WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - NHI Extracting Our Souls - Whitley Strieber on 70 Years Of Contact

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

Public interest in UFO and ET matters has never been higher than it is right now. The primary focus of those who are demanding full disclosure and transparency seems to be on rumored crash retrievals, alien bodies, and reverse engineering programs. But what about the hundreds of thousands of people worldwide (perhaps millions) who say they have had direct, face to face close encounters with non-human beings? Do those profound experiences represent the true heart of the NHI conundrum, rather than the focus on nuts and bolts craft and who might successfully replicate the tech before anyone else does it? Whitley Strieber was already a highly successful novelist when he wrote a non-fiction account of his ongoing relationship with a non-human intelligence, beings who appeared to him in multiple forms over multiple years. The book was Communion. It sold millions of copies and had a profound impact on the UFO and ET subjects. The success of the book essentially liberated huge numbers of people around the world from their personal paranoia about the reality of their ongoing encounters. Strieber's continuing relationship with "the Others" is still evolving. His latest book "Transformation 2026" represents a return to his roots, to the fuzzy memories of childhood encounters, and what they might mean for the future of humanity. In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy and George converse with a brilliant writer whose personal traumas have been liberating for untold millions who've been afraid to speak of or even acknowledge similar experiences. Transformation 2026 is available on Amazon https://a.co/d/0acs0j2n GOT A TIP? Leave a message for us at [phone] Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ •••  MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop.Fourthwall.com  MAIN : https://YouTube.com/@JeremyCorbell  CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WEAPONIZEDclips  MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here : BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA⁠⁠⁠⁠ HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A⁠⁠⁠⁠ PATIENT SEVENTEEN ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I think what they're looking for is to impede our abilities to get out of this, get out of here. Now, I don't know how dark you guys want to go here. People who have been mutilated like this. Whitley Streeper is a good friend of ours here at Weaponized. His books have been enjoyed by millions of people around the world. And, you know, starting with communion and then transformation, And Whitney, I really do think, and Jeremy agrees with me, you not only entertained people, but you sort of liberated millions of people around the world to whom people who've had similar experiences to yours, but who felt so guilty and crazy to ever acknowledge or admit it to anyone. You let them come out of the closet in a sense.

Many of them are still in it, I guess, but you made it feel okay that maybe they're not crazy after all. And I don't think you get enough credit for that. it gave everybody who came into contact with that book permission to think about this in a new way and some of them, a lot of them, most of them, didn't come out of the closet and that's fine. I mean, why should they? In fact, there's a lot of reasons why they shouldn't even now.

So that was amazing to me. When I put the book out, I thought it would be sort of a one-off. I was a fiction writer. And Anne and I thought, Anne said to me after I told her about it, which was a long time. Because I initially assumed I was insane or had a brain tumor or something. I mean, this was not on my, the top of my list is even a possibility. I was way past my childhood fascination with flying saucers and stuff. Spaceman is what we call them.

Although in that book now sort of forgotten called Report on Communion, a guy, this author, went around basically interviewing everybody I talked about in the book and everybody he could find who knew me in the those days in San Antonio. And I used to, my neighbors said to him that I would tell them that I was being taken by spacemen as a child. And of course, everyone thought it was just some childish pram, some childish nonsense and ignored it. But I think it actually happened now. And that's the whole theme there. This is what drew people into this story and made it, and the story became part of their lives. It opened up a story that had been hidden inside them all of their lives.

And it changed all of these people, and it changed the world. And it pissed off a lot of people who do not want that to happen. It's kind of a chicken and egg question. You wonder if you've had this as a lifetime of experiences. Did they pick you because of some quality they perceived, the communicator that you became later? Or did they pick you and then they helped alter your life so you would become that person and share that story? What do you think? Well, you know, George, I love you because you ask really interesting questions. That is a question that I have chewed on for years, and you're the first person to ever just put it into a few words like that on a show. Thank you. All right. Now, I promise you I'm going to answer this in less than four hours and 20 minutes.

Anyway, the, I think it started, probably with my uncle, Mickey, who was at Wright Field in at Air Material. He may or may not have been attached to it, but he was certainly involved when the Roswell material was brought to Wright Field. And they have a tendency

to go down family lines. And I think they probably went down my family line and came to me. in 1947. And what then happened was this. In 1952, the summer of 1952, I was visited, my family, parents were visited by some representatives of the U.S. Air Force.

And they were told, I was not there, and I did not get any direct information about this, and my mother and daddy never mentioned it. that there was a special program for highly intelligent children and that I was, they wanted me to be in it. Because my IQ tests are ridiculous. I don't know how to go into it, but because it set people off for various reasons. And it doesn't interest me much anyway.

I'm interested in my life, not in looking at it that way. Anyway, so I was brought into this program in July of 1952. and it turned out not to be an enhanced learning program. What it was was a program that was going to crack the cosmic egg by putting the child under incredible pressure. And what happened was that by October, I was going to this every Thursday night, as I recall, and by October my immune system collapsed,

and I was dying, literally dying, from stress. And they pulled me out of the program and where to end up? A little seven-year-old boy ends up not at his pediatrician's office but at Brook General Hospital with a bunch of soldiers

and doctors in isolation being pumped full of gamma globulin which is the only thing they could do in there is in hopes my immune system would come back and they, you know, they were so, they didn't have any idea how to handle a little child. These were military doctors during the Korean War, and, you know, they weren't handling little kids. So they would sometimes, I remember the needles as being like 15 feet long, but I think they weren't quite that long. But I was little, and they would, sometimes the needle would go through my arm, and the Kalaglivan would go down, like, dripping down my,

chest. So it was pretty hard for me, pretty hard. Now, why am I certain of this? Because this was buried in my mind. And it wasn't buried by some esoteric hypnosis process or anything. It was buried by the fact that no one ever talked about it. No one ever talked about it. The only evidence I have that my parents were even concerned about it was after my mama died, she had a box of memorabilia. In it was my second grade report card from school with all of those months absent due to illness, absent due to illness. And she had kept that all of those years because it reminded her of what I think she viewed as a grave mistake she and my dad had made. my closest friend in the world to this day was his parents were approached as well

and he is a very very highly respected man in his profession world famous and i'm not going to say his name for obvious reasons it would really confuse his huge constituency to know that his best friend was saucer Sam the rectal probe man, but it's true. Anyway, his parents said no because they were concerned about the way the program was described. But he was nine, I was seven, we're two years apart. He remembers it because he was in the living room when the request was made, when the two Air Force people came, and they knew the Air Force people. My parents, I'm sure they knew them too.

They were family friends. The military, where we lived, many military people lived right in the same neighborhood. I grew up with military people. Colonel Guy Hicks, who was the officer at when the commanding officer at the air base, where the Mantel incident occurred. You remember that where this guy goes up in a Mustang and ends up crashing? he was living right around the corner from us. After he was cashiered, he ends up on this little street with a number of other people who were in various states members of the paperclip German paperclip scientists and all kinds

of people like that. And Colonel Hicks, and Daddy used to send us to say that, why don't you go over it? We would get called to play with the Hicks children. And when we came back, Daddy would sometimes would say, how did you, what did you do? And did you have fun? And yes, and we did.

And he never said openly, did you talk about anything. But if we had said, we talked about flying saucers with Colonel Hicks or something like that, I have a feeling Colonel Hicks would have disappeared

just like some of these scientists there. So, because Daddy was in this. And so was his brink. And that's why I had all started, George, a long answer to a short question, but it's a good question. As to, I think, my intelligence, which is part of me, and I don't, for some reason, people feel competitive about intelligence these days. And, you know, everyone wants to be the smartest person in the room. And, you know, it's boring.

I don't care one way or another. I don't even feel. I like people and I like all kinds of people. I don't have to be. I'm not interested in intelligence exclusivity. I think of MENSA is sort of a joke. So, end of story. I'm just smart enough to know I'm never the smartest person in the room.

That's why I'll leave it. Jeremy, jump into here. Hey, Whitley. I'm good to see you, man. I'm really kind of excited. I was reading through your new book, you know, we are comfortable right now with the idea of flying saucers, the idea of these craft, right, that are visiting humanity or somehow, you know, persistent in our world. We're kind of in a new place now. But kind of when you came forward, it was super taboo to say that some of these craft probably have pilots.

They have beings, for a lack of a better term, associated with piloting these craft or, being part of it. And the world is still not caught up yet. So what you say, you know, a lot of people just immediately go to skepticism. They're okay with flying saucers now, but they're not okay with beings. But that is the core of your personal experience is that you say it's not purely extraterrestrial. It's not purely physical. It's not hallucination. It's somewhere in between. But can you kind of tell us, you know, what that's like to know, rather than, you know, think that these craft do have occupants and that you've been directly contacted by them. You know, I wonder why people are so surprised by that. I mean, of course they have occupants.

And thank God, they're interested in us. Because one of the first things that was supposedly ever said, reported by General Twang's son, was that one of these beings had said to him, the one that was alive at right field said to him, we're not interested in humanity. And I thought to myself, when I read that, aha, the first thing they ever said to us was also the first lie they ever told to us. But not the last, believe me. In any case, I got, when I first had this experience, the first flying saucer I ever saw was, from the inside, apparently. So, you know, these beings were,

they were more real to me than UFOs when this happened to me. And I didn't not know where I had was or what they were. And I still wouldn't say that I know what they are. But, you know, non-human intelligence, NHA is a good description of them.

They're not from here. That I'm pretty sure of. because I was fortunate in over the years, I had enough direct contact experiences with them to be able to observe them fairly carefully. Because, you know, these experiences lasted 20, 30 seconds, maybe at most, two minutes. But there were numerous numbers of them,

and I knew how to keep them intact in my memory. Then I see this document on Reddit put out by a biologist who claims that he was at Fort Detrick, which I had heard some of the body's word Fort Debtrick years ago. And he had done autopsies. And so I read the document and I thought, my God, the first thing in this document, the first words in it are something I saw with my own eyes happening. but that I have never written about, nobody knows about it. And I told Bud Hopkins about it. He said to me, oh, don't tell anyone about that.

Really, that'll make you seem insane. I thought to myself then, make me seem insane. Come on. I'm already in that box, deep in that box, and I'm not getting out anyway. But I never told anyone because it was too weird. It's about the way they evacuate waste. and it comes out through the pores on their skin. And I saw them in my front yard

wiping this stuff off of their arms. And I could smell it. And, you know, then this guy is describing this whole process exactly. So I went through the whole document in the fourth mind, literally line by line, and compared what he was saying with what I had observed over the years. Right.

So they are something physical. They are not from here for the simple reason. If he's right and they have a quadruospheric brain, four lobes on their brain, then absolutely they are not from Earth. Everything on this planet, every animal on Earth is hemispheric brain. Therefore, they are evolved in a different evolution. track than we are on. Simple as that.

I guess it depends on which they you're talking about. I look back at communion today, and even in communion, you had a list of the possibilities. I mean, you had a good idea. You'd have up close and personal experiences with a variety of beings and what they look like. But you wrote you and them, there are a bunch of different possibilities, E.T.'s, interdimensional's, And you're over the years, different books and different thought processes. You've thought different ways about it. Yeah.

The dead get mixed in with it. So where are you now? They're not from here, or at least as far as we know, could they be manufactured, biological robots? Could they be a combination of all the above? Well, I think the small ones that are about three feet tall are manufactured. But they are highly intelligent at the same time. And, you know, looking at them is like looking at a machine that's smarter than you are, a bug that's smarter than you are.

It's very weird. The taller ones have personality. I don't think they have, I think one of the reasons they're having so much trouble handling us, by the way, is that they have individual personalities to an extent, but they basically have a single mind because they're very fluently telepathic and they're in contact. And you can see they move, they function very slowly when you're with them in the sense of, you know, they're obviously kind of getting signals about what the decision making process isn't instantaneous. Let me put it that way. And so in a sense, they're one person, right?

They must be. But we are billions of people. And I think we are much faster. I think we're catching up with them, lickety split technologically, and they know it. And we're going to go flying out there like a bunch of mushroom spores, an unstoppable mass of completely intact individual beings, each of which is at least 50 or 60% as powerful intellectually as they are. And I'm sure if I'm right about that, they're scared of us. I know they are scared of me because they're scared to death of me. In fact, last summer someone was working on a film with me got abducted. And this is one of the fun things about working with me is that people do get abducted when that happens.

and she gets abducted. And the situation is this. The first night, she hears walking, shuffling footsteps on her roof. She calls me, and I go rushing over there, and I said, look, they're here. They're looking at you. And it's possible they're going to come in the house very soon. And she says, well, what do you mean? I said, well, you know, you live here.

She lives up in the Hollywood Hills in a beautiful place that's completely isolated and has a whole big sky. You can see all the way from the mountains to Griffith Park from her front room. So, you know, it's perfect for them. And I said, they're going to come see you. She said, well, what'll happen to me? I said, they're not going to do anything to you that prevents you from working on this project. So the next night, she's, here's the footsteps again. She wakes up and she sees peering through a curtain into her bedroom, which opens out onto the huge view in the living room and the huge view.

One of the tall ones looking at her. And this is a whole person. This is not like the little short ones who were rushing back and forth snorting. because they're guards. They go, huh, like that, when they're guarding someone.

And they sound nervous. They used to show up at our house in Texas, and my aunt was there one time when I was working on a new world. And I was downstairs in the living room, and they were in the standing on the porch, big porch right outside, working telepathically on the book with me.

And on the sleeping porch upstairs, there was one of them shuffling along and saw my aunt was still awake because her bedroom was right there. And it says to her, why don't she sleep? And she says, Whitley, is that you?

She calls me from upstairs. I said, no, I don't know. What are you talking about? Well, somebody asked me whether or not I was asleep and that was really strange-sounding voice. waist and they're on the porch. And I thought, oh, holy moly. I said, well, maybe you try to go to sleep. And she just, she says, why, how? I said, look, just leave it be. It's nothing important.

But she'd seen them before. And I knew it was next morning I said, you know, she said, no, I'm not scared. It's fine. That afternoon, she had a heart attack. And fortunately, our cardiologist lived down the road, his country house is down the road. I called him and said, Chris, she's having a heart attack. You've got to get over here right away because I could feel it in her pulse. And he gets over there. He rushes her to a hospital, puts a pacemaker in her saves her life. So that's what this is. The lady in Hollywood Hills, after the being is looking at her, she's so scared. She says, oh, my God, to herself, if only it was dawn, whereupon a huge, light fills the place with light.

And the next thing she knows, something grabs her arm and pulls her up through the ceiling. You understand, a lot of people listening to this are thinking, oh, this is all completely impossible. But it is not. It's what it's going to be like for all of us. The more this spreads, the more it's going to be like this. and two and a half hours later, she finds herself lying on the floor of her bedroom in a heap, and dawn is coming. She has no idea what happened, missing time.

You know, there's a movement of late for people who have had experiences like you. They don't call them abductees anymore. They prefer the term experiencers, which is a softer, kinder, gentler way to put it. And people in these organizations have come to the conclusion that this is overall a positive experience. They think it is, you know, you wrote as far back as transformation about how it changes people, psychic abilities, abilities they never had before. And in that sense, it can be positive. It doesn't matter how that they're taken against their will, that, you know, there are invasive procedures that we all know about. They see it as a positive thing. And I wonder if it's sort of like

Stockholm syndrome where you start identifying with your abductors like, you know, Patty Hurst or something like that. Yeah, I worry about that too, because I've been there and done that. And, you know, but when I sat back a few years ago and just looked at my whole life experience, I thought to myself, am I going to come down on the fact, the idea this is positive or is it negative? when I saw the abductee movement turning into the experiencer movement basically. And I thought, what is it to you? In your real life, what is it? And the answer is it's too complicated to identify as either positive or negative,

and we constantly want to do that, to make it easy for us to understand and to grasp and pigeonhole it. It's the most complex experience the human species has ever faced. Without any question, it's way ahead, way ahead of everything we have done historically, the world wars, all of the different things that have happened to us in nature, the discoveries, the technological discoveries that have changed our world and our lives. The only thing that's going to even come close is AI, And it might be as big a deal as the coming of the visitors.

And then the two things are going to emerge into our societies at the same time. It's going to be really busy around here. Boy, anyway, it is not all positive by any means. It wasn't in my life, and it is not in my life all positive at all. It is not all negative either because I have learned from it. It has broken down in my life the barrier between the living and the dead. Wait a minute. Which, okay.

Yeah, there we go. It's mirror. She's still with me. That's why she's back there. I bear both rings because I am still involved with her in ways that are sometimes almost are provable in a mundane manner. So that breakthrough came because of my relationship with them at the same time. I know a lot of things about them.

I know a lot of things that they've done. And I suppose J.D. Vance knows some of those things too, because otherwise he would have no reason to call them demons. But they are a very complex presence, dangerous, wonderful, destructive, productive, we have to figure out how the hell to make this work for us. They're not going to help us do that. We have to do that ourselves. A new world if you can take it.

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I'm just curious. So kind of from all your experiences, do you believe that the phenomenon is guiding human evolution in some way, or is it just? interacting it with it. Because you've said there's some fear on their side. It sounds really discombobulated. Like, is there a sense you get that there is some guidance for our human evolution, or are they just interacting with it? Well, that gets to the issue of genetic manipulation and social manipulation that results in genetic manipulation, which is also a possibility. because trauma can change people genetically, for example, and enough trauma is going to leave a scar in a whole civilization, a whole species.

Dean Radin has a fascinating paper out. It's really a prototype paper of the difference between the genetic mix of psychics, and ordinary people. And they found that psychics and ordinary people all have pretty much the same genes. But there's a subset of people mostly who are totally skeptical about all of this

who don't have a certain gene. And these are all people who generally came from Central Europe, whose families came from Central Europe, who were exposed to the massive persecution of everybody with any mystical meanings or thoughts during the Middle Ages for nearly a thousand years and were burned to death. And those people are different from the rest of us. Now that is social and cultural action causing genetic manipulation.

Now, did they, meaning whoever this is, in the big sense of the word, ever introduce genetic changes in us. We don't actually have the capability of determining that yet, whether there have been moments. There are plenty of people out there. You can go on the Internet and find all kinds of things about how they did this and they must have done that and genetic manipulation has occurred.

But it's very uncertain still. that technology or that that scientific capability is still very much in its infancy. Is it awesome? I don't read that. Lizar read that in briefings. He doesn't know if it's true. But, you know, he read that there was genetic manipulation of human beings, intervention, a number of times.

So if we take his story on face value, we don't know if they were trying to trick him or not, but we should, from a DNA perspective, be able to see, have there been manipulation in those genes? We can see it when we're looking at other animals. So I'm just curious if we're going to catch up soon. Well, then you, now you're getting into the Defense Department territory. Yeah, we probably can see that, but you try to look for that in the scientific community, and you're not going to get funded. In fact, you may be, you may be ejected entirely from your career.

And that is, you know, so that, yeah, it's certainly. possible. I don't know. Look, if you turn it around, we are the species that can go anywhere from wherever we are. I'm not talking about, I'm not settling on interplanetary or anything. I'm just saying we can go into any place we want. And we discover a planet, which has got an intelligent species on it, or a proto-intelligent species, someone's getting there. And we think to ourselves, if we play with that a little bit, we're going to be able to turn that into an highly intelligent species that is self-aware. We can confer consciousness on them.

Would we do it? The answer is you're damn right. Hell yeah, we wouldn't do it. So, yeah, it's highly likely that it's been done here. And it's no big deal. I mean, you know, people say, oh, that can't be true. I'm sorry. Why not?

We'd do it. It's a great idea. It's like directed panspermia, but it's additionally just bringing another biological entity up to, I mean, look, we took the genetics of the dire wolf, and there was missing DNA because it was so degraded. So we just went in there and we filled it in with some wolf DNA, and then we made these really beautiful, cute, dire wolf beings that are not 100% dire wolf because we had to inject some code. That's how they were made. We had to inject some code from wolves.

But we're already doing it. So I can only imagine that we would do it on a bigger scale for fun. We're going to do it to ourselves because believe me, you know, we talked about intelligence a little while ago and that's a big premium thing. We are going to, and if it's, it probably is already happening, we are going to alter people's genes, babies' genes in order to have them

come out the way the parents will want. Oh, it's already happening with CRISPR and all that. But the kind of interesting thing is like, so AI, with open AI as an example, they've throttled the biological data sets to make sure that people can't like create new viruses as weapons. So they're dumbing down the AI

so that when they're in public hands, we can't manipulate genetic, We can't manipulate biologics in the same way. So we're already protecting against it because it's a very real thing. We can figure out how to manipulate human DNA. Yeah, unfortunately, dumbing down AI is not going to stop anyone who really wants to do it. Right. And it's going to happen.

Signal is perfectly safe because it's encrypted, right? Yeah. No, there is a way to have private communication. but I'm not going to go into what it is. And it doesn't involve. Smoke signals? Tell me, I'm not. No, it's not signal.

It's not signal. I'll tell you off here. Smoke signals. No. Well, telepathy would work. Oh, shit. Because telepathy is very real. Kai Dickens has just finished her documentary.

I've seen the rough cut of it. Actually, it's the fine cut. And it is phenomenal. Phenomenal. She shows what this really is. among these extraordinary people who have always been told them. A few years ago, it was routine for the doctors to tell the parents, your child has no connection to the outside world.

Your child will never know you. Your child is basically just a block of flesh. And inside there was a glorious, angelic being who had full-range telepathy waiting to be heard. And there they are on Kai's documentary telling their stories. I've been in telepathic. Being with the visitors so much, they're total telepaths. They don't even have vocal cords.

They can make a noise, but they can't, like, talk or anything like that. but it's totally telepathic. And you're exposed to that enough, you get somewhat telepathic. So when I'm around these people who are fluently telepathic, I'm telepathic too. But not normally. I mean, I wish I could telepathically communicate with people, but I can't. I mean, you know, unless they are telepaths, then I can, yeah. Whitley, can you tell us about this new book, where it lands, you don't have to tell us all

of how you get there, where it lands, and do it in the context, too, of disclosure. Disclosure is something that Jeremy and I hear every day. The president says he's going to release the files. The vice president says he's going to get to the bottom of it, and by the way, it's demons. The Office of Director of National Intelligence conducted its own little secret study. Organizations are getting together within the government and sharing information. The public has expectations, and what they really want is, where are the saucers and where are the bodies? The idea that the president's going to step out and make an announcement of disclosure seems pretty far-fetched to me, especially in light of what you have explored.

I mean, you could say, hey, we've got some saucers. We don't know where they're from, why they're here. But I don't see the president saying, yeah, by the way, they abduct us. They conduct all kinds of experiments. We don't know who they are, why they're from, or what they're doing here, what the long-range plan is. You could never announce that. You could never announce that. Well, that's the thing.

You know, the only thing they can do with the abductions is say they didn't happen. And there's been an FBI investigation of this going on now for a few years. And I've always been concerned about it. It's been very secret. And it may not even be going on anymore. I don't know. It was going on three years ago, though that I do know. And I thought to myself at the time, they know a lot of things because I know some of the things they know.

and they're not pretty at all. But an investigation like that would be, would it be to tell the truth or would it be to say, well, we've been investigating this. The FBI has been investigating this for three, four years, and we've concluded that the abductions never happened. That, I think, would be a possibility because lying is part of the game with this stuff.

anyway we're going to be in a let's go back two years I was thinking about writing a new book it was called reunion and I have this implant in my left ear which is a communications device that I've learned to use I've talked about it on your show

before and it I was by three o'clock or so in the morning it is at its best because the brain is open to that kind of thing at that hour. There's a famous type of yoga, a thing in yoga called Brahmaertha time, which is an hour and a half before sunrise. The brain is most open to outside influences at that time. And that's when I do this work.

So I wasn't getting anything about reunion. I have the idea I would put it forth. And usually there'll be a kind of, conversation. It's not downloads because I'm far too egotistical to handle. I can't handle some some disembodied presence giving me downloads from the beyond. They got to communicate, converse with me or I'm not interested. So anyway, the, then suddenly there comes this thing about the book transformation. And I thought, what I? Yeah, I remember it. And it developed. And it developed. over about two weeks, the conversation,

whoever's on the other side of this thing wants transformation to be updated. And I think to myself, why? This is, I'm not in the disclosure space at all at that point. Because then I know that the book is about what it's actually like for a family to have this experience of interaction with the graves in a life basis. Because they would come up to the house all the time. Anne was good, she would invite people up there,

and we'd have these parties, and the visitors would show up late at night. A lot of these people, like Raven Dana is still very much alive, and she still talks in great detail about her experience there with them. And, yeah, it was incredible. It was just... And then the children had it.

son had the it was just an extraordinary period that lasted from the time in 1986 when I started going out in the woods to say to them I'm I'm ready for more because as Ann said you go out in the woods by yourself I'm not going out there until for years they would literally come up to the house and engage with us in all kinds of different ways and that's what the book's about Now, fast forward to now, I've updated the book, and it turns out that we're right at the edge of some kind of disclosure, maybe even a presidential announcement of some sort, and the book is there to help people who might have these beings come into their lives, because it shows how we did it, how we handled it, how it. what the experience was for us. It's amazing.

The timing is not my timing. I would like to say, well, I'm the Mr. Guru, and I knew all along. No, sir. I'm just trying my best to keep the surfboard going. There are some spooky unsettling aspects of this, and I can't imagine anyone ever admitting.

Jeremy, you were interested in the missing people. part of it. I am. Yeah, I just wanted to get Whitley's perspective on that because we've texted a little bit about it. And it's just kind of one of those, you know, I don't have a lot of information on that, but there's a lot of speculation. So I just wanted to kind of hear Whitley's, you know, often unique perspective on this kind of thing. What do you think about these missing scientists and the general McCaslin? We know that with the UFO thing, there's rumors of people, you know, being stopped, you know, or disappearing. So I'd just love to hear kind of your thoughts. Will they? Well, okay. Now, pardon me if I take a little time here. I've done two Dreamlands

on this. One with Micah Hanks of the debriefed talking about General Kasselin and then another one about Isinto Reza on just me. They're available on YouTube. They're about two or three weeks back at this point. There's a wonderful one, by the way, on the lady, which Chris Brett's, I guess, it's the same lady that Chris Brilatso sees this week on Dreamland. This woman from England has had the most extraordinary and complete experience of the lady

I've ever heard. And it's really, really beautiful. Anyway, to the scientists, as things look now, it's possible that General McCaslin ended his own life because he was having he knew he was

in a, he thought He was in a state of Alzheimer's or something, early Alzheimer's or something. And I can't blame him. I probably do the same thing. But there's also the other side of this. And that is the weirdness of leaving stuff behind. And why would he conceal this from his own wife that he just sort of disappears, leaving her to wonder for the rest of her life, what happened to my husband?

That's incredibly cruel. And from all I know of him, and I've rushed past his name a few times in my life, he's not a cruel man. He was a genius, actually. They don't say that, but he was incredibly brilliant. And that's why he ended up doing the hardest job in the Air Force, which is managing this crazy stuff. Right. Now, Jacinto Reza's case is almost certainly an understanding. And the reason is simple. Those mountains up there, that trail, first of all, it's, I'm 80 years old and I'm not going up that trail again anytime soon. I'm in great shape, but I'm not in great shape to hike that trail at 6,000 feet, but I do know the trail. And that it's remotely possible that she was pushed over the edge by somebody.

And then the body was collected and taken away from down below. Now, that would be really hard to do because when you look over the edge there, it is a total, I mean, there's just, that would be a tremendous challenge, maybe impossible. But her cap was found on the way down. So, however, let's roll back. Two things that I can describe. One is, what is it like to be taken up by them? I remember it vividly. I was in the woods, surrounded by these beings, who were very affable.

I mean, they were wearing these round helmets with round eye holes and round mouth holes. and they were, I didn't, I wasn't scared of them. And the next thing I knew, it was exactly like going up in an elevator, only there was no elevator. I just went past the woods and there followed a period of wild confusion because that was when I was then restrained. And so you heard her cry out. And then they turn around and she's not. there anymore. People do not look up. Therefore, they did not occur to them to look up, I'm sure. But if they had looked up, they might have seen something very different. Or if they did look

up and did see something very different, that's going to be classified. So, she was working in an area which is very important to our efforts to back engineer these craft. Because the ultra-high-energy electrical electric fields that are involved require esoteric and extremely strong materials and that was her wheelhouse.

That was her wheelhouse. Now, if General McCaslin was abducted, he was retired since for 10 years, nearly And if he was abducted, it was because they would want to sift through his mind and find people that they would have abducted Jacinto. And then shortly thereafter, they abducted Casas, was her name, Melissa Casas, I believe. and she disappears the same way,

just gone out of the, into the air. And I think those are abductions. I don't see what else they could be. And they're looking, they're looking for something. And I think what they're looking for is to impede our abilities to get out of this, get out of fear.

So they're working against us in that way. I mean, some people think that we're being helped, you know, by these visitors to kind of learn technology and kind of evolve and grow, but you're saying it's the opposite in your perspective. Well, I think it's very complicated, and I'll tell you why.

This is going to kind of segue into the crop circle world. But okay, let's go there now. 2002, there a crop formation appears in a little town, a little place, it's not a town, I've been there called Crabwood in Wilcher. It consists of a face of a gray and some other things and a disc which turns out to have ASCII code in it. Now, there is no way this was made by us, not by the best artists who make things out in the

fields are used to when it was still. Why, though? Because I could imagine that being made by us. No, no, it's not possible. I'm sorry. Because the intricacy of the, let me put it this way. The face is made in the same way if you have something printed in a news, an image printed in a newspaper, it's actually made of tiny dots.

The face is made up of tiny places where the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the crop was wound together in incredibly intricate manner. And there are blown nodes all over the place. A blown node occurs when heat is applied to make the node bend. And we don't have, you would have had to blow each node tens of thousands of nodes on these bits of grass of crop in order to do that. And it would have taken you years. I mean, it's just impossible.

This happened overnight. Like, I've heard about this before. I've never seen them, but do you have, like, photographs of this particular crop circle showing the interwoven and the heated nodes? I have one.

Yeah. I've got them somewhere. From that crop circle, from that one? Probably. I've got a lot of them. I have to admit, I'd have to look back because I haven't.

But probably, I know there were blown nodes photographed for sure. And I think George is saying he's got an image. From that one, though, people can go. Yeah. But it's a, the thing that's important about it is what the, what the words were in the ASCII code, which were, beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. there's good out there. There was more, but that's the basic part of it.

To me, that means there's more than one group here. Someone is good, but they're out there. Someone is bearing false gifts, but they're in here, and they're not good. And you go to, you know, you've had many of the people on your show who are talking about the back engineering process. and I think that we were given just enough like the donation site that Tyler and

Gary Nolan go to and that Gary Nolan? Well, no. Tyler. I'm not supposed to say his name, although everybody knows it, but he gets all pissed off if I say it on the air, but other people say it all the time and he doesn't bat an eye.

So I'm not going to say his name. And Diana Pesolkla, who by the way, has a phenomenal book coming out. I read it. It's extraordinary. Yeah, cool. Anyway, these donations, they go all the way back to Roswell. My uncle and his team and General Exxon worked on the materials. and they've been working on these materials for years.

What was his name? The metallurgist who was, he talked to me extensively, and I'm blocking on his name right now. Stanton Friedman introduced him to me in 1986, and when I was just starting to write Communion, and he was working on the materials. then and said that they had a microscope, they had, they were welded at the molecular level, which has made, what made them so incredibly light and so incredibly strong.

So, are those the false gifts? Maybe so. But then these abductions start to happen of people who are involved with this stuff. people whose specific work could be like Centa Reza's specific work could be involved with us getting it right so the false gifts we may have figured out what was false about them and what wasn't

we might be getting somewhere in terms of making these things these bizarre hyper-dimensional objects that we call UFOs. What if some of these abductions, though, are just like our government keeping stuff on the DL. And, you know, because you're talking about abductions of these people, like they want to go in their minds and figure out who they talk with, but you don't need to take somebody completely for that. So I'm just wondering if, like, some of these abductions are theorized to be our government

keeping the program quiet, like even maybe crop circles. what if we had a weapon that you could shoot down into a field using bit mapping, just like a computer, and we could heat up these nodes from a space-based weapon and print an image into, you know, the crop circles. What if we're, it's some of the fuckery as us, Whitley? Well, that's what Jack Vallet says. But the problem with that is atmospheric diffusion is a big deal when you're talking about sending a beam down from space. you have to have an immensely powerful power plant up there and that beam is going to be visible for miles.

Right. Unless it's been around a long time. It's also been around a long time. Yeah. And these crop circles, they've been around, they were crop circles before we even had science back in the... I just wonder if there's biomimicry if we're creating something because maybe we could use like microwaves that are not visible to the human eye.

I'm just saying, maybe there's some biomimic... You know, that gets into a whole area. I'm not going to argue with you for a second because I think it's, I think, I think the jury is completely out and I'm much more interested in exploring questions than in getting into a debate

what I believe versus what you believe. I don't even care. I'm interested in the questions. And here's a fascinating question, and that is, is there a human element involved in there? that is directly connected to the non-human element

and is expressing itself into the world. Suddenly people are all talking about hybrids. And maybe there are people out there who do have these capabilities and are acting in this whole thing and are an additional presence here. And maybe the government is involved with them and maybe they are,

helping to control the expression of all this. Because let's get back to McCaslin for a second. Why would he be taken? He's been retired for all these years. Well, maybe he was planning to invoke the Whistleblower Act. If he was, that would be game over. Because of what he knew and his stature, it would be game over for the DOD.

If Trump says something, they're going to be able to control that. What Trump says will be something that they have approved of. But if General McCaslin ended up sitting in front of a congressional committee, it would be over. And the truth would then be known. Among other things that routinely, this material, all the records of this are moved over mostly to Lockheed Martin. and become privatized so that, you know, the government can safely, the Defense Department can

safely say, well, we didn't find a thing because they didn't because they've already given it away. So he would be a, that would be a huge danger, huge danger. Let me return to Jeremy's question about missing people, but broaden it a little bit. So we know about the scientists who disappeared. Our colleague, Dave Politis, has written several books about people missing. They go hiking in national forests. sometimes they're alone, sometimes they're with groups of people, and they just get plucked. I'm wondering if you have some thoughts about that.

Is that them? And in those instances, do you suppose that people, they're taken against their will, but do you suppose people are given a choice? Hey, you want to come with us? And if they say no, and they spit back out, or do they not have a choice in either being taken or taken for good? What do you think? Well, there was a case of a young man in Australia who was fascinated by UFOs and wanted to be taken. Valentich was his name, Nick Valentich, as I recall. And his plane disappeared under circumstances that suggested he probably was taken.

Now, did he get taken to another world and had a great time? idea. But I would be very, I wouldn't be very surprised if that's not what happened. I've been given the chance to go. And I didn't. I chose not to. And there was another person, a young teenager, who disappeared about five miles from my cabin within a couple of days of that moment in my life he's never been found so I think it's possible that people are just taken now I don't know how dark you guys want to go here on your show because we can go to well dark well okay then folks I'm so sorry but this this is all already in a book called the new a new world and no one even even rarely mentions even even even Even when the book was first being read, people sort of skipped over it because it was too hard to face. But remember, I wrote that book, as I said earlier, at the country house, with the Grays literally on the porch working with me telepathically.

So they knew everything that was in it, including this material. And this material is as follows. at some point in the mid-90s, a friend of a friend of mine ended up talking to a coroner who was working on some very bizarre cases in Brooklyn. These are people who have been mutilated like cattle.

These people were all and Jeremy freaks me out. Well, I don't blame you. It freaks everyone out. These people were all in the same state in the world. They were all homeless. They were taken from the streets of Brooklyn.

There were street people. They were then mutilated, then drowned in the ocean. And the bodies returned to, like rooftops and stuff near where they had been taken. Now, when I first read this story, or she told me about it, actually, I didn't read it. I said to her, well, I want some documentation. And when I got the documentation, it included a description of the autopsies of what they found, the damage they found, a lot of it.

And something told me immediately that it was true. And this is what it was. there is here just above the C1 vertebra, a spot that if the right frequency, electric frequency is applied there, you will feel what feel like clamps opening up and down your spine. There are the chakras, and they will open, and you will roll right out of your body in perfectly intact, a perfectly intact state. and all of these cases were the same.

Someone had busted into the spine right at that point and stuck something down into it to wreck the spine. In other words, they were extracting the soul like extracting an oyster from its shell. That's been done to me. But it's been done to me. And I have, it's, it was done by a, gentle application of that energy. And for me, it was a beautiful experience. Some of those

beautiful experiences I've had have been out-of-body experiences where I've gone on these missions that were incredibly cool, like converting one of the guys that was way up in the whole, not in the McCaslin line of it, but in another line of it, of getting him to convert and become serious about his moral life because you can't there's a certain level of this you can't really do this successfully unless you have a very examined moral life and you can't because then you get you get stuck in the in the flypaper of the dark side you can't get out of it so that happens and I think that probably happens to some of those people at David talks about I David we had after the

when Anne passed away I was very strung out and I had an argument with David and since then he's never talked to me again so I but I love him

and I think his work is wonderful so and yeah I don't think those people met a good end because I think there's somebody who wants souls

and can take them out of bodies and I think that it's an evil business but it's not monolithic do not folks go into this

it's all good or all bad. You've got to get beyond that. I said earlier, this is the most complex thing that's ever happened to the human species. There's good there too. Remember, there's good out there. But guess who has to bring the good in? We do. What about, okay, I have one more question, and you can take it away, Jeremy. Have you ever experienced a mantid type being? You've talked about the little grays and the tall grays. What about mantises? When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you.

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I'm not saying it physically happened at all. And there's a ladder leading up right in the middle of the bedroom to a hatch and the, and climbing down the ladder is a manned being. He's about five feet tall. He's not, he's not a huge. And he gets me to go up the ladder. And I understand that this is all, what I'm seeing is all that's left of the human experience on Earth, 1.5 billion years ago.

And it's a field full of tall grasses and some, some underneath the grasses, there's some broken stones, big stones that are kind of broken up. And that was my only experience with those beings, if that was an experience with that. But it was very cool, very fascinating. George, I've just been, you know, right now at the time of this recording,

we are for the first time since 1972, like orbiting human beings around the backside of the moon. We're going to go out for 55 minutes. There's going to be no communication. It's like if you've ever heard the audio from when we did that prior, it's a very tense moment. I know the Artemis folks, like Mike Gold and them, and they're pumped, man.

They're like, we were statistically not be able to fire these thrusters to go to the moon. They're like, this wasn't supposed to happen. This was a test mission. Yep. Boom. they fire these thrusters. They're going to go on the backside of the moon. They're going to loop around.

And then I got friends in the Navy that are actually on the ships that are going to go pick up the astronauts after. So I'm watching this really closely. But one thing that I'm interested in, Whitley, is that the camera systems that Artemis developed, designed, and put on the Artemis craft is specifically to look at the anomalies on the backside of the moon, because it's an area that we're, we, we, we, we, can't normally look at, like the ocean, we can go if we're really interested. But the backside of the moon, we haven't had a chance to do that with people since 72, allegedly. So my question

to you is this, do you think a mission like this with human beings going, you know, up around the anomalous moon, do you think that they're going to see anything or record anything from your experiences and understanding? Are there things on the backside of the moon? Are there things out there that these astronauts might engage with these visitors? There's a UFO guy called Peter Robbins who's made a practice of finding images that have been airbrushed of the moon and Mars

and images that haven't been airbrushed but appear to show anomalous stuff. And if NASA is being its usual self, anything they find like that is not going to be shown to the public. And the answer is, I think it's certainly an exciting, fun mission, and it's a joy to see them, us going back to the moon. And I would be very surprised if any anomalies that looked like they suggested the presence of non-human beings

were ever shown to the public, even if they find it. It's a different game now. It's a different game because the Artemis mission is private, aerospace. They're working with NASA, obviously, and a lot of that footage does have to be filtered through NASA, but they have their own cameras that don't require proprietary, you know, computers and stuff to analyze it. So the Artemis Mission will be getting footage right off the craft, including the cell phone footage of the astronauts themselves. So I think it's a different game now. It's not just held within NASA. Well, maybe so. It would be cool if they did find something

and we got to see it. That would be a big step. Do you think there's stuff out there on the moon and in space from your personal experiences? Well, certainly, I haven't been to the moon lately, so I can't answer that directly. You chill with the grays, man. I mean, come on, they've got to tell you something.

Well, I don't take me. I don't think they've ever taken me anywhere. I'm not sure I'd be willing to go anywhere with them. Sure. Maybe they, maybe I did go. once with them, but it was not, it didn't feel, it wasn't dangerous, I can't feel dangerous, but I think you just, they're so complicated and there's so many of them and there's all kinds of different agendas and conflicting agendas. You don't know, you can't, I mean, if, if I was

asked, will you go with us by Graz right now, I would say no, because I wouldn't be sure what their plan was. Now, that said, if Peter Robbins is right, we've got a lot of imagery from the moon and from Mars that has been being hidden. I guess I'm asking, is there activity out there with your understanding the cosmology of these visitors? Is it just centralized around Earth or is there any reason that we would have craft out in space and around the moon? Us? I don't... Visitors.

Well, I mean, yeah. They've got things that can go 50,000 feet in the 76th of a second, you'd think they probably could go to the moon fairly quickly. And Mars and, you know, that's actually not that fast in terms of going to another star. It take thousands of years, 1,300 years, I think, to go to the nearest star, even at that speed. But to go to, like Jupiter, it would take about four minutes. So they could be flying around all over this solar system, certainly. And, you know, who was that? Beatrice Villarillo published a paper in nature recently

that was attempted to be debunked by another scientist, Kevin Nuth, who's, unfortunately, his math didn't work out. And then there's another paper from another telescope saying that they're finding the same thing Beatrice did, which was unknown objects around Earth back in, that were being recorded by the Palomar telescope back in the 50s. So they are, they've been here a long time. They may be part of this.

And as we were talking about earlier, maybe they created us. Maybe we're, maybe we're a game. Maybe we're a toy. I hope that someone in UFO world is monitoring the various communications channels that Artemis II has, you know, because it seemed like a lot of things that we send up to the moon. According to astronauts, they've seen things. They've communicated that they've seen things. But the messages somehow get garbled or hidden or whatever.

Whitley, I have one more question. Just tell us about the book. What's the title? Where can people find it? It's out now, right? Yeah. The book is called Transformation 2026. And what it is is the transformation story from the 80s of what it's like for a regular family to have the grays in their life.

There's, I think, 31 witnesses mentioned in the book. So it's very grounded in that sense. And then I took every chapter and I updated it. So it's got all the latest stuff in it about brain function and how memory works and how to live with this. Because I think that probably a lot of the people who are experiencers and maybe others as well are going to be living with it, just like we did, at some point after or maybe despite disclosure, whether it happens or not. I think we're just going down that road. And you can get it at Amazon, primarily at Amazon. I think it's probably also available as an audiobook is available on Audible and on Apple books.

I read the book. There's no AI involved at all because my experience of AI is somebody knows I'm out there because I get some of those brilliant hallucinations you can ever imagine. I don't use it anymore for that reason. It started with ChatGPT and then I changed to Claude, and within six weeks, Claude was all hallucinations, too, so I just gave up. Well, I always love, you know, George introduced me to, you know, I think the first time I, George is telling me about you, he just looks at me and goes, you know, reality isn't what he used to be, Jeremy. Like, he said something funny like that. And, you know, I wasn't exposed to a lot of your work. It takes a lot of faith for people to say, I'm going to trust this guy and what he's saying, or I'm not going to. But, you know, the thing is, is we, we accept.

now UFOs are real, but it is the bigger leap to say, well, there's got to be occupants and they've been engaging humanity. But, you know, kind of what you've done by bringing all this forward and telling your experiences, I think it's been invaluable. It has clearly been invaluable to people. So thank you for everything you've done and how you put yourself out there on this topic. And it's always fascinating to hear your perspective, ma'am. Thank you very much for having me, guys. I enjoy it thoroughly.