WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - UFO Earthquake - Dr. Lacatski's Bombshell & AARO's Shaky Ground

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Two topics dominated UFO conversations this week… an underwhelming UFO report issued by the All-Domain Anomalies Resolution Office (AARO), and the astonishing revelations from former DIA intelligence analyst and UFO program manager Dr. James Lacatski. Lacatski's comments last week on WEAPONIZED generated strong reactions from the UFO public around the world. Jeremy and George sort out the impact of statements made by Lacatski and his co-author Dr. Colm Kelleher, and also take a deep dive into the new AARO report, why it failed to deliver what the public demands. As an added bonus, we resurrect an interview from the 1990's in which a legendary intelligence official candidly spoke about crash retrievals and reverse engineering programs.  •••  GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail]  For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media.  Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's like we have different species of humans on this. I'm quite certain there's different species of alien life forms. So we could run into mental evidence. In fact, President Reagan on several occasions, alerted concern about the potential hostilities from outer space. We know for a fact that the U.S. government has solid information about negative health effects from being in the proximity of UAP UFOs. And people, commerce individuals will be speaking

with the Department of Defense, Inspector, general. Now, when they, when they have this, it only took a couple years to get this meeting to go to place, but the idea is that the DODIG, they're going to work with Congress and kind of let them know about some of the stuff going on. Secrets, cover-ups, and strange phenomena. UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself. All these mysteries, all this time, are we ever going to get to the bottom of these? My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't. I'm Jeremy Corbell, and for some reason, people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is weaponized.

Hey, Jeremy, how you doing? Good, man. How you doing? Busy week in UFO world. Arrow came out with its long-anticipated second report. Did you read it? Oh, yeah, I read it, man. You know, it's the same thing. Oh, my little puppies, my little boys crying about the Arrow report.

Everybody's crying about it. Oh, okay. So, so yeah, man, it was, it was kind of towing the line. Like, they use all these things, like, during our investigation timeframe, we didn't find any negative biological effects on people. It's like, it's really frustrating to people like you and me and people that know a broader scope of the UFO history. You've got Sean Kirkpatrick, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, kind of like tallying up the recent, you know, things that they've seen that the military, has been able to film or document. But isn't the whole point of error that there are these illegal programs, that we have been reverse engineering, that we have these things within private defense contractors, and they're just playing around with things they see in the sky? I mean, if we have these things on the ground and they've been notified of that, which we know they have, what game are they playing?

I don't get it. Well, it's a game that we've seen many times before. I mean, we've seen this movie. We saw it with Project Sign, which was the first really big Air Force study of UFOs. The staff members came up with what they thought was a compelling case that these were possibly extraterrestrial, but they knew that they weren't ours. And the guy who was the head of the Air Force at the time put the kibosh on it. He wouldn't allow that report to be made public. So then you have Projects Grudge and a Blue Book that came out that basically did their best to explain away UFO cases,

even when the explanations were more outrageous than the possibility that these are from somewhere else, some non-human intelligence. You know, Project Blue Book was a public relations exercise. It's starting to feel like Arrow is the same thing. You know, they're ostensibly supposed to investigate these sightings, and it sounds like they are. I mean, in terms of the good news of what we heard this week, it's that Sean Kirkpatrick saying that they've received dozens of reports per month. So at least there is a flow of reports. Some of the stigma has decreased to a point where military pilots and military witnesses and some commercial pilots will go ahead and file reports.

That's a good thing. It's good that they've got a total of 800 or so, which is up from 650 the last time. But you start to feel the creep of what we've seen before. Half of these are easily explained. They're balloons and drones. only two to four percent are truly anomalous, I think Kirkpatrick said, and require further investigation, only a very small percentage display, quote, unusual characteristics. But it was interesting to me that Kirkpatrick gets out in front of this report.

He goes on CNN to spin it before the report is actually released. Did that catch your attention? It sure did. I'm sorry. I just have to say, this is my little boy. He is really crying about the error report. Yeah. right so there's nothing i can do he's going to do a little crime so yeah that that was something

that really struck me was that we see immediately before this report comes out dr kerpatrick you know he straight up gives an interview to cnn to absolutely try to spin it try to put it in his favor and they were compliant they were like oh cool great so it was really bizarre i i just you know here's the deal you you have always said that with arrow they have to earn our trust. They haven't done that. There have been lies for decades. And I was like fighting for them. I'm like, come on, man, this is really cool. It's going to be okay. But I do see what you're saying now, which is that the way everything is worded, it is absolutely a whitewash. And that's not even what we know they've been told and have not investigated or have covered up. So when it comes to just

reports coming in from the military, they go above and beyond to try to dismiss and try to show cases that are already resolved as if we need a lesson on what that looks like when things are resolved, right? So, yeah, man, it's really, it's really annoying. At the same time, I think the real frustration I have is that we know for sure David Grush says, we have the locations. I know the program names. I've got hostile, non-hastile witnesses, but we know that Arrow is not pursuing.

that in a public way and they're and they're even throwing it back in the face of the people that we know some of whom we've sent to testify to error i'm never doing that again by the way so yeah man it's it's really frustrating if people go read the error report you know it's like this little bait and switch thing it makes you think that they're doing something legitimate but then they're edging towards oh we can verify everything this might be this might be adversarial tech did we have this adversarial tech before our even existed. I mean, come on. Yeah, I thought Kirkpatrick's comments to CNN about Grush and other whistleblowers were pretty telling in that he said something like he dismissed the sensational claims saying, quote, he has no evidence that suggests anything as extraterrestrial in nature.

And I'm not sure that Dave Grush ever used the word extraterrestrial. It was non-human intelligence. And then he said, if anybody thinks they know what these things are, they should be coming to talk to us. That's why we've set up this entire architecture for people to securely come in and talk with us. Well, you and I know people who have come in to talk to them, and they don't seem to be taking their testimony very seriously. We know people who have provided information to other alarms of the U.S. government. Arrow has either hasn't paid attention to it or hasn't gone after it or hasn't read it. And then, you know, lastly, I guess we know people who have been invited to speak with Arrow, but are not

going to get within 10 feet of that office. They don't trust them. They don't believe that they're doing an honest investigation. And there's no way that they're going to come up and cough up what they know to Sean Kirkpatrick or his staff. I mean, I would actually argue that they've taken very seriously the testimony, but they've completely locked that in to not allow that to be part of public disclosure. When people go and talk with Arrow, there's this new thing. When they submit, it becomes part of an investigation, they can no longer talk about it. So they become silence just because they went to error. That's what I'm hearing from people that did actually go and testify. So it's kind of this catch-22 where I think they are taking things very seriously when people

say, I was in this program, this was the name, this is what we did. It was exploitation of non-terrestrial NHA, non-human intelligent craft. And then they just lock it up. So I think it's more diabolical than they're just not taking it seriously. I think this is a positioned, organization, like Blue Book, like Project Sign, Project Grudge, where they're trying to get as much information, oh, come, tell us the information, and then lock that shit down. That's the fear and the understanding of a lot of people

that have come forward to them. I am hopeful, though, because we do know that on the 26th of next week, we do know that Representative Burchett and Congress individuals will be speaking with the Department of, Defense Inspector General. Now, when they, when they have this, it only took a couple years to get this meeting to go to place. But the idea is that the DODIG, they're going to work with Congress

and kind of let them know about some of the stuff going on. Now, I don't know how that meeting's going to go, but I'm hopeful that that meeting is happening actually this week when people are listening to it. It would be this week. A couple of other things that Carpatrick has said or the report said that jumped out at me. And this was the one that both you and I reacted to off camera, offline, is that they have found no evidence of adverse health effects documented to date, which is maybe they have it. Maybe the cases they're getting mostly come from pilots,

and they're not getting close up to these UFOs, whatever these objects are. But we know for a fact that the U.S. government has solid information about negative health effects from being in the proximity of UAP UFOs. There's a Shankar Patrick to walk across the street to DIA and get the dirt that was part of the OSAP program. Sorry for all the acronyms. But there was a report compiled that the guy who was in charge of it is Kit Green who worked for CIA for a number of years.

He's a neuroscientist, a medical doctor, and he cataloged all these hundreds, hundreds of cases. where there have been deleterious health effects caused by being in the proximity to UFOs, burns and body marks and serious, really weird diseases that pop up when people get too close to these things. It's hundreds of cases. It's a dirt that is now public information. We posted on a mystery wire a couple of years ago. You and I have talked about it before.

So the fact that Sean Kirkpatrick seems blissfully unaware that this report exists is telling, I think. Right. So I think they hide behind language because when you read it, it's like within the reporting period, you know, how do you even have time to really look at the brain scans of individuals who had an experience within that reporting time? So they kind of hide behind language. He is very well aware that there are negative impacts to human biology, including the brain when it comes to close proximity to UAP. I don't know if he's read the great work of AWASAP and the these reports, the ones that you released to the public showing that human beings have these really devastating biological effects. But remember when you asked Dr. Colm Keller her to come on weaponize a number of episodes ago, he really brought this up. He talked about this. Now, remember, this is a, for our audience, this is a, the government's acknowledged biggest

ever acknowledged UFO program run, but through the DIA, but it was the one that was funded for $22 million called AOS. Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program, and one of the dirds, the Defense Intelligence Reference documents that you release to the public, shows a really intense knowledge, a very studied knowledge of what UAP or UFOs can do to the human body when people come into close proximity,

not that they're actively targeting human beings in general, but just that that close proximity to that power source, although there are other cases like in Coleris, which in this new episode we talked about. So yeah, man, it's super frustrating. An aspect of the UFO phenomenon is human health effects. And Dr. Kirkpatrick damn well knows that. I think, yeah, we had some great comments from column Kelleher, a biochemist who was directly involved with OSAP.

He was one of the program managers. He oversaw a lot of the research into the health effects. He was directly involved with it. He told us about that months ago. Somehow that information has never got to the Arrow folks. I'm not sure. I know that Kirkpatrick said they have almost 40 people on staff for Arrow now, which is a great thing. They need to ramp it up and maybe they'll be adding more.

I wonder how many of them are medical doctors or have some kind of medical experience where they could actually have the expertise to investigate the possible health effects. As we have said on this program before, they've been well documented for a long time. One of them, I mean, there's John Burroughs, that guy who got too close to the Bentwater's UFO. His injuries were severe enough that Senator John McCain authorized, got him authorized to have federal health benefits because his injuries were directly related to his service during the military. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank.

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Now, Hank has a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Co-Pilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365, copilot.com, slash work. That's right. So I remember that because when I was with Ruben Langdon and he was putting on the citizen hearing on disclosure, which everybody should watch, it's, you know, 40 witnesses and a week of testimony in front of five Congress people and one senator, John Burroughs was part of the Rendlesham Forest UFO encounters. And he had a heart problem. They wouldn't admit that he was even there

because it was a UFO incident was all classified. So when he testified at that panel that we all set up there, they couldn't believe it. They wouldn't give him health benefits because of an injury he received because of close proximity to UFOs. So you're right. John McCain jumped in. That was a letter that everybody signed that was there.

We documented that signing. And it worked. They gave him full medical benefits. He had a life-saving surgery on his heart. Very weird thing happened, though. When he was in surgery, the doctor got a call from a military individual telling them exactly what to do to repair this issue that was caused by UAP. And that showed knowledge of our military and exactly what UAP does to the heart in that situation. He then came forward, and I have this also documented where he's thanking everybody for putting this pressure on during the citizen hearing because it did save his life.

it gave him full benefits. It's a really neat piece of footage, but it's part of history. It's true. So look, yeah, the investigations into leaks is an essential part of the way intelligence agencies work.

I get that. I take no offense on that. You and I as journalists, no one's coming at us. We're obtaining information. We're releasing it for public good as long as we vetted it. And we do our best.

So I do understand why these investigations are going. Maybe you have a different opinion, but I understand it. No, yeah. I agree. Yeah, totally agree. Sure. Because, I mean, there might be foreign agents involved in this stuff. They're very interested in our UFO programs and what we know about this issue, for sure. Yeah. And you and I have been notified by numerous agencies at different times when there's a new hack to signal or that kind of thing so we can sure up our security. Because, you know, agencies know that we have people leak into us all the time information. And they're more concerned that a foreign nation will get it than impeding. upon the work of journalists. So I kind of admire that if it actually stays that way. But that's what you and I have experienced. So I don't know. Hopefully, you and I find, you and I find the time during this season, which I know we will have weaponized, to put out information that we vetted and we think is

worthy of public discourse. Is that what you call a tease, Jeremy? I'm just saying, man, I'm just saying it's hard. You know, we got to make sure it's like worthy, like what do they say? Like the juice is worth the squeeze. That's what you and I have been kind of wrestling with for some of it. So Sean Kirkpatrick has now said they have around 40 people working for Arrow. That's great. You know, we haven't known how many people they had working. They wouldn't even tell Congress what kind of budget they had or anything or how many staff members they had. 40 people working for Arrow, that's great. We'd like to hear from some of them, maybe. I mean, I wonder how those folks go to work every day trying to figure out these UFO cases, UAP incidents. And then they have Kirkpatrick saying, you know,

know, we've explained pretty much all of them. I wonder if those folks go along with that, if they're frustrated. But whatever, we're not bashing their work. We're just saying, asking questions about their boss and what he is sharing with the public. Right. And I think you and I are asking that because we have a little bit of insight into the inner mechanics of how stuff is being portrayed publicly compared to, you know, whatever information they may be getting.

So, look, bottom line. Let's bottom line it because we're about to talk about what happened last week, which is really interesting with Dr. Lekatsky and Dr. Colm Kelloggher. I think people need to hear how we took that interview that we did last week. But before that, I think just looking at the idea that, okay, great, you're looking at military cases, trying to discern what shape is this? Is this a UFO? What's going on here?

Hold on. Hold on. If we have craft and we are exploiting those craft and they are UFO, this is a charade, an absolute total charade. Arrow is a charade. And if that's the case, it's really frustrating. And unfortunately, I believe that to be the case. And there's a reason why.

So last week, you asked your pal, Dr. James Lakatsky, who is a career, DIA intelligence individual who ran the UFO program for the United States government with Dr. Colum Keller, who is the project manager. when they got the contract for this DIA program. And we had them on. Only you could get guys like this on. Dr. Lekatsky doesn't do a bunch of interviews. He's a buy-the-book kind of guy.

So there he is, and we're reading through his book, and you show me a certain paragraph. And in there, he straight admits it. He admits that our government has a UFO in their possession. He admits that they're trying to open it up, that they have an exploitation program with the idea of reverse engineering. And then he admits they were able to breach the hole. And it's, you just fly by it in the book. But it's so frustrating. I wanted to really, look, they're friends of ours in a way.

Like, we're not against them. We understand they have to hold secrecy. That's why they have these positions of power within the DIA because they're trustworthy. But they done, did set it. They wrote it in the book. So you and I pushed. We pushed really damn hard. It was frustrating for us. And sure enough, we get them to say, yes, those events happened, what I said is true, and that's as far as I can go. I understand why many of our listeners express frustration with the interview, because there's only so far that Dr. Lackatsky and Collin-Kelleher were willing to go, and beyond that, they're just not going to talk about it. That approach has served Dr. Lackatsky well. I mean,

he was a career intelligence analyst. He worked for DIA for a couple decades in the Defense warning office. He's walked the walk and talk to talk, and he does not really support full disclosure of everything right away. He's done it a bit at a time what he can get away with. So, you know, we had Skinwalkers at the Pentagon where we revealed a lot about OSAP. If not for Dr. Lackatsky coming forward to me and Harry Reid in 2018, we wouldn't know anything about it. We would have still had the New York Times story about A-TIP as being the only record about that period of history, of UFO history, but we met with him in Washington on St. Patrick's Day in 2018, and he laid it out about the OSAP program that had received $22 million, what they did

with the money, showed me a variety of documentation that backed up what he had to say. And if he had not come forward at that point, and in subsequent releases and interviews, we wouldn't know anything about this stuff. So I understand people's frustration, but we've already learned a heck of a lot from Dr. Likatsky about what the government knew, and he has done it incrementally as he could get away with it with permission from the Dopser process for the books, the two books. The Dopser approved this new book back in April. It approved basically the manuscript back in April. We've tinkered with it, and I'm a co-author. We tinkered with some of the content since then. But Lackatsky, wanted to include the fact that, yeah, it's true. We do have a craft. This is, I think,

before Grush's big revelations before Congress. And, you know, he was acknowledging that we've got one, that we gained access to the middle. He could not say where it is. He could not say, who has it. He couldn't say who exactly got into the, into the craft itself. But he shared with us what he could. That's what he could do without going to prison. Right. I mean, so look, it's like stepping back a second. Dr. Lekatsky admittedly, so the negative that I've heard about him is that like he's glib and he likes holding these secrets that I don't see it that way at all. You know, he's a patriot.

He's worked in the DIA. You know, he ran this UFO program. That's heroic of him to get that through the dopser process where they look at what can you say publicly and print it in a book. You know, he's just a buy the book kind of guy, which you've said is the kind of guy you want in our intelligence. agencies, but it sounds like you've had a lot of interaction. I know you've been to fly on a wall in a lot of places.

You have a little extra information that I think is public. So you can kind of push a little bit, and I can push a little bit to try to get more out. But I think don't let that be lost on you. So if you watch that whole last episode of Weaponized again, it's not that you see somebody trying to hide anything. The guy is on our podcast, for God's sake. I mean, he's coming out trying to tell you. you something, but he just has confines of which he can do that. One news station did pick it up.

You know, News Nation is really like on this UFO thing now. Yeah. And they really picked it up. When they saw that episode, they're like, wait a second, wait a second. You're saying the head of the DIA UFO program straight up admitted that we have a UFO. The government does. We've been exploiting it. We got inside the hall. I'm like, yep, they're like, come on the news. So I did that yesterday. It was also to promote, by the way, I just want to say, there's a two-part special on George Knapp. They released part one last week, and by the time you hear this, part two will have been released and look it up. It's so cool, George. I just got to take a second.

It shows your reporting from the mob to politics to UFOs. It shows how you got on this weird and wild path into UFO investigating with the Bob Lazar interview as kind of like the thing that happened right after you interviewed John Lear. and he laid out this hypothesis of what's going on with the government covering up UFOs. It was just such a cool thing. I know you hate that kind of stuff. But as a fan of this topic, it's cool to see how we got to where we are. You were saying things 37 years ago that now we know are true. And I know you didn't believe it back then.

You were investigating it. But man, that's got to be kind of weird, George, to see your whole life out on display when it comes to your investigations on another news network. Yeah, it's weird. It's odd. And I have not seen that part one yet. I saw the first 10 minutes of it because Sunday night I have a radio show. So I'm prepping for that. I've got it recorded and I'll probably watch it later today or something. But I have not seen part two. But yeah, it is weird to see all that unfold. And thank God they haven't got my whole life to show on television. Because there's there's chunks of it that would not be pretty. But yeah, it's interesting that the, I, ideas and concepts that we pursued 36, 37 years ago, and that people had a hard time swallowing back then are now almost mainstream. I mean, we've come a long way, but it's the same stuff that Lazar and others said back then is coming to fruition now. And hopefully it keeps marching forward. Yeah, that news, the guy Brian who did the news report that I was on yesterday,

he was like, look, for most people, this is kind of new information. I was like frustrated. I was like, this is like the movie, don't look up. It's been so obvious. This has been said, you know, for so long. And he's like, but for most people, we're not as educated on this. And I was kind of set back. I'm like, okay, no, I get it.

You're right. You're right. Let's start, you know, at level one here. Yeah, I think it's a lot to process, though, Jeremy. I mean, you interview people every day. This is sort of your specialty. For guys like me, mostly on the outside. you know, it's a lot to take in.

But what's interesting since I've been interviewing and studying George Knapp, your sort of partner in crime who's been doing this for almost 40 years, you know, a lot of the stuff that you're breaking now and the things that people are saying now, he was reporting, you know, decades ago, like with Bob Lazar,

another person who worked out at Area 51, saw things, and then first spoke with George decades ago. I want to play you a clip from the special on Sunday with Bob Lazar. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save?

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You're talking about contact, physical, physical contact and proof from another system, another planet, another intelligence. That's got to be the biggest event in history, period. And it's real. And it's real and it's there. But I want to bring us into, so this idea that Dr. Lekatsky came on our show, and he verbally and on camera made this at much, It was a huge deal. Is you're officially allowed to tell us that the United States government has in its possession a craft of unknown origin and you were able to access the inside? Is that correct? The wording that you read is correct.

Ah, you're going beyond the wording. No, I'm not. I'm asking you, did that mean happen? And is it true? And it's true. Yes. Okay. You're telling us.

You told us because you were allowed to tell us that our government has a UFO in its possession and has been able to access the inside of it, right? Yes. It made me kind of go back and look at the archives. And one of the things that I found was this guy, this researcher, this UFO researcher named Bob Exler. And he had this, I kind of famously, in my mind, he had this interview with Admiral Bobby Ray Inman. And Admiral Inman was, I mean, this guy was, his career was incredible. So let me break this down real quick. I want to play some clips and get your thoughts, George.

So Bob Exler was a national mission specialist. So a serious guy from what I understand from looking through his history, he interviewed Admiral Inman. And that was once Inman was out of the military. But Admiral Inman, just check this out. This guy in military and intelligence. He was the director of the DNI, the Naval Intelligence, until 1976, which is the role, the same role that Scott Bray now holds, from what I understand.

So Scott Bray was one of the guys that was kind of like nothing to see here, move along in that first UFO hearing. So that's, Inman held that role back in 1976. Then he was the vice director of the DIA until 1977. then he was the director of the NSA until 1981, then the deputy director of the CIA until 1982. So, 1981 and 82, he was both the director of the NSA and the CIA simultaneously, which is crazy because he'd write one thing that he wanted authorized

and he'd approve it himself from what I hear. So it was a lot of power this guy had. So this is a guy in position to know. With that said, oh, by the way, and then private, industry. So like after his military career, he became, he went on the board of SAIC science applications international corporation. What is SAIC, George? Well, that's one of those big Pentagon contractors. Those of us who believe there is UFO information and craft and materials stashed suspect that SAIC would be one of the likely candidates to get that stuff. It's right in the heart of the

larger conspiracy lore. You can't prove it for sure. but, you know, there are a lot of arrows pointing toward SAIC as being directly involved with us. So when he leaves all those multi-letter agencies and then goes to SAIC, another acronym, you know, a lot of eyebrows were raised and suspicions. And Bob Exler, as you mentioned, he was a UFO guy. He got into the UFO field in the late 80s right around the time that I joined the cause, the investigation, and stayed into it into mid-90s. He played a role in the Bob Lazard investigation that we can talk about later, but he knew enough of the lingo to talk his way into a phone call with Bobby Ray Inman.

And wow, the stuff that came out. And what Inman thought was an off-the-record conversation is pretty amazing. Yeah. So we're talking about an admission from a DIA official when it comes to Dr. Lackatsky, but he was authorized to admit, you know, the three things he did, that our government has at least one, UFO, that we've been exploiting it, to get inside of it. And then we did that we got inside the hall. So that's one thing that we learned. But going back to this Axler interview that I found, I want to see what you think about it. So the first clip is just him kind of giving us a basic understanding of where he's coming from. You know, he talks about the paper trail. And I think that's, that is how you got involved with this too, is that our government is hiding something from us. And that pissed you off. So let me play this first clip with Bob Axler. What is it? 24 seconds. I just want to

want you to hear what he said, and this is probably 1997, just for context. Let's hear what he has to say. I started out extremely skeptical about this whole thing. I thought this was just rubbish from the tabloids, but I was surprised to find thousands of U.S. government documents from intelligence agencies that tended to indicate that there was a little bit more to this than met the eye. So I went to seek guidance from the various highest levels of the United States intelligence community, and I was quite alarmed at what I was able to learn. Does that sound familiar to you that you got hooked on? I think we met Exler in 1989 at the Mufon conference and then stayed in touch with him over the next couple of years until up to that point.

And yeah, his voice rings a bell with me, sure. Yeah, but I mean, also just like getting hooked on it because you realize there's all these documents that are leading towards we're studying UFOs. We take it very seriously. He got hooked and he had access. That's kind of what happened to you. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly the path I followed. All right.

So let's now listen. There's just a 58 second thing, a new thing, you know, from that same interview. I want to lead us into this interview that he had with Admiral Inman, who made an absolute astonishing admission. So let's hear him set it up. Again, this is Bob Exler, who was investigating this, you know, a NASA specialist who really got bit by the UFO bug and was like, I want to find out what's going on. Here's his next little clip.

Well, I had contacted Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, who was the head of the National Security Agency in the United States, Deputy Director at CIA, Director of Naval Intelligence, and a variety of intelligence posts, a technologist, and clearly someone that if this was really accurate, that there really were UFOs and non-human intelligence around, this is a man who had to know. So I was able to contact him, thanks to contact through Admiral Lord Hill Norton here in the UK. And this conversation, he alarmingly not only indicated that these issues were covered under national secrecy laws, but that the United States government did in fact have possession of the hardware associated with this. In other words, this was an actual physical phenomenon. A craft, a spaceship. Several of them, and they were in operational condition, which I assume suggested that they had been in contact, that they had been given these craft for some reason or another,

because they certainly weren't crashed vehicles. Wow. So here's a guy. He's a UFO investigator. He's got high credibility. He's got some insight in the intelligence community because of his role in NASA. And he's like, I'm going to call this guy, Admiral, Inman, and I'm going to get through to him.

Now, I don't think he legally recorded this recording you're about to hear, but it was an admission. He said, we have craft. They're not just crashed. Almost as like they're given to us, which would mean we have some sort of communication. Where have we heard this before? Bob Lazar, maybe. Yeah. Bob Lazar.

And now where we are now, there's multiple craft, not just one like Lakatsky, Dr. Lakotsky was able to admit, but like multiple craft. So let's play this audio. And again, understand the gravity, who he's talking with,

this former head of the CIA, DNI, I mean NSA, this guy was involved in every intelligence agency. He was really respected and really a trusted guy. I don't think he knew he was being recorded. He was talking with a colleague is what he thought. But wow, let me play this for you, 25 seconds.

Just hear what he said. Do you anticipate that any of the answer would have been no? Yeah. Whether time has evolved. So 10 years ago, he says, the answer would have been no. None of this is coming out. It's not going to get out to this broader scientific community. So that would have made it about 1987.

No way. But he's saying maybe now, maybe now this stuff is going to be able to leak out. Again, this is in 97. Here we are in 2024. We're just starting to see maybe some of this kind of coming out. Maybe, maybe this big mystery is going to crack open a little bit. Yeah, 26 years later, we're finally seeing little glimpses of it. I don't think that the leaks, what we're getting right now is part of some master plan, though. I think that the hand of those folks keeping the secrets has been forced on this. And we know right now that the pushback is underway in Washington at the Pentagon and other places. They're trying to plug the leaks right now. Right. And so another thing that happened this week that's really interesting, or last week,

is that they got a skiff for David Grush to be able to go into or the documents that he has, the reports that he has go into and inform people like Representative Burchett and other. who have the authority. So finally they got that skiff. Do you remember that? It was so weird. You and I have been in skiffs. That's no problem for us.

Why wouldn't they let a decorated intelligence officer tell Congress for oversight what they need to know? Well, luckily, we're there. And we saw a post by Representative Luna that they got the skiff. And I confirmed that with Representative Birchit. So they're going to be able to hear what David Grush couldn't see. say in the congressional hearing? Are you optimistic about that? I'll believe it when I see it. I mean, they've already run into substantial opposition from within their own party in the House. And, you know, I suspect that there's the hand of some Pentagon folks and defense

contractors who's been pressuring senior members of the House, the Republican leadership, to stop this, which is why there's been a problem in getting a Skip approved, which is ridiculous. They should have had that as soon as they wanted it, asked for it. I'm hopeful that they get to hear it. I'm hopeful the public gets to learn some of what they are shared with, but it might be a test case, you know, where they're going to give them little breadcrumbs and see who leaks what to see how much further information they'll get down the line.

And for our audience that's listening or watching, if you don't know what a skiff is, it's just a secure facility where you can transmit classified information. If everybody in that skiff, you know, has the proper clearance. So it's one thing to get a skiff, but it's another thing to make sure that everybody has proper clearance. But from what I understand, David Grush is going to be able to tell them not only the program names for these exploitation or reverse engineering programs for UFOs, but he's also going to be able to tell them a list of hostile and non-hostile witnesses, people that want to talk and tell you that they've been working on these craft first, direct, firsthand individuals working on. non-human intelligence craft, but also from program names to, you know, these direct testimony of people working on the crafts, that kind of thing,

but also the locations, the locations, the holding locations of these non-human intelligence craft. Look, man, that will be huge. If you got somebody like Representative Birchett in there and he hears this information, like he'll keep it confident, but he will push even harder to get that information out. And with that meeting coming up with the DOD Inspector General, man, it feels to me like it's colliding. Like everything's colliding. Like I am optimistic because we have rogue individuals trying to do it right, like David Grush. I feel like we're going to make progress. I really hope so.

I'm optimistic. I am too. I mean, you know, we've talked about it before on this program and elsewhere that national security implications are inherent in this topic. You can't get around it. Because the technology, if you could figure out how to reverse engineer it, how it works, it'd be an incredible boon to our defense establishment to the Pentagon, DOD, intelligence agencies, everybody. I mean, the weapons potential alone would be tremendous. We're worried that our adversaries are doing the same thing, that Russia and China and maybe some other countries are investigating this and trying to get a leap forward in technology as an advantage over us. So national security is baked into this, which is one reason.

in that James Likatsky has been reluctant to spill all the beans that he might know. He worries that appearing before Congress, even behind closed doors, would lead to leaks. And it would be the equivalent of telling Congress would almost be like telling red China in some words that I have heard. So, you know, I know people are mad at him because he didn't tell everything he knew at once. But, of course, you know, in UFO world, people are always mad about something. But he told us what he could, what he was authorized to say, and didn't want to go beyond it. But he's hoping to push the topic forward in coming months and years.

So I know people are mad at James Lasky right now, but I think he went as far as he can. And as he has told us, there are national security implications baked into this topic. And that will apply to Tim Burchett and Luna and other members of Congress who want to push the ball forward. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up. People are kind of like pissed. They watch the last weaponized. They think he's being evasive. And Dr. Colm Keller, her too.

But I'm going to remind everybody. So Dr. Lekatsky made it clear. He says, national security is the number one most important thing. This is the kind of guy we trust in the DIA. He's doing his best. He says, I'm not for disclosure when it hurts national security. But, you know, obviously he is to some degree because he's trying. He's making an effort to get.

get this information out. I will remind people that when we interviewed Dr. Kelleher on our show, that was the first time we had somebody running as the program manager for the acknowledged UFO program called Ossap. He admitted that we had UFOs in government possession. He just came right up to that line. And when I asked him, he said, yes. And that was a bombshell back then. There were no details before this new book. There were no details. He just says, yes, we have them. And I'm like, oh, cool. So that was something that we were able to break back then, but now there's more meat on the bone with Dr. Lasky giving a little bit more information that we were exploiting it, trying to get inside the hole. And we did. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing

chaos at work, use Indeed sponsor jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. So look, there's another thing I want to play for you. There's this little clip. There's this guy named Tom King, who was in Admiral Inman's office.

So after Exler made this, you know, announcement on television or maybe just before that, he's like, can I go public with this? And they were like, nope, it would be a big problem. And it was just a cool little audio. They left it on his voicemail. And I thought we should play it because this is the kind of call you and I have got. This is the kind of call we're like, no, don't do that. So I just want to play this real quick. It's 17 seconds. But listen to this guy, Tom King from Admiral Inman's office, kind of tell Exler, don't go public with this. check this out. Mr. Ackler, this is Trump King in Admiral Inman's office. Yes, you would be breaching confidence and or violation discussing his involvement in any matter. Right. So you would be breaching not only confidence, but it would be a violation of laws in discussing, you know, Admiral Inman's involvement in any manner. I mean, man, that kind of call is really, it's, it sucks to get. Yeah, I love that mood music that was playing in the background there. I don't know whether he said a hookah lounge or what was that.

That was just, I grabbed something online where I got the audio and it had like dramatic music from a TV show. Well, I would just say that there are, you know, the pushback is real. There are people that do not want this to come forward. That was 1997 when those exchanges happened. We're still waiting for that crowd to come forward with what they know. I would remind people that Lekatsky and Kelleher and Bigelow when they were involved with Ossap, they were trying to track this stuff down. In Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, we had a section where we described one reason for the demise

of Ossap is they went knocking on the doors of people who were the keepers of the secrets trying to access what they thought was a reverse engineering program and the doors were slammed in their face and then the knives were out for Ossap and that was the beginning of the end for the program. I noticed, so there's two more clips I want to play where Bob Exler kind of goes big picture, like why the secrecy, because everybody wants to know this, why the secrecy, why no great photographs, like, why the secrecy? But before I do that, I remember in our last episode of Weaponized, I mean, you were getting

pretty annoyed too, you're getting pretty heated, and you asked them because you felt like, gosh, let's just say it. But one of the things you really focused in on is, look, you're getting pretty annoyed too. you guys went so dr colin calaharan dr lecatsky we're trying to figure out where the good as you say the goodies are held where the UFOs where the saucers are held and you're really pushing them on that can you can you explain that a little bit well you know you could sense that we i've had these conversations before with those guys you know in in private and it has gone a little bit further well much further than and then what we're allowed to say in public so i was trying to encourage

Dr. Lackackackacki to use the platform available to go ahead and say more about it. And I wasn't getting anywhere with either one of them. There are my friends. They're my co-authors. I know them really well, and you do too. So, you know, we wanted to get what we could while the moment was available to us, you know. So we tried. And we're still in good terms with those guys. But, you know, that's our job, was to try to push it a little bit further. Yeah. And they respect it. And I'm sure in some way, like they want to be pushed further. And I think we definitely got Lakotsky just that one millimeter further when he says, yes, it's true.

Yes, it happened or whatever. I was like, whoa. So, but yeah, it's got to be frustrating to you all these years. You know, again, looking back, if you watch those, you know, the new special of actually, you see that you've been on this case from the beginning. I mean, everything John Lear was saying to you was sounded so crazy back in the day in 1987 or whenever you first interviewed him. But like, along the way.

way we've learned so much of this is real. So I want to think big picture now. I want to think about this same interview with Exler. He kind of said some really profound things. Let me play you a clip. It's about it's a minute and a half and it's just kind of how he threw down. And I believe it's 1997 when this was done this interview. But just hear what he had to say, a minute and a half. And I want to get your response. Check this out. These governments, the Canadian government, the American government if they are in possession of spacecraft, if they have made contact with aliens, why don't they tell us? What I was able to learn is that the issue of secrecy dates back into the early 1950s, and in 1959,

actually NASA had a study conducted by the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., addressing the issue of whether this alarming issue of a confrontation with an extraterrestrial culture should be released to the public. this information, it was determined that there would be grave consequences for just an overt public pronouncement by government officials. What does that mean? We would all panic. Well, not necessarily just panic, but the issues that it presented, not only theology, but issues involving economics, standards of monetary concerns, if you acknowledge

type of technology that renders fossil-fuel-related industries obsolete, for example, you have grave consequences economically all the way around the world. Of course, all our values are rendered. So the determination was made that the only way to avoid this chaos would be through a slow indoctrination process over a matter of decades. The decisions to maintain secrecy regarding this centered more around not upsetting the economic apple cart, religion, theology issues that come into play, and quite a number of issues that essentially center around science and technology.

How does that hold up now all these years later what he was saying? Well, I think some of those concerns are still a reason to keep this stuff secret. There would be disruption of the world's economy, the fossil fuel industry. At a time when our planet is baking and climate change is real and we're seeing the consequences all over, maybe it is time to reevaluate our reliance on fossil fuels. Do we just keep going with that and cook the planet, even though it's as dire consequences, consequences for the future of humanity, you know, there would be repercussions if we release this stuff. But as Exler says, and as many people have said, and as the Brookings report said,

you'd have to do this over time. Well, it's been a long time. That Brookings report came out in 1960. We're a long way down the road. We're 63 years or 63 years since then. I think the public is ready for it. I think we have been conditioned to accept it. And I don't think there would be tremendous turmoil in religious circles or social institutions would necessarily collapse, depending on what the ultimate truth really is. We don't know what it is yet. Yeah, and just to kind of affirm and confirm to people, like, look, you and I were interested in this. You've been doing this for so long. We're not part of some government conspiracy. I mean, look, that would be super fun if we were leaked stuff so we could put it out, just, you know,

McLevelian messing with the consciousness of humanity across the globe about UFOs. wish my life was that exciting. We're hungry for the information too. This is not an organized attempt. In fact, we've had to fight for every millimeter when it comes to confirmation of this information. But just hearing Exler talk about that, look, this has been something that we have been kind of fighting for for a long time. It's been so obvious. Again, like that movie, don't look up. It's so obvious if you really get in there and start looking. And now that we know a lot of the people involved, they're not coming forward willingly. This is not, we're having to pull teeth.

Now, the next thing is, is the legislation. This has not been finally decided yet, but we are in a good place. If this legislation goes through us powerfully, the UFO legislation right now in the National Defense Authorization Act and the Intelligence Authorization Act, man, it's going to put pressure on private industry where this technology that you and I know has been sequestered to to say, what do you got? You can keep it. You know, us as the government can't directly work on it.

We want you to keep it, but you got to admit it. We have to have oversight. So I'm hopeful fingers crossed. It will be a huge day if that legislation, Schumer's legislation, if that gets passed and President Biden signs it, it's going to have major impact. The closest thing we'll ever get to confirmation is right now. Yeah, I mean, I'm almost hopeful, which is incredible because I'm usually pessimistic.

I'm also almost hopeful that that legislation will pass. But as we have discussed here many times, you know, it's always unpredictable. UFOs have been on the front burner in the past. There's peaks and valleys of public interest and congressional interest, and something always comes along that trumps UFOs. Right now, Congress is a mess. You know, the House of Representatives can't pick its next leader. They're shut down, in essence.

There's no going forward on budgets. There's still the looming possibility that there will shut down the U.S. government. There's impeachment proceedings against President Biden. There's war in the Ukraine. There's terror in the Middle East. There's always something more important and more pressing than UFOs. So I'd like to say that I am hopeful. I am a little bit, but I'll believe it when I see it.

So let me play this last part. It's a minute and 11 seconds. And this is, again, Bob Exler. And he's kind of summarizing kind of what. going on, this idea that we might not be the top of the food chain. I just want to give it as food for thought as we end this episode of Weaponized, so check this out. We do have to come to grips with the reality that perhaps human beings aren't the only intelligence in the universe and that they have in fact been here to visit in spite of projects

like the NASA SETI project, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence in deep space. There are serious issues associated with this. And we have a mentality where we like to kind of poke fun at the issue through tabloids and so forth. If there's one that comes, there's obviously going to be more. And just like we have different species of humans on this planet, I'm quite certain there's different species of alien life forms. So we could run into metal evidence. In fact, President Reagan on several occasions alerted concern

about the potential hostilities from outer space and why it would be important for us to work together on this planet with superpowers and so on uniting. Clearly, the problem that we're confronted with here is that although technologically, these beings may be more intelligent than us, we appear to be more advanced in areas of civility. We have emotions and things like that, and we have concern for our fellow man, whereas that doesn't seem to be the case necessarily in some of these other cultures. What do you think of that? Well, it raises the kind of big questions that we tackle all the time. I mean, the fact is we don't know the ultimate truth. I don't know. We don't know anybody who knows all of it.

David Grush, Jim Lackatsky, Colin Kelleher, Robert Bigelow, Bob Lazar, all those guys know more than we do, maybe. But we're not quite sure what the ultimate truth is. So it's hard to predict what the effect on society will be, what the effect on the planet will be. And we don't know what it is that's going to be disclosed. You know, we have a long way to go on this. And there are legitimate concerns, both for national security and how the public handles, whatever the disclosure might be. Best we can do is keep plugging away at it. Yeah, it reminds me, I saw this thing recently where President Gorbachev, where he came out way later.

And there was this meeting that he had with Reagan where they were walking alone and they dismissed all of their individuals surrounding them. And I think Reagan was in Russia at the time. And they were taking a walk. And Gorbachev admitted that what Reagan was. Reagan said to him, and this is like he admitted it, like this video of this, he says, you know, look, if we were, if the United States was attacked by an extraterrestrial species, would you guys defend us?

Would you guys have our back? And Gorbachev said, absolutely. And so did Reagan. So at that time when you see him at the UN making those big statements about if we were attacked by somebody else, you know, that came from something, that came from the idea that we don't know what this is. And I do believe now it appears that. we have technology of unknown origin from what appears to be non-human intelligence.

Was that given to us or is that something that we got from a crash retrieval? These are big questions. We just don't know. But David Grush says that he has the holding locations. I know he actually does. So the holding locations of these craft, full-on UFOs. We are this close if we keep pushing within the next year or so to get more information on this. So I will kind of remain optimistic until,

proven otherwise, it's an exciting time to study the UFO topic. It's got to be exciting for you to see all this coming out. Well, very much, though, yeah, after all these years, you know, there was the late Stan Friedman used to say one reason for the cover-up could be that when the people of Earth start thinking of themselves as earthlings rather than as Americans or Russians, well, no government in the world wants that. They don't want us to think on a global scale. They like the idea of us being nationalistic and provincial. So that might be. be a reason why it's been so hard to get some of them to cough up what they know. We'll see. We'll see where it goes. All right, man. Well, thanks so much. And I know that with the remaining

episodes are Weaponized for this season, I hope that we can put some really great stuff into those episodes. Everybody stay tuned. And thanks so much, George. Talk to you later. Never has so few. Had so much to tell, but could say so little. Following this and webinarized, presentation of Jeremy Corbelle, George Knapp, Dark Course Entertainment, and Cadence 13 Studios. Available now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows.