WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - CDR David Fravor - The Best UFO Witness Ever?

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

In November 2004, one of the most powerful and sophisticated naval armadas in the world had its maneuvers repeatedly interrupted by unknown intruders. The USS Nimitz carrier group was jam-packed with high-tech sensor systems, but over a period of two weeks those sensors were repeatedly stymied by the appearance and disappearance of unidentified objects in the vicinity of the fleet. CDR David Fravor, the highly esteemed leader of the Navy's best aviators, the Strike Fighter Squadron 41 (also known as the "Black Aces”), was directed to pursue one of the mystery objects. Fravor's encounter with a craft now known as the TIC TAC UFO, might be the most important UAP incident of all time - even though the case was not formally investigated until six years later. When details about the encounter were first exposed to the public in 2017, Fravor's life changed forever. What was learned during the subsequent investigation, and why is Fravor considered by many to be the most credible UFO witness ever? Years before Fravor's story was reported by the New York Times, the veteran aviator shared the details with Jeremy and George. In this episode, WEAPONIZED revisits the TIC TAC UFO case - and the aviator whose close encounter launched a global demand for further disclosures. GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail] For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. The very first case that they investigated was the Tic Tac. The person, we can now say, the person who got that assignment was a guy named Jay Stratton. The key to that hearing was a guy named Dave Fravor. Now we've known Dave Fravor for a long time. We knew him before we could talk about him. He oozes credibility.

Surveillance of journalists and, you know, phones being listened to and things of that sort, which sounds like something out of a movie, but is real. It's happened to me before, and I think it's probably happening to a variety of journalists and investigators right now. And when that comes out, and it should come out, somebody should go to jail for it. I heard one estimate of 40 whistleblowers or thereabouts in the wings ready to go. What kind of state of readiness do you believe tonight those people are in? Armed to the teeth. Secrets, cover-ups, and strange phenomena.

UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself. All these mysteries, all this time, are we ever going to get to the bottom of these? My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't. I'm Jeremy Corbell, and for some reason, people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is weaponized. This is weaponized. I'm George Knapp, joined by Jeremy Corbelle.

Jeremy, are you having stylists come to your house to deal with that beard? Is that what's happening? Look, man, the beard is this special thing in the morning, wake up, don't jump in the shower, just slap your face a bunch and pull your hair down. That's what I do. Yeah. Looks good. See, if you had this just barely stubble gray thing that I've got dealing with, you wouldn't

have to worry about having a stylist come to the house and deal with it. Don't you have a saying from all your years of journalism, people would echo it in the holes of your network, which was fear the beards? Yeah, it's true. There's reasons for that. I thought maybe today we might take a little stroll down memory lane to an extent by talking about a really special guy. You know, the world is still sort of trying to absorb the meaning, the impact of that congressional hearing held in Washington, D.C. just days ago. And the three witnesses who appeared have generated reams of media coverage around the world. Dave Grush, I think, is getting the bulk of that coverage because of the sensational

nature of things that he disclosed. But for me, the key to that hearing was a guy named Dave Fravor. And we've known Dave Fravor for a long time. We knew him before we could talk about him. And I say that to me, the most important guy is him because he oozes credibility. You know, I know that for a lot of people, they think the story of the Tick-Tick-Tick-Tick, the Nimitz incident is old news, but it's important to establish a baseline that this phenomena is real. And Dave, I think, was the most credible guy of that three, and they're all three credible.

The story that he tells about his encounter with an advanced technology from somewhere else is maybe the most important UFO case of all time. I think he is the most important witness in the most important UFO case of all time, because without Dave and his testimony, Without the video of what he saw, it was recorded by Commander Underwood, I don't think that this story would have nearly the legs that it does. New York Times could still have broken a piece in December 2017, but Fravor was central to the credibility of that piece. He is central to the credibility of the larger narrative of military encounters with unknown objects, UAP. and I thought that his appearance before Congress was essential to that committee members being convinced that this is really something worth investigating.

Absolutely. So just to be clear to like, so Commander David Fraber is now a long time friend and a friend of ours. And the thing is, is that we're, we just decided probably, what was it, 30 minutes ago that this is going to be the topic that we thought our audience needs to best remember and hear about. Normally, we would have Commander Fravor on here to speak for himself directly. And I'm sure we will at some point. Again, he's a friend. I mean, he called me a pest on national news in front of everybody. You know what I mean? Like, so we, you know, he gets mad at me,

but I pull him back in like the mafia to talk about UFOs. But, you know, he just did something big. Not going to bother him. But what we do have, George, we got a couple pieces of information that I think our audience is going to really appreciate. And the world, I'm just. general should hear it because yes commander favor is beyond uh he's impenetrable he is just a guy that engaged ufo from the ice his military you know head of the black aces all of that bio is going to be in what you hear today but check this out because of a tip you gave me and because um i go a little crazy on things i was able to get to commander favor to get him to talk and we kept his secret george we did that He openly admitted that for years, kept his secret.

But what he did was gave the first audio interview where they'll hear our audience. We'll hear some of that recording. I mean, first time he ever went public in full soup to nuts about what he experienced. That's an audio form. We're going to share some of that. But also video, the first time he ever went ever on camera about this was with you and me. And we did it together where you were interviewing him on stage. We were kind of like taking questions and going from there.

So I'm really excited to kind of reshare this with the public because he is a badass motherfucker. Fans of the Tom Cruise top gun movies. They know the reputation of naval aviators. Those guys who flew those F-15s, the best aviators in the world. Dave Fraver was the commander of the Black Aces Squadron. So he is the best aviator in the group of the best. best aviators in the service that has the best aviators. He's Tom Cruise times 10.

He's the real deal. You know, you hear we've talked to other members of that squad, people who were colleagues of Dave back at the time and have known him since. And they speak in reverent tones about him because he is so credible. He knows that airplane inside and out. He knows the technology. He knows the difference between, say, some unknown object that he sees. flying in the skies across off of Southern California and say a seagull or a commercial jet or

flare, he certainly knows all that. And, you know, he has mad respect from the people who knew him and flew with him. He has mad respect from the congressional members and staff who heard from him and has our mad respect as well. Yeah, definitely. Besides having a great sense of humor and always giving me shit. He's one of the most experienced fighter pilots in all of American history that is beyond a shadow of a doubt. You know, kind of big shout out to VFA 41 because that is the black aces. And, you know, on the 14th of November of that year that is now so famous in 2004 for the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group, you know, that's the story we now know as the tick-tack UFO. And we had on our friend and Commander Fraver's friend, but also somebody that took orders from Commander Fraver.

And that was Commander Chad Underwood. And we just had him on two weaponized episodes ago. So now we're going to fill in that void and we're going to fill in that link, you know, Commander Fravor flying a Super Hornet, the FAA 18, and just look, I want to put something in perspective before you hear from him. you got a guy that is out on a regular training mission that he gets a call and they say real world tasking they're like oh it's go time now something two things you don't know about command of favor and i can tell you one of them one is that you don't know that i can tell you is he was protecting america right after the nine eleven attacks

over los angeles and he told me that he told me that that and I think that's public. We're cool. So this is a guy that our country trusts to protect us right after 9-11 in the airspace over Los Angeles. Something you don't know that I can't tell you is what his current job is. Maybe it's because I don't know. But what I do know is this. I do know that whatever he's doing now allowed him to say three things accurately. When he told Congress that we did not have that technology in 2004. We do not have that technology that I engaged today. And we are not even looking to make anything near that technology

within the next 10 years of our development for national defense from an aerospace aeronautics engineering perspective, all I can say is I'm pretty damn sure that he would be in a position to know that information. So with that said, that's commander. David Fravor, a friend of ours, a patriot, a badass fighter pilot who trusted us with a secret that we kept. And now I'm so excited people get to hear from him. All right.

Well, this is the first interview who ever did, a recorded audio interview, set up the circumstances that led to it. And then let's hear it. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at yamava Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino,

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Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. The people that say things like you saw a bird, you have a mistaken identity that was a conventional military drone. It was just radar scatter. What do you say to people or what would you say to people that have that opinion? Well, everyone's going to have their opinion, but then again, I'd argue with anyone to come and discredit what we saw, me, or what was going on,

and the fact that there's a lot of internet experts, I call them, you know, and it is what it is. And that's fine, everyone has that. I don't have time to answer or rebut everyone. But after 18 years of flying, I would argue the fact that if all you got to do is type on the computer and trying to defeat someone, then I'm not going to sit and argue with him.

I'm not going to take the time. but I will tell you there are some extremely brilliant, brilliant people in the world that are extremely interested in this incident and other incidents to try and do something about it instead of trying to debunk poke holes and say it isn't this, it isn't bad, it's a spot on the array. I mean, everyone's an expert, you know, but because you've seen a ship or you've seen an airplane or you watch Men in Black does not make you a UFO expert, I mean, I honestly saw one,

and I don't consider myself an expert, and I think, really, if anyone's going to be one, I think it'd be the four of us that actually chased it. The active jamming occurred on the flight where they picked up the video, the Fleer video. That's when he reported... That's correct. He picked up a return. He went to attempted a lock. It immediately jam the radar.

So what's the importance of that statement? What's the importance of the idea of active jamming compared to passive jamming? What does that mean for people to understand? Well, the more than active is mean they actively tried to jam the radar. which you're actually not supposed to do that unless you're in a war or we're in a training scenario against each other Okay, but I'd just like to just define the point

So what you're saying is that that is a kind of hostile action When you're talking about active jamming Yeah, active jamming over radar is a hostile action And the Tick-Tac actively jammed the radar That's correct What do you hope will happen from you speaking publicly About your experience? I hope people take these serious.

I hope people stop. You know, we knew we were going to get ridiculed. And it was kind of, it was all in fun. You know, there was nothing bad about it. But to get people to understand that there, you know, we can learn from these things instead of thinking that everyone that sees one is crazy. It's going to be difficult to discredit the four of us that saw it just based on our position and what we were doing.

You know, now you, it is public. So you kind of gave me a tip and you're like, you know, do your worst. And I'm like, cool. So I was able to earn the truck. of Commander Fravor over time, you know, going through people he knew was able to find him. And I knew if I could get him to talk with me and be open with me about it, it would be an incredible interview. However, I knew I could never report on it because he would always tell me that.

He goes, do not say anything. You know, I'm like, okay, cool, no problem. But tell me, tell me, tell me. So he did. Now, earning his trust as he probably just saw me as a UFO reporter. It's like this weird. Maybe I am. Maybe I am just a UFO reporter.

But that's how he saw me because some crazy UFO guy calls him. But he quickly learned that that's that I'm coming at this because I want to know. Of course, with you, you've got so many other things you've done. So you've got a little bit of shielding there. So you're not misbranded all the time. But earning his trust was not easy, but I did it. And then that was years of conversations. And I told him over and over and over again.

Look, man, no one's ever going to learn your secret. from me. But the world is going to learn it. It's going to be huge. And once they learn it, there's no going back. You're not going to be able to just walk away, tell your story, mic drop, walk away. That ain't happening just so you know. And he was like, to this day, he doesn't get it. He does at times, but he doesn't get that like, this is never going away. So this interview that you get to hear parts of is be very, first time from soup to nuts, as they say, he went through the entire experience. And I'm so excited to be able to share this again with people.

I know, I know, Commander Fravor. And I have been talking for quite some time, you know, obviously before your story broke the internet over and over and over again. Well, I was privileged to be able to hear directly from Commander Fraver about his experience. And that was really an important moment. You know, I got some good intel. on the events and it was very impactful for me to hear his story at what I'm so excited about today, the first and only he says time, he's doing anything like this, is today. So I'm glad that you're here. Just everybody referred to you as this credible individual who's a straight shooter and

you're gonna have no chance at hell at talking with him. You gotta talk pilot and they're trying to coach me how to call you, like Paco, right? Trying to coach me how to call you. You know, at that time, you didn't, I don't think you realized how important to people, like people here around the world, your experience was. You kind of pushed me off and I was like, dude, this is coming out, it's coming out big sometime. It might not be this year, but it'll be next.

And that happened. It happened to you. Your face was plastered all around the media. George has done numerous news reports on your story. So I just want to know as a human being, as somebody there's not. everybody finds extremely credible. What is that like to go from anonymous individual pretty much to being plastered all over the global media? What does that feel like to someone like you? So funny. So I got to fill in some games. So my friend Paco has a blog. It's called FighterSweep.

I don't know anyone out there read FighterSuite. He's the first one that wrote about this. That's how Jeremy found it. He bugged me and bugged me. bug me. So one of the guys I used to fly within A6 is we're all friends because Paco is A6 guy with me. So he, he, I was talking to this guy, Matt. Matt goes back, tells Paco, Paco calls me. And he's obsessed with it. He's like, really, I got to know about this. So I call him back one day. I said, hey, what do you need? And he goes, hang on, I'm putting you on speakerphone. I said, you're what? He says, I'm putting you on speakerphone. I said, why? He says, well, I'm having a dinner party. You got to tell the story. So, so, so I,

I'm laughing, I tell a story. Then he starts bugging me, hey, he wants to write about it. He wants to write about it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. And like my kids, you pester long enough. I'll eventually give in just to shut you up. So I let him do it. And then next thing you know, he calls me and he says, hey, there's a guy I wants to talk to you.

And I'm actually kind of quiet, you know, in my real life. I like to have my privacy. So he says, hey, will you talk to this guy? So I said, yeah, and that was Jeremy. And Jeremy, I've been talking for, God, about, oh, long. longer than that. Yeah, it's about seven or eight years we've been talking. So a significant amount of time that him and I have been going back and forth.

He kept saying, oh, this is going to be big. Hey, I want to do a story. I kept, no, no, no. No, no. No. So then what happens is there was four of us, and we're going to get into it, but there was four of us that actually visually saw this thing for over five minutes. So it's not, we'll talk about all the videos and I'll give you guys all the specifics.

So you'll be first person here safe, so you can go, I heard it from him. All right. be credible and there's actually two tapes there's a radar tape and then the targeting flare tape the radar tape you guys have never seen and no one probably will ever see it because we don't know where it's all at and then the stuff that was on taken off of a classified drive and put on YouTube and some other things so there was something below the surface that was causing the ways to break on top when we went back we could not find it at all and this thing

a rendezvous a docking you're especially Well, very much. But I mean, there's a relationship between the Tic Tac and what was under the water. I think so. As I told Good Morning America, they asked me and they said, I said, well, it was communicating with the whales like Star Trek. And they actually put that on their broadcast. So, so, I don't know what was down there.

I don't know if it was actually communicating, but if you want to speculate that it's, that's how we find it. We would have never seen, because it's not that, you know, you think, God, it's 40 feet long, it's a white tic-tac. You'd be amazed that things that you don't see, because our eyes are queued to motion. So if it was just sitting still, there's probably a really good chance we'd have never seen it. But as it was doing this, that motion tracks, you know, you ever watch, you guys have rabbits, get coyotes around here. When the first thing the rabbit does when the coyote shows up is sits there, it doesn't move

because the coyotes actually track the motion. If the rabbit runs, the coyote's locked in, they wait until the coyote. gets closer and then they run but sometimes they'll sit there and then the animals will move on so it's kind of that as we're watching it we're trying to get queued in and when it's moving you go and literally so you see the disturbance and you see this bright white thing moving around you go what that is that where the guys are talking and it starts to rotate you know it looks like a kind of a saucer with the things sticking on top and bottom does this okay so I talked to one of

the crews that was out there doing that that was out there when the video was shot if you understand what you're looking at it's because people are could be an airplane. No, it couldn't be. If you actually, and there's debunkers that say, oh, it's this, it's not. Usually when an airplane rolls this point, there's this thing that keeps us flying their wings, and wings create lift. When you go like this, there is no lift. If you don't pull, it does this, right?

So really, in theory, like a 90-degree angle of bank, who's seen the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds when they did, they're really not totally at 90. They use a little rudder and they can do some things to keep the airplane as it flies by. Their knife heads pass. But truly at 0 degrees or 90 degrees angle bank, there is zero lift being created and the airplane will start to descend. The airplane, it just sits there. So if it does, it has to put G on and then you're going to see an aspect change like this. So if it's this way, you're going to see this or you're going to see this.

In that video, you don't see any change. It just sits there. And it rolls around like this. It doesn't move. You get no aspect change at all. It's not an airplane that we know. No. No, actually, they almost hit one.

There's a couple things I see. This is all off Virginia, by the way. It's the Vakeapes. There's whiskey areas out there too. That's where NAS Oceania goes out in trains. So they actually, there's a couple things. They've tracked them at just sitting there. They've tracked them at high rates of speed.

They've been tracked lots. The radars they're using now are even better than the ones that I had in the Super Hornet. It's pretty amazing. So more advanced technology, you know, you know, cooler stuff, more capable. They're seeing it. At first they thought they were, when they first saw it, they thought all these are just ghost hits.

And I'm like, now that radar really doesn't provide ghost hits, which are false targets. It's pretty good. And then someone actually threw their targeting pot out there, and there was something there, because you can't hide from the targeting pot if you've got any type of heat signature. And that's not really started this. But they've been seen by many people as far as on the radar.

And there's been a couple that have seen visual, because one guy almost hit one. It was just sitting there. This is recent. This is real reason. This is within the last five years. Did they describe these things as conventional aircraft or how did they describe these things they almost hit Dave? They describe it as well the one that almost got hit was like a clear beach ball sphere with a cube inside so the little apex of each corner hit the cube. So I don't know if it's like a you know is it a beach ball or is it like a force field I don't know.

There's something around it. They never they never this is this is kind of what's prompting I think they're getting heat from other avenues of the government because of what happened with our incident that, you know, hindsight being 2020, which is how I live my life. Yeah. Probably should have done something about it. You know, maybe put a little effort into this. If not to go figure out what can come in

and penetrate a battle group like that, but God, just, what if we can harness that technology? What if you can reverse engineer that technology? Very much what Bob was talking about to go, can we do this? Because a technology that would do that change change everything we do you can hide stuff for a period of time but eventually it the rumors are going to come out that you're going to start to to see something like this

and after 15 years you know we're we're still pumping diesel fuel and jet engines and sucking air and blowing it out the back to make us go and i'd go man if you have this self-driving cars Tesla so after the new york times story breaks in december of 2017 Dave Fravor is much in demand by media folks who want to follow up on these incredible stories. And of course, you know, as we know, he did not welcome that embrace of the media. He wasn't out to be a UFO celebrity. He did sit down for a couple of short little bursts of interviews, I think, on maybe CNN, maybe on Fox. But he didn't like it.

And as you've pointed out, we're the arm twisters when it comes to Dave. we pestered him about doing some things, and we told him about a really fun event. Here's a chance to do something really fun. McMinville, Oregon, that little town, which has its own long history associated with the UFO topic, puts on the McMinneman's company, puts on maybe the most fun UFO event of the year, the most fun community-wide that we've ever done. And I had spoken there before and told you guys about it. And then they had approached us about, hey, maybe Dave Fraber would do this.

We said, well, let us try to talk him into it. And we did. And we'd only talked him into making his first long-form interview on stage, his first and maybe only public appearance to talk about the Tick-Tac incident. We also talked to another friend of ours, Bob Wazar, into coming to that same event. Dave Politis was there too. And that gathering was momentous. So we remember the night before we went on stage with Dave, we got together in a hotel room with Lazar,

and they got into this big, long, detailed discussion, and they really hit it off. That's a side story for another time. But the next day, we introduced Dave on stage, do a live interview with him, the only public event I think he's ever done, and went into all the details about the Tic Tac and the subsequent events that happened as a result of that.

It was an amazing, as an amazing experience. It wasn't amazing. There's so many things that came up when you just said that. First of all, yes, there was this very cool private conversation where we're all in this room with Commander Fraibor and Lazzar, and they'd never met each other. And instantaneously, there were some things that they both recognized within one another that allowed them to have this really unique bond. Like we shouldn't have even been in the room. They were really, there was something going on there. It was really important that I hope they'll talk about. But it was just really cool to see that acknowledgement. Now, it was a heroic lift because you and I are the pests of these people.

We are the pest. We get them to show up. We get them to throw down. Look, man, I am totally cool with being the past. We are trying to get information out and public. So that event is so fun. I've got these cool clips that now we're talking about it. We've got to play some of these for people.

There is a UFO parade. I mean, I have never, I had never been in a UFO parade, George. And like, there we are going through this parade. And there's like photos and videos of just, it is so much fun. They only invite you once is the problem with McMenamins and the McMinville UFO Fest. Oh, but all of a sudden, there's George Knapp twice. There's George Knapp three times. It was crazy.

So obviously, you're somebody that they had a bunch. I hope they invite us again. I'm going to do everything in my power to get. invited again because it is so much fun. But yeah, we brought Bob Lazard and Commander David Fraver. Now, at that time, George, people didn't believe you about things. They didn't believe you that UFOs were being cited on a daily basis. Remember, the public was not caught up at all at that time. And there's Commander Fraver on stage. I mean, this is like a coup. There he is telling you stuff like, we might have met with people. I can tell you this. He said, we met with

people behind the scenes very serious people taking this very seriously which now we all obviously know but at that time we couldn't say exactly what and who and where this was going so looking back at it dude i get teary i think that is crazy to me so look man um what i'm going to do is this uh i haven't told command of favor that we're going to be talking about him because we just decided that 30 minutes ago so i'm gonna text i'm gonna actually i'll send a little video to him right now just showing him that we're recording this episode and ask if his ears are burning. I'm not looking for a response, but I feel like a duty to do this. I'm going to do a little video. And as you know, George, I don't like type in, so I send videos to everybody and you told me that's going to bite me in

the ass one day. Yeah. Okay. So you said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get long. Enough to get long. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay.

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Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visitpriceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. Hey, Commander Fravor, are your ears burning? I just want to show you something real quick. So 30 minutes ago, George and I were like, what does the world need to hear about?

What they need to hear about is kind of our friendship a little bit. So I'm talking with George right now. We're recording a weaponized right now. Don't call me. I'm not looking to talk with you unless you want to call me. But I just want to show you. Here's George Knapp. Right there. Dave, aren't you always glad when you get a message from Jeremy? You know it's going to be fun. Anyway, man, we're recording weaponized and we're just talking about you. I thought your ears would be burning, sending you love. I talk to you soon, brother. Let me send that to him. He'll probably call me all angry.

whatever i'll leave my phone on so if it dings um yeah so anyway so to explain that so it's like i don't like you know surprising people or anything like that and um commander framerer's a good friend good sense of humor likes to push on me and flex on me a little bit so i'll just say hey fraber you had the coolest boots at the hearings just so you know he had to see really cool boots on he's like yeah i'm talking and then i'm leaving i'm talking then leaving i've got a job to do jeremy it's called a job do you know what a job is he was like saying shit like that to me so he went right from the hearings went to like a satellite office or something and did a job so we didn't get to like have a beer after but we've talked you me and him kind of through text and everything and i think he's

really happy that he threw down i know that was not his impetus i know that he was just like you know look man why is this important it's important because people need to hear from you directly in this setting again. You have never been under oath in front of Congress on national television and told what it is that you know and experienced. Why don't you just do it just one more time for us, Dave? Just one more time. Yeah, he was, you really did have to twist his arm to do this because I know, I think he would like to move on from the UFO subject matter and put it behind him, but he knows that that's not ever going to happen, that it's always going to be something in the public eye. And the public does have a legitimate reason to be interested.

I remember before the hearing, we were talking with him in the sort of the green room prior to walking out into the hearing room. And he was saying, look, I'm going to tell the story, but they're not going to get out of me what they hope to get. I don't know what his anticipation was about what he expected them to want from him. You know, he's careful in the story that he tells. He doesn't leap to conclusions like, yes, these aliens are. from Krypton in the Ursa major constellation or something like that. He doesn't expound. He doesn't guess.

He just tells the facts of the story. And there enough. That encounter is enough. And if it was the only encounter in history, it's a pretty good one. And let me clarify for you because I know exactly what he was talking about. And I remember that exact moment when he kind of said that to us. I know, Dave. And what he was talking about is national security.

He is very serious about that. He's like, the public does not need to know everything. So he thought, maybe he thought, like, they were going to ask him questions. He couldn't answer. However, unambiguously, let's make sure people understand this. Unambiguously, he knows that what he saw, America, and no known for a nation that we're aware of made, that is unambiguous in his mind. And he said that himself, and he'll say it again, unambiguous.

Now, where it's from, what it is, what the, intent, all that stuff. He's theorized before he's talked about that, but his line is America. His line is national security. He will not cross that. That is real. And that is what he was talking about. And again, I don't know what he was expecting, kind of like what you just said. But that was the point when we're in that kind of green room, we're back there kind of shielding these witnesses from bad actors and from the insanity of it all, right, is just, you know, yeah, he's willing to tell. But I did notice my friend Dave.

I did notice. So he's a man that is very direct, and he'll answer specifically. But you've got to listen to what he's saying. Now, you notice sometimes he just hit the little red button we saw. So he knows his voices heard through the mic, and he'll be like, no. And hit it back. So he was trying to be as forthright and, have the right impression of exactly what he is trying to say. He wasn't hiding nothing. He was trying to let

people know. And so I really, man, if you watch his testimony again, if you watch that, you're going to learn a lot if you really think about it. You know, I've said before that I think he is the most important witness in the most important case of all time. And there's another reason why I consider that to be the most important is because of what it represents. In five years after the Tick-Tac incident, there had not been an official investigation. The Navy, whatever information they gathered, they threw it in a drawer and moved away, and they weren't going to deal with it anymore. They didn't want to deal with it. But a special program was created called Ossap, with the help of Harry Reid, two other U.S. senators. They put together $22 million, black budget money,

to kick this thing off. The contract was awarded to Robert Bigelow and a subsidiary of his company, Bigelow Aerospace, something called Bass. And the very first case that they investigated was the Tick-Tac. The person, we can now say, the person who got that assignment was a guy named Jay Stratton. Now, there was a report that he prepared. He went to meet with Dave and other witnesses. He put together this report. It's 13, 14 pages. The world had never seen it. But that was the first case investigated under Ossap. It became sort of the launching point for that program, the largest government-funded UFO investigation in history that we know of. And nearly all of what was produced by Ossap has never been made public. It was one of the points that you and I made to the committee

in our papers that we presented to that committee on the record. But there was something released. I released it in 2018 with permission. There's no insignia on this document. There's nobody that signs it, but we now know who produced it and what it was produced for. And it went into considerable detail about that Tick-Tack Nimitz incident and Dave Fravers' role in it. And it's a crucial piece of evidence. It's a crucial piece of information. Yeah. And also, just an interesting moment to clarify here is that, so you and I also, we got to be friends with Commander Chad Underwood. And Chad Underwood trusted us and allowed me to do a little. interview with him, his ever first filmed interview. And that was out on my YouTube before he came

on weaponized. And in that interview, he said something like, oh, yeah, I would, I have talked to you, Jeremy, more than any agency, any government entity, you know more. I have talked to you more than anybody. How many times you and I hear that? Like the depth with which we talk with people over years is so much more. So he says, yeah, I was never officially interviewed for that. And then people threw that back in his face saying, oh, he's lying because in this report that George put out, there's an interview. Well, let me tell you something the world doesn't know. He didn't know that he was being officially interviewed because it was for like an agency, the DIA, as you've kind of mentioned, into Bass, right, Ossap, Bass, DIA. It was conducted in a Chili's so he wouldn't

consider that a formalized interview, you know? So it's like you mystify stuff really quick when you realize that what they're doing is they're meeting, they're getting information. This is not something they're running around screaming, Ossap, that we're doing these investigations. This was a secret program, right, George? Yeah. And so the 13 or 14 page document that Jay Stratton created became sort of the centerpiece of a much broader investigation by BASP for Ossap. That, and, ended up being a huge report. I wanted to provide that to the committee. I'm not authorized to do it. It's not mine to give. And I know I've caught a lot of crap from that. I'm now part of the cover-up

because I won't violate a promise that I made or, you know, and release stuff that is not mine to release. I'd like that information to be made public. I'd like all of the OSAP reports and documents to be made public, but it's not mine to release. I don't have it. And I don't want to get myself in trouble, I don't want to get other people in trouble, this should be done through channels. Congress should go after that stuff and get it and release it legally, but it's not for me to do it. But that report is pretty substantial. And it built on the testimony that Dave Fravor and Underwood gave to Jay Stratton for that very first report. Let's talk about these two names that people need to understand more about. So that would be J. Stratton and Lekatsky.

But before we talk about them, let's just be really clear. Why did you not release the report? Why? I'm not authorized to do it. It's not mine. And more to the point is, you know, I've been allowed to see some things under the condition that I'm not make it public. I'm allowed to see it so that I know, I can know what is in there.

And it helps me navigate UFO world. I can figure out who's full of baloney and who isn't. It is useful for me to know that stuff, but I cannot release something in particular because of what it would do to other people who have helped me. I don't want somebody to get into trouble, lose their pension, go to jail because they shared some information with me

under condition that I not make it public or report on it. I don't want that on my conscience, and I would not violate that promise because once you do it, Once you violate that promise and you ignore the conditions under which you receive information, you will never get information like that again. And they would be right to cut me off. And so let's be really clear and honest with our audience, the American public and everything,

which is that it's so hard for people to understand until we can tell the full story, but we don't have a source. We don't have one source. The sources that come to us are not. the people we know that are our friends. If it was the people we know that are our friends, we wouldn't receive anything from them. But the people we know and are our friends, they would never cross that line. So the originator of the leaks to us are not the people that we know and associate with. And that's so hard for people to understand that it's like we have to

receive things multiple times, multiple times to like really be in possession of them and feel strongly about it. So people's minds will go crazy about like who leaks information to us. And the coolest thing, really for me, this is just between you and me, George, like, but I mean, I guess the world can't hear this. The coolest thing for me is that we have so many varietyed sources that come to us independently. Then you and I can fact check one another with our own separate, I don't know, circles that we're confident with something enough to bring into the public realm. So I think that's just really important for people to hear that you protected sources, but it's not who people might think. And that's what's so weird to me. And I wish we could

explain it and we just can't. But also, I wish to, like the American public, George, I wish I could really thoroughly and read that information. I want to know it too. So I I'm like with everybody else, which is that if I have the luxury of being able to do that, man, my brain would explode. But I know that you've seen some things and you can tell us and I trust, you know, that you'll tell us as much as you can about that kind of stuff, right? Yeah, and I will push for it to be released legally for the right channels. And it should be released.

There's no reason it shouldn't. It should be made public. And hopefully we've wet the appetite of members of Congress that they can go ahead and go after it because it's going to take their kind of authority to go and get it. Okay. And it's no secret that and people should really hear this is that on the second episode of weaponized, you were able, after many years to have a guy trust you named Jay Stratton, who you always tell people, it's not he was just part of a UFO program. He was in, he was the only guy that was in there when it took all these different forms. So you have these heroes that pop up like Lou Elizondo,

man, really took something, made something out of it. So J. Strand is a hero behind these scenes for what he tried to do for the American public. And I would also say so is in a different way, James Lackatsky. He's a co-author in a number of your books. I know that. But my experience, just so there's an independent experience out there in the world, is that this is a guy who's a patriot and has done some incredible, it sounds like, work, you know, for the American public, for the DIA. And one day I hope the totality of his story can also be told. I hope it's unweaponized. You know, yeah. Well, just to remind our listeners, Dr. Lakatsky is a long-time intelligence analyst who was working at DIA. He's a specialist in rockets. And he was working with Jay Stratton at DIA.

Jay had come over from the Navy and was working with him at DIA when they both read Hunt for the Skinwalker. And they became interested in this crazy place in North. Northeastern Utah, and Lakatsky eventually made a trip out there, met with Bob Bigelow, came back, met with Harry Reid, and proposed the creation of what became Ossap. And Jay Stratton was right there working with him on that program once it was authorized. But they knew each other before Ossap. They worked together during Ossap. Then Jay became a confidant to Lou Elizando in ATIP, which picked up the pieces after Ossap was gone. And they, Then Jay became the head of the UAP Task Force before it was called that, before it was formally

existed. When it was ratified and created by Congress, he was in charge of it, put together some incredible presentations, gathered information, met with the Joint Chiefs, with Congress, with defense contractors, tried to bring them up to speed about the importance of investigating UAP and how to recognize them and what to do with the information. Jay is the only person to be an Ossap, A-T-F, UAPTF, and a lot of the work that he did set the stage for what we now know as Arrow. I wish Jay were still involved. I wish he were in charge of Arrow, but he's not.

He's now working for a private company. But anyway, that sets the stage with Likkeski and Stratton. Now back to Dave. Okay, back to Dave. But can we play one more tiny clip of Jay Stratton's? your interview with Jay Stratton that we were at like probably not you got to ask him we probably don't have time before this comes out but it would be so neat to give the world the rest of that interview in the appropriate form because man he's somebody that we got to hear more from is Jay

Stratton so George before this comes out if we can play a clip another one of Jay we'll put it here if not let's talk about Fravor again yeah I don't I don't think we yeah because I haven't set the stage for that and I think he's a little nervous about it so yeah okay fair enough You can take a clip that we already aired and sticking in here. I think that's great. I think people need to go back and look at episode. I think it was two of weaponized. There was three.

Episode three of weaponized with Jay Stratton. I think they should go back and look at that. But here's a little clip so that people kind of get an impression of who Jay Stratton is and how he trusted you to do an interview with him first ever. Can you describe for me at what point UFOs they were called then, UAPs now? At what point that kind of got on your radar screen? And was it something you had at least a casual interest in growing up or it came a point in your professional career that it landed on your desk?

Yeah. Every time I've done anything related to UAP or UFO has been my job. And what I mean by that, I didn't really have a passion growing up. I didn't have all the books. I didn't watch all the TV shows. I stepped into a job at the Defense Intelligence Agency where some things came across the desk, again, and think in technologies and other things where I needed to really kind of dig in and understand potentials. And those potentials, you know, I kept an open mind, a skeptic mind, whatever

you want to call it, and looking for something that could answer this and all the means that I had to chase that. But there were definitely some times where we really couldn't close the loop. And with that, we realized that something needed to be done. about it back to dave fraber so commander david frabber uh american patriot american hero uh you know head of the black aces just all around badass i am so glad that he threw down at that hearing and i'm so glad that that that people were able to hear him under oath in that setting i'm really proud of him i'm proud of him as a friend for getting over his you know being bothered by it not even wanted to do this anymore but but doing it for public

good. Really appreciate that. And look, he's, you know, he's, he is probably one of the most important voices. He'll hate that we're saying this, but he's probably one of the most important voices in what's going on now this movement. So I got a question for you, George, where in conclusion, you know, we can wrap up here, but where does this go, George? Everybody's asking me, I've been ghosting the media. Everybody's asking me, where does this go from here? What's the next step? We were just told that our government allegedly has these back engineering programs for UFOs and there are biologicals associated with this. Oh my Lord. My mom is seeing this on TV. Where do we go from here, George? What's the next step? Well, a couple things. First, in the House, three members of that

subcommittee who were involved in that hearing have petitioned the Speaker of the House. Kevin McCarthy, for permission to create a special select committee that would have subpoena power to go after some of the things we heard about from the witnesses. Specifically, the kinds of things that really should boil the blood of every taxpayer in this country. That is that millions, untold millions, tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars that were approved for select special access programs, legitimate national security programs, that money was funneled into something else and that Congress was not allowed to know about it, not even the oversight function. They were not allowed to know about it. This money was pumped into something else that they were

not authorized to even know existed. They're mad about that. And it might take a special committee, a select committee, with subpoena powers, to get to the bottom of it. The investigation isn't necessarily about aliens or ETs or interdimensional or these non-human intelligence that Dave Grush spoke about. We don't even know who that is. And we don't really know. know if we'll ever understand it. But we need to get to the bottom of the special access programs and where that money has been funneled and the cover up issues, that should be enough. And if we get to the bottom of that, through that committee or something else, I think we'll have a much bigger, better understanding of the non-human intelligence that's been interacting with us,

apparently, for centuries. On the Senate side, we've heard hints from Marco Rubio that they've got something coming. He and Kirsten Gillibrand, they got a hearing coming of their own. Now, I don't know how soon that's going to be, but where they're going to drop some bombs with some additional witnesses. That's going to generate more media interest, more investigations on behalf of the public. And, you know, I think at some point, the White House is not going to be able to sit on the sidelines anymore. They're going to have to get involved, assuming the public and people like us help keep the pressure on that they need to dig into this. comes in all shapes and sizes.

At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Yeah, so you're getting me fired up right now. So what you're talking about, I do have specific knowledge about like, yeah, man, people are pushing. And you and I know that. Now, how that looks, one step at a time, one step at a time. But I got to do a big shout up to Representative Tim Burchett.

He is a true UFO, UAP transparency warrior. Every single single thing he said was going to happen, happen. I mean, we're talking about bipartisan. Turns out I think he and AOC are friends. They don't agree on nothing, but they are friends. And that was so cool to see. Big shout out to Representative Tim virtue for kicking some UFO and bureaucrat ass the other day, straight up.

There are some things that are very concerning to me that I have learned on our trip to D.C. that I just, you always tell me, you know, journalists should have a healthy paranoia. Wow, man. Wow. I didn't know. We're talking about fraud. We're talking about fraud to the American public on the deepest levels possible. That is happening right now. That is true. With that sense, that's why. And so on that note, we should have a church-style committee. The church committee for people that don't know, because I didn't know, tell I knew, was looking at the intelligence community's misconduct. It was a revolutionary moment where we found out about things that are not conspiracy and fantasy, but are fact, like programs called MK Ultra, which used psychedelic drugs and

manipulated citizens unknowingly drugging them. That was a power abused by the CIA. Additionally, we learned about things like Project Mockingbird where journalists like you and me being co-opted by an intelligence agency knowingly or unknowingly. And you and I are always on guard for that. And it turns out that's a real thing. And we should be on guard for it. So my mind was just kind of blown open when it was like the depth with which. So I take people through this now.

I go, okay, mom, tell my mom, if you just believe UFOs are real. Let's just go there. Let's pretend for one second. You believe you have Osir. And then, okay, if you agree with me that we would study that shit and we have been, let's just leap in logic. And then we've been covering it up. I just need you to be on me with those three things.

If you just agree with me for a second, that's possible. Do you think, this is the fourth step, do you think for one second that those individuals, those factions wouldn't do things absolutely unconstitutionally illegal right now today? That's that leap people have to make because I'm sorry to report. Like it really makes me sad and mad that that is happening right now. Those pressures are real on witnesses on all that stuff. One last thing. I was told I have avoided the media.

I have avoided going on the media as much as I can and I have avoided reading anything. Straight up, haven't opened an email other than yours, George, and like a couple family members up until now. Weeks. What I did hear was that AOC threw down that she did some rant where she is talking to a camera, eating a salad or something and talking about this topic. And I thought, oh my gosh, how great is this? She was fired up, but not, it has nothing to do with UFOs and aliens. She is fired up that if there is misappropriation of funds, which is theft, that they're going to get to the bottom of it.

So if we can play a part of that, that'd be great. I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard all about it. Did you see that? Let me start off this whole UAP discussion by just stating the obvious, which is that people don't trust the government. And why would you? We're spending trillions of dollars over years on military budgets that can't pass an audit, and half of which go to a bunch of private companies that are price gouging the public and engaged in corrupt activity. We know that that's true because we've uncovered it in the past.

Yeah, it did. Yeah, she is fired up, and I'm glad to see it. And she should be. And other members of Congress should be as well. I mean, you know, I mentioned about the tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars misappropriated covered up. But there's other aspects to this that are equally disturbing. Disinformation and propaganda.

Dave Grush spoke about ongoing efforts to mislead the public on this topic. That's happening now. Surveillance. Surveillance of potential whistleblowers, threats against potential whistleblowers, surveillance of journalists and, you know, phones being listened to and things of that sort, which sounds like something out of a movie, but is real. It's happened to me before, and I think it's probably happening to a variety of journalists and investigators right now. And when that comes out, and it should come out, somebody should go to jail for it.

They should go to jail. And it will come out because good journalists always have proof for the things they say, whether or not they release it at this time. So with that said, let's end on a light note. Man, I'm so excited kind of where we're at because this is the first time where I do not have any idea what is possible anymore. Now, anything is possible about uncovering the truth

because I just want to know. I just want to know what are UFOs? What do they represent to humanity? I don't even care where they're from. I want to know what it represents to humanity, meaning is it more than something we're just seeing now, or is it something that has influenced our own development? These are the big questions, but I really want to know.

Well, we've come a long way in the past five and a half years. As I've said before, it's now a cliche. I never thought I would live to see this much progress. But it's just to start. There is a long way to go. And believe me, the people who are the keepers of the secrets are not going down without a fight. And the closer we, the public, gets to the goodies, the real stuff, the saucers, the metamaterials, the biological remains, the closer we get to that, the harder they're going to fight. There's a long way to go.

And victory is not assured. So people got to keep the pedal to the metal. I said let's end on a good note. So you're coming right back at me with that. Just being realistic here. Just being realistic. Don't get overconfident. You know, the public shouldn't think that, okay, the work here is done.

There is a long way to go. Okay. So you're right. And we're going to end on that note in that we're not going to just, you know, say, yeah, everything's great. It's going to be great. I'm so excited. Can't wait to see what happens.

We need to protect the truth. We need to protect David Grush. because how he is treated now, how David Grush is treated now, is going to determine if we're ever going to be able to verify the hundred important things that he said. Like we've verified a lot, George, but the public hasn't yet. So how David Grush is treated, the public needs to protect him. And the way to protect him is to be loud, to be bold, and to talk about it, to have the conversation.

because he is the kind of like the thumb in the dam right now for stuff. And it's like in order for this information to come out in a controlled way, we need to protect the right to assess what he told people. And that's where we're at. And that's pretty scary, but that's where we're at. Well, as we know, Dave is confident, wants to go forward. He's not backing down. I think some of the people, the other people in that circle are watching closely, but they're

ready to come forward to. Some of them already have. When that stuff comes spilling out, it'll be a good day for the public. And on that note, I guess that's sort of semi-optimistic, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit. Okay. On that note, we'll call it a day for this episode, and we've got some good stuff coming up in the weeks ahead. All right. Thanks so much, George. living. Following this and webinar, the presentation of Jeremy Corbelle, George Knapp, Dark Course Entertainment, Cadence 13 Studios. Available now

for free on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your shows.