WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - PART 3 : Immaculate Constellation : A Whistleblower Honors His Oath - Matthew Brown

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

UFO Whistleblower Matthew Brown has words of advice - and caution - for the public, for Congress, and for other potential whistleblowers. In the conclusion of his massive interview with WEAPONIZED, Brown reveals how public perceptions about UAP issues are carefully managed, how "fear, greed, and willful ignorance" are employed as weapons by those who keep the secrets, and why now is the time for other insiders to step forward and tell what they know. Brown authored the Immaculate Constellation report, that was submitted to Congress months ago, based on evidence uncovered during his tenure working within the United States national security enterprise. He shares details on the types of visual evidence collected by intelligence operatives and technologies, the UAP shapes observed on classified servers, how excessive secrecy is used to stifle honest inquiry by the public and Congress, and how disclosure might unfold in the future. WATCH PART 1 HERE : ⁠https://youtu.be/ZAxI-LDrDqA⁠ WATCH PART 2 HERE : ⁠⁠https://youtu.be/4n_bRtnIP14⁠⁠ WATCH PART 3 HERE : ⁠⁠https://youtu.be/PtBVAxoHeaY⁠⁠ GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠ ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠https://www.netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed, sponsor jobs. In the third and final part of our interview with Matthew Brown, the author of the Immaculate Constellation Report. The submission of this report onto the congressional record in its announcement caught people by surprise. Its distribution was allegedly very tight. And these unelected members on these congressional staffs that get to set the agenda for our elected leaders had to, to scramble and adjust in real time.

They panicked. What I have learned is that we live in a dream, a carefully constructed reality. We make use of a science that is tightly controlled and suppressed and distorted. Who are they? Why are they here? Why don't they show us what's going on? I think I have a good degree of confidence

that the reason they're here is us. I think life, especially sentient life, it's a precious thing. And I think to some, it might be a resource. I think humanity to some level is a resource for them. It's been a very painful, costly process to find allies, but I have them. There's more of us.

This doesn't stop. Right. You've got to know some of these other whistleblowers who are still not public yet. Correct. But who are at least close to coming forward. Yes. Is there strength in numbers in that regard? Yes.

And if all of us die are imprisoned, the seeds have implanted, more will come. I fly out to California and I meet with Michael Schellenberger. I told him, hey, I got a story for you. Would you like to chat with me? You know, I had met him previously, very briefly, totally something unrelated. And his work on the Twitter files defending, you know, free speech against a very pervasive and insiduous censorship regime that our government, even before the Biden administration had implemented, inspired me that he would do the right thing. Logical, great choice. You know, that was my hope is to have a lot of journalists working on this from different angles who you can trust, who are.

honest. So that's where your head's at. Yeah. So we have a good, we have a good meeting. I show him the document. This has been cleared by state. You know, I would prefer to like maybe cut it down because it's pretty long. Right. But you get to look at it and are you interested? The answer is yes. We're going to do a story. That's in summer of 24, I believe. Early summer, late spring. So with that in hand and knowing that I had at least tapped to Sask and Sissy

thought it was okay to move forward with that story and then try to talk to House with the full details in the meantime before that story came out you know it takes time to bet things he has to look into me just you know find out who I am

look into the details of what I'm alleging I know the process well so it takes months you know So I got some time. And in that time, I put the first time, get connected with David Grush. I'd have a very enlightening conversation with him. And at his suggestion, he connected me with you. And that is how we came to meet.

And I'm looking not to report on what you're saying initially. I'm looking to help you achieve the goal that we're all fighting for, which is getting the people asking for it, the information this doesn't have to be public. It doesn't have to be a public display. This is, let's facilitate these conversations. That's where we started. I'm not really doing journalism work with you. I'm trying to just help the process go.

That's how, that was my headspace. Yeah, I was asking Gresh, like, I'm having a real hard time, A, meeting members themselves, and B, just even talking to anybody in house, who's the guy to go to? And it was you. Okay. So that was the nature of our meeting. George and I have had a great relationship trying to help facilitate information knowledge and human beings in for this sort of thing.

so it makes sense it was a good move. We did well. With David Grush, so George and I's, our role oftentimes is to connect people. We are reporters. It is to break stories, tell the news. But really, a lot of what I was personally doing was trying to help facilitate the process they're asking for. At that time, we had had a great hearing.

David Grush, also quite afraid. who had to beg to testify. It was great. It was a success. Everything was clean on that one, on that hearing. This was a new thing, a new era. It felt different from the get-go. But the idea was we were going to have another set of hearings.

I'm all for that. They tapped me to try to help connect them with people and George. And so we've had many calls through many process. And now I'm out there to have meetings directly about firsthand people with firsthand experience who can directly testify about this, whether they talk publicly or not. not. This is the information you need. So I go to have these established meetings. You and I meet, I do, you know, physically, and we talk about it, and you want to come with me, and I can bring you in, but I can't let them know because we're still trying to protect you, trying to protect your identity.

So it was kind of like, we'll talk about it more indefinitely, but a kind of harrowing experience. You were very nervous. I mean, it was like you're exposing yourself in the, in those meetings. Absolutely. Right. And just by walking into those offices. or the buildings those offices are in. Right, right. Very public. Very public. So we kind of hid you in the camera cruise the way I say it in that you were walking with us

but getting into the buildings but I asked each member I said okay you wanted direct people I have one here to speak with you. Everybody needs to leave the room including the cameras. It'll just be us. Is that cool? And each one although they gave us wisdom along the way as we did our progression of getting you right in front of people to give them your quick testimony and some documentation.

So that's what we went through. And we go in and there you are. You're sitting in front of somebody with position. I just want to know, what did that feel like, first of all, that moment where you got to finally get to them? I mean, in the moment, it just was somber, serious. Also, you know, nervous. I got like, you know, it's a,

It's five minutes, but I only have probably like a minute to speak. Bro, you were sweating. You were stressed. I mean, it was intense. So getting, yeah, getting the most important information across and also establishing my credibility as fast as possible. And I was making sure you weren't a fucking plant. You know, to be honest, that was part of the process,

is making sure he'd say the same thing to, you know, to Congress, to members that he said to me, not that I didn't believe you, and I had done the vetting and I was there, but I want to hear you say it, show it, so you're not trying to entrap me. I mean, honestly, that's part of my thing. Man, we got through that, didn't we?

It did. It worked well. It did. So you come out of that thinking, okay, all right, this is good. I made contact. We'll see where it goes. Mold?

Yeah, pretty strong. Yeah. I mean, at this point in time, I'm very, actually, I skeptical is not the right word. I do not believe, did not believe that this would work in Congress, but I knew that the attempt had to be made. We had to try.

He had to try. I knew that I alone wasn't big enough or important enough to shift the tides of history there, to shift what apparently the executive branch had decided, which was we are going to squash this. And anybody that tries to bring it up, we are going to, you know, silence, cut out, and disparage. they were asking for whistleblowers. And there we are. And he is blowing the whistle on this. And that's what they were asking for.

So for me, it was a big win for them to meet you face to face. Because I knew down the line, if this is going to progress, look, you would have testified. Let's get real clear on this. They were asking for it. You would have testified. You were not asking to testify. You're saying, here's the little piece that I have. But you said in that room that you would, if requested.

I would if asked. And I did not want to do it at the upcoming hearing. Of course. Because that was very close and I in no way felt ready to do that. But you put the ball in their court. I did. You said you would. They didn't ask, right?

And we got to, there's a whole thing about that. But just you really put it out there. I did. Yeah. Okay. I think it'll take quite a change in our present circumstances for anybody to ever testify under oath on this subject again in a way that would make a difference. I think they know the power of in an open hearing, putting your hand on the Bible and swearing that you're going to speak nothing about the truth and doing so.

It's symbolic and it's very valuable. And that is why I believe that they are desperately attempting to deny. Well, and that's what we saw. You know, we don't got to rehash it. That's what we saw the second hearing. Absolutely controlled. Representative Birchett testified to it by saying it publicly. that the executive branch did limit what could be said in by who.

And George has brought that up a bunch. So I agree. The executive branch in the halls of Congress determining what the business of Congress is and not even through the courtesy of a phone call to the vice president or the president, but through minions and stuges. Unelected, probably CIA. Yeah, well, certainly. When you hear about the lineup for the hero,

that was held. You've got to be feeling pretty good about it. Oh, yeah. There's going to be a witness. He's going to talk about Immaculate Constellation. And not just a witness on his own next to Lou Elizondo, Tim Galadette, and this guy I've never heard of before, but it seems nice. Nick Gold, or Mike Gold. Mike Gold. They're thinking, all right, good, all right. It's going to come out. We're all pumped. Did you know exactly what was going to be discussed by the Schellberger at that point? You can guess. I mean, I knew it was going to be, you know, me and my words and my report because the two of you met with them the night before the hearing. Well, yeah, and I mean, I had met with Michael to give him the story. I seem like there's no mystery here, why they're bringing him. Yeah, there was a lot before that too. But, I mean, I have a two-plus month process of prompting trying to get something on congressional record, knowing that what your testimony was valuable. It wasn't just like spur of the moment.

There is a process. It was three major meetings that occurred to validate the information that you provided to me. It's not just like – so getting on something on congressional record is a little bit more tricky than people think. They have to have time with it. So I very slowly, with your authorization, over those months, had in-person meetings, not just you being there, but then working with them, showing them the information. So they had time to vet it. They're worried about getting scammed, too.

Right. So it was a process. It was a process that for me was very arduous personally. There are a lot of phone conversations that we sat in on with House staff. And it got curiouser and curiouser as the people who were in on these conversations with us on the other hand. National security folks just popping in on a meeting that I'm supposed to be having with them. They wanted to know what assets George and I have to visually show them. We were going to provide them. They were saying at one point that we were going to testify. And I said, cool. and I want to give something substantial to the American public. This is what I want to give them. Well, you know, at some point they're trying to get us into a SCIF. And my federal lawyer, our federal lawyer, said, do not go in there because they will immediately classify all that information

that alleged the UMAO access to, and then you're never reporting on it. So we went through our own journey. We don't have to get into that in this discussion. But there was a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes. But hurrah, hooray, congressional record. your report, which is misrepresented when Nancy Mays talked about a big time, but we're happy, we're happy. And I was stoked to have Michael Schellenberger, who at that time, I was like, this is great. He's going to be a good ally moving forward, and he's the right man for the job.

Bottom line, no matter the Shanigan's involved, and how revealing that second hearing was about the control mechanisms in place about UAP, I was elated, and I think so were you, that without having to put your face out to the public and endure all of that like you're doing and getting an experience now, your testimony got put on a congressional record. That was a big one. Yeah. There was a bit of a personal pleasure, too. I, at the very least, got to see someone else be scared for once.

Who was scared? not the bosses of the people who interfere in Congress, but the minions themselves, because their bosses didn't tell them what was going to happen. Can you dive a little deeper into that? Well, by all appearances, both behind the scenes and in front of them, the submission of this report onto the congressional record in its announcement caught people by surprise.

Its distribution was allegedly very tight, and these unelected members on these congressional staffs that get to set the agenda for our elected leaders had to scramble and adjust in real time. They panicked. See, having something on congressional record is different than just putting out a news report. News report goes away, one click done. This is much bigger. And I saw that too. So it was a big move

and it was probably was filled with pleasure to see it stirred shit up. Yes. You know, you said it before and I want to drill this home. At one time, saying these words,

putting these words in text, saying them over the phone, there was repercussion for that. At one time. I understand it. As I understand it as well. But so it gets published and I was stoked.

I remember that day I went on a new show and I was like, I had nothing. I didn't do it. Somebody put it out. I mean, you let me know that it was going to be public, but I was like, I was stoked to hear those words mentioned. But getting it on record, watching the table's turn was filled with pleasure. Yeah.

No long-term outcome, but this is a fight without many wins. So take the small personal pleasures. As this news travels, is there a blowback? Do you suddenly realize, hey, something might happen to me as a result of this getting out there? You're happy that it's finally there on the record. But then does that change over the days or weeks? weeks afterward. Not so much. I was definitely under no illusions at this point. Nothing would functionally change, but what mattered was adding new fuel to the fire to what looked like

was a dying cause. Is there blowback for you personally? Does anybody call you and say, you shouldn't have done that or does somebody figure out who you are? Is there an attempt to identify who you are? I'm sure there were attempts. I'm sure some of them were successful, but I mean, I've been known to internal security undoubtedly since almost day one. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. You know, here's the deal.

People misunderstand because it was misrepresented in Congress. This is not a Pentagon paper, a product. You are the author of what the world knows as the Immaculate Constellation Report. This is a report based upon a field report, based upon your investigation, what you've discovered, trying to do the right thing, bringing it to the people that need to see it because it was so hard, even though they're asking for you, to get it to them. So just to be really clear for the fundamentally for people, Immaculate Constellation Report, what was submitted into Congress onto Congress, onto Congress. congressional record, which we fought together to get that done, is your words, it's not some government Pentagon report like it was misrepresented by Nancy Mason Congress. Not all.

All my words, 100% authored by me. One of the striking things for me in kind of talking with you through this process, but just reading the final report that went on to congressional record, I mean, you list and label cuboid formation of metallic orbs. are UFOs, right? So fast-mover observed transiting over satellite, or sorry, sensitive facilities, intelligence vessels positioned to collect on reproduction vehicle. Equilateral triangle UAP tails unwitting vessel. This one struck me. Large disk using clouds as concealment. And why that struck me is because George and I have been exposed to a lot over the years. And I think I know.

And other people know what you're referencing here. It sounds like you watched a video. You said on U.S. government networks, there exist. O-P-I-R footage. What is it? Overhead persistent infrared. That might be a correction. That a satellite may not have been an OPR satellite after all.

But this one, and you keep going on, a boomerang shape, jellyfish-shaped, you know, tick-tac shape. You're not just making these words up. Like you saw visual evidence of these. Yeah. And so did have George Knapp and I, we have been exposed to. along the years a lot of visual evidence. But this one, the large disk in the clouds,

just explain to me seeing something like that. Well, number one, it's pretty striking because you're watching it from Spinks. It's always cool to watch satellite feeds. And that's just something the general public doesn't get to see. And then, too, just the size of it, it was immediately like, well, what the hell is that?

It was in, I assume, infrared, either black hot for that one. So the white clouds around it. And yeah, it's almost playful in its activities or like it was startled. But it's one of those cases where I look at it and, you know, it looks like a flying saucer. But it might be one of the things that maybe that was actually one of ours in the wrong place at the wrong time. What do you mean it looks startled? What does that mean?

You know, it's just looking at an area over the ocean is what it appears. and this thing just comes chundling along from, like underneath the cloud cover comes up. And then right when it's like almost center frame, it squits off to the side and like tries to get out of... Like it comes into a certain going, oops, I'm being somebody spotted me. I can get out of it. Exactly. It was visibly, that's the feeling it had. That was kind of haunting to me.

We checked when we were with some friends recently. I never know. We are not qualified to know. some of the things we've been exposed to are legitimate or not. But when I get confirmations, like you describing this and other people we've just recently talked to, I know that footage exists. We've been exposed to it. And I think that that's a nice piece to the puzzle for the public.

What about jellyfish? Yeah. So, I mean, I only heard that term once it was released. Similar stuff I had seen on the inside and it was often labeled like a floating brain or an organic or irregular shape, so that's why it's in there. So, yeah, I've seen multiple instances of irregular shaped things that look thematically similar to the jellyfish. I've never seen the jellyfish video itself.

But seeing those, you know, there's an instance of there, one in Southcom right at our border, crossing what appears to be into United States. airspace. Let me get clear. Undetected. From Mexico? I believe from one way or another. I can't recall the compass orientation right now, but I would assume into the U.S.,

which is why it was interesting. Yeah, let me get clear in a couple of days. Well, first of all, you know, people like yourself, you get, it's happened with Lazar, happened with Greg, like every word you say, you know, you're worried about if your memory isn't perfect, this sort of, you've done a great job of really curating, making sure what you said is accurate. It's okay to make a mistake. It's okay to, like, not remember the exact.

equipment that did this or that in your brain. Just so you're saying the word jellyfish, you first heard kind of when George and I released that thing into the public media, jellyfish, although it was described differently for different assets you've seen on service. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That term was describing something I had seen before. Okay, okay. But we just called the jellyfish because that's what it was told to us.

They had two spaghetti monster was our other option. It was said to it. Jellyfish works. But that morphology or shape is something that consistently you had seen within these classified servers. Yes, in other contexts outside of the Middle East. Okay. You ever see any videos where we're engaging with them? Either we're chasing them, our warplanes or something are going after a disc, a saucer, an orb, or something like that?

So I've seen videos and read reports of engagements, but not live, like, we're not. shooting them, but engagements where, you know, either we are trying to intercept something, read lots of reports on that and from other countries as well trying to intercept these things. Each report will have its own shape that they're chasing, but guess what they are. But then, yeah, when there's an example in there off the East Coast, what would be classed as an engagement where we're up there protecting our airspace and encountering these things and interacting with them

in a way that we would consider hostile and if it was if it was anything else, you know, if we had a Russian bomber patrol that had a fighter escort and they tried to box our fighters out, force them down from the wash, the jet wash,

you know, that would be a hostile engagement. But for whatever reason, you know, we're not describing it that way internally. So we're sending a plane up to take a look. Yeah. maybe get a better look or even some imagery, but not to engage, meaning shoot it down,

shoot a sidewinder out of it or something. Right. I would, you know, I'm not going to be able to say that's never happened, but I have, I've not seen them engaged, yeah, with weapons. Well, it recently happened, and we became aware of one. More details on that, I think we'll report on. And what happened was the missile, quote, bounced off. And so they're trying to figure that out.

But, you know, what does that imply, like a field around it? I don't know. We also released one that was so embarrassing to release. We had to call it. It looked like Kermit the Frog. I think we called it the Syria Dome, UAP. But the reason we released it, because verified, we tried to engage it. We tried to shoot it.

And I believe we hit it, but we don't know the aftermath or what happened to that. We reported on that is actual information, even though it looks so silly we had to report it because it's UAP. So from the recent event to that, it brings me back to what you said, George, about the official orders back in Russia. back in the day. Tell me that real quick again. So the Russian military, that from 78 to 88, they had a standing order for every unit in this vast Soviet military empire, any UFO or ball of light flying saucer, anything weird in the sky. It had to all be investigated. And the guy who was in charge of that program at the Ministry of Defense said that there had been several dozen instances where they sent planes, war planes, to intercept these UFOs.

And mostly they couldn't keep up with them. They just poof. They're gone. But in three cases, they tried to engage and shoot them down. Three cases where those planes, the Russian war planes, crashed. Two of the pilots died. And after the second pilot died, they issued an order, leave them alone. Because in the words of the commander of the Russian Air Force, they said they have incredible capacities for retaliation. So.

Why so many shapes? Why do you think so many shapes? I used to think fly saucers were disks. I used to think UFOs were fly assacers. That's what I used to think. Now, after knowing this guy for so long, reading all the reports, getting whistleblowers, talking with him, why somebody shoots? I think part of it's, um, sometimes these might be, you know, made to purpose.

Uh, so, you know, if they're only making it for a specific use case scenario, they'll design it to excel on that mission. I guess we do that. We do that. Absolutely. We have bombers that look a certain way, and then we have reconnaissance vehicles that look another way. Star Wars, they have giant cruisers, and they have the ex-fighters for different jobs. Would you be surprised to hear about cases where these things, large objects come out of the ocean or go back into the ocean?

Does that sound familiar? I would not be surprised. I have not seen very large objects go in and out of the water, but I've definitely seen small to medium-sized UAPs either going into the water and disappearing. or going in and out or coming out of the water. Fact. Fact. And on video and described, you know.

There's a video and described any kind of change of inertia. I'm sorry. Multiple videos. Any kind of, we have also been exposed to some. Let me ask you this. Any change of, like any inertial effect, any change of speed or motion. That's like the water wasn't there.

It's like the gold for anybody wants to see. I wonder if it's ever enough. Like, is video ever enough? Like, what is enough for, people to wrap their heads that there's a real issue here. I don't know. I don't think one video is ever going to change. I want to talk to you about signals, intelligence, signet, right? That was a big part of your investigation. Can you explain that and why? Yeah. So it was one of the sources where we have a fantastic intelligent posture. It's not as data heavy. So it's just much easier to

move around and access and read through quickly. Now, It's one of the shortest sections in there because in my mind, you know, those are these are incidental collections, right? Yeah. I'm sure we are specifically collecting signals intelligence on this. But my research was not in those sort of data streams. That majority is accidental kind of capturing of. Exactly. From other countries, other military.

activities related to this and their observations related to this, or sometimes historic things that we acquire that happen to pop up in those in the SIGAN channels. Yeah, so the reason there's less detail there, though, is we're using those every day. We rely on them a lot, and they're very fragile, very sensitive, and diplomatically sensitive as well. The things you're describing that you'd seen that are in this report are mostly things that are in the Pacific. and the Atlantic. There's over Africa. They're foreign things. Something coming over the border from Mexico. What about cases in the U.S.? Is NORAD? Is that just a black hole for these kinds of images?

So something that happens over our country, you don't even get to see it. Yeah, Northcom is a black hole. You need, I mean, just legislatively, there's legal things keeping us, the military and the IC supposedly, from looking at the states. That's supposed to be a domestic law enforcement mission in general. You've got to have a very good reason to be looking at, you know, over your neighbor's fence, basically. This is a, I think it's, you know, it's functionally a barrier to prevent, prevent accidental or just curious people, you know, doing things they shouldn't in our home, in our homeland, which would actually get them in trouble. It's one thing if we're doing it, you know, some foreign country is one thing

if we're crossing the line and spying here without a specific mission. The complaint we hear from UFO world is, I don't care about these blurry images. These things are blurry. The Tic Tac, to me, that was a fantastic image. You're not sending Dave Fraver up with an IMAX camera to make a movie. These are captured on sensor systems. The same as like 2019, the USS Omaha, pitch black,

100 miles off the coast of Southern California. they're picking up an image that they follow for an hour on a thermal camera. They're blurry, but they're amazing images. I mean, is there a reason that the public doesn't see crystal clear movie quality images of UFOs? Yeah, I think, unfortunately, it's a product of our education system, a lack of curiosity in general about the world. There's a lot of arrogance in our academy, and that arrogance filters down to our citizens. We know the world. We haven't figured out.

There's nothing I'd really like to discover here. And I think in general, there's so much misinformation, stigma, mythology that people grow up with that lead them to just automatically categorize any of this as just, you know, false, fake, not real, misidentified. Or bandane. Yeah. Well, I mean, getting an image on a thermal camera, 100 miles out to sea in total. blackness sounds pretty cool to me. That sounds like an amazing accomplishment. But is there other additional reasons that have been maybe discussed behind closed doors,

force fields of some sort around these craft that make things blurry, even from a mid-camera image, do you know? Probably a very real explanation for why certain shapes, you know, are harder to observe than others. I think, you know, whether it's active camouflage and like the skin of the vehicle itself, that definitely seems to be in play, or a field like you describe. I've seen evidence of fields around crafts. Yeah, some things we've seen have looked so bizarre. It makes no sense to my brain.

It is possible. I've heard that from a number of whistleblowers at different levels, that what you're seeing could just be a part of a greater structure, you know? So it could be something like that, speculating. We had this Chinese balloon thing that happened. Three different objects. UFOs, three UFOs shot down in a couple of week period. And then we saw people use that,

the usual people in the media world who bash this stuff, who tried to blame it on the UAP Task Force. The reason we're not, NORAD is not looking for something like this, because the UAP Task Force confused the whole situation. it's as if NORAD would only look for things that look like planes, bombers, or missiles. So we didn't look for UFOs. Is it possible that we didn't look for UFOs because it didn't really want to find them? Or is it we were looking for UFOs, just the public and most of the government never saw?

We've always been seeing these things with things like radar. So it's part of standard operating procedures to, to deny this and to not acknowledge it. So we've been seeing it. We're just pretending not to see it. Absolutely. Our public institutions like the FAA

or similar in even local context, it's not allowed to be discussed. And there might even be technical measures in the technology of this place that just prevents it from even popping up on a screen. Right. You know like TikTok.

So that happened for two or three weeks. They could get a little. little glimpse of it on these systems, really sensitive, advanced Navy systems at the time, and then poof, it fell off. At the USS Omaha, they had 12 or 14 of these things zipping in. You'd see them on the radar screen, and then poof. If they didn't want to be seen, we weren't seeing them. I guess it could be that as part of an explanation. If they don't want to be detected on radar, they have ways to avoid radar, whoever they are. Yeah, that's a dangerous dynamic to have willful ignorance on our side and their capability to at least attempt to

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Drones. So 60 Minutes just did a big piece on drones. Langley Air Force Base had these things flying over it for 17 nights in a row, stayed in New Jersey for weeks at a time, sensitive bases, restricted airspace, at U.S., UK bases in Britain for days and days, we can't track these things coming in. We can't track them when they leave. We can't shoot them down.

We don't know where they're from. But don't worry, they're just drones. They're foreign surveillance drones. Give me your take on that whole situation. Well, if you're a member of the public and you are still listening to CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, we're reading the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal. All of that is controlled. It's propaganda.

It is shaping your life narrative. Intentionally so. As for the government reactions to that, I was very disappointed to see a continuation of the dismissal of these events by the Trump administration's press secretary. I can guess why they decided. despite the campaign promise to immediately address that issue to not has to do with geopolitical situations we are currently involved in, and the fact that we are living through a constitutional

crisis related to this issue. It just seems to me that it is a worse thing to say, these might be foreign surveillance drones, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. We can't track them, we can't see them, we can't shoot them down, then it is to say, these are genuine unknowns. It seems like they're unknowns, not just some drone that the Chinese are floating off of New Jersey.

There's an infection in our security thinking, which is that, you know, they're primacists. They must be on top. To admit weakness is to admit defeat. And to say you don't know what something is, a pretty big signal of weakness. There's not,

much humility and a lot of arrogance driving, I think, these responses more so than any strategy. Yeah, we've got just, I want to defend footage. I want to defend footage. There's a lack of education about what people are seeing in thermal. So, first of all, these are weapons systems. These aren't IMAX cameras. But they're kind of better than an IMAX camera because you can see in the fucking dark. So I think there's an education process.

And we've been trying with our reporting to teach people when you see something in thermal, what you're seeing is a heat signature. And that heat signature represents that shape of the heat. It's just a, I think it's an education process. It has to come from curiosity. But people need to be told what they're seeing. It's new to a lot of people. It was new to me when I started seeing military videos for the first time.

So in defense of grainy, bad footage, people just need to understand what they're seeing to understand the impact if they're curious enough. Question, like any country in this world could disclose at this point a major country with technological development could disclose we are not alone in the universe. There are others as visitors have been here a long time. Why? Why has everybody agreed to not say that to the public? Do you have any philosophies? Why?

I think in the West this is the reaction. That's an important distinction. I cannot comment so much on why Russia or China have. have not addressed this in a different way than us. But I think in the West and the Five Eyes Alliance and its subsidiaries, you know, there is a understanding at least that this is not talked about at official channels, especially if you're a, you know, small kid on the block. You don't speak out of turn.

But it also points. to, I think, the fact that this doesn't ultimately reside in the government anymore. This is held in an illegal, internationalist regime, some sort of international cabal of sorts, mix of corporate, military, political, intelligence, and criminal interests that have come together and they have subverted us and have taken this and have made it the source of their wealth power. So I'd ask Matt, Dr. Edgar Mitchell told me in one of the last film, before he died, he used very similar words. Well, that doesn't make me feel good. Yeah. Well, he was sure of it. You're a whistleblower, not a source to me and George. You know, you're a whistleblower.

You know, I want to, we do want to help. Are you, I always hear whistleblowers are scared. And we know, we know some people, the same people, but there's a lot that have come to us that you don't know. Are you scared? Are you scared? Now coming forward? Are you scared? I mean, it comes in waves. Okay. So yes. But I make a conscious effort every day to not that fear rule my life and my deeds. So, yes, I'm scared, but this is the right thing. It's the necessary thing. And I was raised right. You think that by talking to us, it's possible that you might have some protection in that if somebody cuts your brake lines and you'd go off a cliff, at least there's going to be somebody

looking into it and raise some hell about it. You know, if that happens, don't try too hard. Focus on the mission. So this is more about people need to know than about your personal well-being. Any regrets now? I trusted too much. and I did not trust myself enough. Took some,

I paid some prices and I do not doubt that there are the seeds for future costs I'll have to pay in the future. Describe for us the personal costs, the reality for you going forward, your outlook for ever working for the government again, for example, or in it with any kind of a job that requires a security clearance, personal cut, cost to your marriage, your personal light?

Well, with the job with government, my career is dead. It has been dead for years now. I have a file on me. I won't. Even if I chose to never do any of this and just keep working, I predict that I would have found my career stunted mysteriously as soon as it would have sought to or would have sought to advance into what I thought was a noble mission. Personally, it's hard to describe. I know that I've been doing this for about four years now. only very recently have I had anyone to talk to about it outside of like

you know hey can you make this meeting happen I've had no allies that has changed it's been a very painful costly process to find allies but I have them there's more of us this doesn't stop

right you got to know some of these other whistleblowers who are still not public yet, but who are at least close to coming forward. Yes. Is there strength in numbers in that regard? Yes, and if all of us die are imprisoned, the seeds have been planted, more will come. Well, those seeds have been planted about deaths in the whistleblower community. Those stories circulate, I would imagine pretty quickly among you and people you know. Yeah, but I'm still here.

You think anybody has been killed? because they knew too much on this topic? Yes. I believe, and I think, and I could probably help someone else prove it. But lethal action has been taken against people that tried to get the truth out. Or maybe we're just considered wildguards, not able to be efficiently controlled, no longer useful. I think once you taste the darkness, you like using it. They don't have to kill you. They get discreeting you some way.

Oh, yeah. Manufacture something. They asked you to come forward, and you even felt that you had a small piece to the puzzle, and you weren't even sure if it was worth it, and then you do that. And that what you suffer is the consequences against your career. There's other things we're not saying that we suspect are related to you coming forward. God, that's got to hurt, man. That's got to be painful.

They've asked you to come forward, and you tried all the ways to do that. We had to go to a little bit extreme measures to get the rest going. It's got to be painful. Yeah, it is. I don't think it will stop being, although hopefully time is its own self. I'd like to spend that time with my wife, my family, about NSL or in the ground. But, you know, this is bigger than me. It's bigger than us.

This is the fate of our people. And to me, I'm willing to pay that price. Is it ironic? You have to put your face out with us to protect yourself at this point. That's what we're doing, right? Yeah. That's what we're doing. This is absolutely what I did not want to do.

I can attest to that. This is exactly what you did not want to do. Correct. Have you gamed it out in your head? What happens next? What will likely be? assuming we go forward with this interview and make it public, and right now we don't know that that's the case,

but when it comes out, if it comes out, what happens to you then? What are the risks? Well, gaming it out. There's more than me. More will come. I could say more if I wanted to. Hopefully this rises to a level of public attention

that demands to be addressed in a serious, way. I can't cause that alone. Other people will, but more need to come. And I think at this point, I'd like to say directly to the members of our military and our intelligence community, the time is now where you must choose whether you honor your oath or your orders. And if you have courage, you already know the answer. But for the rest of you, lead follower get out of the way. Get out of the way. We know people are coming forward, and we know we've recorded George and I with other people

who will be coming forward. You know, so you're not alone. But you say you could say more. Just explain that. When I wrote this document, I've kind of given my state of mind and the measures I took to protect it. I'm also, you know, familiar.

with ways that information can be extracted that passwords and encryption don't matter. So I didn't write everything down. So there are other bullets left to fire if you needed to. Yeah. You know, talk about things getting lost in the shelf. Well, I highly doubt many members of the public read 11 pages, much less the first. But at the end, there's an interesting area. People might notice that it's out of order, too.

sequentially out of order, there's missing sections. And one of that last sections, it says sensitive sources from mouth to ear. We talked about keeping that in or what to how far to go with. What does that mean? Well, exactly what it says. Those words were only spoken from my mouth to another's ear. What is it like to have absolute knowledge that not only UFOs are

real, that we've been hiding that, that our government has controlled that information away from the base human population and that there is another intelligence that is engaged in humanity straight up. What does that feel like being

one of the people that knows that and doesn't suspect that? It's weird going to the supermarket. Even more, it's bizarre to work in government and see legions of people who have no clue about any of this and no clue that they are being deceived. Why should people believe you? I mean, I know. I know what we've been through, but that's not public stuff to everybody, every step we've taken. Why should people believe what you're saying?

I was there. I saw it. I spent years researching it. If all that I'm consulting is passage material, then we are engaged in a massive deception against our own military and intelligence community that I was a victim of. And it would have been on a scale

that probably would have been its own new story. Oh, absolutely, nonsensical madness. Yeah. Yeah. So as a human being, why should people believe you? Well, as a human being, I feel like I'm genuine, putting myself out there, sacrificing my future, my past, and a lot of what I have now to do this for no gain. And you're getting nothing from us. We're just reporting because it's an important story. And you're telling it because it's true.

Absolutely. It is true. It is true. and I can't think of anything more pressing for our nation to come to terms with than the fact that we have been deceived and our rights taken away to protect the privileges of an elite view. I am not going to live my life knowing that I could have helped prevent another generation of America and humanity from living in ignorance. It's Daredevil. I'm right here.

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So there's certain stuff you are exposed to an official capacity that you've come to conclusion on and that you know to be correct, know to be true. Then there are extrapolations and philosophies and ideas from other types of sourcing of information. And we can talk about that kind of in a separate realm. And I value your opinion. I think people will too because of your exposure to certain things you're saying and not saying. Okay. but if we're talking just about our ideas now.

You have thoughts about big picture stuff, who they are. Is it more than one they? Is it us from the future? E.T.'s, interdimensional's. Do you think there's anybody in government who knows? And if they do know, is there any reason why this should say stay secret, at least some of it should stay secret, the public cannot handle? No. the only reason for secrecy is fear and greed and that is the paradigm that we must confront and overcome

as for the public and what their reaction might be to this information good bad indifference I think we already have our answer it's going to be indifference unless the uh the stakes are made clear. You're an absolutist. You're like rip the bandaid off. There's no bandaid. There's no wound. This is not about protecting, healing.

This is about power and control. This isn't about trying to save what's good. It's about getting rid of what's evil. Power and control, meaning controlling the technology and what it would mean. Those are just means. Controlling humanity. Everything. Do you suspect that there are reverse engineering programs, or there have been crashes,

that there are attempts to replicate that technology? You've got hints of it in the ARV or RV, that we're trying to build what these things can do. Do you think we've done it, that we've accomplished it, somebody? Yeah, I think we've absolutely replicated some of these capabilities in inferior forms and oftentimes maybe disaggregated from what was at once a unitary system, but we're only able to do a small part what that system does. We've seen people say they think that the Tic Tac is something we had 21 years ago. And I'm wondering, well, where the hell is it?

I mean, if we have this technology, we've done some of it to get even inferior versions of it, is that something that's going to be incorporated into the U.S. military arsenal, or is it something that's outside of it that's controlled by some of it? who's not using it for national defense? I think the U.S. military might be allowed to use some of this technology in the national defense, but I don't think they ultimately have control over it. You know, this is a kind of arms race. It's a technology race. Whoever gains the ability to effectively weaponize this, they win.

We know that UFOs, due to the propulsion systems, are a matter of national security and weapons of mass destruction. And we know that. We don't think that. We met with people that deal with that, right? Do you agree with that? Do you think that this is we are in a race with China and Russia? There's other countries competing to weaponize this.

And do you think that's a problem? Because you dealt with weapons of mass destruction in your official career. I think deterrence, strategic deterrence has migrated out of, sorry, has evolved from relying on nuclear weapons as the pinnacle. I believe we have, and others have developed the means to maybe utilize nuclear reactions to create some very dangerous effects through directed energy. your concern is directed energy weapon rate

among many but when it comes to WMDs and relations to this technology I think we have been successful in both deriving new science that we have then suppressed to preserve a strategic advantage

and I think I probably don't want to talk too much more about deterrenties somebody was flying these things that crashed. Somebody built these things that are being reverse engineered. Who's that somebody? And why don't they come forward? I mean, you know, you may not have seen that in a document or a file or something somewhere, but you've thought about it. You're a smart guy. What are your thoughts on the big picture questions? Who are they? Why are they here? Why don't they show us what's going on? I think I have

a good degree of confidence that the reason they're here is us. I think life, especially sentient life, it's a precious thing. And I think to some it might be a resource. I think humanity to some level is a resource for them. That for commodity? Possibly a commodity, possibly form of entertainment. possibly medical-related? I think they live here?

Yes. For all intents of purpose? Yes. Always? I don't know about always, but it certainly appears that they have been here for most of recorded history.

At least some element of this has been here for most of human recorded history. You think we would see them if they didn't let us see them? Even with our more advanced sensors that they pop up, but they can also disappear.

And do they allow us to get these limpses? Is that a game some sort, I wonder? Or an education process. It's a bizarre one that I could not understand if it is a game. I think they're both just as powerful as we think, but also less. And I think there is not a single they here. Multiple? Multiple, certainly multiple factions of the same species, if not multiple species.

And all the complexity that brings, which might be our best hope. Do they have an agenda? different types, you know, what are your philosophies on this? Like, who are the others? Why are they here? And you've touched upon it, I know, we're kind of going back a little bit, but that is the big question. I just want to separate so people understand your exposure and your personal conclusions. So I have been exposed to no direct information on the anatomy, biology, intentions, culture, politics. Never came across those files?

Never came across those. I think those are all some of the deepest secrets. Right. They would be if this is correct information. What I have learned is that we live in a dream, a carefully constructed reality,

we make use of a science that is tightly controlled and suppressed and distorted. I think we are left behind. Humans. I think normies, the normal humans, the people have been left behind us. People need to understand that we might have freedom of speech, but that has been subverted.

We do not have freedom of inquiry. we are blocked from learning what we need to know just in the public world. We are blocked from advancing in science. We are taught false science intentionally to prevent us from learning more. We live in the Matrix. It's just much more boring than the movie.

I think about whistleblowers, like yourself, you're about to find out, assuming we release this, you're about to find out what the price is for coming forward. And there are other people, in the same kind of position who are wondering what they should do, who are basically being held in limbo. They worked in classified programs their whole life. That's what they do. That's what pays their bills. And they're held in limbo and that's held over their head so they don't come forward. And they're debating, taking the same steps as you. There is no hope or help for anything

like folks like that. Is there? I mean, we've heard promises. We'll help whistleblowers come forward. We'll give them support. They're private equity funds. and organizations that say they're going to help, but we haven't seen shit so far, have we? And have you? No, I've reached out directly to institutions that claim that they are here to help UAP whistleblower specifically, both in the process of coming forward and any sort of stability afterwards.

It's been radio silence. At best, at worst, one of those institutions has stolen my information. There is no organized help for whistleblowers. It is all controlled. It is all at either the special interest of industry that wants to get in on this or by the existing powers that be. Intelligence agencies who have infiltrated or created these things. Correct. I have directly experienced that sadly, you know, over this last year, which is the vacuuming up of intelligence on people such as yourself who are

trying to do the right thing as whistleblowers, as well as anything that reporters could possibly obtain and release. And it is a treacherous moment in our history of this. You did a call to action to people. You told them this, you know, it's time, you know, move forward. I know that you had some encouragement with David Grush. I hope people are encouraged, you know, also by you. Look, man, if you were to die tomorrow because of whatever reason, what do you want people know. Right now, like what do you want people to know if you're just like fucking on? You are not free. And this reality has far more to it than you have been allowed to believe. And God is real.