WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - Immaculate Constellation, Congressional UFO Hearings & A Parade Of Aliens

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

This past week, Americans were captivated by the enigma of Non-Human Intelligence (NHI). In Washington, a planned UAP hearing was abruptly canceled, but behind closed doors, key lawmakers received explosive briefings on secret programs and ongoing cover-ups. With an assist from noted whistleblower David Grusch, a small cadre of expert witnesses fueled these high-stakes discussions. Meanwhile in Oregon, thousands gathered to watch a spectacular parade of bizarre creatures, hammerhead aliens, marching musicians from other galaxies, and noted speakers as part of the McMinnville UFO Fest, which is likely the most colorful gathering of its kind in the world. On social media, our three-part interview with Matthew Brown about Immaculate Constellation and other secrets continued to reverberate and spark debates among UFO luminaries. What lingering questions remain about Brown? In this new episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy and George address Matt Brown’s claims, answer many of the questions that have surfaced, and provide glimpses of what might come next for Matt and for future whistleblowers. Oh yes, and what about AARO’s attempt to muddy the waters regarding the world-famous flying jellyfish? Is this a deliberate distraction or a genuine misstep? This episode covers a lot of ground. GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠••• If you missed the full IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION series with UFO whistleblower, Matthew Brown... you can catch up here : PART 1 : https://youtu.be/ZAxI-LDrDqA PART 2 : https://youtu.be/4n_bRtnIP14 PART 3 : https://youtu.be/PtBVAxoHeaY ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I do fingers cross. Have hope that in the weeks to come, we're going to have more public hearings from firsthand people, either touching craft or exposure on the inside directly. Some of the higher ups in Congress, Clearly, do not want this to get traction. Arrow puts out something on X. It's a 17-minute clip of the jellyfish UAP, which, by the way, we told them where to go get, so you're welcome.

And second of all, they're trying to put out 17 minutes to confuse what we did in our original reporting. If you go look on the weaponized website, it was under the water for 17 minutes. The whole set of footage over the base and everything, it's almost an hour. Well, putting it out at three minutes after our high noon, Tuesday, which is always when we release our episodes, three minutes later, doesn't seem like an accident. It looks like counter-programming. Look over here. Don't pay attention to that. They had an idea what was coming, and they didn't like it.

Matt's a really eloquent guy when he talks. He's so thoughtful, really intelligent. And so he did give his personal understanding, which is an informed opinion, because it's based upon a multi-year investigation. he did internally. So I think we should put some weight on it. But people are putting that out, like he made a final statement that included the word God.

Oh my gosh, did people flip the lid? The Immaculate Constellation was not a war game for that. It was part of, or a piece of paper in there that dealt with ideas of what war games could look like. But that's not what Immaculate Constellation was. That program was also, by the way, it was known to us through various means before. There's nine different programs

that are in the legacy program. Insiders. who aren't happy that he's gone public, and I think that they want to discourage other people from going public, we think that they're going to be unsuccessful in those efforts to intimidate other people that we're aware of. George Dap coming from the bunker here in Las Vegas. Jeremy, where are you hanging out?

Look, man, I'm just here for the alibi. Quite a UFO week. We actually had fun. You know, sometimes it's supposed to be fun, but it doesn't always work out that way. This week it did. Man, I love that. So we went to the McMinville UFO Fest.

A McMenemans puts it on. You've told me a little bit about McMenamins, but I mean, like vintage hotels restored with beers, people dressing up, alien costumes. It was such a fun group of people. And look, dozens of thousands of people, that's what was crazy, just on the street walking around. I had a really good time, man.

Yeah, it's unlike any other UFO get-together that I, I've ever been to, and I've been to them all over the world for a long time. I think the only thing it's comparable is Phenomicon up there in Vernal, Skinwalker Territory. This is the most fun UFO event ever. I say that every time we've been there, every time I've been there, I mean, you got, you know, there was probably 15, 16,000 people lining the parade route. They have a parade. They have all these marching bands and local businesses and putting on costumes and just

having fun. I mean, there's nothing quite like it. They have vendors selling all kinds of really creative stuff. I mean, inside the hall itself, where the speakers were, it's good, good information. It's solid speakers. But outside, it's all fun. You know, it's not all that serious. There weren't any hard cases griping, complaining, taking notes, and trying to debunk this or that. It was, there's just nothing quite like it. You know, I think, you know, Lou spoke, Lou Elizondo, Danny Sheehan, Brit Elders, you know, that was a great lineup. We got in there and gave our two cents. I don't know how we stack up with the other speakers, but we got some things off our chest,

and it was fun. It was, man. I mean, I'll make the joke again, but you drag me to these things. But here's the deal. People try to get you to go to these things, and we do so few of them. And I was like, oh, McNinville, when you said that word, I was like, I got to do it again. I got to do it again. So I am really excited about that.

I know also at least you're going to contact, right, coming up? I am. We can talk about that toward the end, maybe. I don't want to mix the two, but I said on the stage there in McMinville that McMinnamans, this company, they do all this stuff that it is admirable. They restore, save, repurpose old buildings, old schools. They're very cool. All of them have different themes.

That's great. They grow their own grapes and have. their own wine lines. They have breweries that produce their own beers. They import coffees, roast their own coffees. They have all these cool products and a great appreciation for music. And I ask them, hey, do you guys need an investigative reporter? You know, because that's a great company. Yeah. So I have a highlight from our trip together. I love traveling with you doing these things. It's really fun. I have a highlight. Do you have a highlight from the weekend? I'm not sure I want to say what it is, and I certainly don't want to show the video.

You have something? You want to pop out? Yeah, man. They were so crazy. They gave me a golf cart and keys and an alienator beer, and they said, you can drive around the whole town with this golf cart for the entire weekend. I was like, are you kidding me? I don't know why they did that, but you can pop a wheelie in a golf cart. That's what I learned and proved scientifically. Yeah, it was fun. We did get to show. share with the audience up there about the podcast, about weaponized, how it's doing. We have done really well in some shows, and we don't really check into how it ranks on all these various

podcast platforms. But I guess Matthew Brown really attracted a lot of viewers, viewers and listeners, and we were back at number one in the science category, which is where we should be, I guess, but we should let people know. We did not choose the science category. We were surprised when we learned that is our category. And we are glad to be number one in the category. We are also glad that Neil de Gras Tyson, who's not all that friendly to the UFO topic, is down that list looking up at us. And he's got to be wondering, who the hell are those guys? They're not scientists, right? Yeah, the UFO thing has always been linked to science anyway. But, you know, I think the bigger picture for me is that when a show about UFOs can reach out into popular culture that is, you know,

beyond just paranormal or beyond those types of words when people are like cataloging them. It's a win for everybody. So that was really cool to see the trending and the sustaining, hey, weaponized, number one podcast and science. I'll take it. The main thing to me, though, is just people are listening and it's transcending into popular culture. And I think that's really cool. Yeah, I mean, Matthew Brown, those three shows we did to them, clearly connected with the audience. We got a lot of great feedback, you know, from all over.

over the world and people have a lot of questions that we'll get into tonight but i mean we're not just number one in science i mean we're doing pretty well across the board look man more people are listening and i'm excited about that one of the things i want to jump into right away with you is because it's outside of my scope of knowledge but for you i saw on reddit that apparently there was some leak right of all sap materials or some government materials and then there was this long thing where they're just absolutely say an absolute nonsense. So whoever released some documents, and I want to find out from you, is that a leak? And then from there, what they said was trying to kind of create disinformation about Jay Stratton, Loua Lozando, all this stuff. And I just want to hear from you,

did you see the images in that Reddit post? I did. And I'll just tell you this. They look familiar. I am familiar with that material. It is, some of that is a leak. There is no context whatsoever. it's posted by somebody anonymous on Reddit. They put it out there and then they, I think they killed the account that was used to spread it out there. This was an attack. This was, this is a disinformation program. It's what I would call debunking.

And although that material that was released is real, again, what do you make of it? What are you supposed to make of it? If that person really does have access to all the OSAP files, Release it, put it out. I've said this for years. I mean, there's nothing in those files that the public can't handle, that the public should not see. So if that person is actually going to do what they claim they're going to do and spill this stuff out, get to it, let's go. But, you know, these scurrilous attacks that they used, implying that there's something in those files that provides a basis for the attacks they made on Jay Stratton and Lou Elizondo, sort of gives the whole thing.

away because there is nothing in those in those files that says that stuff absolutely not they accused jay stratton of being this uh UFO czar whose power extends all over the globe he's been able to thwart special technology in this country you know technology developed from ossap and studies of UFOs not only this country i saw a couple of days after this attack somebody posted something i know for sure that j straton has killed new advanced technology here in Australia. What a bunch of crap. What is Jay Stratton Superman? He has the power to kill tech companies in Australia. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. What was your take on it? Yeah. So I saw a couple of the images and in color that showed a page or two of the DIA's analysis of the TikTok UAP. But I know all the bear troughs. I know all the lies, all of the stuff

that they're trying to do. So when I first saw that, I'm like, okay, whoever this is, they have very low access to information. So they're putting things out as if they have a lot of access. You just called for them to release everything. Go ahead and do it, Mr. Reddit. They're not going to do it because they don't have access to it. But the deal is it was an attention grabber. So they do this attention grabber. And by the way, you and I are very familiar with 100 plus page analysis, scientific analysis of the Ticktac UAP, which we tried. You tried. You tried. to get on a congressional record. We couldn't quite do it.

If somebody else can do it, that'd be great. But what I noticed, George, was it was like an attention grabber, so everybody would read what they wrote and try to give it more weight than it should. And what I saw there was an absolute classic counterintelligence, misinformation, disinformation attempt to, you know, kind of put shade on people like Lou Elizando, like Jay Stratton, who I do believe are doing their best to get information out in the best way that they can. So I saw it as like a honey trap.

I saw it as a way of say, hey, I've got your attention. I'm not going to really put out anything really special, but listen to what I write and take it seriously. So in my technical terminology, I would say it was absolute horseshit. And that's kind of what I noticed. And I just want to get your take on it

because you are probably the only person outside of government who has had 100% access to all of the OSAP files that we are aware of. And as you've said from time to time, if you stacked them from the floor to the ceiling, they'd go up to the top. Now, I just want to be clear. As a journalist, you know,

there's a difference with keeping things back. Like, you've made promises. And those promises, that's your currency as a journalist. If you tell someone you're not going to talk about something, you don't talk about it. So we do hope there is a leak. Go ahead. Do it.

It's not classified. Put it out. We challenge you to do so. But I don't think it's going to happen. I think they use that to try to. to disinformed the American public by using Reddit. And I want people to really hear my words on that. There was nothing they offered you that was really special. And what they did write was technically called horseshit. Yeah. I mean, they used some documents from a real program with no context,

has no meaning whatsoever. Nobody's going to be able to make anything out of it as a calling card, as a way to get people's attention. And anonymous electrical engineer who worked for ASAP, that's the claim. Look, I'm telling you, there are not that many electrical engineers who work for ASAP. So this person, if they're trying to remain anonymous, it's pretty stupid. Secondly, it's not somebody that worked for ASAP. This is from an agency. This is somebody that's going after Jay and Lou to try to undercut their credibility at a key moment. Jay Stratton is the only guy who was there at ASAP at the initial stages, helped to set it up. The first guy to investigate the Tick-Tac incident and write reports about it. Then he was there for at-tip at the top of the

heap working with insiders there. He became the head of the UAP task force before it existed. He was assigned, given that job, did a great job pulling together a bunch of experts from different agencies, then Congress officially authorized it, and they made him the top. That might have been the last era when we had actual transparency and truth from any of these UFO programs while Jay was there. He's got a book coming out. He's still waiting for Dobser, that's the Pentagon censor system, to go ahead and go through every line and make sure that he's allowed to say the things he's about to say. He has a unique vantage point. There's no one quite like him anywhere in the U.S. government, who's worked on that many programs over that much time and has seen the things that he has seen. So the book is still awaiting the Pentagon's approval before it can be published. It's been months and months and months.

In addition, he is one of the central figures in Dan Farrah's film about UFO transparency and disclosure that is not out yet. They had a premiere in Austin a couple months ago that you and I went to, but it's not out yet. And I think that this leak was meant to undercut the credibility of that film as well as Stratton's book. It seems pretty clear. I talked to a number of intelligence folks about this anonymous post, as you have. They think it is horseshit, and it comes from the, inside, not from the outside. Yeah, look, man.

So let's go into a few things we've seen in popular culture on UFO X and what's been going on. Like the whole thing, we just spent a weekend with Lou. You're talking about Jay Stratton. Man, all of these people, they're telling you to the best of their ability what they can without crossing over classified lines, just like Dr. James Lekatsky when he admitted to breaching the whole of a UAP on our show, right? So Lou was getting a bunch of heat because he held up some photo that ended up being irrigation circles. You know, he did try to qualify it. I watched it too. He says this needs more, you know,

investigation and that kind of thing. But damn, people are just attacking him. He made a mistake. This is not some plant from him or from someone else within the intelligence agencies. You and I were not picking sides when it comes to the UFO thing. But, man, you got to really give people a little bit of leeway, man, when they're doing their best. it was a mistake. I mean, I talked to about, I talked to Lou about it this weekend, George, and it was like, dude, it was a mistake, you know, that's going to happen. People are human,

right? So I feel bad that the mistake happened for him and all that stuff, but, you know, we can't push him out. He's got to keep fighting, man, because, you know, he was involved with the UAP projects, like Jay Stratton, was involved, verified. We got to

cut him a little slack and do our best. I just, I felt bad that that was, you know, really brought up where people really shit on them. It's good to know more information, but that was, I just want to squash all of the conspiracy theories. I know Lou personally, take what I have to say, you know, take it or leave it. That wasn't intentional. Oh, I mean, we did hear some details about how that came about, that there were, you know,

somebody needed some red meat and that was how it came about. And I thought he explained himself well, look, this was given to me. I have embedded it. I'm not going to say too much of it. He didn't claim its secret classified document from deep inside the Pentagon or something. He made that pretty clear. But look, let's say, you know, I remember interviewing a Clark County Sheriff long ago, unrelated to UAP. Police officer had messed up.

And I'm talking about, you know, how do you deal with the cops doing really stupid things? They said, look, that's always going to be the way it is as long as we hire humans. Humans make mistakes. We've made them. I hope I live long enough to make mistakes. more of them. And I would expect that to happen because we are flawed. I don't think it's a terrible stain on Lou's credibility that he showed that because he explained the context. And look, in the long run, if you got a purported UFO, video, photo, whatever, and somebody can explain

it, you cross it off the list. That's not a loss. That's a plus. Okay, we cross that one off the list. We move on to something else. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Absolutely. There's a couple other things just in the ether. People are sending me like text with screenshots. I hear all this chatter about, you know, FBI being involved with the UFO thing, how there are certain groups that are looking in it and they showed some stuff to Congress. Look, I don't know all the feds involved with the UFO thing. But I think that's a good thing. If you have the FBI involved looking at this issue in a broad scope, I think that's good. So I don't know everybody. I know there's different factions of FBI that look at this stuff. But ultimately, I think it's good. I think it's the way it's being reported. Like, is the FBI trying to get funding from the UAP caucus, as was reported? I don't know. But I do know that DOJ would be great as allies if they're really trying to learn the truth about

UAP, don't you think? Totally agree. I hope they do get funding. I mean, you know, a lot of FBI jobs have been eliminated in the new administration. And I'm sure a lot of these guys are wondering what's next for their law enforcement careers. The fact that the FBI is involved in investigating UFO, UAP-related issues should be a surprise to no one. You'll recall, I've talked about this in public. Years ago, before FOIA was the law of the land, you write to the FBI say, hey, have you guys looked into UFOs?

The answer is no. FOIA becomes the law of the land in the mid-70s, and suddenly the FBI had to release hundreds and maybe even thousands of pages of stuff. They had been collecting things. Of course they should. security implications to this matter. There are Russians and people from other nations who are actively gathering information. They're watching what goes on. They're looking for leaks. So the FBI should. That's part of its job. It should be involved. I should also remind our listeners and viewers that the incidents in 2019, if you're wondering if this FBI interest in

the topic is new, in 2019, 10 U.S. warships were, basically, basically buzzed by unknown objects. Drones, you can call them, but they were, you know, the USS Omaha and other ships. We don't know what they were. We've shared a lot of very good evidence that this was real. A lot of folks tried to say the Bass Strait, this Chinese registered ship, was the source of all these drones. By the time the Bass Strait got to Long Beach Harbor, there were FBI agents there waiting for it. And they went on that ship and they searched it. No drones. No drone launches, no drone mechanisms, none of it. They wiped that out. They were working at that time in 2019 with Jay Stratton's UAP task force. He had reached out to all across government to bring in different

people with different specialties to be part of that team and the FBI was part of it. So I'm glad there are FBI guys working on different aspects of this. I'm glad that they have a long history with it and I think they should get funding. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work. Use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less

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jobs. Ambition comes in all shapes sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. So the other thing that was kind of in popular news, oh, and by the way, we know some of the FBI that actually boarded the Bastray and, you know, shame on 60 minutes again for trying to perpetrate a continuous misinformation about Bastrate, about the 2019 events. Shame on them. But we're going to clarify a little bit more. Another thing that was put out into public that I just want to get your perspective on. I'll say something because I'm close to it,

but, you know, there was promised to have new UFO hearings that were supposed to happen the week of the 12th, and they didn't happen. The public ones didn't happen. And I've got a little background on that. I can probably tell you why. But here's what people might not know. You know, maybe in UFOX and that people know, but there were two classified briefings. And I think that's coming out public enough where I could say something. So one of those classified briefings on UAP, the week of the 12, was actually in a skiff with David Grush and also Representative Burleson. And Arrow was supposed to be informing Representative Burleson and others about the UAP topic.

Then you got David Grush sitting there looming old to make it sure they don't say something that's not true. I mean, you know, through little birdies, I heard some of pop. possibly some of the things they tackled. All I got to say is, we are so lucky to have someone like David Grush sitting in a room like that so that Arrow can't obfuscate, lie, and pretend they're doing something they're not.

There's probably conversations going on and what types of analysis they were doing to debunk things. Man, I'd love to have a guy like David Grush sitting right there behind whose job it was at NRO to look at stuff like that, who has a deep knowledge, came forward as a whistleblower,

and was able to kind of, I hope in that room, was able to bring everybody to brass tacks. Word on the wash, you know, Bertie's tell me that it was awesome to have David Grush in that room because he kicked some ass for UFO transparency. Yeah, it would be great to be in that room, be a fly on the wall or see a transcript or a tape. I don't think we're ever going to see that.

But we do have little bits and pieces of what it was like. And I guess I think he gave a bitch slapping to a couple of, people at a couple of issues, including ones that we are involved with, some things that we've reported. Some cases, yeah. So that's what, you know, within staffers and within members, you know, we know a lot of people and maybe once in a while we got sources inside, right? So it's kind of cool to hear that it was that there was that classified briefing.

So that was really cool. The other one, I believe if I had to guess, I would believe it would have been like Eric Davis, Mike Gold. I would believe that. I don't know for sure, but I would believe that they were in a classified briefing and that they were talking with a whole bunch of members and representatives. And that when they were doing that briefing,

that they were able to kind of talk at a level, which they couldn't in the public thing. So although we didn't have what everybody wanted that week of the 12th, which is like open, congressional, public hearings, with firsthand whistleblowers, which I was fighting for, still fighting for, like for Matthew Brown as well. I think the American public should have them on the stand. and maybe put his hand on a Bible or something and let him talk, right?

It'd be great under oath to hear that. But I will say this, Representative Luna, Representative Birchit, Representative Burleson, and apparently Ogles, Representative Ogles as well, if they keep fighting, we support you, and we want to have more hearings. And because I've been talking with the people that are arranging all of that, they've been tapping you and me to try to get the best first-hand whistleblowers there. I do fingers cross, have hope that in the weeks to come, we're going to have more public hearings from firsthand people, either touching craft or exposure on the inside directly to the cover

up. So I just want to kind of give people hope that, you know, this is active, the people that I'm talking with, that we're going to get more hearings. Now, how much power those hearings has? That all depends on the quality of the witnesses, not people you can just see on ancient aliens, but people that have something to say, you haven't heard for, you know, about before. So I just want people to know, I'm fighting really hard to get that to be the case in coordination with members who I trust compared to the slippery members that did the last hearing that completely lied to the American public. The ones I named are on the straight and narrow. They're ones I trust so far. So let's get going. Let's get some more hearings, George.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I do not question their motives. I think their interest in the topic is legit, the people that you mentioned there. It's like pushing a giant rock up the hill, though, you know, at Congress. We went 50-plus years with no hearings. Now there have been multiple hearings and multiple briefings. This is progress. So if a hearing doesn't happen on a date when they wanted it to happen, for a variety reasons, it's not the end of the world.

It's just the way things work in Washington. There are competing priorities. I also think that some of the higher-ups in Congress, Congress clearly do not want this to get traction. They have made it as hard as possible for those people you just mentioned, hard to get in a skiff, hard to schedule hearings. And then, you know, they added a whole big menu of stuff and said, here, here you go, while you're at it, investigate all this, and you got four months to do it. You know, they almost made it an impossible task. But these people, they know what the reality is. They're plugging away at it and trying to do their best.

our respect and our appreciation and not our scorn. Yeah. So I do want to talk now about what a lot of people I'm sure are tuning in for, which is the Immaculate Constellation three-part release. And I want to get into that. But to preface that, I think it was really interesting that once again, the Arrow, who I did a large public thing about if you read through my X, you'll see I ask them to do two things. Release more of the jellyfish UAP footage, number one. Number two. Number two, to make a public denouncement of statements by Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick and by Tim Phillips who go on platforms such as the platform was LinkedIn and they disparage whistleblowers when they come forward.

Fuck that. I think the current guy that's running Arrow who's the director, even if he can't part his hair without authority, should publicly denounce those statements from former heads of Arrow because it's like they still represent Arrow in a way because people know their face. It's ridiculous. And so I want to tell you about something. Within three minutes of us releasing Part 1 with Patriot and Whistleblower Matt Brown, Arrow puts out something on X. It's a 17-minute clip of the jellyfish UAP, which, by the way, we told them where to go get. So you're welcome. And second of all, they're trying to put out 17 minutes to confuse what we did in our original reporting.

If you go look on the weaponized website, it was under the water for 17 minutes. The whole set of footage over the base and everything, it's almost an hour. It's almost an hour. So they chose that 17 minutes, right, to be able to confuse the public. They did that within minutes of us releasing our first piece with Matthew Brown. But also, all they released was the promise of a proper debunking. Go ahead and do it. I freaking dare you.

Go ahead and do it. Try. So, anyway, I just thought it was so funny. Like usual, with their pattern, arrow. We released something off the USS Russell. They release something that looks like it. We released something called the Baghdad Phantom. They release something that looks like it.

We release the Mosul Orb. They release something that looks like it. It is a constant pattern with them. you're not going to earn public trust with these types of shenanigans. So it was so funny they did that. They tried to scoop up public attention by putting out something about how in the future they're going to try to debunk the jellyfish UAP. Okay, great.

Show us the goods. Show us exactly how you did it. And then later in the week, they released new UAP footage. It was so underwhelming. But look, I'm not going to argue that. Any UAP footage is fine. But didn't they just say they're not going to release, on release cases?

or on fixed cases, resolved cases, aren't you called Arrow? What is that stand for, George? What does Arrow stand for? I have no idea anymore. I know it doesn't stand for what they say. I think it's Resolution Office, so aren't you supposed to resolve stuff?

Anyway, I'm glad you put stuff out, but don't try this slide-of-hand bullshit with us. But anyway, they did it right when Matthew Brown stuff came out. So I do want to talk to you about that, because we do have more witnesses, by the way, from the jellyfish UAP. So I can't wait to see what it is that they end up putting out. But George, what did you think about that timing?

And then let's just talk about M-Con. Let's talk about Matthew Brown. Let's talk about what it took, how long it took, what those three parts are, why we released three parts. Let me know what you think about the timing, and then let's get into Matthew Brown. Well, putting it out at three minutes after our high noon, Tuesday, which is always when we release our episodes,

Three minutes later, doesn't seem like an accident. It looks like counter-programming. Look over here. Don't pay attention to that. They had an idea what was coming, and they didn't like it. You know, the really weak, feeble attempt to say that jellyfish has been debunked is what we've been seeing for a while. Let us say at the outset, as I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, if you could debunk it, if there's a way to explain it, fine.

You know, cross it off the list. That's great. But you and I shared that information with the guys who were in charge of the UAP task course. They had never seen it before. It was not submitted to UAP task force. Some claims by people who say they were working for the, or they were on the board of or a member of the UAP task force.

Oh, yeah, we debunk that. Bullshit. You didn't have it until we gave it to them. And that was after the UAP task force was done. So if you want to debunk it, If there's good arguments, great. I haven't seen any good arguments, though. You know, the last burst of info was about how they are balloons.

There was a great analysis of jellyfish that I saw a couple of days ago. We'll come back to Matt Brown in a second. If I can find it before the end of this podcast, I'll mention the guy's name. But he says, this is not, these are not balloons. They don't act like balloons. That's preposterous. People are still telling him, no, it's not balloons. It's bird shit on the lens.

you know, bird shit that rotates, you know, balloons that don't react to wind or temperature or anything like that. That's not the explanation. If you can come up with a good one that works, great. There was purposeful confusion and disinfo about the video that we released that was meant to confuse people, the 17 minutes, as you mentioned. We've been pounded on social media. I mean, we've been in Oregon for a couple of days, so we didn't see all of but why don't these guys release the rest of the video? Why are they keeping it back? Hmm, let's see.

What would the answer be, Jeremy? We don't have it. Right. I mean, it saw it. Right. So check it out. Part of why we do this reporting is to hold people accountable. We tell them where to go find stuff and we see if they put it out.

If they don't, maybe there are other ways to get that footage out. But more importantly, I want to try to see if people will do it. do the right thing. We have witnesses that will come forward, if need be, that have confirmed every aspect of what we reported. What I really hope is that people go back to the original reporting and read on our website exactly word for word what we said. If you actually do that, you will understand the case. If then you watch, for example, all three parts of the Matthew Brown interview before you comment on. it, then maybe you're going to be kind of light years ahead of where you are now.

So I challenge you, our viewers who are great, who are amazing, who actually do watch the whole thing, but I hope other people go and watch the full three parts. There is a bigger story to tell about the jellyfish UAP. And if you look at our original reporting, you're going to get an idea about that. I stand behind this 100%. The object went into the water for about 17 minutes. then it came out. It is not balloons. I would like to know what it is. But if we had a comparative example of what balloons look like through infrared, that'd be pretty amazing. Maybe filmed on a government

platform. But, you know, we don't need that if people are honest. So let's see what happens. Let's talk about Matthew Brown. Sure. So is that his real name, George? Is that his real name? Or did we lie to everybody and fake his name? Is his name Matthew Brown? I think we made it up, but you go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong. Now, let's just hit a few things. So Matthew Brown is his real name. And Matthew Brown held every position that we documented and recorded that he did hold. And it's not just us.

It's a number of journals that were able to verify and vet that. In fact, he was vetted by our own government. He was vetted before I ever brought him in to talk with members of Congress. He was vetted before he went and gave closed-door briefings to people on the inside about what it is that he discovered initially and then also what he did over those years looking at the UAP topic and independent investigation. So yes, his real name is Matthew Brown. It's a real person. We weren't trying to be coy or change the name. We would have told you if we used a different name. George, why three parts? Why, George, now, did you go in and edit out three parts on your computer so it

didn't come out all at one time? There's a couple things go into it. It is not a grand marketing strategy. We're not marketing geniuses, you know, but there is some thought that went into it, a lot of thought. Number one, we sat down with him for a long time. We've been talking to it for a long time. There's a lot of information to absorb. You and I don't do three-hour, four-hour podcasts. We don't. A lot of people, our buddy Joe Rogan, they make it work. We don't do that. We don't want our viewers and listeners to spend half of their day to get through something. So, we spread it out a little bit, in part because he had a lot of stuff to say, and it takes a little bit of time for it to filter through the brain. We wanted people to have a chance to absorb it,

to think about it, before we dump the next pile on them. And the third one, you know, Matt Brown obviously comes across as a serious, smart, somber young man. We know for sure that he worked at the places where he said he worked. Yeah. More importantly, he went through every proper step to bring this to the attention of higher ups. He tried to go through proper channels, and he was smacked and rejected every step of the way. He did not want to take this step and go in public.

We have even advised him it may not be a really good idea for him. This came about because he felt he had no choice. And, you know, I think the people that want to debunk them, attack him, discredit him, are having a hard time landing blows that stick. They're trying all kinds of different things. There's a whisper campaign that we'll talk about at some point, but they're not quite sure how to deal with that guy. But it takes you 15 minutes into any of those episodes to realize,

this guy's for real. He's not making this stuff up. It's possible he's made a mistake somewhere along the way. But we can talk about the attributed errors and miscommunications as we go forward with this conversation. Yeah, I mean, you even say in the interview, like, we don't know if we're going to error this. So you can kind of get a tone in a sense

that we were documenting everything, but we weren't even sure at that time we were going to air it. That was a choice that only Matthew Brown could have made. And it wasn't an easy choice. I mean, this is a guy that lived, you know, behind for a long time, the public front. So it's a big choice to do that for your family. But I think risk reward.

At some point, the risk is so high. high and people on the inside know who you are, that he made that choice. I do want to tackle a few specific things that I've read and want to make sure everybody's really clear on them. So we weren't sure. Why do we break it up into three parts? So my strategy, my little strategy on that was, oh my gosh, like this is important. If we're going to put it out, it needs to be in chunks where the media will pick it up, grab onto something, start processing and understand, and we can sustain that all along so that we get for the UFO world, man, we get some more coverage that is thoughtful. So it's not in one day out the other because I think it's really important what

he had to say. So it's not highly edited. I want everybody to know that. It's not like we cut out huge chunks of really important information. Man, we talked a bunch and not just on that one day. I mean, many, many, many days, many months. And I'll even go further than that for a long time been talking with that. So the idea of what we can present, it's not like out of order in a weird way. That is the flow. What you see is the essential flow of our conversation. We put everything that we could put in while still protecting sources, even if they don't protect themselves. Matthew Brown is a whistleblower. And, you know, in order to do that right and get it out, I think three parts was really helpful. It was for me, even just to like follow.

through with it. I want to also say, Lou Elizondo did not create the M-Con exoperate. Whoever said that online is just they didn't watch the episodes or they just need to eat some brain pills. I don't know. We ended up being able to talk with Lou and other people. He never created

that document. His picture was on it, which was pretty weird, and we're trying to figure that part up. But I think that was an internal warning from the intelligence agencies, which we've seen before. Tim Phillips posted on Sipronet. essentially a warning to anybody that came to Arrow that they can no longer be trusted because they broke their NDAs. That's right up there on classified servers if people want to go take a look

who have access. So I think it was more of like a warning. Look, oh my God, this guy came out public. His name's Lou Elizondo. He certainly didn't write it. And also it wasn't, I think it was probably that was before Lou actually came public when that document was started to be sorted, but I don't know for sure. Well, it's 2018 Shriver Wargame. So Lou had just come come out. And they were using him as sort of the boogeyman in that record. Don't do what this guy did. And it was a warning. You know, there's his face on this page. A lot of folks had asked, oh, back to the point about Y3 episodes. I don't think folks realize how carefully you and Michael, our editor, went through every line from every statement, every sentence, every paragraph,

to be careful. I mean, as we've said many times, you have to protect your sources even from themselves. So we want to make sure, you know, this was a big step for him, for Matt, and we told him multiple times,

look, there's no going back from this. Are you sure you want to do it? We're not pushing him to go forward because he realized it changes his life forever. He can never go back to that world. He can never get a job in that world again. Things are going to be different from here on. And he also recognized that UFO people would be bashing him and talking it up.

And he was going to have a lot of trouble dealing with that. But, you know, you guys spent weeks going through it so that to make sure he didn't cross a line and say something they really should not say, he's been careful every step of the way. You know, he's tried to go through the channels in the process. And we didn't want to screw that up because of something we had recorded. Yeah. And in fact, he didn't cross any lines, but we were meticulous and just making sure whatever. every word meant because we're talking about UAP, but also he had high, Matthew Brown had high responsibility when it came to weapons of mass destruction. And we just wanted to make sure that

he didn't self-harm in some way by talking just because when you're talking, sometimes things come out, but looking through the footage and everything, there was nothing major we cut out and there's nothing that he said that was over the line. He did everything by the book. He's exemplary, absolutely exemplary. And I really, I advise people, because look, George, people come to us as whistleblowers when there's nothing to do about UAP. That's another thing that we got to deal with is they just want to like report a crime with inside. And they're like, what do we do about it? So we want people to have that courage and that ability to know that they can come to us.

We're going to protect them even if they don't protect themselves, which has been the case. There's never been a misstep yet. Humans make mistakes. But I hope and I don't think, I hope we won't. And I don't think we will. So with that said, let's get into the nitty nitty. riddy here. One of the things that I was reading online, let me just make sure I got it. Oh yeah. One of the things that really struck people, and it's good that struck them, but they really need

to understand it. Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick came out with some, you know, a statement that it never happened. This kid must be illiterate. He was briefing, who is now Marco Rubio. What is his current role in government? Secretary of State. Secretary of State, yeah. He was briefing him. It was a known thing about the legacy UFO programs and that is when Matthew Brown says he realized that the deception from Arrow and from our government was

even to congressional members and gang of eight and people that had the right for oversight and knowledge. Man, that was a powerful part. So if people really understand it, Matthew Brown, in the position where he was, was able to read the transcripts of a briefing

that Dr. Sean Kirk Packard gave to, there are a few people in the room, but one of those people was Markerubio. So we should ask Marker Rubio what it is that happened that day in that room. Now, those transcripts, if accurate, show the intentional deception about the legacy UAP program, although it was acknowledged that it exists. Marco Rubio has this crazy statement where he's like, so you mean the executive branch been running this like silently or behind without oversight for 60 years, something like that?

I'm paraphrasing. Wow, what a moment. And I'm really glad that people picked up on that because I don't give a shit what Dr. Capadricks says. He's a known liar. I would like to hear from Representative Rubio. I'd like to hear what he thinks about that. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th,

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I think it's going to take some time for people to connect the dots, but we were sharing some statements that were made in public by Dr. Hale Putoff, who was there at NIDS with A-Tip, and he had confided at the Sall, conference last year, that he was part of a program, an invitation with a bunch of big brain yaks, to evaluate UFO disclosure. And of course, Hal has spent more than half his life working on this, trying to understand these mysteries, and goes into this gathering thinking, yeah, let's get this on. It happened during the first Bush administration. And we learned, not from Hal,

but we learned from other people that this was conducted under the NSC, the National Security Council. So over there in the White House, under the president, not part of the Defense Department, it's separate. Sort of what Matt is telling us the structure for Immaculate Constellation was. They had something separate over there. They considered the pluses and minuses of disclosure, of transparency, about UFO crashes. That was a central thesis. And in the end, these people who are generally pro-dose, disclosure decided the negatives outweigh the positive. So, you know, that's a really interesting

part of it. But him, Hal put off saying, this was an effort under the NSC, DOD didn't even know about it, kind of made me think about Matt and the story he was telling about the structure of immaculate constellation. Absolutely. I think there will be clarity on that more later. But I think what, the point that you're raising is that there are USAPs or unadolaged special access programs in every branch of our military, every branch of our intelligence agency, every branch of our government. So it is quite possible that this USAP, although misfiled, where it was, was not under DOD, that DOD was just kind of working the contract in a way or working the details of it. I want to get more information on that, and I hope that more of that does come out.

Let's just go through a few more things. Exposure versus personal conclusions. if you watched the three-part series, especially the last part with Matthew Brown, you're going to see that, George, we made sure I verbally talked about what's the difference between exposure of what you directly know and saw versus your personal conclusions. And I think Matt's a really eloquent guy when he talks. He's so thoughtful, really intelligent. And so he did give his personal understanding, which is an informed opinion, because it's

based upon a multi-year investigation that he did internally. So I think we should put some weight on it. But people are putting that out. Like he made a final statement that included the word God. Oh my gosh, did people flip the lid? I get that. It's cool. But we had already separated what is your personal opinion compared to what is it you saw,

touch, no, that kind of thing. But I do think it's really cool. There's no editing there. I want people to see everything. Matthew Brown is not a religious fanatic. you know, he's not, you know, anything like that. It's just that I think when you ask people to talk openly and they do, that is his opinion. And I thought it was so cool.

So I just wanted to kind of highlight that. That's a clip that kind of went viral and went around everywhere. And he's talking from his heart for himself on that. It's not like he read in documents, oh, by the way, God is real. Let me tell you where we're weird. You know, I just people think so crazy. That totally came across for anybody who paid attention to what was actually on the screen, obviously. The other thing that's come up a bunch on social media and people who've reached out to me

is the idea that it's a war game scenario. It was just a fictional scenario. It's like zombie, a zombie invasion that they've used in other things. That must be what he saw and what he read, and he just naively misinterpreted it. We asked about that right off the bat. I mean, that was both of our thought. Could he have misinterpreted what he was reading, a fictional scenario made up for the purpose of those war games? How do you respond to that? Well, I think Matthew responded to that great. If you actually watch the episode, you can see why. He said, we'd never be talking if it was just that.

That went through his own mind to make sure. Now, of course, over the last year plus, you and I have gone into that talk with people who were responsible for some of those war games. And the whole thing is that is not what the document was. The document was not a war game. The Immaculate Constellation was not a war game for that. It was part of or a piece of paper in there. that dealt with, you know, ideas of what war games could look like. But that's not what Immaculate Constellation was.

That program was also, by the way, it was known to us through various means before. There's nine different programs that are in the legacy program. It's an umbrella. There's other names below them. You can take that to the bank. That's been really well verified at this point. But I think, look, people are going to use that idea that what he was exposed to was simply like a fictionalized war game as a way to discredit his

initial accidental spillage. But you have to read the first sentence of what we submitted to congressional record to understand that it was a multi-year investigation. That was just the fuse, the ignition point, those 12 or 15 pages, whatever it was, of the actual Immaculate Constellation briefing, which was misfiled on a shared server as a USAP. And that's why he raised the alert after he got training about it. Matthew Brown wrote the Immaculate Constellation Field Report,

which is what was submitted on the congressional record after two and a half months of work to get vetted and verified and submitted on congressional record. Do they create program names and actual programs for war games? I would have my own guess about how that works. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. So you always look at like future tech,

especially with the Shriver War Games, you look at future tech, and you use real world examples and try to bring it in and say, how do we expedite this? It's kind of like what Auseppe did, you know, looking at the future tech in like 50 years, but we know people who were involved in that, and that was not part of that war game scenario for 2018. So it was just kind of like something that debunkers are going to use to try to create doubt. But again, remember, the Immaculate Constellation was just a starting point for Matthew Brown. If you actually read his submission to Congress, you're going to see there's numerous parts that there's gaps in there and that his investigation went way far beyond just what he initially saw, including his description of videos of UAP designated by our Department of Defense that you and I had previously been exposed to.

So we knew he wasn't talking out the side of his mouth. We knew that some of what he said we immediately knew was correct information. You know, a lot of what I've been getting over the past few weeks from ex-spooks, government people, people who have worked on the inside who are not quite sure what to make of what Matt is saying. The question they ask me over and over is, what else has he got? What has he got as backup? Is there anything he's got that will support his story beyond what has been made public? Yes.

Here's my answer to that. He's a smart young man who's had a lot of time. to think about this, I'd be really worried about what else he might have in his back pocket. I don't know what that is, but I suspect that we're going to hear more related to this. I suspect that he has already given in exquisite detail, everything that needs to be known behind closed doors to people within the architecture of government that asked for and needed to know and said, we'll protect whistleblowers. I suspect he's already given it and the protections weren't there. And I also know there are things we're not saying that have occurred to him that

propelled him to come forward because of the threats that he was facing. And it's not a new story. It is not a new story. That is something that we see all the way back to the day in Lazar when you were dealing with him. So now that he's forward, I think he's most protected because if anybody messes with him, the whole world is now watching. He also knows what we know is the kinds of things that are bubbling just under the surface that he's going to have to deal with or he's going to be hit with soon. Sneaky stuff, insiders who aren't happy that he's gone public. And I think that they want to discourage other people from going public. We think that they're going to be unsuccessful in those efforts to intimidate other people that we're aware of

who are on the verge of following Matt's advice to step up or get to. out of the way. Yeah. In fact, we've already recorded with people, so it's coming out no matter what, easy way, hard way. We're going to do it our way. A couple other little things. People ask, did he lose his job because of this disclosure to you guys? No, he did not lose his job because of this disclosure to us. He had a great career and his contract was up with that one and he decided it's time to push the trigger, pull the, you know, pull the trigger, push the button. So just to answer that directly, no, he did not lose his job because of this disclosure. In fact, the repercussions already on the inside, we're looming over him before we ever push the button for this public

interview or for this interview to be public. He did say something so interesting that I'm glad people picked up on. Matthew Brown said, we do have freedom of speech. We do not have freedom of inquiry. What do you think he meant by that, George? Because I really liked when he said that. Well, it goes to the heart of freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want, but there are always consequences.

You know, you ask the wrong questions of the wrong people. There are consequences for that when people can consider it stepping over the line. And I think that's what he's going through right now, is he has spoken his piece in public with us. Maybe he'll do more of it in the future, I don't know. But he knows there are going to be consequences for him as he moves forward in his life. Can all of our audience hear that George Knapp has somehow smuggled a pen with a clicker on it and he is clicking it. Oh my gosh. I thought I confiscated all of your

pens that had clickers. All right. I'm moving over to this marker. It doesn't have a clicker. It's okay. It's great, man. It's so perfect for you. It's on brand. So listen, we did not report on Immaculate Constellation based on single source info. I want people to understand that. There is a army of people that will come forward on on a number of things, including probably Immaculate Constellation, I hope, one day. But there are other things that will be revealed as more whistleblowers come forward and I'm really glad people are.

Matt also said something in his interview about a breakaway group. You know, where did he get this information? Was it from like books or that kind of thing? So again, you have to understand, we separated where he's talking about things that he's seen himself compared to things that he believes to be true based on

informed opinion. I think people misunderstood that and it'll be best if Matthew speaks for himself in the future. But the idea, I think, was simply this. If these aren't extraterrestrial, if these aren't extra-dimensional, if these aren't some non-human intelligence, then we are living in a world where there is a group that has science and technology and information that is far removed from the ability of the general population to access that information in science. Now, look, we go back, we heard this from Lazar. That was his big right, is that this is like stopping the scientific community from moving forward because there are even equations that are being classified.

And that shouldn't be a surprise to people. You know, we don't teach people how to make atom bombs if you look at the nuclear programs. That's what he was saying at that time that if it's not NHI, and I believe this to be correct. He was saying that if it's not NIH, then we are living in a world where certain people don't have access to fundamental information. You can call that a breakaway society or group or civilization. So I just want to clarify that. I think it was really clear if you watched the episode, but if not, hopefully I just clarified it for you. Yeah, I mean, that idea has been around a long time, even in and out of the context of UFOs and UAP, something like Atlantis that was an advanced civilization a long time ago that was basically destroyed, but a, and version of it somehow continued to exist outside of mainstream humanity.

The idea that Richard Dolan has explored that possibility. And the idea that Nazis, some of those Nazi scientists escape, went to Antarctica or something, built something that does not interact with the rest of, the world. That idea has been around long time. Mainstream scientists are now looking at the prospect that Earth is so many billions of years old. There is enough time in there for a species to evolve, have a civilization, and then evolve to a point where they're not like us. And then we come along later, but they don't interact with us in an everyday, absolute way. I think it's an intriguing idea. I don't know that I necessarily agree with it, but you have to to put it in the mix of possibilities. Right. So let me ask you this, George. I want to get, I kind of ask

people on X to give some public questions, and I want to try to answer some of those questions. I can't get to every single one. But let me ask them to you, George. I think some of them are specifically for you. And maybe we have the answer. Maybe we don't. Rapid Fire. Here we go. Who is Arrow really serving, George? Higher ups in the Pentagon who don't want this stuff. to be taken seriously. It's an intelligence operation gathering information about whistleblowers, witnesses to find out who they are and what they know and to muzzle them. That's my opinion. Okay. And I'd say that without trying to disparage the current guy, Kozlowski, I think he's been fairly honest within limits of what he can say, you know?

Absolutely. So next question, this is specifically for you. This is from Bob Fiddy Fidman, at Fidman, and he says to George, question, is Skinwalker Ranch a hotspot for paranormal activity, including UAP sightings, or a cover for secretive military experiments? It is a hotspot, a legitimate hotspot. I mean, maybe it's both to some degree. I don't believe that to be the case, because the activity in that basin has existed as long as humans have lived there, a couple of hundred years. I mean, you know, if you read the accounts of the Spanish explorers who came through there,

they saw some weird stuff. It is not just that ranch. It's the entire basin. The 60s, 70s, 80s, it's been going on a very long time all over the place in so many different forms. I can't imagine what secret military program would be pulling some of this stuff off, sneaking into the bathroom, unlocking the door, and taking the rancher's wife's hairbrushes. out and putting in in the freezer, you know, moving the frying pans around, taking all the groceries and putting them back in the grocery bags as she goes out of the room. Who's doing this stuff? Carving

up cows, dogs, cats, creating monsters, holes in the sky? What military program is doing that? I think it's a preposterous idea that the military is doing it, although I think it is very likely that the military has been is doing surveillance of what's going on there. So I got another question from, I think, Alien Wisconsin, which is at APCCC underscore UK. Do you think the USA crash retrieval program extends worldwide? Do you think U.S. bases abroad have retrieval units ready to respond? Are there agreements with other countries to do this? or is it just grab and run?

I think it is worldwide. We have a worldwide presence. We are a global force. Navy and Army and Marines and Air Force. We're all over the place. And so we have assets everywhere. We have agreements with other countries. I think a perfect example is Brazil. You know, I did that Netflix series, Investigation Alien. James Fox had this great documentary that he produced as well about things that happened in Brazil. and suddenly, boom, Americans are on the scene. Gathering files, gathering materials, maybe crash craft. Jeremy, you and I have reported on the Five Eyes Nations.

They talk about this stuff. We now know that Japan is being included in some of those conversations. There are agreements, and let's face it, the U.S. has a great deal of influence around the world, especially with our allies, or I guess maybe former allies, and I think they take their cue from us about how to handle this issue and what to do with materials that might come into their possession. Okay, I've got five questions. We're just going to do five more. Let's see here. Dr. Dan at ANX Whisperer. He asks, Matthew Brown says the DOD cleared what he shared. So where's the threat coming from? Is another agency upset about the leak? Or is this one of those cases where approved

doesn't mean protected? I think you should probably answer that one, Jeremy. My answer would be, yes, DoD is upset and there are other agencies that are also upset, but you should probably handle that one. Sure. So, yeah, Matthew Brown got clearance. It's kind of like a pre-pub. It's to make sure you can talk about it publicly through the Department of State. Department of State gave him like a one word, basically answer, like, or sorry, three-word answer. You may proceed. And he was like, oh, shit. Like, what does that mean? That does not give me confidence. So it's funny because then Susan Go can go and say, oh, the DOD this, the DOD that. It was State Department, and the program itself, IMCON was not through the DOD, although DOD might have handled it. So where are the threats coming from? You know, that is something that George and I take very seriously. This is not one of those cases where you can take lightly.

So yeah, approved by State Department does not mean that he has whistleblower protections. And we were fighting internally to get him proper whistleblower protections. So that threat to Matthew Brown comes in many, many forms that are very tangible and documented. And I don't think it's important to put that out now, but it is not just, you know, okay once you get a kind of clearance from the Department of State. And one of the reasons why we decided to go forward and why Matthew agreed is because of the pressures that was put on him. And at one point, that's his story to tell, not mine. Next question. It was from Kyle W. at UNSTBL research.

Besides David Grush, are either of you aware of other evidence that supports the fact that there have been agreements with NHI? I'll just do the quick answer. Yes, I'm aware, other than through David Grush, that this is something that has been said and reported internally and likely documented internally. George, how would you answer that question? I would answer it almost the same way. I'm aware of those stories and reports and claims over several decades. I've never been able to substantiate in a way that I could report it as a news story. Gabe the Babe, thanks Gabe at Gabe underscore trust.

Propose the phenomenon is capable of telepathic manipulation and has superior technology. How would you conquer our current world? world if you were them. Well, maybe the way they're doing it. Stay out of sight. We get brief glimpses, influence events on a global scale at a very subtle way to get what you want. I mean, we don't know what their objective is.

We don't know what the time scale is. I mean, it seems like they've been around a long time to us, but we live, you know, 75, 80 years, and then we're gone. We don't know how long they live, how long they've been here, what the plan is. So maybe it's going just perfectly fine. according to them. You know, trying to figure out the motives of a non-human intelligence, something that's far in advance of us, is, you know, like us trying to think, what's that pigeon thinking right now? You know, what's he planning for tonight? What, you know, it's, it's hopeless.

Yeah, acclimation can be infiltration. You know, I do understand that. There's a great book called Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clark. I've said it before on this show. And, man, it's a really amazing accliction. process to a non-human intelligence, at least the first half is. And then it gets into some weird territory that's getting all the buzz right now. I think people should read that book again, childhoods, and it's super interesting. All right. Last two questions. Decentralized Savage asks, which is great.

I think it's at Dirty RotoFX. Jeez, that's a band name there. That's a band name. He asks, and it's a great question. How can the average UAP enthusiast determine who, who's being genuine in this space for real, you know, for real disclosure, and who is part of a grift or disinfo program?

How can the average person help determine that, George? Man, it's tough. I mean, it's really tough. There is a learning curve in this. I remember when I jumped into it, Jeremy, we talked about it. I've said it before, you know, you go into the field and it doesn't take you long to realize, geez, this is a mess. You know, I was cocky enough to think,

all right, I need six months, I'll get this all sorted out. Well, you know, that was that was ridiculous. I haven't sorted it out now. The problem is there's so much information, counterinformation, skullduggery, false stories, bogus information, grifting, scams, counterintelligence from other nations, counterintelligence from them, whoever they are. It's difficult to figure out what's real and what is it. You know, you have to follow people for a while, get a sense of whether they are trying to be honest. honest, when they admit they've made mistakes or they explain where information came from and how credible it is, who don't make grandiose claims, that they're the only ones who know what the truth is, that they are responsible for giving information to the government,

beware of cults, you know, beware of people who are only in it to make dough and who don't do the hard work. You know, it's hit or miss. You got to do trial and error to figure out who to believe. I'm not saying they have to believe us. You can make up your own mind. There's a lot of people who hate our guts, Jeremy, but we try to do a good job. We're honest when we're when we come up short and we're just trying to try to get to the bottom of it. I'm not sure we ever will. I'm not convinced we ever will, not only us, but humanity. This is, I think this quest is more about the journey than the destination. What we learn along the way, what it teaches us about us.

Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox Wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last ends June 30th, terms at AKA.m.m.m.m. My simple advice to somebody who asked that question is to always watch the long form. And the reason I say that is because I saw how when I talked about

that 2027 date that I heard a bunch of people talking about, and by the way, it's 2027 to 2036, depending on who you ask, what I called bullshit on that. It was funny how they, cut the footage of me saying that, make it sound like I'm saying there's a doomsday coming. I was saying, be careful. People are already spreading this information, and I think it's horseshit. It's just a personal opinion,

but it's an informed personal opinion. I know where it's coming from. So my point was you have to watch the full clip, not a clip, you have to watch the full interview to really understand what I was saying. So if you're trying to determine that as a UFO enthusiast,

as this gentleman asked, I would say, always go to the source material, watch it in full. Like I've noticed a lot more people have watched episode one of the Matthew Brown interview and less people have watched episode three. But you've got to watch the whole thing to form your own opinion. That would be my only advice. Now this last question, George, this has got to be for you.

So it's Sims at Sims Studios LLC. How long have you been compromised by the CIA? Oh, since birth. I mean, I was born in a lab. They, you know, did some engineering, genetic engineering, and created me to pursue this. You can see how I'm cashing in on it. That's a vast palace that I've had. And, you know, they promised me that I will be uploaded to AI and will have it eternal life as a reward for all my work for CIA. Yeah, so it's basically forever. By way, Jeremy, I want to mention, I talked about the analysis of the jellyfish that had been done by somebody online. ProPixel video analysis and research at Billy Kri-Z-A-Z-K-R-Z-A-K, did a really good job on the jellyfish analysis. People should check that out, and we thank him for sharing that with us. Yeah, shout out to that guy, man. Well, we'll check it out.

So to just wrap up here, I want to ask you, well, first of all, I do want to say, about that last comment about, you know, you being controlled by the CIA or something, man, if people understood how many times we've had a boot on our neck, you know, asking us to spill and how we haven't, man, you know, if you can't see directly that we're doing everything we can on our own volition, that we're not beholden to anybody, then you just haven't been paying attention. But that's okay. You create the boogeyman if you want the boogeyman.

We are journalists. We are doing our best. And damn, we're going to keep pushing. So last question, George, not to out you, but I did see your picture. You're going to be at Contact in the Desert. Are you excited for that, man? Of course, yeah. I was there last year at the invitation of my friend and colleague, George Norey.

We're going to do that event again, where we ask answer questions from the audience. Not as tough as these questions from our listeners, Jeremy. But, yeah, I look forward to it. And I think I'm going to try to arm Russell you and get you there to, to help out. And we'll talk about disclosure, transparency, inner secrets, and see what we can dig up. Yeah, man, it's going to be really fun. So look forward to that. Thanks so much for spending time of me again, George. That was a good episode.

And all you weaponized listeners and watchers, thanks so much for support. And I'm just excited to be able to do these episodes. And thank you, McMinnville, for having us back. That was a lot of fun. Later. Later again.