WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp - UFO Swarms - A Military Perspective - Guest : John Gutierrez

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

John “Guts” Gutierrez is an active duty Navy Commander having served for 17 years, initially as a helicopter pilot deployed all over the world, and credentialed as an Aviation Safety Officer. He��s a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis and has a personal passion for the UAP mystery. In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy & George talk with John about his life and personal perspective on the current, global UAP mystery. They also talk in-depth about the now famous UFO swarm event series that occurred off the coast of California in 2019. This is a case now widely known due to Jeremy’s & George’s reporting on the events. This dramatic UFO event series included 10 Navy warships that were brazenly swarmed by over 100 Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs). For the first time ever - we get to hear what really happened - directly from two military eyewitnesses tasked with responding to the incursions within United States restricted airspace. Your curiosity will be WEAPONIZED! ••• WEAPONIZED would like to make clear that John is not speaking in any official capacity. He is not representing the U.S. Navy, the DoD or U.S. Government. All views and opinions expressed throughout the podcast by John [and by the anonymous service members] are strictly his/their own - and in no way represent the official position of the U.S. Navy, DoD or U.S. Government. ••• GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [e-mail] For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't. I'm Jeremy Quartz. Corbell, and for some reason people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is Weaponized. What's up, John? Hey, man. Good to see it.

Good to see you. We're back with Weaponized. I'm George Knapp, my colleague Jeremy Corbelle, and we got a special guest here today. This is my good friend, John, who you know, we've known each other a long time, John. We have. I'm really excited that we're able to talk. Yeah, man. You know, officially, like on camera, you know, on audio, for people to kind of learn about about you, our friendship, that kind of thing.

Sure. So can you tell me, John, a little bit about yourself? So I'm an active duty Navy commander. Been in for about 17 years. Originally as a helo pilot is my background. So I definitely have experience in the aviation community. But I've been deployed all over the world. Obviously got a chance to meet you along the way.

And I'm just happy to be here. And you give us a sense of how you got interested in the UFO topic and how that led to a friendship with Jeremy? Sure, absolutely. You know, it's lifelong interest, you know, starting as a kid. You know, I want to be an astronaut, you know, I guess like every other kid. But as I got older, that was kind of like a real goal, you know. And so it's eventually how I ended up at the Naval Academy. We can get into that a little bit later if we want. But, you know, lifelong interest kind of starting with the astronaut aspirations.

Turns out it's really hard to be an astronaut, by the way. You know, definitely they take the cream of the crop for that group. But, you know, kind of throughout my life, there were always these kind of figures growing up adults in my life that, you know, they took the topic seriously, really any topic, you know. My mom's from Central America, and we would go visit, you know, every summer growing up. There's a lot to be said for sitting around a table as a kid with a bunch of adults around you. having serious discussions about maybe some, you know, call it paranormal topics. And as a kid that made a big impression on me, you know, to hear, you know, my aunt bringing up a story of, you know, so-and-so saw something the other night and it looked really weird.

And instead of dismissing it, you know, outright or people snickering or laughing, it's like, oh, really, and, you know, just having serious discussions about it. Same thing, you know. I think my dad was one of the first ones that ever mentioned, you know, Area 51 and the possibility of what's out in the desert, you know. But again, not in a joking way, just kind of taking it seriously, you know. And then of course there were some, you know, I'm a child of the 90s, so I'm definitely, there was some big pop culture influences, you know, on me. X-Files was a big one. And even that, you know, we'd have a family friend come over with a former military guy,

you know, foreign Marine, and we'd watch an episode of X-Files, and at the end of it, he goes, you know, there's a little bit of Colonel of Truth in that episode, you know, And he'd go into a whole thing about the kernel of truth behind that particular episode. And then, of course, for me, you know, listening to Coast to Coast, you know, which I'm sure you're familiar with. But my, growing up, my dad owned and operate a family restaurant in my hometown. You know, if I wasn't playing football or getting in trouble with my friends, I was working. You know, I was working at the restaurant. And, you know, Friday, Saturday, Saturday nights, we'd be up late trying to shut things down.

and go home. And by the time we get out of the restaurant on a Friday, Saturday night, it's 11, 12 o'clock at night. And my dad would drive me home, you know, a 20, 30 minute drive to the house or whatever. And you know, you flip on the radio. The only thing to listen to that's worth listening to at that hour is, you know, show like ghosts. And so, you know, kind of those, those, again, people trying to have, you know, serious discussions about topics that maybe would be considered an orthodox or kind of on the fringes. And then eventually, I never suspected that what would eventually be my professional career would come crashing so closely with my personal passions and interests, you know, but they

definitely have, you know, in a big way. So kind of listening to George on coast to coast was really as a kid, the way, the way, was really as a kid, the way that you, like me, kind of got this on your radar through family and just, you know, in the zeitgeist, just listening to the radio. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and again, just listening to people, listening to serious people have serious discussions about it, you know. And it was a big, again, you know, when you're a kid, you kind of look to those around

you to see, what's their reaction like? Are they taking it seriously? Are they laughing? Are they not? You know, if luckily for me, the way I was raised and my parents were always very open-minded and kind of accepting of what people, you know, brought to us and obviously with a discerning eye always. But no, man, I look at, I'm somebody that's, even though it's been a personal passion and interest, I like to think that I'm somebody who's taking it seriously,

you know, and tried to sort the wheat from chaff, as they say. It's hard. You know, it's hard. It's hard to kind of sift through all the noise and all the scatter that's out there. But boy, I think when you can do that and do it successfully, I think it goes a long way. So as you, you know, you pursue your naval career, you rise through the ranks. Sure. And it's obviously not on your front burner thinking about UFOs, maybe in your back of your mind. At what point do you cross pass with Jeremy?

And how does that, how do you begin a conversation with him? Well, let me say first too that, you know, I'm not here on behalf of the Navy or I'm not here representing the Navy in any way. It happens to me like my career and my profession, which I'm very thankful for. and proud of my service and I wouldn't change a single thing. You know, the Navy's been good to me and my family and I'm married with three young kids and everything we have I owe to the Navy, you know. So, but in that sense, I'm not here, you know, with my Navy hat on.

It just happens to be my job. So please don't take anything that I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely. This is just my opinion. Yeah, no, just my opinion, you know. And I think it's important, it's important when, it's appropriate to you know to hear from from folks that may have either had experiences or just kind of give their help the public understand kind of the the the military perspective you know

because it's hard there's a lot of jargon there's a lot of nuance there's a lot of you know the military culture you know unfortunately a lot of what people know is just what they see in the movies and on TV you know and that's part of it but but the reality is a little bit different you know but no with with Jeremy we met what back in uh he's 2015 I think it was let's let's go back a little bit so it's a summer of 2015 and actually I think it was a little bit before it was the summer of 2014 let's say I'm listening to the coast and I had heard that an individual by the name of Bob Lazar was going to be coming out for the first time in a long time to a certain conference out in Arizona like I said it's the summer of 2014 I think the conference was like

February of 2015. Anyway. So that kind of piqued my interest, obviously, right? I listened to that show. And I'd always known kind of who Bob was and was familiar with his story. But I had a friend of mine who right now who would go unnamed. But another good buddy in mine, active duty guy, Submariner. But this is a guy that I've known for over 20 years now, someone that I trust my life with. And I knew that he was a big Bob Lazar fan, let's call him. And by fan, I mean, you know, again, someone who interested in the story, but even more so, you know, really tried to follow the story and try to, you know, try to follow the details to make heads or tales of, is this guy really saying, is it true what he's really saying, you know? So I knew that my buddy was a big,

was very interested in the Bob was our story. I knew that he was going to be on deployment at the time that Bob had decided to come out to agree to do the conference. So I said, well, what the hell? I've never, I've had a lifelong interest in this stuff. I've never been to a conference myself, you know, up until that point. And at the time I was stationed in San Diego, and I go, well, Arizona's not too far. So, you know, pack up the kids and the wife.

We're going to the desert to hear people talk about UFOs and to listen to Bob. So we get there and I think I came across you at you had a booth set up or whatever. And at the time, I think you'd had a little 10, 12 minute clip of Bob that people, again, no one had really heard from him in the way that you'd put him out up until that point. And I think I came out to you and said, hey, man, you know, you have these posters, you know. And I said, how much for a signed Bob Lazar poster, you know? Because I really wanted it for my buddy. Yeah, that's really what it was.

The whole impetus for that was just, I thought it would be really cool as a homecoming gift for him. You know, being out on deployment, you know, submarine duty is tough. So I kind of wanted something nice for him to come home to and be able to provide him like, hey, check out what I got for you, you know. And no, it wasn't even for me. You know, it wasn't even for me. So it was, I think that was kind of the start, you know. Yeah, yeah, it was funny, man, came up and I didn't know what to do because I was only printed these posters

because people were going to kill me if I didn't have something, you know, from the little short film interview thing. And I was like, I don't know, man. Let's find out, you know? And so finally, I think we met up later that night. We did. Like, this is my buddy. He's going to be so stoked, who now, you know, I know,

and friends with it as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was just kind of cool. That was the first way that we met. It's kind of funny, like, you know, you're reporting, and with Bob brings all these people together. We start up a friendship, and, you know, he came out to my place out in Pioneer Town, and it just kind of started from there.

Absolutely. I think at the time, I think we exchanged emails. Yeah. And I remember, it's funny, you were very gracious, you know. Okay, good. You were very gracious and you weren't putting on any airs or anything. And you know, really easy to talk to and get along with you. And he told me, yeah, you know, let's keep in touch.

Yeah. I got this guy's, you know, whatever, he's pulled my leg. I think it's important. We're going to delve into some really cool areas. Sure. Sensitive materials and incidents, but I think it's important to say, as people, yeah, of course, within limits. We'll push it as hard as we can.

What do we can get away with? It's important, I think, as people are watching or listening at home and are assuming well if he's friends with Jeremy maybe this is the guy that's leaking stuff images and things like no no no so let's you should make that clear but your nature of relationship sure yeah i mean you can go ahead and then i'll throw in no let me make it abundantly clear no i am not germy's source on anything that that he's that he's put out um you're so mean why not no no no no no look i look i i i take my job seriously um i'm able to keep my personal personal passions and my like I said my kind of professional obligation and duties keep those

two worlds separate you have to you know especially with with this job and in the world of security clearance and things like that you have to be able to do that as an aviator they train us to compartmentalize a lot of stuff to be able to go fly sure so maybe for someone like me or a fellow aviator I think it that's a little more inherent you know to be able to do that because they train you to do that so kind of keeping those worlds separate is paramount I would never as close as we are you I would never violate the sanctity of any. And you're cognizant of that too, Jeremy.

He's your friend. You don't want to put him in a position where he gets in trouble. I would never do that. And to kind of push that so people really understand, it's like, for me, with guts, is he's a rational-minded person that has experience as an aviator, long military career, active Navy commander. I mean, all of this is a perspective that, you know, is real important to some of the stuff that you and I are looking at.

So what I'll do over the years is I'd be like, hey man, I got this witness. They're coming at me with this story or something. You know, can I be verified? Did they go to the Annapolis Naval Academy with you? Just in general, like, is this a real person? What does this word mean? What should I be thinking about? Just basic stuff is how I come to, well, I call him guts, which is his call us to John, right?

The basic thing that I'll do is utilize his basic expertise to help me sort what I'm, I'm looking at. Now, it's gotten much deeper over the years. I mean, he's seen some of the stuff that we've obtained and released to the public. And I mean, I've never, ever, first of all, I'll just put it right out there. It's not a source. And you know that, but I mean, just publicly, something has to be vetted over and over and over. I have to receive something three or four times to feel that it is valid and then go in and look at it. Now, you've never asked me, and I've never talked to you about sources, which I think is important to kind of. Yeah, no, absolutely, you know, to the contrary of your point of, you know, feeding stuff to Jeremy.

No, absolutely not. I've never done anything like that. To the contrary, I've been, I don't know what the right word is, genuinely shocked, surprised, impressed, however you want to put it, of the sources that you do have and maintain. I have no idea who they are. Kind of like you would never put me in that position. I would never put you in that position either. I don't want to know. But, again, as someone who takes it seriously, as someone who has a passion for, Certainly the world of aviation safety, you know, it's kind of the angle that I'm coming at it from. I certainly have an interest of the stuff that you put out. First of all, the Pentagon has confirmed that what we released was actual Navy film footage. I mean, is it okay to ask you?

I mean, were you aware of this material after seeing George and I release it? Yeah, so there were a couple things that you guys had put out that I had been previously aware of. Yeah, absolutely. So when I saw it again in the form that you put it out, it's like, whoa, okay. You know, this is... You're glad it comes out. Yeah, it certainly, it certainly, well, it has a certain level of credibility or validity to the products that you guys put out. It's real. No one goes to Hank's for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately, though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice.

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rearded by mainstream media. Congress is looking at it. The public is energized. I mean, it's an amazing about face and transformation of events I never thought I would see. But I'm curious, you know, in private conversations, you've told us, the Navy is global. It's a big place. Sure. But it's also a small place.

So can you give us a sense of during these five years of tumultuous change and so much public attention on the UFO issue and questions. Is it discussed among your colleagues? Is it something that's kind of a you talk about on a regular basis? Right. Well, it isn't, it isn't. You know, it kind of just depends on who you talk to. You know, all my buddy is, sure, I'm the fox molder of, you know, of the squadron, you know,

so, you know, UFO stuff, you know, talk to guts, you know. But it isn't, it isn't. Certainly, you know, 2017 was a big year when someone like Commander Fraibor comes out and shares his story. That's a big deal. You know, it's a really big deal. You know, someone like Chad Underwood that you've talked to when they come out and provide their, so that's a big deal.

Brian Gray's, all the rest. For people that don't know about this stuff, right? So you're talking about Commander David Fraber and Commander Chad Underwood. Commander David Fraver was the guy that chased a UFO for the United States military, famously called the Tick-TAC UFO Incident, which is now famous because the New York Times and everything. The interviews George and I did on with Dave Fraver. And also with Commander Underwood, he's the guy that filmed the Tick-Tac-T-T-T-T-T-Evint. UFO. So we have witness report from a pilot who's head of the black aces. Then you got somebody

who he sends out to film this UFO. And he films it. And it's put out to the world. So people that don't know, that's what we're talking about. You saw that and you were like, when I actually, when I first told you, I was talking with the Navy commander who chased the UFO. What was your reaction? Bullshit. It's total bullshit. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't believe you, man. And again, that kind of goes back to the whole, you know, sorting wheat from you got to have a good BS meter. I don't have to tell you that. You really got to have a good BS meter with all this stuff. When you first mentioned that you had somebody of the status of Commander Fravor, I didn't believe it. You know, that's too good to be true. It's a perfect witness, you know,

when you think about it. Why? Well, and like I've told you before, you know, privately, I wish people, I wish a general public more inherently understood the quality of the caliber of witness, the quality of witness that a guy like Commander Fravor is. Why? And number one, He's an aviator, so I got a bias towards that. But, no, listen, he's a jet jock. He is as close to the real-life Maverick, Tom Cruise, that you're going to get in real life, okay? He's the CEO of his own squadron, which, again, in our world, there's no one above that. Black Aces?

Black Aces, you know, a jet squadron that deploys around the world. He's the CEO of that squadron. He's a Naval Academy graduate. He's a Top Gun graduate. it, I believe was an instructor. I'm at that, don't quote me on that. But again, this is somebody that when they speak, people should listen, you know, and take what they're saying seriously. And so, do people talk about it? Yeah. But it's not, it's not prolific, you know, there were, hell, even today, you'll come across folks, in active duty folks, you ever heard of

Commander Fraver? I go, no, who's that? I go, how the hell do you not know about that, you know? So no, look, we, we do talk. It's not a, at least my percentage, you know, it's not a, at least my perspective is it's not a dirty little secret or anything like that. If people want to talk about it, they talk about it. Which is great because, you know, another reason of why, you know, I would agree to come on and do something like this, you know, there's stigma with this stuff. You know, there's been a stigma for a long time. And I think we're turning a corner. It feels like it, but there's still a lot of work to be done. How does that show up in your kind of line of work? How does the stigma to unidentified flying objects and pilots, you know, having to deal with

near misses, should we engage, should we not? How do stigma show up in your field? Well, the way it comes up is, you know, it's kind of those that have had an experience and those who haven't, right? For the guys that have run into the stuff on a daily basis, for them it's real. And they have. And they have. You know, that's a fact. Pilots are running into unidentified flying objects in a daily basis. They're seeing them picking them up on a radar. That's a fact, okay. For them, it's real. And stigma be damned, because you can't tell a guy something that just flew by your cockpit at, you know, 50 feet away from you. You can't deny that.

The way the stigma shows up is for those who aren't interested in this stuff, who don't understand the aviation safety aspects associated with UAP. And so that's kind of why I classify it that way, those that have had experiences in those who haven't. And for those who haven't, it's just hard for them to wrap their mind around it. You know, it's still a big mystery. We don't know what this stuff is. 2017, Jeremy and I were able to break the story of the Tick-Tag twice on coast to coast, months before it came out in the New York Times. And because of how Jeremy treated Commander Fravor with respect, that word gets around. Yeah.

It helps cultivate other sources and has served both of us really well. When that story comes out, though, it leads to changes in the Navy. I mean, the Navy comes out and says, we want to make it easier for our aviation. and other service members to go ahead and report this stuff when it happened so that there's no stigma less stigma attached it's not going to hurt your career right the Navy the Navy has led the charge I mean I want to know if this is a source of pride for you when you compare it to say the Air Force which I'll just say it they're flat out dragging their butts on this stuff they've been uncooperative with Congress with the UAP Task Force you know that they're sitting on a big pile of information that they're not sharing and if they'll have to be drag kicking and screaming the Navy at least ostensibly is much more cooperative. Are you proud of that the Navy doing that? Without question, you know, I obviously, yeah, I'm biased towards the naval service, but I am proud. You know, I'm proud of the way that we've tried to tackle this topic because there's a real concern out there. You know, we got guys in the air coming across things that we, that we don't know what

they are, and the risk for a near mid-air collision or God forbid an actual mid-air collision, I mean, it's there. It's really there. And the fact that the Navy has tried to, to implement, you know, maybe easier reporting procedures or guidelines to make it okay for pilots not to be afraid to say, hey, you know, I saw this thing. I don't know what it is, but I almost, I almost hit it. Have you seen that change? I mean, now, is it easier to report UFOs? Because I remember when you were looking to, when are the new commandments coming down on, like, how to report this? You know, and from personal experience, you know, from my perspective, as a, as a Helo guy, I don't think it trickled down to our level necessarily because maybe it wasn't, you know, we weren't necessarily the type of platform that was encountering the stuff on a daily basis.

But again, if you talk to guys on the East Coast, based out of Oceania, certainly the paradigm and shifted for guys like that for sure. And you've directly talked about it. Absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, for guys like them, it was definitely a noticeable change. Was it fleetwide? I can't speak to that, you know. I don't really have an opinion on that. But the fact that, like you said, George,

the fact that the Navy did at least seem to be taking the lead on absolutely, it's a point of pride for me. You know, I won't bash my other brothers and sisters and the other services, but, you know, I can't speak to what their plans are, what their intentions are with all this stuff. But there have been some glaring silences, if I can classify it that way, from other services that it kind of makes you, scratch your head because this is not only a Navy thing, it's not only an East Coast thing,

it's not only a West Coast thing, right? It's worldwide. People are seeing this stuff everywhere, you know. So you have direct knowledge that unidentified craft that don't seem to have the typical what we'd call propulsion, right, what we what we'd see, rotors wash, pooms, heat signatures, that these are being encountered by our, we'll, we, we'd see. We'll We'll just say, you know, Department of Defense, we'll say are all branches of the military that are in the air doing this, that they're being encountered. They're encountering these things that we don't know who's they are. We don't know who operates them. We don't know their intent.

I mean, that is, you were saying that, right? Yeah, I mean, that's my opinion. Yeah, that's your opinion. Again, I'm not speaking on behalf of the DOD or the service in any way. But, no, I mean, my, yeah, I mean, if you're asking me, in my opinion, absolutely. That would seem important to me that our defense systems, as my perspective, is that that seems important to me, that our defense, we should know whose vehicles these are. Absolutely. Look, at the end of the day, the profession of arms is to defend the country and to defend our allies around the world. And if we're coming across of that we don't know what it is, you know, we want to know what that is.

You know, I've heard there's been some criticism in the media over the years about, you know, this threat narrative, you know. Well, I'm sorry, but you can't blame a guy whose job it is is to assess threats and take care of them. I mean, that's our job, you know. Explain that a little bit more for people that are totally new to this, is that the threat narrative. So the idea that there are UFOs. The idea that, the idea that, you know. They're unidentified objects. Sure.

And what's the threat narrative? What is that you're talking about? Well, the threat narrative being that a lot of the language that some people have used when talking about UAP or unidentified is, you know, for example, that ATIP, right? Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification, right? The word threat is in the title of the program, right? And there were people that had some problems with that or issues. Why are they looking at this as a threat?

We don't know what they are. Well, again, from the perspective of the profession of arms, from the perspective of the defense and the national interests, the United States unless you know what you're dealing with you kind of have to unfortunately it's a again just my opinion here it's just a default position that you kind of have to take because at the end of the day we don't know what we're dealing with you know so i think that's why i don't know if that answer is yeah i mean so you've got the one perspective which is that from from a national defense position we should know who's making these objects who's flying and what the intent is but if we don't know we better find out and then you know from another

perspective it's a flight safety issue you've got these objects and people every day There have been some near misses. And then there's the bigger existential questions that come after that. Another narrative about the UFO phenomenon has been here for so long. Maybe we're just seeing them more because our technology and our radar systems are integrated. We have better camera systems, better radars. Maybe it's always been here. And we're just, you know, the idea that there's an increase in frequency, it appears that way to us.

But we don't know for certain, right? Because maybe they've always been there and we're just seeing them more. Who knows? Yeah. Can I ask you sort of, have you become sort of the unofficial clearinghouse for UFO stories and encounters and tidbits within your circle? I'm asking that in the context of what we talked about before. The Navy is a small place, you said. So does the word get around, hey, this guy is interested in this?

I'm not saying you're conducting a secret study on behalf of the Navy, but you come across people who have their own stories. Yeah, absolutely. You know, just in the course of your natural meeting people and getting people and getting. to know folks. You know, that's not the first thing I tell people when I meet them, but, you know, you get to know people and you work in close quarters and you're working in long hours, long days and long nights sometimes, you know, and you can get to know people. And once I'm, you know, once I've become comfortable with someone and then I feel like, okay, I can, I can, you know, again, stigma, right? Right. If I'm comfortable, if I'm, you know, if, if, if I trust them that

they won't think I'm a crack pot or, yeah, I'll mention, hey, you know, and it's always, It's funny, you know, before there was no real inroad to that conversation. But now, hey, you ever heard of Dave Frager, you know, hey, you ever heard of, you know, name your, name your incident or name your, like a lot. It's changed over the last five years or so. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So people are, our Navy, people are taking this seriously. Well, should I reword, worth the question. Yeah, yeah. Look at, again, is it your experience? Yeah, sure. Is it your experience that people, that, that you see, are taking this series?

Yeah, yeah. I think they're, well, they're certainly taking it more seriously now than they ever have. I'll tell you that, you know. There's been a big sea change, you know. But yeah, you know, people, you know, again, you know, people, and I've told, you know, close buddies of mine, you know, that I've flown with, if you ever see something, you don't be afraid to let me know, you know. Right.

But you don't go like, hey, I'm John, nice to meet you. Have you seen an alien? No, no, no, no, no. No. Yeah. I mean, that's not, you know, no and John, he, you know, he's not. And no and John, he's always been really at times real skeptical as he should be, but he always goes for, okay, what's the core of it, right?

So I think one of the big things that we're going to talk about, but I want to hear about your perspective on what the world has seen when it comes to the big ones. Let's talk about, you know, when it comes to the Tick-Tac video, when it comes to the Gimble video, so many people have tried to say, nothing to see here and move on and they try to dissect it to bits where it's almost like a syndrome that they're not seeing what's right in front of them. Yeah. So can you maybe tell us a little bit about those videos that kind of came forward?

Did that change the way that you saw stuff? Or was that interesting to you? I mean, for me, absolutely. You know, it definitely did. Again, those videos are tough because if you don't know what you're looking at, you don't know what you're looking at. And it's hard to dissect what those videos are presenting to you. But, you know, again,

just with my background and my experience in an aviator, when you look at something like Gimble, for example, or you look at something like Tick-Tac or GoFast, what have, any number of videos that have been released, when you're looking at that stuff, and you realize, okay, and you hear the audio of the pilots as well talking about it, you know, you got an object going against the wind,

winds 120 knots, or whatever the heck it is. You see this thing maintaining flight, presumably with no visible means of propulsion or traditional control services. I mean, that's huge. Now you get somebody, you know, an average Joe Citizen who says, well, you know, it's not an HD. Well, okay, that's, all right, that's...

Hey, it's grainy. Yeah, it's grainy, you know. Neil Tyson said that. I pissed me all that. You know, to that point, you know, to that point, you know, it's unfortunate that someone who should, at least in my opinion, someone who should know better would say something like that, right?

Folks got to remember, you know, this is not, you know, the tools and instruments that we're flying with, number one, they're not iPhones, okay? They're not designed to be taking selfies in the air and posts them on social media afterwards to get likes and posts. These are targeting pods, weapons systems. Listen, these are, these are weapons systems that we have been trained on to defend the American people with, you know. These are weapons systems. They're not designed to capture UFOs. They're not designed to capture UAP.

We're not UFO hunters, you know? We're not there to make a movie or a TV show We're not there to make a movie or a TV show. We're there to defend the nation So when people talk about the quote-unquote quality of the footage or the lack of HD or 1080p or whatever the hell you want to call it It's just a little frustrating because people have to realize and remember that look at these are these The systems that we're using to capture this stuff we're not designed to do that. They were designed to wage war on behalf of the America if I'm being blunt,

and that's what they were designed to do. We just happened to be in the right place at the right time or the wrong place to the wrong time, however you want to look at it from which perspective. But people have to understand that, look, these videos,

there's a lot more there that people need to inherently understand and realize there's something weird here. It's not... Yeah, and look, the exclusion of information drives me crazy, right? So we can't go against the TikTok information

because you got Commander David Fraber standing out there and be like, oh no, I saw it, that's it. You know, you've got Commander Chad Underwood coming forward. Like, nope, I filmed it, that's what happened. As soon as it shot off to the left, I had them call and look on radar all around. It was gone.

He said it didn't move out of the field of view camera. It was gone. And if you listen to the interview, you know. And so what's from, frustrating what's difficult is we have like the gimbal. Now you can hear what the pilots are saying. And people are saying, oh, let's just exclude what they're saying and let's just look at the video. Well, hold up a second. Isn't that evidence? Isn't witness testimony to corroborate visual evidence? There's a whole fleet of them up there. Isn't that important? So it's so convenient when people try to

dissect things to their desire to be able to minimize something. So the translation, really in my eyes, the missing link is a lot of these active duty people that, won't go on record. They won't go forward for fear of their career, for fear of reprisal. If we could just get people to talk with us about this, to go on record, that's something that I think really builds out public understanding of what we're seeing in these cases. Now, we don't have that yet for the gimbal. I think we will at some day, but we don't right now. But I think our goal is to take all the information and look at it and not just what's convenient to us. Well, look, I think especially, you know, over the past,

few weeks, months, you know, there's been this weird effort amongst certain outlets to kind of try and just dismiss all this stuff away. Oh, you know, oh, we figured it out, you know, case closed. And I know from personal experiences, guys that I know and other people that I trust, look at there, there's going to be more people coming out. There's going to be more folks, you know, there are witnesses out there. And when the time is right for them, I'm sure they'll come out and say, what they have to say, and it'll be really hard to, you know, to stick that toothpaste back in the tube. It's already out.

Meaning, what would stop somebody from coming forward, you know, to the public? Sure, a lot of things, you know, the fact that they're still in, you know, that... Still in the military. They're still in the military, they're still active duty. The stigma, like I said, I think we're turning a corner, but it's still out there, you know, depending on, you know, hey, I don't know, maybe you're in a squadron where the CEO tells you, hey, you know what, I don't care what the hell you saw. I'm not saying this is happening. I'm just saying, you know, it's person to person. You know, so the folks that you're around

and you're with, if they're not, you know, if they're not okay with you talking about it, that's going to be real hard for that person that want to come out and say something. So in this last five years, so much tremendous change, the public has energized, Congress, major media, but there is considerable pushback. We've been saying publicly for a while now, the closer you get to the truth, the closer you get to the goods, the harder the pushback is going to be. And it's not only from within the military and the Pentagon, people don't want this to be taken seriously, it's their emissaries in the public sector, debunkers, who, all right, Tick-Tac is a bird, it's a seagull, it's flare, it's afterburners, it's a drone, it's a

balloon, you know, all those things, let's see what sticks. They'll throw all that stuff out, and we saw the same thing with all the 2019 incidents that we're going to talk about. the efforts to debunk this stuff, you see those kinds of excuses against the testimony of somebody like Commander Frave or Commander Underwood, you know, Ryan Graves, people like that, credible people who are there, who see it, who are experienced. They know what their equipment and their eyes are showing them,

or telling them, and yet these people try to debunk this stuff. You mentioned about media pushback. New York Post has a headline, what does it say? Yes, 2019 cases all explained. Okay, so let's get to, Let's get to the brass tachshunds. One of the big things that I wanted the three of us to talk about is what actually happened in 2019 off the West Coast. Why this is important to George and myself is because we broke that story.

We broke that story together over, so for everybody that doesn't know about it, in 2019, in the summer, there was a series of workups that were going on off the coast of California. So basically, we had about 10 Navy warships that were. prepping for departure. And during that time, during that workup, there was a three-night period where there was continuous swarms of unidentified simultaneously around 10 Navy warships that I know of. And it was such a dramatic event. And while we were like, wow, this is incredible. And then luckily we were able to, George and I were able to get a lot of footage. It was part of a UFO internal report, we were able to put out slides from that report, images, videos, nine pieces of corroborative

visual as evidence. George brought in these three images from the East Coast, and we dropped them basically all in the same few days. And then on the West Coast, which is 2019, you know, it was UFO. People on the ships. It was UFO event series. Now, we have done a lot of work in the meantime, and I've consulted with you on a lot about these, just, you know, personally, that there was a lot of witnesses to this. Now, a lot of witnesses have said, you know, Jeremy, I want you to know what happened. Here we go. We're going to go through it all. But, you know, I'm not coming for it. I'm not going to talk about it, right? Now, you weren't involved in the 2019 series of events, but I think it's really important that here is now a case that the public can really sink their

teeth into it. I maintain that this, we provided the best we could, what I would consider a dream case. We have thermal imagery. We have IRR, infrared. We have radar, footage and we have what I call deck footage, just normal optics from the deck of a boat. So it's not like just a story anymore. Now we have all these pieces of corroborative visual evidence that really need to be dissected. What's happened since we've done that is obviously a lot of people go in and they try to dismiss certain things because that's what they want to do. And there's no real voices of the people involved to stand up and say, well, hold on. You know, that's not how it went down.

But I think that's going to change today. So that's what we need to talk about now is how the media has handled that durationally, a lot of excitement. And then we have these ridiculous stories that get propagated, the one that George just mentioned, New York Post. A fine newspaper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like 2019 Drorm's series solves. Before we get into that article or anything, what we need to do is go through each of the pieces of footage and evidence. but I think that I want to hear from you first.

Before we jump into that, are you satisfied that we have figured this all out? Or are you here today because you're not satisfied? Well, look, and again, just my opinion, right? And nothing more than that. I think there's more meat on that bone. You know, there's more to be, I don't, the case is certainly not closed on that incident. I wasn't there personally, but you mentioned before, you know, hey, Big Ocean, Little Navy, you know, and you come across folks and again just your natural course of your

career, folks that I personally know and work with now, who again, you know, you get to know them a little bit more and you kind of figure out each other's backgrounds and where have you been before and, you know, and someone will mention, oh yeah, I was on, you know, I was on USS name your ship. Well, you know, that ship I know happens to have been involved in that 2019 series, right? Talk to someone else. Oh, yeah, I was on U.S. You know, whatever. And you go, oh, interesting. Hey, were you there in 2019?

Yeah, I was there in 2019. Oh, okay. And again, it's just this natural conversation that happens where you finally get to hear firsthand accounts of people that were no kidding there, saw things with either their own eyeballs or on the systems that they're trained to work on, right? The systems that they're trained to fight with. And you get to hear their side of the story. their side of the story, right? It's not, you know, it's not a piece of footage. It's not a, it's not an audio recording. It's no kidding. Talking to the folks firsthand, you know. And again, this is you're not preparing a classified report for higher-ups in the Navy. No, no, no.

This is just, you're talking to colleagues, you're talking to colleagues, you know, water cooler talk, right, if you want to call it, you know, conversations that you have with folks just seeing you're in your day-to-day, you know, and again, we happen to be in the military and we have to be active duty but it's not no it's not a concerted effort it's not a we're not compiling a report or anything like that and it's just like no oh you were there let's talk about that but again it's not you know your your impression is from speaking to them people who were there sure the incidents we're to talk about is these are not normal drones you didn't buy these at kmart no again uh just my own opinion uh and and here and talking with folks that were there yeah no it it doesn't

um no unfortunately the new york post i think got it wrong okay well i'll put it that way into it, you know, bit by bit, let's get in so that we all better understand it. So you want to start with the Omaha? Talk about that. Sure, yeah. Okay. So with the USS Omaha, one of the first bits that George and I released is a, it appears to be a sphere that appears to go into the water.

There's a lot in there. So let's maybe play that first video and then we can just say, what are we seeing here? Let's bring everybody up to date so we can start talking about it. So Zach, do you got that first video? video. Okay. So we can, you know, see it there. And we've, we've all seen it a hundred times. So, you know, got to look at the screen. Thermal imaging system. This is the dead of night, 100 miles off the west coast. Yeah. And this thing is following USS Omaha. Simultaneously in this 100 mile radius, which is, you know, far from shore relatively, you've got

these objects. This is a spherical shaped object. This is thermal. So it's basically a heat sensing camera, John, in your experience, like, what are we seeing? Like, should we see plumes of heat? Should we see? What are we seeing? What are we not seeing here? Yeah. And again, this is kind of one of those videos where, unless you know what you're looking at, it's hard to appreciate the significance of what you're, yeah, you see it blinking and out there and disappear. On that particular video, what you see is what you get. If the image is representing an oval shape, the heat signature of whatever was put now was oval in nature, okay? What are we not seeing on that clip?

We're not seeing wings. We're not seeing wings. We're not seeing stabilators. We're not seeing rotors. We're not seeing exhaust, right? It's a thermal sensing system. So, meaning you're going to catch that heat. And trust me, I can't tell you how many thousands of times I've seen something like that on my own, you know, flying in the helo.

You know, yeah, you see it. So it's very obvious. You know, the jet exhaust on an F-18 taken off the deck of the deck of it. an aircraft carrier at night is very, hell, even during the day, it's very, very noticeable, it's very distinguishable, you know, even if you show me a 0.5 second clip of that, I can tell you exactly what it is. We're not seeing that in this video. There's none of that there. Could it be a balloon? I mean, it followed that ship for an hour and there's 14 other ones around it. I don't see how a balloon could coincidentally follow a ship for the duration of time period

that the cruise said it did and in winds, okay? It's not. not the dead it's you know there there's winds out there you know off the coast and typically a balloon will will drift in the direction of the wind do you know of any drones that look like that they're around with no wings rotor tail no known propulsion no me personally no so usually with usually with fleer i've seen a lot of drone footage with fleer and you see even if it is a you can military grade drone you see you can make yes absolutely you can see the if it's a quadcopter let's You can see the individual copters on the four sides of the thing. You can make all that stuff out, you know.

The people in charge of the Omaha that I've spoken with at various levels all the way down, but people are directly involved with, you know, fighting the ship and capturing. We never seen anything like this. It has no means of propulsion that we can see. And in fact, it went into the water. And something that I know is that, you know, there was a sub that was sent after to look for wreckage, to look for the craft itself, and it wasn't there, was gone. They called it within these, what I've been exposed to, a transmedium vehicle.

And we're seeing those words reflected now in Congress and Senate with the UFO whistleblower act, trans medium. What does that mean? Something that can penetrate from space to air to sea with absolute impunity, no inertial effect. That's what they believe. That's what we reported. The question is, did it go into the water?

It seems to disappear into the water or disappear altogether. And some have suggested, well, it just was a... over the horizon. What do you know? You have further information, though. I think both of you do, right? Yes, certainly I do. So... Did it go into the water? It did. Not just it, not just one. Remember, so this is like over the Omaha itself, let's say we have 14 targets. I recently have spoken with people who were in charge of going out. At the end of the video, you can hear the dude says launch helo, right? They did. They launched a helo. And the pilots and the crew on that Hilo reported seeing these things go above their flight altitude to evade them and then into the

water to evade them. So now I've got direct eyewitnesses that saw them go into the water, track them down into the water. We always thought they were going into the water. That's what our government told us was happening in these documents we obtained, right? However, now we got eyewitnesses. Now, are they going to get it to come forward with me? Probably not, but like I'm telling you, and I've been right about everything else. So the Hilo guys, that would be you. That would be you. Sure. Yeah, yeah. No, that's a pretty typical response. If there was something, you know, because you don't know what it is, hell, maybe it was a, you know, maybe there's somebody that needs help in the water. And that's why you would send a helo out there to conduct some sort of search and recovery effort, you know, to try and recover whatever it was.

And gosh, you know, I'd love to, I'd love to talk to those pilots myself. And that one, I think, would be very easy to connect you. That's like just somebody who and this is something you know out of his personal interest if he wants to talk him great I mean I don't need the backup for you to say it's real but the thing is for your knowledge that's so important So 100% yeah no the look at and and let's be honest and I know we're gonna talk about here more in a second But those aren't the only witnesses no we're about to go deep bro so yeah so so basically I just wanted to bring into the forefront of our conversation Before we leave the Omaha so we got one of the other videos that you made that's That's what we're going now.

Is the radar screen. That's right. Which shows there's like 14 of these things popping in and out around that ship. Yeah. That kind of circumstance. I mean, I'm sure Navy ships encounter drones and balloons and things that, whether they're closer to shore or out in the ocean. But would that be cause for alarm?

Maybe have these targets of unknown origin all around on the, around the ship. Absolutely. And I hear, look it, I follow UFO Twitter and I see the banter going back and forth. and I hear folks complaining about, well, you know, why don't you just shoot them down? Well, hold on a second. You know, there's, you know, people have to understand, again, it's not like the movie, it's not like on TV. We're not just going guns ablaze and everywhere we go as much as people would like to think

that. There are very specific steps that have to happen for any Navy unit to track something and certainly engage something. You know, I mean, when you're, when you've got something leaving the barrel, I mean, that's a big deal. You're just off the coast of California. As people forget, too. You're just off the coast of California.

We're in our own backyard. You know, we're not going out there loaded to bear every time we go. You know, majority of our flying is training. We're out there training, you know. And no, we don't train with live ordinance. In fact, training with live ordinance happens less often than not, you know. So, no, yes, it is a big deal that there were unknowns or unidentified swarming our units. Are there procedures in place to counteract that?

Sure, but you got to remember, we're not overseas. We're in our own backyard conducting training. Which is both more concerning and, but you know, right? Yeah, okay, so here's the deal. The first thing is what you're saying is you look before you pull the trigger. So I'll give my two cents on it, which is directly from some of the individuals fighting these ships, is that there is a triangle of kinetic action, which is opportunity, intent, and capability. So I asked a lot of the sailors and a lot of people involved who would be pulling the trigger.

I was like, so how do you feel about this now that it's all done? They think, I feel like I failed in my duties. I go, well, what do you mean? It like haunts some of these folks, right? Because they didn't, it didn't seem like an aggressive maneuver. It seemed more like of a surveillance and performance. These are the words that were said to me. Remember, and I'll be specific because I don't think people know, but around these 10 ships,

there was usually one high altitude. and we know that it went up to about 21,000 feet, which is important to keep in mind. And then there was this ballet around them, taunting, coming in at an angle. However, there was action taken. There was action taken. I think we'll talk about this, which is that on two of the ships in particular,

there was anti-drone technology that was attempted to be used. And different types on one of the ship, it was three different types, three different ways, all of which were ineffective. Now, I said, and they went out and did a test after, right? Some of the guys went out and did a test after to see, hey, does this stuff work? It worked like a charm, right? They'd be able to hit things down, return to center, no problem.

But didn't work in this instance. It did not work in this instance. And I know personally three ships that, was three, that tried to, was two or three, that tried to do this actual defense maneuver, which, you know, obviously it's like no big deal. Something's there. You can shoot it down. But you can get it down. But also, there was attempts to just find out where are they coming from, right?

So we'll get more into that, but let's show the radar footage. I want to get your opinion on there. So the second video, Zach, should be radar footage. So we've all seen this, and I just want to see in the middle, right, in the middle of the image, that's the ship, right? Yep. Okay. And so you see these things popping in and out. The reason this is important is because, again, it's all about corroborative data, okay?

It's not just the witnesses. It's not just the thermal, the thermal footage of an object going in the water. You know, you've got screen capture of real objects around the ship. Yeah, and there's up to, I think, 14. And the thing is they're kind of going in and out of radar. Because in this radar system, if they go below that scan volume, they can kind of disappear for a second. Sure. So they were wondering what's going on. Turns out a lot of these were apparently going into the water. and having this transmedium vehicle.

Okay, great. So now you've got these illuminated objects, about 10 to 14 feet in diameter, that have no control surfaces that are flying with impunity and going in and out of the water, going up to like 21,000 feet at least that we know of. I mean, this is pretty,

this is starting to build an interesting case. We've got radar now, we've got thermal, and a bunch of eyewitnesses that people haven't heard from yet, right? Yeah. What I'm at, as somebody who's completely ignorant into this technology, I'd be wondering, what do they doing?

Yeah. What is the purpose of that? As a surveillance, is intelligence gathering? What would be your guest? Well, that's a million dollar question, right? Is who's operating them, you know, number one? What's their intent? Because it's a little, it's ambiguous, right?

They didn't crash into the ship, thank God. They didn't, they weren't running into people or anything like that. But they were certainly, like you said, and like we've heard from folks we've talked to, there was definitely this sense of maybe some sort of surveillance and performance aspect of it, right? Yeah, look what I can do.

Look what I can do. And we'll talk about it a little bit later on, but these objects performing maneuvers that are just, I mean, come on, they're not drones, okay? They're not conventional. And we're going to get into some of what witnesses have said, but I want to go to the third piece that I think is important. It's not as visually stunning. It's the least visually stunning, but the next video, Zach, I call it deck footage.

And this just, why this is important to me. So you got like a thermal thing and you're like, okay, that's probably just, you could discard it, say, that's probably just a balloon. Then you get radar and you realize, okay, no, this is something more substantial. Then you get this footage. And I thought it was so important, released it last because it was least visually stunning. But why this footage to me is important is because now you can't say that that's just, you know, some hot or cold balloon. Like, okay, well, it's self-luminous. So now these things got lights.

So all of a sudden, they're machines, right? This is like, so I found this to be important that they're self-luminous, and this is just some dude on the deck filming, hey, they're, you know, they're surrounding our ship. What's going on? Right. But I think that that was lost on a lot of people. Again, it, it establishes, in my mind, corroborative visual evidence with each new source of evidence. You get another perspective on, you know, I've got to take this a little more seriously. So that video stuff is not super impressive, but do you agree that it's good to have another layer, right? I would never discount any of those pieces. They're all pieces to the puzzle, okay? They're all pieces of the puzzle. And right now, we don't know if we even have all the

pieces to build the puzzle. I'm pretty sure there's something being held back to be honest. I think so, too. And so anything that we can, we can get to try and a painting accurate picture would happen, I think is important. We put these images out together. Jeremy first on his website, Extraordinarybeliefs.com, and then me on KLASTV. And of course, they have a range of responses from the UFO world,

including from people who don't want this to be true. Either they don't like us, they want to slap us down. So they go to the Pentagon and say, is this real? And we made a point that all that footage was in the hands of the UAP Task Force, in the Pentagon. And to our absolute astonishment, the Pentagon comes back and says, yes, it's real.

It was recorded by the Navy. It gives us a little bit more credibility and shot down a lot of people who wanted to shoot us down. And also, I mean, let's, again, because this is like a brand new conversation we're having about it. Let's be clear for everybody who doesn't know, which is that, and I've said it before, and we've said it before, let's say it again. So we had knowledge of certain assets that were in a UFO briefing that was being passed around within our military and a government, to train people in order how to identify true UFOs and then how to report them.

Now this was a classified briefing that was going around within the military that as journalists we got wind of, but inside, inherently unclassified was some, not everything we put out, but some. So we were able to get that information out to the public. It was never going to be seen publicly, but we got it out. But on top of that, we somehow got it. a bunch of footage that our Pentagon didn't have a UAPTF, the task force, they didn't have it. So we were like kind of astonished.

Well, we should make sure they have it because we're about to release it. So luckily we know people that it was the right way to do it. And we said, hey, this is coming out. I want to make sure you got it. So we tried to do everything in the right way. Maybe that's why they so quickly validated that this is real military footage filmed of unidentified, included in the investigation in the UFOs. Maybe that's why, because we did it right and got it to it.

So that's how it went down for the audience that doesn't know about this, right? But there's more to it. It wasn't just one ship, USS Omaha. There was also the USS Russell that we released not only video of together, but also a slide that was contained in that briefing. And this one gets everybody hot and bothered because, first of all, it's green, right? So let's pull it up and let's talk about it. Let's go through this one.

So, Zach, the next video. Slides first? Oh, yeah. Let's do the slide of the, Omaha. I think that's the next one. You're right. This is an actual briefing slide that is unclassified. However, it was contained within a classified briefing as journalist George and I were able to obtain this image. This is a UAS unmanned aerial system, some people say. Spherical in shape, right? They say it right there, spherical in shape. They searched the water for wreckage. The search was

ineffective. One of the people that actually designated like what these were, you know, it was like the only thing we had that we could classify it as was unmanned because it wasn't, let's say, big enough as a normal craft to hold a human. So it was a UFO, it was unidentified, still is unidentified, but we call it unmanned era system. And look, this is straight out of a briefing. And what's so important to me was that it's not just like we're making this up. Other things went in front of our eyes when we're investigating all this stuff. We were exposed to other information, is what I'm trying to say. Let's move on to the last bit of USS Russell.

USS Russell was another ship that was out during this workup. And USS Russell, it had a slightly different experience than the other ship. Same kind of thing, swarms. But when George and I saw what was the videos and we saw what was reported, we'll talk about the slide and what was reported. But let's watch the video. They look triangular by angle of observation. However, we were told that it was in things that passed in front of our eyes that they were a pyramid in shape.

And so we reported that and we put it out and this is the video. So you've seen this one. Pretty famous now. This is all over the world. Yeah, all of the place. And I'm familiar with this clip. And, you know, look at, at the end of the day, whether it's a pyramid or a triangle or whatever the hell it is, you know, I think what's lost on people again is the fact that there was a there there to begin with. There was something there.

Yeah. Well, let's describe people. So what you're referencing is that there's this big argument about the shape of it, right? That's what people are saying. It's a lens effect. And actually, they went all the way up to Congress. At first, it was the little NVG night vision. It was a PBS 14 is the standard issue since 2001 to our armed services.

So the guys got this and he's filming through it with a camera. So at first they said this one had a triangle aperture, right? And that's what's causing this effect. fact, this distortion, right? And then I was like, looking at it because I got one, and I'm like, no, man, nah, they'd have to, like, consciously put tape on it. So then they kind of backtracked, move the goalposts. Now it's the camera that's doing this. And we started asking people involved, the funniest thing someone said to us was, look, if it was pyramid in shape, it would still look like a pyramid, even if there was an aperture issue, which I thought was hilarious, right?

That's true. So, but I'm not, I'm not staking my claim. Yeah, we don't have a dog in this. I don't care if it looks like a pyramid. Is it an unknown craft? That's what we wanted to know. And yeah, it is. What matters is there was something there that wasn't supposed to be that we don't know what it was. 700 feet, as you said to me a bunch of last...

There's a range finder. It was 700 feet above the deck. And there were three of them. And so we don't have all the videos from that, you know, but there were three of them close proximity to one another, 700 feet off of the tail of it, right? And it would follow the ship. At one point the ship stopped and the object stopped.

Am I correct in saying that both of you have spoken with crew members who were there? Oh, yeah. So I don't know. You have, John? Yeah, yeah. I'm aware of people that were on those ships at that time. And I can say I've filmed and recorded with people that were not only there at that time, but had the responsibilities and duties that would directly give me information about how these things were dealt with.

And I think really importantly, so let's just get to the basic understanding. I don't care if these things are shaped like Mickey Mouse, their craft of unknown origin, flying with impunity, moving along intelligently controlled. We don't know who is they are. We don't know where they came from, where they launched, where they landed. And we took an action against them from the USS Russell in three different ways, anti-drone technology. and all of which were ineffective. Now, when you talk about witnesses, and we've both talked with people involved,

and again, I have filmed a recorder with, you know, they don't want it out, they're active duty, but they gave me a good by letting me, you know, record with them. Where's your playlist taking you? Down the highway, to the mountains, or just into daydream mode while you're stuck in traffic.

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This summer serve up the cookout classics, Heinz ketchup, and Kraft singles. Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly milty cheese and thick, rich ketchup. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz and Kraft. But I'll tell you this, And do you want to talk about this? We both, one of the witnesses told us as they're watching it, what did these things off the USS Russell?

What did they do? One eyewitness account in particular that was pretty extraordinary. First thing they noticed was these lights kind of up in the sky. Well, what distinguished these lights from any others is kind of the follow-on maneuvers that it executed, right? On the USS Russell. On the USS Russell. This is a sailor that we both know. Yes.

Yeah. Was there. Yeah. They're up top side, you know, outside of the ship, as opposed to some of the other folks we've talked to who are kind of fighting from the inside of the ship, right? Who can't have, they can't corroborate what they see on their screens visually with their eyeballs, right? So that would be like, had a spy one.

Yeah. You also had a spy one. The spy one itself, by the way, has some unique properties. But that spy one, they're inside the ship. So they're kind of getting that internal data of what the, you know, how they're moving, the distances, all that stuff. where they're coming from. Right.

But then there's people top side, right? But then there's people topside, right? And so this one individual in particular that we're talking about, what they saw was, again, these lights up in the sky, and all of a sudden, they just dropped down to the horizon level, you know, almost instantaneously, right? Drops down on the horizon and all of a sudden it starts approaching the ship, okay, from a stern, from the rear of the ship. While as these lights come forward, first it goes up the, the,

the port side of the ship and it's funny to hear them talk about it it's almost like they as this object or light or whatever it was was kind of flying around the ship the sailors on the deck are following it right so the first they're on the aft end of the ship and the object moves forward so they move forward right so now on the port forward side of the ship and it's just floating there right a couple hundred feet in the air then it moves to the starboard side right across and they scurry across the ship and they're kind of going through wherever they need to go to get to the other side and maintain eyes on it because they're just shocked at what they're seeing. And then probably the most dramatic part of the event was once it moved to the starboard side of the

ship, it just shot straight up into the air. And the word that the sailor that we spoke with used was it zoomed, it zoomed, it zoomed straight up in the air. And when you ask them, did you hear anything? Did you, you know, did you see anything in terms of like, you know, again, like exhaust or something like that, you know, or a song, right, did you hear it? Right, exactly. And of course, the answer is no, you know. So this is like, like, sounds like a drone I could buy at Walmart then or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey. Obviously it is not. Yeah, no, obviously, obviously it's not, you know, and again, if we're going to take that sailor's account at Facebook, which I do. And again, I know the individual and I trust it what there's, they're telling it like it is. They're telling it. They're telling us. They're telling us. They're telling us. know what they saw, right? It's dramatic. And no, it's not a drone from Walmart that you can get. And this is one of... Or anywhere else for that matter, that I know of. Yeah. And this is one of many, I witnessed. It's a little frustrating that I'm saying that what's missing is these people coming forward and saying, you know, look, I was part of that and this is what I encountered. It's just hard to get people to come and do that because of the nature of, you know, working in the military.

But these accounts... This whole issue about drones has been used to discredit. and debunk many of these incidents and to strip it of its aura of mystery. Can you, without giving away or crossing a line, can you just talk about drones and whether you see them? You know, you've served both domestically in the Navy and around the globe. Sure. Do you see people send up drones and take pictures of Navy ships? Do you see adversary drones that are intelligence gathering operations?

Well, what I'll say is this, this is that short answer, yeah. Yeah, you know, we're out there. We're as on the front lines as you can get, you know, around the world. And so do we encounter drones? Yeah, we absolutely do. And it's only gotten, you know, as drones have proliferated around the world, they've become cheaper and easier to get a hold of and operate. Yeah, it's something that we encounter, you know, pretty regularly.

You know, me personally on deployments around the world, yeah, we've come across it. So it's definitely something that we have to take into account whenever we're going over the horizon and working around the world. We've read public accounts, media accounts that show that our adversaries are developing drones. We're seeing, you know, you can't talk about this, but in the Ukraine, drones have taken a very pivotal role in that conflict that's going on. So China, Russia, we're sure they're developing some advanced drones. I mean, do you see, I don't know if you can talk about this, do you see drones of a more sophisticated level that you know is being flown by some potential adversary? Unfortunately, I'm going to have to politely decline to comment on that. But like I said, you know, in short, there's something that we have to take into account that we didn't really have to take into account, you know, 10, 12 years ago like we do now.

It's something that we have to consider when we're going, going abroad and, you know, operating. On the drone question. So it also depends on where you are. So, Jeremy, you've got some great information and testimony based on where these, do you don't encounter Kmart drones 100 miles out to sea, right? Yeah. So what we're going to do now is kind of bring a new body of evidence and information to people because for me, it's like, you know, I'm getting all this information and it's starting to

really make me understand what's happening. The argument has never been, by the way, drone. Drone is just a designation of something that doesn't have an immediate physical biological pilot in it. And it's usually determined by the size of the craft and by the maneuverability. But again, remember that drone that we're looking at is spherical with no flight control system. So I'm already a little skeptical that this is a Walmart thing. So what I think now is with the Paul Hamilton, let's talk about this ship. It hasn't gotten a lot of attention.

and this was one of the 10 ships that was part of this 2019 swarm. And very uniquely, the Paul Hamilton was in closest proximity to a ship called the Bass Strait, which is a cargo ship that's run by Pacific Basin. And I want to start with an image that comes up about what the media has said, right, which is that case has been solved. So, Zach, can we bring up the first image from New York, post their horrible, disingenuous, ridiculous, parroted reporting of untruth, because you're about to see it. So if people can see that, mysterious drone attacks on U.S. warships solved.

I don't agree with that assessment. And let's get to specifically why, but to tell you what that's saying. So there was a cargo ship that was right by the Paul Hamilton, and it has been propagated this mythology that these 100 plus drones within a hundred mile radius were launched from and landed back to this ship called the Bass Strait. In fact, it's propagated so much you can even find it on Wikipedia now. If you pull up the Wikipedia, Zach, it's like, it's already, you know, just, okay, Wikipedia, there we go. Just go ahead and read it, George. Pacific Basin is the owner and operator of Bass Strait, a cargo ship that launched a series of drones that surveilled and harassed U.S. Navy ships, including the USS Paul Hamilton and the Waters

of Southern California in 2019. No equivocation. It is the ship that launched these drones. Yeah, so let's get that garbage off the screen because it's false. Okay. So, but here's the deal, man. The reason why you find it trickle down to Wikipedia is because this has been a false narrative that has been propagated by, you know, subpar journalists and subpar journalism sources, and they try to trickle it down all the way. Now, someone just reads that. they're like oh great case solved so let's back the fuck up okay Paul Hamilton so I think what we should do is we should we have two witnesses that we're willing to put their voice out there sure and you can affirm that they are actually no these are guys that I

know personally one of them I work with every day oh wow yeah okay guys guys that I'm very familiar with okay so yeah it's funny man I people are happy to to share on the level that they can about these experiences so I'm going to play, I think an audio clip would be good for the first. We're not using the names though, right? No, no, no. Okay. No way.

So this is Paul Hamilton, 10 ships, 2019 swarm individuals that were there, two of them, want to get their perspective on a few things. So first was, you know, asking, is this a test? Was this just some US government test, you know, during workups, right? And we'll just listen to it and talk about it after. What did you think was going on during this? encounter series. Did you think this was a test? So like we didn't really think anything of it other than that it was like the people testing us like purposefully sent out drones to go harass us. So it's like

the most high end technology following us. And then after the first night, that was pretty apparent that it wasn't. But like at the same time, it's like, hey, you need to track this more closely. You need to follow and see where they go afterwards. Isn't it typical though if that was, were this scenario and you were being tested. At some point afterwards, you would be made aware that you were being tested and whether or not you passed or didn't pass the test. And that never happened?

No, no, because like it wasn't a test. Unless there's like a secret at like the highest level and no one's told anyone, that wasn't a test during SWAT. But like the mindset at the time was test during SWAT, but also looking back with like kind of a clear eye. It's like that makes no sense to have the test that lasts that long at night after a really busy day when we're shooting like live ordinance during the day, it would just get into the safety of like what we were doing

and it wouldn't make any sense for them to do that. So explain to us like, you know, so this is somebody that is saying, he's saying it wasn't a test device, it wasn't our tech. So explain that. So, you know, what you hear that individual talking about in the beginning is, you know, at first, that's kind of the assumption everybody makes, right? Yeah, okay, we're, we're being tested. They're sending out drones, the tests are different tactics and procedures to respond to this thing.

But then it starts happening night after night. It's happening at hours that are really, really outside of the hours of testing, if you want to call it that, right? Because you've got to remember these ships are participating in other training events throughout the entire day, okay? And shooting live ordnance, you heard him talk about that. And like I told you before, whenever we shoot live ordinance, that's a big deal, okay? certainly in real world actions, but also in training. We don't do that lightly, and there's a lot that goes into that. So the idea that we would be executing a high-stress, high-level event during the day,

and then to be tested with drone swarms in the middle of night, because you've got to remember, you've got to put yourself in the mindset in the shoes of these guys back in 2019. This is happening about 2,200 to like 0-3 at night. 10 o'clock at night till about 2 or 3 in the morning sometimes, right? And I mean, is it totally other question that we would be tested at that time? No, but when you consider and you heard him, I'm glad you heard him say it, safety, right? No matter what we're doing, we're always going to operate with a certain level amount of safety precautions imbued into the training event so that we don't do something stupid or God for me get somebody hurt, you know?

So you heard him talk about that. You heard him talk about how, okay, night one, okay, it's probably a test, but then something that you heard him say was that higher folks higher up in the chain of command started asking, hey, start gathering all the data that you can about this and feed it up, okay? And who knows? Maybe it was a test of our information gathering capabilities, but that is not something that would be typically done, right? There's much more important aspects of our taxing procedures that need to be tested, not how

information flows up and down the chain of the community. That's easy. You can easily put a report together and send it up to whoever it needs to get sent up to. Without 100 objects with no point of departure or land. Exactly. So night one, sure, maybe. Night two, three, four, or whatever it is. They realize this is real.

Okay, this is real and there's something else going on here. And oh, by the way, again, folks hiring the chain of command are asking for us to stay on on this case, you know. So to put your point, to go to your point there, is that, okay, first we eliminate, this was our technology and it was just a test. It started becoming very apparent to everybody in the shifts, you know, whoa, this is, this is real. Like, we got to deal with this. This is not just some, you know, even like a black projects test, which by the way, is not something you do like, you know, in that training area around. But I've talked to people that have encountered black

projects and there is a process. Oh, there's a whole process. Tell us about. No, absolutely. Look at, sure, I haven't had this happening personally, but I know of guys personally who have seen stuff they shouldn't have seen. Commander Underwood did, and he told me the process. He has, you know, you come across something that you see that you're not supposed to see, where you're going to get a call. You know, especially as an aviator, you know, as soon as you land on deck and you start doing all the necessary paperwork required for any flight anyway,

you're also going to get a call from the appropriate intelligence folks and be like, hey, sorry, I needed to come by the intel shop, and you got to fill out the, it's a huge hassle. Right? And as, you know, I can imagine that for, you know, someone, you know, a civilian, let's say, man, I'd love to see something like that. No, not really. It's kind of a pain of the ass. And at the end of that process, do they say you didn't see that? And at the end of that process, you know, you assign, you agree to whatever paperwork they tell you tell you that, you know, hey, you can't talk about this, you know. That didn't happen with anybody in 2019. Certainly no one that we've talked to and not that I've heard of through other channels either.

And also the head of the Navy was asked about this and made a statement and they was like, you know, have you figure this out? Who's the are they? It is undetermined. Everybody we know involved in this, we don't know who these were. But let's just start with eliminating. These were not ours. That's the consensus of everybody. That's the best of our understanding. That's it. Despite their capabilities, they weren't ours. Well, it wasn't a test. It certainly wasn't a test. You know. So I want to play another clip now. And this one is really important.

We kind of put this forward in one of our first episodes, you know, that these things were coming from the West. And it took me a while to understand it. And you really, you know, this is when I like go to guts. Hey, man, does this mean anything? He's like, it means a lot. Okay. So let me see. Let's hear what he had to say.

And then I want to hear John's reaction. So from what direction was this swarm coming? It was actually coming to the West. who was coming from the west. Yeah, from the west. So over water. Over water away from land. I mean, like, the only thing you have over there is like,

Hawaii is probably the closest thing west of us. And when they were departing, what direction were they departing to? They would depart in different bearings than they came in on. So normally always from the west and then departing in a different direction? Yeah. Yeah. not exclusively but yeah pretty constantly it'd be a different thing which is weird right like so if you deploy a drone to go check something out it would come back so that was like

something significant enough for us to like report the hey and saying you're going a different direction that they came okay why is that important yeah what is he saying why is it yeah so again you know the whole fact that these things were coming from the west and you hear him say you know I think the closest thing to the west is Hawaii, right? And Hawaii is, you know, I don't know how many thousands of nautical miles from the coast of San Diego. There's nothing out there. There's just open water to the west, okay? And like they mentioned, if it were a drone, right, or a typical drone being operated by a typical drone operator,

typically if you're going to go check something out, and if I'm sitting here with the drone out, I got the joystick in my hand, and I've got the drone in my lap here and I'm going to launch it across the street, I'm going to go straight there and come straight back, right? It takes battery power to, you know, whenever you have long durations of time of flight. Just the controlling aspect of the drone, you want to maintain, you know, eyes on it all the time. I guess you could make the argument that, well, you know, if you're really trying to surveil, you kind of don't want to come in on the same bearing that you're coming out on. But regardless, these things were always coming from the West and then depart.

into another direction. There's nothing out the west but ocean. Yeah, so even if we're talking off of another ship, let's be really clear. So what's happening is in this 100 mile radius, swarms simultaneously on 10 ships, and we're giving one example of Paul Hamilton, where these objects are appearing from the west where there is no landmast, there's no ship that's going to be launching them from the west. And then they're departing after long periods of durational use, they're departing in another direction. So this causes a problem of where's the launch, where's the land.

Yeah. The other part would be tracking them. So let me play dumb devils advocate. Let's say you've developed a super duper double secret probation drone that can fly hundreds of miles and you launch it from say San Diego or Catalina and it's going to buzz these ships. You should be able to track those things. Those ships should be able to track them. Yeah.

Coming there and going back. That's a great point. So even on the systems that they were tracking them on, they always came from the west. So it's not like it, it's not like it, you know, it's not like it launched from San Diego, did a big circle around and then came from the West. No, it was always coming from the West originally. Does that make sense? Yeah, but there's no drone that you know of. Not that I know of, no.

No. No. No. Fly from Hawaii from the West. No. And the other thing is we're hearing from somebody very isolated, was there from the Paul Hamilton, but those that I've spoken with who were in a position to know this on the Omaha said, I'm going to regret saying this to you, Jeremy, but they just seemed to appear. That's when we started talking about the fact they were going into the water.

So the idea is if they're going off rate or off scan volume and even optically, as I told you, the helo pilots are seeing go into the water, they're likely coming out of the water too. So that's what's really interesting, this possibility that they're transmitting from the water and descending into the water. That's what could there be a submarine out there that's launching drones somewhere in the water and if so would we able to detect a sub and detect where those drones are coming from right Right you can I think I'm gonna yeah I think I won't build it yeah but even even if you I mean I can tell you from public You know stuff that that that is not a technology that is currently readily available by any nation to be in our waters that I am aware of public knowledge Anybody else that I know that it that would know so this this this is this is not a technology that is

This idea that, look, if there was a foreign nation submarine within that radius of those 100 miles ships that were launching, wouldn't that kind of be big news? Yeah, that'd be a big deal. Yeah, I think that'd be a big deal. So it's kind of a ridiculous idea that people, they'll just throw it out there, like, they were probably launched as swarms by subs. We know that that has been thrown out there, that even newspapers have done it, the New York Times. So in advance of the anticipated Halloween release of this UAP report to Congress, the New York

times does a hit piece, call it a pre-bunking, where they have these general generic explanations. Oh, yeah. Same thing as that New York Post story. We've explained this all. It's no big deal. It's got to be drones. Yeah. And of course, we don't know of any drones that fit the bill for this. So I've unsatisfied so far as we're going through this exercise together. I'm unsatisfied so far that we have figured this out. I am unsatisfied with it. It's some sort of other nation sub that, you know, that would be huge news, man. It's, you know, off the coast of California, you know, within that 100 mile radius, about 50 miles, that circle begins. So let's kind of keep going down and see if we can figure this out.

But the people that are there, it means something when we can hear from them direct. I'm really grateful I can play these. So I also want for these witnesses, I think that it's important that, you know, the question is asked about, you know, is this, can you talk about this? Can you talk to me about this? Because I think it's important that people understand they were never asked to not talk about us. I just want to play this clip. Did anybody ever tell you before, during, or after that, that's classified, you can't talk about it? Nobody explicitly or implicitly said never talked about this incident right here.

Nobody ever had you sign a page 13 or an NDA saying this is our own black tech and we tested it on ourselves. Don't talk about this. The opposite. No one said anything about it. No one ever brought up the possibility, hey, that's an adversarial drone. But like it's pretty common, like, if something crazy happened and we think that an adversary has an upper hand, then I could see them saying that. But the point is, that's not what happened. So I think it's important that we recognize that I'm just talking to an individual in a way that

it's very, it's okay to do that. They were never asked not to talk about it. Is that correct? Yeah, well, I'm sure, you know, look, people are going to have questions, you know, how are they talking about this without, you know, without catching flack or what, you know, Because look, it's because you can talk about it. There's nothing that they, there's nothing classified about talking about something that you saw, you know, in this context. Yeah, you're here as an American citizen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right, right, right. Like, you know, both myself and yeah, sure, like, you know, these guys, yeah, they're, again, they, you know, because of, they happen to be there because they could pass their job. but you know not you know but no that they we can talk about it because there's there's nothing inappropriate that we're you know that we're that we're mentioning it's most people that that have gone on camera with me or are done interviews officially on record the reason i can't put it out is because they've asked me not to because they're still in their careers they you know high if they're in real high command they don't want it for that reason if they've just darned out in the

career they don't want it for that reason a lot of time so it's like you know i have to respect that, but at least I'm gathering the information. Well, it goes back to stigma, too. You know, again, it's not accepted everywhere in all circles that, you know, you can, you can talk about it. And again, if somebody really wanted to pick a bone with these guys, you know, I'm sure they could. And, but in terms of, you know, no, there's nothing that they're, they're, they're

aren't breaking any rules, you know, by talking about it. So I'm still unsatisfied that these are just four nations drones. So we're going to continue down this. This one's really interesting. This is a new witness also from Paul Hamilton. It gave us a number of quotes talking about drones at sea in general on that deployment. Let's talk about that. So on one of the videos that I released, our government said that this was evidence of a transmedium vehicle,

something going into the water, one of these objects that you were able to see from your ship that actually went into the water. Did you see that at all? I didn't see anything going on the water like that. and if that is actual clear footage from a vessel. At that point, it's different than what I saw whenever it goes into the water, but I will say that its movement is exactly why we made the first drone calls and when we were first being dismissed,

but we were so adamant that they were drones and how it sort of is flying and then suddenly stops like that in a way that even like a helicopter wouldn't, and it didn't seem like it was a very stable hover and up and down in that same way. it seemed like we'd have that for enough movement as well. And we did have conventional drones flown by adversary nations and non-adversarial nations as well in our vicinity throughout that deployment. That was why we were initially like these are not aircraft that we typically deal with or sea around here. And we had operated, I can't tell you, I probably spent four months total at sea in that specific area

in before and after and I didn't see anything to that effect flying with that pattern. And we didn't see it over the course of the deployment either anywhere. So he's looking at the video of the USS Omaha, from the USOMA thermal, seeing it go into the water. You know, his point was we saw adversarial and our own drone technology. This was not that. So what did you get from it and what do you? Yeah, that's a big deal. You know, just what you said.

And they've, you know, you've got all these different data points. Okay, I've seen that before. I know what that looks like. I've seen this before. I know what that looks like. What we saw in 2019 in the summer, that doesn't match, you know, these other encounters that we've had, known encounters that we've had of, oh, this is a drone from so-and-so. And, you know, or this is our drone.

And like you talked about, you know, you hear him talk about the movement, right? You know, even as a helo guy, I can tell you, you know, if we're flying along and I want to come to a stop, right? And I can hover. it takes time to execute that maneuver. And even if you try and yank and bank and come to as quick of a stop as you can, there's still drift,

there's still momentum on the airframe that drags you along and it's not an instantaneous stop. What he's talking about what they saw was stable hover, you know, falling a ship, what have you, and then come into a complete stop and maintaining a stable hover. I mean, nothing that we fly does that.

So that's important to keep in mind. So drone just means unmanned. I've never been one to hold. argue about that term that's a false argument when we first reported it it just meant it was unmanned you know it doesn't have like a you know a mouse in there you know it's it's unmanned what he said that's so important to me is that we see drones like that's something we deal with that's something our military deals with none of us are saying that's not like that is a real issue this is not that so we're trying to figure out what this is and now it gets kind of interesting because we're

talking about capabilities of these things this next piece um Oh, it's how they name them, drone classification, right? So I'm asking, how do you name them drones or whatnot? Let's hear what this individual has to say. Why do you think there's this predisposition to refer to them as drones or call them that? I mean, based on our understanding, the most reasonable explanation would be some sort of a drone or a UAV. And then you sort of go to the connotation that's attached with calling them what they actually are, which is an unidentified flying object, a UFO.

they are technically that, but that doesn't mean that they're extraterrestrial, like, that's the connotation that comes with using that phrase, even though that is the proper phrase for what we saw and what we classify. So he's talking about classifying these, you know, as drone, I have something to add to that, but what did you get from what he just said? Again, to me, you know, the subject of stigma is so unfortunately, you know, I think that's what he's talking about there. You know, if you call it a UFO, which is what it is, right?

It's an unidentified flying object. There's a lot of baggage with that. Hell, even UAP, you know. It makes you automatically think it's extraterrestrial or something. No one's saying that. No one's saying that. But there's some sort of stigma. Absolutely.

And again, to distinguish between, you know, like we talked about before, how a helo would have to kind of come to a slow stop. And even a drone, it's not completely instantaneous, you know, coming to a complete stop like they're talking about. So, no, it's just, they're calling it that because that's kind of the baseline, you know. You got to call it something, right? And so it's a baseline go-to to be able to say, well, just call it a drone, you know, and move on. In response to our reports, we've seen some other fairly lazy media reports that come out and say, well, look, here's the documents.

They call them UAVs, they're drones, you know. That's because you got to call them something. You got to call them something. Yeah. So it doesn't, just because they're calling it that does not mean that that. that's what they were. So I've spoken to one of the individuals whose job it was to create the designation that we're seeing here today, which is UAS, Unmanned Aerial System.

And I asked, I said, how do you feel about that designation that you made? And this individual said to me, that was my only choice, that we need to call them something and I was told by my command to find what is the current description of what we're calling an unmanned aerosystem. I said, are you significantly happy that that is a good determination for what you saw? Absolutely not. You know, so it's just, yeah, you got to call them something. It's a default. You got to call it something. Right. You can't write blank. You can't write, you know, UFO. You got to call it something. Right. Maybe maybe this little start calling them UAPs now. I don't know. But, you know, so I just wanted to go into why these terms become caught onto and propagate when maybe they

shouldn't. Okay. So now the next one that I want to go to is, you know, I'm very curious in this conversation about is this what you consider a conventional propulsion system, right? So let's see what they have to say. Can you tell me a little bit why this doesn't fit with a conventional drone? We were always trying to listen and we couldn't really hear anything, which is also different from what we've experienced with drones that are in close as these appeared to be, you would hear something a lot of times. Like you would hear rotors, whirling of blades, something like that, conventional propulsion.

Correct for like more of a conventional drone. A national drone would still have like a low hum of an aircraft flying, which you would hear. And you don't recall hearing that from these? No. What else in general just doesn't add up with the conventional drone idea? Just in general, we were a good amount off of land. and I'm not sure if I can disclose exactly how far away we were, but it was not a range that a conventional drone should ever be able to traverse, especially for the amount of time that we were

seeing these. Nothing we know of can stay out here for that long because the amount of time that we were seeing them was well beyond. I mean, if they flew out there, they would probably need to fly back. So I know that it wasn't a civilian. It absolutely wasn't civilian because there's nothing available or even that you could modify to do what we saw. So he's having problems with just like the drone classification because by the proximity to this individual and the people that he was with and they've had a lot of these experiences, as you've heard, they didn't have the typical sound that you would hear from any of these. And that's one aspect. And then he's talking about durational flight, right?

Yeah, it's a big deal. You know, even on the deck of a ship, you know, even you got the wind noise and the waves crashing against the hole and all this and that, you can still hear it from personal experience I can tell you you can still hear the worrying of blades or you know like he talked about the hum of a drone you can still hear that cut through the din of all the other noise that's one aspect that's important to keep in mind they didn't hear any of that okay and it's something that's not mentioned in that clip that I know guys that I've talked to have said I mean these things got so close to the deck of the ship or to the ship's super structure I could have

taking a softball and chucked it at it and hit it. So that's close. Okay. If something was that close, you would hear it, number one. Number two, just the distance, the sheer distance that these things were being observed out at sea, you know, again, hell, let's call it even 30 miles, you know. If a ship is out to sea at 30 miles, that means this thing at a minimum had to have flown 60 miles to get there and back to wherever it was coming from, right? Because like we talked about before, I think we've established pretty clearly, it was not coming from the Bass Strait. Yeah, we're about to establish more about. Perfect. But again, that noiseless and the distances that we were seeing them, or that they were seeing them, you know,

encountering them out at sea. So we have we have noiseless. We have instantaneous motion. We have the idea that they can somehow become transmedium. All of these things are adding up to like, I'm not. But they're not trackable too. They appear, they disappear. You didn't track them coming in. Low observatives to see where they went or where they came from. Right. Right. Okay, so I'm starting not to believe bad magazines like the New York Post, right? I'm starting to find that the case is not solved yet.

Let's continue. So the next one I want to play that I'm glad we have is. So this is cool. Another aspect that didn't kind of add up for me because everything takes power out there. Wow. I've started to hear this a bunch. This individual was a witness to what was a spotlight. So let's listen to what they have and can explain it to us a little bit, John. Tell me about the spotlight. I've got a lot of reports about this that were happening at that time. At one point, one of them

shined a spotlight on us and just generally knowing the strength of the spotlights, I don't think it could have reached more than, I don't even know, like a mile, which is very close for for something like that to be with the amount of illumination that we saw. It did seem like they were close. It must have been within that range. The spotlight. Do you remember what color it was? White.

Did the brightness or the strength of the spotlight surprise you at all? It did, yeah. And why is that? It was very bright and was completely unexpected. And this was maybe the third night that we had been seeing these aircraft, whatever they were and that was not something we had previously experienced. Was this an intermittent thing? Did it strobe? Was it steady about for how long? It was probably a two-second illumination. It was pretty bright because on the bridge of a ship,

we keep it completely dark so that we can see any light, anything possible at night. It went from pitch black to very illuminated very quickly. Interesting. Yeah, so that was a bit jarring. shocking i'm not sure if that it should have been longer if that if that's been reported elsewhere but that definitely happened at least once on my watch and uh was something we saw so some of these uh swarms they some of the these uh individual objects would just light up the ship like a ship like a spotlight and and that's something that we continue to hear what does that stand out to you well i so look at um sure convention

typical commercial off-the-shelf drones. I'm sure they've got the capability to have lights on them or whatever, okay? But you've got to think of it in the context of this, of this description. A spotlight that he says, you know, it's pitch black outside and all of a sudden, and when I, you know, in speaking to some of these guys myself, you know, you hear them talk about it, and it's like, I mean, dude, he goes, it's bright as day. He was surprised by how bright. surprise at how bright it was, okay? And then you talk about the duration, you know, because in at least two seconds, and now, you know,

again, who's someone who's maybe not familiar, they go, oh, well, sounds like a flash, right? Like the flash of a camera or something. Well, no, flash of a camera is, I mean, almost instantaneous, right? Shuddering on and off. You know, a two second illumination for that large light, illuminating that size of ship as bright as they said it was,

that's just so not typical of something that we would encounter regardless of drones in the area. I mean, for your ship to be illuminated like that, I don't know, a flare of some sort would have to be used, but even that's like, you know, typical flare. We keep hearing this. It's like people will hold their hands out in front of their face

and not be able to see their hands. It's so bright. So whatever this is has high power, and it's not being, it's brazen. Yeah, it's brazen, and the other thing is, you gotta remember, it takes energy to be able to produce be able to produce that strength of light, right? So now we're talking about, now we're talking about a drone that can fly tens of miles out to sea on its own, stay on duration for hours at a time, it's noiseless, okay? It's performing maneuvers that are just, you know, almost unbelievable.

And now it's got a spotlight, so it's got even more energy now to be able to produce a spotlight for you know for for two three seconds to illuminate an entire Navy worship like that it just it it's certainly not adding up to what people would would think it would be incredibly disconcerting that these are unknown craft small yeah maneuverable you come in and out of the water and then it it's messing with you it lights up the whole bridge of the ship right that's scary but you've heard other incidents like this oh no yeah and you know there it's not it's not It's not the first time that an object has illuminated a Navy. And in fact, yeah, another deployment somewhere in the world.

This time on a much bigger ship, an LHD, which for someone who doesn't know, it's kind of like a, when you look at it looks like an aircraft carrier, but it's not as big. But it's kind of a mini aircraft carrier. Big, big ship though, okay? And no, some, you know, sailors that I've spoken to personally, they talk about being out on deployment. middle of the night, they're standing bridge watch. And all of a sudden, you know, on the horizon, they see a light kind of flicker on and all of a sudden start tracking towards a ship. And then as soon as they lose sight of the object over the ship, presumably directly

ahead of the ship, all of a sudden it casts this light that, again, as like Jeremy mentioned, is so bright and so blinding that they're disoriented within the bridge of the ship. Because again, it's at night, it's pitch black outside. We keep the, we keep the ship bridge dark at night on purpose to preserve your night vision, right? And then a huge spotlight that just illuminates everything as if it were daytime. And this particular case, it wasn't two seconds. It was enough time for the sailor to, you know, they talk about being so disoriented that they're kind of putting their hands up. That's what she talks about. She goes, my hands were in front of my face and I couldn't see, it was so bright, I couldn't see my own hands in front

of my own face. And they talk about being so disoriented, they're kind of like getting their bearings and putting their hands up on the consoles to kind of brace themselves, you know, um, uh, in the bridge of the ship. And then boom, it's, it shuts off like that, you know. So and the object. See that the other thing, this individual, the object came in and she was so great about it. She's like, it, it left at a different speed in which it came in. Because what happened with it came, Harvard shot the light and then zoom gone, you know, it's just interesting. Again, it just speaks to the unconventional nature of, you know, it's just speaks to the unconventional nature of, of this encounter and others that we've had.

Hopefully I'll get one of those next Christmas, Jeremy. I can get one of those drones. These are super-duper drones. It's so hilarious that people keep trying to dismiss it that way. And remember, you said small a second ago, remember, we know the size. I mean, these were significant, but physical objects. I'd say 10 to 14 is the best estimate from each person with the data.

It might have been, we might even know a little bit more about the Russell soon. So no matter what the shape or what these vehicles were, they were substantial, but we really got into, we really got to get into right now. What people are saying is that this ship called the Bastrate launched, you know, these objects, these units, okay? And that's been now propagated, and it is 100% false. And I want to hear from somebody who has direct knowledge of this. And that's why this is the next little bit of audio. One of the duties of this person was to monitor the Bastrate in real time.

And let's see what this person has to say. I want to talk about origin. There's been a lot of talk that these objects, if not launched from land, that they were launched from a merchant vessel. So the Bass Strait is a lot of people are trying to pin this on the Bass Strait. Can you tell me a little bit about that about origin? and what you know about the Bass Strait? This was the closest that we ever came to on our ship figuring a possible origin outside of coming from land somehow, like you said, traversing those 30 to 50 miles that we were

from the nearest islands. So at one point, we did see what looked like multiple air contacts around a merchant ship that was operating in our vicinity of our strike group. And it was a foreign flag merchant ship. And we reached out to them. They denied they weren't a vessel of interest that we had been worried about or anything. But I think it was like five to ten of the aircraft circling around it. And we never saw it actually land on this vessel.

Was it your impression that the contacts did not belong to the merchant vessel? and can you verify that you asked the merchant vessel and they denied that they were theirs? Yeah, I could verify the latter for sure and that was also why I sort of skirted around saying many details about that merchant vessel because I wasn't, I'm not sure where the investigation went afterwards,

sort of helped compose the message that we sent off because I'd seen it and like I said, we didn't see them land on it. And that was what we really wanted to see. Like we really wanted to see either a launch or a landing. We didn't know if possibly this, Russell had a foreign nation's intelligence detachment on board or something like that doing this. They did deny they were the source and they also never landed or launched them.

Right. Really wanted to see that because we just wanted an answer because we were tired of it. It was not launching, was not receiving the drones as much as we wanted it to. Like we were like, this is the source. This has to be it. We finally figured it out. And it seemed like it probably wasn't just based on the fact that we never saw them land or take off. Why is this important? You know, and again, this kind of goes back to the, you know,

the warfighter in all of us, you know, like you've talked about before, you know, you've, you've spoken to folks who, you know, they're not happy with how this unfolded, you know. We're out there, we're trying to do our job, and yet we're getting peppered, you know, almost like we're in the boxing room getting jab, getting jab, getting jab, we can't, we can't punch back. And so finally, like you hear, and it's, you know, I can commiserate with that feeling of almost not helplessness, but just frustration that you've got a job to do. You know, we're all trained warfighters to, you know, defend the country, but each other in our ship, right? And we're getting harassed by these damn things. And finally we see,

okay, aha, there's the culprit right there, you know, and we're going to, you know, we're going to query the hell out of them and tell them to knock it off or whatever the case is, right? And what do you hear the, you know, what do you hear that guy say? He goes, so we finally see them there, and we wanted it so bad for it to be the, the source of our, of our frustrations for these past few nights, and not once did they see anything either land or take off from, you know, from this merchant vessel. So it just speaks to the, you know, I can, I kind of, I feel bad a little bit, you know, because I can hear and I can feel, I can commiserate with the frustration expressed. He wanted an answer. You know,

You know, he wanted to answer, and it's almost like, you know, you're harassed by these things for so many nights in a row, and finally you think you've got that answer, and then the carpet's pulled from underneath you, you know, and it's not. So the big thing for me is that people can just make up any shit they want and they can publish it, and it starts to be trickled down as truth through tabloids all the way to Wikipedia, and it's bullshit, and it's direct bullshit. And knowing that is one thing. You and I will know certain things, but getting somebody who's there whose job it was to watch

the Bass Strait and make sure it was not the source of these. Now we finally have that person on record verified that was his duty and he sadly can't report to us that this was some sort of adversarial drone being launched off this ship, which of course it wasn't with over 100 and 100 mile radius, right, that never made sense. This excuse, the case closed, never made sense. But to get it through, you have to hear from people directly there. We also know that there was further investigation, that the Bastrate was in port when this was still going on, that it was not responsible for launching what was buzzing around these ships.

So you and I have already reported on that numerous times, and now let's just give it one more go, which is that we have direct information and knowledge of who and how the Bastrate was investigated after the day of events, and they were determined not to be the place of origin, landing, or launch of these 100 plus units in the 100 mile radius. So guess what? Case open. And now we have to kind of think a little bit further. But just to kind of show that this individual can talk to us about it. I just want to play one last little quote. Did anybody ever say to you, don't talk about this? This is a black project. We're testing our own technology. We don't want people to know about it. Don't talk about it. No, I've never been spoken to really about the event until now.

No one ever had you signed an NDA or a page 13. No one ever gave you a verbal order direct or indirect or otherwise that you can't talk about it. Is that correct? Correct. So just to why are we doing that? It's just to make sure everybody understands. This is not like some off the record kind of like, you know, he can talk to me. This is absolutely fine.

But it's so much clarity. I'm really grateful that some people are like. letting us share this with the public and whatnot. So George and Guts, is this case closed? Have we figured this out? No, in my opinion, absolutely not. Right. No, we don't know all the central questions.

Whose they were? Who was operating them? Where they came from, where they went to, what their total capabilities are. These are not any kind of drones or AABs or UASs that we are aware of, that our militaries aware of. So all the big questions about them are still unambilings. answer. There, it is not a case closed. It is not a case explained. It's an ongoing mystery.

So the great UFO swarms of 2019 still need to be investigated. We do not have, no answers have really, you've been given in a way. Now, the thing that really takes and elevates it for me is the performance. When you talk with the people that were there, you know, regardless of shape, we'll get down to the nitty-gritty of that maybe when there's more information that comes out. Although, So the idea of it is that these had performance capability that I hope, I wish that we had as a country, but this is not a performance capability that anybody has ever seen before. And this is what really makes it interesting to me, a mystery. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsor jobs.

It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this shell will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. 2019 was a big year for a variety of reasons. We haven't even talked about what started us down this road is that on the East Coast. So Oceana, this gigantic naval air station, I report. reported in 2018, I'd been hearing from naval aviators and sources that they were flying out of

Oceania into the W72, which is the training area in the ocean, and every single day they were seeing these unknowns. And it was a legitimate security issue, aviation safety issue, because they're flying along and there they are. And the Navy, the UAP task force, what became the UAP task force, is trying to encourage these aviators to go ahead and report it. And I know when I said it in 2018, I don't think anybody believe me that they're seeing them every day, but it was true. And it came out later. Right. It sounded like too much, but then you turned out to be correctly reporting.

Yeah. So in 2019, at the urging of some Navy officials who were working on the UFO investigation, UAP investigation, some aviators finally went along with the program and took some pictures. They had a cell phone and he took some pictures. And in one flight, this one crew captured images of three different objects. And they don't look like the Starship Enterprise. They're odd-looking. One of them, the Navy called it the acorn.

Other people, after I put the image out, they tried to call it a Batman balloon. It was not a balloon. It was not a balloon. They called it the acorn. Then there was one that just looked like a sphere. And then the third one that was labeled metallic blimp with payload.

And again, they didn't have amazing characteristics like the ones on the West Coast, but they would sit there for days at a time. time right off the coast obviously doing some kind of surveillance of the of the training exercises and the base itself and it was disconcerting to the navy that they were sit there they could sit there for days at a time at 30,000 feet and 120 not winds and not move that's what something that lieutenant Ryan graves has brought up and other people that actually have dealt with this issue is the durational capability is astonishing look this is somebody's technology and we're i'm certainly

not pretending to know i don't know if these you're UFOs are from another world, another planet, extraterrestrial. I've never said that. I don't know. I got these images, by the way, at a briefing two months later. And I sat on it because I didn't think I was authorized to do it. And then people started talking about it in public, the Batman balloon. And I figured, well, I went back to the sources and see if I could make it public and did.

And, you know, that was sort of our first foray into what became a heck of a year of reporting, because that led then to the, the, West Coast videos and images that we got. And at the same time, East Coast, West Coast, far, far away at the same general time frame in that same year, there was another incident that you guys know pretty well. Yeah, let's talk about it. Right before we hit that, I just want to say now so that people are aware that this will be coming out with us, that there were other swarm events of UAPs, whatever you want to call them, UFOs that happen also on the East Coast and also around the world, other seas.

This is something that I have to acknowledge of, and we're going to break that story. We just want people to grasp this 2019, hey, don't just believe these tabloid stuff. Get in there a little bit. Here's more information. There's a lot more to this story and this type of event series. But I like where you're going with this kind of thing. This is a really disturbing incident that we got a hold before anybody knew about it. And it was reported and it just dropped and ignored.

It's in Guam. That is true. And I found out that my buddy over here was there. So I think that you're probably the best person to speak about what we're talking about. Yeah. So you had to reach out to me about an incident that you'd become aware of. And yeah, so in... Do you see how he's already...

He doesn't proactively tell me, hey man, I heard about UFOs. It's like I have to find out through stories. And then I've been like, say, hey man, can you tell me, did anything like this happen? Yeah, so in terms of stuff that, you know, I've seen, people like to ask me all the time, you see anything. Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. You saw anything. Yeah, and, you know, let me start out by saying this.

You know, yeah, sure. There have been things that I've seen flying, certainly at night, you know, on NVDs, on night vision goggles. That, you know, lights that you see that you, you know, kind of weird and unexplainable. But nothing that I would consider the mothership, you know, nothing. Certainly nothing like we've heard. Just things you can't explain. Yeah, just things you can't explain. They're definitely make you scratch your head,

but then you've got a mission to do and you go on and do the mission. You kind of, unfortunately, you don't have a whole lot of time to invest. Again, we're not UFO hunters, you know? As much as... You're not. Maybe I'm, you know.

Come on, man. As much as we might want to be. No. So, no, in this particular case, so we're out there, I'm out there in Guam. There's a Navy squadron station out there on an Air Force base. And we've become aware of an incident that, or incidents, I should say, that it occurred over a span of a few nights, over a particularly sensitive area on Guam.

Why is it sensitive? Well, so out of Guam, they've got a, and this is public knowledge, I'm not disclosing anything here. But there's a what's called a thad missile battery out there, a thad. So I think it's terminal high altitude air defense system, I think is what it is. I think the Air Force and the Army, it's an Army Air Force jointly run. What is it for anti-missile technology? Yeah, exactly. So it's, you know, defense capabilities, right?

And I think that's all I'm comfortable to say beyond that. But nonetheless, it's a defense system that we have, I don't know, Guam in and of itself has been a strategic military location going back to World War II. So there is a, so there's a THAAD missile battery out there, yeah, missile defense site out there. Well, in early 2019, our squadron was approached by the Air Force because what had been told to us was that there had been these, I guess you call them incursions, right, of lights over the Thad site. And what really kind of struck us, all of us in the squadron, you know, because we, you know, we hear about this thing, lights and everybody's right away starts talking, what the hell, you know,

what do they want us to do here? What are they talking about? Well, what was interesting we would talk about in the wardrobe was, again, the witness descriptions of these particular lights, okay? And what they were seeing was the guys that are standing guard duty out there were seeing first what started as a light that just all of a sudden appears on the horizon, okay? They described it as coming in at treetop level and all of a sudden it starts approaching their position, okay?

Again, coming from overwater, because again, on Guam's an island, right, surrounded by water, So really any direction that's coming from is coming from over water. But in the particular direction that it was coming from, yeah, it's coming from over water. Tree top level, and it's approaching their position. And just as they're starting to get on the radio to kind of start communicating with one another about, hey, do you see this light and where is it going? We need to figure this out. It blinks out.

Well, it blinks out, and then about two, three seconds later, it all of a sudden pops up over here. You know, 90 degrees offset from the original direction. So if you can imagine the light seeing it at your 12 o'clock position. it blinks out and then a few seconds later it pops up at your nine o'clock position is it the same light is it a different light how did it move from here to there so quickly um this is troubling because this is an area well this is a very sensitive this is a restricted area restricted airspace even even us as the helicopter squad and stationed on guam there's a there's what's known as a tfr temporary flight restriction well it's not temporary it's

always out there it's an uh constantly active tfr where uh you are not allowed to fly within a certain radius of this area, mainly for the emissions that are getting radiated out of this site. It can mess with your electronics. It can mess with at least certainly our systems in the helicopter. So like if somebody had set up like a commercial drone, a deuce your business, just the energy output of this area would mess with those likely? Presumably. I mean, that was a reason why we were never allowed to fly in and out of there.

And also, you know, you can never determine when a missile would be shot off. And so God forbid you want to be in the fire zone of this thing in case you're flying through. So we always had to skirt around this thing and fly around it. We always knew where it was and you always made sure to stay outside of this. There's something being flown in this restricted airspace. Yeah, it's a big deal. And it's weird because you'll see a light and then immediately at a 90 degree. Well, so what ended up happening over a couple nights in early 2019 was these guys were essentially involved in a cat and mouse chase with these lights.

and the guys on the ground over the thad site. Well, it got to, and it's funny, you know, similar to 2019, they're getting harassed by this thing. They can't figure out where it's coming from. They can't figure out where it's going. So they enlisted our help in trying to, in trying to figure out what these things were. The Air Force didn't have any rotary wing assets out there to be able to,

they didn't have any helicopters out there to be able to chase these things, but they knew we were out there. And so they said, hey, maybe, you know, can you guys help us out here? we want you guys to, what we ended up doing was after three, four nights of harassment, they finally got fed up and said, you know, we need you guys to help us out. What they asked to do was stand up what's called an alert, right? So we're at the end of our flight day, whatever it happens to be, we had a crew specifically designated every night to stand this alert where if we got a call,

they would want us to launch and try and find these things, right? And just essentially observe and report. Really, their desire would be to eventually knock it down if we could, but we didn't have any sort of that sort of technology on the helicopter at the time. And so that's really what it was. It was stand up and alert. If we get the call, go, see what you can find out. And sure enough, there were a couple times that we were given the call.

And in fact, there was one night where me and my crew and the other helicopter that we were flying with, we were doing training out in the southern end of the island. And it's the end of a long night. It's about 22, 2300, about 10 and 11 o'clock at night. We're heading back to the base on the north end of the island, which is next to the fad site where these incursions had been happening. And it just so happened that we were out there at the same time that they got one of these calls. They go, hey, they're back, and the lights are back. Okay?

What do we want us to do? Well, just, you know, they're kind of, they're over here. We want you to go check it out. But again, all the while maintaining outside, you know, we're staying clear of that radius, of that TFR that's always out there. And I wish I had, you know, more of a dramatic account to talk about. But long story short, we go up there to try and find these things, and we couldn't see them. The guys in the ground insisted that, hey, they're right over here.

Okay, now they're over here. And again, this cat and mouse game going back and forth. Well, we never saw anything. We never saw anything with our eyeballs. We never saw anything on our night vision goggles. We never saw anything on our flea that we have on the helicopter, Ford looking infrared. We never saw anything.

So you put around... You should have been able to see these objects? On some sensor system. On some thing, if you were to... Again, the guys on the ground were so emphatic that they were seeing these things. You would think that we should have been able to see something. But we never could. That flight was not the only flight where we launched on these things.

There were other crews, other nights that got launched. And again, it was always in the middle of the night. The earliest that ever happened was maybe 11, 10, 11 o'clock at night. But typically it was around, you know, 1, 2, 3 in the morning. So, yeah, no, we had other crews get called up and get the call to launch. They would fly out there, chase this thing around or try to anyway. But we never saw anything. You know, around the world, as I've reported, there have been instances. of UFOs that have been over missile sites, including nuclear missile sites, American, Russian, and they've interfered with the launch control systems. There have been dramatic incidents, whereas direct interference. Is there anything like that that happened with this THAAD system,

or could you even say? Not that I'm aware, but even if I was aware, I don't think I would be comfortable talking about that. But not that I'm aware, no. But the fact that whatever this unknown surveillance system, if that's what it was, was to taking such an interest in that facility. Yeah, it was critical. Yeah, because there's, you know, if you look at Guam, there's multiple bases throughout the island, right? There's you got an Air Force base to the north end

where we flew out of, there's a Navy base to the south. In fact, there's even a submarine base on the southern end of the island that subs go in and out of. So there's multiple, I mean, there's other high sensitive units and platforms. But it was all there. But it was always all there. You know, again, just to characterize it,

Guam is such a critical national security facility, It's like the frontier. It's like Fort Apache. You're the first line of defense if bad actors from that region of the world fire something this way. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think we're dealing with a lot of different truths, right? There are incursions of even just, you know, drones were tape on, you put on some weaponry and you fly it into a base. That happens all the time. You know, I have individuals I know their job is to defend certain bases from that when they're overseas.

a buddy of mine at 23 miles away was able to target in using an aerostat with a thermal camera. It's basically a floating platform, weapons platform, and at 23 miles away was able to disable a drone instantaneously. There's apparently no issue that we have. There's return to sender, which sends the bomb back. So we are dealing with that. That is something we will increasingly deal with when it comes to our technologies. However, we have to really say that the third. things we've been talking about, they don't fall within those explanations. In fact, they kind of mimic

what has been going on with the UFO phenomenon, you know, since the beginning of our military. This is not a new thing. Pyramids, spears, cubes and cigars are the common shapes of UFOs. And these have been seen by our military throughout the entire time. And that's just something you and I know through all the information that we've had. So I just, I think that we have to be very careful to dismiss things because these new techs are coming up and it's so easy to call something that's you know it has a certain type of maneuverability as a commonplace thing so I'm really grateful that we were able to kind of in my eyes unsolved the case it was bothering me there maybe yeah let me ask one this is like called this uh weapons porn but I had a question about you know me as a civilian

I'm thinking they're flying over our ships over our bases shoot those damn things down And I was thinking about this Navy weapon system. I've seen video on YouTube. It's almost like a super Gatlin gun that is an anti-aircraft system. I don't know what it's called, but it shoots like a energy beam weapon. Well, I was thinking of the guns that shoot like a thousand bullets in a minute that would just basically knock down a missile. Okay. It could certainly be used.

Yeah, I think of CWIS is a posting weapon system. So it basically looks like an R2D2 type thing on that. Yeah. So that could clearly take one of these things down, shouldn't it? Yeah, again, look, I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not a CWIS expert, you know, not a service warfare officer. I'm sure we could easily find someone to talk on that. But presumably, yeah, I mean, in theory, yeah, you got something that's flying around your airspace that you wanted to. There are ways to take those things down.

I'm just thinking at some level, there are investigations in this UAP mystery we know. And some of them are sincere and people there who want to get to the bottom of it. And some that just sort of want to cover it over and wallpaper it and make it go away, I think. But you've got to think that there's people at the Navy and maybe the Air Force that are sitting around thinking, these damn things keep flying over our bases. We sure would like to shoot one of those down and see what the hell it is. Yeah. Don't you think?

My opinion, yeah, it's frustrating. You know, it's fresh. And again, with that warfighter mentality, you know, when you want to be able to punch back. You know, if you're getting just peppered in the ring and not, you know, not able to throw a counterpunch, you know, it's frustrating. And then you've got to worry, well, do we set off an international incident or more importantly, an interplanetary incident? We shut down Mepzor from Krypton or something like that. I wanted just to also, you know, thank you for talking with us. And I just want to kind of hit the nail on the head here, which is it.

I mean, look, you're my friend. And I like calling you and telling you some of the stuff that I'm learning and passing it by you. And it's exciting. I appreciate that part of our friendship. Sure. I do, you know, have concern there. I mean, you know, I did for you, like you're an active commander in the Navy and there's stigma associated with talking about this. And I know we're just talking right now, you know, everything we're saying is personal opinion right between us.

But do you have any kind of concern that that stigma would affect you or that there'd be any reprisals because you're talking about this with us? I mean, it's a hot topic right now within our department of defense is UFOs, UAPs. Just as an individual, you're talking about this, but do you have any concern or? No. No, you're talking like blowback or something like that. No, no, no, no, look, not at all, man. Yeah. No, well, look, it's not that, look, it's like this.

The stigma's real. I think conversations like this help to fight and reduce that stigma, which hopefully would encourage folks if they do have some sort of, you know, weird encounter would report it, right, and bring it up to somebody who can try to figure. Go through the proper chain of command. Yeah. Right, right. I want people to. No, but, but no, look, I'm not afraid that. Look, I was, look, part of my, part of my training as a helicopter pilot was also that as an aviation safety officer.

Yeah. So, and that's a very, you know, for those that, for those of us that have been through that course, there's a lot of courses in the military that they send you through, you know, some more robust than others, some more menial than others. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of real dry topics out there. But this one in particular, the aviation safety officer course, for me anyway, it really changed. We're always safety conscious, you know, we always try and do things as safe as possible. But man, going through that course really kind of drives home the point of aviation safety, looking out for your brother and sisters in the air, mitigating risks as much as you can, and making sure that at the end of the day, you know, you go out over the horizon,

you come back with everyone that you left with, you know. And so that course in particular really, really drove home the point of, hey, when there's an issue, when there's an aviation safety concern that puts your fellow brother and sisters in harm's way, you've got to deal with it. And to me, I see this UAP issue in general in the same light. There is an aviation safety flight concern. It should be addressed. We shouldn't be afraid to talk about it just because it's a little weird or it's a

unknown or we don't know what the hell it is or it's a national security it's a national security issue we shouldn't we shouldn't let that because of because of its inherent weird nature we shouldn't bar that from trying to figure out what this is again if for nothing else for the safety of of those that that we send up uh you know people who put their lives in line every day to go up and and and defend the country so no in terms of blowback no look at i'm doing you know uh i'm not doing on this on behalf of the Navy by any means, but in general, this is what they train me to do. We're getting close to the end here. I just give props to the U.S. Navy for being so forthright on this, for leading the charge. I mean, you know, you and your colleagues talking about it, I know a career

Navy guy who was part of Ossap and ATIP and the UAP Task Force. He has led the charge toward changing Navy policy to encourage aviators to come forward. So glad. that somebody is doing it because, you know, as we've remarked, some of the other services are not so, are a little more reluctant to get involved. I'm proud, you know, I'm proud of the service I'm in. I'm proud of the career I've had. I mean, I'm not done.

I'm proud I get to do the work I get to do. And I'm glad that the Navy is, you know, you know, seems like they're taking steps to address these issues. Well, I'm glad that you're, you know, willing to have the conversation. We made the joke back and forth. It's like, if we were both into chess

and we just wanted to talk about that, that's no problem. But for some reason, this idea of like, UFOs have been with us forever, this idea of unknowns. Why can't we just talk about it like we would any other subject? So that's what we're doing. We're doing what we're hoping other people will do. I do got to say, though, that, you know, it's great. So the Navy has really spearheaded coming forward.

And we see so much progress. We see this whistleblower legislation that has just, you know, created this opportunity for people to come forward about the UFO topic who work inside. and that kind of thing. So you see all this progress being made, but I was so disappointed with when they did the hearings. Just to be clear, we presented, you know, nine pieces of corroborative evidence. They took that hearing and they just showed one piece and tried to pretend that that was the totality of the 2019 events that was so disingenuous to Congress. Those who'd like it to go away. They'd like, they'd like the media attention to stop. They'd like conversations like this to end.

The closer we get to the goodies, the more pushback there's going to be. Yeah. Media and other places. Yeah. Well, thanks so much, man. It was good to hang out. I'm glad we finally got to have this conversation all together. Hopefully it sheds a little bit of light on all this information that we were able to take.

And I suspect there's going to be more coming from us. I think so too. Oh, yeah. All right, thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you. Following this new weaponized, the presentation of Jeremy Corbelle, George Knapp, Dark Course Entertainment and Cadence 13 Studios available now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows