WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - UFO Debunkers Feel The Summer Heat

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

One year ago this week, members of Congress held an extraordinary public hearing in which credible witnesses testified about an enormous UFO coverup by the military and intelligence communities. The statements of David Grusch, David Fravor, and Ryan Graves made headlines around the world and members of Congress vowed to continue their inquiry. In the months since then, the Keepers of the Secrets have pushed back. An error-riddled report from AARO attempted to discourage Congress and the media from pursuing UFO truth. And the former director of AARO has claimed that nearly all UFO cases are now considered to be explained, and that so-called UFO whistleblowers are simply misinformed. In this episode, Jeremy and George are joined by former DoD analyst turned journalist Marik Von Rennenkampf who just recorded an illuminating interview with former AARO boss Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, who shared his thoughts about famous UFO cases and renewed efforts by Congress to force the release of UFO files and evidence. ••• Marik von Rennenkampff served as an analyst with the State Department’s Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation. He was an Obama administration appointee at the U.S. Department of Defense. Follow Marik’s work on X at https://x.com/MvonRen and see his full interview with Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick on YouTube here https://youtu.be/Hc_8lcSANus. And be sure to check out his journalism work for THE HILL here https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4632952-the-pentagon-is-lying-about-ufos ••• Watch the three-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : https://tubitv.com/series/300002259 ••• GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail] For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Gimble was filmed at night. This is a basic detail about the most recognizable UAP footage in the world of all time. Most Americans have seen it at least once. How do I have to explain the most famous UAP videos to the governments the U.S. government's UFO chief analyst. Secrets, cover-ups, and strange phenomena. UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself. All these mysteries, all this time, are we ever going to get to the bottom of these?

My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't. I'm Jeremy Corbell, and for some reason people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is weaponized. This is Weaponized. Welcome, everyone. I'm George Knapp. Join my illustrious friend and colleague Jeremy Corbell. Jeremy, how you doing? I'm good, man. It's great to see you and great to be doing a weaponized. You know, back when I was in grade school, which was long before most homes and buildings had electricity or indoor plumbing, I remember about this time of year, kids would have to start thinking about their inevitable homework assignment, summer homework, what I did on my summer vacation. And I am still waiting for your report, Jeremy.

So I'm only left to guess what you've been up to. My guess would be up to no good, but maybe that's too harsh. How's your summer going? It's pretty good, man. Yeah, I'm literally plugging leaks, man. I'm just plugging leaks like crazy. You're not talking about information leaks. You're talking about plumbing leaks.

Yeah, yeah. Talk about water leaks. So that's been the last month for me doing that. But yeah, things are pretty good, man. I like seeing what's going on in, you know, the UFO community, UFO Twitter, but kind of like broader than that, you know, what's going on, just the conversations that I'm having with people that are fighting for the language, for UAP disclosure, the people that are trying to set up hearings, the witnesses that are

talking about going forward or not going forward. And then just cases, like people coming to us with videos. I know your email inbox as well as mine. Just, I mean, there's tons of sightings around the world. It's continuous. It doesn't stop. it's usually not the greatest footage in the world, but we try to follow up with everybody that we can. Just a side step before we jump into UFO matters, but I mean, it's been here in Las Vegas.

It has been hell on earth. I mean, it's July. It's Las Vegas. It's the Mojave Desert. So, you know, we know with great certainty what it's going to be like, it's hot, right? But after living here for more than 40 years, I have to offer my two cents. It is hotter than ever. I mean, we've already set this summer, set all kinds of heat records here in Las Vegas, in the Mojave, all over the West, really.

I know that we had seven or eight days above 115 degrees. At 11.30 at night, it's 100. I mean, you know, we had our earliest triple-digit day this year. All over the West, temperature records are falling and being set. And I know if you even mentioned the topic of it's hot, it triggers a lot of people. I mean, if I put something on X that shows 118 on my carmometer, within five minutes, I get 200 angry messages from people. No, it's not. It's not hot.

What are you talking about? What kind of conspiracy are you foisting on us? Angry people, weather bots. It isn't hot. It's nothing unusual. It's always been like this. It's cyclical. It's sunspots.

It's chem trails. Whatever it is, it's anything except climate change, but because that can't happen. And I'm just saying something is changing here. I've been hunkered down at home for most of the past six weeks. I don't want to go outside unless it's early in the morning or after the sun is set because it's too damn hot. You can fry yourself just walking to the car. And I don't know what it's like in your neck of the woods and your hidden bunker location, but it's hotter than crap here.

And something really is changing and is underway. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that because it's funny, man. you send me these images of your car motor? I'm like, dude, you should not get in there. That does not seem safe. So I don't know, man. It's hotter than Satan's balls. What can we say? You know, you mentioned about how people will still send us UFO videos, UAP, of varying quality and credibility. I get that every day. But I've seen people remarking on various social media platforms taking a dig, I think, at us. What happened to the great flow of UFO videos? Why is nobody leaking any more of this stuff. What would you say to them? Okay. I don't, I don't know specifically what

people are thinking, but yeah, look, the information is constant, it's steady. We do take our time with things before putting them out. That's always been, you know, both, we've been admonished for that. You know, people are like, what are you doing? Look, it takes time. It's not like these are sensitive issues. We want to make sure we do no harm. And that also that the information is valid. You and I are targets for misinformation, I think, more than the average bear. And that's just the way it is. So, no, I mean, there's no real reason. Right now, what I'm focused on is kind of behind the scenes, just trying to figure out, are we going to have new hearings? What are the social dynamics right now of potential whistleblowers, people that want to come forward? And then people in Congress and Senate

and Senate intelligence trying to see what else, what other information can we have? So I don't know I'm answering your question, but no, look, UFOs are constant. The information flooding in, it's always going to be, you know, powerful and constant. You and I reporting on it is probably 1% of what we receive. So I like to take my time with it, and we'll see. What's the implication, George? I don't understand. Well, I think the implication is that we've been shut down, that the men in black finally got to us and told us to shut the hell. up, which is not exactly the case. It's not exactly even close to the case. There is information that continues to come forward, but I would have to say that there is some credibility to the

allegation that the spigot has been tightened a bit. Yes, a lot of those images that we were releasing over the past two years, they were part of a report. The report was classified, but the images were not. So people could leak stuff to us without as much of a risk of going to prison. And that's been tightened up quite a bit, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, very kind of between you and me famously, you know, we are called toxic, you know, from anybody in the DOD. Like, you know, they're discouraging directly people from speaking with us or coming on our show, although that's had the opposite effect. I mean, I think more people have come forward to us since there's been that internal mandate, you know, but additionally, yeah, anything UAP related is under lock and key for sure. But I don't think that stops people from reporting to the degree that they can.

Again, we only report on like 1% of what comes our way. But we've given people a lot of information. Like we talked about the Japan UAP swarms in a previous recent episode. There's a lot of activity. There's people out on deployment right now that are seeing these UAP. And look, nobody knows what they are, where they're from, you know, what the point of origin is. You know, the story remains the same there. No matter what Congress and Senate, no matter what's going on in politics, the average person is seeing recording and reporting to us the same stuff.

You know, we're coming up on a one-year anniversary since that amazing hearing in the House, the UFO hearing. Yeah. Or David Grush, David Fravor, Ryan Graves, gave testimony, answered questions. You and I were hanging out and submitted some material to the committee and went on the record. And since then, public has been clamoring, hey, when are we going to have more of these hearings? And you've got people like Tim Burchett and other members of Congress saying, yeah, we're going to do it. The fact is, it's not happening. And there are, you know, variety of reasons.

You and I have talked about it a bunch of times on this podcast is that UFOs always take a backseat to other more immediate priorities and more immediate stories. And this is a brutal election year where the fate of democracy is supposedly hanging in the balance. and it is the focus of pretty much everyone in power, everyone in Congress, everyone in the White House, and in politics. They're all looking at that, Democrats and Republicans. UFOs are still a back burner issue. They're not a priority right now until the election is decided. That's where the focus of officialdom is. And yet some legislation has managed to bubble to the surface, some proposals.

The so-called Schumer-Rounds Amendment is back. It's alive. We can talk about that, obviously. But the prospect of hearings, I know you stay in touch with some of those members of Congress and their staff. What are you hearing about the likelihood of additional hearings? Yeah. So this is a, you know, a thrust. We are pushing for a second round of hearings. You know, no matter what anybody says, I can tell you definitively there's nothing set. There's nothing set right now. However, the interest is there. And so I've been thinking recently,

one of the things that we might want to push for is non-cooperative witnesses. I have and can provide a list of people with direct firsthand knowledge who are not willing to come forward just on their own volition. However, because of their knowledge, if people want to get to the bottom of it within government, they should subpoena these people. I mean, you know, they should. They should subpoena them and just ask them. It doesn't need to be public necessarily. So I am pushing for that. I am pushing to at least have the questions asked. And I think you and I talking with, you know, members of government and being like, look, here are the people. You can call them personally. However, you might have to take the next step in subpoena people. I think that a hearing of noncompliant

people, you know, is going to be probably the next hearing or it should be the next hearing is really put people under the microscope there. Ask them what's going on about the UFO topic. I, I don't know. I think that's probably going to be the next one because a lot of the people that would be willing. A lot of the people that David Grush has, you know, that he has interviewed in official capacity, I mean, none of those people, none of those people talk to Arrow or Dr. Kirkpatrick. I remember that from the beginning. They were completely aware that Arrow was just some sort of psychological operation to try to uncover who knows what and that kind of thing. and it turns out that's probably it, and they did not want to be involved. So the idea that Kirkpatrick is talking about that he has all the information, all of the

information, it's total bullshit. It's always been bullshit. Even in David Grush's classified ICIG report, he didn't name the names in that because they didn't have trust of that staying secret. So I know for a fact that Arrow and Dr. Kirkpatrick do not have all the information, yet the here. hubris of maybe not this department or this organization, but obviously Kirkpatrick himself, saying that they do have all the information and it's all nonsense and you can't trust pilots,

you can't trust witness testimony. I mean, come on. I know for a fact he's covered up a number of things. So when you look at a big picture, look, our government, people within our government, they're trying to give more hearings. I think we're going to have to do a hostile witness hearing the next time and really put people under the microscope. And I also think that the new Schumer Rounds amendment for 2025, the NDAA, it's like a second punch. It's the straight, jab straight. I mean, this is going to be interesting to see if that can be put into law.

Now, we did learn the Arrow tried to like shut that down and they did successfully with the last one. But I think it's very heroic. A lot of these people are behind the scenes. Like, how many times have we seen Senator Round? talk about the UAP, UFO issue publicly. I mean, very few. He's a guy that's really pushing it with Schumer

and trying to do it without, you know, jumping in the spotlight. So I hope, I really hope that this footage, sorry, I really hope that, you know, this second round of amendments, that it goes into law and that we start finding out more. You know, we saw, as I mentioned, the anniversary, one-year anniversary

coming up July 26th, then people might want to refer. their memories about what happened on that extraordinary day and some of the information that finally went public in such an austere and important setting. But so I hope people will rekindle their memories and revisit some of that material. But a lot of the same themes are coming up again. As you said, Schumer rounds, round two coming up, and an amendment to the NDAA has resurfaced. And it is kind of amazing in you, when you think about how much effort went into trying to kneecap Congress by Arrow and the Department of Defense, trying to defeat that

legislation, to stop it before I ever gathered much momentum, and then to discourage Congress from even asking questions. That Arrow historical report so laden with errors and mistakes and omissions really was a seeming PR effort to discourage Congress and the media from taking the subject seriously, and it failed. It very clearly failed. Senator Schumer, the Senate majority leader, clearly does not believe what Arrow told them. Senator Rowellon, same thing. We know other members of Congress who've been outspoken on the topic. Don't buy it for a minute. So in a sense, Arrow failed. And yet they're still plugging away, which is part of what we're going to focus on today, right? All new drinks are now at McDonald's, with refreshers like the strawberry-water

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Book it with Price Line. Download the Priceline app or visitpriceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. Yeah, so definitely. We're going to introduce a friend of ours and we're going to have a discussion. There's two things that I want to talk. talk about before. So in what you're saying, I want people to know, because this is not something

everybody hears, reprisals are real. We personally, George, we know people within government who have had severe reprisal on them just for participating in trying to come to UAP transparency. I hope those stories can be told at some point, but it is diabolical. That is real. And it's really hard to talk about that without being able to tell the full story. We saw it with grush, but beyond grush, people that want to come forward, also people that are behind the scenes working, you know, staffers and that kind of thing. I have personal direct knowledge that there is real reprisal going on right now. So at some point, we have to be loud about that so the public knows about it. We're going to introduce a friend of ours, but before we do it really quickly for

weaponized, I want to go fishing right now. There's something that's come on my radar, which is just last week on Tuesday, July 16th. Man, there was a pretty astonishing documentation. I received some videos. I'm analyzing right now. You know, they're okay, but I want to see if more people saw this. There were two craft that came over San Pedro. So people know San Pedro.

So it's kind of like if you look from Long Beach, you could have also seen it. But it was a triangle, George. So this is, I just want to show you a drawing from. from one of the witnesses who filmed it. And right now, again, I'm analyzing the footage, but just check that out. So this is Tuesday, July 16th, 8.58 p.m., two of these bad boys. One of the witnesses came forward to me,

here let me show people where San Pedro is right about there. It's looking out towards Catalina Island. And if anybody was Long Beach, San Pedro, or any of those areas on Tuesday, Huntington Beach, even you could have seen it, I talked to an individual who had binoculars on it, and that's how they could see this perfect triangle-shaped craft with three lights and then like a dull center, but like a circle. Now, this could be our military, but it was moving in a way without sound. I mean, I hope it was our military.

This craft sounded astonishing, but it was low enough over San Pedro that people of binoculars could see it, and there is some footage. But I'm kind of fishing right now. If anybody else filmed this last Tuesday, about 8, 58 or 9 p.m., going towards like 9.10 p.m., definitely send me an email because I'm trying to collect as much information as I can about it. Anyway, that was my fishing for the episode. But I want to introduce a friend of ours. It's somebody I've been very impressed with. So when people do journalism on UFOs, whatnot, sometimes they don't go into as much detail as this individual. I know he writes for The Hill. It's our friend Merrick. So maybe you could tell us a little bit about who is going to join us right now.

Marath von Renencamp has emerged as sort of a very clear and distinct voice and trying to get to the bottom of the UAP UFO mystery. He writes opinion pieces for the Hill, which is one of the premier news organizations covering Congress and politics in D.C. He takes on assorted debunkers and really gives them what they got coming. And he covers events behind the scenes in D.C. on the politics of UAP. He was not only an opinion writer, he was an analyst for the Department of Defense. So he walks the walk and talks the talk

before he worked for the Hill, knows his stuff, suffers no fools, and has written some terrific pieces for the Hill and as well as on social media posts that we've really been paying a lot of attention to. We're so glad that he's been able to join us here today to talk about an amazing interview he got with Sean Kirkpatrick a couple of days ago.

Merrick, are you there? Merrick, we're so glad to have you on weaponized. Jeremy and I read all your stuff. We're very impressed with the work you do. Can you give us a sense of, was there a moment of truth for you, where you decided I'm going all in on this? Because there are risks for a journalist, even opinion writers, in covering this topic, right?

There certainly are. And, you know, the moment of truth for me was, and let me just clarify, and I've said this before, I didn't think about UAT or UFOs. this is not on my radar. I missed the 2017 New York Times story. I was not tracking the story at all until I saw Commander Fravor on Joe Rogan. I think, Jeremy, you might have been on that podcast.

So, you have you to think in no small part for getting me down this rabbit hole. So that was kind of the turning point for me. You know, I thought it was a squarely tinfoil ad territory. And then Commander Fravor, you know, was on Rogan for several hours. I worked at the Pentagon. I worked with aviators in the same offices as fighter pilots and rotary pilots, helicopter pilots. And I know the type, right? I know how they carry themselves.

And Commander Fravor is the real deal. He was the skipper for a, you know, well-known squadron, as we all know. And that was really the selling point. That was really where things really started for me. got into several discussions with McWest, and that only solidified my interest in this, because I, after taking several deep dives and exchanging quite a few emails and having a few discussions with him, I came to the conclusion that his theories were not sets, frankly. And my discussion with Dr. Crickpatrick really underscored the fact that the Pentagon has no clue what is going on in those videos, and they certainly didn't back McWest theories. That's a long-winded explanation of how I got into this. I think as, and George and you were speaking about Senator Schumer, as some of these really high-profile members of Congress, the President, President Obama, President Clinton, President Trump have now engaged in this.

I think the risk, the stigma is slowly eroding. It's certainly still there. But my conversations with friends and colleagues have no longer started with a giggle. they've been more framed around the, what's really going on with that? And I got to say, and I know you guys have been harping on this, but the media has colossally failed the American public

on this story, to not report on the Schumer legislation in any meaningful way is astounding. So I'll stop pontificating and I'll leave it there for now. Let me ask you this. So The Hill, coincidentally, he is owned by the same company,

that owns my employer, KLAS. Next Star, News Nation, all under one umbrella, which of course sets off all kinds of new conspiracy theories. How much freedom do you have there? Do you get any pushback in writing, hey, do you have to write about UAPs this week? Come on. Yes. Thank you, George, for bringing that up.

I've seen that chatter quite a bit. I am personally interested in this. I am not an employee of the Hill. I am not employed by NextStar. I am an opinion contributor. I write about whatever. I want. They keep steering me, hey, you know, do you want to, do you want to go back to political stuff? And I say, brother, I've got no bandwidth after, you know, my day job, my life and the

UAP stuff. They keep pushing me away from UAP stuff. This is purely me. There's no, there's no ulterior motive. There's no man behind the curtain. I'm glad, George, that you brought that up and we can demystify that. It's, I think people just, some people cannot wrap their heads around the fact that people can actually be genuinely interested in this and there is data and there is an important and compelling story here and I do want to highlight that and that is I think critically important and missed in a lot of conversations. Jeremy? Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you kind of got into this like George. It's preposterous how much information is out there once you go looking and how little it's been covered. I think George is like

a newsman, you know, it really bruffled his feathers. Like he figured out I am being lied to This is not being covered properly. So he's like, I'm going to do it. Look, it takes people like both of you to just go for it out of personal interest. And Merrick, what I respect about your work is that you're looking for the truth. And we've had tons of conversations prior communications, whatnot. And I could tell from the beginning, you're not coming at it with, you know, hey, this is aliens. You're like, something's up and try to figure that out.

So I think it's great when I look at what you do, you're myopic. I mean, you really go into the detail. I mean, you stand your ground in ways I could never. You know that some of the details with the work that you've been doing, looking at all the videos and whatnot. I really appreciate it. It takes people to know, hey, I've been lied to. There's a preposterous amount of evidence.

And how do we get into this in detail, granular detail? And that's what I really appreciate about when you do a report. man, I learn something every single time. So I appreciate that. Well, thank you. And right back to you guys. You guys have been doing groundbreaking work for years. And I want to extend, you know, that sentiment right back to you, gentlemen.

We're doing our best, man. We might not be the best at it, but we're doing our best. There's a theme, a common theme in the work that you do, Eric, and that taking on debunkers, it is easy, as you know, to say, declare by, proclamation, that's debunked. The gimbal, that's debunk, Tick-Tac is explained, and it happens with the debunker personalities on social media, but also Arrow has picked up that same theme, is trust us, we know it's legit. So I think that is probably the most important contribution you've made, is you know the technology, you know the capabilities of these sensor systems,

what the pilots can see and do, and you push back on it. No, it is, it is a lot of easier to just declare something debunked than to actually debunk it. And I think that's probably the most important thing that you've done so far. Would you agree? I, George, I appreciate that. And I want to say I am by no means an expert. Yes, I work at Pentagon. I was, you know, I tangentially exposed to this stuff. I learned a lot of it just like studying this stuff, frankly. What I really want to see is, you know, we know for a fact that military air crews are are seeing extraordinary stuff. And we know that because if you go to the range fowlers,

that they've been released, hundreds of pages of them, and you can read through the redactions, you can see, you know, something I've never seen in my X years of flying, or I was stunned by that. And I,

it is, it is extremely difficult for, for those individuals to come forward. There are clearance and reputation issues. But I'm not an expert. Thank you, George. I try my best, but I want to see more of those individuals coming forward. And I don't know what the proper way to do that beyond having them go behind closed doors to Congress.

Because there's a, you want to talk about reputation and stigma. The military is really the kind of the center of all that. And that I think is a major cultural hindrance to getting more data and getting more information. Well, let's talk about some of the amazing stories you've broken in recent weeks and months. this week, you got to sit down with Sean Kirkpatrick, who up to now has mostly chosen friendly, safe, predictable media sources to talk to, people aren't going to really push back. I'd be curious how you managed to get him to sit down with you,

knowing that you asked them pretty tough questions. It was shocked. It was actually pretty easy. I sent him an email. A few days later, if you responded, and there we were. That's literally what it was. So and look, let me just, let me just, I want to be clear. I am grateful and thankful for Dr. Perpatrick to have taken as much time as he did.

We agreed to half an hour and we ended up going for, I think, an hour and 10 minutes. So first of all, kudos to him. I don't know if he knew who he was talking to because, you know, he seemed quite unprepared, but that's a whole other issue. I was very clear that we were going to focus the conversation on those three very well-known videos, the gimbal that go fast and the tick-tac, the Fleer 1 video. Short answer is he just responded to my email and I'm grateful that he did. Yeah.

Look, just the impression of it, I thought it was great. Look, we need communication. It's really cool. You guys are talking. But wow, you said unprepared. Like, that's an understatement. It was pretty wild to me how on point you were with just even like if it was night or day during the gimbal. event, you know, did you know about the NASA? Did you look at the NASA analysis of the GoFAS?

Like, it was pretty amazing to me how my impression was you've got a line, you're going to tow it, you're going to say, this is nonsense, you can't trust pilots, nobody that's come to me. And I know everybody, nobody that's come to me has come to me with anything substantial. It was just so bizarre to me. It was kind of like a comedy. Honestly, it was kind of like I was watching a comedy skit. But it was really. great because you allowed everything to be self-revealed. The following are moments from Merrick's interview with former Aero Director Sean Kirkpatrick. So the most plausible thing is that it is a stationary object moving with the wind.

I'll go against the wind. The wind's a hundred point out of West. I don't think even the likes of Mick West who spent more time than anybody on this has found a trajectory that finds this flying moving in the wind as a balloon 300 miles off the coast of Jacksonville. Okay. Because a lot of that is glare that you're also getting off of the reflection. That's why it's so apparently hot because you have to now and do the sun angles off. This is at night, first of all.

Okay, it was at night. Right? You allowed people to say what they're saying, but then to step into the pit in a way. So I just wanted to know what was your impression of that. Like, do you think that we are getting the straight. story for Mara. I've thought about this a bit. And there's a little bit of background here.

I actually met Dr. Kirkpatrick in November last year after a public event. And I asked him about the gimbal and the Fleer one, the Tick-Tac video. And he told me to my face that gimbal was a reflection off of the sun, off of some object in the distance with a straight face. I challenged him then. Several months later, just a couple days ago, he says the same thing. Gimble was an infrared reflection of the sun. As you said, Jeremy, Gimble was filmed at night. This is a basic detail about the most recognizable UAP footage in the world of all time.

Most Americans have seen it at least once. It was in a Scorsese Super Bowl ad for crying out, right? How am I in a position where I am some, guy, how do I have to explain the most famous UAP videos to the government's, the U.S. government's UFO chief analyst, expert? How is that possible, right? So either, in my estimation, he's either lying to my face or be, he is incompetent and ill-informed about the most recognizable UFO videos.

The videos that truly, in no small part, are the reason for. his office and for his, you know, his entire last two years in the government were because of that New York Times story which unveiled these videos. And he has basically no clue about it. I was astounded by that. I'll say one last thing. His office, the all domain anomaly resolution office. If there was a resolution for those videos, we would have heard about that the day that that was found and concluded, right? There is no resolution for those videos. Let's be crystal clear. And what we found in the data, in the repeatable, scientific, anybody can check this, our papers out, it's public, we want people to falsify our hypothesis. That's how science works.

We want people to put eyeballs on our work. The more, the better, to your point, the more communication, the better. The data say that those are highly anomalous incidents. So that's a long-winded way of saying, I was shocked. I should not have been in position of explaining those videos to the government's UFO analyst. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job

credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. As you know, you know, the precursor to Arrow, even before Amsog, the UAP Task Force,

they collected 144 excellent cases. 143 of those remain unexplained. Now we are supposed to believe all those are explained, and the only ones that aren't explained are the ones we don't have enough data for. I don't know. Do Tick-Tack and Gimble and GoFast fall under that category? That's a great question. So he will say, and I understand what Kirkpatrick said up to a point.

He said, there's not enough data. Well, dammit, there's enough data to say that there's something weird going on in those three videos. That is abundantly clear. But he's looking for a higher scientific. He wants proof that he can put in a peer-reviewed paper that this is aliens? Well, that's not going to cut it obviously with those videos. There's not enough data to prove that.

We can say that they're anomalous, and that should be a starting, right? George, you brought up a good point about the discrepancy between the resolved cases. To me, that sounds a little bit like going to go down the weeds here, but some folks might be familiar with the Robertson panel, which convened in early 1953, I believe, after the 1952 sightings in D.C., which were extraordinary. And up to that point, 20 to 30% of cases that were analyzed were unknown. This is all publicly available. After that, it went to like 3%.

So you're seeing this, you know, there's something, I think something is afoot. I don't know what it is. But you see a pretty remarkable shift in these numbers and these metrics after certain, right, offices are stood up or certain decisions are made that I think is notable and that should be studied. I want to add really quickly on that note that I found it fascinating that the Senate Intelligence Committee is requiring a review by the government accountability office of Arrow. If everything at Arrow was going above board and they were doing their job well, they wouldn't need to be investigated or under review.

So I don't know if that fits into the, you know, whatever narrative that might be. going on, but I think that is notable. Seems like the overarching theme of what you got out from Dr. Kirkpatrick was him saying, look, these senators who are interested in this, members of Congress, well-meaning, but really they're being misled. They're just wrong because I have seen everything. I've seen it all. I've seen all the testimony.

All the witnesses that David Grush has talked about it. I have seen it all. And it's all explainable. And everyone is wrong except for me and error. it's pretty cocky of him and I think you would probably agree it is not justified based on what he actually has seen and what he actually knows.

I think that's you know, this is, that's a much more interesting part of the conversation. The videos are pretty cut and dry. He does, he really has a very little clue despite having to, should it should know what is going on there. With the,

with the retrieval allegations, that is that is that is it's fascinating i agree there's a there's a massive disconnect between what we're seeing from very serious members on a bipartisan basis very serious members of especially the senate um for them and i think you were talking about this before but for for error to come out and say nothing to see here and for them to double down right and to require a government accountability office review of arrow on top of that um there's a major disconnect. I smell a story, George. We're news folks. I smell a story. Here. You know, it was like they, go ahead, Jeremy. Sorry. No, no, go ahead. I'm just going to say it's,

you know, we've seen them drop this, this new standard approved standard of evidence with these loaded terms. There's no proof of X being extraterrestrial. We don't have any materials. We know for sure are ET. We don't have any aliens, which is really not exactly what the standard job was assigned by Congress for them to find evidence of aliens, it was to investigate this stuff. But I mean, he seems to set a lofty goal that's sort of a false standard, is that that's not really what their job was to do, but he drops it in as a sort of loaded terminology to get members of Congress to move on. That's my guess. I think that's fair. I think that's an intentional word choice. I think that is, maybe it's, you know, I can't, I don't, I can't, I have no idea whether there are so many rumors that Kirkpatrick is part of some conspiracy.

I have no evidence to that. I lean towards he didn't want the job and he's, he's just like, there's nothing to see here. That's, that's just me. I could be convinced if I see compelling evidence otherwise. So I don't, I don't think there's, there's any nefarious, you know, plot for him to, to use this terminology and to really kind of, even stigmatize this topic. work. But you're right. It is intentional and it is notable. One of the, yeah, one of the big takeaways I got, and I know you're in contact with David Grush and Dave and I talk all the time. And one of the things was that Sean said, Dr. Patrick said, that he received, you know, basically Dave's ICIG complaint that was kind of washed of the reprisal aspect.

I find that so either hard to believe that ICIG would give him a copy that it was kind of washed, or maybe he did somehow obtain it in an illegal manner because the ICIG is so careful to protect witnesses. They'll call up Chuck McCullough and David Gresh and say, can we even tell, you know, Representative Birchit that you are a whistleblower? So they've been so cautious through this process. It was kind of shocking to me that he said that he had a reception. receive that data and run it down and there was nothing to it. Because I know for a fact, I mean, the first person to see any of this outside of the intelligence community was George Knapp, receiving the full, you know, unclassified version when Dave was very careful coming forward.

He was worried about his safety. So the fact that we know that the substance of this report, and we know that Dave didn't list his 40 witnesses by name so you could run them down because he didn't trust. Yes, even the ICIG at that point, it just seems so odd to me that he would make, do you think it was like his hubris that he would make some statement like that? Do you think he actually has any of the ICIG report? That'd be highly illegal if he did. Jeremy, I think you bring up the perhaps the single most important piece of my discussion with Dr. Kirkpatrick that requires urgent follow-up, right?

This is something that we need to. Somebody needs to chase down. We need clarity from brushed, McCullough, ICIG. I doubt will ever comment on something like this as it sounds like an active investigation. So I don't know what to make it. It is intriguing. It requires follow-up, as I said.

But to your point, you look up the law, the statute that governs the inspector general, the intelligence community. It's 50 U.S. 3033. Anybody can Google it. And it does say specifically that identity should be protected

and that a complaint or that information about a whistleblower should not be shared unless it's urgent and requires some other kind of investigation. So maybe somehow, and Kirkpatrick alluded to that, he said there was some special process that they had to go through to get it.

So maybe he got a portion of it. Maybe he got all of the non-retaliation stuff. this all just screams of we need answers and we need some kind of clarity from from somebody on what exactly Arrow has. Here's where I'm going to call bullshit on a lot of this. First of all, for Chuck McCullough and David Grush, if they do find out that information was shared in an inappropriate way, I mean, they're going to raise hell about it.

And they are asking right now. They are asking. But here's the deal. We know what's in that report. George and I do. So even if they did receive the classified. version of it, it didn't give the information that is being supposed by Dr. Kirkpatrick, where he knows everybody knows everything and it's just a knitting circle of all these people

sharing bogus information. You can't trust pilots. You can't trust witnesses. People are misidentifying secret government programs as UFOs. I mean, all this nonsense that has come out of his mouth. I'm going to call bullshit on it. I know for a fact that if he received even the classified version, he's not going to have the information he needs to go after.

that is something that is being processed through ICIG. And there's more to come on that. So I think it's really disappointing in a way that we're seeing somebody not work for the people, not work for Congress, who set up Arrow. We'll see where that lands. But I want people to be highly, acutely aware of that. You're being told something that we've researched everything, and it's all been nonsense. Don't trust pilots. That's the message. That's the message just come out. You rebuted that really beautifully. You're like, no, we looked at the data, and the data then confirmed what eyewitnesses were saying all along the way, depending on the range, let's say, of the gimbal or the range of the TikTok. You did excellent work with that.

It might be over people's heads, a lot of people's heads, but I've watched you and your team and people that you work with kind of go at this. And I think it's very valuable. Bottom line here, you know, you need to have some observance of the credibility. of people that have spent their life in the air, have been trained to do this and say, this is unusual. I've never seen this. I've never engaged anything like this.

And again, remember, with Commander David Fraber, that was daylight. That wasn't dark night like Dr. Caputum's trying to say to you that a lot of this is low quality information. This is a craft that came up towards the cockpit of Commander David Fraber. He saw very clearly with his eyes when it approached and when it left. And by the way, optical illusions are not picked up on radar. So anyway, not to beat a dead horse on this, but I just, we are getting bad information from the

people that are supposed to be investigating this. That as you said, Congress is like, wait a second, we need to investigate this because we don't even trust what Arrow has been putting out to us. Right. And Jeremy, you brought up a good point. And you're absolutely right. Some of the stuff really gets in the weeds. And I'd really try to keep it as high level as possible on the analyses. But you mentioned this, and I really want to reiterate this. Kirkpatrick and Hizil

can say, oh, you know, the pilot data is, it's just eyewitness testimony, it's worthless, we need hard data. Okay. What happens, and I brought this up, what happens when the hard data confirms witness testimony, right? When you have this

extraordinary match between the data and what people are saying, I haven't done the probabilities, I'm sure somebody could calculate, but the odds of some of the stuff that we found occurring are millions to one. I mean, it's just impossible for that to be a coincidence. And I want to quickly also sing the praises of my co-author. He is an actual scientist. He's at the University of California. He's a climate scientist. We have, we're fortunate to have him, an actual genuine scientist, not a pseudo-scientist who tries to be a debunker on Twitter or wherever. And we're, we're

fortunate to have an actual scientific mind that is actively engaged on this and he knows that what the Pentagon is putting out is nonsense. We need more of those though. That's the point. And let me just, I'll say maybe one more quick thing. I'll get off my high horse.

I'm writing and I'm covering this and I'm tweeting because I want to encourage more people to become involved. I want more people to be for their curiosity weaponized if you'll pardon the the say. I'm not going to get on the front page of the times. No, I'm just the guy writing for the Hill. Maybe, you know, if 10, 20, 30 people read that

and start digging on their own, then I've done my job and I'm happy. You know, so much of what Kirkpatrick says is basically, trust me, bro. I can't tell you which cases we're investigating. I can't tell you who the witnesses we talk to are. I can't tell you what the censor systems that we have looked at that debunk these particular cases. You just have to trust me that I've explained it all the way. Not only the public, but the media and Congress. Trust me, there's nothing to this. Move along, folks. And I don't trust him. I mean, for reasons that you've made pretty clear,

he doesn't seem to know a heck of a lot about the most best known and most important cases. And we know for a fact. Jeremy and I know for an absolute fact that key whistleblowers who have shared information with Grush did not talk to Arrow. They don't trust them. They don't even trust Congress. They don't feel like they can come forward, share the information, and they will be protected right now,

which is like a big reason that the Schumer rounds, amendment to the NDAA has a new life. You know, I'm just kind of disgusted by the assumption that we would all go ahead and accept his word for it, as he said in your interview, well, look, all these people looking at this evidence, there's no credible physicists who are there. Yeah, these guys work with these sensor systems every day. These pilots are the best we have. They're the best of the world.

They know what their planes are showing them. They know what they see with their own eyes, how the sensor systems work and the platforms. They know their stuff. Maybe they're not a physicist. They don't need to be a physicist to tell us something weird is going on, right? That's absolutely right. Absolutely right, George. Spot on.

I got to say, it's so funny. In that interview, everybody should go watch it. So on YouTube, Merrick released this, you know, over-hour-long interview with Dr. Shanker Patrick. I mean, caught him with his pants down. I'm sorry. I just got to say, you did. I mean, he didn't even know that it was nighttime during the gimbal episode.

But also, you were like, there are these step movements in the Gimbel. And he's like, well, we have one of those aflure pods. Like he has one. And you were like, okay, but like I've talked to the people that designed it, the people that work with it. I mean, you've done so much more research about how the thing actually uses the, you know, the system. And it was just, it was bizarre to me that, you know, you had done the steps. You had done the work. You had figured out with the people you work with exactly how this thing moves. And the response was, well, we've got. What, we've got. of those. Well, that doesn't mean that it operates differently than how the people that designed it have said. So when you really look at it, I think it's going to take people really pressing forward with these types of details, although it is over the head of like, you know, on mainstream news, you know, we'll look at those moments, you know, but these little granular details as you're having that conversation, it exposes so much of what we're being told and what we're not being told. So I don't know, man, I guess my question for you really right now,

is, you know, as you're interested in this and as you move forward, what do you think the path forward is for us to kind of learn more publicly about the UAP mystery? What do you think is next, Merritt? Yeah. It's a great question, Jeremy. And I'm cautiously optimistic, but at the same time, realistic. And I want to say, I mean that in the sense that I worked in the go. I know the national security.

mindset, and I get it up to a point. And the national security mindset is never share what you have to its own devices. The executive branch, the government, the intelligence community will never release any date, right? Or what they do release is nonsense. Or they'll only release some bogus, easily debunk, nonsensical cases, incidents. So, a lot, rides from my, from my perspective, assuming that some major whistleblower does it come forward in the next months or year, an enormous amount is going to ride on the Schumer rounds legislation. Because that legislation, as most people know, but I do need to reiterate, it says that all UAP records carry a, quote, presumption of immediate disclosure.

That's not, that's pretty astounded, right? That is a pretty remarkable juxtaposition from the government saying, nope, we're not going to release. We're only going to trickle out, you know, nonsense that is easily debunked and is not even worth talking about, frankly. Long way of saying a law rides on the Schumer Amendment, that review panel makes through into legislation. That, I think, will be the mechanism. Hopefully, should be the mechanism for us to get more data. I just want to be clear.

Even that the bunkers want, they're screaming for more data. They agree. They're saying, yeah, Arrow's not putting anything out. And that's not surprising again, given how the executive branch of the government functions. So that's a long-minute way of saying that I think Schumer Amendment is really the vehicle or the ticket to getting more information. Unless you guys want to pull a whistleblower or two out of your hats. We're trying. That would also move the needle.

It seems to me an overwhelming message from. the reintroduction of Schumer rounds, round two for that, is that they do not believe Arrow. Arrow puts out that ridiculous report. I mean, you've been in government, you've worked as an analyst and a writer, and looked at government reports for a long time,

that was pretty piss poor. Filled with errors, factual errors, and simple things that they should have been able to clerk. They put it out ahead of schedule. It was preposterous. Schumer round, round two, says very loud and clear, we do not believe you, Arrow, right?

This summer, serve up the cookout classics, Oscar Meyer hot dogs and Heinz mustard. Grill up a dog, add classic yellow mustard, or loaded Chicago style. We all know it's not a cookout without Oscar Meyer and Heinz. Absolutely, George, that report was barbage. It was abysmal. And I really want to point out one particular element that really rub me the wrong way. And I really didn't just didn't get a chance with time constraints to literally confront Kirkpatrick about this because it's a little in the weeds. But in the 1950s, the U.S. government commissioned a study, an actual, a truly scientific study of UFOs by Battelle who, fun fact, I think, runs Oak Ridge National Lab.

Who employs guests to Dr. Patrick Patrick. Yeah. But Tal conducted the study, scientists, true scientists, analyzing UAP instances, several thousand. And they found that 33% of the highest quality

UAP reports, multiple witnesses, trained witnesses with enough data to evaluate were unknown. The era of historical report said that all cases were resolved and or readily explained. That is astounding.

That is a blatant lie. It is extraordinary. And that's just that's just one example at Georgie. I mean, we we've nitpicked and I know Chris Mellon did a great job of really picking that report apart. But it is a, it is an atrocious piece of writing analysis. It is, it is abysmal. So I'm not shocked that Congress is not buying what Arrow is doing. Do better guys. If anybody from Arrow is listening, and I suspect that some of them do with with, I've heard two or three dozen people working there. I expect some people are fond on this. Do better. I mean, my goodness,

do a little bit of homework. Read Rupelt's book. Do better. Merrick, why in your opinion is this whole UFO big picture? Why is this UFO thing important? Why has it got under your skin? Why do you think it's important for America, Americans, and also the global public to know about this? What's the thing here? Why is this important, in your opinion? Yeah.

Many reasons. the obvious one being if there is some extraordinary technology it could solve X number of problems obvious we know that right energy so on and so forth we're in a politically fractured country I mean my god just look at the last week in the news cycle I mean I've aged about three years in the last week

and so let's let's set that aside there's also a trust in government there's a fundamental trust in government issue here the most powerful senator in the land has stated on the Senate floor that multiple credible sources have said that UAP information has been withheld from Congress illegally. That is a constitutional, we're at the borderline of a constitutional crisis, if that is accurate. And for him to go to, for him to go onto the Senate floor and to say that is pretty astounding. and he's not going to do that. He's a cautious politician.

All of these guys are cautious. He's not going to say that on a whim. And if there's any doubt, if there's any shred of a doubt as to these underlying allegations, they would have not have reintroduced the Schumer Amendment. Schumer would not have gone on the Senate floor

and in a bipartisan fashion, speak with Senator Rounds about this and make the extraordinary comments that he did. So just to reiterate technology, political discord, discord in this country, social, you know, cultural, schisms, and then also the constitutional issues.

Seems to me that the message from Arrow, that horrendous report, overarching message to me was, we're never going to give this stuff up. I don't care if Congress asked. I don't care how many media people bitch and moan about it. I don't care if the public cares or not or sees this as an important issue. We're not going to give this stuff up, not unless we're forced to. and they will marshal their forces, use the influence of those big defense contractors, affect key members of Congress, and try to oppose this again.

I mean, you hear Dr. Kirkpatrick in his conversation with you, these guys, it's really, you know, it's not all that important. They're just being misled. It wouldn't matter if the legislation passes because there's nothing to find. That's not the message I'm getting from them or Jeremy. It's that they don't want this to pass, and they're not going to give this stuff up. ever. And I want to, you brought up a good point there.

And maybe I, I want to hear your perspective, guys. In a couple of his podcast and certainly in his opinion pieces, Kirkpatrick previously, I think this is in January, February, March, he came across as more combative, more, these guys have a religious, they're stupid, they have a religious belief, they don't believe, they, you know, they don't buy, they don't believe in evidence. Maybe it was the end of the day. spoke with him, maybe he was tired. I don't know, but he didn't have that, that combative spirit

in him. And I don't know if, if the reintroduction of the Schumer Amendment may have, may cause him to rethink things. I don't know, but that was one thing that did, um, kind of stand out to me that he just wasn't as feisty as, as I'd seen him previously. And certainly what not when I was in person speaking with him in person. He, and this is just my interpretation, this could be open to any number of, you know, interpretations in this subject. But he's seen, the little condescending to me, talking down to me about the gimbal video or whatever. Didn't get that vibe so much when I spoke. Does that track with what you guys saw?

Yeah, I mean, what happened before, what was amazing is how thin-skinned he was back that, how he took it all personally. What did he think he was getting into taking that job? It was going to be an easy, breezy assignment, and then he could do it for a year and move on to some cushy job at Oak Ridge. I don't know, but, I mean, he's... seemingly had no understanding of what UFO world is like and how nasty it can get. And took it personally, those broadsides he issued on his social media platforms. Astounding for a

federal official in that kind of a position to go after it. I've seen these comments in your interview where he's talking about Bigelow and Reed and all these acolytes and UFO believers and they're all in it for their own motives as opposed to me who's just trying to get to the truth. I thought it was a cheap shot. And I tell you, if he really thinks that their efforts were so worthless, why not release it? Not one page of that stuff has been made public. It was the point that Jeremy and I made to Congress last year at that hearing. All right, if it's not classified, it's not sensitive, it's not credible, let's see it.

Let's release it. Where is it, Dr. Kirkpatrick? Let's have it. I agree. And Jeremy, George, I just want to quickly add one thing. and I think we can all agree. And if indeed somebody showed up at Kirkpatrick's house and started threatening him and assaulting him, that is inexcusable.

I just want to take a second to maybe turn the volume down. You're right. UFO world can be a little rough and tumble. That's fine. I enjoy it. It doesn't bother me. But there's no excuse for threatening people for harassment. That is inexcusable.

So I just, I do want to get that out there. That is not okay under any certain things. I agree. I understand the frustration, but not except. Yeah, I think anybody that goes down, you know, this path and kind of really hunts this, you know, you're going to experience that kind of thing. And it is inexcusable. That's not what we're trying to do here, you know, trying to get to the information.

And it's not attacking individuals that that's never really going to help. However, you've got to call out when there's bullshit. And you were able to really pierce that veil. There was one moment in your interview where I know in the past, Dr. Capatricka says, oh, NASA, they, they solved the go fast. And then you asked him, point blank, and he was like unaware that they didn't account for wind in that analysis. And you said something like, you know, well, planes don't fly in a void. Or, you know, there's an atmosphere.

So even the fact that the way that these things are being analyzed have these egregious errors. And then people don't even, like Dr. Patrick didn't even, like, know that analysis. although he's boasted about it before, man, we need to do better. All of us need to do better with this stuff. I'm really glad that there are people going into the scientific detail and trying to call bullshit when it is bullshit. A big picture just stepping back, you know, I don't know what this UFO thing is. George and I've been, you know, down this path, you know, George for a long time. We don't really know what this UFO thing is, but we do know that it is real.

and we do know that it is covered up. And we do know that there's special interest that they unfortunately will attack people who are raising their head above the parapet on this, from journalists to whistleblowers. And it puts us in a weird position because look, there are people with direct firsthand knowledge of these programs,

maybe even actively participating right now. There is footage of crash retrievals. That footage exists. But bringing people forward that they have to be motivated to do so, good of America, good of humanity. I don't know. But the only way they can do that is if they see that people are protected, that whistleblowers who do bring their head above the parapet are taking care of, that they're not harmed

unnecessarily further. We haven't even resolved the David Grush testimony. We haven't even begun to resolve that yet. And I think a lot of us are waiting to see what happens with that. What happens with the ICIG complaint? What happens publicly? So I'd really encourage people at this time. And I'm sure you guys agree.

You know, we need to get to the bottom of what we have now. Right now, there's everybody in the Senate intelligence of Congress, they want more witnesses, more people. Do something with the information that has already been brought to you. That's what we're all waiting for. So as the UFO train keeps rolling on, like as the information just keeps coming in, we need to make sure to monitor that and that we do good by the people that have come forward.

That's the path forward in my mind is we really need to do something with the information that's already come forward. We agree more. Well, Merrick, thanks very much for your time. Do you have anything else, Jeremy, you want to talk to them about? I mean, we could go on for two, three hours. Yeah, no, no, just Merrick, where can people find you?

Because I follow you on Twitter, but if you can be really clear, how people can find you because I think they'll find value in your articles and kind of following the lines of thought, where can they find you? Thanks, Jeremy. So yes, Twitter and Twitter, gosh, I think I'm at M. Von Wren. I think that's what it. I'm actually. We'll put it on the screen, bro. Yeah. Yeah. And then I do write for the Hill. Just truly on a, you know, on a, on a freelance basis. So, you know, if something happens, something interesting comes out, then I'll write about it. And that's, that's that's that's how to follow me. Thank you guys for having. Yeah. Thanks for joining us, man. And we all got to push together. and try to get to ground truth on all this. So just keep up the good work. And I hope our audience kind of checks out your work. So thanks a lot, Merritt.

It was a great conversation. I hope people check out the full interview. It's really good. I think he shows the emperor has no clothes in a sense, you know. In a very diplomatic way, just he kneecap the guy in my estimation. Yeah. And look, it should be done the way he did. I think it was great.

You know, look, our greatest enemy is just the idea that, you know, people are telling the truth. And so when you catch them in those moments, it's great. The UFO thing is always going to be difficult, untangible. Like your friend Whitley Streber has said a bunch, the true architects of the secrecy are the visitors themselves. So whoever these visitors are, I think it's about time you've come forward. But we're just going to have to keep plugging away.

And thanks so much, George. It's great to do it weaponize with you. It's great to talk of Merrick. You know, I think Merrick Grades is an interesting point about the Patel study. Stan Friedman, our late great friend, Stan Friedman, used to say, contrary to what the DoD would like us to believe about UFO cases, the more information you have doesn't make it easier to explain the best UFO cases, like what Battelle looked at. The more information you have, the more inexplicable those cases become, because there is no real explanation for them. And so it's a good thing to keep in mind. You know, on the date we're recording this episode, Jeremy, on this date in 1969, humans stepped foot on the moon for the first day.

time. And it was, it's that kind of an effort, a spirit of, of adventure and inquiry, honest inquiry, trying to reach for the stars. It's the kind of thing we need for this UFO mystery to get to the bottom of it. Yeah, man, that's amazing. I didn't, I didn't recall that was the date. Hey, look, I want to say something though. People say I hate Stan Freeman and I beat them up one time. There's this video going around and people are saying, I, you know, no, that's not the truth, man. I had dinner with Stan. I like Stan. I just want to mention that. During the Lazar thing, George, when he was talking a bunch of nonsense where he got it wrong about Lizar, but it was like, that's what I kind of went on stage with him.

Look, from the outside, it can look like people don't get along because you're having a spirited debate. But I think most people in this community who are interested in this, you know, on some level, everybody gets along because we have the same thing. We're all interested in this topic. So, yeah, I think you're right, man. It'll take a huge effort just to kind of, go outside, you know, like you're saying, like the idea of landing on the moon,

we need to reach beyond our grasp. Is that the same? Your reach should be beyond your grasp. And I think with the UFO thing, that's absolutely true. Yeah. All right. Well, you take care of yourself this summer and I'll talk to you soon. Stay out of the heat. You too, man. You're, you're, Vegas is the worst. Sounds good. All right. Talk to you. All right. Talk soon. Thanks, George. has so few, had so much to tell, but could say so little.