WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - The New UFO Whistleblower Waiver - 20 Questions The Government Wouldn’t Answer

Episode Date: September 18, 2026

The government says it has opened a protected lane for UAP whistleblowers. But what does that protection actually mean? Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp examine the new PURSUE UAP waiver and the questions left unanswered about who runs the program, what protections witnesses receive, whether Congress gets the information, and whether anything disclosed through the process can ever reach the public. After WEAPONIZED submitted more than 20 questions, a War Department official responded that there was nothing to provide beyond the original announcement and referred additional questions to the White House. The discussion expands into the risks faced by military and intelligence whistleblowers, previous experiences with AARO and ODNI, alleged legacy UAP programs, and a basic contradiction at the heart of the disclosure debate: if the government already knows where these programs are, why does it need whistleblowers to rediscover them? Jeremy and George also discuss the growing speculation surrounding a possible presidential UFO announcement, what they heard at Phenomecon in Utah, and why George believes the deeper mystery may ultimately be less about recovered hardware and more about the people who claim direct encounters with the phenomenon. Check out Phenomecon at https://Phenomecon.net GOT A TIP? Leave a message for us at [phone] Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop.Fourthwall.com MAIN : https://YouTube.com/@JeremyCorbell CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WEAPONIZEDclips MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here : BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA⁠⁠⁠⁠ HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A⁠⁠⁠⁠ PATIENT SEVENTEEN ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://WeaponizedPodcast.com⁠ ••• WEAPONED is produced by Michael Lazovsky https://MichaelLazovsky.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is back. Every game, every weekend, Draft King's Sportsbook has you covered. Every snap matters. Every comeback can shift the game. And every fourth quarter moment can change everything. Follow the action with Draft Kings, the number one sports book for live betting.

Built to keep up with the speed of sports, built with Canadian sports fans in mind. Draft Kings brings the action together in one easy-to-use app. Follow the biggest matchups, build your parlays, and explore live betting markets as the game develops. So you can focus on the first. football and enjoy the action with confidence.

Download the Draft Kings app today and see what everyone is talking about. Draft Kings, the number one sports book for live betting. In partnership with Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call connects Ontario. 1866-531-260-19 and over. Physically present in Ontario. Eligibility and restrictions apply. See Draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details.

Please play responsibly. Number one sports book for live betting based on available live market data. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype.

While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. For years, we've heard the same version of, I know things, but I can't talk about it because of my NDAs. So the government is now saying there is a protected lane where certain people can talk, and that could be significant. We asked basic questions, like, you know, what protections does this provide? You know, what anti-retaliation protections would apply. I mean, the biggest question for me is, who runs pursue? It doesn't say exactly how much protection is involved.

It doesn't say they can publicly talk about this at all. Up into the minute, we really didn't get a substantive response, but we did. This is weaponized. I'm George Knapp, you're in Las Vegas, joined by my friend and colleague Jeremy Corbelle. Jeremy, how's it going? Seems like I just saw you recently. Yeah, man, it's nice. It's nice to be home, but it was good to be on the road with you and go participate in something cool. We went to Phenomicon, which is this annual event that's held in Vernal, Utah, up in Skinwalker Territory. 30 years ago, of course, this spring was when the ranch was first put on my personal radar.

That's when Robert Bigelow bought the property, sent his NID's team there to begin their investigation. And it's an investigation that I believe has changed the world and the world of uphology and the possibility of disclosure in ways that are undeniable and irreversible. It changed how we all look at the UFO topic and led directly, I think, to the creation of the largest acknowledged government-funded UFO paranormal investigation in the history of this country, ASAP, the DIA's ASAP program. Without ASAP, there's no ATIP. Without ATIP, there's no New York Times story, there's no investigation of the TICTAC, there's no UAP task force, there's no congressional hearings behind closed doors, no congressional

hearings in public, maybe some of those things would have happened. Maybe Jay Stratton would have ended up running an investigation. But in this particular timeline and this particular sliver of the multiverse where you and I all live, that's the way it happened, is it started because of what happened at Skinwalker Ranch. Also, there wouldn't have been an arrow. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Thanks, guys. So if you've been watching weaponizing kind of the work that George and I've been doing for a while, you know, we have been actively trying to get people out to the public. from an embryonic stage when a whistleblower or witness comes to us, it can take years to see do they even want to come forward.

I had a call last week from a 23 years in intelligence individual with one year left to go, and I'm like, hang up the phone, stop talking to journalists. There's a lot of people out there that should be heard from the American public, you know, in open congressional settings. We've tried to provide in congressional settings, things like footage, and that kind of thing. It can be an uphill battle, but it is working, and people have gone from the beginning all the way forward. It took years to get people like Matthew Brown, Dylan Borland, Jeff Nusitelli, who's here. That was pretty quick. He's like, I can't wait,

let's go. He was like ready to talk. He's somewhere in here. We'll find him. And then David Grush as well. It wasn't an overnight thing. So we're going to keep pushing as much as we can, not so that everybody can report back to the intelligence agencies, a lot of what's happening. You know, we're kind of conduits for that. Do you want to talk to the FBI? Sometimes people do, but we would prefer if you, the American public, like us, get to hear these accounts, and if people got evidence even better.

So I'm optimistic, unlike George often. We've made a lot of progress. Just look at the world we're living in now when it comes at least to UAP and UFO. It's a really cool event. It's one of the most fun UFO conferences in the world. Very good vibe to the whole thing. Bridget, the lady it puts it all together for the government up there. It's a government-funded pro-tourism kind of an event. Brings a lot of people to those little towns, fills every hotel

room, fills every restaurant. It's a good event for the local economy. And I think it's a good event for the people interested in weird topics. And the theme this year was disclosure, which, you know, you and I had a thing or two to say about that. But there were a lot of great, rather really great speakers, including, at least for me, the highlight was Jay Stratton, who's, you know, he was the head of the UAP task force. Before that, he was involved in the creation of ATIP, and before that he was an integral part in the creation of AASAP, the largest acknowledged government-funded UFO program in history. He's written a book about all those experiences, as well as personal experiences, called Out of the Shadows coming out soon. But he gave us really an insight into his character.

His presentation was on Friday, 9-11, and it involved his own experience with 9-11. He was at the Pentagon on 9-11 when it was hit by that plane. Yeah, that was, and it was cool to see him, you know, get up and talk because now, you know, he's written this book, and he's going to be kind of coming out more, and I'm sure he's going to have a lot to say, you know, I trust Jay, trust what he has to say, and it was cool to get a glimpse of it. one of the things he said, George, was really cool, talked about active FBI investigations at two separate locations that are similar to Skin Walker Ranch. He said boots on the ground. And I kind of heard a little bit about that, but I don't know specifically where he's talking about,

but it's good to know that there are FBI and Department of Justice doing an investigation on places that have, I guess, high activity of the phenomenon. We also got to see Jay later at the end of the whole conference when he was on stage with his pal, Travis Taylor, with Micah Hanks and some other guys who are all part of a band. We used to call him Hitchhiker the band, but I guess they've changed it to the hitchhiker effect. And the crowd went wild and everybody was dressed in alien costumes, not us, but they put on a heck of a show. I mean, I think people will be blown away when they see Travis Taylor as the lead vocalist singing these hardcore rock songs. I heard them sing a Green Day song, which I did not expect to hear.

And it was a lot of fun. Yeah, that was cool, man. They were rocking out. You know, people that are involved in this subject are complete human beings and they have other interests. And I saw, you know, Micah Hanks was like shredding on the guitar. That was unique, man. That was really cool to see everybody play together. Like you said, Travis and Jay and Micah and Micah's brother, a bunch of people.

It was cool. I'm like going to those things. Yeah, it was fun. And that is my last UFO conference. I told you before, I didn't want to tell anybody else. You'll recall at the beginning of this year, I said, I'm not doing these things anymore. I've done my duty. I'm not going anymore.

And then suddenly we did three of them. Yeah. Somehow talked into it. But there were three good ones, McMinnville, UFO Fest, and then contact in the desert and end with this. But I am bowing out and allowing younger people to go ahead and take over that stuff. I'm not a good traveler, as you saw. The return of the travel curse did hit there when we started out in Vernal, stuck there for a while, had to make a mad dash across this gigantic airport in Denver.

And, of course, eventually my luggage did get here. It was later, but it did get here. So that's a good thing. It was at least failed. Yeah, no, we've traveled a lot together, and the curse is real. You do have a travel curse. I'm really good, usually, at getting around it. The bag didn't magically show up.

I was calling everybody like I was the FBI making sure to track your bag. So look, it's noted that you said that's the last thing you're talking at so everybody can understand. That's the last public thing you're doing. But we'll see what happens, man. Every year brings new moments. This year, we thought it was important to bring some of the whistleblowers forward, right? Give them a sense of protection.

We had developed these relationships. So let's bring some of them forward. in a public way. And now they're out there talking and it's really good. So we'll see what happens in the following year. But it is noted that you said that's your last. Yeah. And of course, whistleblowers was a high priority. There was a lot of buzz going on because of development. So at the past week while we were traveling a little bit. And I think you're the guy to bring us up to date on what this new declaration, this new order that's been issued via pursue, what it means for witnesses and whistleblowers and whether or not they're secure. Does this now mean they can come

forward and spill the beans? Yeah. Look, for years, we've heard the same version of, I know things, but I can't talk about it because of my NDAs or access agreements from SAPs, you know, special access programs. So we've heard that a bunch publicly. And the hope is that this administration is working towards the transparency where people can come forward legally and provide information. So the government is now saying there is a protected lane where certain people can talk and that could be significant. We shouldn't minimize it.

But before, you know, before we kind of get into what that is and what the pursue waiver by the Department of War is, I just want to let people know. I mean, the minute this came out and was public, you know, I saw the opportunity. I was like, George and I got to find out answers. We've got 20 questions. Let's play a game. So we sent a formal request. And, you know, when journalists submit this and it's through official channels, we're literally, it's just, you and I are asking 20 questions that the public will want to know the answers to.

And it's sometimes it's like pulling teeth. It's hard to get answers. We ask basic questions, like, you know, what protections does this provide? you know, what anti-retaliation protections would apply. I mean, the biggest question for me is who runs pursue? Do they have investigative authority, but like who's actually running it? Like if I have somebody that comes to me from the intelligence community and says, I have this piece of information, who do you even direct them to? And this waiver isn't specific yet for the intelligence community.

it's a tough, but it doesn't give a lot of confidence to some of the whistleblowers. A whistleblower protected system should not require whistleblowers to guess whether they're protected. So we send in these questions really quick, actually, within the first couple hours of this announcement. And they did confirm receipt. I called twice, talked with a really nice individual back there, just kind of fighting to help get this scene. that we were going to report on this. So they, you know, they confirmed that they received it. And up into the minute, we really didn't get a substantive response.

But we did. At like the last second, I wouldn't say it was substantive, but we did get a response. And all I'm allowed to say is that apparently all I'm allowed to say is that it's from a war department official. And the response is. We have nothing to provide beyond the. announcement itself and refer you to the White House for additional information on this and pursue. So 20 questions didn't get answered, George. I'm just shocked. I'm blown away by that. They didn't answer the questions. I'll be doing. They passed the buck. Well, that's not encouraging.

If I were a whistleblower, I would not suddenly think, gosh, I'd better go tell everything I know. You know, and it doesn't say exactly how much protection is involved. It doesn't exactly say that they can, it doesn't say they can publicly talk about this at all, does it? No, I think that's like a big misinterpretation of this. This is not something where there's this mandate where people can say, go on the news and talk about classified information. In fact, this is something that has already existed before. This is saying you can go within our system. of government and, you know, what they're saying that you can come forward and give, you know,

classified information. And it's very dubious because they won't answer any of the questions to journalists. But no, this is not for public. Now, we've seen this before. We know that Arrow had the ability to intake, deal with whistleblowers, and do investigation. But we saw how that turned out. And we saw the loss of confidence over the years. People would gripe about it all the time to us that they went through it.

They tried their best and they were brushed off or there was no investigation afterwards. So the question is, is this different? You know, is pursue just a rebranding of Arrow or is it a real attempt to gain this information? Now, why do they even need whistleblowers? This is something that frustrates me and I talked a little bit with our lawyer about it. Does ODNI, does the Department of War really need whistleblowers coming in and identifying some of these programs to them when they themselves already have the ability to ask about them and investigate this. So the answer is kind of ambiguous because if it's illegal and they don't know about it,

sure, they need a tip from these whistleblowers coming in. But it also just feels like, again, like circular reporting. It seems like they want to bring people in, get information, but none of that is guaranteed to come out to the public. That's why whistleblowers take non-traditional means sometimes to get information out to the best of their ability. Also, my understanding of it is that this order applies to Department of War, meaning military people, and military contractors, but does not apply to the intelligence community. And I raised that distinction for a very obvious reason.

We've been talking about, for example, the attempts by Robert Bigelow to negotiate himself a seat at the table, talking to Lockheed Martin about a deal that would transfer certain materials from Lockheed, that they've been stashed away for a long time, over to Bigelow Aerospace during the OSAP program. Well, that was killed by the CIA, meaning CIA was the contractor who was dealing with Lockheed. Now, the Department of Defense, of course, has all kinds of contracts with Lockheed and with other big aerospace companies, but this particular slice of the pie was an intelligence agency. And so a whistleblower who had knowledge of that material and that program and what was going on, the proposed change, doesn't seem like this order would apply to them.

Right. The intelligence community coverage is something that they've said that they're working on. It would be a separate thing. But again, are you giving confidence to some of these people who have already tested the process and been burned right and left about it? You know, I'm not sure that this is the way to do business. I am encouraged that there is these public offerings that, hey, people can come forward. At least it starts where we can start asking the right questions, but I haven't talked to whistleblowers who feel confident at all. And a lot of people, by the way, they have already given testimony to Arrow. They've identified locations of holdings of these alleged NHI materials.

they have given full, full disclosures to the inspector general of the intelligence community. And so I'm just, I'm not sure if this is just a similar type of announcement that's just replicating something that has already been in place or if there's something new behind it. If we don't get our 20 questions answered, if they don't start answering journalists on this, then, you know, we're never going to know. It doesn't give any confidence. Yeah, I mean, if I were a whistleblower and I'd seen this stuff, had hands. on experience, I'm not coming forward from any of these assurances that have been given in various ways. You know, we've seen what happens. We know what Arrow did to witnesses and whistleblowers. They just basically dumped all over them, said they were all grifters and liars. We saw OD and I,

which asked us personally for help in contacting some of these people, and they did the same while also tapping their phones and hacking their computers. If I were a whistleblower, this would not give me assurances that I'm in good hands, and I would be very reluctant to come forward and spill the beans. There are ways they can do it. There are ways they have done it, and none of them have worked out very well. Again, with the example of Lockheed and CIA, I'd be very nervous about it. More importantly to me, you know, you and I know a lot of these guys, and we know what they've been through, and we know the kinds of things that have happened to intimidate them and shut them up. And I think those things that are being done are extra legal.

They're not something that it's not the kind of protection that this order gives to them. Sure, under this order, maybe they could come forward, tell something to the White House or we're not exactly sure who is the point of contact. They won't tell us. Yeah, they won't tell us. You can come forward to pursue, well, who the hell is that? And tell them and you can be assured we're not going to prosecute for violating your NDA. That is not what is at the foremost of concern for whistleblowers. It's the kind of things that happen to Matt Brown, the break-ins at their home,

the tapping of their phones and computers, the intimidation tactics, or the kinds of things that happened to Dylan Borland that threatened his life. That's what they're worried about. That's what I would be worried about. I'd be worried about my family, not whether I'm going to be hauled into court for violating some NDA. And I don't see anything that's in any of these new policies that have been announced now or in previous months, that would give me the kind of assurance that I'd be safe if I were to come forward and spill the beans. Yeah, and we don't even know if Congress gets the information after

people come to pursue. You know, we don't know if that will be declassified. I don't know that this will move us into any further form of transparency on the issue. So look, they got a lot of it, they got a lot of splain and to do. And I hope that they do answer. I mean, I'm sure there's many journalists that wrote in trying to get information on this. You know, bottom line is they have been given enough information between Arrow, ODI and I, and people coming in just to Congress. And that is something I would trust, by the way. I would trust going into Rep Burleson and the offices of Rep. Luna and saying,

I have something I want to tell. But again, how much does our government really need? people have David Grush gave a full, I mean a full breakdown to the inspector general of the intelligence community of everything. What more information do they need? Do they just want more people coming forward and telling what they know? It's a real, it's a real issue. So anyway, it was a little announcement by the Department of War. It got people all stirred up and really looking into it. I just didn't see the power in it until they really defined the terms of this. And then you got like how many people are going to break away from these programs and really

give anything substantial. I mean, that is the motivation you have to have if you're in one of these legacy UAP reverse engineering and exploitation programs or if you were involved in the attempt to transfer with Bigelow. What is your, you know, motivation to break forward and and tell about this? I just don't know. I mean, famously, we have David Grush talking about aliens and bodies and we've got Eric Davis talking about some of the stuff that he was exposed to. They already know about all that. They know the locations. Grush and Davis have both given locations.

Now, the stuff can't imagine it's still there. I hope that somebody's gone to look. We know Burleson, Representative Burleson, had been traveling around to sensitive locations to look around for himself. But, of course, they know he's coming. If it were there in the first place, it was long gone by the time the congressman

and his team got there, I would think. But, you know, again, it goes back to the kinds of threats that have really truly intimidated potential witnesses and whistleblowers have nothing to do with their NDAs. I think it gives a great excuse to debunkers and critics to say, aha, you're free to come forward and talk. If you're not going to come forward and talk now, it means you really have nothing to say. I think that's a fair statement for them to go ahead and make, though underhanded a little bit, because there are so many other factors that are involved with this. Matt Brown, we cut it out of the the last episode we did with him. But he showed us a picture and the name of the guy who was in

charge of messing with his life and the lives of other whistleblowers. We left that out because we would have our own legal problems if we went ahead and shared with the name and attached some of the alleged activities to that individual. So we didn't include it. But that's what keeps people like Matt up at night not being able to sleep. It's the threat to their lives and their their wives and their families, not whether or not they're going to be hauled into court and tried for violating their NDA. Yeah, it's the dirty tricks, man. And to be fair, it's hard for us to validate the specifics of that information.

I'm no doubt that is what's going on. But we kind of get in a position where they are acting, as you say, kind of outside of the boundaries of the law. We saw that with ODNI. we saw pressure points of that with OD&I. And yeah, man, I just don't know where this goes from here. Is it about getting more whistleblowers to come forward? You know, we have two options here.

It's like the government already knows, then why does it need whistleblowers, right? To rediscover the programs it's supposed to control. Like, okay. And then if the government, if these elements of government don't know, you know, what does that say about the oversight of these compartmentalized programs? So either way, it's a news story. I just, I'm, I am confused right now about what this pursue waiver is supposed to signal to people thinking about risking coming forward because they think it's a more important

issue that they should break in the fold. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm not, I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy from this whole thing. I'm encouraged to one degree. It seems like somewhere people in Washington are responding to the public's interest and public pressure and at least throw in a bone to the public and to people like us to make it look like action is happening. On the other hand, I'm disappointed because it will result in potential whistleblowers being attacked for not coming forward. It will intimidate those who are still on the fence about

whether they want to come forward. And I don't think it does anything to encourage the ones who have had the real hands-on experience to go ahead and risk everything. Now, maybe someone will defy logic and go ahead and step forward, whether it's in their own best interests or not. I think it's going to take a test case of some brave person stepping up to the plate, spilling the beans, giving them information that can be verified right then, and then getting out of it unscathed without being thrown into prison or without being murdered or having break-ins at their home. I don't know who that person's going to be.

We'll have to wait and see. What do you think about all this buzz about a potential announcement, by the president. It's coming, George. That's what people are saying. It's coming. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think that's a bunch of bullshit. I don't think there's any announcement coming from the president. Now, maybe he gets boxed in into a corner because of other political issues. I know that whenever we talk about President Trump and what he's been told and whether or not he's going to make an announcement, the invariable response is you're not talking about the Epstein files. It's all a distraction. Well, you know, it is.

possible for the human mind to consider more than one thing at its same time, and maybe it is a distraction, in a sense, from other issues. The war tariffs, you know, our antipathy toward most of the civilized world. There's a lot of things going on. We are capable of considering more than one issue at the same time. Whether do I think that President Trump's about to make an announcement? No. And I can't imagine why he would. You know what? What we saw this weekend at this past week at this event in Vernal, you know, we're talking about the kinds of things that have happened at Skinwalker Ranch and throughout the U.N. To Basin for many years. The last time we had a conversation with Jim Lakatsky, who was the head of Ossap, had been a career intelligence

official and rocket expert for DIA. He told us that UFOs are a tiny sliver of the mystery, that the paranormal stuff, the really weird stuff, is where this all leads. that UFOs are like tinsel on the Christmas tree. And if that's true, then a president who makes an announcement about UFOs is going to be asked about all the other things that come with it. And the other stuff that comes with it is really hard to accept and to explain to the public. The things that have happened to the ranch.

Shapeshifting aliens, shape-shifting beings, shape-shifting craft, UFOs that fly right into a solid rock mesa, things that follow you home, werewolves, cigarette-smoking dogs, dark-smoky entities that are standing at the footy or bed in the middle of the night when you wake up, things that murder cows, slice them up with surgical precision, orbs that vaporized dogs, all kinds of weird stuff that Lakatsky and Jay Stratton and Colum Keleher and Robert Bigelow and a lot of other people who spent time on that ranch know

is directly related to UFOs. So how do you make them a speech like this? that. Yeah, we got UFOs. Yeah, UFOs are real. It's non-human. We don't know where they're from. We don't know how long they've been here, why they're here, what their motives are. They do abduct people from now and again, and they submit them to invasive medical procedures and examinations. They put implants in them, send them back to their homes. We don't know why they're doing that, but it's been going on forever. There's nothing we can do about it. They can fly rings around our best planes and technology. They can disable our nukes. And we're going to do it. And we're We don't really know where they're from or what the long-range plans are.

How do you make that announcement? You could say we've got craft that we've got bodies and we're trying to figure it out. Sure you could. But people aren't going to be satisfied with that. The UFO public isn't going to be satisfied with anything less than UFOs, crafts, crashed crafts, materials, bodies. We're not going to be satisfied with anything less than that. But there's so much more to this mystery that is directly related that's going to be very, very hard for anyone to explain. Certainly any president or pope or national leader, I wish them

they'll luck with that whole thing, but I don't anticipate that coming anytime soon. Yeah, you reiterated to me this weekend that although we're chasing saucers and we're looking for reverse engineering programs and we have some information that have provided it about where these things are being stored and how they're being attempted to be transferred and worked on, that the real core of the story has always been the experiencer, that it's the individuals that encounter these non-human intelligences that seem to be associated with UAP and UFOs, as we call them, that you've kind of said to me again this weekend that that has always been the core of this story

is the human experience and the individuals who have some sort of contact. And it reminded me of the Betty and Barney Hill case, which is one of the very first abduction. cases. It was highly documented. So do you think that we're kind of focused too much on the hardware and that there's an element of the experiencer that should be better studied right now? Exactly that. I mean, you know, as I've said before, what hooked me on the subject was the paper trail of documents that show the government and military and intelligence agencies know that this is real. They know it's not us or the Russians or the Chinese. It's someone else.

They've admitted that themselves way back to the 1940s. They know that's what it is. Now, for reporters, for journalists like us, the pursuit of the technology is critical. I mean, it would be critical if a nation, any nation could reverse engineer it. There are bodies, there are craft, that's physical stuff that could be pursued, that would reveal that this whole big mystery is true. But it really does not address the more central questions. and that's the communication that has happened for centuries between us and them.

One-on-one contact, often communications, these alien editorials that they share with us, telepathic communications, direct eye-to-eye face-to-face experiences. That seems to me to be the core of this mystery. We don't exactly know what they are or where they are from or what their long-range plan is, but that communication has been going on. And whether the president ever makes an announcement about UFOs or crashes or beings, that is where the real heart of this mystery is. And that's what I would really like to know about it.

But it's the hardest thing to pursue. It's the heart of the whole mystery, but it's the most difficult part to get to the bottom of. Well, let's see. I think that we, you know, maybe we should jump into one of those experiencer cases. Maybe we should go over the Betty and Barney Hill and just, you know, remind people of the details. because you met Betty at one point, right? Long time ago, yeah. Yeah.

So let's look forward to that. We might have to do that. I think you've got something stashed away about that, right? I might. Well, maybe next time we'll bring that up.