We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network - TIP210: Tony Robbins - (Business Podcast)

Episode Date: September 30, 2018

On today's show, we get the rare opportunity to interview one of our heroes, Tony Robbins. Tony is an American Entrepreneur and NY Times Best Selling Author of multiple books. During our discussion, we talk about Tony’s book Unshakeable and Money Master The Game. Additionally, we talk to Tony about the things that matter most, which is how a person can find their higher purpose, how to accomplish the things people want to master, and most importantly, how to have a real impact.  IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: Why investors in 401(k) plans put up 100% of the capital, take on 100% of the risk, and only 33% of the return. Why business and life are all about adding value. Why you should plant your seeds when you have nothing, to gain abundance in business and life.  BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive TIP Mastermind Community to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, and the other community members. Tony Robbins’ book, Unshakeable. Related Episode: Listen to Preston and Stig’s discussion of Tony Robbins’ book, Unshakeable or watch the video here. Tony Robbins’ charity, Feeding America. Meet Tony Robbins’ at his Unleash The Power Within events. NEW TO THE SHOW? Check out our We Study Billionaires Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts.  SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: Bluehost Fintool PrizePicks Vanta Onramp SimpleMining Fundrise TurboTax HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

You're listening to TIP. On today's show, we're absolutely privileged to interview Tony Robbins. As someone who's looked up to Tony for years, it's somewhat startling for Stig and myself to interview him. So we're extremely excited to bring you this interview. And during our discussion, we talked to Tony about his book Unshakeable and Money Master the Game. Additionally, we talked to Tony about the things that matter most, which is how a person can find their higher purpose, how to accomplish the things people want to master in their own lives, and most importantly, how to have a real impact. So for people that aren't familiar with Tony, he's a New York Times

bestselling author of multiple books. He's an entrepreneur of multiple businesses that produce $6 billion annually. Tony has worked on an individual basis with people like Wayne Gretzky, Serena Williams, Hugh Jackman, and even people like President Bill Clinton. Tony's been ranked as a top 200 business guru by the Harvard Business Press, and he's been ranked as a Forbes Celebrity 100. So without further delay, here's our interview with the brilliant and charitable Tony Robbins. You are listening to The Investors Podcast, where we study the financial markets and read the books that influence self-made billionaires the most. We keep you informed and prepared for the unexpected. All right, so like we said in the introduction, we are super pumped.

to be here with the one and only, Tony Robbins, number one New York Times bestseller across multiple books. Stig and I, we're a little bit shell-shocked right now, but Tony, welcome to the investors' podcast. We are thrilled to have you here. Gosh, I'm thrilled to meet you both. I know you guys have the number one podcast of its nature in the world, so I feel honored to be here, and thank you for your kind words. Thanks, Tony. So we're just going to jump right into this first question. So Stig and I have read your book, Unshakable. We've also read your book, Money Master the Game. You talk about this in the book, but I want you to explain it to our audience. What was your motivation to get out there

and write this? I mean, your first book was a behemoth. And your second one's, your second one's big. So what inspired you to do this? Because this is not an easy undertaking to do this. I love, you know, things that are where there's no net. I love the idea of a live event because you never know what's going to happen. It got 10 or 25,000 people. And you never know what's going to happen. And I love that playing with Onet and the newness of it all. You know, writing a book, you're sitting solitary. There's no feedback to see how you're doing. And so I just don't really like them.

But I got so pissed off in 2008. That's really what made me write this is I said, I got to get this out to people. And I got to get in a form that's inexpensive and they don't have to go to a seminar to do it. Because the amount of abuse that happens in the financial system, as you guys both know well, it's not a bunch of evil people trying to destroy people's lives. It's just a bunch of very large corporations that are doing what you. their edict is to do, which is to maximize shareholder value, but that's not to maximize you as an investor. And the only way they can make more money is more fees. And I've worked with Paul Tudor

Jones, one of the top 10, you know, financial investors in the history of the world, literally, for 24 years. I've worked with him literally every day, five days a week. He writes me and gives me the details. I meet him four times a year in person. And, you know, he's not lost money personally in all those years, which there's nobody in his category of his volume and size that's done that. So I've learned a lot from him. But when 2008 happened, I grew up with a lot of suffering. So I'm not some great special person. I just hate suffering for others because I know what it feels like.

And there was so much suffering. And even in successful, financially successful people, but also it was watching people losing their homes, watching people lose 50% of their entire retirement nest egg overnight. And it was so preventable. And it just made me crazy. I did incredibly well during that time. guys know when things melt down, you can actually better faster than when they're growing. If you keep your head together, if you know what you're doing, and you know, I've worked with

some of the smartest people on earth in this area. So I just felt like somebody's got to do something. And two years later, still nothing was done. And I saw a documentary that won an Academy Award, and it was all about the financial crisis. And it systematically showed how a few people almost destroyed the entire world economy. And then the punishment was we gave them more of our money. It's just like, so at the end of this thing, you're either totally depressed or you're totally angry. I was in the angry side because the press doesn't change anything.

I thought, okay, I got to convert this energy into something productive. What can I do as one person? I'm, you know, I'm not special, but I have a special connection, which is, I know some of the smartest financial people on earth. What if I interviewed 50 of them? And I brought to the table the best financial minds on earth. Nobody from the Lucky Sperm Club, everybody who built it from nothing. And so when I, you know, I got access to Warren Buffett and Jack Bogle and David Swenson and Bert

Alkill and Carl Icon and all these people, Ray Dalio, the smartest guys in the room. And so then they started referring me and I got deeper and deeper in that group. So I wrote this 670 page crazy book as you described, Money Master the Game. And then the reason I hate writing books, but the reason I wrote this book is I thought, we got the longest now officially, longest bull market in our history. Obviously a correction is coming. You get a correction every year, but I'm a, Bear is going to be here at some point.

And I want to make sure people are prepared and realize that's the greatest time in their life. I wanted to be able to take a millennial who thinks they have so much debt they can never be out of it and show them in a weekend and read a book in a weekend and be done a playbook of here's how to go from where you are to where you really want to be. Or take a baby boomer who thinks, I started too late, I can never get financially secure and show them how they can do it. And so that was the impetus for unshakable. And another thing is, you know, I donate 100% of the profits to feed people.

because when I was 11, there was no money and no food, and I was fed. So I fed two families that 17, and I got it to 100,000 people, and the million a year, four million. Now we feed 100 million people a year for the last four years, 400 million people, and I'm going to feed a billion over the next six years. So 100% of these profits go to help us make that happen as well. So people can change their own life, and we feed 50 families for every book as well. You know, Tony, my favorite part about your entire response there is right at the end, and it's for multiple reasons, not just the impact, which.

which is somewhat mind-boggling to think that you are going to be able to feed a billion people. But I think for the person that's listening to this, kind of wondering about the information they're about to receive, when a person says that they give all the proceeds of the book away to a charity, you are incentivized to tell the truth. You're incentivized to provide the best information you can provide. and that is not how a lot of the finance industry is structured. And I think that that is such an important part for people to take away from this

is that you are not incentivized. Buffett has a quote. We heard him at the last shareholders meeting. He said, you show me the incentive and I can show you the action or the reaction. I'll tell you what, your incentives for this are really in the right place. And let me just throw this out there.

And I'm sorry to be talking so much because we want to hear from you. but feedamerica.org forward slash Tony Robbins. If you want to participate in this and help Tony achieve this feeding a billion people go there and we'll have a link to that in our show notes. Thank you for that. I just want to plant a seed. And that is if they just buy the book, I'll feed 50 families. But if they want to join me, we have 49 million people in the richest country in the world that wake up every morning not knowing where their next meal is going to come from. 17 million or children.

So that's not a statistic to me because I was one of those. It's not like I'm some good person. And it's just I've suffered enough that I don't want anybody else to suffer. But if you donate $100 or you donate it a million, up to $4 million, I match every year. So there's no limit other than $4 million. So you can put $10 in and I'll match it and you'll double your impact or you can put no money in and just get the book and I'll feed 50 families. But I hope people who care about this issue, not everybody does, but they do double your impact and join me in this and I'll match you on whatever you do. Tony, I really love how you include yourself and your own story and your response.

there because it is no secret for those of us who have been following your career, that financially you have the deck stack against you in your early life. Talk to us about how your life were in the early years. And then what has happened since? I know there's been quite a few things has happened since, but your personal journey to where you are today, in your own words, how did this happen? You know, I always tell people you overestimate, most of us, overestimate what we can do in a year. And then we're disappointed. But we underestimate what we can do in a decade of growth, or in my case, four decades

of growth, right? So there have been a lot of stages long way. But I grew up in a family where I had an incredible mother. She loved me completely. I have a younger brother, younger sister, five and seven years younger. So I was kind of an adult in the room. And my mom was good human being, but a troubled lady. And she abused alcohol and prescription drugs.

And she did, she got a little crazy. So she would, you know, smash my head against the wall until I bled. She would pour liquid soap. on my throat because you thought I was lying until I threw up and I wasn't lying. And so when somebody you love is trying to harm you and yet you still know they love you, it messes with your head a little bit. But I finally figured out I needed to become a practical psychologist. I need to be able to predict her moods and change them. I need to understand what was driving her. And so much of who I am came. You know, I often say that if my mother had been the woman

I'd hope she was, I wouldn't be the man I'm proud to be. And so I'm truly grateful to her because She did the best she could do, and she really did love me, but she had huge problems. And I had to learn to separate people's behavior from who they are, because otherwise, I'd go crazy. And so that helps me today. When somebody behaves insanely, meanly, harshly, I know that that's not their soul, their spirit. That's their behavior.

And so that helped me to be able to help other people. I think along the way, I learned that if I could keep learning, if I could become a learning machine, that any problem I could solve, any problem I had, if I could solve it for me, I could solve it for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, eventually tens of millions of people. And so my path has been really just constant growth. I took a speed reading course when I was 17 and I said, you know, leaders are readers. You know, I want to compress decades into days. If I can take 30 years of a guy's life and I can compress it down to the most important insights,

I can save a whole lot of time and serve a lot of people, including myself. And so I didn't read a book a day, but in seven years I read 700 books in the era of human development, psychology, physiology, and pretty soon, you recognize that everything is a pattern. You know, you know, as financial, your financial orientation, it's all pattern recognition, pattern utilization, your really smart pattern creation. That's what makes somebody brilliant in any field, and certainly in finance. And so I got really good at recognizing everything is a pattern with human beings and that there are patterns that make you angry, patterns that make you sad, patterns that make you grateful,

patterns that make you excited. And if you think it's you, it's hard to change you, but if you realize there's just this pattern, You can change anything. And once I understood that, my capacity grew. And so by being put on the line with no net for decades, you tend to grow. And if you're passionate about constantly getting better, you expand. And so over those decades, that's happened. And then I began to grow companies because early on, I realized my ideas are going to die in my lips

unless I learned to grow and build a company and develop innovation and marketing. And so I had none of those skills. And I was terrible. But I created raving fan clients, which made up. for my education in the business side. And now I'm privileged enough to have 54 companies, you know, 12, I actively manage. We do over $6 billion in business. And 14 different industries is unique as stem cells to, you know, I'm one of the owners

of the L-EFC. I have an e-sports team. I love to light people up. I love to arm people with strategies and tools that give them control their own life. And so finance is one of those areas. So, Tony, what I captured at the start of what you were saying is so important that we found. There was a book by Carol Dweck. She's out of Stanford.

I'm familiar with her. She's great. Yeah, the book mindset. And when you were talking about your quote there where you said, you know, if I didn't have the mother that raised me that way, I wouldn't have become the man that I became. It takes a person with a growth mindset to be able to understand that and not really play the victim card because so many people that are going through a rough upbringing like that are saying, well, I can't succeed because. you know, I'm a victim or I was treated this way and I can only imagine how hard it is to teach yourself or train your mind to think I'm not a victim. This is an asset in some way. How does a person go about doing that? I can't wrap my head around how a person can make that

transition without coaching or somebody, some positive influence in their life. So for you at that early age, how did you make that transition of the mindset? I think it honestly was reading biographies and autobiographies in mass, meaning some of the most brilliant humans in history and I'm reading their stories. And I went from feeling sorry for myself to going, this is part of the path to growth. This is part of the path to becoming a person who has influence and impact in a beautiful way in the world because virtually every story I read, you know, Churchill came from a very, you know, privileged background, but the hell that that man went through, you know, in order to try and save his country and turn the world around is just extraordinary. And so you read these stories and all of a sudden,

I couldn't tell myself the story of the victim anymore. And I think the other reason is because as a victim, I can't help anybody. And I've always had this internal drive of, I just love human beings. I love to see them feel fully alive. I hate to see them in pain. And so if you, if you're a person, I'm If I'm a victim, then my life is over. And most people pick the victim approach, not because then they're victim-oriented, but because they're just scared. We're all deathly afraid we're not enough. I've never met anybody.

Presidents of countries, billionaires. We all have a place we feel we're not smart enough, rich enough, young enough, old enough, sexy enough, you know, I don't know anything enough. And we feel like you're not enough. The deeper fears you won't be loved. And love is the oxygen of life. And so most of us are, especially in social media, are trying to constantly prove that we're somebody special. But, you know, there are people, I have a friend that's got it one of the top

gyms here in South Florida. And he told me, Tony, every single day, people come in, men and women, set up all the weights, take a bunch of pictures and don't work out. And they post it on Facebook and so forth because they just want to project this image. I mean, it's scary because the only way you have self-esteem, esteem for yourself is by making yourself do incredibly difficult things, things that no one else can know, but you know, pride comes from pushing through. It doesn't come from ease. The path of least resistance will never make you proud. It'll never make you strong.

It'll never make you fulfilled. It'll make you weak. So for me, early on, the approach to being a victim and just made you couldn't, your life would have no meaning. It means that, yeah, you could point to something and say, that's why my life is this way. It's not me. There's nothing wrong with me. You can still love me. But who wants to live that way? And so I think, you know, I didn't have role models, but I had role models through books.

books allowed me to transport myself to World War II, another time to another history, to another way of thinking. Plus, if you read an autobiography where the author themselves wrote it. And it's like, you think like the author as you do that. And so if you keep reading those things, you get the pattern of thinking of some of the most brilliant minds on the planet. And so my whole thing is my original teacher was Jim Rohn. He used to say, miss a meal, Tony, but don't miss reading 30 minutes a day. And I don't mean clickbait. I don't mean some blog.

I mean like a real book where something that. that's got strategy or philosophy that can help you change your life or help someone else. And so that obsession for decades has really served me really well. But I think the other thing is, I think I learned early on that life is worthless if it's just about you. It's not about me. It's about we. And this whole me mindset that we have today, like what am I getting?

What am I not getting? You know, who's, you know, who's hurt me or who, you know, they don't usually ask who have I hurt because everybody has hurt somebody even to get an intended or have been hurt by somebody. but that's life. You know, it's like step up and grow. But I think the biggest thing is early on, I realize that life is about adding value. It's not just business.

You can't get wealthy, you know, financially without adding value. Even as an investor, you're providing capital to the right places. If they add enough value, you're going to win. If you can do more for other people in your life, in your relationships, in your business, you're going to prosper, you're going to beautiful relationships. You're going to be a beautiful life. There is no substitute for adding more value than anybody else.

and constantly improving the way you have that value. And if it's in business, you've got to also market that value because you're going to have the best product. But if you don't get it out to people where they want it, dies on your lips. And so I think it's a combination of those things that help to shape me. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. All right.

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And it seems like we're talking about everything aside from that. So, so sorry about it. And here's another question. That's not about the book. With your knowledge, with your extensive set of skills and with everything that you have experienced, if you had to go back and give a piece of advice and do that to yourself whenever you were 20, 30, 40, and 50, respectively. And here's the kicker.

it has to be the same advice. So regardless of where we are in life and regardless of the age we are, what would it be? That's a great question. It's an interesting question. I wouldn't necessarily think that at every age it's the same advice, but sometimes repetition is the mother's skill. If I had one piece is it's add more value. I mean, it's my mantra. It's my obsession.

It's like, how can I do more for others? And that's not just because I'm a good person or something. I think I am a good human being. But it's really because that's the only thing that's fulfilling. What makes you fulfilled is growing and giving. If you're not growing, I don't care how many trophies you have. I don't care how many millions of people love you. I don't care how much money you got.

I don't know how many, you know, catting awards you have, or whatever your way of measuring is, you're not going to be happy. You know, how many people have you seen that are incredibly wealthy that have honored in every way? Millions of people love them and then they kill themselves, right? Because they stop growing. And then growth gives us the opportunity to give. And I think, look, everybody can be selfish.

But when people say human beings are selfish, we can be selfish. I've certainly been selfish, but that's not who we are. And my proof to that would be, look at what people do when they have a great experience. When something transforms you, when something is so joyous, the first thing we want to do, share with somebody we love. Why is that? Because you can only have so much pleasure in the body by yourself, right? From, you know, achievement, acknowledgement, success, money, drugs, alcohol, rock and roll,

whatever it is that floats your boat. But there's only so much we can hold inside. But when we grow and we give something. Then our life has a different form of meaning. It's not about just being happy every moment. If you're happy every moment, your face hurts. You know, we've all experienced that. But what you want is meaning, then life is beautiful.

So I'm pretty obsessed with trying to bring that to people as much as I possibly can. I love it, Tony. Such awesome information. It pains me to transition away from such deep thought and like such motivation for people. But, you know, Stig and I just love finance. It's too much to stay off topic. You know what so great about that is? I don't care who you are.

Finance isn't everything. But when people are struggling financially, they have problems in their relationships. They struggle financially. They snap at their kids and they feel bad about it. They struggle financially. They beat themselves up internally. When they struggle financially, it helps them physically. So I think this is one of the areas of life, body, emotions, relationship, spirit.

But it's one of the areas we've got a master. And I'm grateful you guys are doing this. And I'm grateful so many people listen to you. Because I know you guys both minds, hearts and the way you move and the way you teach is not for your own personal gain. And there's nothing wrong with people gaining from their business. Don't get me wrong. But I know your true incentives because I've listened to a couple of podcasts and I've read about some things you guys written. I've talked to people that have interacted in your shows. And they all talk about your absolute sincerity and your

desire to serve. So that's why I feel like we're brothers on the path. I can't tell you how much of that means. That just made my month. Tony, so in your book, the first time I read through this and I'm going to hold this up to the screen so you can see my yellow highlight here. I like that. My dog tagged or my earmarked page for this particular quote because I loved this quote. And this came from Jack Bogle in your book. And the end of the quote says you put up 100% of the capital. You took 100% of the risk and you got 33% of the return.

Explain to our audience what Jack's talking about here in your book. This is, first of all, This is what I was saying earlier about the system. I mean, when I met Jack, one of the first things he said to me is this after we spent, you know, he invited me for 30 minutes and I was there for four and a half hours. He said at the end, he gave a quote saying, you know, I invited Tony over for 20 minutes or 30 minutes, and he goes four hours later. I had the most intense interview of my 65 year career, but we became good friends.

And one of the things he said to me is Tony. He said, you really, I think could educate people. And he said, if you're going to make a difference, you've got to show people the impact of fees. He said, especially in the 401k space everywhere. But in the 401K space, because that's where 90% of Americans have their money. It's in their home and it's in their 401k space. And the abuse in the system is just insane. So before I answer your question, let me get people up, a context.

Here are these companies. Imagine let's take 401K where everybody puts their money. The majority of Americans put their money. It's a $6 trillion dollar industry with a T trillion. Up until four years ago, they didn't have to tell you what they're charging you. What industry on the face of the earth can take your money without telling you what it is and you'd accept it. And as a result of that, 71% of Americans still think their 401k has no fees.

There's no bigger lie on the planet. And so four and a half years ago, almost five years ago, the Department of Labor changed the rule and said, you have to show people what they're being charged, which is like exciting. But how did the industry respond? They're not going to give up this cash flow. So they come up with 30 to 50 page disclosure documents that if you got a PhD in finance, maybe after four hours you can find all the hidden fees, which are usually about 17 of them. You know, Forbes put out an article that shows the average person in their 401k is paying

3.25%. They'll get Vanguard and they'll charge you two and a half points hidden inside there. Management fees, they call it. Vanguard, you can get for, you know, five basis points, five one hundreds of a percent for those that understand what I'm talking about. That's like, do you want to buy a Honda cord for $30,000 or would you rather pay $800,000 to the same car? There are people living next door to each other paying thousands percent more than the person next door for the same product. So you can solve this if you wake up. So here's what Jack was explaining. The average fees, Jack went really conservative. He said, what if the average fees are only two and a half percent? He goes, I know they're more. But let's be super conservative.

Over an investor's lifetime, that puts 80 percent of the compound of returns in the hands of the manager, not the investor, and yet most people put their money in a mutual fund. But what happens is 96 percent of all mutual funds don't match the market. They fail to match the market. So you're paying all these fees for nothing, for underperformance. And it's going to somebody who's not doing anything to your advantage. I mean, here's how it works. And I'll give you the math now. So Jack said, think of it this way.

Let's assume that you make a one-time investment of $10,000 age 20. And it's going to grow in the market at 7%. The market's produced 8% over the last 20 years. We'll call it 7% to be conservative. He said, you know, by the time you get to the retirement age like me, that's $574,464. But if you pay 2.5% in fees, and most people are paying three and a half, you give you an idea. But total management fees and the other expenses also compound. And so you end up not with $574,000, you end up with $140,000 in the same period.

So you put up 100% of the capital, you took 100% of the risk. They got $439,000, you got $140,000. That's 77% of your returns are going to somebody else who's usually underperforming. It's insane. So this is the big underpinning that if you talk to somebody like Jack Vogel or David Swenson at Yale, who's the greatest institutional investor of all time, you'll tell you the greatest rip-off on the planet are these mutual funds. And it's all because there's no way they can beat the market after fees. It just doesn't matter how smart these guys are, and they're not that smart.

You look at the hedge fund industry. I mean, it's been decimated in the last six or seven years because it doesn't match the market. They charge 2% plus 20% of your profits. It's the biggest scam on the planet. Unless you got a Ray Dalio or Carl Icon or, you know, a Warren Buffett. Outside of that, these guys, there's a few players that are unicorns in the whole world. The rest of them do not win over time. So, Tony, in continuation of that discussion, I would like to talk about your first book, Money Master

the Game back from 2015. One of the key concepts that Preston I took away from that book was Redalio's All-Wither portfolio mix. You talk about how stocks were only one among several asset classes. Now, in Unshakeable, the main focus is on stocks, even though that you also briefly mention other asset classes and how you can mix that into your portfolio. But regardless, what has changed, if anything, in the markets? And say that you are reasset investor, then you do not follow the market like on a day-to-day

or even a year-by-year basis, but you just want that passive approach. What should you do? I just interviewed Ray Dalio again yesterday. Ray's a dear friend now. And for people who don't know, Ray, I think most of your audience probably does. He's the most, you know, you think about investors. He's one of those successful investors in the history of the world. He's the most successful hedge fund investor in the history of the world,

return more capital to investors than anyone alive. So pretty brilliant man. And he just wrote a book that your audience would probably enjoy. And if they go to Principles.com, he wrote a book called Principles, but he has a new book that is on the market crashes. It's really a template of all the market crashes in the last 100 years. And he shows how he navigated in 2008, so many other times successfully, when everybody else was decimated. So I think if they want to go deeper than my conversation, raise a good place to go.

The reason I put less of him in Unshakeable is just I wanted to go from 70 and 60 pages down at 250 that you could do in a weekend. So I still mention it. But yes, the market is highly valued right now. But here's what I've learned for context I think is really important. Nobody. Nobody successfully calls the market over time. Nobody. You know, Warren Buffett is not a market guy. He's a value guy. And he will tell you he's going to be wrong. Every one of the smartest men in the room, they're not the CNBC commentators that tell you they know what they're doing. Every one of them says to me, this is what I think, but I know I'm going to be wrong. So they do four things. And then I want to create context for you that, you know, Ray Dalio is a, you know, completely different investor than Jack Bogle, then David Smenston, then Bert Malkul, then Carl Eichon. They all. They all. do it differently. But what they all had to come over four things. One, they all are obsessed with not losing money. And they don't do that by trying to time the market. Like if you talk to Ray right now, yesterday he told me, he said, listen, where we are in the business cycle, he says,

I could be wrong, but I don't see it 2008. Here's why. But I do know in the next two, probably, maybe three years, we're going to have a significant correction because that's the business cycle, and this one's been extended for a long time. And he gave us all the reasons. But he can be dead. He could be dead wrong. He knows he can be dead wrong. So the way they defend that, is what I teach is, you know, the most important financial decision is to become an investor, to become an owner, not just a consumer, but the most important investment decision bar none that every one of these men agree with and women, the way you protect yourself as asset allocation. As Ray said it, you know, everybody has a favorite investment.

If you grew up as a kid and your family was constantly rehabbing homes to try to make money, then real estate's your gig because you were reinforced forever. If somebody gave you a stock at 12 and you still own it, you're a stock guy. But I don't care what asset class you have or how smart you are or how well you've done over time. There is a day when that asset class, every asset class will drop 50 to 70%. And if that's later in your life, you're completely screwed. So we all know we got to diversify. But it's really how much goes it, you know, in risk assets where the upside's unlimited but the downside's unlimited.

What percentage of those assets go in less risky environments that have less return, but through time can still compound? And as you well know, that has to do with when do you need the money? you know, what's your risk tolerance and, you know, how much access to you? Cash flow are factors that influence that. But the first thing is, most investors are obsessed with trying to make money. These guys, to a man and to a woman, are obsessed with not losing money because they know if I lose 50% in a market, it doesn't take 50% to get even. If you had 100 grand and you ask the average person, you lost 50%, how much do you got to get

to back? I'll say 50%. No, if you had 100 grand and drops to 50, now you do 50% improvement. You're at 75. you're still 25,000 in the hole. It takes 100% improvement. So these guys know that, and they defend it by asset allocation

because they know they're going to be wrong. Second, they're all obsessed with this whole concept of, how do I get the least amount of risk with the most amount of return? Right. And so this mindset, most people think billionaires are people that took gigantic risks and they got lucky or they had balls of steel

and test of fortitude. That's not how 99% of them do it. They all do this by, looking at things and saying, I want to have a risk ratio where I am really, I'm asymmetrical. I have asymmetrical risk reward, very little risk with gigantic potential upside if it works. So, for example, I've coached for Paul Tudor Jones for 24 years, not lost money in 24 years at what he does. Pretty amazing. How does he do it?

Well, part of it is, you know, when I met him, he had some challenges and he'd left one of the principles. I dug it out that he had lived by, and it was five to one. If I'm going to risk a dollar, I want to try and make five. I know I'm going to be wrong a lot of the time, but if I'm wrong, I can risk another dollar. I'm still making a ton of money on five. He can be wrong four times out of five and still be okay, whereas the average person is trying to get that 10 or 12 percent.

He knows he's not going to get every time, but he goes for it. I'll give you a better example. Kyle Bass, you guys probably know of, pretty famous because in, you know, the worst economic time in the last, you know, 80 years, you know, in the middle of 2008, 2009, he took $30 million and converted into $2 billion. How do he do it? Well, he bet against real. estate. Everybody thought real estate's going to go up forever. He bet against it. But here's the

brilliant part. He structured his bets with asymmetrical risk reward, which means he never risked more than six cents to make a dollar. You can be wrong 15 times and still make money. That's how you take $30 million to make $2 billion in the worst economic time in history. Or one more example would be Richard Branson. I'm lucky enough to be friends with him. And he's such a genius. But if you look at Richard, this is a guy everybody thinks huge risk taker. And he is with his life. I mean, four or five months ago, almost died on bicycle accident. He's gone balloon accidents, both accidents. He puts his life on the line.

But he never does that investing. His whole thing is, what's the downside? That's the way where he starts. He doesn't want to lose money. And he's obsessed with asymmetrical risk reward. And so when he was starting virgin, big risky thing, you're going to take on one of the biggest British airlines and you're going to buy 10 Boeing jets.

So what he did was he negotiated for one full year with Boeing until he got them to agree that if he did not make it in business in the first three years, you give all the planes back with no economic loss to himself. So look at this. No downside, 100% upside. Well, that makes your business a lot more comfortable to run than where most people do. Third thing they all agree on is they really want to make sure they're tax efficient because they know it's not the dollars you earn.

It's the dollars you keep. So I train all the people that work with me. Tell me what it really is after taxes and after all fees. That's all that really matters, the spendable dollars. You know, you guys know compounding. You take a dollar and you double it for 20 times, you know, $1.00. $2, $4, $8,000, it becomes a million and $28,000. But if you just pay 33% in tax each year, most people you say, well, what would that be?

If 33% tax, and I end up with a million and $40,000, what will I end up with? And people go, well, see, 33% tax, or 33% of, you know, a million is $700,000. So you're probably, you're going to still, you'll lose $33,000, you're going to have $700,000. No, in compounding, you compound the cost. they end up with $28,000 instead of a million and $48,000. If you're just paying 33% tax. So these guys don't start with tax. Starting to invest based on taxes is stupid.

That's not investing. You're getting involved in a scam. But if you found a good investment, believe you're not going to lose money and you're diversified enough. You've got the right asset allocation. And you've got some asymmetrical risk ward. Now you want to keep as much as you can. And so they focus on all the ways to do that.

And then finally, the fourth one is really one we all know. It's diversification. They're obsessed with it. They want to diversify obviously amongst assets. They don't fall in that trap. I love real estate. I love stocks. They have to diversify because they know they're going to be wrong.

But they diversify across assets, nothing in just real estate or just some, but they also diversify within assets. I don't have one piece of real estate that I put everything in, obviously. They diversify across countries and they diversify across time because you're going to have some timing that's going to be off. But if you diversify in all those ways, even in the last decade, remember where the S&P was basically flat for a 10. years, you know, if you diversified across indexes across multiple countries, you know,

and if you dollar cost average your investments as an example, just those two diversifications across time and across location, you made an average of 7% compounded through time, even in the last decade. So there's always a way to win if you understand these dynamics. And all these people are different, but these four things are in common. Don't lose money, asset allocation. Make sure you look for as much asymmetrical risk reward as possible. Be tax efficient so you keep more dollars and diversify your tailwomen.

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All right. Back to the show. And perhaps, Tony, if we can add a fifth point to this list, we could talk about biases. It seems like all of us, even the best investors. Since they're human, they are prone to biases, whether it's confirmation bias or confidence, reason to be bias, is really just to mention a few. And you're also a very successful investor in your own right. So I'm curious to hear, based on your own experiences. And of course, also the interactions you have for these high-powered super-powered super-powered,

investors, how do you and how do they combat biases and which type of impact has it had on that portfolio when they have not been successful? I'm pretty obsessed with not letting these biases affect me. And I've gotten much better at that in the last seven years since I started on this with this group of people because, you know, when you're around a guy like Ray Dalio, you know, who's, he made money in 2008, when everybody was losing everything, right? He's, you know, had a, what, a 23% compound of return over 21 years. I mean, and he's, you know, he's, when I went to go interview him, I, we were interrupted

because he had take a call from the Chinese prime minister, right? He's managing money for China. You know, it's like, this is a pretty wild thing. And so when he says to me, Tony, you know, what kills everybody in business is, you know, confirmation, you know, all the different bias, the confirmation bias. Everybody looks for other ideas right, right, to confirm it. And he goes, Tony, it'll kill you. He goes, I am obsessed with finding people who are very smart, not anybody, because anybody

will disagree with you. He'll go on the web. Everybody thinks they're a genius. But somebody's super qualified as much as I am, but diametrically, I should say, opposed to what I'm doing and wants to argue with me about it. I want to see. He seeks those people out every day of his life. If you know anything about his culture at his company, it's not for the weak at heart.

And everybody's job is destroy somebody else's idea and prove it there because only the best survive. And so that mindset has helped me immensely because, you know, when I had the beginning, like, my worst investment was when I was like 23 or 22, I think it was 23. And I lived in Marina del Rey and I was just starting to grow a little bit, make a little bit of money. And there was a place that Marina Del Rey in LA is kind of a high-end beach community, a lot of wealthy people there. And there's a little place around the corner called the Barron's Cleaners. And, you know, that was the place where every celebrity went. And so I went there just to be inspired, you know, to leave my clean, but see the people coming in and out.

And one day this woman drives up in a brand new Rolls-Royce convertible, you know, and she's gorgeous and getting all these clothes. And so I walked up to her and I said, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I said, I can't help but notice you're obviously quite successful. What are you or you and your husband do? And she said, my husband and I saw I was heartbroken. And then she said, we own a penny stock company. And I said, you got any tips. So I love the dumbest ass thing you could possibly do. She's making money because they're taking fees like crazy.

It's not their investments. And so she gave me a tip and I put all the money I had in it, which was like, I don't know, $4,000, $3,800 or something like that. And I lost it all. I went to zero, right? I think my good fortune is that I've had painful experiences early on that were small enough that it made me sensitized. And then I got trained by the best people.

So, you know, what could be the mistake I'll make today? I've got some brilliant RIAs that I work with. you know, I'm partners with, and I bounce everything off them, but I also have the privilege if I'm thinking about an oil investment, you know, I get to call T-Boon, you know, he's the oil oracle. If I'm looking at where is the market going, I can go from anybody from Paul Tudor Jones to Ray Dalio to Carl Icon, and these are the people that, you know, I'm able to call friends now. So it's hard to mess up.

In fact, and I have to say most of it was from the implementation of the same systemic thinking that made these guys great investors on the business side. I'm a product of the people that I work with. far from perfect, but so far things are going really well because I'm surrounded by the best people and I don't make decisions on my own or think I'm the smartest guy in the room because I'm not. The way you started there and you were talking about confirmation bias and how Ray had kind of suggested that was one of the ones at the top of the list. For me, I felt like I learned a lot about all these biases by studying Robert Chaldeini. I'm assuming you're a fan of Robert Chaldeen.

I'm a big fan of Chaldini for 30 years. Is there anyone else that you've read through the years that you would put at par or that could also complement some of that information that Robert Chaldini puts out. Well, there's so many books that, you know, like the Nudge type books and so forth that will also give you additional tools. But I don't think there's anybody in his class. I interviewed him, gosh, he was 35 years ago for the first time when he first was, you know, at Arizona speaking and, you know, and teaching these principles.

I think it was even before influence was out and he came out with influence. But I don't think there's anybody better. I highly recommend that book to anyone to understand those unconscious. tools. But I also think more of his focus is understanding the unconscious tools that trigger you to feel like you're forced to do something, social proof reciprocation, all those things. I think it's really important for you to study the best investors and you guys interview them so you guys are a great source of it. In Money Master game, you know, I did 10 of those interviews with some of the best in the world because when you start seeing are patterns that not only what not to do, that's part of it,

but also what to do. And I think you need both. You need the guardrail so you don't go off the cliff, you also know where to steer. You know, I learned to become a racer when I was in my 20s and, you know, went to racing school and I'll never forget. I got what I went to Laguna Saka, not far from you guys are. I got with his driver is one of the best in the world and became a good friend. He goes, I'm going to show you what a car can do and he sticks me in this car. And, you know, if you go to Laguna Seca, there's this area where you go, it's a corkshire, you go straight at a wall and go around it. We're going 165 miles an hour straight at a wall. And he showed me what a car could do at the end, he goes, you know what? In four days,

you're going to do that too. And I was like, dude, I mean, this is insane. He goes, Tony, we're not going to have you do that corkscrew on your own. I'm going to be beside you and we're going to put you in a spin car. And there's a great metaphor. He goes, before, if you're going to be a great driver, I don't care if you're the best driver on earth, there's going to be a situation out of your control. There's going to be somebody's car breaks up in front of you or their tire is going to go through, you know, toward your windshield, or there's going to be oil on the track you can't see in a wet environment. He's going to say, so the most important skill in racing is coming out of a spin. And as he's speaking, I'm thinking, that's the best metaphor for life because everyone does well when it's going

well. What do you do when you're in a spin, when things aren't working, when you can crash? And he goes, all you got to remember is, we're going to be in a car. You're going to drive at 120 miles an hour, and you're going to find out how much concentration that really takes. You know, people think, you know, drivers aren't athletes. They are. You're sweating just in the concentration and your muscles are flexed. Everything's going. He goes, the minute you lose certainty or lose focus, everybody does, I got four buttons on the right here. And I want to touch one of those buttons and it'll lift up one of these four wheels and we're going to spin out of control in that direction. He goes, now, here's what you got to do. He goes, everything in you's going

to want to look at the wall because, A, if we hit the wall, minimum there's going to be damage you're going to have to pay for and really bad, we die. And he goes, and I'm not in control you are. So he said, you're going to have to really focus. But here's the key. Come out of a spin. Focus on where you want to go. Don't focus on what you're afraid of. And I thought to myself, no problem. right but then i'm going 125 miles an hour at a wall and all of a sudden it was a little bit of concentration he pushes that button we're spinning out of the wall and what do i do i immediately look at the wall because wherever you look is where you steer now he's going to save both our lives so he physically grabs my head and shoves it to the left where we need to turn

well i'm fighting him because i want to see the death happen right it's like and so but because he keeps shoving my head i steer to the left where my head goes is where you steer and now you're doing the right thing. But you don't get immediately rewarded. That's the problem in life. You ate like a pig for 30 years. You dieted for five days. How can I lose more weight? Well, dude, you haven't done this very long, right? And so you're still heading to the wall. So your gut wants to look at it. But he held my head and sure enough, the final seconds, you know, I'm thinking it's two inches in the wall. It's more like 10 feet. And my heart's beating out of me. He goes, did you get it? I go, I got it. I didn't get squat. He took a dozen times for me to learn to just train myself to look

away. Now, here's why I tell you the story. Here's my question. If you focus on what you want, are you guaranteed to get it? No. No. But if you focus on the wall, are you guaranteed to hit the wall? Pretty high probability. So what we have to train ourselves to do is focus on what it is we really want, as investors, as human beings, and not focus on what we're afraid of it. And not because we're guaranteed success, but because we're guaranteed failure if you focus on what you don't want.

Yeah. Tony, what a story. Man, it just gives you such a visual on how. you can apply that to so many different things that are going on in your life. So I really appreciated that story. Of course. Thank you for your time. Sir, seriously. Thank you guys. I've really enjoyed our time together. Thank you for your time. I know your time is extremely valuable. And we just want to give you an opportunity to give a handoff to anything that you want to talk about. That's your passion. Well, my, you know, my biggest passion is feeding people. So I think of people listening in, we've already mentioned it.

If you'll pick up this book for yourself, I think you'll find great value for you. I know you will, but also we'll feed 50 families. And once again, if you care about this personally and you want to donate $10, $100, a million, up to $4 million, I'll match it if you go to feedingamerica.org for slash, I believe it's Tony Robbins, and we can help feed some people together. I'm also doing an XPRIZE because I want to feed a billion people sustainably around the world. And so we're bringing some of the smartest minds together and put together a $15 or $20 million prize. We're still refining it in that area.

And then, you know, if you care about other subjects, there's a great group of people that I work with, you know, slavery and human trafficking is with more people enslaved today than any time in human history, a smaller percentage of the population, but more people. And it makes me insane. If it was your daughter, what would you do? So I work with a group called Underground Railroad,

which is former FBI, Seal Team 6, and CIA members that go into different countries and train the police how to capture these guys. I've actually gone on these undercover with them. And it is mind-boggling what can be done. So whether you care about slavery or food or anything, find something you really care about and make that donation because I can tell you, I don't know anybody. You know, I entered Sir John Templeton about this many times.

And he said this to me. He goes, I've never met anybody that's tithed. There doesn't have to be religious who's taken 10% of their income and given it away over a decade who hasn't become incredibly abundant financially. And I think that most people, when they hear about it, donations or things like this or philanthropists. They go, yeah, well, easy for them. If you're not willing to give a dime out of a dollar, you're not going to give a hundred million out of a billion. I had an experience one day where I was young and I was building my

businesses and once again, overestimating what I could do in the year and frustrated. And it was around midnight. I was driving on this place called the 57 freebie in Pomona, California, in Southern California, not a nice place at the time. And I was so frustrated. I was asking myself, I was driving at midnight. You know, why am I not succeeding? Why is this not happening. And then I all of a sudden I pulled over literally on the side of the freeway and I keep physical hard journals. I still have this journal. And I wrote one sentence on a full page. I wrote the secret the living is giving. And I burst into tears. And I just realized, hey, when I started this business, it was all about serving and helping people. And now I'm

frustrated and I'm not succeeding. It's all about me. And I just realized that's why I was so unhappy and that's why it wasn't going to the level I was. And it takes time to build something, you know. And that started to turn the quarter, but about three months later, I was still in tough financial place. I wasn't in a bad psychological place, but I just wasn't resourceful enough yet. And I had, I don't know, 19, 20, 21 bucks. It was around $21. It was all in change and small bills, you know. And I couldn't pay my rent.

I'm living this 400 square foot bachelor apartment in Venice, washing my dishes in the bathtub and eating on this hot plate on top of a trash can. It was just, it was terrible. So I went to this place called El Torito because it was a top. You could have tacos and burritos and salad. I'm just going to load up on these carbs. And I left my car at home. I walked three miles to it. It's not a big walk, but I didn't want to pay for the parking.

It's like you only got $21 or $19, whatever it was. So I go and I load up. I eat like crazy and I'm looking out, you know, I went there also because there's these yachts that go by and that was the completely more opposite than my lifestyle. Just remind me there are people doing well, even though you're not, buddy. So you're missing at something. And so sure enough, I finished the meal. And right as I'm finishing this gorgeous woman walks in.

I couldn't help but no, she's just really beautiful. But then I'm waiting to see the guy she's with, and the door behind her, holding the door as a person half her size. And it's his little boy, and he's probably eight, nine years old, third or fourth grade, if I remember right. And he's wearing a suit and tie and a little vest and held the door for his mom and hold out the chair for her and sat down and gave her total presence. Like you could just see, he was not distracted.

He was there for his mom. And I don't know something about it, just moved me. And so I was on the verge of tears. I don't even know why. it just triggered something in me. And so I wouldn't paid for my meal, you know, when it was $5.95. So I don't know, maybe I had $16, $17 left,

whatever it really was at the time. And so I walked up this little boy, and I didn't look at his mom. And I just shook his hand and I introduced myself. And I said, what's your name? And I think it was, I can't remember. It's been somebody. I think it was Charlie.

And so Charlie had said, you're a class act. I said, you know, I saw how you held the door open for your lady here and how you held the chair for her and how you're so present with her. And I said, that's a man. You're here taking her to lunch. And I said, then it's even more impressive. And he goes, well, I'm not taking a lunch because, you know, I don't have a job yet.

And I said, yes, you are taking a lunch. I had no plan to do this. I just reached in my pocket spontaneously, took all the money I had on earth, it's 14, 15, 16 bucks, whatever, and some change. Put it on the table in front of him. And he looked up and his eyes got really big. And he goes, I can't accept that. I said, yes, you can.

He goes, how come? I said, because I'm bigger than you are. And I started to laugh. And he giggled. And I didn't even look at his mom. I just, I didn't do it for that. I walked out of that room, the restaurant, no car, and I kind of skipped home. I probably looked like a total idiot.

I was high as a kite. And, you know, I should have been like, what the F did you just do? You don't have any money for your next meal, right? And that's the way my mind had always been, like scarcity. Yeah. And I went home and I had no fear. I can't even explain it to you. I woke up the next morning.

I knew I had no money, you know, and I had no meal. And I was like, well, fasting, I get fasting for a few days. And I wasn't stressed at all. And then this unbelievable gift comes to me. And the mail, snail mail in those days, right, traditional mail. I get the mail from the mailman around noon, haven't eaten a thing, not worried about it. And I open up all these bills, which is a little depressing. But then I get this personal note, I undo it and read it.

And it's this man I loaned $1,000 to three years before who was desperate. I didn't have a lot of money, but I loaned it to him. I chased him for six months because I needed the money so bad. He wouldn't even return my phone calls. And he writes me this long letter apologizing saying, you were there for me when I needed it. And I wasn't there for you. but I am now and he gave me like $200 of interest. So I had $1,200.

In those days, that would last me three, four weeks, right? So I'm sitting here reading this letter, crying my eyes out and just feeling such grace and it's like, okay, so why did this happen? I don't know why it happened, but here's what I decided. It happened because grace came to me because I did what was right. I didn't do it for a woman's attention. I didn't do it for any reason except it was the right thing to do. I knew in that moment it was the right thing to do.

It was a decision made with no fear. Because, you know, I have a lot of companies now in the early days. Some of these companies were on the verge of bankruptcy during some tough times. I didn't bankrupt any of them, but it was so on the edge. And even in those days, I never went back to this scarcity. I had challenges, but I never had the fear. And so I planted my seeds when I had nothing, and they gave me abundance. And so your listeners, they have something.

To teach your brain, there's more than enough. And put a systemic way of giving back to something you can. I don't give it's five bucks or ten bucks because I talk about this in the book. Nothing gives you more joy. Nothing changes your biochemistry because we can measure what happens to you hormonally in your mouth literally minute by minute these days than giving. You know, if you buy something for yourself, nothing wrong with that, but things don't hold your happiness very long. If you buy experiences, you know, learning experiences, travel, think with your family, those have a longer resonance of joy. But all the research shows, it's not just my philosophy that we are made to

give because when we give, even if you bought coffee for four people in line, you don't know, the joy in that person's body will be there for a minimum of 24 hours, usually multiple days. You buy something, there's a hit. Maybe when you get in it, there's another hit. But after some short period of time, it doesn't give you the same hit. Plus, it's just not meaningful. So my hope is that the people listening will say, I want to do well and I want to do good. And I don't have to wait until I do well to do good.

I can do good now, and that will help me do well, because it'll shift my own. psychology. It'll make things richer and more. So I hope people are inspired by this conversation. I know most your audience probably already is huge givers. But why not do a bit more? Do a bit more just to remind yourself what you're capable of. And I know you cannot give like this and not receive on a massive scale. You cannot not prosper if your life is about adding value to other people's lives. And I hope the people here will take advantage at least of the book for themselves and maybe be inspired by that so they can change their own life. If they don't do anything else, I'm still going to 50 families for their effort in reading the book.

Thank you, Tony. This was just amazing. Thank you so much for our time today. Thank you guys. I really enjoyed it. Listen, if you want to come to an event sometime as my guest, I'd love to have you. So I'm doing an event in New York in November. If you guys want to come as my guest, we'll have 14,000 people there and it'll knock your

success. Oh, my Lord. Look on my website. Anytime you want to come, reach out to me and I'll have you guys. Love to meet you in person. If there's anything we can do to help you, Tony, seriously. If there's anything we can do with the marketing of. you know, the movie that you're working on, anything, please let us know. We want to help you in any way we can.

You guys are really kind. I will become good friends. I'll look forward to meeting you personally sometime soon. All right, guys. That was all that Preston and I had for this week's episode of The Investors Podcast. We see each other again next week. Thanks for listening to TIP. To access the show notes, courses or forums, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. To get your questions played on the show, go to Ask the Investors and win a free subscription to any of our courses on TIP Academy. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making investment decisions, consult a professional.

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