We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - TIP 031 : My Interview with Warren Buffett and other Billionaires - with Gillian Zoe Segal (Investing Podcast)

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is episode 31 of The Investors Podcast. Broadcasting from Bel Air, Maryland. This is The Investors Podcast. They'll read the books and summarize the lessons. They'll test the waters and tell you when it's cold. They'll give you actionable investing strategies. Your host, Preston Pish and Sting Broderson. Hey, hey, hey, how's everybody doing today?

Starting point is 00:00:29 This is Preston Pish, and I'm your host for The Investors Podcast. And as usual, I am accompanied by my co-host, Stig Broderson, out in Denmark. And I'll tell you what, folks, we have got the coolest interview for you today because our guest is a person who went and interviewed 30 different people. And let me just give you some names of some of these people that she's interviewed. She has interviewed Warren Buffett. She has interviewed Kathy Ireland. She has interviewed Anderson Cooper. She's interviewed Jim Koch, who founded Samuel Adams.

Starting point is 00:01:02 She's interviewed Michael Bloomberg, and I could keep going on and on and on. I mean, what kind of access you're going to get today to hear about these interviews from these people? It's just phenomenal. And so what she did is she interviewed 30 different people that are just enormous successes in all these different fields. And then she wrote a book, and the name of the book is getting there. It just came out this past week. And she summarized all these interviews, and each interview is about six pages in the book. and so her name is Jillian Zoe Siegel,

Starting point is 00:01:32 and she's here today to talk about all these different interviews that she had with these people. So without further delay, we're going to go ahead. And Jillian, did you have anything that you wanted to add or highlight about the book that maybe I missed? No, you did a great job. All right, perfect. So this is just, I can't stress it enough, folks.

Starting point is 00:01:53 The information you're going to get out of this is just fantastic because she just got the behind-the-scenes app. access. And really the point of the book, this is the thing that I really want to highlight, is that she talks about the idea that the path to success isn't necessarily what a lot of people think that it is. People would think that a person like Michael Bloomberg just, you know, he came from maybe a wealthy background and all these people just naturally had this stuff handed over to them. But what she debunks in this book is she talks about that struggle and those stories for each of these people and how they broke through and the things that they did

Starting point is 00:02:26 to go from just being a nobody to being, you know, a billionaire or whatever the case might be for each one of them. And so that was what was really amazing about the book is she talks about those points, those things that they had to do in order to break through. So without further delay, we're going to go ahead and kick this off. And I'm going to take the first question stick. So the first one that we got here is we're going to start off with discussing Warren Buffett. So in your book, one of your main points that Warren Buffett made during your interview was it really fun interviewing him, by the way was it it was it was incredible to interview him i mean he he um he's amazing when you can view him from a distance but there's something really powerful about you know being in his presence and um and being in his really down-to-earth office you you know you wouldn't believe how uh how

Starting point is 00:03:20 i guess down to earth it is well no let's talk about that yeah let's talk about it so you know No, it's really cool. I didn't say this in the introduction was Jillian took all the pictures of each of the people that she interviewed. So she actually has a picture of Warren Buffett sitting on his desk in the book. Yes. So one of the things that I noticed in that picture, first and foremost, he has like this tray that's right there on his desk and it says the too hard bin or it says too hard. And I just found that hilarious. Was there anything else that you saw when you were in his office that was just really kind of unique?

Starting point is 00:03:54 Something really unique these days. And you might not be able to notice because he's sitting on his desk. But behind him, there is no computer. That is. Come on. There's no computer. He doesn't do that. So, I mean, is he just reading the Wall Street Journal?

Starting point is 00:04:12 I mean, did you guys talk about that at all? Or was it just something that you kind of noticed and were kind of floored by? You know, it was something that I noticed. It was something that I had heard. And so I didn't bring it up. I mean, I did. But, and you know what? It was about five years ago, because it took me five years to do this book anyway.

Starting point is 00:04:35 But it was about five years ago that I, that I was in his office last. And so I don't know if he uses one. I think he uses a computer to play bridge. But that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we know he's a big bridge fan. I didn't know that he didn't even have a computer there on his desk, though.

Starting point is 00:04:54 Yeah. Now, does he have a TV in there? Is he watching TV? You know, I don't remember. I bet there might be, you know what? I don't remember if there was a TV or not. It's like, it's a, you know, a big corner office, but it's not fancy in a lot of ways. Compared to some of the other people you interviewed.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Compared to Leslie Moonvest's office. Yeah, but it's just one floor, isn't it? like the headquarters of Birchia Holloway. Is that true? Actually, I think I was only on one floor, but I think there is another floor where there's conferences, but, you know, like conference rooms and stuff, because I remember them talking about something,

Starting point is 00:05:40 about, you know, photographers setting up or something. But I was scheduled for 10 to 15 minutes with him. So as soon as I walked in there, I had my camera, you know, at my eye. Because I didn't want to waste any time. And, you know, really that is way too little time for the kind of interview I wanted to do. And luckily, we ended up spending about an hour together. And so I got all the information in the book.

Starting point is 00:06:12 Wow. So he gave you a full hour. That's amazing. Yeah. He is a great guy. And, you know, I got to ask him everything I wanted to ask him, except about the computer. that's really funny. You know, it's funny.

Starting point is 00:06:28 And his shareholder letters, at the end of his shareholder letters, he always, in a passive-aggressive way, he brags about how small his headquarters is. What is it? It's like 30 or 40 people, Stig? I can't remember. Yeah, this is about right. It's not more.

Starting point is 00:06:41 You wouldn't believe that it's one of the biggest company in the U.S., right? When you're looking from it, from the outside at least. I don't know about the inside. Absolutely not. I actually just recently went to Bloomberg's headquarters. Yeah, yeah. That is like, you know, out of, out of a science fiction movie. Like, you're surprised anyone's walking.

Starting point is 00:07:01 You'd expect they should all be on segways or something. No, that's a great point because you look at Berkshire. I'm pretty sure their market caps over $300 billion. So when you think of that, their market caps over a $300 billion company. And they've got like 30 or 40 people working in the headquarters and that's it. I mean, that's just mind blowing. It's just insane. It is. I think that, I think, you know, he keeps it simple.

Starting point is 00:07:29 And I think, and he speaks about this in the essay. He is a big delegator, but he really pays close attention to the people he delegates to. And he's a great judge of character, if I don't say so myself. I like that. You're so smooth. You know, that gets to the question I was actually going to ask was what you're hitting on here. So let me just read this question here. I have it written down. I say in your book, one of your main points that Warren Buffett made during the interview was that most people go through life using up a very small part of their potential.

Starting point is 00:08:04 He said that the people that function best were the ones that were efficient opposed to the ones with the biggest engines. So based on your interview, how do you think that became so efficient? How do you think he finds these people that are so efficient? What is he really looking for that describes that? Well, I think that he has, he had just, you know, has great. intuition. And he finds people who he trusts, I think. And he is such a remarkable person that I think he makes everyone want to make him proud. Like, everybody cares what he thinks because you can't not. Yeah. So I think that it works both ways, that people feel good,

Starting point is 00:08:49 probably that he that he trust them and gives them responsibility and they don't want to let him down. Yeah. And he says something in, in my interview with him, he says it's important to realize that other people are going to make mistakes and he's made mistakes. And with his managers, he just has to decide whether they know what they're doing overall or not. You know, I really like that point because I see so many leaders have this Z.

Starting point is 00:09:19 zero defect environment that they try to, no one can make a mistake. And if you make a mistake, you're done. I mean, you really see that a lot in large organizations, robust organizations, that there's this zero defect environment. And I think that you're actually setting a standard for people to lie to you, for people to tell you whatever in the world it is that you want to hear, opposed to what the truth actually is. And so when you see somebody like Buffett sitting up there at the very top of such a large

Starting point is 00:09:47 organization and he's saying, you're going to make. mistakes. And when you do come and tell me, we'll work through it, we'll figure it out. I mean, that's really what you're getting at. And it's amazing that more people don't adopt that. It's, it's just crazy to me. But yeah, he says in, in his, in the interview, he said, I'm not big on blame. And by other people's standards, I'm probably quite tolerant of our manager's mistakes. Like he doesn't want to blame people because he knows he makes mistakes too. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think he has other options. Like he wants to run a really small operation and I think it's almost impossible if he has to micromanage. I can't remember how many thousands of tens of thousands

Starting point is 00:10:26 of people he's employing. So if he wants to have this very, very small operations, I mean, he needs to trust people, right? So it's kind of out of the successity, but I also think it's, it's the way that he looks at a business, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, his, his, his direct companies that he owns, operationally owns, I want to say as close to 70 businesses. I mean, that's just crazy when you think about it. And then you're not even talking about the non-operational subsidiaries like Coke and, you know, IBM and some of those other ones that he's, you know, he's actively involved in, but he's not, you know, managing because it's just a passive role. As you can hear, Gillian, we really geeks about Ron Buffett, you know.

Starting point is 00:11:08 We know all the, all the Ninnoyd facts. I'm with you. Yeah. That's good. Because, you know, originally we was actually going to. interview you about Warren Buffett and now we're just jabbing. Yeah, we're talking about what we know. Yeah, it's it's it's a bad job here. I like hearing this.

Starting point is 00:11:29 Okay, let's let's take the next question. So I once read a story about Warren Buffett and he was emphasizing the importance of learning to ask the right questions. So he tells a story about a person standing next to a dog and a stranger. The stranger asks the person, Does your dog bite? The person said, no. So the stranger reached down and pitted the dog and the dog bit him. Alamed the stranger said, I thought you said the dog doesn't bite.

Starting point is 00:11:58 So the man said, well, that's not my dog. So, Jillian, you interviewed 30 of the most successful people in the world. And very few of us could you only dream to have access to these people. So how do you come up with the questions that you, had to ask them. What's the process for preparing for the interview? Here's what I did. You know, I looked everybody up and I prepared as well as I could. But really, I think when you're, if all I would ask them about was the stuff that was already out there, what good would that do? So I looked them up to know as much as I could, but then I

Starting point is 00:12:44 made sure to ask open-ended questions so I could learn new material. And I think that's something people have to do in life. You know, you've got to not always talk about yourself and just listen to others because you get some great things when you do that. Absolutely. Okay, so I got a question off the cuff here. So one of the people that you interviewed was Sarah Blake. who's the billionaire that founded Spanx. And I recently saw that you wrote an article how you landed your interview with Warren Buffett

Starting point is 00:13:22 based on some of the advice that Sarah gave you. So can you talk to our audience a little bit about that? All right. Well, first of all, Sarah Blakely is incredible. She wanted to be a lawyer her whole life. And, you know, her whole life was geared toward that. Her father was a trial lawyer. And that's just what she wanted to do.

Starting point is 00:13:43 she knew she was going to do that then she bombed the law school admissions test twice she you know the first time she studied picked herself off the floor took it again she did one point worse than she than she did the first time so she was not feeling too great she ended up getting a ride um i mean getting a job loading rides at disney's epcot center wow yeah and then she spent eight years working for a company that sold fax machines door to door. And it was during that period that she had her, you know, aha moment. And she was trying on a pair of white pants and she thought that it would look better if she had some kind of controlled top panty hose underneath.

Starting point is 00:14:29 The only problem was they didn't make those without the feet. So she just wanted the top. So she invented something called Spanx, which is basically footless controlled top. pantyhose. It's evolved into a lot of different things since then. It's a shapewear company, but it's every single lady knows what this is. And every single man has been, has been out with a lady wearing spanks, unbeknownst to him. Every man has benefited from them. Yes. Anyway, so, so Sarah is such a gutsy person. Like, you know, she's, she started her company. with her, you know, with her guts, basically.

Starting point is 00:15:14 And she, she, it was hard for her to even get a prototype of Spanx made. She would kind of camp out at the mill owners in their waiting areas because nobody would even take her call. And, and then when she finally got her prototype made, she convinced the buyer at Neiman Marcus to order her product by taking the buyer into the bathroom. and showing them what her butt looked like with and without spanks. So in her white, in her white pants.

Starting point is 00:15:47 But she went on, I mean, it was totally off the cuff from reading this in the book. It was amazing because you talk about how hard it was to get into one of these interviews. But then she just had this opportunity where she had a buyer and she just takes them into the bathroom. And it was just like so off the cuff. And she pulled off the move of all moves. It was just like life changing, you know.

Starting point is 00:16:08 Yes. So, So I was really, you know, impressed with her and inspired by her. And I was at an event that Warren Buffett was at. And I wanted to approach him to be in getting there, to be in my book. And I'd already been rejected by his office once. So it was a little bit, you know, uncomfortable to go up to him. And it wasn't even like we were supposed to go up to him and all of that. So of course, I was nervous. But I thought to my. myself, Sarah Blakely would do it. She would not let this opportunity pass. And I just knew if I didn't do it, I wouldn't want to face her again. And I also would feel so bad about myself. So, you know, the least I had to do was asked. So I went up and I asked him really quickly. And basically he just said, you know, get in touch with my office. So I had to send all of the information in, you know, what the book was and everything. And I got in that way. So this is a story of persistence. You know, if there's one thing to

Starting point is 00:17:16 take away from the first story with Sarah Blakely and then the story with Gillian getting the interview with Warren is it's all about being persistence. You heard her say. I already asked and I was denied. Well, so 99% of the people out there would say, well, he's inaccessible. I can not get an interview with Warren Buffett because I tried. I asked and they said no. But you know what? You just kept at it. And I think that that's the biggest key. And I think, you know, when you go through all the interviews in your book, that's one of the main themes that I saw was these people are persistent. They don't, they do not take no for an answer. They just keep at it. And it's, you know, it's a fantastic point. And it's really representative of yourself as well, Jillian. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:17:59 you know what if I had to say one you know theme or one characteristic that everybody in the book has it's that it's the resilience like they get knocked down they get back up they get knocked down again they get back up and if you keep doing that enough times one of your things is going to pay off you know one of one of your ideas one of your efforts whatever it is you just have to be resilient and you know You have to know that, you know, failure is just part of the process. And Kathy Ireland has a quote, which I just love. She says, you know, if you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough. And it's just good to remember that when you fail.

Starting point is 00:18:47 No, absolutely. Just to think, okay, I'm doing my job. I'm doing what I should. Yeah. But what about you, Jillian? Like, were you so determined that you want to have Warren Buffett in the book that you was just keep on trying until he got him on the burger. What was your strategy for that, actually?

Starting point is 00:19:04 How long can you do this? You know, here's the thing. You have to make a balance between being persistent, but you also have to be polite and you also have to have, you know, a monitor. So if you get a real no from somebody from the real decision maker, you know, that's not one of the gaykeepers. Exactly. then you might take it as a no.

Starting point is 00:19:30 You might wait a while, then try again. But you don't want to be an annoying person. And that's, you know, that's something you've got to look out for. But somebody told me very early on in the process, a friend of mine named Steve Cohen, he said, we went to college together. He said, don't take a no from someone who can't give you a yes. And what that means. Oh, I love that.

Starting point is 00:19:56 Isn't that? That is good. Yes. So like if you get a know from somebody's publicist or someone's assistant or whatever, don't really take that so seriously because you don't know whether the real decision maker ever even saw your request. Like we were discussing with Warren Buffett, these people are very busy and they have to delegate. So some people screen requests for them. And it's not a scientific process. They might screen out a request that the decision maker would have said yes to.

Starting point is 00:20:31 So I always say, you know, like if you can't get in the front door, try the back door. If that's locked, try the side door. And if that's locked, try climbing in a window. If you can't do that, then try the front door again because someone might answer this time. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. right, I want you guys to imagine spending three days in Oslo at the height of the summer. You've got long days of daylight, incredible food, floating saunas on the Oslo Fjord, and every conversation you have is with people who are actually shaping the future. That's what the Oslo

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Starting point is 00:24:42 Sign up for your business. $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash WSB. Go to Shopify.com slash WSB. That's Shopify.com slash WSB. All right. Back to the show. But the key is there's a lot of ways to get in. And I think that that's what you're really getting at with your analogy is people just

Starting point is 00:25:07 try the front door. And typically that's the hardest one to get in. So, you know, stay persistent and get creative with the way that you're going to approach it. If somebody's publicist says no, try calling their office, try calling a business that they run. You just have to try getting in any way. And then really in the end, you could only lead a horse to water. So you just have to make sure that the horse saw the water. And what I mean by that is you have to make sure that the decision maker really saw your request. And so with a lot of these subjects, I was, you know, rejected so many times when I finally got in.

Starting point is 00:25:46 The person never knew I had even asked before. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't know. That happened with Frank Gary. I was the architect, Frank Gary. I was rejected four times, two times on my own, two times via, you know, someone who knew him. And then one day I just decided, emails are free.

Starting point is 00:26:07 I'll send another one just to, you know, the address, list. did on his website and somehow I got in that way. So, and here's the, here's the real message for the audience because I don't think everybody out there is going to be trying to write a book with, you know, all these different celebrities in it. The key point for you who's listening to this is if, say, there's a job you want to go get or let's say that there's something that you're really desiring and there's these gatekeepers or there's something in your way.

Starting point is 00:26:35 If you're looking for investors, for your business or anything, yeah. Whatever it is. you need to listen to this tale and this story of her persistence to go out and just find these interviews with people that most people, to even get one interview with these people would be, you know, somebody might try one to five times and they wouldn't get it and then they'd just be, the whole book would be done, you know, don't, you've got to stay persistent and you've got to stay consistent. You've got to do the same thing.

Starting point is 00:27:06 You've got to be very systematic in the way you do things. And if you do that time and time again, it's amazing what will come your way and how it will lead you to that goal that you have. So just an incredible story, I think more towards you, Jillian, than anything else to be able to land all this. The good thing is I was doing a book on this very subject. So just every person I met kind of kept me going in the process of making the book. every person I met, you know, John Paul DeGioria, who is the founder of John Paul Mitchell Hair Systems and the Patron Spirits Company, the Tequila Company. He has an incredible story.

Starting point is 00:27:49 Anyway, which we could talk about or not, but everyone, every one of these people kept me going. Yeah. So, Jillian, one of the main goals for writing this book was to figure out whether success was a prerequisite for some people or whether it was an acquired personal sense. skill set like tenacity and strength infused from experiences. So what is your conclusion based on these interviews? Well, my conclusion is that I think you are born with a certain disposition and you're probably born with certain natural strengths and weaknesses.

Starting point is 00:28:25 But if I thought that that was that and your fate was sealed at birth, I wouldn't write an inspirational book like this. I think that I think you're born with the kind of skill set, and then you have to know how to reach your potential from what you're born with. And I think there's a tremendous amount that you can do, you know, that you can learn. So it's like a nature versus nurture question, and I believe in both. And so, you know, Warren Buffett talks about your circle of competence. And he says that you've got to do something that you're passionate about. You have to pursue something you're passionate about.

Starting point is 00:29:11 But you also have to pursue something that is within your circle of competence. And what he means is that no one is good at everything. And you've got to know your strengths and weaknesses and pursue something you're skilled at. He says the most important thing in terms of your circle isn't how large it is, but it's how well you define the perimeter. And if you know where your edges are, you're way better off than someone who has a circle five times as large, but is very fuzzy about the borders. He actually quotes his friend Tom Watson, who's the founder of IBM, who said, I'm no genius, but I'm smart. smart in spots and I stay around those spots. George Soros is real big on saying that as well, where he says that he's very good in knowing

Starting point is 00:30:05 whenever he's wrong. And he attributes most of his success to the fact that he can attribute that. But that's just a side note. And you know, in my book is a good example of this because everyone in my book was selected because they're at the top of their field. But you couldn't interchange them all. You know, so someone, different artists and different, you know, different people, not everyone would do so well if they were in the other person's business. They're all pursuing something that they're passionate about and good at, and that is why they're successful.

Starting point is 00:30:41 So Michael Bloomberg attributes his success to a lot of his success, not all of it, but a lot of his success to being an early riser. So he has a really funny story in your book where he's talking. talking about coffee and tea. And can you tell that story to our audience? Because I think they'll really eat it up. Yes. Okay. Well, one thing that a lot of people don't know was that early in his career, Michael Bloomberg

Starting point is 00:31:06 was fired. He worked for Solomon Brothers and he loved it, loved it, loved it. But after 15 years there, they sold the company. They restructured and he got the booth. And no one came running to give him another job. And so that is why he started his own company. And so that's a great story in and of itself. But while he was starting his company, he wanted some feedback.

Starting point is 00:31:37 So he used to go to the coffee store across from Merrill Lynch's headquarters at six in the morning. And he'd get a coffee with and without milk and he'd get a tea with and without milk. And he'd put them in a tray. and then he would go roaming the halls of Merrill Lynch, looking for an executive who was sitting alone reading the paper. He'd pop his head in the door and he would say, hi, I brought you some coffee. Can I bend your ear?

Starting point is 00:32:06 Because he wanted feedback on his business. And he says, no one's going to kick you out if you brought them a coffee. And then he said, if the person said, I don't drink coffee, he'd say, well, then I have tea. So what I love also about this story, you know, he's also got that chutzpah, the guts, you know, that Sarah Blakely has. It also shows that when you're starting your own business, don't think you're above anything, you know, walk around delivering coffee and tea if you need to to get what you want or to help your business. And so the reason he had the four different kinds of tea and coffee is because, and you talk about this in the book, whenever he'd go in and he'd say, hey, you want a coffee. And the person will say, no, I don't drink coffee.

Starting point is 00:32:58 And he goes, well, I've got a tea. You want tea? And he had every option available. He had it completely mapped out so that there was no way they could back out of the request. With, without milk, everything. He had them all. He had sugars on the side. he was like a little

Starting point is 00:33:14 a mobile coffee shop Hey and just so our audience knows so Jillian lives in Manhattan so you heard a little bit of the noise there in a background but Stig do you got the next question So Jillian this question That's also about Warren Buffett

Starting point is 00:33:30 At least partly So despite all of his wealth It's clear from the interview with Warren Buffett that he's extremely humble And he's rather saying that America has been fortunate to reward him his unique skill set than saying he deserves his wealth from working harder and being better than other people. You also find that Michael Bloomberg gets his drive from people saying what he can and can't do. So all of these questions must have made a great impact on you.

Starting point is 00:33:58 Who has made the biggest impression on you and why? Stig, that's a great question, but a tough one because it's sort of like asking me to pick my favorite child. And I pretty much, I love everyone who's in the book. I pick them all because they're so inspirational and I admire them. But I think it is hard to have Warren Buffett in a book and not really fall for him. But since we've talked about him a lot, I'm going to talk about someone else. And that's Jay Craig Venter. He is a scientist.

Starting point is 00:34:37 And he was the first to sequence the human genome. and what that means, because I didn't really know exactly what that meant before I researched him, reading a genome is basically reading humans' DNA to see what it has to say. And the medical possibilities that this information can lead to are endless. So basically, if you know what genes a certain person has and you understand what that means, you'll know how likely someone is to develop a certain disease. and if they do develop that disease, what you should do, what kind of treatments will respond best to that.

Starting point is 00:35:16 And he has just an incredible story. Number one, every single person listening here benefits from this information. You know, every time you go to the doctor, it's brought a whole new level to the medical profession with what they can see and how they can, help us. Jillian, are they designing just different medicines around the fact that they understand how the, how the DNA is constructed?

Starting point is 00:35:48 Is that what you mean by that? They're doing everything. Like all, everything basically is stemming from this now. It was a big breakthrough, a huge breakthrough for, for diagnosing. You know, it used to be the, a doctor would look at you and take your blood or whatever.

Starting point is 00:36:08 Now they can look at your DNA. It's just another step. Not just your blood. Anyway, so, so you would think that this genius scientist would have been a good student growing up. But he, Craig Venter, his name is Jay Craig Venter, but he goes by Craig. So he slid by high school on a D-minus, literally. He would have failed.

Starting point is 00:36:36 How is that part? I don't even know how that. That's, I just, and that's just crazy to me how somebody could keep going. I don't want to interrupt you. I'm just, I'm floored by that. Yeah. He, he, he, he graduated is that they made him write an extra, um, an extra paper. So they didn't have to see his face again because, um, he used to spend his time sitting in the back throwing spitballs at the teachers.

Starting point is 00:37:03 And he said one of his friends was an actual member of Hell's Angels. he'd been left back so many times. He was way older than Craig, but that's who he hung out with. And then when he graduated, he had no intention of going to college. He moved to Southern California to be a surfer, and his job was putting price tags on toys at Sears at night. Unbelievable. Right? Then the war in Vietnam got in the way of this, and he got drafted.

Starting point is 00:37:37 Before he knew it, he was shipped off to Vietnam. He was in the medical corpsman school. And what he saw there was really overwhelming. He saw hundreds to thousands of people, his own age, dying. Yeah, coming back with limbs and everything imaginable from war, yeah. Everything imaginable. And he didn't really believe in what America was doing there. So it was really tough for him.

Starting point is 00:38:03 He tried to actually commit suicide. he describes this all in the book. And in the middle of his attempt, he realized that he wanted to live. He actually saw a shark. He was trying to drown himself and he saw a shark. Anyway, you'll have to read it in his own words in getting there. But this changed him. And he decided that he wanted to live.

Starting point is 00:38:26 And then he decided that he wanted to help people. He was going to become a doctor. But then he decided mid-process that if he was a scientist, he could help more people. the story goes on and on, you know, just read it. I'd say everyone has to read that story, you know, and how he got to where he was. The path is so crooked. How old was he at this point? Because for me, you know, most people, if they don't start going down that path by, you know, like 25, 30, it's very, the amount of friction involved in achieving what he's achieved is very difficult.

Starting point is 00:39:01 But he sounds like he was kind of at that age. He was maybe in his late 20s when this happened. You know, he'd been out. He'd been out. He'd been in Vietnam. And then after the war, he went back and he started in a community college. He said he had to learn how to learn for the very first time. Because he pretty much, as you could tell by the D-minus, ignored school. You know, he just, he ignored school. But he was a super brilliant person. He just wasn't into school. He actually jokes that he came out of the education system with his cure. curiosity and imagination intact because he avoided the education system. Oh, that's amazing. That's a really cool story there, Jillian. That's fascinating. Yeah, you have to read it.

Starting point is 00:39:51 The thing is, I could talk about any one of these people for, you know, two hours. So I just don't want to spend the whole rest of this podcast. No, you know what? Let's transition into a different person that. Really, there was something that this lady said in your interview that just blew my mind and I really liked it. And her expertise was, she was a very famous artist. Her name is Marina Abramovic. And she had this quote where she had this professor in college whenever she was learning how to be an artist.

Starting point is 00:40:22 And she said, in postgraduate school, I had a special professor who told me something I will never forget. He said, if you draw with your right hand and become so skilled that you can even close your eyes and make any kind of a drawing, immediately changed to your left hand. And then she said, repetition will kill you. Can you explain this conversation to our audience and maybe add some more context to this? Because I found this very, I loved this quote.

Starting point is 00:40:48 This is probably one of my favorite quotes in the whole book. Here's the thing. You know, our world is complete, is always evolving and changing. And that's what's necessary for growth. And if you just kept doing the same thing over and over again, where would we be? We'd be back in the stone ages. So people have to keep doing new things.

Starting point is 00:41:12 And one, the main thing that stops people from trying new things is the fear of failure. So, you know, if an artist gets, you know, recognition for a certain kind of art, but just does that and does that and does that and to death, that's what she's saying, you know, it'll kill you. you just doing it we need we need to evolve and you need to not be afraid of failing to do that and she says that sometimes she's she's tried things that have been terrible that have flopped that she's thought have been terrible um but but that's just part of the process it's it's a function of comfort so a lot of people do something and they get good at it like it says you're there with your right hand and you're so good at it you can close your eyes and they get comfortable and unfortunately Unfortunately, for a lot of people, they lose sight of all the other things that are out there that they could potentially do and be successful at because they never try it because they never step out of that comfort zone.

Starting point is 00:42:14 Something else that I really took away from that quote, Gillian, was, and recently in my life, I've come to realize that the more vantage points that I can see something from, the more truth illuminates. and I think that with her quote there, she's talking about if you only see something from the right hand and you only do it the one way your whole life, your ability to see all the other people's vantage points on maybe that particular issue are completely blinded. It's like the curtains are closed. But whenever you have the ability to step out of your own maybe preconceived notions of what you think the truth is and you really try to understand maybe your opponent's point of view who has a completely different opinion and you really really. try to immerse yourself in their vantage point. It's amazing how much truth and light just illuminates from that. So one of the big themes in my book is that you've got to question everything, but you have to expect resistance to new ideas and approaches. And there are so many examples of this in my book. You know, the architect Frank Gary is in my book. And he says he was,

Starting point is 00:43:26 always questioning everything. And early in his career, people were not reacting well to this because people get threatened by something new and different. People are comfortable doing things the same way. And if you do something different, it's almost like it's a threat to other people's comfort. There are other people's way of doing things. And it takes a while to sort of get used to it. So Frank, he was called in by his architecture professor. the second year of architecture school. And the guy said to him, listen, I think you should get out of this field now. You are never going to make it.

Starting point is 00:44:05 Can you imagine? And then it seems like they all have a story like that. They all seem like they've had that person in their life that says, you're going to be horrible at this. You need to stop doing it. When Frank Gary started his own practice, he was on the verge of bankruptcy for a long time. And all of his colleagues, they were all very dismissive of him.

Starting point is 00:44:26 and they made fun of his work because it wasn't what they learned in school. It wasn't what architects should be doing. A lot of people care about what you should be or that's not the way we do things. Another example is Muhammad Yunus. He grew up in Bangladesh and the country was in a really terrible state back then. There were people dying in the streets. There was a famine and he decided that he could help a lot of these people. lending them a tiny, tiny amount of money.

Starting point is 00:44:59 It could change their lives. So he wanted to start a bank that would lend tiny amounts of money to really poor people. No one was in on this with him. They all said, say goodbye to your money. This will fail. This will fail. Well, he started this bank anyway. It's called the Grameen Bank, and he won a Nobel Peace Prize for it.

Starting point is 00:45:23 And it was a success. Wow. He says that if you observe something that bothers you, you should just make your own action plan to fix it. And there are many things that are designed in the wrong way. And you shouldn't think that other people know more than you. Your theory might be right. And you can become the new expert. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.

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Starting point is 00:49:03 Back to the show. That's really, really beautiful. And I really love that we're talking so much about the education system, even though that seems like a lot of the most successful people, apparently they just fail. I don't know if that's really motivating for students out there, but we have this saying in the education system that the good student knows the answer, but the brilliant student asks the questions.

Starting point is 00:49:27 And I think that's really something to think about because, I mean, you can't get your A's if you are, you know, knowing all the right answers, but that's really not the whole point about being a student. I think that's something a lot of students really, you know, they miss the target here, They're thinking, I need to know the answer to the questions that my professor's asking. But instead, they should be saying, is it correct what he's saying?

Starting point is 00:49:53 Can I challenge that? And I think a lot of people won't ask because they might be afraid of provoking people. But basically, you know, we need to be challenged. We need to be original. And it seems to me, after reading the fantastic book getting there, is that a lot of these people are very original. I mean, the reason why they got ahead is because they're doing something different. It's not because they're doing the same thing as everyone else. So, I mean, at least that was my takeaway from reading interviews.

Starting point is 00:50:21 Every one of them are creators. That's the thing. They're not, you know, they're all creating something very big. Like, some might argue that Warren Buffett didn't create anything. He's just an investor. I would totally disagree with that. I mean, he's a person who is creating, he created Berkshire Hathaway. And for anyone who knows the history of Berkshire Hathaway, it was a textile business.

Starting point is 00:50:43 It was on the verge of going bankrupt. Then he came in and created it into what it is today. It's amazing what he's accomplished with it. But every one of these people created something very unique in whatever their field is. And that's why they've risen to the top. And one thing is a lot of people in the book, we were kind of bashing the education system. But everybody in this book would say that education is really important. And one of the things that Warren Buffett thinks is the most,

Starting point is 00:51:13 important skill a person can have is good communication skills, both in writing and in your speech. And, you know, there's a lot of ways to learn that. But certainly in my case, I learned a lot of that in school and in law school, you know. Gillian, tell the people which you wrote in the book about what he has on the wall, what diploma he has on the wall in reference to what your comment you just made. Okay, well, up until the age of 20, Warren Buffett was petrified of public speaking. And when I say that, I mean, he would literally throw up at the thought of having to get up in front of a crowd and say anything. So he arranged his whole life so he would never be in this situation.

Starting point is 00:52:03 If there was a class in business school or something, he just wouldn't take it if that was part of it. So he one day forced himself to sign up for the Dale Carnegie Public Speaking School. And he has the certificate from that $100 class on his wall. And he says that this $100 certificate has had more of an impact on his subsequent success than any other degree he has. Because it really taught him communication skills and what's really essential. no matter what business you're in is getting other people to follow your ideas. So if you're a salesman, you want people to, you know, buy what you're telling them to buy. If you're a manager, you want them to follow your ideas in business. Whatever it is, you know, if you're making a book,

Starting point is 00:53:02 you want to convince people to be in the book. You want to present it well. You want, you know, if you're looking for investors for your company, same thing. So, Anyway, he talks about the importance of this, and I think that education in school can really help this. But so many other things can. I'll tell you one thing that is one of the most surprising things I learned in doing this book is how many of my subjects credit early jobs in sales for giving them the skills they needed for their ultimate success. And one of these skills is being a persuasive communicator. That's Mark Cuban's biggest point in his book that he wrote is he, if you're a person who came out of sales, he immediately likes you because that's kind of where he got his start was in sales and he just can't stress the importance of that enough. I want to highlight too that Gillian talked about how Buffett had this Dale Carnegie certificate in his office.

Starting point is 00:54:03 He does not have, from my understanding, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but he does not have his diploma from Columbia or anything else hanging. on the wall. It's just that certificate and then a picture of his dad. Is that right? Well, I think he probably has some other pictures and things, but he, but he has no other, no other degrees or anything. That's, that's it. No business school, no college, nothing. Hey, I want to ask this one, and this will be our last one, uh, Gillian. Uh, well, actually, Stig got one after this. He's going to ask that we ask everybody and we want to ask, make sure we ask that. But, uh, the question that I got for you really relates to your interview with Anderson Cooper because I found this interview with him really fascinating.

Starting point is 00:54:41 And it really kind of, I had a preconceived notion about Anderson Cooper. I thought because he came out of the Vanderbilt family that he had all these connections. And that's how he landed his position at CNN. And he was just, he was basically from the family in the background that had all the connections for him to get to where he's at. That was my preconceived notion. But then after I read this interview that you had in your book, I was floored at what I was reading and how he got his start and how, you know, it talks about it. And I'm just going to give a quick thing here. So he definitely was not your typical case.

Starting point is 00:55:16 Specifically, his brother's suicide and his father's death played a huge role in his achievement and how it basically flushed out any fear that he had in his life to be able to do some of the things that he did. Can you tell our audience a little bit about his story and some of those finer points? Well, yes. So basically his father died when he was 10. and when he was 21, his 23-year-old brother jumped off the terrace of his family's penthouse apartment as his mother pleaded for him to stay put. So he had a lot of tragedy in his life. And I think that, you know, he wanted to sort of be around other people who had gone through tragedies and served.

Starting point is 00:56:08 And he sort of wanted to see how they did it, which is why, you know, a lot of his career, he has been going to different war-torn countries and being around these people because he can really identify with them. But another thing about him that was really surprising is you would think that because of, you know, his family's wealth and connections, that he would have, you know, gotten an in on connections. But the truth is that he could not get an entry-level job at any of the major networks after he got out of college. And he went to Yale. So it wasn't even like, you know, he went to a top school and had a, you know, a wealthy family, but still he couldn't get an entry-level job.

Starting point is 00:56:59 So he ended up hearing about an agency that produces youth-oriented programming for high schools called Channel 1. and he got a job as a fact checker there. But really, he wanted to be a foreign news correspondent. And he quickly realized that when you do a job at a company, people there just tend to pigeonhole you in whatever role you're in. And if you want to do something different, you have to make that happen yourself. You have to either specifically, you know, ask.

Starting point is 00:57:31 And if that doesn't work, you've got to do something drastic sometimes, he says, to change people's perception of you. So what he did is he quit his job. He went overseas, lived on $5 a day, sleeping in roach-infested hotels and rooftops. And he shot his own stories, and he made them as interesting and dangerous as possible, then offered them back to Channel 1

Starting point is 00:57:57 for such a low price that they couldn't refuse. And that is how he broke into the business. And during this time, he wasn't on contract with this little, high school news company. He just basically said, you know what? I'm not a fact checker. I am going to be on the show.

Starting point is 00:58:12 And he just up and left, like basically quit his job completely, goes over there, is paying on his own dime to shoot this stuff with his own little handheld cam recorder. And then he's sending these videos back and he's saying, hey, will you buy this from me? Yes. Yes, that's exactly what he did. He just, it was, you know what? I think that no matter what field, you're. in, you have to be an entrepreneur. So like, everyone has to be that. If you, you know, if you're an

Starting point is 00:58:44 artist, you have to be an artist entrepreneur. You just, everyone is, you know, he's a journalist, but that doesn't mean he got in to some track and went along. He made his own path and made his own opportunities. Yeah. I think that's a really good point because, you know, as I read all these stories, as you're saying, they're all entrepreneurs. I mean, they're doing something original. thing people haven't done before. I mean, I couldn't find a place in the book where you said, so I started as an assistant and then I became associate. And that, I mean, yeah, you don't see that at all.

Starting point is 00:59:17 You're right. No, that's not the story of this sex with people, right? No, you've got to like, you know, you have got to think your way to the top and claw your way to the top and sweat your way to the top. Yeah. I really like the point with the Anderson Cooper that you were saying is so many people. get a job and they're told that they're a fact checker or they're told that they're a whatever. And if once they're told that, they kind of believe it, maybe they still have aspirations.

Starting point is 00:59:47 But the longer that they stay in that role, like if Anderson Cooper stayed in that role as a fact checker for five years, he might still be a fact checker today, but maybe working for a different company because he had it ingrained and beat into his head that that's what maybe some other person thought that he was a fact checker. but if you stay in that role for too long and you might actually start to believe that you are a fact checker even though you might not be. And I think it's really important for people to stand up for what you think you are. And just because other people were telling you that you are a fact checker, you need to go out there and create your own destiny and pushback. And be mindful of the fact that the longer you stay in that role and what people were saying that you are, the more likely it is that you might become that. Yeah, and you need to just decide on your own what it is that you want and just go for it and make your own opportunities. That's right. All right, Stig, give her the final question that we give every one of our guests.

Starting point is 01:00:47 Yes, so one of the questions that we always like to ask the people that we interview is what the book they like the most. So aside from your own, of course, do you have any other books that have drastically shaped your life? If so, what are they, and how have they impact you? Well, one book that I find myself thinking about a lot, and I read it years ago, it was called The Glass Castle. Have either of you read that? I have not. Okay. It's a great read.

Starting point is 01:01:19 And it's by a woman named Jeanette Walls, and she grew up in such an impoverished and dysfunctional family. And she found success. So it's a memoir, but it is, it's so inspirational. And it makes me feel like the best parent. I'm sure you are, Jillian. No, but I just think like, you know, she went through that and she made, you know, she became a journalist. So, Jillian, I'm going to throw this out there. And I know that I'm probably going to embarrass you when I do this.

Starting point is 01:02:00 but, and I'm not just saying this because you're on the show, but this book was truly inspirational. Okay. Whenever I read this book and I was going through each one of these stories, that's really what I got out of this. This was a book of inspiration as you're reading this because each one of these enormously successful people aren't talking about all the things that they necessarily did right to get to where they're at. They talked about their struggles and their hardships and how they are so human. And I think that that's a tribute to your writing and your writing style in the book. is everyone came across is so human and you can really empathize with them. Even though there are these, you know, countless people and they're billionaires, you can really empathize with each one of these people.

Starting point is 01:02:42 And it's an inspiration for me and for Stig and for anybody else that reads this to know that, hey, these people are just like me. And I can achieve at this level if I stay persistent and if I create my own business or I'm an entrepreneur. And if I push back against what other people are telling me that I might be or not be, And so I'll tell you, for our audience, this is a book that I am heavily promoting. And I'm doing that for a reason is because after you read this, you're going to be just so much more enlightened as to what it is that you've got to do in your life in order to take it to the next level. Whatever your ambitions are, you're going to find it in this book. So the name of the book is getting there.

Starting point is 01:03:21 We'll have a link to the book in our show notes. So if you guys can't remember, if you're driving into work or whatever, just go to our show notes. We'll have a link there where you can go to. Amazon and find it. Gillian, did you have any other places that you wanted to hand people off to? A lot of people are curious about how these essays came to be. And basically, I would interview each subject, and I would take the transcript, and it was probably about 20 pages each, and I edited away to about five or six pages per person.

Starting point is 01:03:54 And when I was done with that, I would send me essay back to the subject for his or her approvals. because I wanted everyone, I wanted to make sure I didn't mess up anything in the editing process and I wanted everyone to be completely comfortable with what they shared and how they came across. So, you know, each essay is just about five or six pages, which I like because you could pick the book up, read one, put it down. It's not a big investment. It's a great coffee table book too because if somebody's sitting there, they can read the Warren Buffett story in not a real short amount of time, but it's just enough that you. that you really get the essence of what he's talking about.

Starting point is 01:04:32 And that's what I liked was everything's very compact and you really get the essence of each of these people. That's what's great about it. Yeah, perhaps what is even better or what I would thoroughly enjoy was the pearls. So like a really short paragraph at the end of each of the interview that Gillian is making it. So they would just say,

Starting point is 01:04:53 so what is your takeaway advice for the reader, Warren Buffett? Right. So it was really compact and that's really suitable for us. a coffee table. It is. It really is. Problem with mine is if I put it out on our coffee table, A, my son would probably throw it all over the place because he's two. But everyone else that would look at this, they would see that the whole thing is yellow because I have the whole thing highlighted with all the different quotes and things that were in here. So, Gillian, yeah, no, it was really good. So, Gillian, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being with us. And for our

Starting point is 01:05:25 audience out there, we'll see you guys next week. We're going to skip over the question this week, But next week, we'll have the question from our audience. And if you want to submit a question to our show that could potentially get played on a future show, go to asktheinvestors.com and you can record your question there. So I'd like to thank everybody for joining us and we'll see you guys next week. Thanks for listening to The Investors Podcast. To listen to more shows or access to the tools discussed on the show, be sure to visit www.com. Submit your questions or request a guest appearance to the Investors Podcast by going to www. If your question is answered during the show, you will receive a free autographed copy of the Warren Buffett Accounting Book.

Starting point is 01:06:07 This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. This material is copyrighted by the TIP Network and must have written approval before a commercial application. Thank you.

We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - TIP 031 : My Interview with Warren Buffett and other Billionaires - with Gillian Zoe Segal (Investing Podcast)

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