We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - TIP 127 : Living In Space and What's Next w/ NASA Astronaut Tim Kopra

Starting point is 00:00:00 We study billionaires, and this is episode 127 of The Investors Podcast. Broadcasting from Bel Air, Maryland. This is The Investors Podcast. They'll read the books and summarize the lessons. They'll test the waters and tell you when it's cold. They'll give you actionable investing strategies. Your host, Preston Pish and Sting Broderson. Hey, hey, hey, how's everybody doing out there?

Starting point is 00:00:30 This is Preston Pish, and I'm a lot there. I'm your host for The Investors Podcast, and as usual, I'm accompanied by my co-host, Stig Broderson, out in Seoul, South Korea. And I'll tell you what, folks, I have been waiting a few months for this interview because I am super pumped. Tim Copra is an astronaut at NASA, and he has probably the coolest stories of any person you could possibly meet in your entire life. So let me just set this up for you. So I'm at the Army Navy football game back in December, which I want to add Army 1, and they won. it's been a long time. It's been a very long time since that happened. And I'm at a tailgate and I'm there talking to some friends and there's just this gentleman standing next to me and I don't know

Starting point is 00:01:11 who he is. And one of my friends introduced me to Tim. He says, hey, Preston, this is Tim. I want you to meet Tim. Tim just got back from space in June. And I'm like, how many people get introduced as, oh, he just got back from space? Kind of like it was like he just came back from his grandma's house, just a couple days ago. So I'm like, oh, hi, Tim. Nice to meet you. So we start talking. Turns out Tim went to Columbia Business School. He went to London Business School as well for some time. He went to Georgia Tech. He went to West Point. And so we had a lot of in common just talking about the investing side. But for me, I was so interested in talking to him about all these adventures that he's had in space. And I said, Tim, you've got to come on my podcast. The show is

Starting point is 00:01:55 all about famous investors and studying billionaires. I said, but we have to make this thing work. We're going to talk briefly about Elon Musk and some of the things that they're doing. Also, Jeff Bezos, with his space company and how that integrates into NASA. So we can kind of wrap up this billionaire theme. But the thing I really want to do is let him tell you guys some of the most amazing stories you're ever going to hear in your life. So Tim, with that, thank you so much. And please tell everyone down there at NASA, thank you so much for helping us set up this interview, because I am super pumped to talk to you today. Well, Preston is actually our pleasure to be able to connect with you. And I'm very grateful to have the job that I've had here at NASA working as

Starting point is 00:02:34 an astronaut. It's really been a boyhood dream that turned into a tangible goal. If you think about, it's kind of a ridiculous goal to have to become an astronaut. So I just feel really grateful that things have worked out and I've had a chance to go to space a couple of times now. Well, you know, you talk about how difficult it is to become an astronaut. And a lot of people might not realize this, but that was the whole reason Elon Musk started his own space company was because he looked at the stats of how hard it was to become an astronaut. And he realized, you know, I think it might actually be easier for me to start my own space company and go to space that way than to actually go through the rigors of becoming an astronaut at NASA. So quickly, tell everybody what the numbers are on this.

Starting point is 00:03:17 Like for all the people that apply, how many people actually make it to where you're at and how many are in the astronaut core right now? We know I'm on the selection committee for this next class of astronauts that we'll pick and we'll probably announce this summer. Started out with 18,000 applicants. We'll let down to several thousand that had the basic qualifications. Down to 600 that had the references checked, 120 you came to NASA. And now we brought it down to 50 and we'll pick 10 out of that 18,000 that applied. Holy moly. Okay. So there you go, folks. That's why Elon Musk started his own space company. It's that hard. So that's amazing. So Tim, what I want to do is I want to start off the interview with just like blowing people's socks off here. I want to go to like the day you get shot into space. And you've gone up two times. Correct? You've gone up in the Russian Soyuz. You've gone up in the Russian Soyuz. You've gone up in, was it Endeavor? Which space shuttle did you go up in? Yeah, we launched on Endeavor and actually stayed on Space Station for two months and came home on Discovery, so a couple different shuttles.

Starting point is 00:04:16 Okay, awesome. So take us through both of these days, the day when you went over to Russia and you got shot up through a Russian Soyuz and also here in the U.S. when you came out of Florida. What time do you wake up? What do you have to do to put on your space suit? Like, how long does that take? Talk us through like going up in the elevator into the shuttle. Like take us through that whole experience. Tell us the story. Yeah, sure. You know, it's a full day, whether it's the Soyuz or it was going up on space shuttle endeavor. You know, most recently going up on Soyuz, that one is still very vivid in my memory. We got up, you know, mid-morning, maybe like 7.30 in the morning and our doctors made a final check on us to make sure that we're healthy. Put on our flight suits and had some breakfast. And we went through several different ceremonies that are part of the Russian space flight program. We had some toasts beforehand and we have a backup crew. So it's really the backup. crew that's doing the toasting. But the Russians really treat all of the components of their

Starting point is 00:05:14 space launch and really their spaceflight program with a lot of tradition. And so after saying some nice words to each other about where we were and what we were planning on doing, we signed the door of the crew quarters that we stayed in. And that's been done all the way back to Yuri Gagarin, who launched back in 1961. And then the three of us marched forward, surrounded by our friends and family and a Russian Orthodox priest blessed us and they're dressed in their full garb. And the way we're blessed is with, it looks like this big washcloth, sponge-looking thing, and they throw water on us so that we're blessed. We walk downstairs and as we walk outside to get on the bus to take us to our suit fit,

Starting point is 00:05:54 they're blasting this music that's been played, I guess, for the last couple of decades as part of their tradition. We get on the bus and we drive quite a ways because we launch out of Bikonor Cosmast. which is a huge area. It's much bigger than Kennedy Space Center. And after about a 45-minute ride, we get to the place where we put on our spacesuits. And this is a very important check, because when we put the spacesuit on, we have to make sure that it holds pressure because it's one of the safety factors in launching into space. If we were to have some sort of breach in the vehicle in an emergency, this spacesuit is going to save our life. And so we make sure that

Starting point is 00:06:29 it stays tight when we do the pressure check. And it's funny that we do this behind this big glass window so that all of the press and our family and friends are watching this procedure. When we get in the space suit and we sit down in a little seat that is our seat liner inside the Soyuz Space capsule and they pressurize a suit and make sure that it's all going to be good. And then we have some words with our family through the glass since we're essentially in quarantine and we march outside to the bus that then takes us to the launch pad. And as you can imagine, most of us are kind of quiet as we take that. final bus ride to the rocket because it's a culmination of about two and a half years of very specific

Starting point is 00:07:10 training for this launch. In my case, I was in the left seat of the Soyuz, which is essentially the co-pilot and this very small space vehicle. The center seat was Yuri Molensico, who's a very experienced cosmonaut and also the commander of the Soyuz spacecraft. And then the right seat was Tim Peek. And since my job has lots of requirements going uphill in terms of my responsibilities, I'm basically thinking about all the initial steps I need to have done as we get strapped in and get ready to launch. And then once we get through the whole process of launching into space. So we get out to the rocket and we take some photos. We climb up a ladder and get in a very small elevator.

Starting point is 00:07:50 It's barely enough for a few people and get to the very top of the rocket. And to get inside this spacecraft, it's very typical Russian design. And that is that there is absolutely no extra room. You know, one thing that's very typical of Russian design is that it's usually very simple and robust and just good enough. And that's the way the Soyuz is. But, you know, quite frankly, I'm perfectly happy to fly on that kind of vehicle because it has a couple hundred flights under its belt and lots of maturity with the system.

Starting point is 00:08:21 And so you know that if you launch into space, even if things were to go wrong, you've got a way to still get back home safely. And that's really the name of the game is to get to space and back home safely. So we climb in and it is a really tight fit to get in. In fact, when you climb through, the vehicle is designed with these three elements. One is a living compartment, and that's the one that docks to space station. Connected to that is our descent module. We're crammed inside.

Starting point is 00:08:49 And below that is an instrumentation compartment that we really don't have access to, but it's part of this spaceship. And so we climb through the living compartment. In order to get inside the descent module, it is only big enough to squeeze through. So your spacesuit has a big knob on it that controls your pressure and you have a visor that's part of the helmet system that's connected to your spacesuit. And so when you get in, you're trying to make sure that you don't scratch the hatch as you climb through because that hatch on the outside is your antenna. The seat liner is exactly conformable to your body because that seat liner saves your life when you come back. When you hit the ground, you hit so hard that you have to have something that completely distributes the load.

Starting point is 00:09:34 And so you have this seat liner that's exactly conformal to your body. And along the lines of typical Russian design, the way that they make this seat liner, about a year and a half before flight, we get into this big tin bathtub wearing long underwear. Somebody brings in this big plastic bucket of plaster. They poured around you. It firms up. You hop out. This guy takes a putty knife.

Starting point is 00:09:56 and he carves off the hot spots. They put cloth on it, and that's your seat liner. And that's what you're sitting inside this whole spaceship. So your knees are crammed up, basically as far up as you can move them. And I'm pretty lucky because I didn't have a whole lot of knee or back pain. But a lot of folks do, and you're in this position for a really long time. You get inside the spaceship maybe two and a half hours before launch. And nowadays, it takes us six hours to get to space station.

Starting point is 00:10:25 We do four orbits around our planet, each one about an hour and a half. And so we get to Space Station after six hours. But that means that you're crammed inside the sea for a really long time. And that can be pretty uncomfortable. You literally go around the Earth four times before you arrive. Yeah, that's it, which is pretty amazing, right? Usually it was a couple days. But we figured out how to do the entire orbit increase and the whole process that we can get to space station faster.

Starting point is 00:10:52 So once I'm inside the sea, you have one of the rocks. Russian technicians who's helping you strap in and you're trying to make sure that the seat is dropped down so hard that you really can't move because it's possible even on launch that if things weren't to work out and you had to separate from this rocket, it's going to be a very dynamic ride and so you need to make sure that you're very secure inside the seat. And so once I'm in the seat, you're really trying to organize yourself because you have books that are your procedures that you're going to be using. You've got your kneeboard.

Starting point is 00:11:22 You have your gloves that are down in little pocket. in your legs that you'll end up putting on once you get your suit completely configured. And then one by one, we get loaded into the vehicle. Then Tim Peat got in and strapped in. Uri was in the center seat. And then at that point, we closed the hatch. You know, there's no going back because the hatch is closed and we're getting ready to go. I have a question there.

Starting point is 00:11:44 Tim, is everything in Russian when you were going in the Soyuz? Was it the communication all in Russian? It's 100% in Russian. In fact, our training in Russia is. in Russian, our classes in Russian, our exams, which are a really big deal in Russia, are in Russian. And all of our simulations are in Russian, too. So all the communication we have with mission control is in Russian. Holy moly. Okay, keep going here. Keep going wild. And so we spend some time just waiting for the launch after we've done all of our checks. We've done the pressure

Starting point is 00:12:17 check on our suit. We've got all the system set up. We've checked all the different menus and the data that's entered in that is set up for our launch. And we listen to some music for a while, actually, until we get to the point where we're ready to launch. And so just maybe about 10 minutes before launch, the music goes away. We do our final checks. And then you're just sitting in the seat waiting for it to happen.

Starting point is 00:12:40 You know, it's funny about this is that it feels a lot like the simulations we've done because it looks almost the same. The suit is basically the same. But this time, it's like no kidding for real. and you know that this rocket is going to light below you and you get thrown into space. So we're very focused on the task at this point, as you can imagine. You know, we're waiting those last several minutes until the engine lights. You know, in the simulation, when we do this, they have a little speaker.

Starting point is 00:13:07 The speaker has some rumbling noises. You're looking at the clock and then you start your procedure. But this one's a little bit different and that it's not a speaker with a little bit of rumble. This is like, no kidding, there's rumble underneath you. And it is a really visceral experience because as soon as it starts to light, it's like this slow buildup of noise and a slow buildup of vibration. And pretty soon the whole thing is shaking and you can feel that you're lifting off. And you can feel that it's a little bit unsteady and that you're getting ready to leave the launch pad. And then little by little, the force of gravity, the G's on your body starts to increase and increase.

Starting point is 00:13:43 And you're going through the checks just like you've done in the simulation. But this time is for real. and you're feeling that G buildup. And it's a very visceral experience. You're vibrating, you're shaking. And after about two minutes, we have some strap-on boosters. It's considered the first stage of this rocket. They separate from the rocket with pyrotechnic devices.

Starting point is 00:14:05 And so you hear that and feel that separation. And each time one of the stages separates, you feel that piece of the rocket leave. And then after several minutes, there's a faring or a shroud that covers up our little spaceship. And as soon as that separates, now we can look at our windows and you're seeing that you're going into space. And by the time those shrouds come off, you can see the curvature, the earth, you can see this little thin veil of our atmosphere, the black of space. And there's not a whole lot of time to focus on that because one, the window is small and it's not in the best position to be looking out. But also, you're trying to make sure that you're doing your job correctly

Starting point is 00:14:44 and you're following things in a very specific way. On our mission, We had this nuisance alarm and it was for the humidity level inside our capsule. We've had this problem before. But what it meant was that every several minutes, I had to go ahead and silence the alarm and make sure that it wasn't anything important and to make sure that the rest of the vehicle is working correctly. And so actually the launch went perfectly normal. The very last separation is pretty violent, actually.

Starting point is 00:15:12 And you shake in your seat. But then as soon as you're done with that last separation of that final stage, everything is quiet and everything flows. Because at that point, you've literally, you're not being boosted anymore. It's just, there's no more propulsion, if you will. It's just not for a while. Yeah, you're exactly right. At that point, there's no more propulsion.

Starting point is 00:15:34 And so it's really eight and a half minutes in order for us to get into space. Wow. So that whole experience was eight and a half minutes from the main engines kind of kicking on until basically you have the silence and you're in orbit at that point, eight minutes. Exactly. Wow. It's a low orbit. It's not the same orbit as space station.

Starting point is 00:15:51 We still need to burn an engine a couple of times to make our orbit higher so that we can intersect with space station. Then once you hit orbit, you said it was like six hours until you arrived at the space station? Yeah, it's about six hours total from the time that we lift off the pad until we docked to space station. Wow, that's unbelievable. Okay, so basically you're out in space now. And I heard a lot of guys say that they get sick.

Starting point is 00:16:15 I mean, really looking down at the earth to describe it as almost. feeling like a free fall when you skydive? Is that how you feel it too, Tim? And could you describe the first two weeks adjusting to the new environment? Yeah, you know, the second mission was really interesting because I remembered my first mission and was concerned that I wouldn't feel so hot for that first day. But something that's really amazing about the human body and the human mind is that it accommodates to its environment. And so when I got on board at Space Station, I was probably a little bit more clumsy than I had been on my previous mission initially, but I felt like it was the 59th day of being in space.

Starting point is 00:16:52 I had been on Space Station for 58 days before, and this just felt like a continuation, which is pretty amazing, right, that even after several years, your body and your brain, it just resides. It has that memory of what it was like, and it makes it that much easier. Now, it wasn't like that the first time when I launched a space shuttle endeavor, very similar in terms of the overall experience. of launching into space, the separation of the boosters, and that eight and a half minutes when everything starts to float.

Starting point is 00:17:21 The thing that was different about the space shuttle was that it was a unique vehicle and that it launched as a rocket, and then it was an orbiting spaceship, and then it would land like an airplane. And so when it became that orbiting spaceship, we had to reconfigure the ship to make it suitable for that, setting out computers, putting away our seats, which was a very time-consuming and a well-coordinated task.

Starting point is 00:17:44 So after eight and a half minutes floating in space, coming out of my seat for the first time, which feels really, really strange. And I was feeling pretty good, but not great. And then I floated up to the flight deck, which has this huge set of windows that looks out into space. And all of a sudden, when I looked out the window, my gyro is completely spun because what was different was, you know, what my eyes were seeing, my body's feeling are completely different. I probably had a similar sensation, not so much that I was falling, but just that everything was not. right. And I didn't feel so hot. I took a shot of a medicine that helps us with that sort of thing. And then after an hour or so, went to bed and woke up the next day. It didn't really feel

Starting point is 00:18:25 great the next day, but, you know, every day is a lot better. We're through that second day. The third day, we docked to Space Station. And because of how our mission was organized, that fourth morning, I woke up and did a spacewalk. So it wasn't a whole lot of time to really accommodate to being in zero gravity. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. All right. I want you guys to imagine spending three days in Oslo at the height of the summer. You've got long days of daylight, incredible food, floating saunas on the Oslo Fjord, and every conversation you have is with people who are actually shaping the future. That's what the Oslo Freedom Forum is. From June 1st through the 3rd, 2026, the Oslo Freedom Forum is entering its 18th year, bringing together activists, technologists, journalists, investors, and builders from all over the world. many of them operating on the front lines of history. This is where you hear firsthand stories from people using Bitcoin to survive currency collapse, using AI to expose human rights abuses, and building technology under censorship and authoritarian pressures.

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Starting point is 00:22:54 that might not be too accustomed to NASA, these spacewalks that Tim's talking about are a huge deal. Tim, you've done three EVAs. Is that correct?

Starting point is 00:23:03 Yeah, that's correct. You've done three spacewalks. And this is whenever they suit up, they go outside the space station, they're literally just tethered with like a rope to perform a mission that's outside of the space shuttle and outside of the space station itself.

Starting point is 00:23:18 And so this is very dangerous. This is something that they train in the buoyancy lab before they go there. So talk to us about the spacewalk, like suiting up. I've heard that the tools can change temperatures like plus and minus. I don't remember the temperature, maybe 150 degrees or something like that. Talk to us about suiting up for this and going out and doing a spacewalk. You know, we're very well prepared by a time we go. out on a spacewalk. Sometimes they're different in terms of preparation. The first spacewalk I did,

Starting point is 00:23:45 we trained for really over the better part of a year. And so it was very closely choreographed. And we knew exactly what our steps were. And sometimes you have to deviate from those steps, but it was very well coordinated. Nowadays, we really don't have that capability because we only react to the issues that we have on board space station, and they may not coincide with the training flow that you have. And so you really had to be prepared from the standpoint of having a set of skills that you use in order to do your spacewalk. In our case, the first spacewalk that we did on Expedition 46, this most recent flight, we arrived on a Tuesday night on Space Station. Thursday night, we found out that there was a cart that was stuck out front on Space Station on the big

Starting point is 00:24:27 trust element, which is like the backbone of Space Station. And then Monday morning, we did the spacewalk. So we didn't have a whole lot of time to prepare, but I think both Scott and I felt very comfortable going outside because we were so well prepared from the previous training. And it's a long procedure. You know, in the movies, you see them throwing a spacesuit, go inside an airlock, close a hatch, deep press go outside. And it seems like it's basically like taking a walk outside in the park. But for us, it's a very methodical and very thoughtful and planned out procedure that has to be that way.

Starting point is 00:25:00 You know, it's interesting that it's not too dissimilar to the things you have to do for scuba diving. when you ascend, you have to scrub your body of the nitrogen. And so we have this procedure where we go inside our airlock, which is our door to space. And we close the hatch, we breathe oxygen, pure oxygen. And once we have that hatch close, we can depressurize the airlock. And so that puts us an environment so that we can get rid of this nitrogen. Then we get inside the spacesuit. It all buttoned up. And there's a third person inside the airlock with us that helps us get all configured. And so once we're inside the spacesuit, we can breathe pure oxygen, and so we no longer have to worry about the nitrogen component. So at that point, they repressurized the airlock, they open the hatch,

Starting point is 00:25:45 and now we're going through all the different checks they're required to get us outside. Once those checks are complete, that includes all the settings on the suit, putting on our tools, and the tools are not like anything you've really seen, because they have to be compatible with working in a pressurized space suit. We work in an environment which is a vacuum, meaning there's no air, there's no air pressure. For someone who's not scientifically knowledgeable, it sounds really strange, right? Because we live in this environment here that is 14.7 pounds per square inch every day. Whereas in space, there's none. So it's a very foreign environment. And our suit is pressurized to 4.3 PSI. And what that means is

Starting point is 00:26:27 that it's under pressure and it's a little bit more difficult to move than if it wasn't under pressure. And so all of the tools have to be designed so that we can work in this big, bulky, and really clumsy space suit. So we get configured with our tools. And then that person who had helped us out before puts us in this really skinny tube that is called the crew lock. And that's what we're going to get inside to exit into space. The guy who's helping us, our guy is helping us, closes the hatch that separates us from him. And now the two of us are inside this little airlock that has us, all of our tools that are on top of us, and all of the different boxes and things that we have to replace outside or maybe additional tools that we have in different boxes.

Starting point is 00:27:12 And so then we reduce the pressure in this little volume. That goes down to a vacuum. And now we open up the hatch. And as soon as you open up the hatch, you're looking down on our planet. and it's going past at 17,500 miles an hour, you know that your next step is going to go outside and do this. It's not dissimilar to jumping out of an airplane. For anybody who's ever done that before,

Starting point is 00:27:35 you know, like when you shuffle to the door and you're getting ready to jump out of that airplane, and you're looking out the plane for a second, you're thinking, why am I jumping out of an airplane? Right? It's crazy. But then as soon as you go out, you just start with whatever you've learned and everything turns out great.

Starting point is 00:27:50 In our case, the very first thing that we do, when we got on a spacewalk is take this tether reel. And it's like what you said. It's really the rope that connects us on the space station. It's kind of like a thick fishing line. And so we take that hook and we connect it outside on Space Station. And once both you and your buddy have those connected, now we're cleared to go to work because we're connected onto Space Station

Starting point is 00:28:12 and it's exactly what we did. So based on the speed you're going around the earth, you are seeing daylight and nighttime every 45 minutes. So you're going through an entire day every hour and a half. Well, every 90 minutes, yeah, exactly right. You're going to see a day and night cycles, which is pretty amazing. And you have to adjust what you have on your suit for that as well, because when it's really bright outside, you put down this visor, you know, that gold-looking visor that you see. And when it's dark outside, you have to make sure you pull the visor up and make sure that your lights are on. Because when it's dark outside, it is really dark. It could be a little bit disorienting if you don't have the right lighting. And if you don't really keep your bearing. about where you are. Can you make out the cities down below that are lit up at night? Oh, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:28:59 Yeah. You know, cities at night are absolutely beautiful. It depends on what city. Some cities are brighter than others. Some regions of the planet are brighter than others, but they're absolutely beautiful. You know, it's funny. Whenever I went to the Grand Canyon for the first time and I saw it, I remember telling people, there's no, you know, I've seen a bunch of pictures of the Grand Canyon, but whenever I

Starting point is 00:29:20 saw it in person, it was so different. than the pictures that you saw. There's no way you can capture that with a picture. I can only imagine being strapped to the side of the International Space Station and looking down at the Earth, like zooming by at what did you say the speed was, 17,000 miles per hour or something? Yes, 17,500 miles an hour. It's pretty amazing. Oh, Mike. So I'm assuming you had a similar experience. Like, no pictures that you come back with can capture this, right? You're exactly right, Preston. There are no pictures that do it justice. It is such a surreal experience to be outside on space station for so many reasons, right?

Starting point is 00:29:57 I mean, one, you're in space, right? That's pretty strange. But there's some things you might not think about. Like when you walk around here on planet Earth, you just take for granted that you have sort of the security of always being attached onto the surface below you, right? Well, it's not like that, right? All you have is this little space station that you're connected to. And the way you're connected is with the tools that you use to connect to. We have the tether reel that connects us straight back to the airlock, but that's not really a feeling of security that you're connected, because it's really just a safety line.

Starting point is 00:30:30 And so really it's up to you to have a hook connected onto a handrail that keeps you from floating away. But it's all you have. It's really the main thing that attaches you on to any sort of structure. And then looking out, the thing that I think is so different, just like with your experience of the Grand Canyon or ours looking out on the planet Earth, is that the field of you, I mean, it's everything. thing that you see, right? And the other component of that is just when you see things that are in 3D like you normally do, I think that's the component that makes it really challenging to try to capture in pictures. But I tell you what, to see the planet when you're over cities or over huge bodies of water or in the daytime when you look out into space and your eyes can't see the

Starting point is 00:31:13 stars, but all you see is this thick black of space, it's pretty awe-inspiring. So I would really like to be able to take some of your pictures and put them up on our website on the show notes for this episode. For people that are listening to this, if they want to see a couple of your pictures that you took while you were up there. Is that okay that we put some of those on the show notes? Absolutely. Yeah, it's open domain. Any pictures you'd like and any of the ones that I've taken belong to NASA and they're available for everyone. Awesome.

Starting point is 00:31:39 Okay. We'll do that. So let's talk about the trip home because you've been up there. You've become accustomed to this. I'm sure you start feeling kind of comfortable after a few weeks or a few days. And just so people know, you've nearly spent an entire year in space, correct? 244 days. That feels like about a year.

Starting point is 00:31:57 Yeah, you're getting pretty close. I would feel comfortable after being somewhere for a year. But then you have to climb back in this tiny little capsule and go through the Earth's atmosphere. And I couldn't imagine the stress, what that experience would be like, kind of talk us through that day. Because I would imagine that you're kind of dreading that day in a weird way that you have to climb back in there and go through this experience to get back home. You know, I wouldn't call it dread at all, actually, because one aspect of that is that you know for a while, at least usually, that you're coming home on a specific date. And so you're ready, right? I mean, I spent 186 days in space this last time.

Starting point is 00:32:39 And I could have stayed longer if that was the mission. But the mission was coming to a conclusion, yeah, family and friends back home. you know, there's that turkey sandwich and that Diet Coke waiting for you because you haven't had that in a while. So there are a lot of things that make coming back to Earth appealing. Very good point. Yeah, things don't float away. You don't have to use Velcro to put things down.

Starting point is 00:32:58 You don't, yeah, so it's a lot of components of just daily life and one G that you really start to appreciate over time. And you don't really dread the return trip because I think all of us have a pretty decent understanding of what it's like because you've talked to your friends who've done the same thing. And so you're ready for it in large measure. I think most of us kind of like that stuff. I mean, we like the really interesting dynamic environments in which we can work. You know, some people ride roller coasters. Some people don't. I would say that in our population, most of us probably like the roller coasters. So it's perfectly fine. You know, it's a little bit

Starting point is 00:33:35 interesting that the things that surprised me were when things didn't happen, right? Because we did our simulations on the ground and you know it's like all of our training really you're always practicing when things go wrong and so it's always super busy and they want to make the most out of the time so they don't simulate the times of their delays but in our case you know we're pretty tired because we had a sleep shift to come home at a certain time you have to plan this just right because you have a space station going around the planet you have your spaceship that's going to undock it has to land on a very specific place in Kazakhstan and so that means that's the that departure time is predicated on all those different items as opposed to when we want to get up and go.

Starting point is 00:34:17 So we got up in the middle of the night after a couple hours of sleep, and all of us are pretty tired. And so the first 45 minutes after you undock and you see Space Station depart away from us, you're pretty tired. You're trying to keep awake for about 45 minutes. And then things start to speed up a little bit. We burn the engine on our little spaceship on our Soyuz, and that helps us slug. down and when we slow down we get lower in the atmosphere and we get lower in the atmosphere there's more atmosphere that makes us slow down so it starts this chain of events that gets us to enter the atmosphere and then another long wait about 45 minutes and uh this is where the ride really starts

Starting point is 00:34:57 to become dynamic and violent frankly we separate the two components of our little spaceship that we don't need the living compartment and the instrumentation compartment and the way it's separated is with explosive bolts. So those explosive bolts are essentially like two feet above your head and they all go off in a sequence. And so you know when you have the separation. I mean, it is something that sort of vibrates through the entire structure to include you. But it's a good sign to have those two things separate because there was at least one circumstance when that instrumentation compartment didn't fully separate. It had one bolt that held it on. And the way the ship is designed is that when it gets into the atmosphere and it has that drag, it flies in a certain way.

Starting point is 00:35:42 Well, as soon as you have this big chunk of metal on the bottom, it doesn't fly that way anymore. And so in their case, they were swapping ends like every second, which is pretty horrible. And that lasted for a while until that bolt broke off and they were able to enter in a normal way. So when those two components of our little ship break away as plan, and that's a good thing. And so we can begin our ride back in. And the ride back in is pretty amazing because I think we maxed out with about 5.2 Gs. And that's a pretty heavy load. And your body reacts in very strange ways.

Starting point is 00:36:16 Like one of the things that happens is it's really hard to focus your eyes on one point. They're looking for a gravity field. And so they're always moving. And you're trying to focus on these screens so that you can make sure that the right thing is happening. So in that respect, it's a very demanding environment. So I had this really awesome experience whenever I was in South Korea where I got the fly in F-16. And we got the pool about, it was around five or six Gs in this F-16. And it literally felt like I had my guts just sucked out of my body.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And the thing was is we didn't pull it for that long. I want to say it was just a couple seconds probably. And it wasn't all that long. So I'm curious when you say you pulled five and a half Gs coming in, how long did that last. You know, I'm not entirely sure, Preston, it might have been on the order of 30 seconds. The difference from your jet experience is that the Gs are going through your chest. And so the blood's not getting pulled away from your head. Yeah. But what it means is that it's just hard to breathe because you're trying to breathe against this huge force. And that's probably

Starting point is 00:37:21 the biggest thing that you notice from a physiological standpoint. But it's non-trivial to be flying in that G environment, especially when your body has been used to no gravity. right? So you've gone from floating around to, I mean, getting hammered by five and a half geez almost. Holy. Okay. Keep walking us through this dynamic situation. Yeah. So it gets dynamic. It gets violent when the shoots come out. In fact, a friend of mine in the astronaut office said, I think he put it well. And that is that if you weren't completely strapped down in this seat liner and with all your limbs in your lap and things constrained, you would die. And I think you might be right because when the shoot comes out,

Starting point is 00:38:06 it's not like the shoot comes out and you feel a little bit of a pull and then you slowly descend down. You're really thrown around like a rag doll. I mean, it's almost hard to believe that you're shaken that much when it comes out. I mean, eventually it settles down, but for a, it seems like an eternity, you're really being thrown around like a rag doll. And so you're putting your faith in that seat liner that was made from plaster in a big tin bucket. But it works great, which is good.

Starting point is 00:38:32 And we had a very experienced Soyuz commander in Yuri Molanchico, and he was very adamant to make sure that as the Gs increased early on, that we tightened our seat belts. Because you want to make sure that you're fully tightened down. And when you're in zero gravity, you might be floating out a little bit. So then once the shoot comes out, now we're in sort of this quiescent period. we're flooding to the earth and we're watching the altimeter as we get closer and closer and we're starting to talk to the search and rescue crew that are in helicopters and they see the descending spaceship and we're talking to them to let them know that everything is going okay and then the next big event is landing just a few seconds before landing the seats cock up and they cock up

Starting point is 00:39:16 so you have a shock absorber that's in place and when you do that your face is maybe six inches away from the screen that you've been watching. So now this tight little compartment is even tighter. About 200 milliseconds before impact, they have these jets to fire, and they call them soft landing jets, but there's really nothing soft about them. And then you hit the ground, and you hit the ground so hard that I think most of us spend about 20 seconds doing this personal inventory to make sure that nothing is broken. It's unbelievable how hard you hit, but everything works out fine.

Starting point is 00:39:48 And typically what happens is you hit and you bounce. And in our case, we bounced and we're hanging upside down and waiting for the search and rescue crew to come. And thankfully, they only took about eight minutes to get there. And then they pull us out of our ship one by one. I was the third guy to get out just because of how we were oriented inside the ship. And it's a little bit like a berth. So just like it was going to get in, it's really hard to get out. And these guys are such pros.

Starting point is 00:40:16 They've done it so many times. are reaching in, trying to make sure that you're fully unbuckle, that your oxygen tube is disconnected, your calm cable is disconnected, and they pull you out. And probably the first thing you notice is this super strong smell of the grass in the desert in Kazakhstan because you haven't been exposed this smell or any smells besides ones on station for half a year. And it's almost overwhelming how strong that smell is. And then the brightness of the sun, they put you in a seat. And I think all of us don't feel so great, right? Because just like our bodies have been so accommodated to zero gravity, we're really not accommodated to 1G. And it takes actually a couple days just to feel

Starting point is 00:40:58 halfway decent. After that, just to continue the story, they take us to a tent. We get out of our spacesuit, put on a flight suit, and we get in a helicopter to fly to a place called Kattegandah where we pick up our airplane that flies us back to the States. One thing that's a little embarrassing, but I was in the helicopter and I was lying down and not feeling so great and pretty darn tired because it was a long, long day. I'd fall asleep and I'd wake up and I'd look out the window and I would think, we're over the water.

Starting point is 00:41:29 And then I'd go back to sleep and I'd wake up again. I'd say, we're still over the water. Well, I was looking up at the sky. I hadn't seen the sky in six months. So it would me was water. It's going to be darn. But pretty amazing. We got in a helicopter, flew to our airplane, airplane back to Houston, Texas.

Starting point is 00:41:46 And about 25 hours after leaving Space Station, I'm walking off an airplane and greeting my family. So when you're coming back into the atmosphere, could you see any colors or anything from a capsule? No, you could definitely see as you're coming back into the atmosphere. I didn't actually spend a lot of time looking out the window because we're pretty focused on our job, trying to get things done. But looking out the window, you can see the plasma burning past your ship. you know, when you see that ship after it lands, it's all burned up and it's burned up because when you go through the atmosphere, the air is moving so fast that it's a plasma. It's about 3,000 degrees. And if it wasn't for the way the ship was designed with its heat shield, we would

Starting point is 00:42:25 just burn up coming in. And so you can see all that passing the window and you can see the atmosphere as you get closer and closer towards our planet. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. No, it's not your imagination. Risk and regulation are ramping up, and customers now expect proof of security just to do business. That's why VANTA is a game changer. VANTA automates your compliance process and brings compliance, risk, and customer trust together on one AI-powered platform. So whether you're prepping for a SOC or running an enterprise GRC program, VANTA keeps you secure and keeps your deals moving. Instead of chasing spreadsheets and screenshots, VANTA gives you continuous automation across more than

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Starting point is 00:46:12 back in from space. Yeah, it's a pretty stark difference. The space shuttle, it landed like an airplane. And so the maximum Gs in a space shuttle was around 1.6. You know, one difference is that you're setting up and so it's a little bit different in that respect but it's a very smooth ride in comparison it does a couple circles that manages the energy and it's interesting the way the shuttle comes in because there is no engine or there was no engine on it's essentially a big glider it's like a refrigerator with wings and it's coming back in and so in order to land exactly at county space center in our case Edwards Air Force space you have to make sure that you get low enough at the exact right point and they would do this by flying a circle and the size of that circle would change based upon what your

Starting point is 00:47:00 endpoint had to be in order to come in and land. And so all that was very, very benign. You know, about 600 feet before landing, the pilot on the flight deck of the space shuttle lowers landing gear. You squeak it on, you land, and then a crew comes and helps you off, but radically different experience than a Soyuz. So whenever we're thinking about what it is you took away from both of these experiences, and I'm treating them kind of as two separate experiences.

Starting point is 00:47:27 What one thing just kind of pops out at you? Like I know whenever I look back at my life and I say, while I went through that thing, and this was the one thing that I really took away from that experience, that two or three year experience or whatever it was, when you look at your time on those two different trips to space, what was the learning point from the first one? And then what was your takeaway from the second one?

Starting point is 00:47:49 I think the thing that was so surprising from the first mission, which was about two months, was how the human body and mind can adapt to its environment. I mean, it's kind of crazy that after a short period of time on Space Station, you're carrying things with your legs and you're moving with your hands, right? I mean, it's just really bizarre. I remember almost distinctly when it got to the point where you can move around on Space Station and it felt normal.

Starting point is 00:48:18 I mean, for a while, you're just trying to feel comfortable. but then after maybe a couple of weeks, you'd move around to different orientations because you can use all the surfaces, right? It's a volume as opposed to the 2D world that we have here on Earth. But it would take like maybe a potato or two for you to figure out exactly how you're oriented and how everything was situated around you. But there was a point in time when something is happening in your head, this matrix transformation so that you can move in any orientation and it felt completely normal.

Starting point is 00:48:49 That's bizarre, right, that we can accommodate. and adapt to that environment. And then conversely, coming back home, it was really, really tough the first time. The second time, you know, is still very uncomfortable, but not as harsh as the first time. The first time I landed,

Starting point is 00:49:04 it was like a combination of the flu and a hangover for like two days. It was really terrible. And everybody's different, but that was definitely my experience. And then, you know, after a few days, you feel pretty good and comfortable again. And really within a few weeks, you're at the same baseline as you were

Starting point is 00:49:20 before going off into space. So that first learning experience, I think, was just how adaptable we are as humans. Then the second experience, you know, it's hard to really bring it down to one. I think it's really two things, really, for the second mission. One is, I mean, two months sounds like a long time, but six months is better because after six months taking pictures of our planet and just really studying it because it's just absolutely so beautiful. I just have this really deep appreciation for what we have because it's all we have.

Starting point is 00:49:53 When you look out beyond Earth and you see that black of space, you realize that we're really, really alone. Everything else is really far away. Like Mars, you can see the movie The Martian and, you know, so a little spaceship goes out there, it comes back. It's not like that. It's really far away. The only closest thing we have is the moon, even that's a few days away.

Starting point is 00:50:13 But everything else is really far away. And so that is just really striking how beautiful our planet is and how alone we are from everything else, especially from the second time that I flew because of how mature the space station is from the standpoint of our systems and processes and people. It is a tremendous team effort. And I don't think the average American in particular appreciates what we've done in space in an international way. I think it's just amazing, right? The first time I was on space shuttle discovery and we're undocking and pulling away, looking at this amazing spaceship that is almost hard to get your head around, how big it is, how complex it is. And it reminded me of the times that I'd spent in Italy and Germany and Canada, Japan, preparing for this mission and an earlier role, preparing the hardware for spaceflight.

Starting point is 00:51:08 And here it is, in space, all assembled and working so effectively. I mean, it's pretty amazing, right? It's amazing from a technical standpoint. And it's also amazing from the standpoint that it was done in a very international way. It's a real testament to what we all can do when we put our minds together and have a common goal. And that may sound a little bit cliche, but I mean, it's really truly unbelievable what we've done. I think that it's really hard to compare any human accomplishment with what we've done in space with the International Space Station. Yeah, I'm looking at the picture of the International Space Station behind you there. And it's just, I couldn't imagine pulling up and looking out the window and seeing that thing there. And then thinking, you know, human beings work together in order to build this thing, not even on our planet. And the things just circling around the Earth every hour and a half. That's totally mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing.

Starting point is 00:52:02 What's also mind-boggling is that when we're inside Space Station, it feels so normal and so comfortable. and so safe, but it's not, right? We're living in a vacuum and we're living in an environment that is completely manmade. The temperature that we have, we have very complex systems to remove the heat and disperse that heat outside of our living volume. We scrub the carbon dioxide that we're expelling all the time. We're replacing the oxygen that we breathe and we breathe a lot. It's just amazing what we're able to do in space and we're going to continue to do these

Starting point is 00:52:36 kinds of things with more complex vehicles in the future. Tim, talk to us about achievement. For many people listening to this show, they want to accomplish big things in our lives. If you can give people three things to focus on for accomplishing their dreams, what would it be? That's a great question. Everybody's different, right? So, you know, my advice may not be applicable to everybody, but I can tell you what has been good for me.

Starting point is 00:53:02 Things have worked out in a way that I never could have anticipated, and I, I, I, I, really blessed as a consequence. But for me, I think it's really important to have big goals. And sometimes goals that seem completely impossible or maybe even ridiculous, like becoming an astronaut, because that's where it starts, right? I mean, you have to have the goal in order to make it work out. I mean, if you don't have the goal to start with, then you're certainly not going to accomplish it. But there's something about really big goals that is empowering that smaller, lesser goals or not, they provide this sort of motivation, this drive that really doesn't come, at least to me or for me, out of smaller goals. And what happened from my experience was this crazy

Starting point is 00:53:47 desire and goal becoming an astronaut that was sort of reinforced when I was at West Point and was able to listen to some formal Apollo astronaut speak to us, which told me, hey, look, they could do it, then maybe I could do it. And so having that big goal was really, powerful. And what was also encouraging from this was to recognize that in order to have feel accomplished those big goals, you need to figure out a very methodical plan. And every time one of those smaller goals that would contribute to the big goal worked out, then it was just one more motivator to keep on working harder. And I thought for me, that was very important. The second thing I would say that also relates to that and was true for me specifically is that it's possible to model

Starting point is 00:54:32 your behavior off of someone else's accomplishments. And so even when I was a young cadet at West Point, after this sort of seminal moment when those Apollo astronauts has spoken with us and I realized that maybe that could be something I would do someday, I would go to the library and I would find out what former West Pointers had done who had become astronauts, what their history was, I read their biographies, what their steps were. And not that you can replicate that exactly, but you can get a feel by trying to model someone else's behavior and their steps to help you along with your goal.

Starting point is 00:55:06 And at the end of the day, it won't match exactly. And it may not match at all, but man, it is a great starting place to be able to model. And then thirdly, I think probably the most important part are a preparation for your goal. And it usually requires a lot of hard work. So for young people in school, for example, you know, when you're an eighth grader having to study algebra and it may not feel like it's worthwhile. for me, things like math and science in particular are like tools in a toolkit. And you have no idea when you might need it again, but they're really important, right?

Starting point is 00:55:41 So a lot of these fundamental subjects like math, you may never be a mathematician, but it'll teach you how to think. So really kind of focus on the hard task at hand would be probably a great way to summarize that last point. I think you need to focus at the hard task at hand. But I think my point is that you're building a set of skills over time that will contribute to whatever your goal is. And most things that are worth doing are really hard and require a lot of preparation. For the next segment, we'd like to talk about billionaires. And especially because we see that human interaction in space is really changing dramatically.

Starting point is 00:56:20 Billionaires like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos have huge impact. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts about especially Elon Musk. We read his biography here on the podcast and we were thoroughly impressed. He was one of the first programmers on GPS. A lot of people don't know that. He was also a co-founder of PayPal so he really understands finance. He went over to Russia to try to persuade him to sell some of the rockets to him. Then he went back and decided to do it himself.

Starting point is 00:56:47 Talk to us about their contributions. And where do you see a lot of this heading? Sure. You know, I respect visionaries because they help to chart a path that other people might have thought was impossible. And sometimes those visions are impossible initially, but that's where you start, right? You start with this big picture and you work towards it. And so I respect people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk with their vision of what we can do. And they've accomplished a lot, right?

Starting point is 00:57:17 In the case of SpaceX, we work with them closely in getting supplies to Space Station. And like you mentioned, they're able to land their first stage vertically, which is like a Buck Rogers thing, right? I mean, it's just amazing to see that kind of thing happen. And they're going to progress to having a vehicle that they put people on. And, you know, in the case of SpaceX, they're very closely connected to NASA in our contracts. And that's largely how they're funded. And then in the case of Blue Origin, which is Jeff Bezos's company, at this point in time, it's, I think probably 100% private. it. So a little bit different model, right? One that is largely government funded, one that is

Starting point is 00:57:56 privately funded. In both cases, though, I mean, I think it's really important that we have people that have the kind of vision that's necessary to push things forward and to eventually get to a place where perhaps it's not just a government venture. It is something that can be done and your average person can do it. And I think that's a very admirable goal. And I look forward to us getting closer and closer to that objective. The thing about spaceflight is that it turns out that spaceflight, human spaceflight, is really hard, right? So I came to NASA as an astronaut in 2003.

Starting point is 00:58:33 In 2003, we killed seven people on space shuttle Columbia. And we talk about that a lot here because it keeps us focused. Because the consequences of us doing things all the time nearly perfectly is that we lose, our colleagues and our friends and our crewmates. That's a big deal, right? It's a huge deal. I was just at a meeting recently to look at approval of one of our spacecraft, one of the resupply vehicles going in. We had a senior manager talk about a meeting where they were supposed to review the phone that was coming off of the space shuttles at the time and how we didn't 100% listen to the people we should have because if we had, we wouldn't have killed the crew

Starting point is 00:59:14 on Columbia, right? So I bring that up because it's an important lesson for everybody who's involved or that may be involved in human spaceflight to realize that it is really, really dangerous, right? To get outside of our gravity field requires lots of thrust through nozzles on highly explosive rockets in a very complex environment and hazardous environment. You know, once you get to space, a lot of respects, you know, you've crossed that biggest hurdle in terms of your life being in peril. But when you launch into space, you know your life is in peril. And these people will be in the exact same situation as we have been when we put non-astronauts or at least civilians that are not fully trained into that environment. So we just have to be very cognizant that it is not easy.

Starting point is 01:00:01 And then once you get to space and say we have plans to go well beyond lower orbit like to Mars, you know what? That part's really hard too, right? Because the environment in which you have is exactly what you have. Whatever you have is what you brought with you or what you make. And that's a level of complexity that cannot be overstated. It's really hard to make sure all that works out. We haven't really been outside of Lower Earth orbit for any length of time ever. We went to the moon, but that's not the same as going to Mars.

Starting point is 01:00:33 And currently, it might take us six to nine months to get to Mars. That's a really long time. And in my mind, spending six to nine months going to Mars is why, wildly risky from the standpoint that time is risk, right? The longer you're in space, the more radiation you're exposed to. The more time you're in that transit to another planet, it's more time for things to break, for things to go wrong. And so I think the right answer for us to be really ambitious and go to Mars or even beyond

Starting point is 01:01:02 someday is to make sure that we can do it quickly because time is risk. So I would caution all of us to include NASA that we focus on that risk. And I know that here at NASA, we talk about it a lot and we should because we've had bad things happen before. Amazing comments. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. So this is our last question. We ask everybody that comes on the show this question. What book has inspired you or kind of shaped your life more than anything else that you would be willing to share with our audience so that they know what it is?

Starting point is 01:01:36 Well, there's lots of conditions here, right? You said one book and what I'm willing to share. You know, there are two books. I mean, it's really hard to narrow down to a book, right? Yeah, you can definitely say more than one. You know, two books that come to mind. As a kid, I was really inspired by the right stuff. I mean, for the folks that were my age, we were watching men land on the moon.

Starting point is 01:02:01 I mean, there is nothing more inspiring to a young person than watching these American heroes do something that was virtually impossible, right? I think the entire planet was inspired by this, right? And it was really started by seven people who did things that none of us thought were possible. And to me, that was just really inspiring. It was a starting point of a lifelong dream. And then this is somewhere between classic and cliche at this point. But Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, it's a classic, right? I mean, everybody should read that.

Starting point is 01:02:35 And there are so many things in that book to aspire to. I mean, I need to go back. Have it on my list of things to do to go back and reread it because it's a big rock, right? I need to go back and read that again. Great book. So for people listening to the show, we have an executive summary that Stig and I wrote for the seven habits of highly effective people that will put into the show notes. So you can download our executive summary of that if you want to kind of piece through it before you read it or have it as your own notes. You can use it as your own notes for the book.

Starting point is 01:03:04 But great recommendation. We're a big fan to that book as well. Tim, we can't thank you enough. This is beyond awesome. These are stories that I guarantee you, not everyone gets access to. And how inspiring. How brave. That's the thing that I think is not said.

Starting point is 01:03:20 But everyone that's listening to this has to be thinking, how brave do you have to be to climb into a rocket and shoot yourself into space and do these missions? And then come back and tell these amazing stories. We just can't thank you enough. Wow. I'm at a loss for words, but I'll tell you one thing, we really appreciate your time and you coming on and sharing these stories. Thank you, Preston. It's been my pleasure. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:03:45 Guys, thank you for listening. That was all that Preston and I had for this episode of The Investors Podcast. We'll see each other again next week. Thanks for listening to The Investors Podcast. To listen to more shows or access to the tools discussed on the show, be sure to visit www.com. your questions or request a guest appearance to the investors podcast by going to www. www. asktheinvestors.com. If your question is answered during the show, you will receive a free autographed copy of the Warren Buffett Accounting Book. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. This material is copyrighted by the TIP Network and must have written approval before a commercial application.

We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - TIP 127 : Living In Space and What's Next w/ NASA Astronaut Tim Kopra

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