WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - Ernie Cline - The Man Who Saw The Future

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Ernest Cline is the visionary best-selling author of Ready Player One, Ready Player Two, Armada, and the upcoming Bridge to Bat City, as well as the co-screenwriter of the blockbuster movie Ready Player One directed by Steven Spielberg, and co-founder of Readyverse Studios.  Cline is a brilliant novelist and screenwriter whose books have earned worldwide acclaim and a legion of devoted fans around the world. Cline's first visionary bestseller Ready Player One was eerily accurate prediction of where AI and virtual reality tech are taking us. Cline worked with legendary director Steven Spielberg in creating a mega-hit movie based on the novel.  Cline's deep research into UFO history and extraterrestrial scenarios culminated in a second best selling novel about an alien invasion, which has also been optioned for a future film. A sequel, Ready Player Two, topped bestseller lists in 2023 and is in development to become a film.  In this bonus episode of Weaponized, George and Jeremy travel to Austin Texas to visit their pal and to tour his astonishing collection of iconic pop culture collectibles, movie memorabilia, and a vast library UFO and sci-fi books, films, and collectibles. Ernie also revealed his soon to be released next book, based on a true story from his home town. It's a fun peek into the life of one of America's best writers, sort of an episode of "UFO Cribs”. You can pre-order Ernie’s new book Bridge To Bat City here : https://a.co/d/hlBRice  •••  GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail]  For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media.  Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is not the final episode. of Weaponized. Join us this week for a special bonus episode of Weaponized leading up to the season finale. Something profound appears to be happening to our planet, something related to an alien presence. The original best evidence changed my life. The only media institution in the world covering the subject and the most interesting subject in the universe. We've known about this for decades and it was hidden from you. Oh my gosh, that's another blow. another blow. There's more than one kind of non-human intelligence, and we don't even know if they're

we don't want to call them aliens because we don't know where they're from. It's an easy secret to keep if it's a secret that nobody wants to learn. Step back in time for an out-of-this-world discussion with Ernest Klein, writer of Ready Player 1. Yes, this is UFO's the best evidence. It's the best and most conclusive UFO series of all time. It happens to be on VHS because George Knapp made this in... This one is 1994. The original best evidence changed my life. And like Jeremy's, like seeing that.

I heard they were showing it in movie theaters. I heard bootleg and because why not? Like, it's the only media institution of the world covering the subject and the most interesting subject in the universe. The UFO mystery used to be much simpler. Lights in the sky. Now you see them, now you don't. But in the past few years, the questions have deepened.

Something profound appears to be happening. appears to be happening to our planet, something related to an alien presence. Today, the search for UFO evidence takes us into increasingly bizarre realms. I live in this small town in Ohio, Ashland, and we had a little cinema that would get, you know, big movies, but the VCR and video stores opened up the whole world of cinema to me. I could suddenly see movies made, you know, all the way back to the 30s, and the whole library of cinema and order away for movies. And so even, so that was big, big for me was VHS and the discovery of cinema.

And so getting to make movies is, you know, a dream come true. On my first book tour, I drove my dream car. This is a version of UFO cribs with Ernest Kline. Here we go. This is my double-Gelorian garage. The day's-one was not enough. No. Well, let me, that's the story.

Is I was wanted to own a glorian. I saw one in a science museum in Columbus when I was 13 called COSI, the center of science and industry. And they had one on display, and it was the car of the future back in like 1981 or 82. And I, that was even before back the future came out. I saw this car and fell in love with it. And back to the future came out in one of my favorite movies of all time. And then it was, you know, a time machine. And then I always wanted to own one.

And so when I sold Ready Player One and sold the movie rights to Warner Brothers, I bought a Dolorean and started transforming it into a, time machine. The time machine in my book is a mashup of these four vehicles that I loved growing up. The Back to the Future, Delorean, the Ghostbusters Ectomobile, the jet car from the Adventures of Buckingru, Bonsai, and Kit, the Knight Industries 2000 from Knight Rider. The protagonist in my book matches all four of these vehicles up and creates Ecto 88, a combination of all four of them. And then that's the car that ended up getting featured in the movie when it got made. They had to take off the Ghostbusters logos. I don't know if you can see if you lowered the door.

This is in 1981, DeLore. They only made them two years. And this is a 1982. And this one, I, let me see if I can get art. Dude, it's so low to the ground when you get it. Like, I can't even imagine. These both drive. They were so low to the ground.

It was professionally lowered that one. It was. Yeah. I have a kit scanner here built into the, So two questions. One is do your ghost traps, do they work? Oh, yeah. Because my mind, my mind is haunted.

Oh, my head's sad. Well, I would like you guys to sign it. If you can find a spot, it's kind of hard. If you find a spot in the black area. We got to stay here one time because he invited, he invited us to stay here. And we could have, we could have stayed here instead of the hotel. Well, actually, I haven't shown you guys the coolest thing yet. Yeah, you haven't.

Are you guys ready for this? George and I'm gonna believe it. This is so exciting, Bradie. Are you guys ready? Oh. I didn't get a chance to find out here, but it's still. You know, it's all that. But yeah, this is my secret room when I was built.

So this was an empty foundation or an old man house when I bought it. And I was going to, when I started a little building house, I realized I could extend the foundation to build a secret room. It's all concrete on three sides. So this is kind of underground here and hidden back up against the earth. And when we had our big Texas freeze, this is the one room that stayed warm. It was like a safe room. It was like a safe room.

And then also hidden, yeah. But also a place to, you know, hide all my, all the stuff that gives away who I am in case, you know, like an electrician or somebody has to come over and work on the house. Right. Like all the stuff that like, they look around like, are you? Did you write? Ready Player One. Lose their mind. My second book, Armada is a, uh,

also deals with UFOs, new apes, in video games. The idea that the whole video game industry was created to train the population to pilot drones, aerial drones and robots to fend off an impending alien invasion that they now is coming. And that Hollywood and movies have been used to condition people to prepare them for an alien invasion. Stuff that when I was writing this book in 2015, I didn't know, I didn't know about the Nymis incident or the Tic Tac or, you know, I knew, you know, I think I still, the problem I had when I was researching in this book is I had never taken another look at the UFO subject as an adult. My initial fascination with it in my 20s, you know, gave way to a fascination with cinema.

It was not my primary focus. I was really interested in writing books in science fiction and making movies. But then, you know, I got interested in the subject again. It was almost like, you know, this was like two years this book came out. in 2015, two years before the New York Times article in December. You know, when I found out, oh, military really is. Like seeing tubes inside of spheres, you know, off the coasts, and falling them all the way to the Gulf when they deploy.

Like, it was, and reverse engineering UFO craft is something that's also in this story that, you know, I knew and it was like an apocryphal, you know, thing, like part of the UFO lore that I never, you know, was never going to know whether or not it was real. and thanks to you guys now, I'm getting to know that it's real. I was going to ask you, like, what, you are obsessed, Ernie, with UFOs. I mean, I'm obsessed with UFOs,

but you're obsessed with UFOs. So, like, what was it? I don't say it's just UFOs. It's like the phenomenon. Like, UFOs is not an encompassing thing. I'm obsessed with non-human intelligence that's interacting with humanity. And why isn't everyone?

Like, holy shit, why it's the biggest story of all time? It's one of the big questions. Why are we? hear you know what happens when we die and are we alone those are the three big questions and the phenomenon is related to all three of them like everyone should be interested in it so that's the source of my what's what sparked that in you though because you've been doing science fiction or writing all this and like what sparked you to be like

to fuck this let's go let's go I think it was um you know I had to I remember going to the library when I was a kid in elementary school and there was a UFO section. And I would, I checked out every book in that section. And my name, I remember seeing my name in the sign out again and again, like, because I wanted to own these books, but I couldn't. So I was that fascinated with the subject. And then when I was in high school, we talked about this. We drove up to area 51. I saw this documentary in television hosted by Rod Serling. UFO's past, present and future. Yes. I'm one of the best funded by the CIA, one of the best UFO documentaries.

Amazing. Narrated by the creator of Twilight Zone? Holy shit. I was riveted. I remember this documentary was on late and my parents didn't want me to stay up late to watch it. And I was up like a, I must have been, gosh, 12, 13. I don't know if I was quite a teenager, but I remember crying loudly to get, you know, and being really upset and my parents letting me coming downstairs and step past my bedtime

to watch that documentary. And then in the midst of that, Dr. they talked to Sergeant Coyne about the UFO incident in Mansfield, Ohio, which is where I lived. Like, I couldn't believe it. One of the most important, like four guys in an army helicopter, like about eight miles from my house, get caught in like a green beam of light and a tractor beam and sucked up. And then two different groups, two or three different groups of people on the ground, witness it. And these guys all come back and land at, they're flying from Cleveland to Columbus. They land in Columbus and report all of it, all four of them, all checked out. Like it was the

the best documented UFO case. I couldn't believe like, man, like they were like I remember driving out. I, you know, when I got my license driving out to the spot where it happened just to be like, wow, there was an, you know, an alien spacecraft like right here and like, you know, took control of a helicopter and there were people like we were just, yeah, that's the one where they mifted up. Yeah. You know, wow, I go to science class in school and it's like, are we alone?

We don't know. Like we think maybe there's life in the universe, but so far there's no solid evidence. Like it was this push and pull, you know. I remember when I met Hal Putoff talking to him about Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan was the one who did me in. I love Cosmos. Cosmos was what, like, sparked my interest in science. I, like, there's a reference to Cosmos and Ready Player 1, like, how much I revered that

series. And it really opened my world to my eyes to the world of science and the history of science and applying science to everyday life. And he was a great science educator and science, you know, enthusiast to get other people interested in science. But he flipped. He, yeah, he flipped. And he, you know, the episode of Cosmos that terrifies me, now I'm going to sit down.

You guys are welcome to sit down. Yeah, go ahead. But the episode of Cosmos that terrifies me and breaks my heart now is the episode about Betty and Barney Hill. He did us a whole episode of Cosmos to debunking Betty and Barney Hill, such Sostak and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. and Michio Kaku, all characters in Armada, and part of the cover up, in on it. And Carl Sagan plays a key role in it too.

It's like a way for me to like try to reconcile in fiction this love, you know, anger, relationship I have with these scientists who revere and I love what they've done for the getting people in new generations and interested in science, including mine. but just the willful obtuseness about, you know, there's, even now, like when, you know, trying to corner Neil deGrasse Tyson, you know, it's like trying to get mercury, you know, corner of mercury and you finally get him into a corner, it's like, yes, there's something out there. I acknowledge our military, you know, says there's something out there. So let's find out what that is, you know, I want to know what that is and then moves on to another

subject. But like, wait, you know, the evidence would suggest is technology. under intelligent control, not us, not ours. That's another intelligence. It's not out there. It's here. It's right here. Own it all.

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It's the biggest. It's fucking surreal. Yeah. It's totally like. George is like, when we went and we did the hearing and we're sitting back there, George was like have an ontological shock that finally this shit is being said. in a senatorial, in a congressional setting. Like, we have moved so far.

But what you're saying is still, people are not, like, jumping in and, like, the scientists are not. Because it drives me crazy. The hubris of Neil deGrasse Tyson sitting there, the way he tries to debunk the UFO, he knows nothing. How about just for the sake of curiosity? You're in science because you're curious. Right.

Can you not be curious about this? Well, and I asked that about everyone, you know, like, what is it? And what it is is it's, you know, you couldn't get people to believe that the COVID-19 pandemic was real when there were emergency rooms in every town all around the country and the world eventually filling up with evidence. If you want to go look at the evidence that this pandemic is real, it's right there. You couldn't get people to believe that because it was too much for some people. Like it better to just not believe it. The planet. Yeah.

The planet. Or the planet. Or like climate change. You still see cognitive dissonance, like, choose. scary to think that like the clock is ticking and we've already, you know, we should listen back in the 80s. Like they were telling us like we had to take action. And now, you know what?

Today is a new record for pumping carbon into the atmosphere by the human rates. Yesterday was the old world record for pumping the most carbon in the atmosphere. Today, we set a new record. And you know what? Tomorrow we're going to set another every day. This is like fact. Like for sure, like today is like a day that there's more people every day. There's more of us.

where, you know, we've got the foot on the accelerator like never before because we have no choice, which is the other vast anything about the UAP subject, why everyone in the world, if you're interested in climate change, you should be interested in UFOs and UAPs and your government telling you that they're real. Because if they're real, which they are, they're not running on dinosaur juice. They're not running on fossil fuels. Like they've discovered a new physics. they're running on energy from the vacuum or, you know, something we don't understand and something that we should be chasing because that's the answer to our, that's the answer to our, that's our savior.

Like, that's what could save us is, you know, if we have free energy, we can start taking carbon out of the atmosphere. We can desalinate the oceans. We could have Star Trek instead of Mad Max. That's where we are. is two roads deroged in a yellow wood, right? Fury Road and Star Trek. Like, we could have, you know, that's so cool.

Like, those are the two paths for humanity. And right now, it looks like Fury Road. And I think, like, I think a lot of people, you know, deep down, like they've got a Fury Road desire. They want, like, I feel so guilty right now. I want Fury Road. Oh, yeah? It's like, screwed up.

I mean, I'm messed up. I'm a truly sick person. Well, George Miller makes great movies and jumping on those cars and like spitting gas into the tank. That does look fun. But not that much fun. I much prefer Star Trek and replicators that can make you Earl Grey T and zooming around exploring the galaxy in an armchair, which clearly other people are doing. That's what so, you know, I think that's the crux of the matter is that's what it's dispiriting to everyone to have to accept. that humans aren't the top of the food chain.

Yeah. And we're not the most advanced. Even in the Star Trek universe, humans and when they interact with the Vulcans, there's still kind of one, they've just discovered warped drive and are on the same level. It's not like there's an intergalactic federation of planets and you're not inviting. You monkeys who are still like lob and nukes at each other and can't even feed your own population, not invited to the United Federation of Planet. We'll like zip around and like check you out like monkeys in a zoo, but then we're gone.

you're not invited to the table. That's a dispiriting realization for everyone and not a science fiction fantasy that a lot of people want to explore. The idea of hostile aliens invading, like I think turns a lot of people off, even just the subject matter because it demotes humanity. And it demotes everyone in the scientific community.

Like, if you admit that UFOs are real, And they're defined our laws of physics, then our laws of physics are malleable and they're not really laws at all because somebody understands a lot more about physics and energy than we do. And there's the proof of it. We're seeing proof of it everywhere. And we also, like, turns out we've been concealing proof of it. And it's crazy. Yeah. Oh, UFOs?

Like I told you, you know, I think those words of Eric Davis, on that podcast all the time. Off world vehicles not made on this. It was quoted in the New York Times. And then everybody just lets it go. But it should have stopped the world. And that's a guy that knows. And so that's the thing.

Maybe people don't understand. Still has his clearance. Still doing his job. It doesn't matter that was printed in the New York Times. People don't know that Eric Davis is a guy that knows. And so that's the thing. Maybe there's an education of who he is. Let's talk about we were having a conversation last night, all three.

It was about film and the power of film. As a writer, you know, you're part of that industry, you write movies, you are a student of film. The power of movies to affect change and to affect, you know, what we think about the world around us, that power is real. I mean, you were talking about sort of how in your scenario, we were being conditioned to get ready to train to fight off the aliens. The power of film is real. JFK, for example. Oh, yeah, huge. I think Oliver Stone's JFK is the gold standard.

standard for a film about a historical subject that goes against the grain of what's accepted, the accepted history, and opens up millions of people's eyes to the truth and changes the law. Like, because of that movie, the Kennedy Records Act was enacted because a bunch of Americans went and watched that movie and was like, what? What? This is what happened? Like, this is what I was told. I remember I was like 19, I think, when that movie came out. And I had never been told anything but the lone government.

It's a paragraph in most history books still today, like Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, the end, you know, nothing about Alan Dulles and the CIA and the fact that they had someone like Oswald set up in Chicago to do the same number. But then he'd be canceled his appearance. All this things that's a fascinating history that if you look into, it's like, wow. If you can pull the wool over people's eyes about that, then UFOs, I always think of this Mark Twain quote that it's like really easily to get people to believe a lie. But it's very difficult to undo that work. Like once you've got them to believe it, like the shorter version of that is it's much easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled. Because nobody wants to be convinced that they've been fooled, much less the entire scientific community. Well, thank goodness that JFK movie was so powerful and we got all the records released.

Right. Right. How crazy is that? Like, it's crazy to me that the UFO legislation that we're all very excited about is being modeled after that legislation that was created because of the Holder Stone's film that still isn't wasn't adhered to. Like, they still, you know, they're like, what we released most of it? What about the 1%? Like still 60, 70 years out, we still can't know the truth? You know, all those people involved are gone.

Like, what's the still? That truth has to be scarier than just certain people. That's what it tells me. That truth has to be bigger than just certain people we're doing fuckery. Yeah. Well, it's just, it's really points to a conspiracy in our own government. I guess our own president. Right.

This happens, like, it's a harsh realization to be born in 1972 and find out that this happened like nine years before you were born. And if the ship sailed on our democracy, like, before you were even born, Like, that was startling about watching Oliver Stone's film and then seeing it take shape in the Congress, like a juryate lawmakers and they changed the law. But still, like, over 30 years, all right, we'll give you the records, but we're going to do it slowly over 30 years. And they do that. And people have been camped out in their hall of records. Oliver Stone made a follow-up documentary called JFK Revisited.

That is the best JFK documentary I've ever seen because it uncovers all the documents that have been revealed to the public. Like, you're not allowed to take them out, but so people go in there in the Hall of Records and camp out with scanners and go through all these documents. And they've uncovered all this incriminating evidence that points to JFK had it right. Aliswold was an asset of the CIA and they were tracking him and all of that stuff is, you know, I'm from Texas. Like going down the Kennedy assassination rabbit hole like around here is, you know, it's like part of the weirdness of Austin and Texas. And I have you guys, one of my favorite movies, one of the movies that made you want to move to Austin. Slacker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a whole great JFK conspiracy rant and slacker, but also a whole great, like, we've been on the moon since the 50s, uh, rant in the middle of that movie and this guy talking about the final solution and, uh, all this crazy stuff in a movie in 1990, uh, that snuck out of, uh, here in Austin and Rick Winklater. So you're, your friend, Steven Spielberg, who signed a couple of these posters here, your buddy. He isn't, you made a great movie with him. He's my hero.

He makes close encounters of the third guy. He makes E.T. a lot of lore in UFO world about the impact of those movies, whether he was part of the conditioning process, whether he was intentional or not. I mean, they do play a pretty big part in what we know about UFOs and what the public perceived. It's still, post encounters in ET is still the shorthand that everyone in the public uses to make a joke about UFOs, the Biden's press secretary. She just did it, you know, when they were talking earlier this year. E.G. Phone home? Yeah. Like, oh, I love.

love the movie ET, like I'm not saying, you know. Again, there is no indication of aliens or terrestrial activity with these recent takedowns. Wanted to make sure that the American people knew that. All of you knew that. And it was important for us to say that from here because we've been hearing a lot about it. I'm not. Would you tell us? I'm just, you know, I loved E.T. the movie, but I'm just going to leave it there.

You know, but still, and that's what's fascinating to me is a lot of people, think that those movies are where the UFO lore comes from and then people saw close encounters and then late night on TV and were half awake and thought that that was real and that was really happening to them. And not that Stephen based, you know, close encounters on all kinds of things, all kinds of real incidents, is things here in Texas up in Lubbock and also the level-ins, a UFO incident and Roy Neary's car getting shut down by UFOs. A lot of that with stuff that happened up in Leveland, which is, features in my new children's book, a bridge to Bass City, which, you know, will probably still not be out. It's coming out next April,

but deals with part of the landscape of weirdness in Texas is there's like a place called the Marfa Lights and there's lots of paranormal stuff in Texas. But UFOs, man, maybe a crash down in Del Rio, maybe, which is where Wolfman Jack's radio station was just across the border and see that, Acuna. X-E-F, he's to broadcast from there. But yeah, and then the Lovic Lights, which I don't know if anybody, this is something that I put in my recent about city, but I don't know if anybody else put it together. You know who's like laying in his bed 15 years old when the Lovic lights are zooming over

Lubbock, Buddy Holly? Buddy Holly, who's 15 years old, was like, I think a freshman in high school. And they saw those things, and the whole town knew about it. So, like, I was wondering, like, did Buddy Holly go out at night? to like, you know, I see the love of place. What do you plan in talking to us about UFO? Well, I said this when I was on coast to coast with George, promoting ready player too that, you know,

I've been talking to him about his life. And I think you fall. I think there's only one journalist who was, has ever been taking this seriously from the very beginning. Like as soon as he found out like, holy shit, is this real? And then just held on to it and never stopped conducting,

you know, serious hardcore journalism like a dog with a bone that he's never going to let go. And it's George Knapp. And George. like followed it didn't just stay on his beat in Las Vegas like when Nids happened like some of it looks like you know you're lucky that you had Bob Bigelow on your beat and Area 51 but but you know I was thinking about that you know the story that George tells about a coin toss deciding whether now he goes to Las Vegas because George is that's not his beat you know anybody else you know

when they when I'm excited to see your new episode about Lear oh I'll give it this morning I saw the teaser but the episode had him draw i'm dating the episode yeah yeah but um uh yeah when lear slams that giant stack of papers down uh you know uh and uh bob so it all doesn't want to it is like this is true i would know about it right yeah uh and so if george isn't there to be like i'll be like i'll read them you know and then like to me that's one of the most exciting movies uh like scenes in a movie or a tv series ever it's a reporter like uh going down this stack of documents that seems to indicate like, holy shit, this is the biggest story of all time. And it is, you know?

And then it takes, so that's what, 1987, 7 to 2020, 33, 36 years. 36 years before. And still, where's the New York Times? Like, sort of begrudgingly, like still, like. But New York, George had this story before the New York Times. He was asked by Harry Reid not to break the story because he wasn't New York Times. And then the New York Times fucked it up. They got it wrong.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's like, so you're saying, so I want to follow the story from the 80s. I'm a big fan of the 80s, obviously. All that stories have it ties to that decade. Because it's an exciting decade when it was the moment of acquisition of technology when we got VCRs and home computers and cell phones and all this technology that would change our life, which you find out now comes from reverse engineered alien technology. That's another real. like blow to the human ego, if we didn't even figure out transistors on our own until 1947, coincidentally, when Philip Corso was like sending, you know, uh, integrated circuits and stuff from recovered Ross, like, that's a big ass secret. And like, uh, you know, how does that change human history? If that's where we get integrated circuits and fiber optics and, uh, and the transistor and all this is happening under my nose. I'm growing up in this little town in Ohio, Ashland, an hour and a half down the road, that town where I first saw a Dolorian, Kosai, it's right on the same street, the Patel Memorial Institute, where

Jacques Valet is now revealed. That's where they were sending all the, when they shot a piece of UFO off in 1952, they were taking it to Battelle when they, you know, when they flew the Roswell record, jumped the right Patterson Air Force Base over in Dayton. Like, I couldn't, you know, that was always like a part of Hanger 18, you know, that was always part of UFO lore. And I love the idea like, wow, alien spacecraft, you know, and bodies on ice right over there in Dayton, you know, just a few hours, you know, down the road. And studying alien, you know, craft, you know, wreckage for metamaterials. Things with the isotopes don't match our, you know, isotopes. And that was all happening, you know, in this, you know, defense contractor, but Telman War I

Institute in Columbus, Ohio, all this world-changing stuff that if I knew, you know, like, I mean, I learned in school, like, are we alone? Like, as SETI's, you know, we're hoping to get a radio signal, you know? Why do you think, like, so I mean, George figured out there was meat on that bone because of how it started for him, right? Like he looked at the paper trail and he was like, okay, there's something here. And they lied to him. They lied to him about Lazar. They lied to him about not working at Los Alamos.

So he had this motivation because they lied to him and he followed the paper trail and he's like, there's meat on the bone here. Why do you think it's not really absorbing right now to like the mass public that our government has admitted there are craft of unknown origin that can do more than our craft? Why do you think? Because it's like it's too many levels of cognitive dissonance. It's not just, are we alone? Yeah. Like, you know, we're not alone. And there's more than one.

Non-human intelligences plural. That's the most scary pluralization ever. is David Grush saying non-human intelligence is, so there's more than one. And then the other scary pluralization, agreements, plural. Not agreement, agreements. So like so many levels of we're not alone. They're non-human intelligences here on Earth interacting with us. They have technology that's way far beyond us.

We've got a bunch of it. We've been trying to figure it out for 60, 70 years and no luck. Like we don't even have to turn these things on. Like, you know, or maybe we could turn a few of them on. But, you know, all of that. But then so how many levels of, oh, also, Roswell was real. And, you know, our own government has been conducting a really intense psychological warfare campaign against its own citizens to keep this a secret. And it's been handed off to a new generation that is also like, yeah, we need to keep this a secret.

So many levels of, you know, but then you like, so we're not alone. We've got alien spacecraft. We've been reverse engineering. And a bunch of their bodies on ice. What's the story with their DNA? What secrets did you uncover when you sequenced their DNA? So you're saying all these questions will come out like a Pandora's box. I have all these questions right now.

Right, right. But, like, where are they from? Why are they here? What's their interest in us? Yeah. How long they've been here. I'm with, I'm with you. And this is like, it opens this line of questioning, but why do you think it's not

kind of the biggest story everywhere right now? What is that cognitive dissidents you're talking about? Because what we're talking about, it's easy to convince, it's easy to fool someone, but hard to convince them that they've been fooled. Oh, yeah. And everybody admitting, like, that Roswell is real, is admitting that they've been fooled. And admit that all those flying saucers, that's not stuff from the movies. Like, that was all real.

Like, movies and television were used to make you not take it seriously. And every time there was a UFO story, build a class or somebody was on there to give you a reason to not believe it so that you wouldn't freak out and stop paying your taxes and go running through the streets with your hair on fire. Because, you know, it was what the Brookings Institute and a bunch of think tanks over the years, I'm sure there are think tanks like running the numbers right now. What's this going to do to human civilization if everybody finds out that we don't have control of our own airspace? But do you really think society would collapse if our government officially said there are aliens? Well, I will tell you, when I met with to the Stars Academy and sat down with Al put off in Jim Sambi Pan and Steve Justice and Tom DeLon and Lou, all those guys, you did two documents they gave me. me. One of them was coming to grips with the implications of quantum mechanics. These are both scientific papers. Oh, you gave me these. Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah. Everybody should read them.

Yes. Coming to grips with the implications of quantum mechanics and sovereignty in the UFO, both really interesting reads. Sovereignty in the UFO especially because the thesis of it is that no government can acknowledge that UFOs are real because it immediately undermines their sovereignty. If you don't control your own airspace and you can't protect your own citizens and there's a technology above and beyond you, then you are not a sovereign nation. That's why the Air Force is mum because, you know, if you admit the UFOs are real, then you admit, like, we don't have air supremacy, you know, not even close. Or scientific supremacy, like, especially in America.

Like it undermines American supremacy. It undermines human supremacy. It undermines people who speak for the scientific community. And there's a cult of science. You know, I've been a part of it. You know, I love science. And I, you know, science for me is, it's the magic that works, right? Like, it's, you know, it's what's going to give us.

If anything is going to lead us to the path of Star Trek like Utopia, Roddenberry's vision, And it's science. But there's also like a line that's, I realize now, science will go up to and stop. And here we, here there be dragons, you know. Scientists are human beings and they need to get tenure and they need to publish and they need to pay their bills and they want to raise their kids and, you know, not have their lives threatened. Like scientists will, you know, can be influenced and will go up to a line. there's this thing in the scientific community called intellectual phase locking, which is a fancy term for they accidentally fudge their numbers to try to get other scientists to approve of them.

Like people, like a lie will propagate through science because people are afraid of being wrong or going against the brain. The other thing that I think is fascinating is the way the language is changed when the government or the scientific community is ready to admit that something is real. The two examples I think of are Cold Fusion, which is now known as low-energy nuclear reaction. It was actually L-A-N-R before it was called Cold Fusion, and I've interviewed and documented with all the godfathers of that. But they gave it the name called Fusion, discredit it? I don't know. Is that what happened? I don't know, but it was called low nuclear energy reaction, whatever it was.

And so these guys, they're still on the hunt to this day, you know, fission, fusion, the whole whole like, I filmed with tons of them. That was my kind of gateway into the scientific aspect of maybe related to UFOs. All those old schoolers, I went to Alamogordo, I, I, at White Sands and I filmed with these guys. They're like so prickly about the UFO thing. And the reason why is because they all know it's true, because some of them saw UFO ships over when they're driving into the base. I can get you in contact. You can talk with you. They're right over. They also know Cold Fusion is real. And it's been buried.

It's been buried. Pons and Fleischman had to leave the country. They had reproducible results, and they were going around MIT and other universities. And like, that's another fascinating. There's a special, when you file a patent, there's a special dispensation for energy creation inventions. Go through a special process separate from all other inventions. That's what's fascinating to me is, you know, because once we tap the vacuum, how put off? is heavily involved in this.

And a friend, a guy named Ken Shoulders, have you heard of him? Yeah. Exotic vacuum objects, an electro-hydrodynamic drive, is something that you can already do. We could already have Star Trek and flag saucers if we had the power source. That's what's crazy about those Navy patents

in Alexander Pay. That's right. Why isn't every journalist, why does some science fiction writer, you know, have to dig into this and find out on my own that the Navy years ago now, patent an inertial mass reduction device. Yes. And UFO technology.

So the inertial mass reduction device. You have a guy who did that, who made a breakthrough, remember? Which one? In the cold fusion stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah. The first time a diode was ever lit up by cold fusion in the public realm, I believe I documented it. I filmed it. I got these nerds and they have this cold fusion device.

and the old schoolers that worked on the low nuclear reactions. And I'm like, dude, I can't show anything on film. You gotta show me something physical. Can you light a light bulb? And they're thinking like nerds and they're like, I think we can. And then all of a sudden, they start screaming, the diode lit up through this reactor

he's had for a long time. So yeah, I guess that shit's real. But what you're saying is that we know the technology, we don't have the fuel source, the power source, which reminds me a Lazar. His story. The scientist will only go so far. and then they just, they won't go any further.

Well, because you, you're not going to get tenure. You're not going to get government funding for your research. Because it's all controlled. It's, you know, and I think that's the, like, people like, how do they keep this secret for, you know, 90 years? It's an easy secret to keep if it's a secret that nobody wants to learn. Like, if it's too terrible to tell, as George, like, puts it, like, which to me, like, I've narrated down to three possibilities that here reasons why you wouldn't want anybody to know this

if these were the scenarios is FLZ Farm Lab or Zoo Yeah if it's a farm if the earth is a farm And humans are being grown for some purpose Holy shit nobody's gonna show up to work tomorrow If that if that news gets out I want to be like holy crap Like a laboratory like we're being experimented on

Willie nilly, which is, you know, Bud Hopkins and John Mack, you know, like, sold me on that decades ago, like that that was happening, you know, and even if that, you know, some people say alien deductions are like a sciop using aliens as a cover, equally disturbing. But if it's all, you know, all real, then it's part of the most interesting story of all time. And that's why, you know, that's why I'm so proud of Stephen. Like, what other filmmaker, like, tackles this subject and has opened people's eyes to it and popularized it around the world and gotten people interested in it? Like, I had, you remember?

I saw Closer Counters the first time. I had, like, UFO dreams for weeks. And I think that was probably why I started checking all those books from the library. Like, that's a taken. Yeah. Taken as well. That was a great series. Yeah.

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What do you make, just random question, but what do you make of the hand scanner in the Stephen Spillberg movie because he's your buddy, right? What's the hand scanner? Because Lazar, he talked about it. I read so many and listened to so many interviews that aren't public, but that George did with Lazar. And one time I said, I caught him. You know, this is wrong.

And George's like, okay, yeah, we'll keep looking. He's like, I've been down that road too. And then all of a sudden, it gets popularized. And I get an image of this thing, the identity mat. I mean, I tell you, I showed it to Bob. It was a genuine real. He had not seen that since he used it. And then we found out those were being used at the Nellis test site in those years.

And I talked to other people that used them and not everybody used them. And depending on what program you're on, I've watched that movie as a kid a bunch of times. I never saw that. It was never said. Well, you wouldn't do 30 years. It was never said. You just didn't recognize it because you had never seen that photo that you found. It's like no one knew what that looked like or knew that that was a real thing.

That could have just been a piece of set dressing. There was no reason to focus in on that. But people say Bob's lying because it was in a movie. But the thing is 30 years they have. had to find that. And the things none of us knew. And we've all watched the movie. Well, somebody saw your photo of that and then watched Close Encounters. It was like, oh, that's the same same thing. But prior to that, you never spotted that or knew that it was real. That's right. I'll tell you the research that I did on that hand scanner,

talking to one of the production designers that worked on that movie is they had people from the U.S. military contributing equipment and design stuff and to the production that they use and I asked TTSA about it. Steve Justice told me that he used a hand scanner just like that at Tonapaw. Yeah, at Tonapy. Make sure the fingers in your bone. So like it's a real scan. I know the contract now that had it up there at the test site and it was used in different

programs and not everybody like the SR 71 guys at you know, Tonapal. Some of them had to use it. Some didn't. So it was there. It was just when you reverse engineer it, it looks spicious or weird. But when you actually live it. Yeah. Like, well, Lazar is supposed to have seen that in a movie.

It registers. And 30 years later, he puts it as part of this. You just want people focusing in on the minutia. Like, here's the, here are the key questions about Bob Lazar that everybody needs to ask themselves whether or not you should take it seriously. Like, if, if there's no there there, why are they, uh, why all the hubbub? Why tapping his phone and raiding his house and tapping George's phone and, like, showing up in his house? Like, why all of the clear evidence that, you know, like, this guy is important and they want him to be quiet, like, if he has nothing to say and it's all nonsense. Never, you can say in Friedman.

Like, when confronted with that, he would, you know, he could never answer the question. Like, why, you know, and to me, that's enough evidence. It's like with Dave Brush, like, why are you trying to discredit this guy, you know, if what he's saying isn't true? And it clearly like all the evidence like I love that phrase did use anyone with an ounce of cognitive reasoning that he said can look at the evidence and see like oh it's being obsticated it's being hidden and the truth is you know willful like for somebody who grows up also like revering NASA you know I adore NASA and like that's what's going to lead us to Star Trek humans reaching out in the space and to like think that NASA's complicit and it's

Photoshopping, alien spacecraft out of photos. And they, you know, that I don't know if you've seen this, they have been in Photoshop, early, like new versions of Photoshop will let you look at a photo and see if it's been doctored. Yeah. Feeding old NASA photos on that, they found like they were adding a red tint to everything on Mars that is gone now. Now that they've been out, they don't add a red tint to things on Mars because

it looks a lot more like Earth on Mars. And also, like, photos of the Earth where they've cut and pasted clouds from one section over to another to highs NASA. What are you doing? Like, once you lie in one of your photos to cover something up, then everything that comes from you is suspect. Like, these are like hard, you know, hard truths to wrestle with because, again, like, nobody wants to believe that they've been fooled, much less like that everybody's been fooled.

Okay. And so in Photoshop, NASA was turning the color of the surface of Mars intentionally red. They were adding that. Yeah. And they came out of the new version of Photoshop that allowed you to see if like the scale and things had been doctored and found out a bunch of NASA photos have been doctored. You can also like ramp up the brightness and see like big chunks blacked out. Lots of things blacked out in old Apollo mission photos. And there's some couple of great documentaries about this.

I want to say, Richard Dolan's in them is a guy named Darcy something. Oh, Darcy Weir? Yeah, Darcy Weir's made some great movies about the space program and all the stuff NASA has been trying to, the thread, what is it, the Tether Incident?

Is the famous one where they had this giant Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, suddenly getting... STE something, yeah, I know. So many times, like, you know, people caught them on NASA's used to have a live webcam. Like some giant triangular craft will start to come into frame NASA cuts the feet.

How many times does NASA cut the feet to hide some awesome interstellar space trap that's like floating into frame? That's what kills me is all the amazing footage with the stuff that Gordon Cooper shot.

You know, everybody needs to go watch the last scene of the right stuff. You know what the last line of the right stuff is? Gordon Cooper was the greatest pilot anyone ever saw it. Dennis Quaid plays Gordo Cooper in the right stuff. And so one of the guys

who had the right stuff, said that he saw a flying saucer set down and put his landing gear down and then pull the gear back up, lift up, and zoom away, and that it was filmed. And he personally said that film to Washington, D.C. Christopher Mellon told me he went looking for that footage. Yeah, that's Gordon Cooper, right? So astronaut and like an American hero, he saw on a military base the footage. So his guys were filming test flights, a vehicle, and then exotic vehicles.

They were showing off what I love about that story. is I think it was an exotic technology test. Yeah. Like they were of human technology. Yes. They had set up because they were filming. Yes. Fancy technology.

Correct. So then while they're in the midst of filming exotic human technology. Real fancy stuff. Real fancy stuff. As if they knew, like, oh, it's being filmed and they're doing a here we are. Here we are. Here. Check this out.

Yeah. Check it out. And it does. It gets sent right to Washington. Like, was all that burn? Did they ditch it all? Did they hide it all? Like, how much?

you know for for our audience right so for people that are watching weaponized so this is gordon cooper american astronaut american hero this dude had this film footage it came to him from his guys he actually looked at it he looked at the film and then he packed up sent it to the pentagon then when he asked about about it again no mention never got any word they stole that shit so that's why melon would go looking for it because when he reported food fighters too uh when he was a World War II pilot and chasing them and they would go too high and they could never catch them and they saw them all the time and Gordon Cooper chased him. Yeah, well, chased food fighters like You never really like you know. No, I never met him. I wrote to him. We were working. I don't need anybody more credible than that the guy. The guy is one of the guys that had the right stuff. Yeah, and I remember when I asked Christopher Mellon

He said that he went and tried to find that footage and the and the guy said oh well, it would have been tossed out a long time ago. I I couldn't believe that. But also, like, what do you think about, you know, what do you think about that? Like, why would Gordon Cooper say that? And he said, oh, well, you know, Porter Cooper, you know, he'd gotten old by the time he said that. I'm like, what? So he's got dimension. He doesn't remember World War II or things that happen.

Well, like, you know, he doesn't have the right stuff anymore. Is that what it is? Like, he's like one of our American heroes, like one of the Mercury astronauts, like one of the guys. And once I heard, you know, once I dug through like what James. enough James Fox documentaries or, you know, or maybe it was one of yours to see that footage. That's like something Gordon was saying that. That's something that should have went on in the evening news with Dan Rather, like right when he said it. Yeah.

But you have to go digging for it to find it. And that's, you know, no one had done more digging for the rest of us than George. Yeah. And when, you know, and I think when 2017 rolled around and, and the New York Times and Chris and Lou. and that footage that gave everybody cover and permission to believe it. That's what I think. Like, you could believe it in public now. As you could say, I was in the New York Times.

Other media, Congress, people like Abby Lowe who get attracted to it. It's still like five years later, you know, but there's that, you know, UFOs are real and there might be aliens. That's a, that's a big leap for everyone. And but we've known about this for decades and it was hidden from you. Oh my gosh, that's another blow. There's more than one kind of non-human intelligence. And we don't even know if they're, we don't want to call them aliens because we don't know where they're from. They could be from other dimensions or they could be from here.

They've always been here in the oceans, you know. You know, maybe they created us. That's the other secret. Like part of the farm lab zoo thing. Nobody wants to be in a farm lab or zoo. All three, you know, imply a prison, unwilling captives. And how do you conduct? trying to conduct science, you know, if we're in a farm, lab, or zoo and just figuring out that

we're in a farm, lab, or zoo, that's like part of what science, you know, the mission science should be on to help us realize our circumstances and the nature of our reality. That's the other thing about that TTSA document, the other document they gave me, the implications of quantum mechanics. Yeah. Which all boils down to the wave function collapse and the double-slit experiment. And it seems that reality doesn't coales. and take shape, the cat inside the box is alive or dead until you open the box and look.

And then the cat becomes alive or dead. Until that moment when you open the box, it's in a superposition. It's both alive and dead and you don't know. And it doesn't actually happen. To me, that sounds like a video game. To me, that sounds like the video game engine only rendering things when you're looking in that direction. It's only rendering the part of the map that the player is able to view. Still happens in virtual reality. of you only able to see, you know, within your field of view. And that seems to be the nature of reality based on quantum mechanics. It exists for the observer.

It exists for the observer, which would make, you know, that's the scary. That's the scary. I am, you know, fascinated with the idea of simulation, obviously, being read books about it. But the, to me, what's, you know, and there are quantum. processes all over. Like even photosynthesis, even photosynthesis, photosynthesis plants turning energy from the sun into energy for themselves. That has quantum processes in it. So quantum mechanics is part of how the universe, the engine of the universe works. And the implications are human consciousness creates reality. And if that's the case, if you were going to grow humans for a purpose,

that might be a purpose for growing conscious beings is you are creating you're creating reality. It's a crazy science fiction implication that now has real world implications because we're moving from this old, are we alone, humans alone and evolved to consciousness

all by ourselves here, universe that we've been sold, to this new Star Trek-like universe or Star Wars type universe where there are more than one brand of non-human intelligence interacting with humanity. If we're a farm lab or zoo, it'd mean somebody else has the keys, and people are going to have trouble with any of those.

Somebody has the key to the farm in the lab of the zoo, and it's not us. The idea that consciousness may have existed before the universe did, people got to have trouble with that. Yeah. And is your theory you're saying like, so if you're kind of growing humans, that's a conduit to creating more consciousness, is that like, you're, with, you. the idea you know what it's yeah it's one idea uh one uh implication uh if you want like to have your mind blown yeah read those dirds there's yeah defense intelligence research documents yes

that i'll put off and eric davis uh put together those like spill it out like and i ask how i'll put off i got a signed copy of mine reach over there i'm a book show uh and signed copies of all the god's man in war and um uh uh but the the the The question I asked how put off was, what are we talking about? We're talking about the idea that you're kind of breeding humans to create more consciousness. You said that's one implication of it. But then you were talking about how put off.

And you're giving us another implication of how human consciousness can, or human beings can be built or put here to create consciousness. Right. And then harvest us in a sense. Or, yeah. Or, well, there's that, maybe what I was thinking of is Bob Monroe, the founder of the Monroe Institute, which got famous because the CIA did an analysis of the Monroe process. Yeah. Which is like a process of, that Bob Monroe developed this process of meditation and this thing using binaural beats to on headphones.

He on the radio station was like a recording engineer and he started to have out-of-body experiences. And it started to develop this method. of using, listening to vinyl beats to activate different lobes of your brain and allow you to enter out-of-body state and that he would have, then he would have experiences with other non-human intelligence. Have you ever had that? No. I never had a body experience.

I have never seen a UFO. I've never experienced a ghost, you know. I feel that if I was like you guys and I got the chance to go to Skinwalker Ranch and camp out there all night, you know, like George did. Yeah. But I have the same thing. Like, it's not messing with me. I'm fast.

It's like almost like the people who are fast. Same with Stephen. Yeah. It's like, he's like, you're the most deserving person ever to see a UFO. So it's never. It's so weird, man.

It's almost like the people that don't need to see him. I mean, sometimes UFO interactions are like car crashes, like people who have no interest in this. It's like, bam, they see a UFO, their jaws drop.

But the people that really want to see them, I believe, Ernie, if you keep looking up and if you keep it in your mind, you want to and you're not making it up. You're not seeing the ISS and making it up. You'll see something, man.

I should have to look up. I should have the government should wheel them out into a showroom, all 12 of them. Apparently, one of them looks like Santa Slay and it's got ram horns on the underside. You would have one in your garage in a week. Oh, man. I have to make do with pretend time machines and pretend spaceships when what I want is to see the real thing. Like, that's what kills me. Like you guys have had evidence, hard evidence of non-human intelligence and technology,

and even trying to figure it out. And you don't use the best scientists in the world. You use people like Bob Lazar with fucked up shit in their background. Then if they've lab, then you can discredit them. And they get like, oh, well, look at this guy. There's no way. You know, he just also happens to be a really good scientist who builds jet cars. And like Edward Teller, you know, here's what I want to know, Stan Friedman from Beyond the Grave.

Like, why is, why won't Edward Teller, like, talk to you about Bob Lazar? Answer the question. You just answer that question. Why won't Edler Teller? I was thinking Edward Teller is like, I will sit here at mute. Yeah. That's what Ed Teller says. So, so what he would ask about Bobblessar?

What are he's talking about is there's this interview where somebody asked Ed Teller, who's like the godfather of the hydrogen bomb. He's featured heavily in the new Christopher Nolan. Yeah. Oppenheimer. Which, by the way, I want to talk about, that freaked me out, Ernie. But so just about Ed Teller.

So Ed Teller, basically, he's asked directly about Bob Lazard. Do you know, Bob Azar? If you ask me that question again, I will go mute. Like he was just like, fuck you, don't ask that question, which is so revealing because just say no. Just say, I don't know the guy. But he didn't do that. Oh, yeah.

And so then I watch often. When everybody, it's been their security clearance, when you can see people, their spine goes rigid, when their security clearance is being. be threatened. Because when you talk to somebody about something like Bob Lazar, you're going to be asked about that later. Did you talk to anybody about Bob Lazar? And then you'd have to answer honestly, you know, about that. I think it happened to me when I was sitting in a table with, to the Stars Academy. And I mentioned the Wilson Davis memo and Admiral Wilson. And I was like, you know, I know you guys can't talk about that, but still like rigid spines. Like, oh, like, well,

we know. Who's this joke from Hollywood? Who's braying up stuff we're not allowed to discuss? They should be scared of you. You know too much. Like the way, no, no, no, the way that you. I know whatever's available on the internet, whatever, watching your podcast and watching need to know and like sorting through the, all, you can see all the books on my shelf. You should do a slow pan of the mountain of books that I've sorted through. Bullshit and the truth.

And you never know what's what. You like have to absorb all of this because intelligence agencies have like purposely muddied the water of our own, our own history. It's so, you know, and now like try to get everybody to believe like, oh, we were gaslighting you that whole time. Yeah, aliens were real. Roswell really happened. We really have been reverse engineering everything. Sorry about that.

Sorry. Whoops, you know. But we had to because farm labs, you know, or all three. You know, what would be great is if it was an abandoned farm lab or zoo. And, you know, they'd done there. Yeah. I finished their experiments and then left us and now we're here. I was thinking of the line of, from Escape from New York, another great John Carpenter film at the beginning when they're laying out the way the prison works.

And there's a line where it says there is just the prison and the world the prisoners have made. And sometimes I wonder if that's not what the earth is, like if it's a farm lab, zoo or just an ant farm, a terrarium set in motion to watch from outside for entertainment or. for artwork and music and movies and all this, you know, every time you set a world like Earthen Motion, you would get, you know, all of this art, music, history, popular culture, and it would play out a different way every time. And that would be, you know, fascinating as hell. And some really good entertainment, especially if you're just a super being in the void.

You know, I can see why, you know, and if you ran it, you know, if you ran that simulation different times, You know, one time you get the Beatles and the next time you get the Beatles with a whole different set of songs, you know. We like the drive-in movie theater of the solar system that come here and see a double feature or grad students come here to write their. Right. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank.

And then, you know. By the way, that's Dave Gresh right now. Have you ever talked with him? I have not. We like sent a message through you. Oh, we said a video. Yeah, you guys got to talk, man, because, you know, he has to stay. He's talking to come over here anytime.

He has to, well, he would love this place. Here's the deal, man. He was, he was, we were going to meet with him this weekend, but it ended up for a series of reasons. He couldn't come. And those reasons suck, dude. Like, he is being pressured right now to, if he steps outside of his stopser and like what he's agreed, you know. they are waiting to fucking bend him over that barrel as an example.

He's done enough. Like, should he just leave him alone? He could do a lot more, though. He could give. He's like already like, uh, because that was a thing. I think it was, I think there was a plan to tell everybody this because maybe can't be hidden for much longer. There was no plan, bro.

It's, it's fucking Vietnam. But it's been a gradual, you know, or maybe it's just like one bigger league after another, you know, uh, over the years. starting with George and Bob Lazar in 1989, it's been one leak after another. But you have to be a person who doesn't ignore it all and write it off as fiction and nonsense and pay attention. Because it's always, you know, and whenever you see a news story about it in the 90s or the odds or even now or the teens, even now the 20s, it's still give you a reason to not believe it. You don't have to believe this. If this idea of non-human intelligences, plural, is scary to you, you don't have to believe it.

Like, if that's threatening to your worldview, it's okay not to believe it. Calm down. Like, that's, I think, is the general, like, tenor because they're worried. Some people can't handle, you know, the parts of reality that are already kind of accepted. Like, George thinks that we can't handle it. I mean, to some degree. I think that there's a possibility that there's something dark there that we. And maybe there is a reason for keeping it secret.

I'm open to that possibility. I don't know what it is. And I think those farm zoo lab things. What if it's a with the other terrifying Rod Sterling-esque scenario, if it's a farm lab or a zoo, what if there's a shelf date on the farm lab with a zoo? Or like if the zoo gets out of hand or the, or the, you know, or the, you know, or the, this crop gets infected, and we got to burn it down and start over. Like, this crop is infected with blight. We're going to have to.

Avian flu gets into chicken coop. And what if blight is the monkeys realizing they're in the zoo? Like, that's why you have to keep it a secret because, like, if they find out that we all know, then, you know, the jig is up and they pull the plug on the matrix, which, you know, and everybody, again, all these people who've helped keep this secret, you know, it could be, you know, there's the real reason for giving it a secret, which is just to maintain sovereignty and control of your populace, because if you admit that you can't protect them and if they can get snatched out of their bed and experimented on and you can't do anything

about it, like, then why am I paying you taxes? Like, why, you know, like, you can't, and you can't get insurance for that. Like, it's, they're all harsh realizations that kind of break, break government and break governmental trust because you know government is willing to admit oh well there's a higher power and we can't you know it can't help you with uh being abducted or you know but clearly uh the thing that kills me and this is something that i always think about what bob said is you just can't not tell everyone yeah it's a prime against science most of all because the reason you guys haven't been able to figure it out is because you had your stove pipes up grasses yeah uh not having the best scientists and not letting the scientists that you do have, collaborate and screaming at them and drugging them so they forget.

No wonder you haven't been able to figure it out because you don't have all those, what, how many now? 21 of these alien spacecraft that you recovered. Like, they should be at all the major research institutions and every university and every science lab all around the world. We should all be working together. They're worried about leaks, man, because just like the atomic program, you get a leak and someone's going to make that bomb fast.

someone's going to weaponize it. They're worried about it. Right. You can't. Well, that's why we all have to die here in this spurness is because nobody can be trusted with free energy because we'll make it into a bomb. Like, we've already made fossil fuels into a bomb and it's like ticking. It's like we can already blow ourselves up yourself.

We're already. Like that ship has already sailed unless we obtain a technology that is on par with oil and free energy, like we can't feed our population. the population is 8 billion of us. And the way that we feed that right now is with petroleum and petroleum fertilizers and petroleum byproducts and the energy created with petroleum. We have to have that foot on the accelerator to keep all of us alive because we've, you know, and now the planet is creaking under the weight of all 8 billion of us.

It's creaking under the weight of. Yeah. But that's because we're not allowed to leave. Like there's a line from interstellar that I think of like Earth is a treasure, but she's been telling us to leave for a while now. And are we not allowed to leave? You know, like, are we loud to the moon? And then, man, I love, there's another fun thing to do.

Look at the press footage of Apollo astronauts, Neil and Buzz, before they go to the moon, and then watch their press conference after they've come back for the moon and watch just the whole, like, different tenor of their personality. And Elon Armstrong went off into the jungle and, like, searching for buried treasure. Yep. Crazy. Crazy.

Crazy stuff. A great documentary about that. Oh, there is a. But I lost my train of thought. Gila buzz. Gila buzz. You're talking about, yeah, you're talking about the difference when you see them coming before they went to the moon and when they come back.

Oh, yeah. But even before that, I went off on Apollo. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, did we go to the moon? Oh, yeah. Of course. We did, of course. But, well, that, my.

Is the footage real? Richard Licklater and Slacker, there's a whole monologue about, how when we went to the moon, it's like a crazy guy wandering the streets of Austin. But is he crazy? And he's saying that we've been on the moon since the 50s. Yeah. But when the Apollo asked, this is something I've heard and seen in many documentaries and people who said they have access to the medical channel that they switched to like

a back medical channel to say that they saw offline saucer hovering in the crater at the, a tranquility base at the landing site. So your understanding is that we went. but that we were warned off. I don't know. It's a famous story. Yeah. But there's definitely a difference in their demeanor.

Those are like gregarious, friendly guys before they went to the moon. And when they came back, you know, they were different. So have you seen, I just saw this, I think, on a YouTube channel called Eyes on Cinema. And it's an interview with Lear. That's one of my favorite guys that makes that. Oh, yeah, that is one of the best YouTube channels. It is one of the best YouTube channel. Red Pahua and Eyes on Cinema.

It's a YouTube channel. some of the best grabs of UFO footage on planet Earth. He just posted some interview with Lear that I had never seen. When? Just like a week or two ago. I'll show it to you and maybe you can use footage from it. But in it Lear, he probably is talking to another documentary filmmaker and he's in his office and he asks him about Wazaar and he says, he points to a chair in his office and says,

Bob used to come over here and sit in that chair after he came back to Marri-51 and tell me what had happened. And I know he denies it now, but he sat in that chair and told me that he saw. an alien and that he's wired it down. It's maybe now he saw a dummy, but he said at the time, I'll have to show it to you, but Lear, you know. Do I know the truth about that? I do.

Because I know both of them and I spent all that time. So here's the deal. I, so I asked both of them separately. I saw a piece of paper and I documented it. What happened was Bob did come back and he was shook from what he saw. He was walking down a hallway, took like a, just a millisecond glance, and he sees this something, you know, know, back with its in a chair and two guys talking to it. So initially...

And it's through one of those little rectangular windows with the, right, like in an institution. So he would have not gotten up, you know. No, he did it. So, so, but Lear also likes to, you know, kind of make things bigger and bigger. But, but, are you, John Lear? John Lear? But he, yeah, of course he does. But here's the deal. He squeezed them on it, right? He squeezed him on it. And so Bob doesn't know what he saw because that's way Bob's mind works. He knows he saw the silhouette of some small being and these people. However, John pushed him so hard. He goes, when you came over that night, you were sure you saw a being.

And now, so he goes, he says, I remember John wrote it down, had Bob sign it. And what he was saying was, okay, honestly, I do remember seeing something through that window. And it just didn't seem human. It didn't seem right. But now where Bob is, so much crazy in his life, he's just like, look, man, I saw the propulsion. I know that's true. I saw this thing for like a millisecond. How do I know? He said, how do I know? So that's something in the video. He shows this. You can't make it out in the video, but he shows him a drawing. Yeah, Bob. Do you tell you seen that drawing? I have it. I've

never seen a picture. Yeah, dude. I got that. I got an old document, all the film. I've never seen that draw. I would love to see it. Oh, dude. It was a furying. They couldn't see it in every drawing he ever did since all the interactions was drawn in a folder in my phone. Every drawing, I'll give him to you, digital. This is my first middle grade fiction novel. So I've written three novels Congress Avenue Bridge in downtown Austin has the world's largest urban bat colony living under it and every night during the summertime around sunset the bats fly out under the bridge in this long stream into the sky to go feed all night and uh it's a really amazing sight and it's like part of the Austin oh part of the Austin culture um is uh going to see the

bats it was like something that everybody described to you when i first moved to town you got to go see the the bats and it was really like a powerful thing and such a weird element of austin like part of the whole key boston weird thing was like the capital it's like two blocks from the capital is this you know invasive species and initially when they moved in around 1982 they were going to burn them out with flamethrowers and then put up nets and screens so they couldn't get back in because they were worried about rabies but then this guy uh conservationist merlin tuttle uh came down from chicago saw this story, the newspapers were running all these stories about vampire bats invade Austin. And

so people were really afraid of them. And this conservationist, Merlin Tuttle came down and explained that they're really beneficial. They eat like their own weight in insects, tons of insects every night and crop pests and really good for farmers and gardeners and mosquitoes that spread disease. And for a city full of outdoor music venues, it was like the best thing that ever could have happened. So like in the space of like about eight, seven, eight years, they went from invasive species to adopting them as the town mascots. And I was thought, what a great story. Like if you're going to do like a Pixar movie, kind of anthropomorphic animals, you know,

and it's a story that's a uniquely Austin story about outsiders and weirdos who find their place in the world. Like they fit right in in Austin if you're a weirdo. And it's kind of my story too coming to Austin and finding that my weird sensibilities like fit right in here. So it's that kind of. story and it's middle grade fiction. It's like for like kids like nine to 13, but I think everybody will enjoy it. And it's kind of like true grit. It's like a Charles Portis kind of, uh, uh, I call it a

mostly true tall tale about the weirdest town in Texas. So Bridge to Bass City and it's coming out April of 2024. I could be a like a Pixar movie for sure. I hope. I think it would be a great animated, uh, movie. And it's again, set in the 80s in, uh, in Austin. in kind of an undefined year at all. I kind of combine 10 years of events down into one summer. So not, that's why it's a tall, a tall tale. But I weave, you know, Willie Nelson and Stevie Ray Vaughan, Janice Joplin and all these Austin musicians into the story and has its own soundtrack.

And I think you guys will dig it. That one of the most famous cases. I have to tell you this. My story. Yeah. Yeah, I would love the year. He just said that part at least on camera. I have to say my story. That means George Knapp has a UFO story. The entry. This is, oh, you know what? We got a call right now.

President? The red phone. George Knapp has almost told his personal UFO story. Beware. Never has so few, has so much to tell, but could say so little. Following this and weaponized, the presentation of Jeremy Corbelle, George Knapp, Dark Course Entertainment, and Cade. Since 13 Studios, available now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows.