I'm not going to remember a fucking thing of this. This looks like, A, it's just convoluted to shit.

Sure. Well, this one gets really confusing. And maybe someone can explain it to me because I've seen these movies a bunch of times, and I still don't get it. How is it that she's traveling through time in the dreams? What the fuck is going on with that? She gets... It's the fountain.

They're doing the fountain. I believe what's her face, Patricia Arquette's character, like, bequeaths her some dream powers on her way out, which is... AKA drugs. AKA drugs. This is... Go back to a classic thing. Stupid magic.

It's kind of stupid. It's just stupid magic. And this is where they amp that shit up, and it becomes worse, and everyone... from here. Six, it explodes. Yeah, that's fair. I love the kid that looks like Eli Manning, her boyfriend. Yeah, oh, that dude definitely looks like

Eli Manning. And also the idea that she works at a diner, like some of the, like. And not a drive-in nor a dive, but a diner specifically. Yes, that serves pizza A, get me out of their Springwood, Illinois. Oh, my God. Ohio. Ew. First of all, yeah, you're in Ohio.

Second of all, you're eating pizza at a diner. Diary at town. Oh, my. God, diner pizza in Ohio. So that was one of the horror thrills of this movie. Yeah. You're going to shit out your large intestine.

The bathroom's broken. Man, that is a nightmare shitting my pants in a diner because the bathroom's out of order. Oh, there's always a kind of go and I guess I'm just going to have to shit in the parking lot. I guess that's what we're doing. Well, isn't that what you would do just to keep him, like, to stay awake, I would just like sit on the toilet.

Like, because I'm always ready. Oh, I've, I've, I've fallen asleep on some toys. Hold on a second. Do you think Elvis Presley was trying to ward off Fred Kruger? Better go to my gold throne. He's coming from me. And it didn't help. He gets killed in the end by Fred Kruger.

Yeah. I said one, two, Fred's coming for you. And three, four, better lock that door. Five, six, I grab a crucible, Fred. Seven, A, I'm going to stay up late. Nine, ten, I never sleep. Get up, Elvis. Shut up, Elvis.

He accidentally starts counting sheep and falls to sleep. Is this the one, like, you said the diner thing, this is the one where they keep on blank, oh, is the hunk going to like the shy girl? Yes. Is the hunk going to like the shy girl? Am I going to give a fuck? Probably not. It's a high school thing, man.

What else are you going to do? It's a trope. It was a welcome, a welcome trope. To establish a world. I know it's cliche garbage. But we're in Fredtown. It was also nice to see those kids just get together. Yeah.

You know, just a dumb jock that looks like Eli Manning and some woman with dream powers. Yeah. Of course. That's definitely what I go for the next installment of pork rib man. Pork rib man. Oh, I should have said in the last movie in Dream Warriors, Freddy looks exactly like Jerry Jones, like the most like Jerry Jones. All right. So now we're into a Nightmare in Elm Street.

Five, The Dream Child, from 1989, directed by Stephen Hopkins. I'll tell you what, for whatever reason, I have this at four. I found this more watchable than part four for some reason. This was number seven for me, man. Oh, wow, really flushing the toilet on this one, huh? I really just, there's a low death count. It's boring as sin, Eric. Well, we just did five last, right?

We're doing five five right now. We're doing five right now. Oh, no, Eric, you fell asleep. God. This is a dream child. This is the dream child. So six. You have this six?

Yes. I have this at four as well. Okay. This is four. This is the one with the Kruger baby. Yes. Yes. That's what gives it that.

Okay. It's so stupid. And like, like at that at some point I had to like switch from like I'm going to seriously think of like a hangover movie like this is what I need from it to like how crazy stupid is it. Yeah. In this listing. That was what really pushed me. And that whole scene with the little. fucking thing all right it's so it's so stupid we're doing so much freddie's fucking family tree in this

one though guys i know and i don't know what to tell you dude but i remember when i finished this movie i was like fuck i like this more than the last one somehow i don't i don't know even though i don't need the scene where uh freddie's mother the nun is raped by a hundred maniacs or a thousand man oh my god i do love the guard 10,000 maniacs i do love the guard at the beginning he's like 99 maniacs 97 all right forget it lock the door there's no none in there right lock the door for the weekend that guard surprisingly enough natalie merchant played up oh that makes so much sense um i like that i like that this is a continuation with the alice character i do i do too i do like that character um not a ton of other memorable characters in this movie this is this the motorcycle guy gets yes you get to

to do a motorcycle. That is stupid, man. This is the grossest one, and I don't like it. Freddie the motorcycle? Yes. Freddie, the motorcycle. It's better than my mother the car. I guess.

That, there's like the dinner scene with the posh girl and like her cheeks. Oh, God, I hate that. It's a garbage pale nonsense. It is. She looks like the radiator, the lady in the radiator from a racer head. They're a big, like, chipmunk cheeks. It reminded me of Monty Python's, uh, Oh, God damn.

Eat a mint? Yes. Yeah. No. Meaning of life. Meaning of life. Meaning of life. Better get a bucket.

There's also the comic book scene, which we all love. Oh, it looks like a fucking aha video. Yeah. No, I'm... He says Super Freddy. This has to be in the bottom three for anyone. Anytime he says, it's Super Freddy. Oh, someone's killed in the movie theater.

Let me get rid of him. It's Super Freddy time. Fart, fart, fart, fart, fart, fart. You know what that is? Uh-huh. That is freakishly stupid. That gets points for me. Okay.

For this specific franchise. Actually, I think this is, now I'm remembering, though, I think this is what my reasoning was. Okay. In four, the one friend who looks like the character from, say, by the bell, that they, like, threw out the window, Tori. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a woman in this in four that looks like Tori. Yes. Is she not turned into a spider?

No, that's in... Is that this one? That's in four. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. In four, that woman who looks like Tori from Samed by the Bell that's turned into a spider. Yes.

That is so fucking repugnant and wretched and I almost vomited and I hate spiders. Sure. I think that's what must have done it. I ended five and I was like, oh, no spider transformation. Pretty cool. Hey, pretty cool. That's fair. There's a Freddie baby, but you know what?

No spider lady. I like that. Uh, all right. So now, now we're just, we're getting into it. Freddy's dead. Freddy's Dead, the Final Nightmare from 1991, directed by Rachel Tallulay. This is the one we did an episode on, on The Spooktacular, a couple weeks back. I have this at number eight.

Yeah, no, yeah, number eight for me. I have it on number five. Number five, wow. Seven. Okay. Wait, so, Cabin. Mine's up more because I, like, again. You really love Tom Arnold Canada.

I just, again, freakishly stupid. Like, just out of this world, freakishly stupid. And, like, the other thing is, I don't, if, other than New Nightmare, correct me if I'm wrong, there's, this is the last in, this is the only one in the 90s. Yes. And New Nightmare isn't really following the formula of the way that, like, this has a very specific taste to it. Whereas four and five kind of mesh together to me. Yeah, this one, it's like, it's like, it's like spoiled cheese wrapped in a used diaper. But it's all by itself in the corner of the fridge.

But, Chris, you're the one that's saying like fuck mythology. and in this one we get like the dream people and the goblins got into my dream soul and I wish it was about them it's all the fucking daddy shit and like Fred Kruger like just making it on the scene as a serial killer or whatever the fuck And the fact that this movie has the audacity

in like the first act when you see like one of these mysterious flashbacks to even attempt to cover up the fact that the dude walking around that backyard is someone other than Freddie Krueger What are you talking about? What are you fucking talking about? Of course it is. Why would you bother trying to cover that up?

And, like, this is the one where you know that he's really just trying that material just to get a fucking a spot at the comedy store. Oh, yeah. No thing. He's trying to get his tight five. Yeah, this is the one where we're really getting into the full Bugs Bunny. Oh, yeah. Well, the Breckenmeyer's bouncing around in the video game simulation, man. It's so that shit alone.

A falling death and a Freddie Currie. movie no thank you it just falls in a hole well that's the weird like we talked about this on the episode but like the physics of that movie where like when you die people are just evaporating

or just falling into bottomless pits no that's a new thing that I don't need I need Tina dragged across that fucking ceiling man like what are you talking about with this opening up magic portals or whatever the fuck ditto yeah is this the one with the chest shit at the end of it they all kind of

no that's the four maybe or four or five I think it's four, four ends in the church. Yes, that's, that's what I think that's, look at my nipples. Yeah, oh yeah, my kid nipples. So it seems like they're all running into each other and you can't tell them apart. Yeah. It's strange how that goes.

Oh, well, congratulations, Eric. All right, so moving on, now we're getting really weird. New Nightmare from 1994, directed again by West Craven, his triumphant return to the franchise. We see our episode on this from 100 years ago. knows at this point. It's been a couple. That's a back cataloger if I ever saw one. The Saxons are listening to it. Uh, rewatching this one, one of the things that I don't know if we pointed it out on the episode, but I was realizing this time the fucking drama. Oh yeah. Like, we are amping up the mellow drama in this movie. I don't need it. I don't care that you directed

fucking tales of the heart or whatever that shitty movie. Music from the heart. Stop it. Just stop it. I don't need emotional horror movies. I'll tell you what I need is more, uh, is a side movie of John Saxon concerned friend oh yeah like he's just so worried like it's just like him like bothering like oh no billy lost his mother oh no and then my friend fred had a divorce and then like when do i have time for myself these are all the cut scenes from being the player just him talking like how are you holding up yeah exactly just like a hundred minutes 100 minutes of him talking to everyone he knows how you hold it up uh uh i have have this at number six. I got this at five.

Seven. Eight. Ooh. I fucking hate this movie. I hate a fucking like, oh, it's, it's clever because it's like meta or whatever. And then these actors playing themselves and they're somehow even worse than acting. It's just, it's fucking awful. You need to recast Heather Langenkamp. I'm sorry. Like she can't, she does not pull this off. You know, it's, it's asking a lot. Yes. All the shit with the kid at home and the babysitter and who gives the fuck. I think that this movie flirts with interesting stuff. Like, I think the first scene's pretty good.

I think, uh, the, like, I don't know, like the earthquake stuff's weird and kind of interesting, like the claw marks. It's all kind of there. It's a bad movie. Yeah. There's a bunch of, like, decent ideas or like seeds of ideas, but like you're watering that flower pot with Mountain Dew. And I will tell you, this is the only one that's a hangover movie for me. Like, this is just like a, it's on, it's very quiet. It's like, it's kind of a dull drama.

with some horror elements. I could see that. My God, this would make a hangover go nuclear. This is bad. I'll tell you, Chris Cabin. I've watched this movie hungover before, and it was okay. I'm not saying it's not going to help you out. I'm saying I will lose my fucking mind if I turn this on.

I like how you tested it in the field. Absolutely, dude. I don't know. The thing that really bothers me, because I'm looking at it right now, the look that they give this demon that's supposed to be Freddie Kruger. it looks terrible like here I'll show you you can look at it right now so everybody in the studio can see it

what shit this is the most like Chinese barbecue beef tips man it is disgusting everything about it looks false like the clothing the hats nothing looks lived in he's wearing leather pants leather pants well that's the weird thing it's like oh radiation

elemental force it's like well then why is he wearing leather pants like you know what I mean he's from like the give him like a medieval outfit or something something oh yeah he's walking around his suit of armor I could go for that yeah or he's dressed like an 18th century blacksmith

maybe oh that would be pretty cool that's how he forges his knife fingers yeah it's another wrought iron yeah oh shit yeah that would be fucking cool yeah it just it looks dumb I hate how the voice is modulated but also even though it's like this demonic whatever the hell

that is sort of taking the form of Robert England playing Freddy Kruger somehow this demonic thing still knows to like make some jokes here and there when he's like hey Dylan ever play skin the cat and I'm like no no no no you're a thing from hell you don't make jokes

no no no what the fuck are you doing I don't know the devil's always funny yeah the devil is always hilarious supposed to be kind of funny yeah I mean the big mistake of this movie is they don't have enough Robert England who is the best actor in the movie which is sharing something you know what i mean like you're giving like west craven a ton of dialogue that scene with bob jay oh my god when he's trying to like court heather langen camp to coming back to

the franchise whatever whatever the opposite of what that thing we send like all the great things of culture out into space the opposite of that shove the bob shay scene in that shove all of his scenes in this fucking franchise into that buried in the ground and set the ground on fire oh yeah dude i think we can accommodate that. Send it to the core. There you go. Melt it right down. Nine million degrees, dude, or whatever.

No, you're going to put that on the, you're going to make the lava men watch Bob Shea. Like, oh, I like real Bob Shea. Yeah, that's what I watch. It's tough working down here with all the lava. Well, what's this? Oh, no. It's going to say, you're going to make them revolts, and then they're going to come up and kill us. That's a good point.

The whole volcanoes go off. Another dumb part of this movie in the credits, by the way, there's a credit for Freddie Kruger as himself. Oh boy That's delightful It is so delightful Dude it's got a tone problem man It really does I mean we probably went over this

You know a million times The episode itself but And again not enough John Saxon I like yeah Speaking of John Saxon I do like how And the movie takes way too long to do this Yeah I know you're talking about

But at the end of the movie When he's like Nancy who's John What are you talking And like the real world She crosses into the movie I was like that's something That's the thing

That's what I want to see more of hour ago. By the way, this is the longest of the movies, probably, I think. An hour and 52 minutes? It has to be. It has to be. You know who you could cut? That sleazy limo driver from the beginning? Oh, man. Oh, that guy will watch you sleep. All right, so

now getting into Stupid City even further. 2003's Freddy versus Jason, directed by Ronnie Yu. I had this guy at seven. I got it at six. Four. Oh, eight. Oh, whoa. Four, huh?

Four, yeah. Nice, dude. So this is your favorite movie. It's my favorite movie of all time. We did an episode on it, too. If you haven't listened to that episode, go back and listen to it. Was that two spooktaculars ago? A couple spooker.

Yeah. And it's on tape that I hate it. It's verified. It should be clear that, like, after I think the first three, like, at least for me and Eric, it's all garbage, and we're just picking out the little scenes we like. I'm trying to find which turd has the least amount of corn kernels in it. I hate this movie. hate Freddy in it. I hate what they're doing. I hate the concept of Freddie versus Jason,

no matter how many dumb comic book tie-ins there are. But it's got Jason, which is I prefer. You know, it's like, sure, you got Fred Krueger, but my best friend, he's right here. And, you know, getting back to the idea of the formula, it's got, it's just killing kids. And there's some, there's some slurs in the movie, which are unfortunate. Yeah, very unfortunate. Kelly Rowland's in this movie. It's dumb. I hate the head wink at the end, but I can sit, it's like a hangover movie for me compared to the other ones.

This is a movie you can catch on cable and like depending. I can imagine myself like getting ready for work and like this is on the sci-fi channel and the me kind of being like, oh, this scene maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'll watch this for a little bit. Yeah, I could see myself doing that. It's not a very good movie, as we've said.

But yeah, I do like that Jason's in it. And some of the deaths are cool at the very least. I do think the kegger scene is a lot of fun. Yeah, that's not in the cornfield. Yeah, that thing. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. There's things in that movie.

I saw that movie twice in the theater, which was a huge mistake, but at least I didn't pay for either one. Sure. Yeah, it's a better hangover movie than New Nightmare is. It just feels like a fan fiction to me. Oh, Midtown. It stinks of it. And like, none of it to me, the Kelly Rollins thing is horrible and it's hard to get over alone. But, like, on top.

We've never said that. We've been making movies, Freddy movies for 20 years. No one said that word until 2000. Are you kidding me? So that alone should tell you where we're at. But like also they shoot this a lot like a Final Destination movie.

Big time. And I was like, well, Final Destination has a reason for shooting it that way. They've really thought that through. This, it doesn't really add anything. It just makes it look a little better. Yeah, well, it's like let's make it look like something that's really popular right now. Let's not have our own aesthetic. Let's borrow another.

I mean, you took 10 years trying to figure this movie out and swing and a miss. Yeah, it's trash. Yeah, it's absolute trash. Speaking of Swing and a Miss with absolute trash, a Nightmare on Elm Street from 2010, directed by Samuel Bayer. I rewatched this last night, and some of you may have seen my Instagram. I videotaped myself throwing this Blu-ray in the garbage can, and that's where it remains to this day. This movie is so much worse than I remembered it being. I didn't like it when it was out.

this thing is hot garbage this for me is at number nine it's at the bottom of the pot absolute nine it's a hot nine nine nice it's nine's all around it's like and I think I maybe in one of the earlier Freddie arguments I talk about it's like oh maybe it'd be interesting like just make them a child molester that's what we're talking about man was I wrong because this is it's like it's got all the tact in grace of a fucking bad SVU episode like some of the worst years of SVU by far it's just so classless and mean and shitty It's like 40 minutes we're dwelling on, like, kids being molested and murdered. And then Freddie has absolute zero sense of humor in this reboot.

And I was like, oh, wait, that's why. You can't talk about molesting children for an hour. By the way, it's going up now. 40 minutes, now we're talking about it for an hour. Yeah. And you can't just do jokes after that. No, you can't. No, you can.

This makes you like the jokes. Yeah. To me, after. Yep. Yes. I didn't like the jokes. I hated the jokes. And no, I missed them.

dude exact same feeling for me i'm sitting there last night like boy dupin you fool you fucking fool you've spent nothing but weeks rambling endlessly about how stupid the jokes are and then here we are in the most humorless cold piece of shit iteration that you could have done with a reboot for this and my god is it terrible i'll tell you another thing well did you have something cabin well i just i i hate to see jack earl haley like continue to be fucking typecasted yeah well he's just it's like little children meets war Rorschach and like that's it. Like literally he's more warm and cuddly in little children by a humongous measure. By a humongous measure. Well, the weird thing about the molestation

thing is like in the Freddie mythos, it's like you kind of almost side with him a little bit. Whoa. He's a bad. Listen, Steve does not, he's not speaking for the rest of us. It's just him. Look, he's a child murderer, which is a bad dude. Like that guy should go to hell and he should get, you know, but like vigilante justice brings him down against his will and now he's got a vendetta against people and he's just going to kill their kids he's just going to kill their kids continue to kill their kids

They should have gotten him on a civil suit afterwards And I don't believe in the death penalty And I'm like you know what Fred Kruger's a little aggrieved I kind of get it But in this movie he just I molested your kids and I'm going to keep molesting your kids in the afterlife because I'm a fucking creek And Freddie wants to fuck in this movie man

Does Freddy want to fuck? Oh, absolutely he does. And the whole, I mean, Jackie O'Haley's performance in this movie is terrible. But the way that they make him look, which is like the makeup is so terrible that like his eyes are barely open. He can't fucking move his mouth when he speaks. And because of that, all of this is some of the most horrendous ADR I have heard. And his voice is like modulated and you can tell it's not in that moment they're filming these takes coming out. out of the actor's mouth at any point in this movie.

It's so fucking frustrating. The playful, like, the jokes were playful, and it made the conflict, like, it amped it up. Sure. That he would, like, joke to me like, oh, maybe you got me. I don't know. Oh, no. And, like, stuff like that. This, like, because of the way they designed the character and the way they wanted the

character to be, he always seems like he's got it on over anybody. So there's no tension in those scenes. Just waiting for him to kill them. Sure. And, like, I mean, Rooney, Mara, man. I think, I mean, that's the only good thing. do is they put Rooney Mara in this movie and I mean like that's not a good thing she's sleepwalking the

whole fucking top I mean it literally and vaguely it's a good bar bet like you know Rooney Marr was on that Friday I couldn't believe that yeah yeah I screamed when I saw like that come on the screen the scariest part of the movie it kind of was I was like what and the absolutely the nadir of this

franchise this entire idea is when A they they dress Runei Mara in the fucking communion dress which is like that's given somebody something and like you know no Oh, yeah, totally. And she's running down the hall and it's made of blood and, like, fucking creepy Fred Kruger's like, hey, talk about a wet dream, right? Oh, yeah.

Because, like, jizz, but it's blood. It's like, you know what, dude, no thank you. And both liquids. And also, like, you know, the first movie, like the original movie, it's like, yep, all these parents did this thing and they don't tell their kids about it and it's fine. And that's what it is. Yeah, it's like, whatever. And then, like, he comes back and, you know, the Heather Langenkamp's alcoholic mother has to tell the tale over a bottle of vodka.

She's splitting with herself in the Lord. But in this movie, it's them being like, were we friends with each other as kids? Yeah. No, what's that? And it's this whole thing of, like, we were hoping you repressed being molested by this dude that we also murdered. And by the way, these parents, you've got Connie Britton, wasted, wasted in this movie. She's an amazing actor, just totally wasted here.

And also wasted Clancy Brown as one of the dads. That's a cardinal sin in movies. If you put fucking Clancy Brown in this movie, he needs to be in this movie. He needs to be doing stuff. And he needs to be not the high school principal. He needs to be the fucking sheriff. John Saxon Roll, period. Yep.

Like you're aping so much of that first movie down to like, you know, like the quote unquote, like hot babe is murdered in the same exact way. as the first movie and the boyfriend's blamed for it and he goes to jail he fucking dies in jail like it's all that same shit it's a little meaner because the guy has a has a cellmate he's like oh shit that's another 30 years on myself yeah yeah totally fucking great this guy's getting blamed for ramming his chest his fist through that dude's chest yeah also the 80s once there was this great juxtaposition between like the kids were doing drugs and having you know premarital sex and all that and they were having fun doing it yes and that's juxtaposed towards the murder and the death and all that stuff. Sure. This one, they're not having, I mean, I think they're doing drugs. They're not having fun doing it, though. Nobody's having fun.

And it doesn't seem like many people are having sex, really. It's a sexual abuse drama with fucking Jackie Earl Haley killing the kids. Yeah. Great. Fantastic. It's wonderful. 99 minutes of this. I do like the first scene with a kid cuts his own throat.

Oh, Kell and Lutz from Twilight, by the way. Yeah, that's kind of, that's where I, because I never saw this before. And I was like, okay, maybe this movie isn't as bad as everybody thought. And it's like, oh, no, it's much worse. No. It's just like, that's like a totally fine scene. Also, what's obnoxious about this movie, and I was realizing it last night, in the whole franchise, one of the greatest things they do is you never know when someone's dreaming. Yep.

And you only find out, like, as something fucked up starts happening. Right. In this movie, stylistically, it's like, the lights go down, the fucking color changes, like the color temperature, the frame changes. And it tells you right away, like, hey, everybody, she's sleeping. And it's like, come on, man. The one thing that's kind of interesting and they don't do anything with it is they talk about how

when your brain is deprived of sleep and you start dreaming and you don't know it. There's all that kind of cool stuff and you're sort of hallucinating. There's like one good moment where they fucking just redo the body bag shot from the first movie. And Rudy Mara is like,

the guy is like, what's going on? And she's like, oh, I just saw whatever in a body bag. And like, do more of that. That stuff was kind of cool. Like these hallucinations. and things. Can I stop 30 tweets right now really quickly? Everybody in this room knows that West Craven initially

wrote Freddie Kruger to be a child molester and then it changed. That's fine. It was a good decision. You know what I mean? Everybody made out in that decision. Occasionally the producers are right. Occasionally they are right. I mean, the end of this movie, dude, I need ICE tea to come

in and shoot this guy in the fucking face. Let me say this. This shines a very positive light on the Friday of the 13th remake. Absolutely. and the two fucking Rob Zombie movies. Oh my whole. Yep, absolutely. Way, way better. This is a low point and they do have the audacity to set up a sequel in two ways.

One is so like the end of the movie, they like burn him and he's like quote unquote like in the real world or whatever. And we're doing like the standard. We're getting in the ambulance scene. And you hear some guy like, we didn't find a body. And I'm like, okay, nice fucking throwaway thing. And then this last scare of. Rooney Mara, like, looking at Connie Britton, and then, like, the fucking glove coming through the mirror, going through this woman's face and, like, the knives cut out the eyeballs, and he drags her by the head through this mirror a little too much. I was okay with that.

I honestly, it's a call back to the original, obviously, like, the thing. And I, and, like, the fact that the mirror kind of goes regular again, it's gruesome, it's stupid, but at least it's not about, like, trying to fuck children. It's a little too gory But you know And I often think We live in a dystopian Alternate timeline That's terrible

But I was thinking watching this remake Imagine if that Jason remake And this remake Spawned five sequels each Wow Imagine if that was the world We were living in You did it America

You stopped these movies You voted with your wallet You stopped the movie We stopped two monsters Not the third monster Just two monsters Third time's a charm And then eight years later

We're going to remake him again, don't worry Well that's what's so I mean it's so interesting about This versus remaking the other two big franchises like the other two Motherfuckers got a mask on Does not matter I do not care if you think Kane Hodder is the best Jason

It does not matter But like this where it's like Robert England puts so much in Making that character for better or worse And then you got Jackie Earl Haley Who like can't even fucking speak for himself Until he's in the recording studio Like you can't

I don't know I don't think this, I think they're going to learn their lesson with this. Like that was a fucking atrocious failure. We will never try to reboot it. It's already in pre-production. No, no, I don't believe that. It's on the IMDB. Oh, yeah.

Okay. Oh, it's on the IMDB. What a legally binding piece of information that is. But, you know, I do think, I think they will eventually reboot it. There's no way they don't make another one of these. I think they've, I hope they've learned their mistakes. And I feel like when they reboot Jason, and even though that got canceled and started and canceled again.

It's been canceled so many times. It's like fucking family. I feel like there's enough shit going on in our culture, you know, like with the resurgence of like stranger things, like the 80s nostalgia, that I think they could get it right if they do it again now. That's an idea, though.

You want to do this? Remake it, reboot it in 1984. Sure. That's your Freddie movie. Well, I think we posited that before. I think that is really the way you have to go. if you're going to do this at all. But like, like, yeah, Freddie and Jason in 2018 with, with the man in the White House, like, come on.

It's like, that's, I mean, you're totally right because there's nothing fucking scarier. It's sort of like, and that's just, it's not even like this franchise, but just a general question of like, where does horror go? Yeah. I didn't, I didn't see the It remake. Is that set in the past in the 80s, right? Yes, it is. So there you go. That's the thing.

Instead of the 60s, it's the 80s. Either Dreammaster or Dreamchild is on the Marquis in the It remake. Oh, that's right. I forget which one, but that is there. So see, that made a bajillion dollars, even though it was only okay.

I think that's why they're fine. Why Chris's IMDB thing is probably right because that movie did make a bajillion dollars and it's kind of the same thing so you could just do it again. Right. They're going to do, trust me, they're going to do all of them.

And that Halloween, it's already happened again. That's definitely happening. That I understand. But here's my thing. It's all about casting. And here's the, here's the thing like Robert England he's not a particularly like dark

guy you know like you look at Jackie Earl Haley and it's like that guy's got fucking corpses in the basement and I don't think it can be that you got to dial it back got to find someone I mean maybe you go the route of an unknown sure you know you can get Jim Carrey going I think that'd be kind of something you would have fun with that oh man that would actually be kind of cool it would be a weird reinvention

for his career or or if you you had to pay him and you have to get a good director oh shit we have to pay him Michael Shannon oh oh oh man maybe i think i don't know about that maybe him is john saxton oh yeah oh that would be pretty cool but yeah can you imagine just like welcome to prime time bitch well because i can see him thinking it's a challenge like him having to like actually do something different totally michael you haven't come out of your house in three days it's john saxon i got coffee out

here go away john how you doing doing fine Ah, and that is the Nightmare and Elm Street rankings We should go through the rankings one more time Oh right Some people complain about this on the internet So for those people, turn it off now So we'll go through Steve Sadek Why don't you start us off

Yeah, I got Nightmare 1, 2, 4, 3 New Nightmare, Freddy versus Jason Nightmare 5, Nightmare 6 And then the Nightmare Remake Eric Okay, so 1, 2, 3, 3,000, three freddie versus jason four five six new nightmare and then the remake at the bottom all right uh nightmare on elm street three two five six four new nightmare freddie versus jason remake boom uh one two three

five four new nightmare freddie versus jason freddie's dead uh and then that atrocious remake at the bottom uh so happy halloween we hate movies listener thanks for tuning in and get ready for Snipes Giving coming up in just a few short days at this point. And, you know, while we're talking about Snipesgiving, we're doing a show at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. Come on down, November

18th. That's a Saturday night. The Bellhouse, n.y.com ticket. And that is, of course, part of the Brooklyn Podcast Festival. Tickets are 15 bucks. 7 o'clock doors, 7.30 show, Blade, Trinity. So once again, happy Halloween. Until next time, I'm Andrew Juipin. Chris Cabin. Eric Cisca.

Steven Sadek. Take it easy. We all go a little mad sometimes. You know, it's Halloween. I guess everyone's a title of one good scare. Sometimes. That is better. Zombies have entered the building. They're at the door. They're coming in. Time to keep your appointment with the Wicterman. They're coming to get you, Barbara. He's sick for fucks. He's seen one too many movies.

Now, Sid, don't you blame the movies. Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos. Or create a... Put the fucking looser in the bag! What an excellent day for an exorcism? That was a hit-gum part. podcast.