We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - BTC195: Making THE Bitcoin Movie w/ Kelly and Brian Estes (Bitcoin Podcast)

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to TIP. Hey, everyone, welcome to this Wednesday's release of the Bitcoin Fundamentals podcast. On today's show, I have two incredible people, Miss Kelly and Brian Estes, who are the filmmakers of God bless Bitcoin. Now, I don't know about you, but one of the hardest tasks I have when talking to a new person about Bitcoin is where to start and how to compress so much information into a digestible conversation that's fit for the person that I'm talking to. Well, during today's show, we talk about this massive challenge in how Kelly,

Starting point is 00:00:30 and Brian not only took on this challenge, but executed on that mission with resounding reviews and unprecedented feedback. And this is just such an interesting and fun conversation. And I'm super excited to bring this one to you guys. So without further delay, here's my chat with Kelly and Brian. Celebrating 10 years. You are listening to Bitcoin Fundamentals by the Investors Podcast Network. Now for your host, Preston Pish. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. I am here with Kelly. And Brian Estes, the creators, the movie makers of God bless Bitcoin. Guys, welcome to the show.

Starting point is 00:01:18 Thanks, Preston. Thanks, Preston. Good to be here with you. I am super pumped to cover this. And, you know, there's this rule for YouTubers and Twitter or whatever, social media. And the rule goes like this. Don't ever, ever read the comments. Because as soon as you read the comments, like you're just going to, you know,

Starting point is 00:01:38 because it's like 50% of the people are saying, oh, this is the worst thing. ever and the other 50% are telling you it's the best thing ever. And in your case, this rule doesn't apply because I've gone to YouTube. In less than a week, you have, just on one channel alone, you have over 200,000 downloads on this movie in less than a week, which is gangbusters. And I can't even imagine all the other channels, but the thing that has blown my mind, okay, this is not normal. You need a little like button and the thumbs down button. 10,000 thumbs-ups on this movie and zero. I don't even know that this is possible.

Starting point is 00:02:13 Zero thumbs down on a movie after 200,000 plus people have watched this. This is crazy. It's crazy. Let me read some of these comments because I was the first thing I did as I go and I read the comments because I'm just curious how it's being received by the community and anybody that's watched it. And I swear to God, I can't even find a negative comment in this section. This is YouTube we're talking about.

Starting point is 00:02:37 Anybody that goes to YouTube knows that this isn't normal. I just want to read some of these quotes from people in the comments for people to kind of understand how profound this movie is and how good this movie is. Here you go. Thank you for this beautiful documentary. I can now show it to my family so that they can learn about Bitcoin. Another person, fix the money, fix the world. Here, this person wrote, amazing, amazing, this should really get an Oscar. If anybody actually understood the importance of the message, thank you so much for creating this masterpiece. And it just keeps going. All the comments. And if people don't believe me, they can go to YouTube and just scroll through the comments.

Starting point is 00:03:11 You're not going to believe the comments on this movie. So, were you guys nervous? Did you think that this was going to be how it was received? Were you right before the release date, were you having night terrors as to like how it was going to be received? Talk to me about your anticipation of the release. I think more along when we were making it and we were making the decisions about what to include, what not to include, how to drive the storyline.

Starting point is 00:03:35 there'd be times when we'd be done at the end of the day of their work and we were like, okay, this is either going to be a hit or it's going to be the biggest bomb you've ever seen. What in the world are we doing? I cannot tell you how many times we said, what are we doing? But then about the end, when we got it, where we wanted it, we realized that, and really, I should let Brian talk to this part of it, but it was the story that was in his head and in his heart. It was what he wanted to tell. I just helped him tell it.

Starting point is 00:04:04 That was my role in this process. And he was happy with it. So to me, it really didn't matter what people said. He did what he wanted. You know, he did what he, where his conscience led him. And so to me, that's always a good sign that you did a good job. And I'm humbled that people have given it such a great reception. And I'm glad it helped people because that was the goal.

Starting point is 00:04:25 Yeah. It's not really the positive reviews. It's the idea that, wow, this helped me. And that was really what we wanted to do was make an education. film to help people. So I'll let Brian speak to the other part of that. Yeah. You know, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:04:40 I read the book, thank God for Bitcoin four years ago. And, you know, which is the Christian view of money and morality in Bitcoin and how it fits in? And I just was curious on what the other religion said. And so I dove into those.

Starting point is 00:04:53 And, you know, after I finished satisfying my curiosity, I had this voice inside me. Like, you need to write a book or tell the story or make a movie. And I've never written a book. I'm terrible.

Starting point is 00:05:04 telling stories, never made a movie. And so I just kind of ignored it. And then the voice got getting louder and louder and louder. And finally, I went to Kelly. Kelly has her master's degree in writing. She's an education teacher. She knows how to tell a story. And I asked her like, and you help me get what's in here out. So, you know, I get quiet that voice. And so we hired an Emmy nominated filmmaker. And we started this path two years ago to tell the story that was in my head and my heart. and what's in the film is what was in there. So I answer your question, like, you don't even care about the reviews. I just wanted to shut the voice up.

Starting point is 00:05:41 That's why it's so good. That's why it's so good. Yeah. By the way, it's the worst student ever. Worst. Worst student. That hasn't changed. Yeah, he did not want to listen to me at all.

Starting point is 00:05:53 Oh, my God. Yeah, one of the comments to the point that you were talking about how you were incorporating other religious points of view in this. I read one comment. and I was trying to find it in preparation for the show, but there's so many comments on this movie. I wasn't able to find it again. The person had said, I am an atheist, and I absolutely loved this movie, which I thought was pretty incredible because you would think that they would have some type of spin or

Starting point is 00:06:17 some type of bias. And I think it's kudos to you guys to really kind of dig into all the world's religions, tie it back to what's being taught in all these different religions, tie back to fundamental principles of just being great human beings. and how that's tied to Bitcoin. And I think anybody that takes the time to sit down and watch this is going to kind of walk away with, oh, my God, like, this is really important. As an example, and I'm talking way too much here. I need to get it over to you guys back. I sent this off to my parents to watch. And after it was over, my dad wrote me, he's just like, wow, I finally

Starting point is 00:06:52 like really understand why you're so passionate about this. As if I hadn't been in his ear for for literally years, he watches your movie. It was almost like this moment for him to be like, I finally understand why my son is just like enamored by this Bitcoin thing. But yeah, let's start with the opening of the movie because I personally like how you started off the story with this Brady Bunch theme. So tell us why you started it this way and what the overarching theme of that really kind of has to do with Bitcoin and your message.

Starting point is 00:07:26 Yeah. So we want to do it back to 1970. when the Brady bunch was around. And that's when our money wasn't broken yet. So that was when the U.S. was on a gold standard. And what happened in 1971 was Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard. And so from that point forward over the last 53 years, our money hasn't been backed by anything.

Starting point is 00:07:46 And so that's called fiat. And fiat means by decree. And so the government says this money is worth a dollar because we say it's worth a dollar. But before that, our money was backed by gold and silver. And so we wanted to see, just show people, like, remember what life was like when we were on a gold standard. And you could have one spouse working, one spouse staying at home, raising six kids, have a maid and a dog, and, you know, off one salary. And if you compare that to today, you have both parents working and they could barely afford one kid.

Starting point is 00:08:21 And so, like, why is it so different in the last 53 years? And if you trace it back, it all goes back to what happened in 1971. So that's how we wanted to start the movie. If you weren't around back then or you don't remember that, it's just a little refresher. This is what life used to be like. You don't even think about how absurd that is today with, you know, that many kids, the dad's the only one working, right? You have made and like all of these things was plausible, plausible back then. Now it's just like so absurd.

Starting point is 00:08:53 Well, it was normal. It was normal. If you look pre-1971, the average woman in the United States had six babies. Today, it's less than two. Yeah. It's really changed. And the reason, you know, they're not having as many kids is they can't afford it. And one of the reasons.

Starting point is 00:09:08 One of the reasons. Yeah. It's crazy that people don't look to money being the source of it. They just, I think a lot of them are just pointing at, you know, it's politics or this policy led to this. But it's almost like, yeah, I'm sure the money's broke. But that's not like the fundamental issue. And so trying to tell that story, Kelly, I'm curious when you were working with Brian, trying to extract all these ideas out of his head.

Starting point is 00:09:33 What did that process look like early on? Like, how did you guys go through that? And, you know, the trials and tribulations, I guess. Okay. So I treated him like I do any of my students who are wanting to write a personal narrative, which is telling their story. And so I said, just give me everything you think you might want to say. everything that you think we need to include in here.

Starting point is 00:09:55 And then let me see if I can't find a thread to pull through the narrative to unite each part. And so never ask somebody who has been studying something for 10 years, include everything they know because it was ridiculous. It was relentless. But it was all over the place too. Because, you know, talk about mining. You could talk about FUD. You could talk about regulation.

Starting point is 00:10:20 There are so many topics. And so I said, Brian, at some point, we're going to have to cut some things out and figure out what path we're going to take the reader on. Look, there it is. That's my little mistake there, the reader. I'm so used to saying, grab your reader by the hand and take them through your story. But here, you have to grab the viewer by the hand and guide them down your thought process path. And so that was really hard for him. And I'm not bragging about him.

Starting point is 00:10:49 I'm just stating a fact about him. He knows so much, just inordinate, lots of information about this because, honestly, he's a little obsessed. Well, yeah, we're all psychopaths. Yeah, he's obsessed. And for entertainment, he listens to podcasts. He reads. He learns about every facet of Bitcoin and blockchain that he can.

Starting point is 00:11:13 So it was taught to narrow it down to the most important parts. I'm curious of those themes. I'm curious what Brian's favorite theme in the movie is, and then I'm curious what your favorite theme is. You know, it would be fun, Preston, if he, I tell you what his favorite one is. Oh, yes, I like this. Let's see how, let's see how accurate you are. A little newlywed game.

Starting point is 00:11:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Long time, married day. Okay. So, Brian, I'm going to guess that your favorite part in the whole movie is the anti-war. That's right. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:11:47 And Brian, what? What do you think hers is? Kelly's favorite is when Natalie talks about millennials and how they've been basically rug pulled because the financial system has really not treated them very well. I think that's probably the most impactful part. You better tell the truth. Is you right? Yep.

Starting point is 00:12:07 100%. It gets me. All right. You guys know each other. Look at you too. I love it. Every time I watch that, I just, I get a little. teary. It slays me. It just like, it was a gut punch to hear Natalie explain how millennials feel

Starting point is 00:12:26 about the financial system that they've inherited. You know, millennials get a bad rap. People are always sort of bad-mouthing them and saying whatever they want to say, but people don't never stop to think that they are the first generation that will not be better off than the one before them and how that drives emotion, which drives decisions. And when she said that, it just made me reevaluate any thoughts I've ever had about how people make choices in their lives for experience because they need to have experiences because their money doesn't allow them to purchase things. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:06 Right. So, of course, they might travel more. They can't afford a house. Yeah. There's like barely any type of net that they're making because of the system. Yeah, and then they can't store it. And even if they could, it'd be such a pittance that it just doesn't really make a difference. And, yeah, it puts this dynamic that's so easy because you jumped 20 years of a generation in front of them.

Starting point is 00:13:26 And it was just a totally different setup for them. And so they're looking at this younger generation. And you guys do such an amazing job telling the story. And by the way, Natalie crushed this. Right? She crushed this. Amen to that. She was awesome.

Starting point is 00:13:41 I can't thank her enough for. helping us. Yeah, our filmmaker was pushing us to have someone that was like a movie star being the narrator. And we kept pushing. And they're like, we want Natalie. We want Natalie. And finally, we just called Natalie up and said, hey, are you available to these dates? Let's get in here and record. Yeah. And we just got to, you know, made the decision. So my favorite part was Natalie is Alice in the middle of the Brady Bunch opening. Oh, yeah. Did you want that? I know. That was Brian's idea. It was great. He wanted it. It was fun. Well, the funny thing for me is just you guys know Natalie. I know Natalie. She's just so authentic, right? She's just such an authentic person. And a lot of

Starting point is 00:14:20 people watch her show and they feel like they know her. I can tell you folks. Natalie in person and who she is behind the scenes is exactly who you think she is in real life. She is just so authentic and just she's searching for the truth like all the rest of us, right? It's just, yeah, I don't know. I was really happy to see her, you know, narrating the movie and she just did a phenomenal job. We were super happy to have her. We were glad she said yes. I know. She was a get. She was a big get for us. So we were thrilled. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. All right. I want you guys to imagine spending three days in Oslo at the height of the summer.

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Starting point is 00:18:57 Back to the show. Brian, let's talk about the war piece. That was your favorite part. I obviously have a huge bias on this one as well. But from your point of view, why was this your favorite part to kind of discuss in the movie? Yeah. So just to give people a little history, over the last 50 years, we've had this endless stream of wars, right? And the way it used to be is that a government would fund war through its gold reserves.

Starting point is 00:19:22 Like they would pay for their soldiers and their armies and their Air Force through, you know, their treasury, you know, inside the government. And if they ran out of money, they would borrow the money through war bonds from their citizens. And they don't do that anymore. So since we went off the gold standard in 1971, the government just prints the money to fund the war. And so now we have these endless wars that just lasts forever. And so my thought process is that if the world was on a Bitcoin standard and you can't print Bitcoin, that means if you want to have a war, you would have to go to your citizens and borrow their Bitcoin from them, and they're not going to lend the government their Bitcoin to go kill people.

Starting point is 00:20:04 And so all of a sudden, the governments can't afford war. And so that's the basic point of the movie is that, you know, being on Bitcoin standard actually will bring us peace and hope around the world and we will be able to defund the military industrial complex. And the reason that's important to me is both of our parents were military. Kelly's stepdad was a colonel in the army, her dad was, or Colonel, the Air Force. Her dad was in the Army. My dad was in the Air Force. We grew up, you know, in military bases around the world. Your viewers can't see this, but, you know, I've been in a wheelchair

Starting point is 00:20:40 for 40 years. I was in a car wreck when I was 16 and left my legs paralyzed. So I know what it's like to have to deal with a body that's not fully functional. And when I see our soldiers come back injured, paralyzed, missing arms or limbs or mutilated, it's like someone stabbing me in the heart when I see that. Because I know a lot of these wars are unnecessary. And the reason we had them is because we were able to print money. And so one of my primary purposes in life is to be an activist to get the governments off printing money, get on a Bitcoin standard, defund the wars and defund the military industrial

Starting point is 00:21:19 complex and save lives. And I think if we could do that, we could have a thousand years apiece. Oh, my God, I love this. As somebody that's served in combat. Yeah. I just, that's what we wanted to do in the movie. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Like, here's the funny part. I thought we had already interviewed you. And I was going through everything. I was, where's Preston's interview? And I like, well,

Starting point is 00:21:38 we never interviewed them. And I like, Peas was like, you need to get down to Florida. We need to interview right away. Or not have to come down and let us interview you. And, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:46 you told your story, which was very powerful in the movie. What people don't realize is I had about 20 takes and I probably two takes me. Oh. Oh. Oh. You did great. I'm not the best at the live stuff.

Starting point is 00:22:01 I'm not. You're pivotal in telling that story. You're retired 101st airborne Apache helicopter pilot. You saw firsthand what printing money does. Yeah. And you know what? Bobby was in this section of the movie as well. Bobby Kennedy was in this section.

Starting point is 00:22:17 And I was super impressed with his comments as well. And you talk about this deep state and you talk about, well, he talked about the deep state. And he's talking about this just perverted incitimate. incentive structure of printing and really masking how everything's being paid for. Because if you push the bill out five years into the future through this, I'm going to say slow, but I guess it's a pretty aggressive debasement process. And I think this is a key point. When the debasement's happening relative to all the other currencies, it almost feels like it's not happening because if they debased 10% in a year here in the United States, the euro gets stronger, the yen gets stronger, and then

Starting point is 00:22:53 they respond in kind, and then they debase their fiat. And so relative to the other currency, it appears to the populace like nothing's happening or like the money's not being the base because they're always comparing it to another Fiat and none of them are backed. And so I thought Bobby Kennedy did an amazing job talking about this along some of the other guests and it just really kind of shines this flashlight on this thing war that is just kind of lost on everybody. It's very frustrating for me personally. But sorry to keep going on. Kelly. Yeah. I think you'll like this. My daughter was, our daughter was watching with us as we were editing. It was the very last cut.

Starting point is 00:23:31 We had to send our final edits to our filmmaker. And she watched Kennedy talk about the repercussions of all the proxy wars that the United States is engaged in. And if you think about it, Samantha is a Gen Z. She hasn't known war in her lifetime other than what she saw very little. of us over, you know, after 9-11 in Afghanistan, but she's 25. She's too young to really remember that. And I looked over at her. She was sitting on my left. And she was riveted to what he was saying. And you could just see the wheels turning. And then she looks over at me and she has her eyes are watering. And she was like, oh my God, mom. I said, right. The things that we are seeing

Starting point is 00:24:21 today, you can trace it all the way back. And that happens with all these wars. And I think she really understood what he was saying and what that means for our role as the United States and some of these wars in other countries and how printing money allows for those kinds of events to happen. So it was good for me to see that because I think a lot of Gen C and Younger don't know what really is like. That was the comment my dad said to me when.

Starting point is 00:24:51 he wrote me after watching it was just like, wow, I finally see why the war piece is so important to you and how it's being funded. Like it just is so clear to me now after seeing, and this is another thing, guys, the visuals and the graphics that go with the movie help illustrate it so well. Because I mean, we can sit here and have a conversation. Maybe somebody's driving the work and they're hearing us talk about it. But when you're hearing a narrative, you're hearing an interview and you're having these graphics that are helping illustrate what you're talking about, It's just so much more profound. And I, just from my personal experience with my family, I've been talking to them about this

Starting point is 00:25:27 stuff for years. And it was kind of like it just finally clicked because they were able to see it and hear it from a different lens or point of view. So kudos. Yeah, we did 2D graphics, 3D animation graphics. I mean, we wanted to make it visually pleasing to people to help tell the story. Yeah. I couldn't imagine the pain of managing all that, by the way.

Starting point is 00:25:48 It was a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. It's over. It's over. You guys are, yeah, you guys are in your hands. Yes. Hey, you've had some heavy hitters in this movie. You have people like Tony Hawk, Mark Cuban, Peter Diamandis.

Starting point is 00:26:03 I'm a huge fan of Peter Diamandis, by the way. Kathy Wood, I mean, the list goes on and on of people that are interviewed in this movie, Michael Saylor's in this movie. You have so many. Is there any interview that you personally really enjoyed or that you felt really kind of just laid things out in such an incredible way. And I know, and this is a little unfair because now you're picking and choosing. But is there anything that kind of stood out? Like when you were done recording, you were like, oh my gosh, that person just clobbered it. Yeah, I think you're fishing for a

Starting point is 00:26:32 compliment, buddy. No, get the heck out of here. No, no, no. Oh, yeah, after your interview, I was just like, I always started crying. Get that heck out of you. I did. I was like, that's exactly the story that needed to be in our movie. Like, so for me, it was interviewing you. You can't pick me. There's no way. I don't buy it. 100%. So what about you?

Starting point is 00:26:55 In Holman Perry. I think for me, it was Rabbi Lapin, because he was describing, we were talking about how the Bible, and for in his case, the Torah, really explains or illustrates how we are to treat each other when it comes to money and what money is supposed to be used for in what way. And he was talking about within the Jewish faith that they look at money as a way of rewarding the talents that God has given to you. And then within that community, say there's a Jewish community. For example, you might have a roofer and you might have a doctor.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Well, the doctor was at home with his family and his roof is leaking and his wife is yelling at him and he calls the roofer over, the roofer fixes it. doctor's like, oh my gosh, thank you. I could never have done that. I so appreciate you. How many appreciation tokens will that be? And instead of calling money dollars or whatever, appreciation tokens. And really that if you would start looking at money that way, and you would see that you would never cheat somebody that way. You would never try to steal from them. You would never try to tip the scale in your favor because you would be ignoring the person that God created them to be. And I thought that was a really interesting and beautiful way to talk about how we are to treat each other when it comes to money.

Starting point is 00:28:21 You know, I was always taught that a roofer is no less than a neurosurgeon that we are all people with talents. And maybe that's why it resonated with me so much. But today, you know, we don't treat each other that way at all. So maybe if we could and maybe Bitcoin would allow that because it maintains its store of value. that we could get back to a more peaceful way to interact with each other. I love that. You also have a section in the movie that talks to the Islam side of this and how debt-based money is forbidden.

Starting point is 00:28:57 Is that the correct word? Can you talk to us a little bit about that interview that was in here? Yeah, so Harris-Ur-Refron did a great job. He's an Islamic expert over in London. So the way he explains it, it's called Ribba. So Ribba is what the Islamic community and faith calls. call lending money or receiving, like if you lend money or you receive interest, that's against the religion. You're not allowed to receive ribba or like pay interest or receive interest.

Starting point is 00:29:25 And so he talks about that in the movie. And so if you think about it, there are two billion Muslims in the world where our current financial system isn't compliant with their religion. And so gold is compliant with a religion because gold isn't pay interest or receive interest. And there was a Saudi Tleric that came out a few months ago, and we put this in the movie, that he came out with a, it's called a Fatwa, and it said that Bitcoin is Sharia-compliant money because it doesn't pay interest or receive interest. And so now all of a sudden you have two billion Muslims where Bitcoin is Sharia-compliant money in their religion.

Starting point is 00:30:04 And so we show that in the movie, and we build on top of that with some other stories. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. No, it's not your imagination, risk and regulation are ramping up, and customers now expect proof of security just to do business. That's why VANTA is a game changer. VANTA automates your compliance process and brings compliance, risk, and customer trust together on one AI-powered platform. So whether you're prepping for a SOC 2 or running an enterprise GRC program, VANTA keeps you

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Starting point is 00:33:32 Kelly, we're going to nerd out here on the tech for just a second. Something that I find so fascinating is when you look at the Lightning Network and you would take Bitcoin, let's say I have one Bitcoin, I want to plug it into a channel, and I want to basically be a liquidity provider for payments on Layer 2 Bitcoin. And I can collect fees or some people would call it yield or they would, you know, whatever term you want to put on that, I'm earning Bitcoin by routing the one Bitcoin that I have by loading it into a channel and allowing layer two to route it. The whole time, I'm never lending that Bitcoin out. It remains in my node. And it's this agreement between me and another person to just route it back and forth, but it never leaves my possession. And I don't think we've

Starting point is 00:34:15 ever had money that can even do this from a technical standpoint. We haven't. And it's still not violating this Islamic theme of credit-based or debt-based money, which I just find beyond fascinating. And as Brian, as you well know, is, I mean, this could be our new risk-free rate in 10, 15 years from now, which is also mind-blowing that it's not violating these principles, which I just find mind-blowing. Yeah, when you talk about risk-free rate, it reminds me of what Harris-Ferfran said on the movie, too, is that he tells a story about how God sets the price in the market, right? And if you think about a risk-free rate, who sets that price?

Starting point is 00:34:56 Well, today it's the Federal Reserve. You know, they say treasuries or the risk-free, and that's kind of what we base the risk-free rate on. But if you think about it, God who should set the price in the market, not like a Fed or a group of people. Yeah, should be free and so we should let the market decide what the risk-free rate is. And right now, the risk-free rates being manipulated by the Federal Reserve. What was one of the biggest challenges that you guys faced throughout this? Like, if you just go from the very beginning to where you're at, right? And maybe it's right now with the marketing or whatever.

Starting point is 00:35:29 I don't know. But what would you say is the biggest challenge? And then we'll go to the most rewarding part after that. I think the biggest challenge was the time commitment to do this. You know, we spent over two years. Wow. We did over 60 interviews all over the world. And it was just, it was a lot of time.

Starting point is 00:35:47 Yeah. And then that yielded about 75 hours worth of interviews. And we had to take it from 75 hours at 1.5 hours. Wow. Going through all that editing, picking what was, we thought was appropriate for the movie, what wasn't, just the continuing cuts and cuts and cuts and versions. We went through like, what, 20 cuts, 20 versions? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:36:09 You know, it was just like, it's our first time doing this, making a movie. but there's so much minutia that you have to pay attention to. And it was just like every time we would watch it, we'd find something else that needed to be fixed. And so the movie that you see today, it's, we kind of grade it. I ask like,

Starting point is 00:36:26 what would you give it? She said eight out of ten. And I would say that same thing, because we're perfectionist. There's still always little things in there. But what we were told by movie makers is that you'll never get up perfect. No matter. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:36 You work on it for another year. It may be maybe just a little bit better. So we finally just said, okay, it's good enough to let's release. And like you said, according to the comments, people love it. So I guess it's good enough. Yeah. How about you?

Starting point is 00:36:49 I think you had unrealistic expectations of what it taught to really make a story and to tell a story because the first time we got the very first rough cut back, which was three hours in length. He watched it and he was so mad because he realized at that moment what it was going to cost him time-wise to be able to get this movie where he wanted to go. And, I mean, it was a bad moment for you. Yeah, I thought I could hire a filmmaker, tell him what's up here, and he would make a film, right?

Starting point is 00:37:24 Yeah. But it doesn't work like that. Like, if you have something up here, you're the only one that can make film, period. So I was really mad at myself for, like, committing to making the movie. But looking back, like, I wouldn't want to have made the movie again, but I would make the movie again, if I had to, yeah. When you just look at how complex Bitcoin is, and you're trying to distill all that down into a concise turnkey, somebody shows up and they kind of leave an hour in, what is it, an hour and a half, 20 minutes? For them to leave in that short duration

Starting point is 00:37:58 and really have a deep understanding of all the complexities of it, like you almost can't outsource that. If you're somebody that actually deeply understands Bitcoin, I just don't even know that you can outsource that information. You have to be in. So basically it was you knew you were going to have to be heavily involved was what it was. Like we were involved. It's like I'm taking 10 years of knowledge. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:20 Yeah. I'm acting that into 89 minutes. Yeah. So that it saves the viewer time, right? Yeah. Like it did me, you know, years to like get to this point to understand Bitcoin. Yeah. So what I want to do is accelerate people's learning curve.

Starting point is 00:38:34 So they don't have to spend five years to understand it. you could spend 89 minutes and understand why this technology is so important. Yeah. Kelly, what was yours? I think the hardest part was managing him. And by that, I mean, his expectations. I mean, I know how hard it is to tell a story well. You have to keep digging in and peeling away layers and getting to the nugget.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And honestly, because he has studied for 10 years, when he thinks he's given him. a simple explanation, it's not. So that's kind of where I came in. I am not as studied as he is. I understand Bitcoin on a basic level, but not like you, not like you or him or Natalie or anybody else in that film. And so I would say, that definition's not going to get it. No, we got to dig down again. Keep going. Keep digging. And that was really hard for him because he wasn't patient through that process. And it is painful. I get it. You think you've told your story and then someone comes in and it was like and that doesn't make sense we got to do it again that was hard he didn't want to take my revisions you did not take my revision suggestions well did

Starting point is 00:39:45 you i did 80 agreed with 88 of them no but you didn't take them well he finally came you know agreed to them but it would take me saying okay it's your movie when you do what you want when it i got to sleep on it then the next morning you go back you like okay we can cut it so The other thing that was hard was to cut our friends. If we had people who had just great parts, but they were deviating from the storyline and we had to pull them out. That was hard for both of us because we'd be like, no, we don't want to lose them. It's so good. And they gave their time so freely and kindly, we didn't want to.

Starting point is 00:40:21 Yeah, we only used by half the people that we needed. That stuck for both of us. Yeah. What was the hardest part of Bitcoin to tell in this? Because some of it gets really complex. Like, we were talking about the lightning channels and stuff like that. If somebody's showing up and they've never heard of this, like, you're just not going to understand that right out of the gate.

Starting point is 00:40:41 But for the part that you were trying to explain technically or religiously or whatever, what was the hardest part of the story to tell in the amount of time you were trying to tell it? I think it is, what is Bitcoin and how does it work? Because it is an abstract idea, basically. And if you are not a mathematician and you don't understand algorithms, how much? in the world, are you supposed to wrap your head around this idea that computers are out there solving a math problem and it creates money that you're supposed to use? That is crazy. Like, if you put it in those terms, that's how the average person thinks about it. And then let's go

Starting point is 00:41:17 ahead and add in these magic keywords that you have and you can put them on a ledger. What's a ledger? I mean, what is going on? And then it's exoh hash. And then we start getting really cuckoo bird out there. And it's hard. It's an abstract, complex concept. Bitcoin is. itself, just what is it and how does it work to pull those down to a level that gives people some confidence in being able to explore it further. That was the challenge. But I think we did a really good job. Oh, you did.

Starting point is 00:41:47 You know, looking at how it solves problem, I just thought it was great. I thought that the people we had in there did a really good job. Yeah. The thing that I'm most impressed with, and I don't think that there was any type of planning for this, the timing of this movie, is so impeccable. that it's coming out right now or post-having. You're getting all the speculators are coming because they're seeing price action, but you're having this political acceptance. And I mean, I think it was Senator Cynthia Lummus today proposing yet another bill for a Bitcoin treasury. And now you have this movie.

Starting point is 00:42:22 So people are coming and they're saying, what is this? What is this? And you have this incredible movie. The distribution. Talk to us about where people can watch this. Can they watch it on their Apple TV? people pull this up. Yeah. So we decided just recently, like a month ago, this was a for-profit entity. And we decided that, you know, the people that really need to understand what Bitcoin is or the people who can't afford $10 to buy or run that movie. So we decided that we weren't on charge people.

Starting point is 00:42:52 And so we put it on YouTube. If you go to our website, God bless Bitcoin.com. It's on there. When it's on X, you know, the former Twitter, we're submitting it to Apple. So it'd be on Apple, you know, within, it takes them, what, two or three months? Yeah, yeah. It'll be up on like Apple TV, Amazon Prime. There's TiVod, which is transactional video on demand, A-Bod.

Starting point is 00:43:16 These are all new terms we had to learn, you know, advertisement video on demand. But we've basically open-sourced it. So anyone could go to our website, download the movie for free. And if you want to host a viewing or a festival or I had someone from London email, me that he works with the BBC and he wants to present it to the BBC. They'll, you know, put commercials on it. And he asked me if we can share the revenue. And I was like, no, it's, this is a gift. It's, if you get it on the BBC, you keep the revenue. So we want to create financial incentives for people to go out, take the movie and go out and get eyeballs on it. So it's a gift.

Starting point is 00:43:54 And just like in the spirit of Satoshi, you know, Satoshi gave us Bitcoin for free. He could have, you know, patented the technology. He could have started a company with it, but he didn't. And he just gave it to us for free. And that's how we felt. We thought this, we should just give this to the, you know, Bitcoin community for free and let people watch it. Well, it's a gift from the Bitcoin community, not us.

Starting point is 00:44:17 It's everybody in the Bitcoin community rallied together to help make this film. And so. You're too gracious. Don't listen to Kelly. Don't listen to Kelly. We are a group. We gave it freely in the spirit of the community. Yeah, no one was.

Starting point is 00:44:30 amazing. You know, you flew down. You know, the guys, come on. Your time. I mean, I saw how much guys. Everybody gave press and everybody. Yeah, well, some gave a whole lot more than others. That is incredibly gracious.

Starting point is 00:44:47 No, in the opening credits, it says a film by the Bitcoin community. Wow. This is a, you know, it's from the community effort. Yeah, we're trying to educate people and why this is the best form of money, humans have ever created. Yeah. I mean, how many people watched the rough cuts as they came through time and time again and offered feedback.

Starting point is 00:45:08 I mean, it wasn't just the people who were interviewed, just the entire process. Everybody in the community gave. Wow. That's all I can say. You guys are very special people. What else do I have? Is there something that you guys want to highlight from the movie that changed you or that you think is really important or that is an important or that is

Starting point is 00:45:29 discussed very often. What do you guys got? Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing I took away. Yeah, I grew up in a small town in Illinois and, you know, we had Protestants and Catholics in the town, right? You were either, you know, Catholic or you were either Baptist or a Protestant faith. And we had one Mormon family. Okay. But we didn't have to be like Jewish families or Muslim families in the small town I lived in. So I just didn't know much about other religions. And after talking to Harris-Refron and the rabbis and the different religions, what I realized, and I guess I should have known this, but the Old Testament, those are the scriptures that all the world's religions use. So the Old Testament is what Christians use, what Jews use, and what Muslims use.

Starting point is 00:46:16 And so the Ten Commandments, Genesis, Ezekiel, Proverbs, those are core beliefs to all these religions. And so what I realize is that we're all very similar in our belief system. You know, it's just you get out later with the after Jesus is born and all the different fractions. But if you drill down to the base layer of core beliefs of the religions, we all believe kind of the same thing. And so that was one big takeaway for me is that we're very similar, we're more similar than we are different. It's interesting because people love the focus on the differences without even talking about the similarities and what it is that they do agree on. And, you know, maybe that's human nature that kind of drives us that way to, but I think it's a

Starting point is 00:47:05 super important point is we're trying to rally around something that I think shifts the entire incentive structure of society and in a way that incentivizes cooperation as opposed to division and divisiveness. How about you, Kelly, anything that you want to highlight or that was kind of, you know, you went through this journey, this long journey, anything that changed you or that you think is meaningful to highlight? And if not, that's fine. No, I think I probably touched on it when I spoke about Natalie, when you realize that millennials today, you know, they are hurting. But I guess I've always had a servant heart. I've been in education my whole life, but for the past 15 years, I have worked with students who've grown up in generational poverty.

Starting point is 00:47:50 And when Brian talked to me about Bitcoin for the first time, I realized that is something that could help those communities the most. And I think what surprised me was realize, because I always focus there, right? That's where I give most of my time is in those communities. But when I heard Natalie say that, I was like, hey, open your eyes up, Kelly. It's not just the people who live in poverty. It is the wage earner. And in fact, it is people with college degrees who are still struggling.

Starting point is 00:48:20 We have got to do something to help people understand that there is a better way out there for them to store value and to get ahead. So I think that really just opened my eyes up to a broader group of people. You know, kind of like Brian, he realized that we're more alike than we are different. And it's true. We all struggle. We all need to say it. We need it. All of us.

Starting point is 00:48:45 Yeah. Thank God for Bitcoin. Thank God. That's right. The inspiration for the movie. That's right. So just to kind of wrap up, one of the things that, one of the comments that I saw that I just really love about this is people saying that they feel like they finally have a resource

Starting point is 00:49:02 that they can just hand to a family member as opposed to saying, read this book, which is usually a pretty big burden. Most people have 90 minutes to sit down and they want to watch a movie. They want to watch a documentary and they can just kind of sit on their couch and relax. And for me, personally, when I have this. that person, it's like, all right, so give me a resource for Bitcoin. This is going to be at the top of the list. And I guess what I'm trying to say to the listeners is like, this is it. Like, this is such a turnkey. It starts the person. Everyone talks about like marketing funnels. This is the perfect thing for a

Starting point is 00:49:37 person to watch that really doesn't know anything about Bitcoin. And it gives them enough that they're probably going to be very, very curious after watching this because of how much ground it covers in such a amount of time. So we're going to have links. And we want people to use it. We want people to download the movie. If you have a platform you want to put it on, put it up on your platform. Drive traffic to your platform who's in our movie. It's open. It's free to everybody to use. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We're going to have links in the show notes to numerous places where people can watch it. Please comment. Please like, share. This is just such a powerful movie. And kudos to you guys. I'm telling you, folks, I've seen how hard they've worked on this behind the scenes. You just have no

Starting point is 00:50:21 idea how hard they've worked on this. But thank you guys for making time and coming on the show. And thank you for this movie. God bless Bitcoin. Thank you for us. Thanks, Preston. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to follow Bitcoin Fundamentals on your favorite podcast app and never miss out on episodes. To access our show notes, transcripts, or courses, go to The Investorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment. purposes only, before making any decision consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by the Investors Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.

We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - BTC195: Making THE Bitcoin Movie w/ Kelly and Brian Estes (Bitcoin Podcast)

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