WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - Saucers, Bodies, Debris - The Lost Tapes Of UFO Whistleblower Col. Phillip Corso

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Inspired by the sworn testimony of UFO whistleblowers, Congress is grappling with legislation designed to force the disclosure of materials, craft, and bodies allegedly collected from crash sites. The current wave of whistleblowers is not the first to spill secrets about UFO crashes and reverse engineering efforts by military contractors. In 1997, a high-ranking Army Intelligence official Colonel Phillip Corso shocked the world with his account about a Pentagon office charged with dribbling bits and pieces of alien technology out to major corporations and labs. The tech, Corso said, came from crashes near Roswell New Mexico. Corso's book "The Day After Roswell" became a huge bestseller in 1997, the 50th anniversary of the Roswell events.  But five years before he released a book, long before he was known to anyone in the UFO field, Corso told his story to George Knapp. Corso also sat down for two lengthy interviews conducted by personnel associated with NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science. The interviews were recorded, though the recordings were never released. In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy and George revisit the Corso tale and take a deep dive into the unreleased Corso tapes.  •••  GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail]  For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media.  Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah. The thing in the RSA was the lip gland part and digestive system which didn't exist. He also told a story about being at White Sands, New Mexico, at that base, and being out in the desert and meeting an alien. Later, something mysterious happened to disappear. But anyway, that's another story. You mean all the material disappeared? The saucer's self. Secrets, cover-ups, and strange phenomena.

UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself. All these mysteries, all this time. Are we ever going to get to the bottom of these? My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't. I'm Jeremy Corbell, and for some reason, people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is weaponized. This is weaponized, Jeremy.

Long time no see. Yeah, nice to be in the studio, man. Good to see you. So, 2023 might be remembered as the year that stories about reverse engineering and crash saucers went from folklore to a front burner issue because of a testimony under oath of David Grush. We know that there are other witnesses who've come forward, spoke to Grush. The information has been transmitted to the Department of Defense, to the Inspector General of the intelligence community. There's a lot of heft behind this story about crash saucers, reverse

engineering, stories that we heard from Bob Lazar long, long ago. But that is not the first time this stuff has come up before. So I thought we might talk about today about Colonel Philip Corso. Yeah, absolutely. And you have a very unique, and I'm glad our audience, to hear this from you. You know, you've kind of been at the forefront of everything, man, recording people before they were known in public. So, of course, you broke the Bob Lazar story, our friend Bob. You know, you broke that story in silhouette, talking about reverse engineering. But Philip Horson, now this is a really serious military guy that really came to you before he was ever public, before he wrote his book Day After Roswell, which is real famous now. And he had some

pretty astounding claims. But who was he personally? He was a real military guy, real guy. real guy. So 1992, I had taken some leave away from Channel 8, KLAS, to work on a series of UFO documentaries. UFO is the best evidence, which we hope would be come a long-running series, just didn't work out that way. But I get a call from a colleague of mine named Mark Sauter. He was a reporter for Cairo in Seattle. And the reason we knew each other is we were both working on stories about POWs that have been left behind in Vietnam and in Korea. And Mark Sauter, was aware that I had an interest in that issue, he had gained testimony from a guy named Colonel Philip Corso. Corso appeared before a Senate committee and told them that hundreds of

Americans, soldiers had been left behind, abandoned in Korea. And it was highly controversial testimony at the time, but in the years that followed, it proved to be pretty much true. I think he also said the same thing about Vietnam. But along with that conversation with my friend Mark Sauter, he told this other story about UFOs, crashed saucers, Roswell, and Mark thought, well, that's my bailiwick, so he called me up and told me about it, and I reached out to Corso, and we struck up a friendship and had multiple long-term conversations on the phone about what he knew, and he told me this incredible story, that he had seen the Roswell wreckage, that he had seen an alien body, that he had, as part of his official duties for the U.S. Army, cede.

private companies and labs with alien technology to give them a little boost in producing what we now know is really dramatic high-tech instruments and technology. So I thought, wow, that's a pretty wild story. I said, would you be interested in telling that story on camera? Would you come out to Las Vegas? And he said, yeah. And for a while, he wanted me to write his book. He thought I was the guy to write the book that eventually became the day after Roswell. We bought him a ticket, round trip, non-refunds. for some reason. And the day before he's supposed to come out, I get a call from a guy who turned out to be his new agent who said, we're not coming. We're not going to, we're doing something else.

We're going into a different direction. And that was a big disappointment. But it wasn't the end of the road, my road with Colonel Corso. Flash forward four years later, 1996. Robert Bigelow has created something called NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science. I was sort of a consultant, a friend of Bigelows and also a consultant to them, and they were looking for ideas on things to do. This is before Bigelow bought what we now know as Skinwalker Ranch. So it occurred to me as they're looking for projects to investigate. I do this guy, Philip Corso, enough time is gone by, water under the bridge. I knew the 50th anniversary of Roswell was coming, and the book that I was originally

asked to write was probably in production. So I just reached out to him and called him up, and he talked to me again, and I said, I'm working with some guys, including some ex-government intelligence folks, and they're interested in your story. Can we come and see you? And he said, yeah. He lived in Jupiter, Florida, I think, or a little town outside of Jupiter, Florida. So Bigelow gives us his jet. John Alexander and I jump on the plane with another Nid's guy. We stop in Austin, Texas, picked up a fellow named Dr. Hal Putoff, and flew on to Florida and spent some time with Corso. Over a couple of days, we go to his house and Corso did not want his family to overhear what he was going to say,

because I guess apparently it was kind of sensitive with them, and they didn't want him spilling all the beans to some outsiders before the book came out. So we all went outside into an RV and sat there for multiple hours, and he told this story. And I brought along a little camera. I am not a talented photographer like you, Jeremy, but I did my best to record this story that he told. And I thought, you know, this is footage that most of which has not been seen. So I thought we could play some of it. Yeah.

And so this is the first time that he has gone on camera. And you back in the day were able to get this interview. So let's just back up a second. So Philip Corso, it sounds to me like he was a military whistleblower about prisoners of war. And he testified to Congress? Yes. So look, you got a guy who's already like a whistleblower.

He's like, no, I'm going to tell the truth about something in a rough situation. Then he tells you all this stuff about UFOs. Now, the core that I know of his claims was that. reverse engineering programs were indeed going on, that we got what we call derivative technologies. So there are certain things from UFO exploitation or reverse engineering programs that were seeded into private industry. Of course, he took credit preceding it.

Yeah. But whether that's true or not, his basic premise was that things like, you know, particle beam technology, I remember something to do with capacitors. I remember even a Kevlar, he said, all of this stuff, you know, fiber optics, was a result of reverse engineering on UFOs.

It's very strange because now we're sitting in a world where it's much more possible to understand that we are reverse engineering UFOs. We have been for a long time. So it rings true to some degree that there would be derivative technologies. Maybe Colonel Corso was telling us the truth as a whistleblower all the way back then. What's your gut on that? I think he was telling the truth as he knows it. And I think that probably they did do a seating operation and put this out.

out there. Now, of course, the industries that are based on these multi-million dollar technologies and businesses, they all deny it. They said, oh, no, no, we did it all on our own. And, of course, you probably, their case is pretty strong, that they figured it out on their own. But I suspect that if they had something that seeded it and started them off down this road, they wouldn't admit it that it came from somewhere else. But Colonel Corso was a real guy. I know a lot of people found his story about this technology and this original source to be hard to believe. But I know in the course of Nids investigating his background, they found out he was a real guy who really had these amazing jobs and was a high-level trusted intelligence officer,

who had done some amazing things, had won high awards, had worked very closely with, during the Korean War. He worked for General MacArthur. It was the commander of the forces there. In World War II, he had been an intelligence chief in Rome and had helped sort of govern the country of Italy after World War II. He rescued something like 10,000 Jews, got him out of Rome and to Palestine, which is the newly created Jewish state. And he did a lot of amazing things. And in, I think it's 1961. Yeah, poor. In 1961, he becomes chief of what they called the foreign technology division for the Department of Defense. And boy, we didn't know how foreign this technology really was. But he said, there was a file cabinet there that had crash retrieval material.

materials from Roswell. Yeah. So when people say, you know, foreign technologies, division of the Pentagon, you know, of development, that's like anything foreign to us, right? So it could be a Russian spy plane. It could be something more exotic. But this is a guy in position to know. It's a guy in position to have his hands on this stuff. I found it also interesting that around his work, there was, who is it, Admiral? Starts with an H. His name. He was first. Hillencoder.

Hill encoder, first head of the CIA was always rumored to be part of this as well, somebody that he worked with. So it's like when you look at somebody's past through the lens of today, it's much more plausible that what he said in his book, The After Roswell, is true, that there are these developments that were gleaned from the reverse engineering of UFOs. So, man, that's what's so kind of incredible about the hearings that just happened with David Grush and Commander Fraber and Lieutenant Graves. Was that really open to Pandora's boxword. Now we have we have some questions we need answers to. Is it true what David Grush said? Is it true that there are these exploitation programs not only of hardware, but of biologicals?

I mean, that's the number one question. Who has it? Hands on. You and I have talked to people who are currently working in agencies that claim to have these experiences, hands on experiences. I mean, we are so close to getting that truth. I hope it can be public. Yeah, well, Corso, again, his career is documentable. It's not like he is a mystery man whose career path can't be documented. He's a real guy who had these amazing positions. As an intelligence officer, he had a distinguished career, he worked under MacArthur, he worked under this general Arthur Trudeau, who was the boss of that technology division in the Pentagon. Foreign technology is also the term that Wright Patterson has always used for their secret

projects there, which is kind of an interesting coincidence. So Corso really did have these jobs, and the case he makes in his book the day after Roswell, which didn't come out until 97, the 50th anniversary of the crash, is pretty strong one. And so we recorded an interview with him there in that RV in Florida, and I thought we could play a little bit of that, and then we'll get into some other things. The following is an interview with Philip J. Corso recorded in 1996 in Florida. You say you also had reports on bodies, on alien bodies? Yeah, that came from Walter Reed. Were they pretty, I mean, they definitely said not that these were genetic humans or something.

No, here's what, the report, the thing that I was mostly interested in in the report was the two lobes in the brain. There are two lobes there. And this movie showed part of that. They didn't know what they had, though. Right. There was two lobes in the brain, and there connected, and also the lid.

That's where I got the information on the extra lid, extra eyelid. And we figured that that extra eyelid was nothing more than something like our night viewing device, you know, filtered light. Did the actual autopsies get done at Walter Reed? They did this particular autopsy, the paper I had.

physically at Walter Reed? I don't know if it done physically there or not. I couldn't tell you. But the report came out of Walter Reed. The report came out of our laboratory. We financed that laboratory. There was a crash at the plane of St. Augustine. At the same time as Roswell or later?

Later. No, about the same time. And a lot of the fiber optics came from there. And there was that one that crashed there had an opening. And there was bodies there too. St. Augustine was galloped up in a hurry. Later, something mysterious happened. It disappeared.

But anyway, that's enough. of the story. You know all the material disappeared? The saucer's self. But anyway, that's... Oh, I don't know. I'll never add. Yeah.

That's... I mean, did you have... Quote, they come and take it back, or was it traded back? There was supposed to be a fire and explosion, but since it didn't exist, nobody could talk about it. You know, one of our greatest covers, I say, was the policy that says that UFO didn't exist. If ever it didn't exist, there was no crash. If there was no crash, there was no material. no material. Nobody can investigate us because there was no such thing. And we played that up.

We moved that ahead. The more the debunkers screamed, the more better we liked it. They're doing the disinformation for us. I got a question. I'm just, I don't know if you remember this or not, but did Colonel Corso ever talk about bodies from the Roswell crash? He did. He told me a story that he had seen a body. I'm trying to remember where it was. Fort Riley, Kansas, maybe. that it was in a hangar. And I'm trying to remember it. I haven't seen this material in a while, but I think it was at Fort Riley, Kansas,

in a hangar there is where he saw an alien body. He also told a story about being at White Sands, New Mexico, at that base, and being out in the desert and meeting an alien, and a live alien in a cave who gave him a message something to the effect of, you know, it's a new world if you can take it or if you can keep it, something like that. We should probably go to that clip and see if I can find where he, where he recounted that story personally.

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day. Hilton for this day. They must have been afraid of our radars because my encounter and my gold line was so. Would you shut your radars out? Tell me about that again. It was noisy last night. And stupidly, I made the eye of the answer, what's in it? What do you offer? I oppose in human terms.

Give me something. if you want me to do something. Right. And I said that in sub-human, so I didn't say what I'd offer. I said, what do you offer? I didn't say, what do you give me? What do I trade? Sure.

So what was the answer? A new world if you can take it. You can take it. What's he mean by that? I don't know for sure. Did he mean if we can take it for, is it too much for us or can we take it back? Here's what he looked like.

This is red. No, I thought this was a snake at first. So you could actually, you actually saw him in front of you. That's the guy I saw him. That's the guy I saw him. That's why I pulled a gun on him. It was a worthless gesture. What the hell of the 45 do?

Well, I don't know. I never fired. Although I had some scatter shot. What far away are you? The one. Distance between you and this being? About from here the front of the motor home. motor home. Well that's like eight, ten feet. The skin is scaling. Right. I'm I think at the skin is atomically alive so they can travel in space. We, see man can't

travel in space today. How long were you in contact? I mean, you're this is I say my two experiences didn't last more than if you say two or three minutes it was a lot. Now I haven't had any other experience and my only experience was in the goal, in New Mexico, not on any other place. But after you got this, a new world, if you can take it, then what happened? Did it just disappear, or did it get in the craft and take off?

I left. I left. I went out to my Jeep, got on my radio. I didn't say, I didn't tell the being that I do it. I'm out to my radio and got on. I called my command posts. And I told them, you get green time yet from, My side said, yes, they said, it's due come through any minute so we could fire again.

I told him, when it comes through, I told him, this is an order. Keep our radars down for 10 minutes. And I told him, I repeat the order to the captain, I told him. Keep our radar down for 10 minutes. I'm on my way. Then I get a call back on radio when I was on my way. It said, the C battery picked up a trajectory going 3,000 miles an hour. This must have him.

Let me see the tape. You know, you had these records from Walter Reed on the autopsies, and you talked about the fact they had this scaly skin that was put together in a certain fashion. Did they ever come to a conclusion like these were manufactured biological robots? The only conclusion was, I think, we all came to this together because of the the sex organs and the different organs in the rimper systems, lungs and stomach but they were, they were a clone. Now if you go back to the days of the Samarians, they call them Igis.

They say they were ferry drivers of what they are. The real ones out there in other ships. Now no one's ever explored to Samaria, Sikkin wrote this. Nobody's ever explored the Sumerian civilization. I think the key is there. They disappeared after a while. I think the Sumerian maybe were the other ship. And they tried to wipe out the human race, you know, in those days.

But anyway, you got to go back in history and see the Sumerians, what they say. And they called them Igis, IGIS. You think they were manufactured for space travel. or time travel or something. Well, I think they're manufactured as servants. Now, my theory is what do they want? Do they want a new race? Because one of the strangest things, as far as I'm concerned,

is on these mutations, they took the sex tubes. And the nearest thing to the human sex organ are cattle sex organs. And by the way, they cut those with a type of laser cutter was didn't even cut through the cells. Cut around the, yeah. Cut around the cells. That's not good.

How perfect it was. We have no such thing. A handheld cutter, laser, we have no such thing. Man, you have just this archive of never before seen. It was the first time that he ever talked on camera. And, you know, we've got a few clips of that here. But what was that like in that sometimes people tell you something to your mind? You're like, okay, I get it.

engineering, but I met an alien in a cave? Like, how, what does that do to your brain? Yeah, that stretches a little bit. You're wondering, okay, is this guy a kook? So, you know, leaving with Hal put off and Alexander, Colonel Alexander, we fly back, what do you make of that? Well, let's dig into his background, see what we can confirm, which is what John did. He went to some national archives in D.C. spent a couple of weeks putting a background report together. And then we told Robert Bigelow about this. He says, let's bring him out to Las Vegas. we did, a few weeks after we had gone to Florida. He comes out, meets with Nids folks, Dr. Jacques Valet flies in. We sit there in a room and they put Corso through his paces over a

course of about four or five hours. And again, I sat there and recorded not very well on this little kind of camera, and we got a lot of that footage so we can play some of that as well. The following clips are from a never-before-seen interview with Philip J. Corso taken in 1996 in Las Vegas, Nevada. Present in this interview with me were Robert Bigelow, Al Puthoff, Colonel John B. B. Alexander, and Jacques Ballet. Well, I picked up a trajectory sometime in the morning. What happened was this.

My boys called me and they said, we picked up something traveling pretty fast. We don't know the speed. We don't long time, but we're done the trajectory. And it came, it came, the boys told me, and the tape showed this. that the thing came this direction. It came this direction and fell. The trajectory looked like this. So I called White Sands.

I told them a white lion. Say, I lost an art cat. Did you pick up a trajectory? They said yes. For the game was trajectory, and it matched this one. Later on, I found out a home and it picked up some day. So when I picked up the trajectory, I called my pilot because I had a little airfield up there.

I had five airplanes. And there was a two-seater on the grass office. It was my private. So I called the pilot and we used to take Kaleeching and boys would go pick up all the used to go in it and wet it and roll it and we get like concrete. And that was our airfield. So I went out with a pilot and we looked down and we saw something shining. And Apollo asked me, what is it?

I told them to make one of the boosters. But I know it wasn't a booster. Because I'd seen boosters, the airplane. I used to fly around a lot out there. And White Sands knew I fooled around out there. Then I figured, I started bottoming me. I got to go out on the ground. So my command car was no good, and I don't take a Jeep.

So I called Ford Boots to send me up a command car. Remember those big command cars? And it was perfect for the desert. Because when I got the command car, they sent it right up. It took about three or four hours to get there. So I told my boys, boys I'm leaving. I'll be back a couple hours. So I took off in the command car, I driving myself.

And I took my gun, water bottle, electronic equipment, and a compass. And I took off. And this is a route that I took. Now, I don't know for exactly this far, but I passed Trinity site. It was south of Illinois. And I caught right across country in the distance. Because a big command car could do that.

I couldn't do it in the, sometimes in the jeep with those big wheels on that thing. And I cut straight across and I had the coordinates. I had a pretty good math. And when I looked to check the coordinates, I got new there. I got my bin off there and there was nothing there. I couldn't see anything.

I couldn't see anything. And I kept checking the corner of it. If I was the right place, then this damn thing appeared. And right away, I'm in the desert by myself. Am I seeing things? Is this a hallucination? an hallucination because I'm out here all by myself. 110 degrees was I still remember that day because I had this moment. Oh the damn thing appeared. Then I timed it I had my

wristwatch on. I think it was I had it in here. It was just a few minutes and disappeared again. And my way I started figuring what I am a little bit nutty. This must be an hallucination because these things don't happen. happened. Damn thing disappeared and appeared again. I figured I'm not going on and I stopped a piece from it about two or three hundred yards and I'm not going to do that damn thing. What if it appears over top of me? No one know what the hell happened to me. So then it disappeared and appeared again. So I got enough nerve to go on like I picked up a rock and thrown in there picked up two rocks and sagebrush and that took off again.

everything appeared to when disappear out and back out the room the rock was crushed and the sagebrush was flattened out I think well the thing has body then maybe I'm not dreaming because at that stage I still thought I was seeing anything and I'm telling you I might have been a combat officer and had medals but I'm a little bit of scared of that what the hell am I up against here what is this being all by yourself too what did I have a Lazi pistol 45 I figured that's a piece or something like that. So the next time it appeared I got enough nerve to grump up my hand on it. It was smooth and cold. And there I started to wonder it's 110 degrees out here. Was the sun getting? Metal thing can't be cool. My command car,

you got, I put your hand on the steering wheel. You don't want to stay out and that sun a little bit. And this thing was cold. Then I'm sitting there wondering if I'm I'm hallucinated and I better go back and all of once my compass start to spin and the instrument wasn't crazy. So I gunned a command car in reverse, took off in reverse, the motor died. And the thing started, it wasn't vibrated, started to shake something. And all of once, it went up like this, turned on its side and zoom. And by the way, there were two colors.

appear a blue and an orange. And when it, the way I described it like, yes, a bull. Take a bowl and where you blow up enlarge that and a boom behind it, half a bowl. The thing went in, sideways, this way, and went in that boom part and it seemed like the opening. They went in there, I saw two colors, and then I was standing there like a dummy and I was looking in the blue sky. There was nothing here. It just disappeared. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for

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I'd say it was, for an observation, it was till we're old, but I'm gone. I'd say, but maybe 30, 50 feet. And then configure the shape what would that? Just like a saucer trying two pipe pans out top each other. No dome or anything. At least I didn't see any dome or any bottle. And when it turned on its side, it didn't tilt like this. No, it turned on the side. Any sound associated with it? Was it? Any sound? No sound at all. Nothing. Quiet. So the 30 feet was like a diet.

diameter? Diameter. How about the height? It was just like two pipe pans. Now, the end, when I went I was laying on the side, I could reach up and touch the end of the saucer when I put my hand on it. How much of the saucer was above you when you touched it? It was laying something like this.

Was the top of it approximately your head? I could see the top. It was above my head, the other end of it. Did you have the seating at any time? that you could have got inside? No, no. Never in my mind. In fact, what was in my mind, get the hell out of here.

When it did take off, how close were you to it at that time? Oh, my car had stalled. I'd say two, 300 yards, maybe a couple hundred yards. Yeah. Because I got the command car in reverse. And it was the command car, I didn't get closer about 50 feet to it. I had walked up. I'd gunned my command car in reverse backwards, and then the engine stalled. Maybe electromagnet system might affect the engine, I don't know. But anyway, it

stalled. I thought maybe it was me, or hitting the gas and the gear shift wrong and stalled it. Maybe the thing stalled it, I don't know. And then just disappeared. And I made up my mind. I had orders on my desk for combat battalion, which I've ordered. all my life, I'm not going to jeopardize this by trying to tell them anything. They won't believe me anyway. They tell me to shut up. That's right. So I told me, I explained to me what I saw. So they both went through an explanation. The second one, the older phone, he said, you had tremendous experience. He said, that's more likely it was a time machine, was malfunctioning. And they had to correct it.

And then he told me that what he thought, the propulsion says, that the propulsion was, system was because of the way my equipment acted, he said it's a magnetic type propulsion system. He said, your instruments went wild. Yeah, just before it took off. He said they were trying to adjust their time sequence. So that's, and the Germans, they didn't say that I was, they thought that was one of Wilbur Smith said, you have experienced one of the great events of what happened in the world. I told, oh, I didn't think it was in a great event.

He said, well, you did, you did. And I told what Wilber Smith told me. But when I was Inspector General Seventh Army, Trudeau came to Germany. And Heidelberg sent for me to meet him at the airplane. He wanted to meet me. And I met him at the airplane. He was over there on some sort of inspection tour, Lieutenant General, and they thought out the red carpet.

He came with his wife. And the first time he'd seen me in uniform for years, that he didn't recognize me. Only recognized me, he stopped the reception line, came over. And his wife came over and I stood there. So he said, Phil, he said, I might be taken over R&D. You're coming with me. And I told him, naturally, I like to.

And he said, well, I'll send for you when I go back later. You know, when he became, he wasn't chief of R&D then. So I came back and they made me an air defense advisor to the Maryland National Guards, senior defense. That was the first time that the National Guard had had somebody with experience. I made them pass out Norahad and their other inspections. And I was defending the Washington area.

So then the letter came from the chief foreign personnel asking for my assignment to the Pentagon. So the agent general of the state, a record called me, Major General, he was an agent general of the state of Maryland. He said, Colonel, he said, I got an order here, your son. See, he had to release me.

One says a job like that, they can't just pull you. I think I just can't pull you. You're subject to the whims of the state action in general. So he said, I told, well, this is like General Trudeau, my old boss, he wants me back, he's an arundian, so general record was pretty night. He was an old fellow, he was over 80.

And he told me, he said, I won't stand in your way. Call the General and tell him, I'll release you tomorrow. I walked in Trudeau's all. office, saluted him. He looked up. He said, you board, Phil? He said, only instructions he ever gave me. He said, watch things for me, Phil. The rest don't understand. And that was the only orders he ever gave me. Watch things for him. The rest don't understand. I ended up with nine clearances. They're both top secret. Did you have discussions, though, as, as you were doling out this material? All of time. You ever discussed the implications?

of what it was. I went into those office and there's two men there. And he said, we can talk freely with these two men. Phil. They were from North American Rockwell. And this thing here, two men came in from North Carolina American Rockwell and they were given this. Do they know where it came from?

It came in from my father. Yeah, but did the Rockwell people where they told, we didn't tell them. We let them like Bell Labs. They let them think. They thought that the ships we stole from the Russians. We let them think that. What the hell was, I was all right. Let them think it, just so they have it and do some work.

They did a good job. Wasn't there a potential problem if you gave them potentially advanced material, told them a Soviet, that they would say, oops, the Soviets are way ahead of us? Then we would watch it. A lot of times it was my job to go to see how it was coming. I'd go to the companies. North American, TRW, Westinghouse, GE, when we listed as number one, crooked.

We have listed contractors reliable, not crooked they were. They never knew we had this. By the military organization, in the early 50s, with CIC answer operationally to the G2. They didn't operate on their own. When they got that G4 at Roswell, A CIC man that disappeared.

He had to hand that to G2, his operational chief. G2 would pass it to the Pentagon to G2 in the Pentagon. Intelligence had no R&D function. So they would pass it to R&D. In those days, R&D was under logistics. Our logistics, secondary mission. No one cared about. Logistics was logistics.

It wasn't R&D. Yet it was assigned to R&D. R&D, who was signed to that. In 1959, Trudeau changed it all over it. All R&D put under one head for moments in all those places, the universities, the laboratories and put them under one head, one chief. And all this stuff was inherited that when he created for me the special, the foreign technology division, he created that to give us a focal point where all foreign developments would come in to They'd all come into me.

I not only mean space, but I'm talking about the depleted uranium, helicopter army, anti-aircraft stuff from South Africa, the toll from France, those all would come into me. And also, anything like the supply saucer stuff would all come in, would come in to me. Other than that first batch, was there more? No. I never got anything more. first batch. Were there reports in the files from when they had originally been looked at? Somebody had done something with them because there's reports in there. Do you

remember which labs had written reports? The labs weren't ours in the station. And I remember what all the Reed told me and Lincoln Lab told me. He said, do you remember your instructions were always not to keep any copies, to send everything back? And they had to, I don't know, I don't That's why they couldn't find anything at Lincoln. They said, your poor is where to give everything back. And those were our entire instructions. What this would cause, all weapons would be obsolete.

You ever have a guess about where they were from? Well, we tried to, but we never came up with any different where they were from. It's a time machine. Yeah, it could be us. It has the worst possibility. That's the worst one. Did you ever feel like you had to brief somebody else in the political center and potential danger? Or did you just carefully try to prepare?

No. I would never brief. Oh, I did talk about this, for 30, was Joe McCormick, because we were pretty close friends. After Kennedy died and he was number two. I don't think Jacques has heard the story about the Russian base, what happened to that Russian base? And I'm curious about how the information came to you. CIA and the intercept.

You know, we had a system was watching could localize all atomic detonations. And that was part of it. And the other was the CIA report. Somewhere in my papers, I have a copy of CIA reports. And that happens. And there was 200 scientists killed. So they were lying to you. There was, there were two ways, I say, CIA got the report and the atomic monitoring that we had worldwide.

And did the report contain an explanation about what caused the explosion? No one knew. There was UFO activity in the area before that. So in the files that you had, there was a report on an autopsy? Yeah. See, in the Wal-Ree laboratory, there was a UFO activity. The only Reed Laboratory was ours. We financed it. It's all gar, indeed. It was our laboratory. It wasn't bog of all of all reasons. We financed the thing. Yeah. Still there.

Is there still there? I don't know if it's still there. Were there photos with this report? No. Oh, I had one photo, but it was pretty messed up. You can tell much from it. Of an alien body? It was pretty messed up. They preserve, any symptoms, they must have preserved. Tissues simple. I really don't know. Genetic or children. I don't think maybe the Air Force did.

I don't think the Army ever did. I never saw a report on any preservation of anything like that. Maybe they did, but I never saw any. Okay, well, what was reported in the autopsy? Well, the thing in the RMSA was the lip gland part and digestive system, which didn't exist. And the brain loop was number one interesting. in this movie by the way, when they open up the brain,

they show the lobe, which should look close enough. And the sex organs were all, they called it entropoid. No atrophied, lack of use. Right? Yeah, atrophy. Atrophied. Atrophied. A, N-T-R-O-B-H-R-P-H-I-E-E-N-A-T-R-E-E.

There were lack of use. Fligereans were almost nonexistent. So these are the things that really interested me. That's where I saw that glove, you know, with the suction cups on. That was the glove. Yeah, that was, well, that was no fingers. They only had four fingers on. And now that was unusual.

No thumb. I don't know how they used at that. But they disappeared. Naturally, nothing could be said because these things didn't exist as far as the government was concerned. There were no talk about what happened. Couldn't say that UFO was gone or boys were gone because, National polity was that they didn't exist. How can you talk, how can something be burned up in an explosion and fire when it didn't exist?

Same way we played the game. We played the same game. R&D, we played a game. Nobody can investigate, because we can investigate something that doesn't exist. To put out an order, cover all it, what the hell they're going to put out in order to cover? They don't know what the hell would cover. I don't think there was any cover up. I couldn't trace one. I never knew one. I had all the clearances.

the clearances I was in the spoke business our operation we don't want we had good reason not to put out not only that didn't we put it out but we didn't have any PR function we wanted to put it out it wasn't our job to put things like this out and we don't want to do it anyway we didn't cover it up we want to give it to industry in American people but it couldn't be done with the climate of opinion the way things were with a political situation and all the debunkers and all the skeptic. This UFO problem has never been handled right.

Never have. There hasn't been a real intelligence study on UFOs that bring in all the factors. If you would tell me right now, set up a plan to cover up the UFO thing. What the hell would I write? How would I approach it? and what would I say to cover up? Well, what's Smith said?

Don't answer any questions because you don't have the answers. So what are they going to cover? Okay, well then... There never has been a study made of it. For our going forward then, it would actually be nice to know that there isn't some dedicated group of people who do not want to get information out.

So if that's the case, then it ought to be possible for us to come up with a plan to help get information. out or channel information out or channeled out technological let's say that there's a group like this in here in my day okay and you came up to us you wouldn't have gotten anything we weren't talking to protect ourselves not because of you or because of him or because of him but the thing was we don't even talk about it we go ahead and do our job because we got to cover our tracks if we want to operate

100%. So we can't let anybody know or talk about this thing. So that was a second recording that you did with Colonel Corso. Man, I'm glad that you picked up that camera, even if it's shitty footage. You know, that's so cool to get that testimony documented. Yeah. And, you know, again, I think some of the claims seem to stretch the bounds of reality. You know, they went pretty far. It's hard to. It would be hard under the best of circumstances, proved beyond a reasonable doubt that fiber optics came from, inspired by these strange materials that were picked up in the desert outside Roswell, New Mexico. But that's what he says.

Did Colonel Corso have to get permission in any way to talk about the things that he did in his book? He just went for it. He just went for it. Yeah. You know, I think he had, as I recall, he had a relationship with Strom Thurmond, who had served in the U.S. Senate longer than anybody, I think. And in fact, Strom Thurman originally wrote the forward to. his book. Now, after his Strom Thurman's staff realized, holy cow, this is a UFO book, they wanted to withdraw it, but the deed had been done already. The following year is when the Roswell book came out, the day after Roswell, it's on the 50th anniversary. It was a huge bestseller. And as a part of that, Corso did other interviews with other media. And he came back to Las Vegas and met with me,

and we did another interview for KLESTV that's all over the internet now, but maybe we can play a little chunk of it. I didn't told you, I think, that I was not interested in seeing UFOs. I was all interested in those UFOs. Anyone familiar with UFO lore will recognize at least some of what Phil Korso says. Reports of crashed saucers, recovered alien bodies, a government cover-up. But in 50 years of UFO controversy, no one of his rank or stature has ever publicly proclaimed this level of insolns. knowledge. Corso was an intelligence officer inside the Eisenhower White House assigned to the

National Security Council. He also served as Inspector General of the 7th Army and commanded the first nuclear battalion in Germany. His credentials are impeccable, his record spotless, but did he really handle wreckage from a flying saucer? They came from a flying saucer. How do you know that? Because they were marked in the fouls as coming from New Mexico. Roswell. Yes, Roswell. Roswell, of course, is the most famous alleged UFO crash site in history, a story which the Air Force has tried to bury once and for all. Corso says that Army Research and Development not only had pieces of wreckage in its possession, but also reports and photos from an autopsy of an alien cadaver.

I had the reports. See, the Walter Reed, the laboratory in Waller Reed, was our laboratory. We financed it. He was part of the guidance system, or it, whatever it is, because it has no sex argument. It was part of the guide system. That's why we found. failed in propulsion. Corso says the Army kept the material and body's secret because of potential enemies within the U.S. government, interests which might take over the program and destroy the reputations of those involved. He thinks the secrets are still being kept, but doesn't know by whom.

Twice in the past few years, Corso has testified before Congress concerning secret activities within the Eisenhower White House. He's been thoroughly checked out and his information confirmed. But his most sensational allegation is one which American indistening. isn't going to like at all. Corso says the Army spoon-fed recovered alien technology to American industry, resulting in some of our greatest technological advances.

The number one was the integrated circuit. Number two, in importance, was laser, because I had some laser instruments also. Then fiber optics. Such sensational claims have invited harsh criticism, but Corso doesn't mind. He names others who knew what he knows, and it's an exclusive club, he says.

General Marshall, General Trudeau, General MacArthur, Von Braun, Albert, Wilbur Smith from the... That's the only good company. That's a company I'd rather be in with those coops. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd. But too often, life gets busy, or the price holds you back. Price Line is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game. live. Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit priceline.com. Actual prices may vary. Limited time offer. So we're kind of living in a different

world now where we have to look back at what people told us before. You know, it dawns on me that here's a guy saying reverse engineering of UFOs was real. What happened in Roswell was real. he's a high-ranking military guy. He just goes for it and puts this out. You wonder if he would seed his own story with things that are a little bit unbelievable as a way to kind of take the heat off of him, like the fact that he said he met a live alien on his own.

Or, I mean, who am I to judge? Maybe the guy is a stand-up individual who's telling the truth. I don't know, man. Remember, he drew me a picture. That first meeting in Florida in that RV, he drew me a picture of the alien that he said he meant.

and I think I've still got that image somewhere. And, you know, parts of what he said really were tough to swallow. And it was much different from the version he had first given to me. He gave me an outline of the story he wanted to tell that he had written himself when we were talking about doing a book together. And it was a much more modest telling of the story than the one that eventually came out. You know, that was one of the criticisms of Corsos that came out after the book, is that he seems to place himself at the center of every major event of the 20th century.

You know, it's a lot of key people. Well, the fact is, he was with many of the biggest events of the 20th century, right there in the thick of things with some of the main people who shaped that century. Right. Yeah, I mean, you wonder if the kind of fish gets bigger with each telling of the story with some of this stuff, but is the core of it true? And again, I just keep going back to the physical hardware. You know, if we have been told directly from people that as they are,

working on this technology about every 10 years, they wheel it back out and they try to see if our material science has caught up to replicate any of it. So it makes sense to me that he would be one of these original whistleblowers. And this is a guy we know was a whistleblower when it came to prisoners of war. He's got a great military career. I mean, he just doesn't seem like a liar, right? I don't think so. That wasn't my impression. I think that the story did get a lot bigger in the retelling of it five years after I first met him. But the first. But the core of it is really interesting. He was at the places that he would have needed to be to see the stuff that he claims to have seen. You know, the story about reverse engineering of technology,

we know that there is a lack of progress on the propulsion technology. We haven't been able to reproduce anti-gravity mechanisms through using Earth technology or Earth materials. But that doesn't mean we haven't made breakthroughs on other stuff that may have come from the Roswell Records or other crashes. Yeah, even like, you know, the idea of artificial intelligence, you know, there are some people that believe that as we have kind of increased our technical knowledge, that we've gained a lot of information from these reverse engineering. But my question is more, if we had a program that specifically deals with propulsion and the power source like Lazar talked about, Project Galileo, Lazare also said that there are two other programs that he heard about,

a project sidekick, which was a weaponization program, a laser weaponization program. And then he talked about Project, was it looking glass? Looking glass. And looking glass was about the lensing of gravity, you know, space time differentials, that kind of thing. And I think the power and propulsion was Project Galileo, if I remember. So that's what Bob said. You have to imagine, he also said there were other programs he was sure that dealt with language or dealt with different aspects, the biological.

matter. You have to imagine if you have a craft and that craft has biologicals that you'd have a whole slew of different types of programs, from language to culture to, I don't know, to everything, you'd have to imagine that. Yeah, and let's say your Bell Labs, do you want to say, this wasn't our idea. We got the idea from some alien stuff that some colonel from the army dropped off on our doorstep. Right. No, because these patents and technologies that developed from that, or developed are worth billions and billions a dollar. And also, if you're given actual materials that our military recovered,

and there's like, you can't talk about how we gave these to you what's recovered, but anything you make from it, you can take credit for. So that's a whole thing other than financials. Like, if you want to keep that secrecy in place, just like how that was all built around the atomic programs, then you're going to keep your mouth shut

because that was the deal to begin with, right? Remember in an earlier show, we talked about the Russians. And I know I got a lot of crap about this comment, but I had been told by people that we both know, who were in a position to know, that they suspect that the Russians had developed some kind of a weapon based on their recovered alien technology, their crash retrieval program, reverse engineering, that there's some kind of a laser beam type weapon that they have been dying to employ, which might explain some of the provocative encounters we've had with Russian warplains.

And I know that that's a lot to swallow. And I can't prove it conclusively, but that's what we were told by people who have told us other things that we have been able to verify. Well, we know somebody that worked on a Russian downcraft on a laser program from if we're speaking plainly. And if that's true, that connection between Russia and the United States where we're both kind of fighting for this technology, I thought it was counterintuitive. But even when Bob Lazar was working out at S4, he talked. talked about this partnership between Russia and the U.S. And he said at some point that ended. At some point there was some revelation that the U.S. had and they kicked out the Russian

counterparts. Now, I thought that was so weird. But when I went and investigated a bunch of people that were looking into cold fusion before it was called cold fusion, low nuclear energy reaction is what the old timers who worked on it, what they would call it. So a lot of these guys were working on that technology before it even had a name. they all talked to me about UFOs as well. And one thing that really struck me after hearing the Lazar story, they would tell me how

in their laboratories there was always a phone and that phone connected directly to Russia and their counterparts in Russia. It's super counterintuitive because some of this is during the Cold War. How would scientists from two rival countries in some kind of global, you know, war basically at the time, how are they communicating on scientific level? but it turns out it wasn't just true about UFOs. It was true about things like cold fusion. So once I heard that from people that were in those laboratories,

you know, back in the day, that made a lot more sense to me that was going on. It's still counterintuitive, but it's just funny. You find that in real... I was just thinking, you know, we were talking about whether to jump into the Corso topic or not, and I think with the reverse engineering crash saucers being a front burner issue,

that maybe folks should revisit this case and look at the book, revisit the interviews that Corso has done. You know, now that we know that Arrow is really digging into this stuff, I'm sure they'll want to know if Corso was what he claimed and whether he is telling the truth or not, and they'll really get to the bottom of it, right? Some people, I don't know if they know when you're being sarcastic.

You say, Arrow is really digging into this. Yeah, Arrow does not seem to be doing what the public wants them to do, which is transparency on the issue. We have seen recently some drops or some archives from different federal agencies. That's great. But the core of the question remains. Have we been reverse? I know, we know what we believe to be the answer, but is it publicly going to be said that we have been reverse engineering, non-human technology?

Hell no, they're not going to say that. I mean, you know, again, I'm a glass half-empty guy. And I've been saying for a long time on this program and in other formats that the closer we get to the goodies, the harder the pushback is going to become. We're seeing it right now. It's unfolding right now in D.C. the pushback against Grush and the other whistleblowers, the pushback on Congress, whether or not there are going to be future hearings or not. We hear conflicting stories about that, but it seems like there are some pretty strong statements about and characterizations of Grush, for example, someone who supposedly knows nothing about what they're saying to Congress. We're seeing it in real time, the pushback right now. Heavy-duty lobbying behind the scenes by the aerospace giants and the companies that give out millions of dollars and campaign contributions, it's happening right now.

And, well, we know that there has been a handful of more people that have submitted their statements and their testimony to the intelligence community inspector general and that that has been officially done. They have officially made those. Now, is that going to seep out into the public? Are we going to have that as a public conversation? They're doing an investigation right now.

The ICIG is doing an investigation on the claims from these people who, by the way, we've talked with, they've firsthand direct knowledge when it comes to working on these programs. That's what everybody wants to hear. They want to have somebody stand up there in front of Congress and there will be more hearings come hell or high water. There will be, you know, there's some pit bulls in Congress for us.

So here's the deal. Are we going to see somebody standing there, sitting there, and saying, I worked on an alien spacecraft. You know, people that are not in the public eye, people that nobody knows their name. Are we going to see that? I think we are. Well, I hope so.

And we know people who are willing to do that. Right. But they're having second thoughts right now because of some of the statements that have been made by our leaders. Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick saying, I've seen no credible evidence of ET technology or anything beyond the laws of physics. We know what kind of testimony he's received. We know he's got some very specific information about places, exact buildings where this stuff is stashed. Has he gone there to look for it? Because I don't get the feeling that he has.

And I know, we know the effect. that that's had on some of these whistleblowers who are standing by ready to put their lives and careers and reputations on the line by saying what they know about these reverse engineering programs and they're hearing this from the guy who's in charge of the Arrow program, it's not something that builds a lot of confidence.

Yeah, and to the best of my knowledge and how I understand it is there are some, I guess you say defense contractors that have parts or elements of a craft, certain things that are just separated to look at. But there are other ones like Lockheed that allegedly have a full craft from a known, from a known craft downing or a known crash retrieval. If that information gets out, there's going to be a lot of eyes on Lockheed.

Now, the way this works, and I'm going to go back to a story that I've told, I think it was on the Rogan podcast was there was a guy working on semiconductors or superconductors or something like that. this was in the 70s. All he got was an item and it was put in front of him and it was like, hey, try to work on this, try to tell me no company he know was making these like this. It was almost 100% efficient. No markings on it, no nothing.

Again, a guy not ready to break from the full, but I got it all documented. So when I get the thumbs up, that story's coming out. There's a lot of people like that. There's another case that you and I are working on that is not, we haven't talked about yet. But there was an individual who is renowned for reverse engineering in other fields, and there was an object that apparently he saw. And he was taken in. I don't want to give too many details. I'm still looking to this. But he was taken in and he was shown something for, I think, a couple of days and was unable to be helpful in any way because the propulsion system, the energy

source of this was nothing that in his field he would know about. So you hear this. You hear this that there are individuals pulled out of nowhere, just because they're good at something. Like, I don't know, a guy that makes rocket cars and works at Los Alamos. You know, he's pulled into some weird program for a very short amount of time, just kind of given the overview, set to work on it, and then, bam, they're out, never hear from it again. That's what happened to the superconductor or supercapacitor guys. Like, he never got to hear about it again. So they've got these questions that linger for decades. What did I see? Where is that from? There's not many options. Well, we know that the Manhattan Project worked with stope pipes.

And people were working a little slices of that project and had no idea how it fit into the bigger picture. So that really does happen. It is a way to move forward on some of these exotic technologies. Colonel Corso tells us that that's exactly what happened with multiple technologies that he helped seed into private industry. It'd be nice if there's a fresh new look into some of his allegations. Right. And I guess if you're, you know, people, we all have to kind of learn how this works, but if something's like top secret, that's great. but there's compartmentalized special access.

So even if you have the right clearance, if you are not part of that, they call it a bigot list. I don't know exactly what that word means, but a special list of people that can look into it. And we've heard that people are denied access all the time, even if they're investigating this stuff. So look, it keeps secrets,

and that's probably generated from the atomic program. We wanted to protect this secret at all cost so that architecture that was put in place during the atomic era, I think is the same architecture that's hiding the UFO truth to people. Well, big secrets can be kept. Big secrets are being kept. It's our job to try to expose them.

It is. Thanks, man. Never has so few, had so much to tell, but could say so little. Following this in a webinar, the presentation of Jeremy Corbelle, George Knapp,

Dark Course Entertainment, and Cadence 13 Studios. Bill Lamow for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows.