We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - BTC190: MMA Legend Kenny Florian on PoW and Bitcoin (Bitcoin Podcast)

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to TIP. Hey everyone, welcome to this Wednesday's release of the Bitcoin Fundamentals podcast. Today we have the versatile, legendary UFC fighter Kenny Florian, a former UFC fighter and the host of the popular TV show BattleBots, who's known for his incredible work ethic and resilience. We'll explore his journey in MMA and the concept of proof of work and how his background led him to Bitcoin. We'll also discuss why top-tier athletes are drawn to Bitcoin, among many of

Starting point is 00:00:30 fascinating topics, for instance, Kenny's near-death experience. But with all that said, let's go ahead and jump right into this interview with the savage Mr. Kenny Florian. Celebrating 10 years, you are listening to Bitcoin Fundamentals by the Investors Podcast Network. Now for your host, Preston Pish. Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I'm here with the one and only Kenny Florian. Welcome to the Investors podcast and Bitcoin Fundamentals. Thanks so much for having me. man, been listening for a very long time. It's funny.

Starting point is 00:01:14 I didn't mean to tell this story. I think I told you this in Miami with my son. And we go down, we visit my parents. They live in Florida. And I don't know what it is. But when we're in Florida, we sit down out on their back porch and we watch the robots on TV. And there's Kenny on the, and you and I have exchanged DMs and stuff here and there. And so we're watching this.

Starting point is 00:01:35 And my son's just obsessed with robots. And in fact, he's on a robotics team. And they just did really well. They placed in the nation. And they're just, you know, he's like all into anything robot related. So we're there. It's like he has an engineer for a dad. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:01:51 So we're there watching the battle bots on TV. And my dad has them like all recorded and stuff. And we're they watching it. And I haven't said anything. I haven't said that you and I talk or anything like that. Yeah. Well, my son brings something up and they're like teasing me and whatever. And I just had this urge.

Starting point is 00:02:10 to like flex in front of my son. I was like, well, Kenny Floreen right there on TV, I talk to him all the time. My son, I said, no, you don't. You don't talk. I, it's like, I do. I have conversations with him right there, that guy on TV. And my son was like, and my parents looked over and me like, no, you don't. You don't talk to Kenney.

Starting point is 00:02:31 I was like, I do. I talk to Kenny, not all the time, but here and there. And it was the funniest moment. Like, they were all, none of them, even after I said this, And they're like, there's no way you talk to Kenny. Anyway, sorry to embarrass you right off the top. That's cool, man. It was so funny.

Starting point is 00:02:45 It was the funniest thing ever. Anyway, I wanted to title this conversation, proof of work. Because when I look at what you've accomplished, it's kind of mind-blowing from just not proof of work, but proof of pain, right? When I'm looking at this, not too many people want to do the work, the physical work that's associated with this. But then it goes beyond that. And it's like there's this proof of pain of like, how in the world do you develop the mindset

Starting point is 00:03:17 to want to go through something that is so painful, physically painful? So like where does that come from in like early on in the early days of Kenny Florian? What developed this in you? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I definitely was one of those people that a lot of people said, And you don't look like a fighter. You don't have that kind of traditional background of a fighter. My father was a physician.

Starting point is 00:03:46 He was a thoracic and cardiovascular surgeon. So he was pretty disappointed when his college graduate son decided he wanted to become this martial artist. So at first it was just like, I want to do martial arts for my life or I'm going to see where this goes. And he was like, what, how are you going to make money doing that? Yeah, yeah. That's what kind of what was about in the beginning.

Starting point is 00:04:04 And I don't know. He actually was a martial artist. He was a black belt and judo even through medical school. And he kind of wanted us all to learn how to do martial arts. I did martial arts as a kid. I was more involved in soccer. I played soccer at Boston College. So I had done that for a very long time.

Starting point is 00:04:21 So you go from one of the wimpiest sports and one of the toughest sports, which is pretty funny. But yeah, so for whatever reason, anytime I did martial arts, it seemed like the world stuff. Like it seemed like it was this magical thing, this spiritual connection, even since a kid. It was just like, I could do that for hours. I would just focus and I don't know. There was something different about it, even like from soccer.

Starting point is 00:04:44 And of course, there's the individual component where everything is on you. So I don't know. There was this thing called the Ultimate Fighting Championship. And it was in the early days it was developed in 1993, as most people know. And it kind of developed into a sport. First, it was kind of this thing of let's see what the best martial art is. And let's find the best martial artists. from all different disciplines all over the world.

Starting point is 00:05:08 And let's have them fight and let's see what's going to work in a real fight. And time and time again, the answer was Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And this family called the Gracies had developed this system in Brazil, which was a modification of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, Japanese Judo. And they made it, I guess, more efficient or more effective for a real one-on-one fight. I had seen this. I was more involved in soccer at the time. I was at BC playing soccer and my brother had called me and told me to check this thing out.

Starting point is 00:05:40 And it was kind of everything that the kids talked about like, who would be the best fighter? Who's the best fighter? Is it the heavyweight champion of the world in boxing? Is it a wrestler? Yadda, yada. And we actually saw this play out in real time. It wasn't a movie. This was real.

Starting point is 00:05:55 And we saw what actually worked. And I remember my mind just being blown because I immediately assumed that the best fighter in the world would be this. big jacked up striker. This guy who would just knock people out left and right. And my brother had told me, hey, this Brazilian guy won. I said, well, was he jacked? Was he just knocking guys out left and right? He's like, no, he kind of just like gets a hold of them, brings him to the ground and he gets him in these holds. And I was like, so disappointed. I was like, wait, what? What's going? And I remember seeing it and I kind of wasn't a big fan just because it was not in line with what I thought fighting was. Well, you had this Muay Thai background, right?

Starting point is 00:06:33 Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I came from striking. Yeah. So I was like, I did karate as a kid and all that. So I was like, of course, a karate guy is the most dangerous guy. The world, they can kill you with one strike. But that was kind of all theory or we were kind of looking at it from an incorrect perspective in my opinion. So seeing that was just mind-blowing thing for me. And I said, I want to reconnect with martial arts. Like, I want to do what that guy is doing. He was not a big guy. He was the smallest guy actually in the competition. He was winning. oftentimes without even throwing a strike. Yeah. He knows something. He's doing things that other people just aren't ready for. And that was fascinating to me. And I felt that getting in a real fight for the large part of my life was one of the scariest things ever.

Starting point is 00:07:19 And I had two choices, really. It was run away from it or run towards it. And I would have this dream that would haunt me over and over again like so many people I'm sure have had where you get in a fight, you're hitting someone and it does nothing. or you just have this fear where you just freeze up. And I hated that feeling. It was such a scary thing. And I said, I need to confront this.

Starting point is 00:07:39 What do I need to do to kind of understand this better? And that's what kind of started this whole journey, I guess. It's interesting because you're describing a free and open market to prove what's the best fighting style. Yes. And for decades, you had everybody basically marketing and branding that their style was the best, but nobody really wanted to go blow to blow in a free and open market cage to prove what is the best style. And of course, the best style isn't going to be just holistically one thing. It's going to be a hybrid of different things.

Starting point is 00:08:17 So, like, you have this background, Muay, Jiujitsu. Knowing what you know now, if you could go back and re-engineer a solid foundation and call it whatever style, and then sprinkle, call it 10% of this or 10% of that, what would that composition, what would that engineering look like of the perfect fighting style for somebody that would be just unstoppable? Yeah, that's a great question, man. I think what you find as you start to train in all these different arts

Starting point is 00:08:51 is that, yeah, you're right, there isn't just one answer. There isn't just one thing. However, I would say so many things in the world, It's like there's very few truths. But when you find those truths or those unchanging things that are real and true, they tend to replicate themselves almost everywhere. It's like they're spread out everywhere. So what are the truths of physics?

Starting point is 00:09:14 How do I maximize my body to be as effective as possible? And I would say you need to be able to follow those unchanging foundational skills of body position, whether it's how you position yourself to maximize your power from the floor. Everything that we generate as far as effectiveness happens from how we position our body, how we connect to another human being, how we position ourselves to add not only like layers of defense, but also add some type of positional advantage, whether it's a particular angle, whether it's how we get that person to carry our weight, where they're now bearing the burden of our, weight and we get to kind of relax a little bit, how we manage our energy and how we execute

Starting point is 00:10:03 certain things, how efficient we are over time. And then if we're looking at at a large scale, like long term, what's the viability of that style? Are you creating a style that is successful for this fight? Are you creating a style that is successful long term? And also like your perspective of, you can't think of it like, okay, here I have all this offensive power, but now I'm just going to implement that and I'm going to go kill that guy. And you're like, like, well, that's not how it works. First, how do you not get killed? Like, well, what's the defensive part? So I can't kill you if I'm very vulnerable. So like what kind of defensive capabilities do you have? What do you understand? And then how do you implement that? And of course,

Starting point is 00:10:42 what makes it so fascinating is that there are so many different styles and approaches to this. And it's based on your background, how you see it. I'm not sure I answered your question specifically, but yeah. This is why I got a giant smirk on my face is because when you get around somebody who's the best in the world at something. The response that you gave was, well, you haven't defined the environment and you haven't defined the other person that I'm going against because depending on how you define those factors, I could give you a different answer depending on who that is and what that is. Totally. And I guess what you're really defining in such a unique way is we are constantly interacting with our environment. And it becomes part of us as we're

Starting point is 00:11:25 going through whatever that experience is. And without properly characterizing that, it's almost impossible to give an answer. So on this point, you are one of two people that have competed at four different weight classes. I'm kind of curious, like, what was that like to kind of take your body through these different weight classes? Did you have to prepare for different fighting styles as you progress through these different weight classes, or is it kind of the same tactics, if you will, between those weight classes? Yeah, so when I started in martial arts, my initial approach to it was, I don't know who I'm going to face.

Starting point is 00:12:06 So what kind of skills do I need to develop in order to defend myself against not just like one guy, but like multiple styles. I don't know what you're going to come at me with. Like, it's not, this isn't the set pattern of fighting of like, he punches, I block and then I return. You know, I don't know what you're going to do to me. What do I need to do to prepare for that? Okay, there's that.

Starting point is 00:12:27 And then there's the fact that I could fight someone who's 250 pounds. Like when I started this, I was like 150 pounds. So what do I need to know to deal with someone who is far larger than I am? Not that that would be ideal or welcoming, but maybe sometimes you don't have a choice in how you need to defend yourself or who is going to attack you. So I kind of ignorantly in some way said yes to like, yeah, oh, biting at 185 pounds. Sure, I will try that. And even in jiu jitsu competitions, I would kind of compete in a variety of weight classes. My brother was right around the same weight as me. So he would compete at his normal weight and I would always go up in weight so we

Starting point is 00:13:07 wouldn't have to face each other. So there are things like that. I guess approach the problem from a different way because it was scary. I understood. that was scary. I understood I was human. I can get knocked out. I can get submitted. And I think defense was like the most important thing for me and how I would approach that. It's like I need to be able to survive. Try not to get hurt. And then if I'm able to do something to you, cool. But first, don't get hurt. Do you think that the war of attrition approach, which is like extended out, have better endurance is kind of the, and again, this goes to, it depends on who you're fighting, obviously, but in general, do you find that kind of to be a better strategy or do you really

Starting point is 00:13:49 have to craft it to who you're going against? And it's not really. Yeah, there's no question about it. It's interesting because truth, what makes truth so interesting is that it's hidden. And the more you go into it, the more truths you find. And I think that like at first it was like, okay, well, I need to be technical. I need to be efficient. And then you go, well, sometimes they're technical and efficient too. Then if that's the case, then my conditioning needs to be superior or my strength needs to be superior or my tactics need to be superior. How I formulate strategies needs to be superior. So it just keeps going deeper and deeper, right? On that point, how much of this is psychological leading up to the fight that you're trying to make the person think that you're preparing for

Starting point is 00:14:34 endurance when you're actually preparing for something else just to kind of like get into the mental side of this. Yeah, I think there's definitely a component to that because I would stay very, very quiet about what I was doing and how I was doing it, because the more information that the enemy has on you, the more they can prepare for you. So training in silence was huge, not divulging certain information is huge. And even to the point of disinformation might even be beneficial of like, hey, I don't even know how I'm going to approach this guy. And like, I would always build up the opponent as much as possible. Like, this guy could do this and that and this.

Starting point is 00:15:12 And I would talk very rarely about my training. When I was fighting, I would very rarely show techniques to people, even people that I would train with. So it's like, there was a lot of psychological stuff going on just because if I show this to someone, they may know someone that I may fight one day and they're going to be aware of this. It was almost like a fanatical approach to some extent. But like you realize that information is king, right?

Starting point is 00:15:35 So the more that someone has that information, the more capable they become. and you realize you need to both chase it and also hide it. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. All right. I want you guys to imagine spending three days in Oslo at the height of the summer. You've got long days of daylight, incredible food, floating saunas on the Oslo Fjord, and every conversation you have is with people who are actually shaping the future. That's what the Oslo Freedom Forum is.

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Starting point is 00:19:54 So my freshman year at West Point, it was mandatory that we took boxing. And I'd never been punched in the face before, like ever in my I've never been in a fight, a real fight. Yeah. And, you know, so you get in the ring and they set it up by weight class. And I did well. I did, I had three fights total. I won all three fights.

Starting point is 00:20:15 But there was many times I got punched right in the face. And the first time that this happens to you, it is, it's not pleasant. It's terrible. Yeah. And I just remember like the first time, I mean, I really got punched in the face. And it was like, you just kind of lose all. sense of like where you're at. You're like, oh my God, what just happened? And you're like discombobulated. And for you, and after those three fights were over, I walked away with this sense of I was really

Starting point is 00:20:43 glad I went through that and that I experienced it. But I was happy that it was over and I didn't have to do it again. And so going back to this idea of proof, not just proof of work to be the best and be there physically just annihilating your body, but the proof of pain of saying, all right, I did my three fights, but I want to go do another 10. What in the world drove you to keep at this to become the best in something that you know you're going to not. I guarantee the punch in the face that I got was probably make you laugh. So how do you deal with such blows and such punishment in wanting to come back for more?

Starting point is 00:21:24 It helped people understand that mindset. Yeah, well, Preston, I'm not sure it ever gets good. What you're able to do is manage it better over time. And I think that it certainly wasn't something that I fully understood, even after I had a few fights, because there's levels to it. There's one shot, and there's like a big shot, and then there's like several big shots in one round, and you still got another 10, 12 minutes to go or, you know, 20 minutes to go.

Starting point is 00:21:51 There's levels to it. And certainly other people understand that better than I do because they were in some crazy fights. I didn't really have a whole lot of razy fights. Thankfully, I tried not to engage in like a rockam-sockham robot-style fights because I'm not really built that way. Those aren't the strengths of me. Like, that's not a physical strength of mine in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:22:12 And if I had to, okay, be tough. But you have to understand that I think your heart, your determination, your mindset is like an insurance policy. If you lead with your toughness, then that may get you through a few fights. It may even get you through a few years of your career, but you only have one brain, you only have one body. And the beautiful thing about fighting or any type of kind of like kinetic style of combat is that it's a truth teller.

Starting point is 00:22:42 And you either say, I need to be tougher or I need to be better or I need to be both. And how do I need to do that? Because if like, let's say, I was like, oh, well, I've only been hit once and I'll be fine, And this is a style that I can utilize going forward. Well, maybe not. Maybe you haven't faced that higher level of striker or you haven't experienced certain other things or you haven't faced this other guy who has amassed a certain set of skills.

Starting point is 00:23:07 That's unlike anybody else. And yeah, it's interesting. It's like going, the further down you go down the rabbit hole, the further you realize you have to go to understand it more and more and more. And that mindset is a huge component, but it's also a huge component into how you execute. One of the most common things you hear people say, it's like, well, if I ever get to fight, I just get really angry, bro, and I'm going to go out there and I'll, you know, I turn red and I'll just kick that guy's ass. But the reality is, is that that may be helpful for a little bit, but it's not conducive to how you approach fighting. You actually want to be super calm. You want to be super composed. So you can actually access the skills that you've learned over time. I learned it the hard way. I remember I had a few fights leading up to the ultimate fighter when I was on that. show. And basically the ultimate fighter was a show where they put 16 guys in a house and everyone fought each other and you fought to see who would win a contract with the organization. I got to the

Starting point is 00:24:03 finals. I was the smallest least experienced guy. And somehow I got to the final. I was fighting at 185 pounds. Again, I was probably like 170 pounds and got to the final. And I absolutely choked in that final Preston. I was so overwhelmed with fear and pressure that I felt like a deer in the headlights when I was out there. And that was something that was like such a mindbender because I had never really experienced that level of fear before. But I started thinking about things that weren't important. I started thinking about the contract that was at play. I started thinking about the fact that my friends and family were watching. That was the largest crowd I had ever fought in front of before. And so I was thinking about all these other things instead of what was real, which was myself and

Starting point is 00:24:48 that person that was standing in front of me. And maybe I would have lost anyway, but my mindset and how I was thinking about it wasn't helpful for me to go out there and execute what I had trained for. And I realized that I needed to cultivate a completely different mindset. So I really started reading a lot after that experience. And it was that experience that really said, okay, I did this as kind of like, let's see what happens kind of thing. And it was that loss that really said, okay, I want to do this for real. I beat myself. And that was, that did not sit well with me.

Starting point is 00:25:22 So I really started doing a lot of reading on the ancient warriors of the past and special operations soldiers. Like, they're fighting for real, things that you've done. Like, it's life and death. I just go into a cage and I have a referee and there's rules and all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:25:36 And yeah, I can get hurt. Yes, you could potentially die. But it's a completely different thing. And so I figured if I can learn from them, I can maybe approach. some things in a better way.

Starting point is 00:25:48 I've never said this on the show. I really enjoy books about near-death experiences. One in particular, I think it was written by a guy, Raymond Moody, I think it's called Life After Life, thoroughly enjoyed the living heck out of this book, and I've read some others. I read that you had a near-death experience in Brazil. Yes. I'm curious whether you're willing to talk about what happened. And more importantly, did this impact you and, you and, you?

Starting point is 00:26:16 in the way that you just view life. How profound was that experience on just who Kenny Florean has become? Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I've had other experiences as well that has like deep into that understanding. And I guess it kind of comes down to time realizing that it is not guaranteed. You could lose your life tomorrow. And do you have to make the best of what you have? And I was in Brazil. I was on a training trip and I was on a place called Pedro de Gavia, which translates to Gavia Rock. It's a place in Rio de Janeiro. And we would like climb up it or run up it as a workout. And it's this beautiful place, those waterfalls, just a beautiful kind of like rainforest within Rio. And we had done our workout. We were kind of cooling off by the waterfall. We kind of went

Starting point is 00:27:05 underneath. It's this cold water. So it's like rush of energy. And we decided to descend down the mountain. Well, now we're soaking wet and there's like moss and grass and greenery kind of everywhere. And we kind of went off the path a little bit. And it was like pretty steep. And one of my friends had slipped and was kind of sliding down the mountain a little bit and like caught his balance. It was like, whoa. Like that was that was wild. And we all kind of laughed about it. And then it was my turn. I had slipped and I was sliding down a pretty steep incline or decline and all of a sudden I just felt air. So I'd actually slit off the mountain. And it was probably like, it was a decent drop, you know, 20, 25 feet. And I'd landed on a rock that was on top of a ledge.

Starting point is 00:27:50 It was like this rounded rock. And as I was falling, I had like your typical like near death experience where I saw like my whole life flash before my eyes. At the time. Yeah, it was like everything was in slow-mo. It was probably, you know, like, what, a one-second drop, but it was like I was falling for like maybe five minutes. I was seeing everything. And I remember feeling sad that I was going to die on a mountain of Brazil and my parents weren't even going to know about where I was, how it happened. And, you know, I was working a job. I was at a translation agency at the time, translating financial documents actually helping with that process. And I would translate prospectuses and like a little really boring stuff.

Starting point is 00:28:33 And that wasn't something that I was really that excited about back then. I had always wanted to find a way. My passion is martial arts. How do I do that full time? Yeah. And I remember being so sad about how I was too much of a whim or so afraid to break out of this mold that maybe this mold that maybe my parents put me in of like, hey, you're going to go to Boston College, then you're going to go to law school.

Starting point is 00:29:00 You're going to be a lawyer. You're going to do this thing because that's what I think you should do. And I was doing that. But that wasn't the life that I wanted to live at the time. And I remember just feeling so sad about that. I remember, you know. And this all happened in a second. This all happened in a second.

Starting point is 00:29:12 Like I was thinking about all of these things. And I like kind of slapped out. Like one of the first things you learn in martial arts is how to fall, which is interesting. And I had like kind of did this slap out somehow just naturally. And I truly believe that was one of the things that actually saved my life. because if I was just kind of let my body fall, let my head go back, my head would have landed first,

Starting point is 00:29:35 and I don't know what would have happened. Not to mention, the ledge wasn't very big. It was about just big enough for my body to land on it. And if I didn't land on that ledge, I would have fallen like hundreds of feet, and then it would have been really bad. Wow.

Starting point is 00:29:50 And yeah, like, I remember my, I heard one of my friends crying because they couldn't see where I landed. They were freaking out. And I landed, I remember the first thing I did, like there's two things you could have done. It was either cry or laugh. I started laughing. And they could hear me laughing. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm alive. Like, I'm alive in it. The wind was knocked out of me. And as soon as like I took a couple breaths, I started laughing. And they kind of had to like help me up the mountain. They had to like give me a hand to kind of climb back up off of like this kind of cliff. And we were all just kind of silent going down that mountain after. We went back on the path and everyone was just didn't say anything. And I remember just thank you. about my life and I'm going, my gosh, like, that could have been the end of it. And I was doing

Starting point is 00:30:32 this thing that I didn't really enjoy. And I went back to Boston. I talked to my boss that week when I got back and I told them I was going to move to part time. I was going to translate stuff part time and the rest of my time would be spent doing martial arts. Now, there's not a whole lot of money in martial arts. I would teach private lessons, yes, and I would like teach group classes and things like that. But all I was doing was just like training day in and day out. And that eventually led into MMA, which I didn't expect either. But yeah, that's kind of that story. So this next question I got for you is it's going to be a little bit weird, but I think anybody who knows you is going to agree with what I'm about to say. I think one of the reasons why you are so different

Starting point is 00:31:13 in the MMA space and the fighting space is because you're very likable. And it comes through just very naturally, through your body language, that you're a very happy person and that you are somebody that's just fun and you have a fun time with what you're doing. And I think in that industry, the guys that have really made it to the championship type fights like yourself, it's almost like they have a chip on their shoulder or they're very angry and they're kind of harnessing that that maybe darker energy into their fighting style and what they're doing. And you are a standout in the opposite direction of that, in my humble opinion. How are you able to fight in such a savage kind away, but at the same time, just be a very happy and charismatic type person.

Starting point is 00:32:03 Yeah, no, thank you. I think that I'd be lying if I said, you didn't have to kind of connect with that a little bit or at the very least understand that. And I think it took me time to. I think I was too nice at a certain point and I need to go, hey, it's either them or me and I need to be ready for that level of mentality and fighting prowess. But at the same time, I think that's who I am. My dad is a very optimistic kind of funny guy, and I think I definitely got some of that from him. I also think it's important to not take

Starting point is 00:32:36 yourself so seriously. And I also think that I'm able to do things from more of a standpoint of passion and love than I am for, I love fighting. I love learning. I love evolving and I love developing skills at a high level. I think that that's always been my motivation. And there's some regrets in that I didn't start this to become a world champion. I started this because I saw a vulnerability in myself and something that I needed to face to become stronger internally. And I guess passion and love are the things that I've tried to kind of lead with. I don't come from a broken home. I didn't have a whole lot of adversity growing up as a kid in that regard. So I don't know. I don't really have much to be angry about, you know. So that was an advantage in some ways, perhaps a disadvantage in

Starting point is 00:33:24 other ways. I don't think so. You know, I think that it's what really fueled me to get better at this thing. Yeah. All right. Let's talk Bitcoin. So proof of work, you know, everything we've talked about is just enormous amounts of proof of work. So for me, when I'm looking at you and you're a Bitcoiner, I'm saying that makes sense. It just seems like there's this pool for people that have conducted an enormous amount of proof of work. and they want to store that work and energy that they've performed into something that will be sustained into the future. But what's your Bitcoin story? Like, how did you come across this and why did it resonate with you?

Starting point is 00:34:00 I'm assuming it's from all this past proof of work that you've done. But what would you say? I think that I came to understand that a little bit later. I think someone told me about Bitcoin when it was like, well, I remember the price. It was $72. And they had told me about this thing called Bitcoin. And like so many things, the way that is presented to you, is super important. It was more presented as like, hey, there's this thing and it can grow into

Starting point is 00:34:23 something bigger. You know, I think you would enjoy it. I think you should invest in it. And so that's about all it was. And eventually it was more like, here's Crypto Kenny kind of trying to make money off stuff. And then as I started understanding more about Bitcoin, that was just all Bitcoin. So by like 2007, I think it started like that journey in 2016. I had delayed on that $72 purchase, which of course, everyone has that story of, I wish I invested earlier. But so it wasn't until later that I actually made that investment into Bitcoin. And then I was all in on Bitcoin by like 2017. Yeah. And really was learning a lot about it and understanding that, wow, yeah, this really is a lot about proof of work and a lot of the, I guess, ideals that I appreciate and

Starting point is 00:35:13 passionate about. Bitcoin changes you over time as well. And it allows you to understand it on a deeper level. And you start to connect with those things, you know, naturally be that thing, just like martial arts or carrying a sword like the samurai. You actually kind of want to be that ideal. You actually want to be that thing that you are following. And so yeah, it's very similar, right, because of the fact that combat is a truth teller. And there is no faking it. I can't pretend to be good at fighting, go out there and fight, and it not be revealed at some point. We go find out and see who the better fighter is, and we're going to see where the weaknesses lie or not. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. No, it's not your imagination.

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Starting point is 00:39:13 All right. Back to the show. How about other top tier athletes that you come in contact with? It seems like, you know, I just look at people that follow me on Twitter and some of the interactions that I've had through the years that there's a lot of top tier athletes that just get it like right out of the gate. Yeah. I'm curious, like your thoughts on that and maybe what?

Starting point is 00:39:34 you're seeing today with respect to top-tier talents, how they're looking at Bitcoin or anything else these days. I think athletes can be a great representation of it just because we see an athlete perform on game day or on fight night. And we tend to kind of see it in terms of that performance or that day. And we forget very often that this is years in the making. Like, this is years in the making. And a lot of times, like, we like to say that luck doesn't play a part in fighting, but it can. And I think fighting in particular, I'll talk about that, it humbles you because you realize you can get your butt kicked and you have got your butt kicked just to make it to where you're at. Not everybody is humble, but they've been humbled at some point in their journey. And I think that when you think about all the years that I fought or all the years that these athletes trained where they probably made zero dollars.

Starting point is 00:40:28 In fact, they've actually lost money and now they have this short time frame of actually making. money, well, you better believe they want to hold on to that as much as possible. In fact, they actually want to see that grow. They don't want to see that robbed from them. I talk to this, I talk about this with one of the guys that I helped train. I said, like, how do you think, when I was talking about Bitcoin, I said, how do you think you would feel if the six days that you put into your training six days a week, if I took just one day away from you or two days away from you a week, and if you look at that in the course of like a year, that is a lot of training that I just robbed from you. That is, you know, two years, three years, right? We start to, like, has that compounding effect

Starting point is 00:41:07 and that exponent that really starts to harm you. And everybody should be thinking about in those terms, but, like, that's not cool and that's not right. And when you think that that's what's happening to our money, it could be a depressing thing and a disheartening thing. And Bitcoin is that thing that allows us to now protect that energy, that time that we value so much. What advice would you give someone who is maybe new to Bitcoin and maybe intimidated by the complexities or the volatility? What would you say to that person? Yeah, that's a tricky one. I think there's no easy answer because I don't think it can be communicated. It can. Words play a definite factor in it, but it's like anything else. When I'm teaching jiu-jitsu and I'm telling

Starting point is 00:41:55 my students or whoever to do a certain thing, maybe they take it. And then, they run with it. But the only way that they're going to find truth in that is by experiencing it. And I kind of tripped on Bitcoin in a way. And the first thing I did was buy it. I didn't. And this is probably ignorant to a certain extent. But I went and just bought it. It wasn't a ton. But I bought some. And it's like, okay, I'm seeing that it's actually growing. This is interesting. Okay. I'm seeing this thing grow before my very eyes. I'm learning about it again and again. I'm seeing how I'm able to retain it. I'm seeing how it can't be stolen for me.

Starting point is 00:42:33 So that experience of that thing in combination with explanations such as yourself or the awesome guests that you had on your show, then there's like more connections start to take place. Yes, there are certain things that I could say to help you understand it better, but at the same time or make that leap to buy it. But I also think that like just buying it is equally as important because you need to kind of experienced that thing and see it for your very eyes. I can totally empathize with what you're saying. So I found out about it in 2015 and really kind of dived in, just started reading as many

Starting point is 00:43:10 books as I could, watching as many interviews as I could. I remember my first buy. It was like $220. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to buy this and just kind of see what happens. Well, yeah. Kenny, it was like a week. And it was already over 300. And I was just like, similar to my experience. It's like, I mean, for somebody who has been watching, you know, traditional markets and used to the volatility in like traditional markets, I was like, oh my God, what in the world is this that I own? And it was like my desire to learn more just like went straight through the roof of like, what is, what in the hell is this? Exactly same thing. It was like, I remember looking at it one way or buying it one week and the next week, I'm like, oh my God, wait, what? What?

Starting point is 00:43:54 How did this just happen? Yeah. And then being like, oh, well, this is interesting. Okay, I'm going to buy some more. And yeah, I think that it's a very powerful thing, that connection. And the words start to mean more to you over time. And then it also encourages you to learn a lot more. If we're being honest, you can have the best explanation of Bitcoin ever. But if I'm seeing that someone else can go and hack the network, the price is going down for years upon years, guess what? I'm not going to buy any more Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is doing the world.

Starting point is 00:44:25 just by proving itself, right? Proof of work in that regard. It's showing you the functionality of it. And people just kind of aren't really opening their eyes as much because it is very different from what we've known. And I think that's a big thing. But it's going to take time. And a lot of times we need examples for that proof or for that evidence to kind of come

Starting point is 00:44:45 forward and go, oh, you know what? Let me try that too. We have a lot of founders and entrepreneurs that listen to the show. And what you see a lot in business is people that are developing a business plan. It's not perfect. There may be at 80% of like what they want to do, but they're perfectionists. And they want it to be 100% before they start doing anything. And what you're getting at with what you're saying there is you just have to start getting your hands dirty.

Starting point is 00:45:12 You got to get in the ring and you have to start grappling with somebody before you can actually take the book knowledge that you learned about. Okay, so now you put your hand here and this person does this and then they turn. And it's like, you can study that in your head all day long, but until you get on the mat and you start actually conducting some type of action and you involve yourself in it, you're never going to get any type of feedback mechanism as to what works, what doesn't work, etc. There's no question about that. My dad would talk about that all the time. He's from Peru. Both my parents are from Peru and he has this strong accent. English is not his first language.

Starting point is 00:45:49 And he would say, you know, I would see all these Harvard professors explaining how surgery works and this and that. And then he's like, the chest would be open in front of them and they'd be like, I don't really know. You know, it's one thing to say. It's another thing to do. And it's the doing that makes us who we are. And I think that that process is super important. Yeah. I love that. Let's quickly talk about battlebots. So, I mean, because this is just so for your expertise and everything you were doing. I mean, it is kind of out there in a little bit of left field, but you do this show so well. It is so funny watching. I'm sorry, I should have had this in my notes.

Starting point is 00:46:29 You're the guy that co-hosts it with you. Chris Rose. He's hilarious. I mean, he's like practically a comedian. He's hilarious. But you guys gel so well on this show. And it's really kind of become like a cult classic amongst people that nerds. And so here you are on one side of the fence dealing with the most.

Starting point is 00:46:49 savage people on planet Earth, right? And the audience and the people that are attracted to the fighting are very savage. And then on the other side, you have like turbo nerds like my son and myself that are sitting over here watching this battle bot. So how did you get asked to do this? And what's your thoughts on it? Like looking back at all these years of doing this show. Gosh, yeah, it's interesting. First of all, I guess I always like surprising people. I've always kind of liked to have been the underdog or have people define me in certain ways and be like, no, you don't know who I am. But I guess it was just kind of presented to me. Like so many things in my life, like I wish I could say that I had this very specific plan and I'm going to do

Starting point is 00:47:34 this and it's going to lead to this and lead to that. It's just kind of like I've always kind of put my head down, done things, and then all of a sudden someone calls me and offers me an opportunity. And that's kind of how that happened. I was on vacation with my wife up in NorCal and I got this phone call and someone was talking to me about this show called Battlebots that they're going to do a reboot of. And back then, it was actually going to be on ABC, which was kind of an intimidating thing in it of itself. And they're like, hey, we're super late in the process. We probably have our guy, but would you want to come in for an interview? And I was like, well, I'm out of town right now. I'm actually on my way back to L.A. I'm driving back now. I was living there at the time.

Starting point is 00:48:12 They're like, perfect. You know, can you come in tomorrow at 10 a.m.? And I was like, okay, Sure. So in my mind, I was like, this isn't going to happen like me, engineering. I know nothing about this stuff. Like, this is fighting. That was your edge. That was your edge, actually. Yes, it was. Maybe. And they said, listen, we're either going to go two routes. We either going to go with someone who has an engineering background or has done this or we're going to go with someone who has like a fighting background and like present this as a fight. Yeah. So I was like, okay, well, let's see what happens. And I do this interview and immediately they're like, well, if you were to accept this job, you'd have to start studying in like next week or like tomorrow. I was like, okay, yeah, I'm willing to do that.

Starting point is 00:48:50 I'm a little intimidated because it's going to be on ABC. This is a whole different. Yeah, yeah. Wallowax and huge audience and I know nothing about this. They carried this folder that was like this high to my place at the time. And it was like, oh my gosh, I have hundreds and hundreds of pages about the rules, the robots, what it does, the teams, the names. And I had to consume all of this in like two weeks time. Wow. And yeah. So I mean, it was crazy. That was the start of it. I got the job based on that one interview. And yeah, and thankfully, I jelled really well with Chris Rose. And it's been such an interesting journey. And now we're looking to see what network we're going to go to next. So we're waiting on that. And yeah, so I can't wait. I can't wait for you and your son to come to a live event,

Starting point is 00:49:39 man. Oh, we're coming. We are coming. Yeah. So I'm still working on now. We are coming. Do you think that your positive energy and your thankfulness for what you've had in your life are the reason why the universe finds a way to present you with opportunities like this? Or what would you say is why you get presented with things like this? Yeah, I may not communicate all the time that I believe in this force, but like I do think that my belief in God, like, trust in what I'm doing, who I am, I'm having a positive outlook on things. That's always served me well. Not always. Sometimes, you know, people overlook it and see it as weakness in some cases. But I think that as I've gotten older, I've seen it as such an edge. And people

Starting point is 00:50:26 have told me this all the time. Like, people want to help you for some reason, Kenny. I don't know what it is if people always want to help you. And I don't know. I guess I try to be as real and authentic as I can. And I have fun with things. I love doing new ventures. And I've kind of always had this adventurous spirit and I think optimism has been one of the edges in my life that has helped me tremendously. Yeah. Well, before I did this interview, I went to my son. I said, hey, guess who I'm talking to? I'm talking with Kenny.

Starting point is 00:50:55 And I said, what's your one? And I didn't even finish the question. What do you want to ask Kenny? And he goes, when's the next season? When's the next show? I am waiting for that myself, super excited to hopefully get something going soon and we're just waiting for the business side of things, business side of television to play itself out. Is it looking hopeful?

Starting point is 00:51:21 I think so. I hope so. You know, it's so weird. Like, things that get approved or not approved in television, like there's no rhyme or reason for why it happens. And a lot of times it's just economics or how they see it and how better, you know. So we'll see. I think there's a couple of good options out there for us.

Starting point is 00:51:38 hope that they're able to strike a deal and we can get on the road and get this battlebot show going again. They do have a live show going in Vegas now, which is different. I'm not involved with that at all. It's kind of like a thing. If you are in Vegas, you can go and check out a live show. They have a bunch of robots ready to go and they just kind of battle for whatever it is that show length is, but it's different than the actual season where they're actually competing to see who the best team is or who the best robot is. There's been a lot of seasons, right? Like eight to nine or something? Eight seasons. Eight seasons? Yeah. So I think it's such a positive, cool thing for kids, especially, like in an environment where we see so many negative things, this is awesome for kids to really, again, get their hands dirty, be involved with it, or at the very least, be entertained by something that is fun and positive and helpful.

Starting point is 00:52:27 And it's cool because I do believe to a certain extent that engineers are kind of born, not just developed in some ways. It's like kids, they just have a, I don't know, they have a certain passion for it. And I guess especially amongst men in general, we like staying busy, we like doing things their hands, we like to work. And we like to destroy things. And we like to destroy things. This question is not fair. And this is my very last question.

Starting point is 00:52:52 This question is not fair, especially in the face of a previous question that I asked you and you were basically like, well, it depends on the environment. And it depends on the person that you're going against. Yes. You can only pick one robot no matter. And I'm not going to tell you who it's going against her. The setting is the setting from season eight. What is the one robot that you pick as just dominating everybody else?

Starting point is 00:53:20 Gosh, that is a tricky one. What's the first one that popped into your head? End game was the first one. That's your implicit bias. Okay. Yeah. Just because it durability plays such an important part in fighting. and it's proven itself to be very durable.

Starting point is 00:53:35 It also, like, offensively, it's extremely powerful. So, you know, it has knockout ability and fight-stopping ability. And they're just amazing drivers as well. So they're kind of a complete package and they know how to evolve with each and every fight. So that's what I'm leaning towards. That's a tough one. That's going to create drama. That question is going to create drama.

Starting point is 00:53:55 Yeah, it sure is. Kenny, this was such a pleasure, such an honor to have you. I really appreciate your friendship through the years. and what a fun interview for me personally. I'm sorry for the audience. They wanted us to talk more Bitcoin, but there's a lot of questions I wanted to ask you personally. Yes.

Starting point is 00:54:11 And I really appreciate your time coming on. It was a real pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on. Again, I've been a big fan for a long time. And hopefully we'll get a chance to watch Battlebots together. Yes, sir. Yes, we want to do that. All right.

Starting point is 00:54:24 Thank you, Kenny. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to follow Bitcoin Fundamentals on your favorite podcast. app and never miss out on episodes. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to Theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only, before making any decision consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by the Investors Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.

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