Wednesdays - 4: Your Body is NOT Your Worth Ft. Steph Claire Smith & Laura Henshaw

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Trigger Warning: This episode discusses eating disorders and diet culture. Hello lovelies! This week we are welcoming the fabulous duo Steph Claire Smith and Laura Henshaw, best friends and co-founders of the leading holistic health and wellness app, Kic. Steph and Laura chat to Sophie and Melissa about the modelling industry, developing good relationships with food and unhealthy beauty standards. Plus, Steph & Laura answer some of your dilemmas! From changing bodies during pregnancy to calorie counting and gym motivation when you are struggling with mental health. -Redeem a one-month free subscription to Kic, live until the end of the year! Sign up via the Kic website: https://kicapp.com/uk/, select the monthly subscription and enter your promocode to redeem a free month of Kic. You can then download the app via the App Store or Google Play and log in.URL: https://app.kicapp.com/signup?plan=monthly&coupon=WEDNESDAYSPromocode: WEDNESDAYSInstagram / TikTok / YouTube: @wednesdayspodcastEmail: [e-mail]-Credits:Podcast Producer & Editor: @kat.milsomAdditional Producer: @jemimarathboneVideographer: @jamierg99Social Media: @thechampagencyAssistant Producer: @maiaadelia.docs Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Melissa, are you a doctor? I want to be, but I'm not. I'm not a doctor either. And we're not psychologists. We're not. We're not i'm not a doctor either and we're not psychologists and we're not experts in anything in fact we just chatted all the shit so and we love giving you guys advice but as we love giving you guys advice do not take what we're saying as gospel if you do feel like you need to speak to somebody please seek professional help we're very excited we're thrilled we're like two school girls we're very excited fan fan

fangirling right now fangirling we've got the incredible Steph Glessmith and Laura Henshaw now we've followed these girls for so long I think Steph was the original they were the original I don't know why they want us calling them influencers because I know they were the original like people that I would have like followed and seen on Instagram they were yes they were big models you know definitely my first follows were them and it's been amazing to watch sort of their journey go from being you know models and going through a bad relationship kind of with food food and like fitness and body image and stuff and now they've come out the other side and created this beautiful app called kick and they also have a podcast called kick pod they've got 700 recipes on their app that are all like super healthy super easy super like family friendly and just i think making sure

that we all have like a good relationship with like food and exercise and just being happy and healthy basically yeah it was fascinating talking to them they're such great girls and they also gave you guys a really cool offer. You can get a month free if you sign up for their app with the code Wednesdays. We also want to just put a quick disclaimer out there just because we obviously discussed a little bit about eating disorders. They are very transparent and very real. So trigger warning. Hope you guys enjoy and we love you.

Hey, guys. Hey, guys. hey guys hey guys we're back and we are very very very excited we have some special guests we have some special guests and okay we're just gonna i'm just gonna have to disclaimer you were the first person i ever followed on instagram yeah one of the first like influences or followed on Instagram. Me too. One of the first influencers. You were a model at this point. Oh my god. How long ago? We were so young. Like the day I got Instagram. Oh my god. Wow.

And then I sent it to the team and everyone was like, yeah, me too. Thanks guys. So we were very excited to have you both on. And we're both very, we like to think of ourselves as wellness gurus. I'm maybe a bit extreme. Yeah, she's like, carries around like a pill. You know, it's like your popping pills.

My vitamin drink. And I'm also like, I'm just anal about anything being processed. Everything's organic. All that vibe. You know? Yeah, I'm like dipping in that. But anyway, we're very, I'm so interested. You've obviously got your incredible company. You've got your podcast. processed everything's organic all that vibe you know yeah i'm like dipping in that but anyway like we're very i'm so interested you've obviously got your incredible company you've got your podcast

kick we want to hear all about it but also just we need to introduce you as well like they're listening like oh sorry i'm a bit rusty i've been out of the game for a month we have steph claire smith and laura Henshaw what's the name of your guys' podcast Kick Pod which we've just been chatting off you have to come

to Australia everyone loves you wait what yes I thought you were just saying come to Australia because it's great

no because we are yeah when we told our team particularly that we were coming on your podcast everyone was very excited for us

that is crazy I do feel like we share a lot. I feel like Australians and Brits, they share a lot of like humour and like we're quite similar. I agree. Even considering we're so far away from each other, but we share a lot of like the same humour and banter. Do you know what I mean?

We get each other. We felt very welcomed here. It's been so good. Everyone knew, you know what blows my mind about the UK? When you get on the tube in the morning and it's commute time, it's dead, dead silent. Dead silent.

No one speaks at all. And then you have one people that are having like a chat and everyone's like looking at them because it's like, you know the whole conversation. That was you on the packed tube the other night.

Remember? We were like peak hour. What was I doing? You were talking to that guy. I shouldn't be shocked but I'm so shocked. It's very nice to know that people have conversations yeah so it often crosses my mind that it's so strange that we all act like we don't we're not the same species i know it's

bizarre it's like everyone's like and then someone says something and everyone looks you like what are you doing like if i catch eye contact i don't even sometimes crack a smile i'm like no no me too you just look down at the floor always and if you do crack a smile sometimes like you're a weirdo it's true so I'm glad you broke broke the seal when we're nattering around the tube I do feel like you're looking at us but what have you guys been doing in England well we've come over we've got community here um both who use the app and then just have been following our journeys for quite a long time but we haven't ever been able to come and activate with them and do any meetups or workouts.

So our main priority was coming to see them and just to talk to them, get as much feedback as we can. We would love to, you know, reach more people over here. So just trying to meet as many people as possible, understand any synergies in the markets or differences know reach more people over here so just trying to meet as many people as possible um understand any synergies in the markets or differences but also just yeah get the get the brand and story real because it's like we know people like oh we know we know you in the uk we do kick in the uk and i'm like but do you like are you actually real so tell us a little bit about cake how did

your like wellness or fitness journey start essentially Like how did you get into all that stuff? Well, I mean, we started in a really good place, I think, with wellness, but we wouldn't have used that word to describe it, you know, growing up. We just never felt the pressure of diets. You know, both our mums never spoke about diets or even insecurities in front of us. So I think we were really lucky to have that really beautiful relationship through out of high school at least. But it was was kind of coming out of that jumping on social media,

starting the modeling industry as well, added to it that we started to feel the pressure and to look a different way. And that's when it switched for both of us. When we started to look at exercise is pretty much the only reason we do it is to look a certain way. So what can we, what type of exercise should we do to look this way or to lose weight or to get smaller? And then food was pretty much the same, like completely look at food differently, whether it was looking at it like numbers or just restricting certain food groups that we were told were really bad for you and were demonized. So would this be like your model agencies or whatever?

Or like you'd see a video and it would be like cut out carbs or something yeah i mean it's everywhere especially with social media especially like the fitness and wellness space on social media and back then when we were kind of both at our worst um 2014 it was just like fitness stuff was like boiled chicken broiled broccoli count your calories um very kind of restrictive and then the wellness side of things was like, you know, you have to go to a superfood store. You can't buy anything from the supermarket. You might spend like $200 on, you know, pounds. What's a superfood store?

Like a Whole Foods. Like a Whole Foods, you know. Everything has to be organic. Nothing can be from a packet. You know, you might make a beetroot brownie because you've been told it tastes amazing and it's really good for you, but then it tastes like beetroot. Or a sweet potato.

My God, I'd rather just not eat it. Yeah, exactly. And it was also like the kind of Kate Moss era. Like I remember this quote and so it was my backdrop. It's so sad. Like Trigger warning. It was like nothing feels as good as skinny. Nothing tastes better than skinny. Like it was so. I'veigger 1, it was like nothing feels as good as skinny. Nothing tastes better than skinny.

Oh, my God, I've never heard of that. Will I swear on here? Yeah, yeah. It was fucked. It was so bad. And I remember I was in Milan at the time modeling over there and I'm a super disciplined person, like type A personality, which for me didn't go that well together with controlling my food

and exercise because I was like, okay can control because of the modeling industry you can't control if you're booked yeah but you can control your body well kind of in some ways and I remember I had this goal weight and I was like I was I got to Milan I got to my like model apartment I filled my I went and bought all this juice stuff for a juice cleanse and like did it for like a week myself and I walked for two kilometers with this trolley of vegetables because I didn't know what else to do because I got there. And they were like, well, you're not small enough. They said, you must be. I remember they measured me and they said, you must be a bit like inflamed from the plane.

And I was like, I knew. I'm like, this is the skinniest I have ever been in my life. I was like, oh, yeah, must be the plane. And then I went, I was like, what can I do? Anyway, so I had this goal weight. And I remember I was everything. I was like, oh, yeah, must be the plane. And then I went, I was like, what can I do? Anyway, so I had this goal weight and I remember I was everything. I was obsessed with it. I wouldn't eat anything except my juices and I was so isolated from friends because I couldn't go out and eat normally

because I had to count every calorie. Excessively exercise. It's all consuming. Exactly. And I remember I got to this goal weight and I stood on the scales and I got to this number that I thought if I got there, I would be perfect. I would be perfect, like I would be so fulfilled, I would find happiness, everything would be answered

because that's what we kind of think when our weight is like so attributed to our work. And I saw the number and I looked at myself in the mirror and it's so sad to talk about because I was so skinny and all I did was said like, you still look shit. Like your body is not good enough. Like now I want to change this or now I want more of a thigh gap or like whatever. Yeah, you're always chasing the next it's crazy you you are and so

then for us like we came back to Australia and we really connected through Seff had gone through a similar experience in New York and then we knew that like you know when you lead a healthy lifestyle like as you guys would know like you feel so good when you move your body and like your mind is clear and you feel confident and when you eat well you have energy and you feel so good when you move your body and like your mind is clear and you feel confident and when you eat well you have energy and you feel focused. But when we started Kik, when we came together, there was nothing out there that was like a safe place to provide all of those things but not in a way that meant like, you know,

you had to enter your before and after photo or like measure your arm circumference or like weigh yourself. And so that's where we kind of rebuilt the relationship and then it's kind of it's special that Kik was born out of it yeah it's amazing because you guys have been through it firsthand you've done it and you it's so true because there's that element where it's like but you want to care about what you're putting in your body because it does make you feel good and process stuff does make you feel bad but there is that element to everything like what is the

reason I'm doing this is it to actually make myself feel good or there is that element to everything like what is the reason I'm doing this is it to actually make myself feel good or is it because it's going to be low calories or it's going to make my skin you know like it's there's just there's a double and it's just double yeah it's a catch yeah it's about finding a why that's probably that's going to be more sustainable when your why is like purely just for how it's going to make you look, it's not going to last. Well, yeah, the more sustainable one is actually what you said, is health, you know, and like wanting to have energy or like live longer or celebrate the fact that your body is able to move.

Not everyone is as fortunate. So, yeah, it was a long journey as well. We often get asked how did you kind of overcome it or people think I think because Or people think, I think, because we come across, you know, that we are really happy in our own skin and confident and which we are, we're definitely in a really, really good place with our health and our wellness and the way that we look at food and exercise. But that does not mean that we look in the mirror every day and that we like love everything about ourselves. We don't have any insecurities. We never, ever feel guilt around food or exercise. Like those thoughts can still come up, particularly if they were with you for

such a long, like they're really hard habits to squash. But once you switch why you're doing these things and you reframe that in your own mind, it becomes easier to be less fussed about it. When those thoughts come up, it's so much easier to be like, you know what? I don't need to think that way. You talk to yourself like you might a mate or a sister talk yourself up be your own little cheerleader um and just get on with it and it's it's just easier to kind of push through but you can't really do that if if your why is always the way that you look do you think these like super super models that are like candice on a pool and like all these people do you think they've been through the same thing because they still seem to like

love their career because a lot of them were also getting older like yeah that's the thing about the modeling industry is like there's girls as young as 14 who they're competing with and they're gonna as like a 30 plus year old you're just not gonna be the size of a 14 year old but unfortunately back then that was the pressure so i know back then they certainly did I'm not sure what it's like now there's also like some women naturally sit closer to that size just naturally genetically so maybe they don't have to go to extremes um but not everyone does in fact most people don't so um yeah it's really hard to say you know it'd be tough for them though like especially candice or like because i don't know how old she is now but the entire internet is filled with photos of her looking like the fittest yeah like 100%

but it would be herself i think that's where it would come from because it's like well this is my like like my after photo like that's what i have the standard or whatever that's been set that i have i feel like that would be so hard well i mean that was a big thing for me as well like I grew my following um I think by 2015 I had 500,000 followers and um that was kind of when I was coming out of that time for me and so that was really tough because I was like all these people are following me and I get all this like positive praise on the way I look and And I, I remember also, this is when like trolling really like blew up and started, um, people, like if I was eating a burger or something like that, then they'd start to pick on my looks. I started to be on like these, um, internet websites, which I never go on now because I

learned my lesson, but I think they're like called tattletales and stuff like that. Those, those kinds of horrible trolling websites and they would say stuff like pretty much all of my insecurities that I had as a model, like all these concerns that I had about my size and everything because of what this agency had put into my mind, they'd be like confirming like she's never going to have longevity in the career because like look at her thighs or like just stuff like that. Who are these people?

This is wild that people just sit there and write this stuff. It's like – Yeah. I mean, yeah, we've encountered things like that. They were just such strange. Yeah. But it's hard, especially when, you know, you put a bit of weight on because for me it was healthier to sit a little bit heavier, right?

And so like that's where I started to mend my relationship with food and exercise. But then you'd get people judging you for it because you didn't look like you did when they followed you yeah that's awful yeah god i'm so sorry you guys went through that but you can't like you've created something so positive and also i guess like if you have to look at it as like if that didn't happen to you you wouldn't be like doing this now and helping other people i guess it's like yeah yeah it is interesting when you think about it because like i wouldn't wish that upon anyone I mean that's why kick exists is to hope hopefully

help people if they're in the depths of it but also hopefully help people catch catch it before they get too yeah also like just developing like maybe because some people some people I know just don't know anything about food don't know how to cook nothing so even if people don't have a bad relationship they're just like I just want to be healthy educated educate myself a bit more it's just like a good fun way I guess to do it all in one place as well and also for like young girls just following you guys and seeing a good example actually going through it and coming out the other end in our space I think the only thing that we had that was like unhealthy as such or like as that was I guess being on tv but we never ever

had pressure on how we should look from our producers or anything like that that was, I guess, being on TV, but we never ever had pressure on how we should look from our producers or anything like that. That was never a thing. No, because I mean... Did you feel it internally? Yeah. Yeah. I think you watch yourself back and you're like,

I couldn't watch myself back after episode one. I'm like, I look horrendous. That is not what I look like. Look like. And I honestly couldn't believe that was my face. I know, I'm the same. I was like... Because I think also you don't ever watch yourself talking.

And then also I think the camera basically adds weight to you, right? So you're like, oh my God, I look awful. What is it? Have I put on weight? I did also have a bit of an accident with a bit of Botox. I don't know, we both had that. That happened to me. That happened to me when you were on the TV.

That was the real... Mine was in the gap. Oh no. My God god I didn't get it mine was on TV lovely we have we grind our teeth and we also get stressed

when we grind our teeth probably from filming which yeah the filming made it really bad and like we were both getting migraines

anyway went to the dentist he suggested Botox yeah I've heard that yeah I then continued having it like didn't go to the dentist like went to an actual Botox person.

Obviously you should really go to the specialist dentist. They just shoved it in. My smile was frozen. And I was like, I'm not kidding. It was like that. But she couldn't, I remember, so Sophie, when I first met her, had it.

And I was like, she's really beautiful until she smiles. Like something weird going on with her face. Because it looked like so forced and like odd. There's like a photo that's on the main jealousy Instagram like years and years and years ago

and I screenshot it it's still in my saved it every now and then I'll send it to her like lol remember this and her face is like this on the side

and that's you smiling but I remember looking at myself in the main jealousy because obviously talking you don't really sit in there you don't talk

you look at yourself in the mirror no I did like mouth close it look normal but obviously to everyone else they were like what is going on with her smile I watched a scene back in the mirror no I did like mouth close it look normal but obviously to everyone else they were like

what is going on with her smile I watched a scene back and I'm like how long did it last for six months six months it's a long time

I'm not joking I was like chewing chewing on the whole time and I yeah yeah get that muscle back it was tormenting it was actually

really horrible but teach me a lesson teach me a lesson hey you're a Canadian podcast It was tormenting. It was actually really horrible. But teach me a lecture, Alassane. Hey, you're a Canadian podcast listener, and that makes you important to us. We'd like to know more about you,

what you think of this podcast, and the other podcasts you'd like to hear. So we put together a super brief survey we'd like you to fill out. Complete it, and we'll give you a chance to win one of three $100 Amazon gift cards. That way we can say thanks for your opinion. Just go to mypodcastsurvey.ca and have your say. That's mypodcastsurvey.ca. We've got some questions that our listeners have actually had okay this is quite a good one i've had a bad body image since i was 19 due to comments from my first boyfriend any advice

isn't it it's not a shit one thing can really one comment i also believe from one boyfriend can really like set you in a certain way 100 A hundred percent. Yeah. And it's often the comments that you get when you're, you know, growing up or a new teenager that just sit with you for so long. I know some of my insecurities have been like, and it's not just about appearance insecurities, it's like just personality insecurities, have been what was said to you as a teenager, which is really interesting.

A lot of people we talk to have these like deep-rooted insecurities from something. So I'm so sorry to hear that. That's shocking. And, you know, it's just one person's opinion. I think the biggest thing is, is everyone has a different perception of you. And the most important one is how you see yourself. So try not to let that one comment affect or warp your perception of yourself. It's really hard. I think too. I have this analogy. I'm just pre-warning.

It's pretty morbid, but I find it really helps me sometimes. When we think about like why we are here on this planet and like what we value, if you think about the day of your funeral, if you're just like, I don't know, floating around or like you're in the coffin, but whatever you believe in, you're going to do it. No one is going to come up and stand and do a eulogy and say, like, I loved this person because they had abs or because of their body. Like that's not why we're here. Like that's not the impact that we have on people. And so I think it's just so important for this person. And, again, I'm so sorry.

Like, first of all, did she say ex-boyfriend? Because your boyfriend never talks about your body. They should not be your boyfriend or your partner. But just think like we're not here. Like our bodies are not our worth and it's like doing the work to separate that connection because we are so much more than our bodies. I love that. It's a bit grim, isn't it?

But I always think of it. No, I really like it. It's such a valid point. Yeah, I mean if you spoke to like 80 year old women they don't give a fuck yeah it wasn't even a thing that they would even think about yeah and they'd probably just be like why wasn't i happier in my skin when my 30s or 20s say to myself yeah and i say this to you god i can't wait to be really old and not give a fuck what i look like yeah why don't i just not give a fuck now yeah they say as soon as my mum said

for some reason you're 30s like you just become so much more it. They say as soon as, my mum said, for some reason, you're 30s, like, you just become so much more, it like gets better as you get older, so much more accepting of yourself and also like, you don't give a shit

about what anyone thinks. Like, you're just like, oh, I don't know what it is and then 40s is even better. Yeah, they say it just gets

better and better. Well, that's nice to know. That is nice to know. So just know it's only going to get easier I'm feeling super lucky to be pregnant but struggling with my changing body and weight gain Steph did your views on your body change during and after your pregnancy yeah it's really sad we had quite a few members of our so we've got kick bump which is a pre and postnatal offering

in our app and oh, that's lovely. Yeah. And it's kind of because our community have grown up with us as well. So we do have quite a lot of mums who use Kick. And this came up quite a bit because unfortunately, and we actually did a podcast on it, spoke to someone from the Butterfly Foundation and also spoke to someone who had an eating disorder and became pregnant. And obviously there's a lot of complications with that because an eating disorder can obviously heavily impact your, the health of your body and the health of your baby. So it's like a lot more than just the emotional side of it. But the emotional side of it is, is really hard because you might've got to a place where you found a

routine that works. Um, and not everyone's pregnancies allows for that routine to most pregnancies. You can't keep up with that kind of fitness routine or the same foods that you're used to eating might be completely off-putting. I certainly had my cravings throughout pregnancy was basically all of my comfort foods as a kid, so like biscuits, two-minute noodles, plain pasta, white bread, and butter. Like it was just carbs. And I was fine with it.

I went with the flow, I think, through everything that we've been through and what we've learned, I was able to kind of be in that space. So I was incredibly lucky. I know that if I was pregnant back when I treated food and exercise the way that I used to, it would have been a lot more confusing. But I think even still someone who is really confident and happy with my lifestyle choices and everything, especially throughout that postpartum period. I'd already gone through a period through late pregnancy where I wasn't able to move my body as much. I was very lucky to kind of be able to stay in some sort of routine throughout my pregnancy. But right at the end, I had like hip issues and stuff where I couldn't,

I think the max distance for walking was one kilometerre and I had to be really slow. And for me movement is like my mental health thing and my me time. So that was really difficult mentally. And then postpartum obviously it's really important that you rest and your body's just gone through like an absolute marathon, having a baby no matter how it comes out. So you have to be really gentle with yourself in that time. But I know for people who are incredibly active, it's a really hard thing to get your head around having that type of time off.

But your body's working so hard. Your body has just gone through like the biggest challenge it can possibly go through. And you've created a human. So I started to look at the relationship I had with my body. It was already, again again in a good place, but the respect that I have for my body now versus prior to having my baby is just insane because I'm so blown away by how it all works. It's incredibly fascinating. And I just think women are so incredible what we, what we go through and what our bodies go through. And the fact that like an organ grows inside of you to like help create this baby. And then it's like we don't need that anymore and it comes down it's just like it's all very

fascinating so it can be hard and you know it was certainly hard even you know when um after Harvey and my my tummy started to deflate and everything like that there was still clothes that I didn't fit in for a really long time it was still really had to really ease myself into exercise and all of that was definitely hard to navigate it wasn easy, but knowing that everyone goes through it. And if you touch base with any other mother, they would tell you the same, um, was definitely comforting. Just know you're not alone and it's only a period of time and, um, your body, like we hate the bounce back culture at kick. Our postnatal program is not about bouncing back. It's just about supporting your deep core muscles and your pelvic floor so that if you want to ease

back into exercise, you do it the right way. Cause often if you go too hard too early, you'll reverse yourself back and you'll be put off exercise for a really long time. Yeah. And we just hate that pressure because I think people thought it was a compliment to say things like to people, well, it doesn't even look like you've had a baby. But it's so damaging when we hear that so often because it's like, what's wrong with looking like a mum? And what about the people who don't look like that? Exactly. It's so much pressure.

Exactly, yeah. Which you're so right. My eyes are very, because obviously we like hear it and absorb it because we're females and I guess men do too. But actually hearing that it's actually not right and it's crazy that we all just listen to it and absorb actually hearing that it's actually not right and it's crazy that we all just listen to it and absorb it and think it's normal yeah actually stop and listen to it and be like that who said that that's then I guess like sometimes like for us like we

would try and be paying someone a compliment by seeing someone's just and I'd be like you look bloody brilliant like you look great you know what I mean as well it's really hard to like not maybe say not being aware of it and being like god you've bounced back so well from the pregnancy like i probably would thinking about it i probably would say that to someone not knowing that like yeah could potentially not be the right you know right or wrong but that's because we've been like conditioned to think that we should bounce back so that is a compliment but actually it isn't why are we not like wow look how amazing your body is and it's carried this child and like yeah it's created life it's very true okay should we ask struggling with self

motivation to exercise when going through a tough time mentally even though i know it will help oh that's a tough one that is really hard because motivation i mean motivation to exercise is hard like yeah on good days right no one wakes up and i think it's important like we have it's our job right but we don't wait if I was waited until I was motivated to exercise I would probably exercise one out of ten days so true and I think it's taking the pressure off so maybe for this person exercise for them used to be like really intense running or like crossfit or like just long workouts start small I think that's it's like with everything just like try and set yourself a goal for the week but not a goal of like I'm going to do a one-hour run it's like go for a walk around the block for five minutes and then like you'll feel like I've accomplished that today

sure and then the next day maybe try 10 minutes and then whatever wherever you need to build up from but but build up slowly to get back into it because rebuilding confidence like with exercise it's like rebuilding confidence with with anything and it is like the benefits for our mental health like I'm a runner and I find that like running is like my meditation okay and so when I don't have it I really struggle but also times when I'm feeling like really down I also then struggle to run because I'm like I just don't want to get up I don't want to leave the house I want to stay home but you just just remind yourself that you're doing something for your mind and just start really small and tick it off and set yourself those goals. Yeah, and try and remove, like, the boundaries.

You know, I mean, a big thing with Kik is we try and make healthy living super accessible. So you can just roll out the mat at home. I mean, you could do it on your carpet at home. So, you know, if you often feel like the trip to the gym is overwhelming. It's an overwhelming thought of, like, going to the gym, like, let's just do it at home. Yeah.

And I think for me as well, like what I, my routine looks really different to how it used to look and it's not as maybe regular as it once was, but, and that can be hard when it's not as regular, it's harder to keep motivated because it's almost easier when you're doing something more frequent. But it kind of, it is what it is. And I've accepted I've got a new routine, but sometimes what I do, we've got, you know, as I said earlier, five minute workouts on the app.

And if I'm not really feeling that motivated and I'm really not sure if it's because my body actually needs rest or because I'm just kind of feeling like I can't be fucked, I'll roll out the mat. I'll do a five minute mini. And at the end of it, I'll be like, you know what? Yep. That's definitely all I needed to do today. I don't want to do any more or I'll have the energy and I'll be like, I've got time.

I'll do more. Yeah. That's a really good way. Because sometimes, because you know, it's all about listening to your body. Sometimes I really can't tell the difference whether I'm just making an excuse or whether I actually need to, I would be more beneficial to just sleep. Yeah. Someone once told me like, exactly, it's exactly what you guys are saying but even if the process of going to the gym or like doing something in your house you don't have to work

out and do a sweat like stretch or just yeah just like stick to that some form of routine yeah whether it's even literally just moving your body and that will make a hundred percent and like the days when you do just snooze the alarm that often can creep up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's definitely like working out the difference between when your body actually needs like full rest. That's okay too. And don't feel guilty for that.

But everyone's really different as well with the type of exercise that feels good for a certain mood. So like, for example, if I'm feeling really upset or angry about something, you know, I might just go for a really long walk and it just clears my head. I'm like that. If I was to try and force myself to do like a HIIT workout in that time. Like intense music. Yeah. I would not finish that workout feeling good. No.

Because it runs over the problem more and more and more and more and more. So I can't do, we used to do this thing called like on the climb, the versa clim the climb and I went through like a period of my life where I was like really anxious and whatever and that was like honestly the worst thing I was like I've come out of that feeling more anxious than I felt when I went exactly because I'm in there and the music's going on all I'm thinking about is that thing and my mind is wearing whereas now I'm like pilates and walking is like the thing that I've learned that works for me and also I felt really shit after cardio. My body felt exhausted. Obviously it doesn't work well with me. I think it's finding something that you just like.

Yep. It's so important. 100%. You're more likely to be motivated that way as well. Yeah. It shouldn't be that much of a, you should find some enjoyment. Yeah, you should feel some joy.

Once you start up, like that was just torture. And it's okay, like sometimes to challenge yourself, like absolutely, if you want to go for a PB, if you're a runner or you're doing strength and you want to go that's fine but when it feels like a punishment no that's not right five times a week yeah it was not I was exhausted I didn't feel good I was like I just need to go and your body then is so stressed with cortisol yeah right maybe because your body's just stressed when I when

I was excessively exercising I was doing like two classes a day, but not pre-art, gone through one of the journeys. And I was always, like I always had inflammation because my body, I was just pushing myself to do stuff that my body didn't feel good with. Do you mean you were inflamed or you felt bad? Like you, no, well both. I mean you feel like you're allergic, but then inflammation in your body. So when you're stressed and you have like your cortisol levels are really,

really high, you retain more fluid. You just don't feel as good as you usually do. But that's when you're pushing your body when you're really, really stressed. And we can do that with exercise too. Yes. Fascinating. Inflammation is like I'm always anti-inflammatory everything.

So if you notice that, I'm anti-inflammatory. It's always the way forward. What are your thoughts on calorie counting and restrictions of food groups? I know we kind of touched on that. I also feel like, I don't know if you had this in Australia, but in the UK, we recently had this thing to try and stop obesity because it's obviously really bad in the UK. They put calories on menus. I hate that.

They've now stopped it and they've now done it so you can scan it and then look. Oh, that's good. It was so awful. I think in a way, if someone was like, right, I'm trying to understand food and I think sorry it was so I think in a way it's if someone was like right I need to I'm trying to understand food and I think having a Caesar salad is super healthy when they see on maybe the calorie thing oh okay it's not I'm actually gonna have the chicken and vegetables maybe that I mean they don't know I was I really didn't like it but for some people it was quite like it put me off I was like Jesus that's like 2,000 calories and maybe I shouldn't have that yeah everything was I'm sure they doubled it like I can't understand it. No, everything was, I'm sure they doubled it. Like I can't understand it.

My avo on toast was like 1,800 calories. I was like, but why? But it makes everything like food into a number. And it is, it's important because I think like we've been so lucky to grow up in families and be educated with like what's healthy and what's on a balance and moderation. Like that's so important. But I think around, so for me, again, like back to my like super disciplined personality,

I would count every calorie I was eating in this stupid app. And it was, yeah. Yeah, loads of people. And it does work. That works for some people. But for me, I just, every single food I ate was about being a number. And also if you want to eat low calorie food, most of it, you just eat literally full processed like protein things because it's like, they're the ones with with the lowest calories but they've also got no nutrients and they've

got so many artificial like it's really really processed it's really processed food and so for me i've i found that i i had to i had to stop calorie counting it so i would kick like all of our recipes are checked by a dietician like calorie wise but we don't have any calories in the app because it is because when you go out for dinner if you just want to go out for a pizza or whatever you don't want to look at it as a number because then you start to think about it and it like controls everything you then end up feeling like guilty about it you should just be enjoying it enjoying your food yeah yeah i really didn't enjoy it i know they have stopped it i think so you can now scan it and look if you really want to look but it's like an f it's not just in your face yeah I really think calorie counting is like one of the worst things it's it's

yeah it's a really hard thing because like look it could be beneficial and stuff like that like for health reasons and stuff like that if you're if you're working with a health professional like that and then they've said you need to for whatever health reason fine like that's obviously necessary but other than that I don't know anyone who's done it who hasn't then become obsessed with it yeah um and yeah it can spiral but when it comes to then the other side of it which is you know kind of demonizing certain food groups and calling things healthy and unhealthy and all that yeah um because that was kind of more so the journey that I went on um it's the trouble with it is then just like,

I don't know what it is in our brains, but when we restrict ourselves from something, then we can't stop thinking about it. And then so if it's ever around. What is that about? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know scientifically what it is, but it's, I mean, we're depriving ourselves of something.

And for me, it wasn't just like your kind of obvious, incredibly processed foods. It wasn't just like that. It was like carbs. It was like these things that are like necessity like necessities yeah yes necessities in our diet right to to have energy and everything um but I demonized them for so long so then when they were in front of me I would just go ham and then I'd feel really shit about it and I just kind of spiral into like this just depressed state. So that's also incredibly unhealthy.

So I think why we are, you know, anti kind of diet wherever you have to have some sort of restriction or really strict on calories is because often it's not sustainable. So it's really not an enjoyable way to live your life. And if you can find a place where you're educated enough on like nutrition, where you're definitely getting enough like protein and healthy fats and everything. So you've got energy to do your workouts,

to get through your day. That's definitely important. But also it's important to be able to go have pizza and a wine with your girlfriend or in the night with chocolate and not feel shit about it. That's really important. Or go to family dinner. Yeah. Like going to, I remember going to family dinner and being like,

oh, I don't want to eat my mum's food because it's like she didn't. Or avoiding family dinner. But that's the stuff that brings people together, right? And that's where it's really, really dangerous. Yeah. I follow a girl who is friends with my boyfriend and she had quite a bad idea. Her name's Millie G Fit on Instagram.

Yeah. And she did like a – she always talks about it quite openly but she did this thing she was like the thoughts that would go through my brain when someone like would invite me to dinner or if it was like a weekend it was like no I can't go because then I have to eat in front of them so I'm gonna have to cancel it then it means I have no friends then I'm just at home and then like the spiral of like this like just go over and over and over again and I was like god that's exhausting yeah I controls your pulse rate. I have, it's like opened this whole,

well, I guess it's really beneficial, like social media now is like showing us and people being super transparent about stuff. Yeah. So now it's almost, hopefully having a bit

of a full circle moment where the education is becoming more positive rather than it being this weird like hidden thing. Like I'm naturally this skin or whatever. I feel like I've had a lesson lesson I feel like I've known you guys for ages I'm just I've really

enjoyed it and I'm so so grateful for you guys coming on every minute of it if you guys highly recommend getting the app kick and listening to your podcast yeah i mean if you're interested in trying out the app we'd love you to um if you head to our website so it's kickapp.com.uk is it yeah yeah it would be it is just ending it.com um and then our monthly subscription um you'll get a free month if you just pop in the code wednesdays and then once you've got your subscription you can download the app from android or apple if you just pop in the code Wednesdays and then once you've got your subscription you can download the app from Android or Apple Store and just log in

guys you get a free mum with the code Wednesdays that's also a good amount of time to really give it a good go I think so I'm definitely signing up today

I'm very excited because like I said my recipes are just boring mine are so boring I'm such a creature of habit yeah guys thank you so much thank you so much god what great girls that was so fascinating so fascinating really actually uplifting also I think

it's not comforting it's like really reassuring yeah I guess to see people that you look at on Instagram and then like you understood that they're so transparent with their journey and then they're so real about it and then like they've turned into such a positive thing which is now so accessible and they really want to help people and they're so passionate about it and they've really gone through it themselves I think obviously to quite an extreme I guess it's actually really ironic when you think about it like for example like Steph saying look I was going through this because I was meant to be beautiful like she was forced into a way by that industry but then we followed her and we ironically were probably more like she was sort of like what I wanted to look like so she was almost in our minds like the pillar of perfection

I want to look like her and little did I know like she was going through all of this and it's just such a nice 360 to see someone who I used to be like I want to look like come out and be like well actually you know it wasn't what it was cracked up to be it's just pressure and now I'm in this place and now they're helping so many other people I also think it's quite important they were like we don't want to help people that have also been in a bad place because obviously they do but they also want to help prevent people from getting into that place in the first place by having a good relationship with food and exercise and learning that there's so much more to life than precisely and to enjoy it anyway guys we hope you loved it and we'll see

you next week bye guys We'll be right back. you. I do. Daily Jackpots. A chance to win with every spin and a guaranteed winner by 11pm every day. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Select games only. Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded or 11pm Eastern. Restrictions apply. See full terms at canada.casino.fandu.com. Please play responsibly.

That's it for this week Wednesdays, but god, don't you just fancy some more Melissa yeah I'd really love a follow-up to some of those dilemmas I want to know what happens well then tinies we have got some news for you we have launched a premium version of Wednesdays now listen subscribers get access to the podcast ad free with bonus episodes it's pretty amazing it's also packed full of dilemma follow-ups which we love and some of our more personal stories and recommendations and it's super easy you just listen on your favorite app how cool is that amazing and all the info is in the episode description and in our insta bio