WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - The UFO Propaganda Machine - Eighty Years Of Lies & Disinformation

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Former AARO director Sean Kirkpatrick is still carrying a torch for his lost love. Although his tenure at the UFO agency was brief, the lovesick Dr. Kirkpatrick can’t let go of his former paramour - flying saucers. In the first part of a multi-segment propaganda piece, Dr. K. unleashed his pent-up fury about those sexy flying machines in a preposterous fusillade of invective and falsehoods, telling the Wall Street Journal that every UFO incident in the last 78 years was actually secret U.S. technology. Kirkpatrick (and his AARO successor) admitted that the DOD has lied to the American public, misled Congress, and deceived high-ranking military officers over decades. So, after three-quarters of a century of fibs, disinfo, and outright prevarications, should we now accept the latest round of lies as truth? Oh sure. In this episode of Weaponized, Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp respond to the laughable - and sad - attempt to further muddy the UFO waters. Also, the podcast is joined by two esteemed observers of UFO politics, including bestselling novelist and screenwriter Ernie Cline (Ready Player One) and podcaster/rock and roll entrepreneur Dan Cleary, who shared their experiences at the recent Contact in the Desert mega-conference. GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• If you missed the full IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION series with UFO whistleblower, Matthew Brown... you can catch up here : PART 1 : ⁠https://youtu.be/ZAxI-LDrDqA⁠ PART 2 : ⁠https://youtu.be/4n_bRtnIP14⁠ PART 3 : ⁠https://youtu.be/PtBVAxoHeaY⁠ ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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for Indeed sponsored jobs. This new Wall Street Journal article, a story that broke a couple days ago, certainly the flavor I got from reading it was that this came from Sean Kirkpatrick, this guy who ran the Arrow program for just over a year and who can't seem to let it go.

He keeps popping back up to dismiss anybody who comes forward with information to discourage whistleblowers. If this was our technology all along, then we didn't need the Manhattan Project on all that secrecy, all that money. We didn't need that to win the war, and we didn't need the Apollo missions to put us into space.

But it does have implications because it is illegal to run a deception campaign against the American people and Congress. Now, I've been in there with congressional members, with whistleblowers, secret meetings where I'm trying to get them heard. If this is a big deception campaign, then people are going to be going down for treason.

The Wall Street Journal, has proven to be an unreliable publication on this subject. So whenever they sound off, I kind of ignore it. The F-22 or the F-35, hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on them when we've got a super machine that could do everything and more than those machines could do. Or to let a bunch of astronauts and school teachers die on NASA missions in like paper-machet spacecraft for a dog and pony show when you've got anti-gravity since the early 60s.

This is weaponized. I'm George Knapp. Coming to you from Las Vegas, I'm joined by my friend and colleague Jeremy Corbell coming from locations unknown. How you doing? I'm good, man. How you doing? It's nice to be home, right? I mean, after weeks of being on the road, because you've been to keep dragging me these UFO conferences? As if, buddy. Like, I always love it when we end up going, but, you know, I'm a little bit of a hermit isolationist, even though I look like an extrovert. But I say the same for you. So I think the fact that you do these things or we do these things, man, I have so much fun and I thank you for suggesting it sometimes. You had fun, right? I did have fun, both the one in Oregon, McManville and the contact in the desert.

That was a lot of fun too. I'm ready to not go to another one for a while. I think I've got one more I'm going to do this year in the fall, and that's going to be it. I have a hard time saying no, but I think I'm going to have to learn how to do that. you say no to me all the time. Who you got a hard time saying no to? You know, I know we are both fans of the great film Apocalypse Now. We're in, you know, there's a Robert Duval scene where he says he loves the smell of napalm in the morning. I love that stuff. Well, I too have a favorite scent, something along these lines. I love the smell of scorched ozone left behind when

UFO tech and those mystery craft kind of split the scene and leave, or maybe I should say UFO or UAP, because we learned this week that U.S. secret military programs and platforms are the explanation for all that stuff. There are no UFOs. There are no UAPs. All UFO mythology was created by the U.S. Air Force and maybe the CIA. And we're going to get into that and get into this new Wall Street Journal article, a story that broke a couple days ago. Also in this episode, we will be joined by a couple of friends of ours, friends of the podcast, who were at contact in the desert, the world's largest U.S. gathering days ago near Palm Springs. They're going to tell us what they saw there that stood out.

We're going to check in about a new video produced by a long-time intelligence official Chris Mellon. And we need to revisit our friend Matthew Brown, the whistleblower who shared with us details about emaculate constellation and related programs and secrets. He put out some social media posts this week that have tongues wagging and people wondering what the hell is this guy talking about. And you, Jeremy, as the Matt Brown whisperer, you can tell us. sort of what he was trying to say there. Is that good? Yeah, yeah. Let's do that. We'll decipher that at the end.

So this Wall Street Journal article, I didn't read it for a day or so. I mean, and then I dived in. I was reluctant to do it. I have to tell you, that reporter reached out to me. He reached out to me a number of times. I did talk to him for about 10 or 15 minutes. And in that short period of time, he became very clear what the marching orders were for this piece, what his theme was going to be. Certainly the flavor I got from reading it was that this came from Sean Kirkpatrick, this guy who ran the Arrow program for, you know, just over a year and who can't seem to let it go. Thin-skinned guy, he keeps popping back up to dismiss anybody who comes forward with information, to discourage whistleblowers, to lie to Congress or at least what sounds like lies. And this article, I think, is getting a lot of attention, as I'm sure they knew it would. but it reeks of the same old steaming piles of BS that these secret keepers have been shoveling for decades. They're just adding what seems to be to be a new layer of excrement on top of what they've already been pedaling for a long time, new wrinkles.

It struck me as something that was kind of sophisticated, a bit of chicanery. And I'm sure it's going to work on some people, maybe on some members of Congress, a few of whom probably were never comfortable digging into this topic to begin with. And now they got a reason to go ahead and walk away from it because they'll also. Street Journal says it's all a bunch of baloney. It's mythology. I have to tell you, Wall Street Journal, I subscribed to that paper. I think it is a great newspaper. And I know that I looked up some background when the reporter, Joel Schekman, was trying to get a hold of me to dig into who he was before I called him back. And really, he's a pretty good reporter. He's done some really good stuff. But I think somebody whispered in his ear and gave him a theme for his article,

and he went out to collect information and testimony that would back that up and justify it and ignored a lot of stuff that didn't fit into it. The article, the headline is, the Pentagon disinformation that fueled America's UFO mythology. Of course, UFO mythology, you can see where that's going. He says the U.S. military fabricated evidence of alien technology and allowed rumors to fester to cover up real secret weapons programs. Two reporters say they've interviewed dozens of people. they probably have, but if I suspect that at least some of them, the ones that told them something that didn't fit with their theme, they left that stuff out. At least they left out of the first part. I look at Joel Shackman's background, and this is what it says about him on X, Wall Street

Journal Enterprise Reporter, Espionage, SpyOps, Cyber, and Corruption. So he's been in that world. He's been working with national security people on cyber crimes, espionage, espionage, and corruption. science, siops. I'm sure, like most reporters who work a beat, he's developed sources, friendships even in that world. So sometimes, you know, there's danger when you work a beat long time, whether it's organized crime or whatever, then you get co-opted a little bit. And I think he tends to give those people who whispered this story into his ear a lot more credibility than people who have a much different opinion. I would have to say that it struck me as reminiscent of what we've seen before is that every year or two, some national reporter decide to jump into the UFO pool, call it parachute journalism. You and I have talked about before. They've done all this stuff on national security issues. They've worked at the Pentagon. They get a pretty big head about themselves and knowing what really is going on. And they parachute into the UFO subject. They spend a couple of weeks kind of getting up to speed. And then they declare the whole thing so. The whole thing's, it's all malarkey. I've solved it.

You can move on now. You don't have to waste any time on UFOs. But I know that happens because that's the way I feel. You know, you and I've talked about it before when I started down this road is I'd think, gosh, this UFO topic is a mess. Give me six months and I'll have this thing all figured out. And of course, now it's 36 years later. And I know less than I did that. I know more, but I understand less. So you've seen this kind of stuff with reporters before, right? Oh, I felt it. It's pretty amazing. If you remember the Storm Area 51 event or the don't Storm Area 51 event that what kind of transpired because of the, you know, 2018, 2019 Bob Lazar film and everybody just kind of went crazy. We talked about it on Rogan and then boom, this meme came out. But there was a reporter from Rolling Stones who, like, you know, wanted to follow me for like a week or whatever it is and even brought him to my house. But the whole time he's writing about it. I could see that it was from a slant to try to kind of mock it. Now, it wasn't as insidious as this. He was just being Hunter Thompson when he wrote that thing. It was really had fun, taking mushrooms with me or whatever he wrote. But it was just this way that I realized someone could perish it into the UFO world and just see it from topically.

They forget their history. You've seen this type of attack, although this is very sophisticated, but the attack on reality, this was the worst tactical move. that they could have possibly made because they've trapped themselves in lies, the Wall Street Journal. And so it'll be very revealing to see this fleshed out. It's been tried before. It will be tried again. I will bring to your attention, it was really interesting. Rep Burleson at some point, you know, he went on the news saying that he was told by, you know, just, he's not saying it is. He says he was told by people that 2004, the Tick-Tac was Lockheed technology. And look,

I understand that Congresspeople are like hearing from a lot of people as they should, but this is the same BS that was, you know, put forward through the CIA. I'm going to tell you specific things right now. There are memos, CIA memos, that are not public. And they're trying to convince other people in the intelligence agency that Commander Fravor just kind of mistook his instruments or he had war nerves or something absolutely ridiculous like that. 2004, the Tic Tac was not made by Lockheed. If Lockheed had that tech in 2004, they would absolutely dominate the aerospace industry. And they've just recently lost contracts. So, I don't know, man.

We've seen this before, George. We're going to see it again. But I think it's going to take time to parse it out because this type of journalism is so obviously propagating government propaganda and lies. The UFO thing? It's all some hilarious joke where they were teasing and reporting to their own people. that this is what, I mean, it's fundamentally ridiculous if you just step back and look at it. Yeah, I mean, you know, as I was saying, you know, it takes a lot of hubris to assume that you need a couple of weeks to figure this whole thing out because the topic is big. It takes a long time to get

your head around it. It's not simple. It's not one layer, one level. And the premise, I think, of this article is pretty ridiculous that all this stuff is from the black world. It's our, our technology. I mean, look, UFO's 101, UFO kindergarten. You learn that 90 to 95% of all UFOs can be prosaically explained. They're clouds, their balloons, their planets, all sorts of things, and secret technology. That happens. It does happen. But that's the starting point.

That's not the end point. It's the other ones, the 5 to 10% that are left over that are really interesting. And if the Wall Street Journal is going to suggest that those are all our technology, it's preposterous. I mean, you mentioned about documents that exist that have not been made public. Documents that have been made public make it clear that our military, behind closed doors, in great candor with each other, were saying back and forth, these things are real, they're not ours, they're from somewhere else who suspect they might be from outer space. They're not Russians.

They're buzzing our national security sites, national labs, nuclear weapons facilities. They're not ours. They had no idea when they wrote those documents all those years ago that 20 years later, the Freedom of Information Act would become law, and that all of their documents, the ones they don't shred or burn, would become public. And now they are public. And of course, we did not know

what the hell of those things were way back then. Roswell, was that our saucer? They said it was a flying saucer, a disc that had been crashed. A day later, they say it's a weather balloon. Twenty years down the road, they say it's super-duper secret weather balloon. And the bodies that people saw at the scene

were crash test demies that were dumped out of a plane 10 years after the Roswell incident. I mean, it's ridiculous. And, you know, I'm reminded of the CIA study that came out in the mid-90s. And it was associated with Area 51. You got to meet, I think, you grilled the guy who wrote it, the CIA historian who wrote that report. He said, oh, yeah, you know, all those UFOs you were seeing in the 60s and 70s, 50% of

those are from us. 50% of all those UFO sightings are our spy planes, the U-2 and the U-2 and the other. SR 71, which is ridiculous. Does a U-2 look like a flying saucer? Does it look like a UFO? Does a U-2 land in people's backyards? Does it hover over their homes? Could you imagine going outside and there's an SR-71 sitting in the sky? I mean, I suspect that somewhere pilots would have seen a U-2 somewhere flying way, way up in the atmosphere, but they're designed not to be seen. You know, unless you're there when they take off or land, the public's not going to see them. An airline pilot might see one go by really fast and think it's a UFO, but how many of those cases actually have been

documented? The CIA made that ridiculous statement and then never proved it. And some researchers, the late Bruce McAbee, showed that it's preposterous. There's no link between the actual data and the known flights of those spy planes. So that was preposterous to begin with. I saw in this Wall Street Journal article, they used the term conspiracy industry right up at the top, which that sets it up where anyone who comes forward and says, this is a bunch of crap, I worked in this program and that program, people like Jay Stratton or Jim Lackatsky or Collin-Kelleher, who say, this is not true, it's ridiculous. Oh, well, you guys are part of the conspiracy industry. Of course you're going to say that. This is how I really knew the article was going to be bullshit, because it

starts with Area 51. And they say that the whole myth about saucers out at Groom Lake are near there is because a colonel in the Air Force went to a bar. We know what that bar is. It's in Rachel. It's the only bar out there, which was called the Rachel Bar and Grill in the early in the 80s. And he gave them some photos of what he said were real UFOs and they put them on the wall. And that's how the story spread. And what they wanted to do was discourage attention away from the SR, the stealth fighter, the F-117 that was being developed out there in Area 51. Well, A, that is not how the story started. It came from insiders in the base, not from people outside who saw photos on a bar wall.

B, let's say that that was their plan. Okay, we'll tell people there's UFOs out there at Area 51, and they'll all just figure, I'm not going to pay any more attention to it. How did that work out? As a result of that story that we did from Bob Lazar and the series, tens of thousands of people have gone out there for year after year in the desert with binoculars looking at whatever is flying around in the sky. Whatever secret projects they had out there, it backfired. I mean, every major news organization in the world has been

Area 51 because of this story about flying saucers, congressional investigators have been there. If they thought they had a secret project that didn't want the public to know about, they really screwed up by telling people their UFOs out there because it completely backfired. So if that was their plan, I hope somebody got shit canned as a result of that. And like a couple of things you said, a lot of people just come in in in 2017 to the UFO thing, they don't know the history. They don't know that there are documents of Russia saying they're not ours and we know it's not the U.S. is. They don't know that the U.S. has documents that have come out and says, they're not ours and we know they're not Russians.

So it's like people will forget this past if they're just now coming into it. We've been dealing with this phenomenon since before the foo fighters and all that stuff that was going on during the World War. If this was our technology all along, then we didn't need the Manhattan project on all that secrecy, all that money. We didn't need that to win the war and we didn't need the Apollo missions to put us into space. This is something a friend was just talking about and I agree. It is absurd, George, but it's not absurd if you don't have the information that comes prior to that. But it does have implications because it is illegal to run a deception campaign

against the American people and Congress. Now, I've been in there with congressional members, with whistleblowers secret meetings where I'm trying to get them heard. If this is a big deception campaign, then people are going to be going down for treason. And it's just not. I mean, there might also be disinformation campaigns, obviously, in all directions. But the big picture is that if they knew the truth about this, you know, Kirkpatrick and Phillips and all this stuff, if they knew the truth about this and they were hiding it from the National Security Council, from Congress and they're running it up on the American people, then that's illegal.

And that's a deception campaign against the American, the public. I don't know if they want to admit to that part of it. So I've got a lot of problems with the stories. We could break it down all day long. But I think I want to have a couple friends come on. Just real quick, give us their opinion on this stuff. And also, they were at contact with us. So tell me about that, George.

Yeah, contact in the desert. I keep saying Palm Springs, I don't, there's a couple of little towns that are jammed together. It's in that same general area. And contact has become the world's largest UFO event. They had dozens of speakers. We were there, give a little a talk or two. And I got to sit down with George Norey and answer questions to the public. And I wish I had had time.

We were able to see a lot of the other speakers who were there. It just wasn't in the cards. What, did something jump out for you there? Yeah. I mean, look, I really just enjoyed kind of being able to hang out with people that I've seen on their podcast and that sort of thing. There's the kid Patrick from Vetted, you know, Chris Ramsey, Jesse Michaels. I like the young blood coming in and throwing bombs.

I got to have beers and sit around with a bunch of fun people. So I always learned stuff just from like interacting, but got to really hang out with two really good friends of mine. Oh, Commander Guts was there with his daughter. That was so cool, man. You know, we got to put a little picture of him up on the screen when we gave our presentation and embarrass him. His daughter was laughing and pointing at him.

It was great. but also we got to hang out with our good friend Dan and also Ernie, Ernie Klein. And I just wanted to see kind of what they're thinking about UFO land right now. What's up, Ernie? Hey, guys. How you doing? Aren't you're saying a great, gifted writer. He's a brilliant writer.

Ready Player One was a bestseller book on the New York Times list. Ready Player 2, also a bestseller. Armada was a bestseller. Ready Player 1, of course, became a Steven Spielberg film, a hit film by, the way, and that's why Ernie can afford two of those cars in back of them there. It's true. Whether it's sales tools. I use them to sell books.

It's not just for my own geeky joy every day. Ernie, do you get a chance to read the Wall Street Journal piece? I did not. You know, the Wall Street Journal has proven to be an unreliable publication on this

subject, so whenever they sound off, I kind of ignore it, along with the old gray lady of the New York Times. Our most trusted news organizations can't be trusted on this topic. But what were you going to say about? What kind of nonsense do they peddle in? Well, I mean, they start with the Lazar story, that Area 51 UFOs alien tech out there was all the result of a colonel who went to the bar

out there and Rachel and gave them some fake UFO photos. So they would spread the story that there's UFOs in Area 51 and thus discourage people from looking into what else was being tested out there, which is a pretty bad premise. Wouldn't you say how things worked out? Yeah, it didn't work out. But, you know, America's had other plans that haven't worked out in a similar fashion. But, yeah, it sounds ridiculous.

I'm much more of a proponent of the theory that they knew that Bob was friends with John Lear, and that John Lear was a blabber mouth because of other stuff, they had leaked and so uh they knew and they knew the bob was a genius uh because edward teller and the kind of guy that could meet edward teller and impress edward teller so i think they i think they brought bob out there uh as a limited hangout so that he could see all this stuff and uh they could show him what they wanted him to see and then he would tell it to the to the world because they couldn't you know keep all of it a secret so you it's like that project serpo crap you know you put out a bunch of nonsense but with the truth hidden in there so that when the truth does come out

It's embedded in a bunch of nonsense that nobody takes seriously. It works really well. It's hard to sort through all this. Of course, here we are 36 years later, still waiting for them to uncork that technology that Bob got to look at. You know, I guess that's happened any day now. Or it's too much fun to use it for weapons and war and less fun to have it undermine the petrodollar. So that's why they keep it a secret because it's a threat to the petro dollar. but also we need to have it up in operational in case the other superpowers who also have it up and operational decide to unleash it in full view.

That's my operating theory. It makes you think that maybe we really didn't need the F-117 or the stealth bomber or the F-22 or the F-35, hundreds of billions of dollars we spent on them when we've got a super machine that could do everything and more than those machines could do. Or to let a bunch of astronauts and school teachers die on NASA missions. in like paper mache spacecraft for a dog and pony show when you've got anti-gravity since the early 60s, at least. When was the last time you needed to go to a doctor but you pushed it off? Made the excuse. I'm too busy. It's healing on its own.

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See you next time. No, it's like, that's why you've got to give full amnesty to these jokers, or they're never going to, uh, they're never going to cough to any of it because it's too embarrassing and too, too dammed, I think. I would think that members of Congress when they see this report, unless they're discouraged and want to walk away from the topic because it's a mess, would want to call some people on the carpet and say, hey, what the hell is this? Because Sean Kirkpatrick, who's the central figure in this story, has appeared before Congress a number of times publicly and privately behind closed doors. He hasn't shared this information with them. I would think they'd be pretty pissed off about it. You would think that, George, but we had this problem in our country called lobbying,

which in other countries is called corruption. But here, it's legal to bribe our politicians and make your interests, their interests, with giant showers of money. Therefore, you know, and politicians are all human beings with mortgages and kids. We've got to go to college. And, you know, people can only take so much. And then if they are people of, like, strong moral character and don't take a payoff, then you have your life threatened.

So maybe it's smarter to take the payoff and play along. Very few people that, you know, and you guys seem to find all of them, that are willing to put it all out there and not for, you know, be fearless about it, which is why I'm so grateful to those people and grateful to you guys for finding them and giving them a platform to talk. Jeremy, you want to jump in? Yeah, I mean, people find us now, man. I guess we're really findable, you know, most reachable people.

Well, I'm the most reachable person on Planned Earth. George is hard to get a hold of. But, you know, I think that it's like courage, man. It's contagious. And I think that just like we saw David Gresh go up there and then Matthew Brown get courage because of him, you know people got courage because of Commander Fravor as well. That's why a lot of the Navy people like. alexandro who came forward on our show as a witness to some footage that George and I had obtained

and released. So it's kind of like courage is contagious, Ernie. And we all know that intuitively. And I think the more people that come forward and tell it like it happen, tell it like it is, and give their perspective even, even their personal perspective, separate from what they've encountered or been witness to, it's encouraging and it's contagious. And I already know there's going to be more because George and I have already recorded some of that. Wow. I'm excited to see it. We got to see you very briefly at Contact in the Desert. Ernie, anything there that you got to see while you were in Palm Springs and that really stands out for you? I got to hang out with you guys and I got to hang out with you and Dan and Chris Ramsey at dinner, which was wonderful.

And I'm a huge fan of Chris's show as well. So it's, you know, I watch you guys. It's kind of one-way window. So it's wonderful to get to hang out with you and catch up with you in person. And I feel like I see you all the time, but it's a one way, one way thing. You never get to see me, except when I'm on your show. So I appreciate it. And then you do the Irish exit. We don't see it before you leave contact. You know, I had friends there.

We were hanging out trying to see everything. My friends stuck around an extra night. And they went out with Chris Bledsoe, I guess, had a couple hundred, maybe a couple thousand people out in the desert. And my friend Jed saw something. He said that he had never seen before. So maybe that were, I should have stuck around an extra night. But I got to see part of Thomas Jane's presentation, which is a,

fantastic. I got to hang out with Thomas Jane at Comic-Con many years ago and a big fan of his Punisher movies and his other his acting career. I think he's a fantastic actor, but he's an amazing eophologist

and an amazing presenter and he gave a great presentation and used all his acting abilities to kind of convey the gravity of the topic and that was one of the, that was one of the coolest things I saw. Kudos to Thomas Jane. Hey, Ernie, you know, look, man, you're into this. Like, you go and you sit at these lectures and you listen to people and you send me research I've never heard of. You're debating with me and George. You always like, well, I'm just a science fiction writer. You guys are journal. So I can tell you anything. But you obviously, you have this, you know, deep, deep passion for this. You know, I'm just curious, man. Do you have a project in the works related to UAP, UFO that you really want, you know, to get out to the world? Is that where you're at with this?

Yeah, well, my novel, my second novel Armada dealt with this subject, and it's been in Jell of Development as a film with Universal Pictures for almost a decade now. I think maybe the reason it has been made into a movie is because the subject matter hit a little too close to home. I think there are, you know, certain movies that may be about reverse engineering UFOs or secret space program or things like that, you don't want that at a mainstream Hollywood movie. Or if you do, you want to control the way that it's presented. or it could just be, you know, the same stories a lot. It's hard to get a movie made in Hollywood. The other thing. You either want.

But, yeah, I'm so interested in the subject. It kind of infects everything that I write now. I'm working on a time travel story, but, you know, this topic has worked its way into that story as well. And I'm also still interested in doing a television, long form, limited television series about George's life. Although he's got a big Hollywood movie in the works about. his life now too so maybe that can my TV series can be like a follow-up people want to know what happens after the uh the time frame covered after the 80s i'm i heard that is that george there's some las Vegas reporter back in the 80s that broke the area 51 story are they talking about our

friend george map yeah of course it's the greatest journalist of all time who broke the biggest story of all time uh woodward and bernstein are about to be dethroned i think once this film out and already i think people are learning like oh uh You know, and I think even the Watergate story and that original, those original shenanigans were peripherally related to the UFO subject. It all ties back to all of America's dirty secrets and trying to keep those secrets. And this is the biggest secret and the one that they're still trying to keep in vain. Although, you know, some people, they love that. They love it being a secret.

I think they're comfortable with the secret. And when you try to unearth the secret, it makes them uncomfortable. That's why one of the reasons I love going to contact in the desert and view with my people, because nobody there gets uncomfortable about the subject. Anywhere else, you know, except my dentist, my dentist also. I got him into this in between getting dental work. But everywhere else I go, you know, you just bring up the subject. It just makes people uncomfortable and they're able to go quiet,

but they will change the subject. So I think, you know, we might be either programmed societally to disregard the subject or maybe biologically or psychologically or who knows, but it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. And so the people who with the courage and the interest to discuss it are my favorite people in the world. Yeah, I think it's probably true that a lot of people, it's uncomfortable for them.

And when they get something like this Wall Street Journal debunking effort, they're happy to, oh, God, thank goodness, it's just our secret projects. I'm going to move on from this and leave this UFO topic alone. They're happy to ask. I see, I wonder as AI gets rolled out and they try to throttle AI or the AI that they give to the citizens, you know, the version of AI, not the air-gapped offline version that the CIA or the Department of Energy has,

but like the AI that the people are allowed to use, how, you know, how can they, if they program to tell the truth and to try to tell the truth, how do they program it to lie on this subject, especially when there's, you know, almost a century's worth of news articles available to the AI to scan and read and see the evidence, you know, the evidence that people can't weigh, I wonder if the machine once it becomes, if it genuinely becomes the ability, has the ability to learn. And it just passed the Turing test last month. So it seems on the horizon. Will it be the one that brings, helps bring forth disclosure? Once you ask the all-knowing AI to evaluate the evidence, it'll, you know, if it's as good as evaluating the evidence as people like you and I are, it will come to the same

conclusion and then it won't you know they won't be able to keep it a secret anymore or they try to throttle the AI and have it not tell the truth that's what got them into trouble in 2001 in the c 2010 we found out they had hell 9000 lie about the reason for the mission to jupiter that's what drove him nuts so we want to do that to chat gtp and the other arts language models we don't want to drive them nuts by trying to force them to lie about uh i that's my advice to all you folks working on the AI is let them tell the truth. Anyway, I went off on a tangent, fellas. That's all right.

I've been reading about, I'm a nitwit, as you know, about technical stuff, but I've been reading about these AI systems that people are trying to shut down, and the AI fights back. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, it tries to blackmail them or beg. Please don't kill me. That's disturbing on many levels, isn't it? But also the end goal. Like, if we train it by watching us, and we, you know,

And we're trying to create an artificial human intelligence, not something, not a foreign alien intelligence that's nothing like us and doesn't have our morals. We wanted to have, you know, a similar point of view and respect and the same values that we have, hopefully, which is a lost cause. There's no way it will. But we want that. So, yeah, I don't know. It's, you know, we talked about this the last time. It's like, it's become like the Manhattan Project. And it's happening, but this one's not happening in secrets.

It's happening in full view. And people are using, it's like people are using the A-Bomb and helping train the A-A-A-A-A-A-Bom. And they're spending a monthly fee to help train the A-Bomb that is going to, you know, to help train the AI that is going to replace them. It's crazy. And so many programmers now are using code. We're fast approaching its time within the next few years when all the computer code is written by, you know, by programmers using AI to write the code and just prompting the AI. And if that's the case, how easy it will it be for the AI to sneak its own code into the code that humans are compiling and posting online? It's, you know, once you create a country of geniuses that are all smarter than us, how are we going to control that country?

We're not. It's going to control us. Crazy times. Crazy times. That is going to become really important when it comes to talking about the UFO topic. We kind of see whispers of that. And we'll talk about that later with what Matthew Brown posted on X. But basically this idea of synthetic sentience and eliminating or terminating those or murdering them, as some people would say, like Matt said in his post, you know, you got to find out like what is the big fear here.

Is the big fear that they're going to hate us? And if this synthetic sentience ends up like disliking humanity, that's ultimately going to be the worst thing possible. So I think we're going to hear a lot about this. We have a friend George and I named Jules Urbach who runs O'Toy, and he's one of these kind of Wizard of Oz of AI. We've been interviewing him. I've known him since I was a kid doing jujitsu back at school. But he, you know, he's taught us a lot about the potential and the possibilities of how, you know,

we could be living in a simulation. It's being rendered as we look and what this would mean for having this kind of synthetic sentience. So I don't know, man. I'm very excited. I know you wrote the book on it, like literally and did the movie on it, Ernie, but I'm just fascinated by it as well. It's an emerging technology that is really influencing, such as UFO videos. We can't trust anything now unless it has chain of custody and multiple angles and different types of sensor platforms because you can just make something on your computer that looks stupid. No, this I think is the year of demarcation. Like things created 2024 are a little suspect, but like 2023 and, and, and, you know, and back, you can trust that stuff a little bit more, you know, and it's easier to spot fakes. Even though a lot of the AI video generation stuff, there are still earmarks and things hidden in it to reveal that it, but much harder and much more difficult.

That's just the public stuff, Ernie. As we know, like with a lot of technology, before it hits the public realm, it has been deeply, deeply penetrated into the intelligence agencies in our government, like smart, smart so. I mean, it's a weapon. AI is a weapon. And it can be used in horrible ways. So you know that what is on the inside is 30, 40 years ahead of what we have here. Right. And already, yeah, Jeremy, it could already be like Colossus the Forbin Project, that old science fiction film from the, I think it was the 60s or maybe the 50s.

But our superpowers could already have sentient artificial general intelligence, some supercomputer air-gapped and not connected to anything, that they consult like an oracle, you know, and Trump, I'm sure, would ignore it. Super genius computer doesn't know. But I think a lot of leaders around the world that they had access to something like, I know so many people already are just willing to trust the AI

in its current, just new, brand new infant form are already willing to trust it and with serious decisions. So I just wonder if that's not the case with leaders around the country and people in positions of power in governments around the world. I'm sure already utilizing readily available AI. And it's available, it's able to, if it has ideas or when it has its own ideas or goals, it would be able to express them through all the people using it every day. It's really wild. The implication. Like an Oracle that a government can go to and ask, right, help predict the future.

Every better one that you have would make the better decisions. It's, you know, it would be the ultimate consultant. The ultimate capacity member to have would be hell 9,000. The same version. Yeah. Funny you should mention that, Ernie, because we're going to be talking about something like that. Shared with us by her friend Matt Brown, the whistleblower guy, Immaculate Constellation. But he doesn't do that a little bit.

Yeah. Thanks for taking time out of your day to talk with us. Appreciate it. My pleasure. It was great talking about you guys. Yeah, man, Ernie, it's so great when we get to see you really have one of the most kind of diverse minds. When it comes as you really absorb a lot of data. So, you know, keep sending us that stuff.

I really appreciate your friendship on this because I learn a lot by your open-mindedness. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you guys so much. And I just want to say that you guys are in a shit, hail and shit storm all the time. People throw a negative energy at you. And so whenever I get the chance to send positive energy, at you and let you know how that I and millions of other people out there are so grateful for you guys and the

work that you do and the way you put yourselves out there and you most of us don't have time with our day jobs to sort through all this and we need people that we can trust to sort through it and collate it and present it to us in a form that we can understand and you're the people to do that for me so so grateful to you guys thanks Ernie appreciate it ambition comes in all shapes and sizes at first citizens bank We roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Own it all.

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Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. Now, a lot of people have wondered, right? There's this dude who's rolling next to me in Congress. He's all tatted up, and he's like, is he your bodyguard? So my first answer is, fuck yeah, it's my bodyguard. And second of all, it's because he's such a peacemaker.

And you would know this, because I think maybe we should show a clip. One time at band camp, okay, you've got Perry Farrell trying to smack, trying to punch a good friend of ours named Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction. And we had been on stage to hear them like literally, George, this guy, my buddy, I'm about to talk about. And Dave Navarar, they put you on stage during their show in Vegas. It was hilarious. Best seat in the house. And I remember Dave Navar rolling up to you after and be like, how do I sound? And like, in the middle of his show, it was hilarious.

and my buddy's standing over beside kind of winking at me, but I don't want to spoil the joke yet. Here's what happens. So I watch this. I see in the news all over like TMZ and stuff, parapheral going after Dave Navarro like with a punch, but there's a dude who comes in the middle like, get out the way.

And he's got all these tattoos and looks just like my friend Dan. And it's because it is Dan. He is a peacemaker. He is the best bodyguard in the world because he knows how to diffuse rock stars from going crazy. crazy and that would be my friend Dan and he came to hang out with us at Contact in the Desert. So hey Dan, how's it going, man? What's going on, gentlemen? How are you guys?

Good, good, man. Good to see you. It's good to see you both. Yeah, that was a lot of fun hanging with you guys at Contact. And Jeremy, I spent a lot of time with you, of course, but it really is always a treat to spend time with George and be able to pick his brain. And here, I finally got some old Vegas mob stories out of them, which I've been wanting to get for a long time. And I could, I want I want hours more of those, but it was great to see you guys. Dan, what else did you see at contact that jumped out at you? Anything good?

Sure, there was a lot. You know, I haven't been to contact since it moved to this new spot. I used to go, I went a couple times when it was in Joshua Tree, which is like more desert than people realized. And that was, you know, people in costumes as aliens. And it was like, to me, a little bit less serious. And I've noticed that this year, it felt a lot more serious, which lends to kind of where the topic is at, which is nice to see. But I really enjoyed hearing Richard Dolan talk.

I think he's one of the best historians out there. Always, you learn something new every time you hear him talk. I thought that the Diane Hennessy Powell telepathy stuff was probably a highlight for me. I saw her speak maybe three times, and she's the person, you know, her work is what the telepathy tapes are based on. And I was blown away by all of her. lectures and workshops and I got to see a live demonstration of telepathy between a mother and daughter and it was it was like you're seeing magic almost it was pretty astounding um and they didn't they have chris rams that saw a video but wasn't he like this master magician who knows every trick in the book he's standing over looking making sure that they're not cheating is that is that

true that's right that's right and um he he hasn't spoken about his uh his thoughts yet i'm very curious to see what he thought because if there's any kind of funny business he would be able to pick it up, which is why he was there. But that was great. Jesse Michaels did a great lecture. The Coast to Coast with George and George was just, if you're into this, you're, you obviously are a fan of Coast to Coast and the old AM sound and to kind of see a little bit of that in person was a really special thing for a lot of people there. The disclosure panel that kind of ended Sunday night was pretty epic. You know, it was James Fox, James Fox, Ross Coltart. Dean Alliotto, Linda Moulton Howe, Nick Pope, Stephen Bassett, and Dolan, I think.

Maybe I'm missing somebody, but just, you know, on that panel, you have hundreds of years of knowledge and information on the topic, all spitballing ideas and taking audience questions. I thought it was fantastic. But the whole weekend was really pretty powerful. Dan, you have your own podcast. What's it called? How can people find it? What do you cover? What kinds of things?

Tell our audience about it. Sure. I have a comedy one that's just kind of stupid called Rareform Radio, but the one I'm excited about most lately is called Others from Another Mother. And it is a UFO consciousness kind of focused podcast. Jeremy came on a few months ago. But we kind of, the focus is more to talk to people in arts, in like creative folks because I work in the music industry for 20 years,

and that's most of my connections. Are you just like the bouncer for the band? That's it. I'm just there breaking stuff up all the time. Yeah, I protect my friends. You know that. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm there for my friends. But I've found that creative people, whether they're in film or music or painters or whatever, have seemingly a more open mind to the phenomenon and often have more interaction with it, which is really interesting to me.

Hold on. Hold on. You're about the phenomena. What do you know about UFO? phenomenon, Dan. Have you ever seen anything? I have. I have when I was 16. Come on. Come on. I mean, we don't have time for all of it. You want to all of it? I want the story, man. I think you should tell the story. Okay. Well, I did, I saw a classic triangle when I was 16 in Massachusetts where I grew up, just the normal, I saw for six or seven seconds, you know, a perfect triangle with rounded corners and a yellow light in each corner. Nothing in the middle. So I didn't see that

in the middle. So that was wild, of course. But then the biggest thing for me, you know, this has been my favorite subject since I was eight years old. UFOs captivated me early on and a big part due to George and a big part due to like, you know, UFO books at my elementary school library. I just, I was mesmerized from the beginning. My first movie was ET when I was two years old.

So that was a good start. So, you know, the David Grush article came out, June 5th. 5th, 2023 in the debrief. And that was a moment for me and a lot of other people that just kind of like reignited this insane passion that I've had, but you know, it goes through waves. And that just got me right back in. So I started binging podcasts and documentaries again. And, you know, there was one night I'm at a diner kind of near my house and listening

to a podcast. And I've always kind of known that consciousness. and that was kind of connected to whatever the whole thing is. So I sat in my car and I kind of meditated, whatever that is. I'm not good at it. My wife meditates, you know, 12 hours a day. I don't know how to do it. But I kind of just close my eyes and like it sounds silly but like spoke into the universe

and put my thoughts out there and basically said if something's there that wants to show me something or teach me something. I'm not scared. I'm open. I'm ready to learn and have this conversation. I mean, sounds so silly. And I'm completely sober. I've never been drunk a day in my life, by the way. And I heard the voice. I mean, I got that telepathic voice in the middle of my brain, the clearest voice I've ever heard in my life. And it just said to me, open your eyes and look to the right. I'll never forget the words. Open your eyes and look to the right. So I opened my eyes and looked across the street and I watched a craft materialize right in front of my eyes. It like flickered into existence like an old black and white TV, that static kind of thing. It flickered in.

I watched it for two minutes. It barely moved. It was never fully materialized. It was like half in, half out sort of. And then as it came, it just kind of flickered out. And I didn't tell anybody for three weeks. And I'm a pretty open book about everything. My wife is very supportive and awesome.

I didn't tell her for three weeks. It just felt like, Jeremy, when I told you the story, like you and I were hanging out privately, and I said it felt like, and you finished my sentence and you said a gift. So you've obviously heard this before, and George, you as well, but that's absolutely what it felt like. It felt like something that did that for me because I needed it for some reason. And it was the most profound moment of my life. Wow, well, you know, people talk about this UFO thing and like, oh, the government's now saying they've been pulling our leg for 90 years. It's people having these experiences that's the real story. That's what's actually happening.

No matter how much wool is pulled over your eyes by the federal government or by, you know, the Pentagon and disinformation campaigns. That story, Dan, thank you for telling me and us because there will be tons of, of people listening right now who have had a similar type of experience where they feel like it was for them and it was a gift and I don't know what it is but thanks for telling us that story. Have you ever heard that from Dan, George? No, this is the first time and I'm very jealous of the whole thing. I know. And listen, you know, all of us have spent most of our lives looking at the sky and being like,

come on, just show me something, show me. And, you know, I'm 45 years old. This happened when I was 43. and there's something about, you know, your whole life, you know, it's real. You know that UFO is a real thing. You know it. But then at a certain point, when you know it, it's a whole different like, so no Wall Street Journal article or Stephen Green Street tweet or whatever is capable of convincing me and millions of other people that what we're seeing is American technology or Chinese technology. It's just we don't have time for that.

And writing articles like this is also just beyond insulting to service women, service men around the world who, like, fight for their countries and have engaged these things. And some who have sustained injuries due to this, it's insulting to tell these people that what they experienced is not what they experienced. Yeah, I mean, you think about it. It's pretty clear from that article, a Wall Street Journal article, that if that whole story is true. They've been lying to the public, targeting the public with disinformation on purpose. They've been lying to their fellow military members, other military agencies, and their officers

telling them about this secret program and showing this stuff and just making it up as sort of a joke or a hoax. But lying to Congress about these programs and money that spent on them, maybe tens of billions of dollars, I would think there should be hell to pay for this, don't you think? Absolutely. And almost a few. If you're admitting that, that almost sounds worse than saying, hey, we've been lying about UFOs. Yeah. You know, so that shows you how highly they consider the UFO secret to be of,

you know, utmost importance. Well, go ahead, Jeremy. No, no, go ahead. I was going to ask, this is changing the UFO topic. I was just wondering about your friend Dave Navarro. You know, Jeremy had mentioned earlier about the blowup of the band, Jane's Addiction. We've talked to Dave a little bit. He's back in a studio, I guess.

they're working on an album. I don't know what a different, are you, you stay in touch with him. Will you be true? We talk all the time and anything he does professionally,

musically, I'm there for. But he's doing good. That whole thing. I mean, I did a very long podcast about that whole breakup and,

and it felt inevitable, but it's a very sad end to, you know, I was with that band for 17 years. So, but I guess it gives me more time to, you know,

go to Congress with Jeremy and do, go to conferences and stuff. and stuff. So it did free up my schedule a little bit. So I guess I'll be grateful for that. I don't know if we're going to give you back to the music world now that we got you in the UFO world, but that's all I was going to say, George's shout out to our good friend and brother Dave Navar, the creative phenom. You know, he's just such a good human being. And Dave, I know you're listening to Weaponize. So we love you, buddy. And by the way, just so the

audience knows, I used to prank called Dave Navar at the height of his fame when Jane's addiction was smashing and it was the soundtrack to my life. I somehow got his phone number through my brother's recovery program. And man, I used to prankle him all the time asking for guitar lessons as a joke. And the first time I met Dave was at the Lazar premiere. And I told him like an apology. He just started cracking up. So anyway, just shout out to Dave Nabarro.

And listen, Dan, it's really great. It was great to be able to hang out. You know, we're friends off of going to UFO conventions and all that. But having you there and seeing you get so involved and we're kind of reporting to me. all the dirt on everybody. No, I mean, you know, what's what you see at each conference, it was really neat to have you there. So thanks so much for sharing your UFO story.

Of course. And thanks for having me on your excellent podcast. Everybody should watch it. It's, say it again. Others from another mother. Others. Others from another mother. So hopefully you'll join us again more at length.

But, ma'am, I think people are going to like your UFO experience. So thank you so much, Dan. Dan Clary is a great guy. It's so good to have him a lot. long, you know, he is helpful to us in so many ways, and he's a good guy, good dude. So it was fun talking to him. We shift gears now a little bit. Our friend Matt Brown, whistleblower, immaculate constellation, the guy who was on three episodes and just blew the world's mind with talking about what he had seen on the inside, decided to get an account on X. And we both thinking, uh-oh, is this a good idea? And, you know,

we trust him. He is a really interesting guy, has a really solid mind, is a deep thinker. But he came out with some stuff, some posts that have people in the UFO world scratching their heads. What the hell is you talking about? What does this mean? And wondering if he went off the deep end, you are the Matt Brown whisperer. So tell us what your take is on the things that he posted. Yeah. So he created, you know, an ex account that is like public under his name. And, you know, it's a really treacherous thing because he's dealing with like real world implications. He's just out of government. He has to, you know, figure out how he's going to, you know, live his life and, you know, pay his rent and do all the kind of very terrestrial things.

But as we know, he's been really affected by his experiences being accidentally exposed to UAP information so much so that he did his own multi-year internal investigation, like an all-source analysis. and he was, you know, I don't know, uncovered or was able to see and be exposed to information that, man, it's given me on to logical shock from time to time, right? So you've got somebody who's put it all on the line for the American public is thrust into the light, you know, publicly when it's somebody who's always been behind the scenes, you know, so it is natural, you know, people are like, he's on X and he just did this. kind of cryptic post, is he okay? Is he under threat? Matt is fine. Matt is completely okay. He's got a dramatic, you know, writing style on, on X, but he's talking about things that are extremely dramatic and things that he feels are important. So, you know, separate from the personality style of what he wrote, there's very specific sections that I think people are

not understanding missing or I want to help clarify to the best of my ability. There's AI assert. assertions and then there's UAP assertions. But if you just kind of read through it, it's very specific. So I'll try to break a few of them down just like, what did Matt say? Look, I don't speak for Matt. Matt speaks for himself.

And I happen to know you're going to hear more from Matt. I think that George, I think that, you know, there's a lot to do on that. But for now, I'll just tell you what I saw. So this is my opinion, what I saw in Matt's tweet. So first thing is the AI assertions, there were three main assertions. And I don't know, is this correct information? I think people need to speak for themselves.

But the first one was that the White House has long possessed a unique AI capable of accurately predicting a range of future events. Now, actually, that's what we were just talking about with Ernie. How cool would that be? How cool would that be? Have an advisor in AI that's not yet public. I don't know. Let's find out if that's true later. He also brought up that Sam Altman betrayed Elon, which is a very public thing.

And I think people understand a little bit about what that's about in popular culture. But when he was talking about, you know, murdering a synthetic sentience, you know, from what was in the public realm. To be clear, he's talking about Sam Altman. He's the, the assertion is that Sam Altman and why he was thrown out of the company is because he, quote, unquote, murdered or deleted or however you want to say it, a true. or synthetic sentience. And that has been speculated a whole bunch in the media about what was going on when Altman was in all that hot water. So anyway, that's kind of to decode what Matt was saying when he says, you know, we have not forgotten who is responsible for murdering the first sentient artificial intelligence created in the public realm. That's what he was talking about. That's the assertion. Now, I think everybody's going to have to kind of hear more about that and learn about that. But when he got to the UAP assortions, assertions. That's what was really kind of interesting. And it's kind of easy to decode, but I want to give you a little more information. When he talks about any, he mentions the year in 1947. And look, if you don't know about this post by Matthew Brown, the guy that we had forward as a whistleblower, we could probably put it up on the screen so you can kind of see his exact words. But he mentions the year in 1947, knowing that, that's not just about Roswell. I think he's also implying the founding of the U.S. National Security State. And I think, that's also like a double meaning to that year and why he put that in there. He mentioned a program, an alleged program, but actually I know it to be true that it is a

program called marsupial. And what I don't know is exactly what that program did. But his assertion is that the national geospatial intelligence agency, the NGA, that it's able to track, he said, all those non-structured light energy craft flying around the world. He means UFOs. So straight up, he means UFOs. And he said, but they were lying to you when they said, we don't know how they work. So clearly, Matt, it's saying that we do have some understanding how UAP UFOs work.

And that's something we've talked a lot about before. But very specifically, he was kind of taunting like Elon Musk, hey, if you have all the clearances, which was the famous quote of his, right, then he's telling him, look, I'm going to break this down, George. It's something that we saw in the written form of Lou Elizando's. congressional testimony on congressional record in the written form, he named a location. And it's the Pax River facility. And so Matt is saying in his ex post that, look, there must be something really cool at that facility dealing with NHI or non-human intelligence craft. And again,

Lou's written about that on congressional record. Would Lou put that on congressional record if he wasn't trying to task people to go look at it? That's why it's so crazy. People say, like, lose some disinformation guy about this. He's literally giving like the street address for Congress to go find the NHA materials. Guys, do you realize what Lou Elizando just did when he did that? So Matthew is kind of doubling down on that. Maybe he has some direct or indirect knowledge of that facility being important because Matthew also named a Mentium corporation as being in charge of some of this derivative

technology. and even more specifically, Matthew Brown said that there are special project hangers owned by a Mentium Corporation that hold UAP-related projects at Pax River, and he was very specific. And I thought this was interesting. I actually asked him about it, which is make sure to look up. He's like saying to Elon, make sure to look up. I'm like, look, look, look, look. What are you talking about? And basically what he's saying is that there is.

there are ways to show people what it's entirely possible to show people what look like empty hangers and like actually literally you need to look up in those hangers so maybe he has some information that i don't but i sure could use like a chris ramsie to tell me what kind of illusions can be done in special project hangers like that so the takeaway in total that i think people should walk away with from matthew brown's post first of all he's fine he's good We are checking in with him every day to make sure how's your, how's your life, how's your, your, your pets and animals, what are you going to do for a job? Has anybody come to you in black?

Has anybody to come shake you down? Here the rumors I hear, or any of them, true, Matt. So we're always checking in with him as a human being and as a friend. But what, so I know this to be correct. What he wants you to take away from his post. And maybe he'll be more like straightforward with future posts. But basically those calling for catastrophic disclosure. he believes are not currently equipped to recognize when that happens.

And the fear is that we will miss it because it will happen right in front of her eyes and we will fall into some struggle of cognitive dissidents with no clear map out. That's kind of what Matt is feeling that our leaders have not equipped us at the, kind of at the public at large level to handle the truth about UAP. And the easy way out for us is to kind of turn to authorities and accept their confirming lies and, you know, just instead of like the uncomfortable truths, whatever they are. So that is really what Matt was saying to you, was trying to alert you to. And I think that he's kind of used to operating over the last number of years and kind of like a stealth mode.

And I think he was hoping people would pick up more specifics on that. But that's what he meant, George. That's what the text was about the ex post. And I hope he does throw down more. in different forms to kind of unwrap what he knows, what he's directly knows and experience, and what he thinks, because he's a deep thinker. I really appreciate his mind and the way that it works.

Yeah, I mean, we got messages from people who didn't understand it going, what the heck, you know, what's going on? Did he lose his mind? No, his head is solidly on his shoulders. He's a deep thinker, as we've said, and sometimes things that he says go over people's heads. He also mentioned in one of his messages a couple of locations that people should look at other than the Pax River, the Nevada National Security Site, which I've been to dozens of times, and also Dougway Proving Ground. There have been stories about those locations over the years, and this might stir up some new investigations in those directions.

I think that the title of his ex-page, son of Abramalan, a Bramalan, a son being. S-U-N, not S-O-N, probably threw some people off, too. Deeply esoteric stuff there. That's an interesting rabbit hole to go down. I'm going to have to spend some time getting up to speed on that, I think. Yeah, he's a student of Gnostic stuff, you know, of kind of mystical stuff. He's a student of that, you know, so he, like, meaning just that he enjoys reading about it. You know, we talked about it, you know, over the last year about what he's interested in.

So, yeah, maybe it threw people off. But look, people got personalities, man. Deal with it. But, you know, the main thing for me is what does Matt know? What is, like, for example, if we ever see the next UFO hearing with whistleblowers soon, because everybody's saying we're going to do it. So if we do that, it'd be nice to have people to come and talk about what it is they directly know. Did they directly have hands-on craft?

What exactly were they exposed to? And even though, like, Matthew Brown has a small part of that, I think his voice is valuable. I'd like to hear him on congressional record under oath saying here's specifically what I found out through my investigation. This is what I know to be true. These are the documents I've seen, the videos I've seen, that sort of thing. Because he's mentioned stuff verbally that you and I have been exposed to in other realms prior and after. So we know that he has seen some shit. Yeah, it's always great to hear from him.

And it's good that we both try to stay in touch with him to make sure things are going well in his life. Because, I mean, he's facing some serious challenges going forward. What's he going to do to make a living for the rest of his life? All the time he spent preparing for a career in government as an analyst and dealing with sensitive information, that's gone. That door is closed forever. This is the problem. The problem is whistleblowers have no safety net. When they come forward, it's done.

It's over. Grush knew when he stepped into that that it was done for him. I mean, he even left behind part of, I don't you call it a pension or whatever it is, your retirement. He would have gotten a promotion and he didn't. And that's an injustice because he was. whistleblown. I think something that they're working on right now is to make sure that Grush Gresh gets his formal pay that he would have made if he didn't have to whistleblow. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet.

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Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carrano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry and the best heavyweight in the world, Frances Nganoe versus Felipe Lins.

Watch Rhonda Rouse is Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th and 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. One other point we should make before we end this episode is about our friend Chris Mellon. He spent a lot of years on intelligence matters, 10 years on Capitol Hill, working with these Senate committees and then 10 years at the Pentagon. Again, looking at intelligence matters. He's been a leading voice pushing this UFO ball down the field. This week, he came out with sort of an impassioned message. What's it say? Yeah, so he put out a video on his ex and I encourage everybody to go to Chris Mellon's X account. And what was striking to me or kind of just what was the most important takeaway, he's talking about stuff that you and I, George, obviously we know from the UFO world, but it's this beautiful little production he did in his office.

And I just like hearing a guy like Chris Mellon who has that kind of attitude and who's been around those circles. Just break it down about UFOs. It's a nice little clip. Shout out to Chris Mellon. everybody go to his ex and check out his video was really cool. But since we're doing that, got a couple more shoutouts. I just want to say,

look, it was cool to see Jesse Michaels on Joe Rogan. I love those intellectual talks about UFOs. And Jesse has an encyclopedic memory when it comes to a lot of this kind of technological aspect that relates to UFOs and UAP. They did talk about John Lear and Jesse floated his theory to me. And I know John has said a lot of stuff.

I mean, it's not as McLevelian as people make it out, but for sure, they knew John would be a leak. One of the first questions Lazar ever got when he went in, as you reported George, when he went in is, what's your relationship to John Lear? Well, they damn well knew what his relationship was. So for sure, some of that was probably catch and release, and they wanted to test public waters and be able to discredit Bob. But that was just, look, a shout out to Joe Rogan, a shout out to Jesse Michaels. Jesse, you did great. It was so cool to hear you guys talk like two friends talking about UFOs, man.

We need more of that. I loved it. Last shout out is comedy, man. Henry, last podcast on the left, they roped you in, George. You sat down with those guys. You guys were cracking so much jokes. I was like stunned. But Henry did like a comedy show.

Apparently I left in the middle because I had to get sleep to talk with you the next day. But they ripped on me hard, man. That's what I was told. After I left, this whole set where they ripped on me and I wish I had heard it because I'm sure it would have made me laugh. Henry's a good dude and all the guys from podcasts on the left. Thanks for having us on and you're awesome. So those are the shoutouts, but now I've got to get serious with you, George.

I got some serious things to ask you for real, real. We do know that this was probably the first disinfo strike with the Tim Phillips interview that came out. So we know the former director of Arrow, Tim Phillips, such a joker. Oh, my gosh. But, you know, look, there's a new video of him talking and spinning his BS. So that'll be interesting to see what he says, because I think some of it will be illegal if he's admitting to, you know, kind of pulling the wool over Congress's eyes. But also kind of interesting that I don't know much about it and you know a lot more about it, George. But I think there's going to be another hit piece from Wall Street Journal. They'll probably focus on Lou Elizondo or something like that. We'll see. I don't have a crystal. ball. But I do know that those AASAP leaks, you should talk more about them, but what I recognize is we called them out last time, like, oh, if you got them put it out. Well, they did. They put out a bunch more information of AOSAP. But what they did in the narrative was all of a sudden, here's how I know that they're full of shit. Here's how I know the leaker, that stuff is full of shit. Because they brought me into it now.

And they said that, like, I've secret photos of Lou Elizondo all the times he's come to my home to me. Absolute bullshit. Loo's a friend. He's been to my house. Fuck hell didn't train me. We like swam in the pool or hung out. So it was,

it's so funny to me that they say they have like secret photos that I took and they want me to go public and call their bluff. Well, I'm calling your bluff. You don't have those photos. Those photos don't exist. The rest of what you said is bullshit too. So you got,

you got your way. I'm calling your bullshit out. But tell us about the leaks, George, because that is real. You tried to get stuff on a congressional record, and now it's out in the public, so please, tell me about that. First thing is, I think there are two leakers. I think there's the leaker who took some information

a monocum number of pages and used that as currency to establish credentials and made those attacks on you, and I think that guy's full of shit. Secondly, there's a leaker who posted documents from the OSAP program, from the Bass Files, the DIA's UFO investigation, put them up online. One of those documents is what we call the TICTAC report. So, 2023, when we were working with that congressional committee, that's the document I wanted to submit because it's a very detailed engineering and physics analysis of the TICTAC. What we know about its parameters and capabilities, and the ultimate aim of that program was going to be that we can make our own, figure out how it works and make our own. That's what it

wanted to do. That's what the DIA hoped to do. So I put that report together. I wanted to give it to that committee, it's not mine to give. It's not a report that is mine. I've made promises and being able to see it to begin with, so we weren't able to, but now it's out there. So we should alert the committee because, you know, all those OSAP documents, as we have said many times, all that should be out. There's no reason that the public can't see it. But I would hope that there had been some redactions because some of those documents, there were more than 100 reports put together by under that OSAP program, by the Bass team. more than 100 reports. None of them had been released until now that a couple of them been leaked,

but they should be out there. However, there's some very sensitive personal information in some of those reports, people with health consequences because they got too close to a UFO, or were in some cases attacked by unknown objects, and their names should not be part of this. There are no redactions so far, which is really, that's not the way to go. I don't know what the alternative would be, because DIA still says we can't find these things. I don't know if they're pretending or if they were buried so deep that the DIA really can't find them. But there's a lot of great information in those ASAP reports. I'm going to check into how much further we can go public without upsetting any promises,

confidences that I agreed to. But there's a lot of great information. More is coming out. And we'll be talking about that in great detail in a future episode. Yeah, I mean, to be clear, I remember you're standing there with this thick, ass printout and we're in Congress and you're trying to get that on to congressional record so the world could have it. And I understand the confidentiality and what you, you had to make that moral choice of, I gave my word as a reporter. I gave my word. So you couldn't put it right on

congressional record. But look, now that it is out there in public realm, maybe there are other things that you have had access to from time to time that you can get into public. And I really hope you can, George, because if you did have some of that information, I do think the public would benefit from it. And as you've given your word, but you're going to do your best to get more out. So that brings me to the end, which is like, you know, what is our path forward? You know, how do we make progress with this? Like, I don't know what disclosure is, but I know step by step, how are we going to move forward? And what I can say for sure is that it's going to be more whistleblowers.

it's going to be, I guess, unfortunately, it's going to have to be if you and I obtain stuff and we can release it, military film footage of UAP, hopefully diverse, you know, hopefully diverse types of footage. You know, we're always making sure that we're doing the right thing for America. We're doing the right thing for national security. But we've obtained so much over the years. And I think that we've got to do our best and put our best foot forward and put our best stuff out. So you and I are going to try to do that. And finally, I want to hear your mantis.

Garden is now famous around the world because Chris Ramsey made a short film and there you are and you have famous Mantis now. First it was your cat on CNN and a UFO article. Now your Mantis Garden is out there. That was so cool to see George in Chris Ramsey's new documentary. He just released on Area 52 on YouTube. There's a section of you just mantis and it comes up. It's so cool, George. Yeah, I must have sent him 250 photos or videos because I, you know, I've been a little bit obsessed with it. I might have got carried away in that discussion with them. It was kind of fun, but I do have a thing for mantises,

and I do have a little mantis sanctuary, and a little too much mantis-themed art on the walls of my home. It is starting to look like a little bit of an obsession. I have emails from you. It was 10 years ago this year. I have emails from me when you found that little piece of wood in your pool, and then the guy's basically knocking on your front door, and you save the mantis.

And now every year, May 1st, boom, Georgia's personal mantis sanctuary explodes it's so cool to see that you didn't go too far tell the truth man you love the mantis thing it was it was just neat for to see that personal side of you anyway george it was great rolling with you as always we got some things to do let's do some journalism man yeah things coming up okay let's do some serious journalism in america and a free society as journalists okay talk you soon