We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - BTC232: Bitcoin Allocation in a Changing Monetary Standard w/ Jim Crider (Bitcoin Podcast)

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to TIP. Hey everyone, welcome to this Wednesday's release of the Bitcoin Fundamentals podcast. On this week's episode, I have a good friend and financial advisor, Jim Kreider, on the show to talk about Bitcoin from a financial planning standpoint. We get into interesting tax implications, estate planning, how to have challenging Bitcoin conversations when some family members aren't on board, how to think about sizing and many other important and necessary topics. So with that, I'm excited to bring you this conversation with Mr. Jim Kreider. Rester. Celebrating 10 years, you are listening to Bitcoin Fundamentals by the Investors Podcast Network.

Starting point is 00:00:41 Now for your host, Preston Pish. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I'm here with the one and only. Jim Kreider, welcome back, sir. Hey, thanks, Preston. I appreciate it. Hey, so here's where I want to start. Everybody's sharing this chart of the Bitcoin price versus the M2 global liquidity.

Starting point is 00:01:08 And it's going off like a rocket ship. And it's funny because people are putting like a hundred day delay or 120 day delay Bitcoin's price in order for it to kind of take effect with this M2 number. What are your thoughts on this? Is this a bunch of bunk? Is this just opium? What should be the takeaway? It's funny.

Starting point is 00:01:28 I think most people live in a world of sharing these things on X or Nostro, whatever. I live in this world of actually having these conversations. I have had this conversation about that particular chart, I think, three or four times today. No way. With clients. Yeah, the things that you mull over and maybe talk with someone about, like, that's what I do for a living all day. And people come to me and say, hey, what's the legitimacy of this? And family I spoke with a bit ago, they need some Bitcoin in a couple weeks to buy a house.

Starting point is 00:01:55 Okay. Basically, all over net worth is in Bitcoin and some real estate. And it said, Jim, do we sell our Bitcoin today? Do we wait two weeks? Oh, my God. Do we sell half today to hedge that volume? volatility. And it's like, well, my crystal ball is broken. But then we did talk through that global liquidity chart. And personally, I think there's merit there. I think the general market

Starting point is 00:02:17 sentiment is obviously better now than it was a couple weeks ago. And I think it will progress over the next few weeks. Yeah. I think it'll get really interesting come early July. Trump's tariff stuff 90 days. We're looking at, I think, July 10. So between now and then, I think there should be things will probably run off of general liquidity and then we'll revisit tariffs and everything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And based off of that, I would say, I told him, dude, I don't know. We could hedge it, sell half today and take a look at later times.

Starting point is 00:02:45 But I personally put some stake in there. I love this talking point because this is something that I get from family and friends all the time. It's like, I'll talk about Bitcoin, but I'm talking about it in four year, eight year moves. I've got a lot of confidence in what it's going to do. And if you're asking me what's going to happen next week or a month from now, I'm just kind of like, dude, I have no idea. Like, I have no clue how to, you know, the president could come out tomorrow and said,

Starting point is 00:03:11 eh, I changed my mind. I don't want to just tariff China now. I'm literally back on the table tariffing everybody. And then all of a sudden, the market's crap. And it's like, I have no idea how to predict that. I don't know. So I'm pretty sure those were my words to him where I should Trump can come out tomorrow and say, we're going to tariff everyone 100%.

Starting point is 00:03:29 Like that could happen tomorrow and just derail this whole. liquidity thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's stuff. This gets into, I think, something that is seen by everybody, which is how do you have this conversation? Because it's a, it's a personality thing, some of this is some people are traders. Their longest holding period is 90 days, right? And then other people like myself, and I'm highly biased by this Warren Buffett background where he tries to only have 20 picks in his entire life. And he's just trying to amass as many shares or proportional ownership of whatever that he's buying for the long haul once he finds something that he finds extremely valuable. So I'm way in that camp. And I feel like I'm constantly

Starting point is 00:04:16 being surrounded by people that are asking me very short-term kind of questions. And it's just, it's almost like incompatible for me. So how do you deal with this? Because some of it is so personality driven that you're not going to shake that out of the personality. You don't want to change the personality, but how do you advise something like that? That's probably the hardest part of my job. We have to acknowledge first off that the short term focus can be derived from two places. One of those can be, I would say, unhealth. And that unhealth is your emotion driven. So you can fear typically function in short term type durations. So I try not to go there with people. The other reason you might be having a shorter duration or time frame is because of life.

Starting point is 00:04:59 Now, typically, we try to plan around those things ahead of two weeks from now, and that's going to go with portfolio construction and liquidity and all that. But sometimes life comes at you and you have to make decisions. Do I sell the Bitcoin today or in two weeks? And yeah, like you said, a lot of that comes down to personality. It also comes down to general flexibility. Like, if Bitcoin goes from 92,000 to 72,000 and you held during that two-week period, now you have to sell more. A question I pose routinely is if you had that Bitcoin and it went from 92 to 102 in the next two weeks,

Starting point is 00:05:34 versus it goes from 92 to 82 in the next couple of weeks, how do those hit you and impact you? And emotionally, but then also lifestyle-wise, if in a week you have to sell that Bitcoin for a house And suddenly you cannot buy that house that you need and it'll make your wife way happier. I would probably say what's a little bit more Bitcoin in a week versus not having home for your family? I would go in and sell today versus, okay, we went from having a net worth of $10 million to a net worth of $9.9 million. Okay, then you have more flexibility to base off emotion rather than needs.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Yeah. One of the other things I think that is an important conversation. I love those two points, by the way. And one of the things that I'm just really hesitant on. And it's not even speaking with a Bitcoin side of it. I would just say equities at large or any type of investment. When I'm looking at short-term moves and I'm really just trying to get that timing right because sometimes you are in a situation where I need to come up with some cash because I've got to go buy this thing,

Starting point is 00:06:33 whether it's a car or whatever. And you're just trying to make the best decision you can in that short time horizon, trading-wise. And one of the things that I guess I've learned through the years is if I'm dealing with a small cap company, let's just say a company that has a market cap under $100 million. The ability to use any type of technical indicator on that I have found to be extremely difficult and borderline worthless. When you're talking about something that's maybe much larger, call it the S&P 500 index

Starting point is 00:07:08 or Bitcoin or something that has a market cap of over a hundred. hundred billion, I think you're starting to get to something that actually maybe the technical indicators can be somewhat of a clue, but not even that reliable. I'm curious if you agree with this gym or if you think that technical indicators are something that people should pay attention to. What are your thoughts? I mean, I'll probably get in trouble with some people that, I mean, what's the saying that technical indicators is astrology? Astrology for men. Yeah. Yeah. I personally, don't really lean into technical stuff. I guess the closest, a lot of financial planners out there would say that even just looking at global liquidity would be some sort of technical bias. And I would say that's probably as technical as I would personally get. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. For me, I'm looking like global liquidity. Obviously, the M2 is a really interesting, especially in the past five years. It's become a really interesting metric to kind of look at that compared to all your other major equity indices. and just the flow of quote unquote value into and out of equity markets and fixed income markets.

Starting point is 00:08:19 And yeah, I don't know. When I'm looking at really large indices and I love putting the international, like the S&P 500 with the Nikai and like all these other types of indices, and you put them all on the same chart and you can see how they're just, they're ebbing and flowing very similarly. I mean, the magnitudes are different, but the selloff or the bid is together, which I find really. really fascinating and somewhat complementary to this idea that the M2 money supply is one of the biggest inputs to just growth in contraction in the overall economy. I think that a lot of people who go to technical analysis and really, I think that really what we're pointing towards is themes. And thematically, when you look at these charts,

Starting point is 00:09:05 money supply and yeah, total global markets over prolonged periods of time, that's speaking to thematically, what is happening. That's where there's a big difference in looking at global or money supply charts or S&P 500 from a week versus zooming out and looking at the narrative for the last 50 years. You can get a lot more information from a larger data pool. And again, I'm not trying to read T leaves into today's movements, but rather looking at again, thematically has anything changed here. And that's where even, you know, when Bitcoin dropped to the mid-70s like two weeks ago, the sentiment there was the money is still broken. But, yeah, Bitcoin's down whatever percent in the last few weeks.

Starting point is 00:09:44 But has the narrative changed? And as long as the narrative hasn't changed, then my conviction hasn't changed either. Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, and I think this move that's happened with the tariffs, the way that I would fundamentally try to explain it to people is when you're dealing with an entire system that is built on promises, which is credit and fractional reserve banking, and you have a change in sentiment as to risk. And the cost of goods and all of those considerations, which the tariffs were doing, because we just realized that, you know, it was selling off at such an abrupt pace that then the Trump administration had to pivot and say, oh, no, it's just China.

Starting point is 00:10:23 Everything else is on a pause. And then the whole market was just like, oh, okay, we don't have to price this with as much risk as we were. And you just saw the bid on the dollar and that liquidity start to come back into the market immediately after that announcement. And so some of this stuff might just look like it's, and some of it is a little bit of hocus pocus, but at the end of the day, I'm assuming you agree with this, Jim, that the dollar in fiat currency is still absolutely dominating the global mathematics of value around the world, right? Bitcoin's like a sliver, an absolute sliver compared to the size of the fiat system. Yeah. I mean, that's where you look at, again, looking at the theme of if the dollar is

Starting point is 00:11:05 order of magnitude, the dollar is and other assets sit. And the structural issues there versus the size of Bitcoin. And my opinion being the solution to that glaring issue, like the asymmetry of owning Bitcoin, I think it just makes total sense. And not owning, I think, is massively risky. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. All right. I want you guys to imagine spending three days in Oslo at the height of the summer. You've got long days of daylight, incredible food, floating saunas on the Oslo Fjord. In every conversation you have is with people who are actually shaping the future. That's what the Oslo Freedom Forum is.

Starting point is 00:11:42 From June 1st through the 3rd, 2026, the Oslo Freedom Forum is entering its 18th year, bringing together activists, technologists, journalists, investors, and builders from all over the world, many of them operating on the front lines of history. This is where you hear firsthand stories from people using Bitcoin to survive currency collapse, using AI to expose human rights abuses, and build. building technology under censorship and authoritarian pressures. These aren't abstract ideas. These are tools real people are using right now.

Starting point is 00:12:14 You'll be in the room with about 2,000 extraordinary individuals, dissidents, founders, philanthropists, policymakers, the kind of people you don't just listen to but end up having dinner with. Over three days, you'll experience powerful mainstage talks, hands-on workshops on freedom tech, and financial sovereignty, immersive art installations, and conversations that can continue long after the sessions end. And it's all happening in Oslo in June. If this sounds like your kind of room, well, you're in luck because you can attend in person. Standard and patron passes are available at Osloof Freedom Forum.com with patron passes offering deep access, private events, and small group time with the speakers. The Oslo Freedom Forum isn't just a

Starting point is 00:12:57 conference. It's a place where ideas meet reality and where the future is being built by people living it. If you run a business, you've probably had the same thought lately. How do we make AI useful in the real world? Because the upside is huge, but guessing your way into it is a risky move. With NetSuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work today. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP, trusted by over 43,000 businesses. It pulls your financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM into one unified system. And that connected data is what makes your AI smarter. It can automate routine work, surface actionable insights, and help you cut costs while making fast AI-powered decisions with confidence. And now with the NetSuite AI connector,

Starting point is 00:13:44 you can use the AI of your choice to connect directly to your real business data. This isn't some add-on, it's AI built into the system that runs your business. And whether your company does millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you stay ahead. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get their free business guide demystifying AI at netsuite.com slash study. The guide is free to you at net suite.com slash study. NetSuite.com slash study. When I started my own side business, it suddenly felt like I had to become 10 different people overnight wearing many different hats. Starting something from scratch can feel exciting, but also incredibly overwhelming and lonely. That's why having the right tools matters.

Starting point is 00:14:30 For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from brands just getting started to household names. It gives you everything you need in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics. So you're not juggling a bunch of different platforms. You can build a beautiful online store with hundreds of ready-to-use templates, and Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, and even enhance your product photography.

Starting point is 00:15:02 Plus, if you ever get stuck, they've got award-winning 24-7 customer support. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing... Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash WSB. Go to Shopify.com slash WSB. That's Shopify.com slash WSB. All right.

Starting point is 00:15:31 Back to the show. Let's talk about the portfolio construction. So as a Bitcoin maxi and a person who literally values everything on the planet through this Bitcoin lens, and I imagine a lot of the people that listen to the show are doing something similar, it's very easy to get super concentrated into Bitcoin. But what does the conversation sound like for somebody that they kind of understand it? They're like, I get it. I understand why I should have some of this in my portfolio.

Starting point is 00:15:59 what kind of sizing then makes sense for this type of person and for somebody who's not like gang busters salivating at the mouth, I need to have everything in Bitcoin. So you have to remember that the majority of families we work with came to us just looking for someone to help them with financial planning, retirement planning and tax help and those sorts of thing. And they stumbled on us and innocently we're looking for a normal financial planner. And then through our relationship and building trust, then we introduced them to Bitcoin. That is, I would say, 85% of our clients were no corners prior to working with us, either hostile

Starting point is 00:16:34 towards Bitcoin or zero idea about what it was. And then again, after building a relationship and demonstrating value through tax planning and estate planning, these other areas, once we get to the conversation on investments, then we open that box of, hey, there's something you should know about me and our firm and how we invest, and then we go into Bitcoin. And it's from there that we're able to unpack it. It's a long conversation to really make sure they have deep education on the history of money, the history of Bitcoin, and then portfolio allocation.

Starting point is 00:17:02 If we've done a good job on education from what is money, the history of assets, the history of Bitcoin, if we've done a good job there, the natural conclusion that they ask us is, well, I guess I should own some. The question is, how do I buy this thing and how much do I own? And so all of our clients have exposure to this. Jim, is that a custom answer based on how well you think they actually understand it? But to a degree, yes. So we have clients in their 80s. We have clients in their 20s. We have clients who have annual incomes of 150,000. We have clients who have an annual income of 10 million.

Starting point is 00:17:35 Net worths of negative half a million because student loan debt to net worths of 80 million. So the allocation is certainly going to depend on a lot of factors, especially short-term liquidity needs, near-term liquidity needs, things like that. But then we have to acknowledge risk tolerance is important that I think risk tolerance is often over-emphasized. If you lean into risk tolerance, like, oh, I don't like my portfolio to move too much, and you allow that to control your allocation, then you're allowing the client who probably doesn't understand actual risk to dictate their portfolio. So risk tolerance is suddenly dictating how you invest rather than risk capacity. Risk capacity is way more important. And if you can help people truly understand risks,

Starting point is 00:18:16 you will help influence what their risk tolerance is in accordance to all the risk of the markets. So I agree with what you're saying here, 100%. But what I would push back on is you're assuming that they actually understand this argument that you're making right now and that they can separate the amount of volatility that they're able to handle emotionally with and separating that with their risk tolerance. And I think for a lot of people, they can't just like, they'll look at their portfolio and be like, Jim, if it's like the worst year, forever, I can tolerate a 20% downturn. And if it's more than that, I'm going to freak out and lose my mind. And so the question becomes more of an emotional tolerance as opposed to risk

Starting point is 00:19:02 tolerance, right? Yeah. So conviction is built on education. So we have to make sure they have deep education, therefore they have deep conviction. That and really have thought through. Like, one thing we ask routinely with our clients is, let's fast forward 20 years. And you were not successful in the way that you have described and you envision. What is the most probable cause of bad outcome. And they identify what led to that. I didn't save as much as I should have. I invested poorly. I was overly concentrated in an asset. I neglected to spend my time in the way I should have those sorts of things. And that can come up with over allocation to a particular asset or, again, poor sequence of returns. And then we'll talk through. Like outside of,

Starting point is 00:19:42 long-term goals, is there anything between now and the next three years that we should be aware of? And now it certainly impact portfolio construction as well. Our average client has a substantial amount of their total investment allocation in Bitcoin and then how we invest. You say substantial, just stick a number on this, like 10%, 20%. So between Bitcoin and then, right, so we manage a few different types of portfolios for our clients. One of them I just call it our discretionary portfolio. The discretionary portfolio for the last few years has been fully in Bitcoin adjacent stuff. It's the largest position in there is micro strategy followed by a handful of other companies.

Starting point is 00:20:18 So between the discretionary portfolio and Bitcoin outright hell, Our average client right now would say is between 45 and 65 percent of total investable assets. Wow. Now, sort of wild. And that's aggregate of all ages and risk tolerance. Our smallest risk tolerance of any client or our smallest allocation of any client is 10% of total investable assets. And this person was actually lifetime FBI agent who was very familiar with Ross's case. So he came to us with a massive bias against Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:20:47 So winning him over to understand Bitcoin and embrace it was a huge win. It's substantial. Now, how we approach this is a fewfold. Real fast, I think this is also an important question to tack on to that. You say 40 to 60 percent that maybe started off as 10 percent and it grew to that amount and you're just letting the winners ride or talk to us about, you know, re- this term rebalanced portfolio. Go ahead. Take it. Yeah. So that's tough because a few years back, I started this company four years ago. Okay. At that point, I would argue and was arguing that we were probably nearing a cycle high. I did not believe in like hyper-bitcoinization for that cycle. So at that point, we were sort of hedging the possibility of a downside, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:30 downward move. I didn't want to bring on a bunch of clients and they'd lose 80% of their investments in Bitcoin. So at that point, our average allocation was about 15, maybe 20%. Now, we did not have a single client who freaked out and sold Bitcoin from the drawdown from 69 down to the 16, not a single one. During that time frame, though, we had a ton of conversations. So February of, was that 22, 23 when Bitcoin was around 16 grand, we had a lot of conversations with clients about, hey, let's reduce your 401k allocation or savings rate, and we're going to put our foot on the gas to Bitcoin. So at that point, we went from a new allocation percentage at like, instead of like 15% to

Starting point is 00:22:09 moving into like 50% range. So we have allocation of 50% plus just the consumption of the portfolio as Bitcoin's grown. And that's why it's hard for me to give. day by day, even, a total portfolio allocation for average client. But it's substantial. And part of that is because we're putting the foot on the gas to buy more and also because it's just gobbling up now performing everything else to the own. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:33 And I'm assuming you're pretty bullish into the end of this year. Yes, sir. Yeah. So that also speaks to how we invest. So our clients are going to go buy Bitcoin and put into coal storage. Generally, the theme is there like, hey, we're going to pretend this doesn't exist for really long time. I'm not going to try to time it and sell it and rebalance.

Starting point is 00:22:50 against your other assets on this, this is going to go away. If we need to, we can do tax loss harvesting or harvest some capital gains or do something there for tax purposes that might make sense or something with your estate, that outside of that, it's going to go away for a long time. Now, that other portfolio we manage, that is more tactical. So that's where we can lean so heavily into this is because, hated or not, we will start selling some of those Bitcoin adjacent positions throughout this year. So I feel comfortable with having such a high allocation at this point, because I know that by end of this year, we'll be substantially lower in that discretionary portfolio as we take in consideration the possibility of a four-year bear cycle. So we'll move over to more

Starting point is 00:23:30 of like risk off assets for a bit during that time. Maybe I'm wrong. But again, even if I'm wrong about that, our clients will still on average be substantially like pretty substantially holding Bitcoin. They'll just be out of it in that other portfolio. And then you have to also consider like what are we holding in tandem with Bitcoin? So, again, if we're saying average clients 45 to 65%, which the only asset I've owned for a very long time is Bitcoin and a couple of other stocks are like micro-strategy and a couple other companies like that, that's it. I don't even own a house anymore.

Starting point is 00:24:01 We sold our house a while back just so we could buy more Bitcoin. And I have clients like us. They own business and Bitcoin and that's it. But yeah, if you own 65% of your total investment assets in Bitcoin, what's the other 35%? And that, even with the other 35% is, may give yourself more permission to lean into Bitcoin a little bit further. So it's how do these things play off one another? So for instance, we don't really own any mid or long duration bonds.

Starting point is 00:24:28 Someone may argue that owning long duration bonds right now can make sense if Fed drops rates, but I think that's picking up pennies of front of a stream roller. So our bond portfolio right now is basically all ultra short duration and money market funds. And that's all we've held for four years. Like, I'm not going to take the interest rate risk. I don't think it's worthwhile. And heck, interest rate risk, and frankly, I think the credit risk is starting to show. We're starting to see faults in the credit risk, even for risk-free assets. So how we're holding our risk-off assets.

Starting point is 00:24:55 If the purpose of a risk-off asset is to hedge against the risky ones, I'd rather go full tilt and move it to something like a money market. And then even our other equities that we own. So I manage another portfolio. I call it Frankenstein just because it's an oddball. It's meant to be more like an all-weather portfolio. And when I initially built this is when we had a lot of heavy Bitcoin clients coming in who said, Jim, I fully believe in Bitcoin, and I think it's going to go up forever, but I'm 68.

Starting point is 00:25:21 And if Bitcoin drops for a substantial period of time, I don't want to go work at Home Depot. What do I own? And the thing is, those people, even if Bitcoin, if they think that Bitcoin's going to go down a lot for a while, they're still not going to go own a 70-30 portfolio with a long-duration bonds. that still flies in the face of their views of money and macroeconomics. So we built a portfolio that still complements Bitcoiners' view on the system. And that's really heavy. Like right now, the largest holdings in that for years have been gold and Berkshire Hathaway.

Starting point is 00:25:53 And that's done really well. Frankly, it's done a lot better than I thought it would. I have been tempted to rebalance or sell up our gold so many times over the last several months, but I've held the conviction. And I'm glad we have. And I tell our clients who are Bitcoin heavy. The goal of this portfolio is to mass. underperform your Bitcoin. We hope that happens. But we also own this in case we're wrong,

Starting point is 00:26:12 or at least in case we're wrong for longer than your wallet can withstand. So when we frame it on, what else do you own? How much time do we buy? What's your war chest of risk off assets? Again, that allows people to feel more permission to own more Bitcoin and volatile assets. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. No, it's not your imagination. risk and regulation are ramping up, and customers now expect proof of security just to do business. That's why VANTA is a game changer. VANTA automates your compliance process and brings compliance, risk, and customer trust together on one AI-powered platform. So whether you're prepping for a SOC or running an enterprise GRC program, VANTA keeps you secure and keeps your deals moving.

Starting point is 00:26:58 Instead of chasing spreadsheets and screenshots, VANTA gives you continuous automation across more than 35 security and privacy frameworks. Companies like Ramp and Ryder spend 82% less time on audits with Vanta. That's not just faster compliance, it's more time for growth. If I were running a startup or scaling a team today, this is exactly the type of platform I'd want in place. Get started at Vanta.com slash billionaires. That's Vanta.com slash billionaires. Ever wanted to explore the world of online trading, but haven't dared try? The futures market is more active now than ever before, and Plus 500 futures is the perfect place to start.

Starting point is 00:27:43 Plus 500 gives you access to a wide range of instruments, the S&B 500, NASDAQ, Bitcoin, gas, and much more. Explore equity indices, energy, metals, 4X, crypto, and beyond. With a simple and intuitive platform, you can trade from anywhere, right from. your phone. Deposit with a minimum of $100 and experience the fast, accessible futures trading you've been waiting for. See a trading opportunity, you'll be able to trade it in just two clicks once your account is open. Not sure if you're ready, not a problem. Plus 500 gives you an unlimited, risk-free demo account with charts and analytic tools for you to practice on.

Starting point is 00:28:23 With over 20 years of experience, Plus 500 is your gateway to the markets. Visit Plus 500, to learn more. Trading in futures involves risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify. Plus 500, it's trading with a plus. Billion dollar investors don't typically park their cash in high-yield savings accounts. Instead, they often use one of the premier passive income strategies for institutional investors, private credit. Now, the same passive income strategy is available to investors of all sizes, thanks to the fund-rides. income fund, which has more than $600 million invested in a 7.97% distribution rate. With traditional savings yields falling, it's no wonder private credit has grown to be a trillion dollar

Starting point is 00:29:12 asset class in the last few years. Visit fundrise.com slash WSB to invest in the Fundrise income fund in just minutes. The fund's total return in 2025 was 8%, and the average annual total return since inception is 7.8%. Past performance does not guarantee future results, current distribution rate as of 1231, 2025. Carefully consider the investment material before investing, including objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. This and other information can be found in the income funds prospectus at fundrise.com slash income.

Starting point is 00:29:48 This is a paid advertisement. All right. Back to the show. You had talked a little bit about tax planning, estate planning, things like that. What would be, you know, a high quality comment that would apply to most listeners on the show that you think is important when it comes to estate planning as far as just thinking through, you know, something that's just generally important information that may be a lot overlooked? I mean, this is insanely basic, but the most important part, like, I have four young kids. If you have young kids, honestly, I don't even care about your money when it comes to your state plan, nearly as much as I care about what happens to your kids if you and your spouse kick the bucket. So just in a state plan for that purpose.

Starting point is 00:30:27 Kendra, my wife, she and I are currently planning a trip to Italy in a couple months. And we need to make sure our state plan is fully buttoned up just in case. So I know that's not about money at all, but your kids and making sure they don't go to the state is a lot more important than how do we make sure Uncle Sam doesn't get any more money. That and obviously having some sort of trust in place, even if it's not sexy at all, just helping you avoid having to go through probate and the cost and the exposure and neckiness of your assets if you have to go through probate.

Starting point is 00:30:55 the time, you know, that's a pain. So having some sort of trust in place, you know, if you're at a high or ultra high network place, having the lifetime exemption is really high right now. So this is an issue for a lot of people. But if you're starting to be an issue with the possibility of passing up the lifetime exemption, you might want to look at getting an irrevocable trust put into place. There is a way of setting up an irrevocable trust. It is section, I actually wrote it down earlier because I look at this a lot. It's section 675. It allows what's called substitutionary or swap powers inside of an irrevocable trust. So what that means, like, super simple is typically an irrevocable trust.

Starting point is 00:31:35 If you put Bitcoin, you have, let's see, have a net worth of $30 million, Preston, and you think Bitcoin's move up a lot more. You might want to get that your assets out of your estate. So when you kick the bucket, it's not subject to estate taxes. So if you moved your Bitcoin into the irrevocable trust today, and then that goes from being worth $30 million to $100 million, then you die. Okay. Well, cool. That's not going to be subject to the estate tax. The problem there is the tax rate on that is going to be substantial because your beneficiaries will not get a stepped up in cost basis. Okay. Versus if you own the asset in your estate, they will get a step up cost basis. So there's a way it's called an idget through this section 675 is let's say you own a $2 million house and a $2 million vacation house and then a bunch of other crud. Okay. And it's worth $10 million bucks. And you don't think it's going to appreciate very much. Okay. And then you own, let's say that's worth 10 million or 15 million,

Starting point is 00:32:29 you own $15 million of Bitcoin. Right now, you can throw your Bitcoin inside of your trust, okay, that has this swap powers. Right before you kick the bucket, you can swap out that Bitcoin with the assets that haven't appreciated as much. Okay, now they have to be like, kind, and similar value. But you can move the Bitcoin out of the trust and move it into your estate and move your houses out of your estate and throw it into the trust. Now, you kick the bucket and your kids get a stepped up cost basis on the thing that's appreciated a lot between now and then. They don't get a cost basis on your house that hasn't appreciated as much. So it's things like that. Again, it's not much of an issue for most people considering how high the exemption is right now. But if you think

Starting point is 00:33:12 that Bitcoin's going to go up a ton and you hold a lot of it, it's setting up at a state in a way that's proactive that can make a lot of sense. Otherwise, if you already have any irrevocable trust in place, then you have to go rewrite this to have these swap power. in place, well, one, you probably can't because it's irrevocable. And if you can, if you have a rule your attorney, you can figure out a way to rewrite it, it's going to cost a lot of money. But yeah, little things like that from an estate perspective. So what applies to most people is make sure your kids are taking care of. What applies to very few, but can be very expensive lesson is make sure your state has the proper powers in place.

Starting point is 00:33:43 So a person who's listening to this that, let's say their net worth is a hundred thousand. They're listening to some of this and saying, all right, I don't have to do all that because I'm not at that level yet. What advice do you have for the person? And I think this is important because four years from now, they could be at a million plus in net worth. So what type of foresight or advice do you have for that type of person that might be listening to this that they can do?

Starting point is 00:34:06 It's not a whole lot of effort, but it's something that's really important to set themselves up early before some of those massive capital gains could happen for them in the coming decade. Yeah. I mean, go get a revocable trust set up in place. it's going to be a lot more flexible for you. Obviously, have things in mind as far as medical POA and your things set up for your kids. But I would probably just go with a evocable trust.

Starting point is 00:34:32 And we're going to assume that you're going to be under the exclusion amount for your estate. So you shouldn't have to worry about estate taxes. If, you know, ideally you kick the bucket and your beneficiary is going to step up in cost basis on the full amount. That's the goal. Yeah, I wouldn't, don't overcomplicate it. There's a lot of people out there who make estate. sound like it needs to be a lot fancierge than it has to be. I know what I talked about a minute ago as far as the swap powers and everything, that's getting in the weeds, but that's

Starting point is 00:34:58 if you have a lot of money. You know, if you've got net worth of 100,000 or even quote unquote just a million bucks, then I would, unless you have some weird thing going on, I would probably just settle with a revocable trust and call today. All right. I'm curious your thoughts on all the new stable coin legislation, the big, too big to fail banks wanting to play in this space. the policy changes that are on, I saw that SEC, the new SEC director is pretty hardcore Bitcoiner. What are your thoughts in this domain moving forward? And I'm kind of curious the conversations that maybe you're having with your clients with respect to some of just these ideas in general. So one of my favorite comments, a client's given me in regards to Bitcoin,

Starting point is 00:35:39 and this goes back earlier about educating our clients. So a few months ago, new family working with for probably about 10 months, didn't really like Bitcoin at first. We talked through it, I had them read, husband and wife each read the Bitcoin standard and lots of conversations. Probably about two months ago, out of nowhere, the husband calls and says, hey, Jim, as I really start to understand this, if Bitcoin does what you think it does, and what I'm starting to realize it will probably do, then it'll probably get rid of the Federal Reserve. It's like, now you get it. You have been reading.

Starting point is 00:36:08 Yeah, exactly. So it's funny because he didn't process that. I said, yeah, it's sort of the goal in all of this in a lot of senses. So I think once you, that goes back to like M2 and looking at charts and technical analysis. Like I would say zoom out and look at the narrative. And like when we look at the narrative in general, the fact that we're having conversations that politicians are having conversations about Bitcoin and a regular cadence is pretty astonishing.

Starting point is 00:36:36 It's crazy. It seems like the sentiment right now seems that everyone's sort of forgotten that we have a strategic Bitcoin reserve. Like, that's no longer like hope for or in theory, that's in place now. Yeah. And that seems like old news and we've discounted that. We've probably discounted that a little bit too much now. I mean, we don't know how many coins are in there. That audit hasn't been completed, right?

Starting point is 00:37:00 But yeah, we have it. I'm very curious to know what is actually on the U.S. You know, federal government's books. But that's a whole other conversation. I guess where I was going with the question a little bit more is, you know, There's a big debate right now whether the, you know, they're backing every one of these stable coins with treasuries. Those treasuries are kicking off coupons.

Starting point is 00:37:23 And right now, based on the policy, the way that it looks like it's going to get, you know, sent through Congress is that these banks are not going to be allowed to pay out any of those coupons or any of that interest to the people that are holding the coins. This, in my opinion, is a little bit controversial because I think from an international level, you are going to have stable coin issuers that are outside the U.S. that are going to pay out a portion of these coupons and a portion of this interest to the holders, which then creates this like competitive landscape. So I'm just kind of curious if you have any thoughts on that, thoughts on just like a savings account moving forward. Because think of it. If let's just say you're in some other country and they're paying out some of these coupons to the holders, this changes the whole dynamic of fractional reserve banking, interest yields that are paid to people that are putting their money on deposit, these banks that are then being lent out, and you're getting paid a pittance for what could be the yield on some of these products. So I'm just kind of curious where you see some of this going, or

Starting point is 00:38:26 just in general, just some of the policy that's currently happening on a global scale, because you're effectively taking what is this fractional reserve scheme where all the participants and users aren't really getting any type of yield that they really deserve for the risk. And you're pivoting to this fully backed system that the users now should be getting a much larger portion of the yield if they, you know, if the policies and the laws allow it. Yeah. Even hunting on like looking at money market funds and cash positions, maybe, maybe without cause, but I hold a lot of skepticism there. Like, it's concerning a few unpack what's inside a lot of cash equivalent investments, the types of exposures and risks that

Starting point is 00:39:14 you're taking. So, yeah, a lot of people don't know what to look for. You know, you look in a money market fund, you're going to assume that it's going to be AAA U.S. debt, shorter duration, but a lot of times, they can hold products that have a lot more risks than you think's going to be in there. So hopefully, I'm hoping that this will bring about a little more clarity, but I'm doubtful. I mean, the average person doesn't know what to look for. They don't know what duration risk is. They don't know what credit risk is. Oh, it's, it's U.S. debt, but if you really impact me, go back to the big short, you know, we think that we're holding U.S.-based debt, but in reality, we're holding like be-rated mortgage-backed security, something like that. Yeah. So hopefully,

Starting point is 00:39:53 ultimately, this will lead to a little bit more transparency, but frankly, I'm doubtful that it actually happens. Yeah. I just don't know what to think. I just, I can see the conversations that are happening on the hill and it doesn't seem like the banks want it to be that way. They want to be able to pay out some of that interest. But I think policymakers and people that kind of understand the power that this is going to unlock or what it's going to unlock is just going to accelerate everything if they start allowing some of those coupon payments to get transmuted into additional interest income for anybody that's sitting on a stable coin. Because at the end of the day, I always look back at the whole Silicon Valley Bank thing as a perfect example of you could have had $2 million on deposit at Silicon Valley Bank.

Starting point is 00:40:42 And that weekend, you didn't know whether you were going to get the $2 million or you were going to get your FDIC check for your $2 million that was on deposit and only get a small sliver of that. Whereas if you held, some people will roll their eyes at this, but I'm clearly not. If you had $2 million worth a tether and you went that weekend, you weren't concerned. circle or whatever that was fully back, you weren't concerned whether it was there or not, because you knew it was actually backed. The other one was just made up fictional numbers with an insurance policy for one-fourth of what was actually on deposit, as an example. So, I just, I don't know there's such a massive shift that's happening through the tokenization of sovereign debt, that it's fully backed, that's fully reserved. And when you look at the profit margins of

Starting point is 00:41:30 these companies that are doing this, they're on par with the biggest banks on Wall Street that are playing a fractional reserve game that aren't fully reserved. So the competition just seems to be heating up and I think it's only going to intensify like a lot in the coming couple years. Yeah. Again, I would argue, though, that the issue is the perception of risk. You know, most people want a traditional bank that's a go-to question is, is it FDIC insured? And- Yeah, but if you're squatting on over that, if you're Silicon Valley Bank is an example, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but there was somebody with like 50 or $100 million on deposit in cash at Silicon Valley Bank. I forget which company it was, right?

Starting point is 00:42:11 They almost lost all of that if Janet Yellen didn't decide through the stroke of a pen that it was all safe, quote unquote, safe, right? So I don't know if you're a company with substantial work in capital and we're moving into a world where we have more of these types of blowups or these bank failures, why in the world would some? somebody want to have that on deposit there versus having something that is actually backed by a real bond? Because it's familiar. It's more comfortable to be wrong, but status quo, then go out of limb and be a little bit

Starting point is 00:42:43 different, even if what's different. If you pull, if you really start digging into things, it seems a little bit more safe. I think it's similar to Bitcoin. If you're really into Bitcoin, you're probably think a little bit different. And you're betting on the fact that you're an outlier, but you're okay with that because you understand something versus the perception of Bitcoin. is it's risky and you'd rather not own it. And if you do own some, then you're obscure. And it's a lot easier to go and own VTI or VO or something like that and nominally lose,

Starting point is 00:43:12 or in real returns, lose purchasing power compared to Bitcoin, but at least you're wrong with everyone else. I think that's going to go the same way with banks and everything else. Like just disrupting status goes really tough. Yeah, it's getting wild. I can only imagine four or five years from now where some of this is going to be. I just think it's going to be Crazy. I think it's going to be totally nuts. One of the things I really respect about you, Jim, is you talk about all of this stuff that we've been talking about. And it's a fun conversation who doesn't like to try to figure out what the most valuable thing they can own or whatever is. But you go beyond this. You often talk about the impact of higher considerations beyond just money itself and time, you know, lifestyle, flexibility, things like that, the qualitative pieces of quote unquote investing. Give us some high signal takes on this particular topic of what's actually important. Yeah. So I've been reading through gradually, then suddenly, in that exact manner.

Starting point is 00:44:10 I'm still in the gradually phase. I think I'll hit the suddenly phase here soon. I've been working out for about 15 months, I think. But Parker, I think sort of more eloquently states what I preach all the time. He says that it does not eliminate conception or investment, Bitcoin being it. It merely ensures that the decision is evaluated with greater scrutiny when future purchasing power is expected to increase. You know, I see that all the time. I see, I saw someone on Twitter last night saying how they have a saving problem. Because every time they go online to look a vacation, they end up just buying Bitcoin instead.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Or they want to go do something they buy Bitcoin instead, which, you know, can be good. Like, I'm all for saving for the future and delaying gratification. But you also get to a place of really weighing the opportunity cost of the, these things. Now, I think that Bitcoin actually evens the scales some here. You know, if your money is broken, then your incentive I just go spend. Might as well. You have this nihilistic view on life and money. I think that's where a lot of like Gen Zs are. That's why they're so into like mean coins and junk is they feel there's no way out. Might as well either blow your money or just put on something that might go big. And if it does, that's cool. And if it doesn't,

Starting point is 00:45:20 oh, well, at least it was ironic or something. Yeah. There's just nihilism versus having good money again really causes you to pause and say, hey, is it more important that I do this thing or that can do this thing times five in just a few years? And you can lean too far in either direction. You know, as you're aware, I have lots of young kids. And like next month and two months, Kenra and I were about to spend a couple weeks in Italy, just us too. We've been talking about going to Italy since before we were dating. And yeah, that trip, that could be more Bitcoin. But it could also be in 30 years, we look back and we've done. just never did it. But man, at least we have a quarter of a more of a Bitcoin. What's the

Starting point is 00:46:00 opportunity cost there? Or our kids, we're going to go, we're going to spend a week in the mountains and a week at the beach. And I could say, you know what, kids, we're going to save more Bitcoin. But there gets to a place of one day they're going to look back. And it's like, well, I never did anything. What about our time together? And I think that we need to consider those in the proper framework. Yeah. I think as Parker mentions there, I think that it allows you to view it more in a healthy manner and really consider the tradeoffs and not over emphasizing money itself, but viewing it as a tool. And it is your money actually being allocated to what's important to you. And hopefully, that will allow you to step out of the things that are just

Starting point is 00:46:33 arbitrary and not important, where you can actually lean into the things that are important. When we look at just kind of the global landscape and you look how competitive everything is, there's not a lot of margin for people to save. There's not a lot of excess. You know, you make a certain amount. You're incentivized, like you had mentioned earlier, two. to spend because it becomes more worthless, and especially if you don't understand Bitcoin to preserve any type of excess profits that you have as an individual. And when you talk about this idea of nihilistic behavior of gambling on a mean coin or whatever, I think that so much of that comes down to people don't have profits to say,

Starting point is 00:47:16 to meaningfully save for something. And so it's just, it's almost like a lottery ticket. Like, I don't really have any capacity to save. So I'm going to go buy this lottery ticket and that's the end of it. So, you know, I think so much of it is just the function of the times and how insanely competitive this Fiat scheme and game has has wired everybody to act this way through the incentives. I'm curious if you disagree or agree with that. But yeah, it's really hard. And I hate kind of pointing at this group or the other saying they're just bad or they're not.

Starting point is 00:47:51 I think it's the incentives. I think so much of this is just rewired society that has led them down this just corrupted path. Yeah. Unfortunately, I see that pretty often. I'll, on a very regular basis, we'll have people schedule 15 minutes on my calendar and we'll just talk for a minute. And I find out that like, I'm underwater each month. I just maxed out another credit card. Like, you know, we're living in a trailer.

Starting point is 00:48:14 Things are looking bad. And I want to get out of this, but I don't know how. And like, I tell them, like, look, you should not pay me to help you with this. That's going to dig you further in. You're already behind. So what we typically do for those people is like, we'll send them a copy of Dave Ramsey's Financial Peach University and the workbook. And it's like, look, if you can figure it out, like somehow live underneath your expenses,

Starting point is 00:48:34 increase your income, do something there. And I'll also send them a copy of the Bitcoin standard. Like, all right, this will help short term rethink how just to use your money. And then this other will help you big picture rethink what is money. And if we can address those two things and you can steward well what you do have, You know, if you can keep those up as a habit, then hope that should make a difference. Are those people, Jim, are those people coming to you because they've found Bitcoin and they're wanting to just do investing with their excess? Well, they're telling you they don't have excess capital.

Starting point is 00:49:06 Or is this just the person who's coming to you and it's like, I need help. Yeah. It's generally like, I just, I need help. Yeah. They don't, it's sad because they don't know where to go. And frankly, it's like they don't have money to invest. Yeah. Like, well, how do you free up any money?

Starting point is 00:49:19 So that's where the Dave Ramsey side of things come in. And we can argue if Dave Ramsey is the best source of vice or not. But again, just change the narrative of like, you have to figure out a way to stop spending so much or increase your income. I mean, I never want to get out of touch with that to a place where I feel removed. And I see it a lot with financial planners is only working with all China worth people. And suddenly someone with only $100,000, it's not worth their time. It's like, dude, that might only be a very small fraction of your investment or amount that you manage. That's everything to that person.

Starting point is 00:49:52 That represents a lifetime of delayed gratification. That represents their hopes of retiring, a hope of a trip with their grandkids one day. That's super important. And I cannot lose sight of that. When Kendra and I were first married, we, 2013, I believe our household gross income was 13 grand. And I was fortunate enough, I think before I got out of high school, my parents, I went through Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, like probably like five times before I was out of school.

Starting point is 00:50:18 So having that basis of identifying. what's important to you, how do you make sure that you're at least paying your bills? Even if it means like, we go to the grocery store and it was like, if they didn't have meat, they were going to throw away that day so we'd get it for super cheap, I guess we're just going to eat a lot of lentils again this week. And that stinks. I can't imagine being there now with four kids. But sometimes it's like, dude, do the hard work. Are we looking at you between now and the next couple of days or are you trying to look, zoom out and think generationally? Yeah. And that's easier said than done. But again, if I would assume most of your listeners

Starting point is 00:50:46 are going to be in the U.S., and just starting off with that, the privilege that you have, compared to someone living in India. Don't neglect that. Don't let it go to waste. I don't want to sound like you're not doing enough. But zoom out and try to think through this generationally, like is there anything else you could be doing? And again, I'm not saying going back to the other conversation,

Starting point is 00:51:04 don't lean where money is the most important thing. Money is simply a tool to help you do what's important to you. I just want to make sure that you're equipped with the tools so you can do those things. All right. Final piece of advice. Let's talk about taxes. Tax planning advice. What is a home run?

Starting point is 00:51:20 easy thing that a person can implement that most overlook when it comes to tax planning. Well, Bitcoin at the moment is not subject to the watch sale rules. So if you have any Bitcoin that you bought at $100,000 and you want to reduce your cap gains about this year, like you could sell some of that and immediately rebuy your Bitcoin and get a stepped up or rebuy your Bitcoin. There's no, like 30 day, you got to wait to rebuy it, period. You can just buy it. Correct.

Starting point is 00:51:47 Okay. So as things sit right now, you can sell it and rebuy it immediately. you're not subject to those rules that you would otherwise be. Like, if you own Bitcoin, that's another thought there. If you own Bitcoin directly, you can do it. If you own Bitcoin inside of a wrapper of an ETF, then that ETF is subject to the wash sale rules. So you wouldn't consider that.

Starting point is 00:52:03 I mean, on the other hand, I don't think it's spoken to enough is washing gains. I did that a few years ago. So in 2021, I started this company and I had no income. Kendra and I devoted a year of not taking a salary at all. So that year, heck, I sold a lot of stuff. So if you have no income, you can sell your Bitcoin and immediately purchase it again, you realize that cap gain, but maybe your cap gain rate's zero. Or maybe it's 15% this year.

Starting point is 00:52:28 It's normally a 23.8. So even washing gains can be helpful. There's that. I mean, the go-toes would be instead of giving dollars, giving assets, and then combining that with what's called bunching. So easy way to do this would be to if normally you give to charities and other things, you're going to have about $30,000 of deductions. that's right in line with the standard deduction this year.

Starting point is 00:52:51 So instead of each year giving 30 grand to a charity, maybe this year you give 90 grand, and then the next two years you take the standard deduction. Again, assuming the standard deduction stays where it's at, we'll see what happens with the TCGA and everything there with tax laws. But by doing that, you're able to take an extra $60,000 of tax deductions this year by doing that. You know, it can be scary to give that much money in one year to a charity. So you can do that by giving to a donor advice fund and then directing the donor

Starting point is 00:53:17 Advise Fund to give to the charities. Also, your church might not accept Bitcoin or your charity might not accept Bitcoin, but a lot of donor advice funds can. So, instead of selling the Bitcoin and giving the dollars, give the Bitcoin, not realize the cap gain. They sell it. They don't realize a cap gain. And there you go.

Starting point is 00:53:35 You can rent and repeat. Take the cash that you otherwise we're going to give and repurchase Bitcoin with that cash. You just stepped up your cost basis. So you're able to give more, get less to Uncle Sam. Step up your cost basis. Maybe your cost basis on that was 20 grand, and you give it, you buy more at 90. Now, and then one day you sell it at 120. Well, then you went from a $100,000 cap gain to a $30,000 cap gain by washing and

Starting point is 00:53:58 stepping over cost basis through that gift. Wow. That's a little one. That's a big one. That's a big one. Yeah. That's so easy too. It's low hanging fruit.

Starting point is 00:54:07 Yeah. Another one like Kendra and I will do. So we, how was in a, was it Bloomberg or someone, a few months ago, I woke up to like a ton of text and stuff. I was on some other like Tradfai podcast mentioned this article because I think it was Bloomberg said that there's, oh, a CFP who doesn't use 529s and he only buys Bitcoin for his kids. And some Tradfai podcast like, who would hire this financial planner? He's a moron.

Starting point is 00:54:31 That was me. And I'll wear it with pride. But so Kendra and I, we don't have 529s for our kids. We just own Bitcoin for them. Now, we don't own that inside of like a UTMA product. Those aren't, as far as I'm aware, those aren't available right now. Hopefully someone's working on it. So right now, Kendra and I, we own Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:54:46 for our kids. It's legally ours, but we'll gift it to them one day. So something we could do is if we feel they're responsible at 18 and we want to give it to them, but we can. If they're knuckleheads at 18 and they definitely shouldn't have that much money, we don't have to give it to them. But let's stay at 18, they're responsible and they want to use that money to start a business. Well, instead of us selling the Bitcoin and then giving the cash, chances are at 18, they're going to be in a much lower tax bracket than we are. So give them the asset and allow then to sell it. I mean, there's little things like that you can work in pretty easily that unfortunately, people are too quick to sell so they can give cash, be it to charities or family

Starting point is 00:55:23 or whoever. Yeah, people banging you up for the idea. You should just ask them what the return profile is of their kids 529 versus the approach that you've gotten to compare returns, right? I mean, it's all numeric. Yeah, that's right. It's like, well, what about, well, it's tax free is for qualified expenses. It's like, okay, well, even on a tax adjusted basis, who winning right now. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, Jim. I love chatting with you. Thank you so much for the amazing insights. If people want to learn more about you or what you're doing, where can they look? Go to our website. It's Intentional Living FP as in financial planning. So Intentional LivingFP.com. On there, there's my calendar for 15 minutes. If you want to throw a time on there, if you have

Starting point is 00:56:05 an arbitrary one-off question, more than happy to answer that or if you want to talk and see if we can help, then I would love to do that as well. All right. All right, Jim. Until next time, Appreciate it and always a pleasure. Yeah, thanks, Preston. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to follow Bitcoin Fundamentals on your favorite podcast app and never miss out on episodes. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only, before making any decision consult a professional.

Starting point is 00:56:39 This show is copyrighted by the Investors Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndic. or reproadcasting.

We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - BTC232: Bitcoin Allocation in a Changing Monetary Standard w/ Jim Crider (Bitcoin Podcast)

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.