WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - Confessions Of A UFO Insider - The David Grusch Revelations

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

Recently-retired intelligence officer David Grusch did not want to become a UFO whistleblower. Grusch spent much of his life protecting the most sensitive secrets in the world, many of them housed inside Special Access Programs that were unknown, even to congressional overseers. When Grusch uncovered evidence of illegal activity within the intelligence community, related to UFO operations and programs, he reported his suspicions to the appropriate authorities and hoped that higher-ups would address the allegations. Instead, he became a target himself. Shadowy operatives inside the intelligence community and in league with powerful defense contractors, tried to silence, punish, and discredit him. Grusch not only learned startling truths about UFO research by government employees, but also uncovered evidence of a massive and ongoing disinformation effort created to mislead congress, the media, and the public. Days ago, Grusch stepped out of the shadows and spoke publicly for the first time. UFOs are real, he says, and they are here. More than a year ago, Grusch sought the advice of journalists George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell. In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy and George tell the inside story of their friendship with Grusch, why he risked everything by coming forward, and about other government insiders and whistleblowers who are prepared to follow in Grusch's footsteps. NOTE: Be sure to go to WeaponizedPodcast.com to view the documents described in this episode. GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail] For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. I got to explain why I'm so excited right now, right? Like, I am excited because, man, it's been hard to keep people's trust and keep our mouth shut. If people believe Dave or not is not going to be an issue. It's either true or it's not true. One of the things that was shared with us in the early going, and it was shared with the understanding we would not make it public until or unless he gave the okay for it.

It was to, it was documentation that showed what he was going through back then. And I guess we should maybe make it public. There have been references to these documents in some of the news coverage that's happened so far, but nobody has released the document, so I think we should. Secrets, cover-ups, and strange phenomena. phenomena. UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself. All these mysteries, all this time. Are we ever going to get to the bottom of these? My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't.

I'm Jeremy Corbell, and for some reason people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is weaponized. This is weaponized. This past week, an atomic bomb was dropped on UFO world by a veteran intelligence officer, a guy who had the highest levels of security clearances in our government, a loyal, trusted public servant, a military veteran, a guy with an impeccable record. His name is David Grush. Jeremy, we've been wanting to talk about Dave for a while. I am so excited the world has finally heard what we have heard and known for some time and that we can openly talk about this. Why were we holding on to this? Let's tell people about, sure. Let's tell people about first who is David Grush?

Well, he's worked at the highest levels of the intelligence community, has the highest security clearances. He works for an organization that's a three-letter agency, but it's not all that well-known, NGA, right? So check it out. There's NRO, National Reconnaissance Office, and you have the NGA, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. This is an interesting relationship between these two agencies. So with the NRO, you have a lot of equipment, right?

You have a lot of hardware. You also have within the NGA, you've got a lot of analysts and people with high access, cross-platform of compartmentalization that can look at that information. Not everybody, but people have that. What we know is that David Grush is who he says he is. What we know is that David Grush was in the position that he says he was in. What we know is that David Grush had the access that he claims to have. What we know is that David Grush was officially tasked by the UAPTF, which is the UAPTF,

which is the UAP task force at that time, specifically to look into compartmentalized stovepipe, black budget, secret SAP, special access programs. And it was uniquely qualified to do that because, his role before there was any UAP allegations or investigations, he oversaw something like 2000 SAP special access programs of all kinds. Yeah, Dave Grush had access and the ability to, because of his kind of extreme capability to have access to these intelligence people and programs. He was tasked to find out is something being hidden?

something about UAP being hidden. So because of his, I mean, it's just like an ultra access to this. He was able to start doing official classified interviews with direct individuals involved in these programs. And part of his responsibility is because of his, he was a liaison to the UAP task force. That was his job. That's right. That's right. So in official capacity, Dave Grush was doing his job. And in doing his job, he started to discover some incredible illegal activity.

Look, nobody wants to be a whistleblower and especially doesn't want to be forced to come forward. David Grush has tried to do this legally. He's tried to do it the best way he could. And he has succeeded. He has never disclosed, to my knowledge, anything that is classified. He has been very clear on getting this information before. arrow existed, getting this information out to the public, sorry, getting this information into the proper investigatory channels, specifically the intelligence communities inspector general,

as well as people like Avril Haynes who have authority, right, have authority to read the classified version. So he has never, in my knowledge, breached any of his duties as a patriot, as somebody that knows that there have been illegal programs. Now, when he discovered this, when he discovered that there was illegal activity, extraterrestrial or not, he did the right thing, and he reported it the right way. We should say this, is that, you know, the story came out in the debrief. It was written by Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kane. Those two had worked on the big 2017 story in the New York Times.

So they had a track record. I think they tried to get it in different places with Dave's permission. It didn't get published where they maybe had hoped that would get published, but it came out in the debrief, and then Ross Coltart, a friend of ours, he gets the on-camera interview, and it explodes. And, of course, the story is it spread to media all over the world since then. And people have asked, well, if you guys knew Dave, why didn't you do this story? So why don't you explain how we met him?

and why we didn't do the story. Yeah, that's, so first of all, big high five to Ross Colt Hart. Big high five to Leslie and Ralph. And I don't, I know that it wasn't the projected trajectory of bringing Dave's account forward to the public, that there were sacrifices having to be made. I know that there were loose lips that required, you know, an action of getting this information public and forward. The reason why, a lot of people ask it,

the reason why we didn't report on this prior, just let me do, let me go through a couple things here. You had pre-knowledge of the United States, now acknowledged government UFO program for, let's just say, a long time. You stepped out of the way to allow that to be reported through the New York Times. Did that burn, did that hurt in any way?

Oh, to this day. Yeah, of course it hurts. Why? Well, I wanted to be able to break that story. It was something I knew about for a long time. I'd given my word that I wouldn't break it until somebody gave me the green light. And when the green light was given, it was not to me. It was to somebody else. And I could have broken the story. Well, it was really worked out pretty well. It was better for the New York Times to break it. So it wasn't a UFO reporter in Las Vegas doing another UFO story. It carried a lot more weight, given the that it was the paper of record. So to be clear, for public interest, you put your ego aside and allowed that story to be broke by somebody else and other people in a publication because you're not the New York Times. That is correct. Yeah, I know I'm not the New York Times.

I reluctantly had to admit that to myself. But I also knew, it's not entirely selfless, I also knew I knew enough about that program, which was misnamed ATIP in the articles. It was actually called ASAP. I knew enough about that program that I'd be able to do additional stories and fill in the blanks that other people did not know.

So it wasn't exactly an altruistic thing that I had sacrificed. Okay, so you knew you could clarify, you found out that it wasn't quite accurate, and being able to correct the record is of value because it shows the integrity of your reporting. I get that, not- And I get to keep my word to the people

who shared this information with me. Yeah. Right, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about keeping your word. So you'll recall, you know, even though we did break that story before the New York Times, we didn't use any names. My promise to Commander Fravor, maybe for four years, we're talking before this goes out, and we promised that his name and that story wouldn't be identified specifically.

So we sat, and people could say we sat on that, but we did our best within the parameters we had, but what we did is we kept the trust of a source. And look, people, they want to break stories, but sometimes all, the time keeping your word and your trust you what's the thing you always say about trust the way to become trusted is to actually be trustworthy right it sounds very fundamental so so here's the deal with commander frayver how he found out that his name was out in the public and i warned him i told him he will attest to this that it was going to come out there's no putting this back but it wouldn't be for me how he found out his name was public a call

He was at work. I said, do you know? He says, no what? Oh my God. So, but that moment, right, where for all that time, we kept that trust, that allowed other people to come forward. Dave Grush approached us first. And Dave Grush, I mean, the first person outside the intelligence community or the Inspector General of Intelligence of intelligence came to us. Now, why did he come to us? And why did we not spill beans right

there, George? Well, let's confess this right off the bat. We wish that we had broken this story. I mean, we'd like to be the first to come out of the gate with this story, because it's a big story. But we didn't really think we would eventually get that opportunity. Dave came to us because he needed help. And he shared certain things with us. at the SCU conference back in June of 2022, started our conversation with him. But we had an agreement with him. We were never going to go public with this

unless he gave us the green light. And we understood from the beginning that if he had to go public, there were other platforms that he preferred to go with other than us. Right. We are the UFO guys. We can't get past that.

We broke some big stories. And there is a part of me, of course, saying, yeah, we'd love to tell this full story right now. Like for the last, it's actually 14 months is when the first understanding of who Dave was to the point when he first came physically with documents in hand to you in a bar, which will explain in a second why is the bar. But I also knew this whole time through, I talked to Dave all the time. He's become a friend through the vetting process, to be honest, right?

But I knew from day one that if he had to go public, that there are ways in which that could be most beneficial to the public interest, to public good. We've talked through the whole way along. It started optimal. You know, everybody wants something in the New York Times. Hey, New York Times, how about just covering the news? How about that? It's amazing to me to see these agencies asking me now, how do we cover this UFO? thing. We've never done it right. Okay, well, now you've acknowledged it. It's like Commander Fraber

said he's the funniest thing he texted me the other day. Commander Fravor said, the United States government is like an alcoholic with UFOs. I go, what are you talking about? And he's like, you got to admit there's a problem before you can start dealing with it. So this idea that of how a story of this magnitude, which people can, they need to judge it, they need to ask for proof. But how does that story get out to the public? That was the whole thing. That was the whole thing. It started with maybe it would, you know, maybe it would get to the New York Times. Maybe we'd get here.

Maybe we'd get there. And then ultimately, he was out in, man. His name got into the public space. He was forced to come forward in this way rather than just being in through the channels. But now here's the deal. He did it because he has legitimate, legitimate reprisal issues, threats. We were at the SCU conference in Huntsville, Alabama. We went down there. It's a great event. A lot of really interesting people live in that community, working in defense programs, intelligence operations. And it was a great excuse for a lot of those folks to get together. And we were invited and we went along. We took a camera. And it's held in this little place. It's like a club and a bar. And we're in there. And your shooting video, your buddy Niles is shooting video at the exact moment when Dave Grush introduced himself.

That's so amazing now looking at this in hindsight because you didn't really tell me exactly what we're doing. You had some people that you wanted us to meet with and to record with. And one of those people was Jay Stratton. The world hadn't known anything at that point. The world at large had not known anything. But we were also told well in advance that there were other people that are in position to know that we may be approached by or we may meet. And man, I, yeah, let's just be honest. It sounds so crazy, but it's true.

I brought my buddy Niles Harrison. We've covered that in another episode. And he was filming. And little did I know as he's filming at this public event. There's not supposed to be cameras there, but they allowed us. So thank you, SCU. I got that moment. Niles got that moment when Dave Gresh leans over to you for the first time.

Unknown to the world, right? This is a year ago, over a year ago. and starts talking with you. And that's when that Pandora's box, by the way, we ended up meeting out at a bar with Gary Nolan, who's awesome, and we ended up like just having a couple of drinks and talking. That's when it really sunk in.

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When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Where are we going? I don't know. It's top secret mission. George Knapp doesn't tell me anything. He abducts me and make sure I travel

and I get there okay with my toothpaste. And then I don't know. He's about to tell me. So a lot of us have. happened in Princeville, Alabama. And it's about to get real fucking interesting. I mean, you know, Dave is not coming forward to us or I think to anyone else because he wants to be a whistleblower because he wants a lot of attention. I can imagine what his life is like right now. This story that went worldwide over the last week or so is not a pleasant experience

for him. It is not something that he wanted. I'll bet it feels like a meat grinder right now for now for him, all this attention, for a guy who's lived and worked and operated in the shadows for all of his adult life and his entire intelligence career, it's very uncomfortable for him, and including all the scurrilous attacks that are inevitable in UFO world. But when he approached us to talk, he was already frightened about where this was going. He was concerned about the direction of the investigation and information that was being withheld, right? I respect Dave so much because he held to that line. He held to that point of what is inappropriate to say and inappropriate to convey and what is appropriate. So he came because he was worried about his

well-being straight up and hopefully he'll tell that story at some point. But our job was to vet. Is this some sham? Is this a guy? Is this some big conspiracy by some slow disclosure or a fake alien thing? and I get it that people think that. But our job for 14 months, 12 months in particular, was to not tell this information. That's the promise we made. That's the promise we kept. But we have hard physical documentation

of some of this important stuff. One of the things that was shared with us in the early going, and it was shared with the understanding we would not make it public until or unless he gave the okay for it. It was to, it was documentation that showed what he was going through back then. And I guess we should maybe make it public.

There have been references to these documents in some of the news coverage that's happened so far. But nobody has released the document. So I think we should. Like a readable version, this is the unclassified inspector general of intelligence community official whistleblower complaint that we now know it was deemed both. credible and urgent. So this is dated May 25th, 2022. So it had been submitted to the Inspector General's office of the DNI,

of the Office of National Intelligence, just about a week or so before we met Dave there. But it had been going on in his life for a lot longer than that. And I know for a fact that this was handed to the office of Averill Haynes, who's the head of DNI, this information in full classified form is in the possession, has been in the possession of the people that need to know about it. The complaint reads in part, Section 3.

Mr. Grush had direct knowledge of intelligence community elements that have purposely and intentionally withheld and or concealed UAP-related classified information from the U.S. Congress. He has direct knowledge that this classified information has been withheld or concealed by the involved I.C. elements to purposely and have been. and intentionally thwart legitimate congressional oversight of the UAP program. And he states further in part four. In July of 2021, full year, 11 months before we ever met him,

Mr. Grush confidentially provided UAP-related classified information to the Department of Defense Inspector General. At that time, he communicated classified information about the improper withholding and concealment of classified material from Congress He believes that his identity and the fact of his UAP-related communications with the DOD Inspector General have been disclosed to individuals and entities outside the DOD IG, and he has suffered retaliation because of it. He says, since his protected disclosures to the Inspector General, Mr. Grush has been subjected to numerous adverse security clearance actions. Those actions have unfairly impugned his integrity, his characters. judgment, professionalism, and mental health. They got right down to it with them, punching them in the

gut as much as they could. While he remains security cleared by the NGA, his compartmentalized access to numerous other IC elements has been mysteriously and apparently without plausible explanation, canceled, delayed, denied, or improperly obstructed. He has reason to believe that many recent issues with his access are directly related to his previous UAP protected communications. Basically, he's doing his job. He passes information about UAP programs up the chain command, and as a result of doing his job, they come after. That's right.

And we're talking about specifically a legacy or multiple legacy UFO exploitation programs, reverse engineering, and here are the, the claims, non-terrestrial, not made here on Earth. What some people would say, alien. That's the claim from hardware all the way I think we're going to learn to bodies. Now, a couple things. What have we been doing for the last 14 months, if not reporting on this? I want to explain that, right? So we get it. You keep a promise. Great. However, you don't just just jump into a story because you learned about it two months ago. I'm going to be honest.

I'm the human intel guy in our friendship, right? I'm going to go after people, try to understand through unknown sources to the public. Is this guy who he claims to be? Now, that takes time on a story this big. So you and I have been working on this to the point where we can independently verify that this complaint, by the way, that his lawyer was, used to be Inspector General of the intelligence community. that's pretty big dog. Now, if they separate ways now, we'll talk, we'll let, we'll let other people

talk about that, what that could mean. But here's the deal, man. When you're looking at a case like this and you are vetting somebody, you got to do it right from a personal standpoint, all the way up through any sources you have in a community. So over that time, what we've been trying to do is make sure that Dave not only is who he says he has had the access he said and had the role and title and job, which we confirmed all of that. Who is he? he as a person because all of this is going to hinge. Is he telling the truth? That's what the public is going to need to know in order to absorb the veracity of these claims. So look, man, I'm just going to speak openly and personally. Dave is who he says he is. He's a man of character.

He's a man of integrity. He's never crossed the line. He parses his words. He makes sure that he does it right? And God damn, I'm proud of him. As a friend now, he's a friend now. I'm proud of him. You know, we got to meet him then and it started a conversation that's going on ever since. You know, he was talking to us there, but since then, he's talked to you on almost daily basis, weekly basis. Yeah, every week, for sure, sometimes a barrage per day. I can attest to the fact, first of all, Dave's a good guy, right? And he's a good one. He's a good guy. But he's also good at his job. He's good as an intelligence agent.

We had some really weird insights into some of the shenanigans and reprisals and all that. I mean, look, it got to the point where when I'm investigating somebody, right, when I'm trying to figure it out, he came and stayed with me. So he can't, you know, that's part of it, is trying to learn who this person is. Now, this is not highly advertised, but they've had some very serious and I would know. never want them, but he had some obligations in his duties. He has worked hard for our country. So he is doing what he's doing because it is just, it is right, it's speaking truth to power. That's his exact words to me. So yeah, our correspondence, our digging, our talking is durational. It went deep. And on a personal level, I wanted to know what is this person made out of?

Kind of like, you know, people don't make these connections, but kind of like Lazar. That's how, that's how I started, is I just wanted to know, is the guy worthy of my trust? And then that was the whole investigation. So that's the question people can ask, is Dave worthy of your trust? Now, what he said is different than what Lazar said, because it sounds other than Lazar specifically, worked on hardware himself is the account, we can prove or disprove. It can be proved or disprove what Dave came across, what he has, what he stumbled upon, what was hard of him to be convinced of, even though we'd all like this to be true. He wants to know too. Yeah. Well, let's get into some of the things that he has said and some of the criticisms that have surfaced. One of the first ones is he's

talking about hardware, exotic hardware, made by non-humans, that he's, that he's, learned about in the course of his own investigations. And yet he admits he never personally saw this stuff. He wasn't in a hangar where flying saucers are stored. So how does he know? Okay. So that's a problem that people bring up is he didn't see it. Let me explain a little bit of what over the last 14 months that we've been able to validate. We've been able to validate. First of all, Dave is a domino. You know, if the mechanisms of protection are in place, as they should be, for someone like Dave, this is going to be a cascade of information

because I know for a fact that in classified settings, under oath, where they could acknowledge the names, the specific names of legacy reverse engineering of non-terrestrial craft programs were disclosed with individuals. And I'm going to say the word durationally, meaning not a month, not a week,

not something like we've heard from like Bob Lazar back in the day, but we're talking years physically working with materials, have come forward. And we've known this. It's so hard to keep this back, you know, because we know it to be true. They have come forward and testified under oath in classified settings, program names, program locations,

other things than just hardware, people directly involved. So he might not have seen it, but under oath doing his investigation, with these classified programs. Now, my question is, who has this information? Have they acted on it? And if they've acted on it,

how do they get away with parsing these strange words publicly when they make like Arrow, when they, Susan Goff, when they make some statement? Have you noticed that shenanigan? These weasel words, it's as if lawyers write this stuff, the statements that they make in response to whatever the UFO story de jour might be, in response to Dave's statements that have been reported in the media around the world, Goff has a typical statement of hers.

The Department of Defense has no specific, no, Arrow has no specific evidence that there were reverse engineering alien spacecraft, something along those lines. Yeah, well, Arrow might not have it or Arrow may not believe it, but that doesn't say the Department of Defense or the intelligence community doesn't have that information at all. words are so important, discovered, verifiable, something like that. Yeah. Right, right, right. Because that's not terrestrial.

Right, right, right. So here's a wild theory people will be throwing out once they get smartened up, right? Which is that like, what if there are secret programs that are filled with this information to make people working on them think that these extraordinary technologies are other earthly as some sort of way to be. manipulate the narrative. God, that's a hilarious, interesting, but hilarious kind of theory here. We are at a moment in this whole thing where finally we have the right process in place and people need to trust it. Dave is the bullet test of the whistleblower protection rights. This is a presidential policy. This is how he went forward. When he came forward, when he came forward, Arrow did not exist. I can tell you, I know directly that Sean Kirkpatrick, Dr.

Sean Kirkpatrick, is fully aware of the base understanding of what Dave Grush brought forward and that there are other people in those programs willing to talk. Now, my question is, and I've gotten different answers, would Dr. Carpatrick in his office have the authority, the need to know, maybe, but the authority? to follow up on that concrete, hard evidence of physical locations of hardware and beyond storage facilities of these programs. Does he? Would he?

Do they have the clearances to have access to the kind of information Dave has shared behind closed doors? I think the answer probably is no. Well, hold on. Clearances is one thing. There's two sides to the coin of intelligence. There's clearance and there's need to know. So the authority comes from need to know.

Now, I would say they do have a need to know. But not everybody is convinced that Arrow is going to do the right thing because of these public statements. A lot of these dominoes, a lot of these people that have direct firsthand knowledge, why do they come to us a lot, the majority of which people don't know publicly? Why do they do that? It's because they do not trust this process yet. but how Dave Grush's account is going to be treated is going to pave the way for if things need to come to journalists or if they need to go through the official process.

It would behoove the DOD to treat this properly and to stop whoever is trying to create these reprisal aspects on Mr. Gras. I mean, we believe and we have good reason to believe that Dave has gone high up and has testified behind closed doors under oath to. to congressional committees and perhaps to other folks to tell the basic story. We believe he has also helped shepherd other people who have direct hands-on experience to tell that story as well. Does Sean Kirkpatrick and Arrow know about this? Sure he does. Yes.

For a fact. He does. He knows about it. He has made the same kind of weasily statements that Susan Goff has made. Oh, well, we have seen no really verifiable information about ET reverse engineering stuff. weasily words. Okay, you're throwing punches right now. You think that this is, is not being handled by Dr. Kirkpatrick and Arrow the way it should be. You're throwing punches. Yeah, I think Congress has made it pretty clear. They want this information. They want to have access to it. They want

whistleblowers who have information, direct hands-on experience with these legacy programs to step forward. Those people are really reluctant, as we know. We talk to them. We have passed people through the process that are verifiably who they say they are. Other people whose names are not yet known to the public or to the UFO world who want to tell the story, who were hoping that the whistleblower protections would work for them, that they would be able to go to Arrow as the proper agency looking into this designated by Congress, tell their story, and that it would get out. It would go to the places where it needs to go. And now they're worried about it. And Dave is a good example of why they should be worried about it because of how he's been treated.

Or he'll be a good example of why they can trust it. The ball's in their court, but we have a specific, I want to read you something Dave gave me to say. So let me read that to you. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd, but too often life gets busy or the price hold you back. Price Line is here to help you make it happen.

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So check it out, man. Things are happening in real time. It's like crazy. So there's been this huge thing online that the Inspector General of Intelligence, the former Inspector General of Intelligence, who is Dave's lawyer, by the way, great lawyer to have when you're doing this kind of thing, that that firm dropped him.

and to try to discredit him. Even in the publication, it told his story. It's like they've got a weird sub-agenda. So they tried to make that seem mysterious. Is it? What just happened? That call, what just happened? According to Dave,

that law firm represents whistleblowers and active duty government employees. Dave is no longer a government employee. He left. And so the firm that would normally represent him has been peeled off. However, to suggest that it's somehow this big split that they don't believe him is completely wrong because the lawyer who represented him all the way through this, the guy who used to be with the IG's office is still representing him. He's peeled off from the firm and is still

stick him with Dave. We're talking about the former Inspector General of Intelligence. So what you're telling me and what I'm telling you and what we know to be fact is that, this individual is leaving their law firm to privately, because of faith and belief and trust and righteousness, to be right there next to date. I can imagine what it's been like the last week for that law firm to be pounded and hounded by media from all over the world, not only reporters and producers and demands for interviews, but also all the UFO crazies who have been pounded them with criticisms and questions and things of that sort.

So I'm sure that representing somebody who is now as high profile as Dave is is a headache for him. So they might use the excuse, well, he doesn't work for government anymore. We're leaving him. But the lawyer who's known him the best, who's worked with him through this whole process, is sticking with him. Because he knows Dave is a legitimate guy and he's going to have his back, as we will. I got to explain why I'm so excited right now. Right. Like, I am excited because, man, it's been hard to keep people's trust and keep our mouth shut.

If people believe Dave or not is not going to be an issue, it's either true or it's not true, right? And we now are in a moment where this can be proven. So I'm excited because, man, you get this too. You sat on a story for so long. By the time it comes out, whether through you or through other people, what is that like? What is that feeling like when something you've been keeping secret finally comes out? Well, it's good. It's a good feeling, you know, especially when you got somebody as credible as Dave. It's frustrating if the story comes out from someone else, obviously. It's a mixed bag of emotions there,

but you're glad the information finally comes out and gets taken seriously. In Dave's case, he has testified under oath about not only the things that the public has now heard, but a lot more. He's not only has he testified under oath, but he knows that he's helped shepherd other people who have much more direct hands-on knowledge who have also testified under oath. There is so much more that the public does not know. People are grasping at straws looking for a way to discredit Dave. For example, they're complaining that we once met with him at a Star Trek convention in Las Vegas. Oh my God. Oh, my God. He must be some crazy Trekkie guy. You can't believe anything. He says. He loves the wrath of Khan. Therefore, we've got to dismiss this whole thing. So let's tell the story of how

how that happened. Yeah, guilty. We actually did need a start at convention. Okay, so here's, I guess it seems so mysterious from the outside. So my childhood friend, one of my best friends, is a guy named Rod Roddenberry. His real name is Eugene Roddenberry. He's the son of Gene Roddenberry, creator of Star Trek. We grew up together.

We trained Jiu-Jitsu together. We bled in sport fighting together. He is a dear friend of mine and has always asked that you and I might do a kind of UFO talk at some Star Trek thing. And I love Star Trek. It's totally cool. I'm not super knowledgeable about it, but I love it. So I thought, man, they're doing it in Vegas. Rod is asking us to do a conference.

I know I can get you there despite your travel curse because it's in your backyard. And how fun would that be? How fun would that be? So talking with Dave at that time during all the vetting and this process, process, I asked him, I said, would you be interested in meeting us there just to continue talking about what's going on in your life and where it's going? And he was like, oh yeah, I'm stoked. I love Star Trek, but I'll be there. He loves it too. Is that a crime, by the way? I know. He wasn't dressed as a cling on, by the way, for the record. He didn't come in a costume.

Yeah. He came to the event. He heard our presentation. We spent some time together to talk about topics of mutual interest. And in fact, I kind of thought it was a greater level of protection. Here's a guy that is receiving true threats to his and his family's well-being. And I thought, well, if we're in a public place and that connection can be made later, so we actually brought a friend in as kind of a witness, didn't tell him much, but just made sure he knew that there was another pair of eyes. And that was our friend Joe Merga. Right. Joe was there, spent some time, heard some of what our conversations were. Yeah, just the basic conversations as journalists when we're interacting with individuals

where we can't tell something yet. Here's the part that has not been made public. So Dave was there in Las Vegas with us at the Star Trek big event, very cool event. And we had many conversations during the course of those two days. The next day, he flies back east and reports to work and it hit the fan. And we were concerned that it might have been somehow related to. him being seen with us in public. Describe what happened to him when he got to work that day.

Maybe that's a... That's too far to go? I don't know. Maybe that's... Okay, so here's the deal. I am being absolutely clear with this. I respect how Dave has handled the pressure that he's been under. He has net...

You tell me if to you, he has never disclosed something to me inappropriately. He has always maintained the straight line of what he can say. So meeting there, it was more like getting to know him, but also allowing just some public knowledge that would come out later that like, okay, look, he started this process. This isn't like a whim. This isn't like a big conspiracy thing. But I guess we'll, so we will say. So Dave had a lot of reprisal.

One of the things at some point is that he was, and it's in the IG, he was. He was stripped of access to his clearances and whatnot. And that did happen the day he got home from being with us. But his problems started prior when they found out that in his IG report, before we met, that they were doing that. They were angling on him because of what he uncovered, the illegal programs. That is coincidence. And he doesn't blame us.

And we don't try to put anything on that. But as journalists, it's good for us to know that that is the level of pressure he was under. Now, by the way, he was cleared of all of that, completely cleared. That was a bullshit, fucked up attempt to try to intimidate him. 100%. And keep them quiet. 100%. Why would- Well, I mean, it's coincidental that he beats with us in Las Vegas.

He goes to the Star Trek event. And then the next day when he gets back, they walk him out. They strip him of his clearance. They suspend him. They suspend the clearances. And he has to fight to get his job back, which he did. And he fought. And he won.

And he won. And he provided everything. It was bullshit. And that's the kind of thing that stopped people. So everybody asks, like, why don't you just put something out? Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? Do you realize people that put their heads above the parapet are often shot at?

So that's what we're seeing. Whether you believe Dave or not, that's up to you. But we're going to get to the bottom of that. But that's just that's a human thing. Let's be honest. That's a human. I mean, you know, something that we've talked about many times and through the course of my career as a journalist, sometimes you have to protect your sources even from themselves.

So Dave has maintained strict rules about what we could know and what we couldn't. And he never crossed the line. He never told us things that we should not know that is classified, very specific information, the kinds of questions that the public now has. He didn't cross that line in Las Vegas. Vegas, and he didn't deserve to be treated as he was when he got back to work. But that wasn't the first time. He was already under pressure.

As of July of 2021, they were coming after him because they knew what he knew. And in my personal human investigation, human intelligence, trying to see what is this guy made of, who does he know, what's going on. Other people have looser lips. So we have learned a number of things which we hope, we know have been shared in classified settings. And we do hope the public gets to know that through the proper channels. That is information, if true and correct, that is a public interest on a scale that I think is, it's changing. It's transformative.

One of the other things that comes up is, is Dave just repeating stuff that he's heard from the UFO echo chamber, other people who are in these circles who've been through part of what he's gone through, who have gone public and said these things? Is he just repeating things he've heard from, say, Lou Alizando? And the answer, they do know each other. The answer is no. Let's let Dave speak for himself. He told me that, you know, he gave me a direct statement on that, and I want to share that.

Let's let's let Dave speak for himself. I'm going to just read it. Sure. During my investigations, very little was from the usual crowd. that has some knowledge. Most people that confirm details to ICIG are current government employees with top secret clearances, people that literally handled the materials in the classified program. Those individuals provided exact locations where the stuff was, and I'm going to say or is.

So what Dave is saying there is that it's not from the known names and people that have like some information that during his investigation, this is what people that public are unaware of. They're in these stove piped SAP, special access program, compartmentalized SAPs. So these are the quality of people, not that he's just saying, but that have actually testified to back up and given the goods.

They were required to, they were under an investigation. They gave the goods. So if this is true, which I believe it is true now, the question is, are we going to learn about it publicly? Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavatheater.com. of our resort and casino celebrating its 40th anniversary you in must be 21 to enter you know

Dave has access to multiple levels of information there are he does have communications with some of the names that are known in UFO world people who've already come out and have gone public but more importantly has access direct access to many of the names who have had hands on experience with these programs who have testified under oath in congress and elsewhere you He has access to them as well. He has access to a lot of information that he would not even share with us, that he would not cross a line and tell the public about. In fact, I think we need to make the point that this story broke in a way that he did not

want it to go out. He did not want it to be this way. I think the journalists who were working with them, Leslie and Ralph, didn't want it to be this way either, but somebody leaked his name. Now, we have known his name for a long time. We didn't leak it. We wouldn't. We wouldn't make that information public unless he told us that that, that, that, that, you

he wanted to go that route. We were there as sort of a backstop to protect them if he needed our help. That's right. And the interviews and all this stuff, it was just kind of like a backup plan. And so that's what's kind of concerning to me. I don't know how that was, I've heard how those names get out, but it wasn't through us. And that's very clear in the public realm. But I think your point, and I think it really needs to be heard, because it's true, is that this was not what somebody was looking to do, was be in the public. I mean, Dave is a kind of socially private person in some ways that I've gotten to know him.

He has never been seeking a kind of limelight. What he has been seeking is for the public to be aware, speaking truth to power is his words, not mine. These are the motivations of the person. And once you believe that, once you really believe that, because it is true, but you need to understand that, then you start to understand that he was pressured at this point. The name was out, the story was going,

and there are people that were trying to enact harmful things upon him. So they didn't get choice one, they didn't get choice two, They had to get it out by any means necessary in the right way. It wasn't because people were afraid of vetting or of this story being vetted. It was because there are reprisals. And this is an important case to protect because if it's true, it changes a lot. I mean, what we can document for sure is that Dave was following the rules. Starting in July of 2021, he was going forward through the established processes,

through the will of Congress that have been expressed publicly and in legislation. They wanted information to go up the pipeline to be presented through the proper channels, and he was trying to do that. And what he faced was retribution by people in the intelligence community. A year later is when he first started talking to us as a backup plan, as protection in case things went really bad. And now this year, the last week, the story blasted out into the public, not because he wanted it out, not because the two journalists, the three journalists working directly with him,

wanted it out right now. It had to come out because somebody leaked it. Now, whatever their motives were for who leaked his name, trying to pressure him, we're not exactly sure, but it's out now. And now the public, Congress, investigative agencies, Arrow can all take their shot at it and dig into it and see what they find to verify or reflect on his story. I am tuned in to what, you know, public will kind of whisper about stuff because I have some friends that read Twitter a lot and all that stuff and they'll tell me kind of what's being said. And one thing that people are saying, and I want to knit this in the bud, because you start believing nonsense like this, it, it corrods the truth. Some people are saying, even friends of mine, like even family, you know, they're like,

this is it. This is the government orchestrating either a slow disclosure. And here we go. This is the way that they are orchestrating this through people in the intelligence community like Dave Grush. Or they're planning some massive fake alien invasion and paving the ground. Man, I can personally tell our audience for whatever that's worth to them. And I think you can too. Holy shit, this is not an organized process.

This is UFO Vietnam. There are bombs going off right and left. our lives are chaos. This is not a planned thing. Now, you don't got to take my word for it, but here's the deal. The people involved, they're not some puppets for this thing.

They're not some set up. They're telling it like they know it, and reluctantly sometimes. And so that's so important because I can see that conspiracy coming from a mile away that this is some orchestrated government attempt. And look, if we find out it is in any way,

I can't wait to report on that. We'll have proof if it is, but it's not. You know, these are people, Dave and others, coming forward at great personal risk, risk to their credibility, to their reputations, to their careers, and maybe to their lives. They're coming forward to tell a story to Congress and hopefully to the American public, to the world, that the public wants to know, that Congress wants to know, and that supposedly our laws have created a system that allows them to do that with certain kind of protection. That's not exactly how it's worked out so far, but they've put themselves at risk to tell the story because they think that that is their job, that it's their duty as Americans.

There is going to be pushback. This is not the beginning of the end. It may be the beginning, the end of the beginning, but there's a long way to go. And the keepers of the secrets are not going to give this stuff up easily. Congress might now have a better idea about where stuff is hidden. Who's got it? doesn't mean they're going to get to it. Doesn't mean that even if they get to it,

that we'll be allowed to know about it because there are national security implications regardless of what we might think. For people like Dave Grush, you know, it's a rough road ahead. The New York Times had a chance to publish that story and they took a pass on it. From what we've heard,

they didn't really give a whole lot of thought to the process. They just said no. Our information now is they're now investigating Dave their calls being made to the Pentagon to find out information about his background, presumably to look for dirt, so that maybe in the future, maybe even real soon, they can publish a story that explains that tries to justify why they never investigated them the first time when the story was dropped into their laps. They said no to Ralph Blumenthal, who worked at the paper for 30 years or more.

They said, no, without really looking into it at all. that suggests to me that there is going to be pushback, that we still have a long way to go, but people like Dave coming forward and some of the others, that colleagues that he knows, that he helped shepherd into the government before Congress, there's progress that's been made.

Look, man, I'm just going to say it because I don't want it to be, I don't want it to sound like this weird, dark hand that's going over stuff. Like this pushback on this topic, this topic is considered a national security, issue at the level of weapons of mass destruction, if not higher, than that. So when you're talking about all this, it might sound mysterious to people, but I think it's

really important to kind of like clear that up. There are people, there are groups, there are factions that not only don't want the public to know whatever the truth is about UFOs or UAP, but there are also groups. And I'm going to say a quote, and I really want people to hear it. There are groups, agencies that want to, quote, shape the emerging UAP narrative. End quote. You and I have tried to be as impervious as possible to that influence, whatever that is. That is the truth. So with this, there is a legal process that has been put in place.

That legal process wouldn't exist. They wouldn't create something saying, you are protected from reprisal if they didn't know that there were reprisal attempts. That is legislation, folks. That is law. So there are people in Senate, in Congress, in other committees and agencies that people don't know about that are trying to get the truth for themselves for oversight. And some of them wanted out to the American public. And you and I have directly been involved with helping to navigate how to bring certain people forward full in the public, congressional hearings, with right committees, with oversight. And I am hopeful and optimistic.

Everybody I've met has been looking to do this right. Now, last thing, which is that intelligence individuals who work in those mechanisms, that we have talked with have continued to say, I hope Dave is staying safe. And that has concerned me greatly because that is a concern for people. So the best way for Dave Grush to stay safe is to stand right where he is

when it is appropriate to talk, but to be right out in the light. We applaud Dave's courage and integrity for coming forward. We know that. it's going to be a rough road ahead for him he's got there's going to be a lot of slings and arrows a lot of attacks on his credibility and on the credibility and integrity of the people who will follow him but we appreciate that he's come forward we really appreciate that he shared our our trust

shared his information some of it with us and and asked us to have his back and he will have that going forward even though we regret we didn't get to break the big story we have other stories to break And a lot of them have to do with Dave. Yeah, let's maybe we'll just lead people with this, which is that there is a bigger story. And over this time, I am so inspired. I mean, I think you can tell with this episode, I'm super excited.

You know, it's like I'm inspired that we're going to be able to finally talk about some things that we've wanted to and in the right way and with new releases. So I just, we are this close to come into the fundamental consensus reality that this UFO issue has substance and importance and consensus reality. And we're talking everywhere. And if we get there, then we're going to figure out a little bit more and learn a little bit more.

So I'm just real excited. And I am grateful. And thank you for saying that about Dave. I am grateful that he came forward. Now, people believe him. Don't believe him. That's on you. You got to do some footwork, baby.

You got to start dancing. You got to figure it out. But you and me, I'm ready to say that everything that Dave is, you know, has put out publicly that he believes to be accurate and correct and it is corroborated in ways that are not yet public it's he's got a ways to go the american public and congress have ways to go before they get to the bottom of this but what a heck of a journey an exciting time i can't wait to see what happens next week yeah man never has so few have so much to tell but could say so little Following this in a weaponized, presentation of Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, Dark Course Entertainment, and Cadence 13 Studios.

Available now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows.