Weekly Skews - Weekly Skews - 3/16/21 - What is Populism? w/ Jim Hightower

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Tonight we talk smack about Mississippi for a bit, as is custom, as well as getting into the nitty gritty on the subjects of populism and rural progressivism with Jim HightowerSupport the show

There we go. Hey, there we are. Hey, everybody. Welcome back. Today's Tuesday, March 16th, 2021. I'm Trey Crowder, and that's Mark Aegee. What's up, Mark? Nothing, Trey. Feeling of mixed emotions, because happy the pandemic's almost over, but I realized there's been a whole year and I didn't learn a single new skill. So, uh, yeah. I didn't do anything. You know, I didn't do nothing. I did a couple things. I picked up, uh, baking, which is very frustrating. Uh, bread has a mind of it. own i found out yeast can't figure out how that works but you know we're trying and then most recently uh me and my sons planted a little uh garden of sorts and i i talked about me mom i got her advice on it because she always had a garden growing up and i you know it takes a while for seeds to sprout but every day for the past like seven days i've been telling katie like them seeds is dead i did something wrong i killed them so that that's not right she's like it takes a minute for them to sprout up and i'm like no no no no no no

I did something wrong, but the past couple of days, seeing some little greeneries coming up through there. I've got like, yeah, 14 little sproutlings. We're going to say, you know, your standard herbs and peppers and whatnot, but I'm looking forward to it. So we'll see what happens. So you did, my, uh, you learn nothing. No, no, which is weird because like, of the two of us,

I'm the one much more likely to think the apocalypse is about to happen. And you were out there preparing to make and grow your own food. And I was just like ready to die. Yeah. My dad, we had a garden when I was a kid, but ours was like two acres and my dad would make me work in it all summer. So I'd like kind of like, I guess it's why I wouldn't start out of the apocalypse is that this like innate resentment of having to grow my own food because I'm most

identified with fighting on my sisters in the dirt. Yeah. You're like, no, I live in the future. I don't need to know how to do this shit. This isn't cool. Yeah. Yeah. The apocalypse comes.

That's fine. I don't need baits. I'll but, you know, whatever. Yeah. You got to meet somebody up and steal their baits, Mark. You know, that's why you stock on one ammunition. What I need beans for if I have a gun and. ammunition take your beats that is the american way i never like i never really related to apocalypse

movies because i always think like why are people fighting so hard to survive i don't understand it yeah just let it go yeah just lay back and take it there's no more air conditioning like there's no more tv or movies more HBO right yeah no air conditioning no HBO just take me now apocalypse yeah yeah my zombie all right so With us, as always, producer Matt doing his thing, and this is weekly skews tonight. We engage in that time-honored American tradition, particularly in the south, of Ragano, Mississippi for a while, particularly their governor, Tate Reeves, who remains steadfastly dedicated to his governance philosophy, which states that owning the libs is more important than taking care of his people.

We'll get into all the gory details of that. We also, a little bit later, are going to have a conversation. I'm very much looking forward to on the subject of populism. What is it really? What should it be? And also the future of progressivism in this country, particularly in rural America. We'll be having this conversation with one of the OGs of the field, Mr. Jim Hightower. It's going to be a great show.

But first, as always, we begin with the Daily Dumbass. Matt, graphic, please. If you have it, he literally just texted me and asked me to stall for two minutes. That's what I'm going to do. Yes, Jim Hightower is a former two-time Texas Commissioner of Agriculture, but also has been a populist commentator on radio and in print and a New York Times bestselling author for years now. So this man has walked the walk for a very long time

and knows exactly what he's talking about. So looking forward to that conversation. Yeah, I like this is my, I was reading up some background information by Jim. There's a profile in the LA Times written in 1985 when he was the Texas ad commissioner. And it's a quote he had Ronald Reagan promised us a seven-course dinner, but all we got

was a six-pack and a possum. A six-pack of a hawsum. I like that. So our buddy and friend of the show, Drew Morgan, is back in Morgan County, Tennessee right now. This is just a fun little story for y'all. He went back,

like a all right sorry about that everybody i'm texting producer matt trying to figure out what to do i'm gonna for just a second so drew went back home to morgan county tennessee hadn't been there two weeks and he's posting pictures of himself with a possum on his shoulders so you know just down right back into the culture he's now got a uh like you know the equivalent of a parrot for a pirate But in Morgan County, that's a possum you get on your shoulder. But the funniest thing was we were texting him about, here comes Matt. We were texting, he was, Drew was in the middle of a long-ass rant about how, like, media

stereotypes, hillbillies and Southerners as being like poor white trash idiots. And then in the middle of that rant says, hey, my buddy just brought over his pet possum, and this is a picture where the possum sitting on his shoulder. Yeah. All right. Matt said he had to restart on his. is in and now he's back so okay all right on tonight's daily dumbass segment for the second week in a row we're going to be discussing the n-word is it making a comeback many would say it

never left in case you don't know what i'm talking about if you missed it a oklahoma high school basketball commentator was so incensed by one team's decision to kneel during the national anthem that he referred to them as quote fucking in words although of course he didn't say in word he He said the real deal, full hard R, put all the stank on it, whole nine yards. He did this without realizing that he was speaking into a hot mic. Now, you might think that's a truly monstrous thing to have done, but before you rush to judgment, you should know that the man in question has since provided a perfectly reasonable explanation for this.

Matt, play the clip if you have it. Shea, the announcer Matt Rowan issued a statement apologizing for his comment. He said he's not a racist and said he has type one diabetes. and that when his sugar spikes, he becomes disoriented and says things that are inappropriate and hurtful. Now, to be clear, saying inappropriate and hurtful things is not listed as a symptom of diabetes on the Mayo Clinic website. They went to the website, Trey. He told me he wants the in-aff-it. We've got moving made out of that, Matt.

You can cut that off. So, Mark, the sugar made him do it. What do you think about that? I mean, diabetes caused racism. I'm happy that science has finally discovered what causes me-maws. we finally got to the bottom of that. Yeah, right. Yeah, you know, like, obviously, the major reaction is to, you know, make fun of this man.

But I think about my time growing up in rural Tennessee, and this is anecdotal, I admit. But in my experience, I feel like the Venn diagram of people with the Betus, and I'm not talking about diabetes here, I'm talking about the Betus, which is the special subtype of diabetes. The Bidus. The Bidigar. of people with the beatus and people who said the N-word, you know, there was a fair amount of overlap there. Yeah. There might be something to this hypothesis.

Just in a hunch, Matt looked up a map of the states to the highest rates of diabetes. If you have that map, throw it up, throw it up at. Because it pretty much proves this guy's hypothesis. There you have it. Look at that. Yeah. Look where the red is. The red is where the red is.

The red is where the red is. so yeah he might be on to something there yeah I don't know this guy's going to write a memoir probably of that in words

took my foot that's what like yeah yeah yeah yeah look obviously we're kidding around

and making fun of this guy because that's what he deserves and you know said jokingly a couple times oh don't judge him until you hear his explanation no please judge him but we've

we've had a conversation similar this on here before and I know it's not Evitae, but like it continues to blow my mind that I know he thought the mic was off. I cannot imagine a person with the audacity to say something that hardcore about a group of high school children with a microphone in front of his face and in a public setting. You know what I mean? I mean, I know it isn't surprising, but to me, it's just like the level of brazen, shitty, stupidity of so many people in this country never ceases to amaze me, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, he doesn't work for the school. I forget why he works for some

company was broadcasting high school, a girl's basketball game, and I don't really understand why, but anyway, he got suspended while they're conducting an investigation. I don't know what you're investigating. The guy already admitted he said it. It was on tape. But if you're not familiar with Norman, Norman's a college town just outside of Oklahoma City. Oh, you, right? That's where Oklahoma varsity is at. So it's College Town. Those kids, if you wouldn't get the news report of the story, all those kids weren't even, I mean, half the kids were white.

They were kneeling in solidarity with their teammates. And by the way, in response to this, the next game, both teams kneeled. So, and they asked one of the students, and they're like, well, the dude actually showed while we kneeled. So there you go. Right. That puts a bow on it. Yeah, 100%. All right.

So moving into the Honorable Mensions, first up, Honorable Mention for Daily Dumbass. We have cats in case they ever thought Donald Trump gave a shit about them. And Matt, you can put the clip up whenever you have it. He dropped in for a special guest appearance unannounced in Mara Lago. So look it up there. Look, there's really beautiful one of this. So I didn't exactly prepare for this, but I was born. I hear everybody screaming in the bomb and said, what's going on?

Listen, we're going to help dogs. That's okay. That's what you want to thank Lloyd and I want to tell you Tamara, who's been so incredible. I don't know. You're running for the seven. I just have been able to. And I want to think of what you're doing is so great and so important. Yeah, the video goes on where he goes to say,

many high-level meetings in the Oval Office about how to help dogs. I don't know how to say this straight, but I do not believe him. Yeah, yeah, something seems a little off about that to me. You know, I assume these were like good, high-quality dogs as opposed to Joe Biden's piece of shit, old-ass, sorry dog, which the American right has made a point of disgracing in recent weeks. These are only the good dogs that they're saving. Yeah, but yeah, no.

Trump famously hates dogs, by the way. How this works, right? The charity question. Laura Trump runs a dog charity, which apparently serves as a pass-through to pay donations to to Trump properties. It was basically the same thing that Eric got caught doing with children's cancer charities and what Trump did with veterans charities and the reason they lost their licenses to be, they were, the Trumps are forbidden to be on the boards of charities because they got

caught stealing so much. Laura apparently has escaped this band and she runs this dog charity. that has raised, well, that particular event paid Moralago $225,000. I don't know how much went to an actual dog. I'm guessing not much. But over the years, $1.9 million of all their money, $1.9 billion has been paid towards fundraising costs. So it's a typical charity hustle.

What you do is take the money and you pay yourself the money for raising money. So that's what Laura's up to right here. Yeah. So Trump's are doing what the Trumps do, which is a fine honor. systems exploit them. Yeah. Grifting, yes. Yeah.

Yep. But like you said, yeah, that's how a lot of charities grift in that way. I mean, I'm not ragging on the concept of charities. There's a lot of good charities out there too, but it's a common thing in the charity world that, yeah, they take, there's like some really low percentage that they have to spend on the actual cause. And as long as they do that, then technically there's still a charity. But what that amounts to is like the vast majority of the funds they take in just goes

to like paying themselves. or lining their own coffers in one way or another. So, yeah, the Trumps are going to have the dogs. It's like in a breast cancer awareness month, if you buy a pink Dallas Cowboys hat, 10% of the profits go towards breast cancer research, which is not even like, so not 10% of the net, 10% of the profits. So not even so the profits are still going to Gary Jones. All right.

We have another couple of honorable mentions, but Matt, producer Matt, if you're listening right now, I want to skip ahead to the artistic. masterwork that former Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's been spending her time on in recent months. Mark,

you want to set this up for us, please? All right. So Steve Mnuchin's wife, her name's Louise Linton. You might remember her from the pictures holding the money

at the money factory. I forget, the mint. There you go. And she also got in trouble. shop you know where they got to where they make the money stuff at yeah yes she also got got in a fight with a bunch of uh a few years ago got a fight with a bunch of regular people on instagram because she grapped herself stepping off of a u.s government jet which she wasn't

supposed to be traveling on and someone's like really you're wearing like louis Vuitton shit a taxpayer funded jet and anyway she gets you i'm sorry my life is more important you or she said that to a lady or something approximating that anyway if you wonder what she's been up to in the years since besides hiding out los angeles and trying not to be in the newspaper or anymore. She got back to make a movie. She was an actress before she met Mnuchin, not a particularly successful one. Her credits are mostly like Dead Hooker and CSI and stuff like that. But anyway, so now she has Steve Mnuchin money, so she financed her own movie. And it's

pretty amazing. Let me read a description from one of the reviews. The movie has, it co-stars Gossip Girls Ed Westwick. It has diamonds, spider, sex, spin classes, knives, fight scenes, curling irons, weapons, theragons, whatever. That. that is, the line, I'm going to disembowl this kid and kill him, which she says, a wedding, a dinner, and a menu that includes dog, includes testicles, and a drug-fueled poolside orgy. Now, I want you to remember all that and watch this clip of this scene, which is about nothing except her being cool as shit. It's a dream. No neighbors, huh?

Throw some pretty sweet parties. Won't get any noise complaints. No, that never is. Activate party mode She's like, that's like, that's enough. She's like, that's enough at the end, she shuts it off. activate party mode right activate party mode it's like she can't just go into dancing she's first got to activate party mode then just break it down for a little bit and then after that

just stop also love how my man's rocking the like that like 90s shirt tied around your waist thing bringing it back man imagine being that dude I you know like like just imagine like do you see him trying to react to that, doing as good a job as anybody could do, I feel like, because how do, what do you make your face do when your face is pointed towards that happening when you, when you watch the trailer, it's pretty apparent she's trying to do like some sort of like dark comedy or parody of people like herself, but here's the thing. It's kind of like if you made American Psycho, but Patrick Bateman was being played by Patrick Bateman. Because here's the, here's the voiceover over the trailer. All right. Yeah, let me read

it to you. My name is Catherine Black. You may think that I'm a materialistic, narcissistic, self-asort misanthropy. I don't deny it. I'm a hedge fund manager. I'm addicted to fashion, the accumulation of money, exercise, and sex. My life is incredible. Everybody, we haven't yet mentioned for anybody that's curious, the name of this cinematic masterpiece is called Me, You, You. madness. I believe it's available on demand right now. If anybody wants to check it out, and it's one of those things where it's like, I don't necessarily want to support this, but I can't help but want to watch this now. Oh, I'll watch it. Like I want to see, you know,

it's train wreck cinema. I've got to see it play out. Yeah, I'm definitely going to watch it. All right. So we mentioned up top we're going to be talking shit about Mississippi for a little bit. Again, this is mostly about their governor, Tate Reeves. What's going on with? Him and them right now, as he's made it clear, that Mississippi is going to reject the Medicaid expansion for working class constituents. Essentially, they're turning down a lot of money, a whole lot of money. They basically would be getting paid to take the money they've been refusing to take already, if that makes sense. Like, they've been, you know, rejecting Medicare expansions and whatnot there already. Now there's an incentive where they would get.

even more money if they just took the money, the government's trying to give them, which would go to our health care for the denizens of Mississippi, and Tate Groves is just having none of it. He's refusing to do it because, you know, socialism, I guess, is the other thing? The probably fundamental flaw in Obama's presidency was he had, he believed in the good hearts of Republicans and the good nature of them. And so, like, the Obamacare was structured to reimburse states for accepting Medicaid

expansion, right? So it was going to cover like, I don't know, 80, 90% of the costs, a lot of the costs, right? But what kind of idiot would not take free money to give their constituents health care for 10 cents on the dollar? Well, 12 states didn't. So they sabotaged Obamacare from the start and been trying to kill it for, you know, whatever, nine years now. And then so Yeah, one of those states, real quick, one of those states was Tennessee, by the way. And meanwhile, the hospital in my hometown has closed twice in two years or whatever. Can't keep the hospitals open there. And this is part of the reason why.

So in the COVID bill, what Biden went back to is like, okay, well, this is the way Affordable Care Act structure. We can't restructure right now. But we're going to cover 100% of the cost if you expand it. A hundred percent of cost. So you can't even say your state's too broke to pay the 10% or 20% or whatever. it's you're not expanding government anyway this already exists all you have to do is take it now he's essentially rejecting more than a hundred like it pays more than a hundred percent we're giving the

states extra money to take it and tay riz's like nah still not taking it so if you pay federal taxes in mississippi you're getting less than zero on your dollar you're paying for health care for people in other states that you don't have access to him because your governor fucking hates you basically um well is it that he hates the people of mississippi mark or is it just that he's got higher priorities. Yeah, he's been real busy. For example, this week, he signed a bill keeping transgender students from women's sports. It's the first anti-trans law of 2021, which we talked about in recent episodes.

How many trans kids do you think they're trying to play women's girls sports in Mississippi today? Right. I mean, literally can't be more than a handful. Half a dozen. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So that's what he's concerned with while.

You know, his constituents can't get medicine in the middle of a goddamn fucking pandemic. By the way, he lifted the state's mask orders. And while he's doing that, he still going, he still has time to go on Sunday shows and also keep repeating that Joe Biden did not legitimately win the election. So, yeah, he's an asshole. I hate him. But we wanted to tell, if you guys are Mississippi voters and you're undecided on Tate and Reeves, we wanted to tell you guys a little bit about him besides the things we just told you,

which is pretty much all you need to know that he doesn't care whether you live or die. And he's more concerned with doing culture war signaling and going on. on Sunday shows to try to jur up more insurrections at the Capitol. He got in trouble like anybody named Tate Reeves who would be climbing in Republican politics. Turns out he was in a racist fraternity that had a bunch of blackface scandals. What? No. Surely not.

Not Tate Reeves? I Tate Reeves. Oh. So there's a fraternity called Kappa Alpha, which of course he was. And if Matt, if you have those pictures of somebody dug up these pictures from his frat days and it includes some, when I say black face pictures, this is not just somebody dressing up as a black person for Halloween. They did menstrual show type makeup with like red lipstick and shit. Yeah, one of the pictures, I saw it looked like they were like in like tribal black face or something. Like full on like, you know, like you said, not just regular.

regular you know no it's all bad variety regular black face this is advanced black face that they were doing at day raises school you let like it's all don't don't do any kind of black face right i'm i'm being very clear but like usually it's somebody's like well i like i just wanted i was dressing up like david ortees for halloween i had the jersey i just way i i so i browned my face up to be david or t's you're like well you fucking suck you're stupid but this intensity did blackface like they did in the minstrel shows like like yeah that picture on the right there let's see what they have a uh yes they look like uh worse racist juggalo's do you know what i mean it's like if you took juggalo's and made them the clan you know if you mix juggalo's and

the clan this is what you come out with uh yeah on the right this was this was while this is while tate raves was there by the way so this is his fraternity while he was there if you have the next picture. There's a big group photo where they're all dressed like the Confederate Army. And Tate Reeves is probably in that picture, although it's like taking far enough way because it has like 80 guys. Right. Well, because that's the thing, and I don't care about being fair to Tate Reeves, but like, he has not been, he's not in these pictures, right? Him specifically. Like, he hasn't been confirmed and verified as being in them, but he was in this fraternity at this time when these pictures were taking, just in the interest of

accuracy. That's the situation. I wonder how he went about, I don't know, how he scrubbed that and if he just got lucky, because he was like passed out drunk or something every time they had a Confederate picture day or whatever. Or if he didn't even then, he wanted to get into politics, which I'm sure he did know that then. Yeah, they all know that. Yeah, right. And so he, you know, he kindly stepped to the side. whenever the cameras came out or something.

But you know he wasn't opposed to the practice. I'm from Virginia, and we had a governor, my current governor also had a blackface scandal. And today, I think it's today he just signed a bill, re-enfranchising felons, giving the right to vote. They've expanded Medicaid. Like, Ralph Northam, just because he's signing the bills, the progressive legislatures putting in front of him,

it's turned out to be the best governor of Virginia in my lifetime. So, eh, I don't know. Maybe we'll let that one go, I guess. but in general, a little bit more of some fun Tate Rees facts. His running mate is lieutenant governor is named Delbert Housman, which thought was great. And just you don't Tennessee Republicans are all bad, Delbert Housman realized in 2013 when he was a Secretary of State that the 13th Amendment, you know, eradicating slavery.

Turns out Mississippi had never actually, they'd have voted to approve that. If they hadn't sent it over to the National Archives, he rectified that. So Delbert Housman ended slavery in Mississippi in 2013, so we're proud to him for that. Well, again, they've been busy, Mark. They've had stuff going on down there. You know, they couldn't get around to officially outlawing slavery until the 21st century, 13 years into the 21st century. Do you remember Charles Barclay's famous quote about, I forget exactly its phrase, but Alabama's one saving. grace is thank God for Mississippi.

It's funny you say that because I said up top we're going to, you know, engage in that time our tradition of ragging on Mississippi. And yes, it's very much a thing. If people like for people from outside the South are not aware. And look, I, you know, I get it. I know what it's like to be from a place that's got a whole lot of dumbasses in it. So I know there's a lot of wonderful Mississippians out there. But it is still very much a thing in the South in general that's like, well, at least

we ain't Mississippi. You know what I mean? It's like, it sort of like goes down on a geographical scale where I know Kentucky's like, well, at least we're not Tennessee. And in Tennessee, we're like, well, at least we're not Alabama. And then Alabama's like, well, at least we're not Mississippi. And then Mississippi has no one to point to. Like, Mississippi is the one that we're all just like, well, you know, look over there.

Could be even worse. Yeah, they're like, at least we're not Ukraine. I don't know. But I believe in Mississippi. They can get it together. All right. Yeah. All right, let's get into the introing our guest tonight. We'll bring him in in just a second. So our guest this evening is a bit of a modern day Johnny Appleseed. This man spreads the message of progressive populism all across the American grassroots in the 90s.

He became known as America's most popular populist. He is the twice elected commissioner of Texas agriculture and a national radio commentator, New York Times bestselling author, and public speaker. He spent four decades battling the powers that be on behalf of the powers that ought to be regular people. And every month he pins the newsletter, the Hightower Lowdown, that blasts through the corporate media blockade to lend new reporting and a populist perspective on the events of the day. I would like quickly, before we bring him in here, his name is Jim Hightower. I want to read some of his message he posted on his website after the election. Because after the election, there's a lot of talk about how liberals, Democrats, the left. we were disappointed in the results, right?

And he's trying to buoy people up. And this is what he says. This is movement building at its best impurist. Not only are we electing abroad and expanding network of officials, but also these runs, even the ones that fall short, do three essential things that advance the overall democratic cause. One, they increase the number, skills, and collective experience of our grassroots volunteers. Two, they spread and refine our progressive slash populist message. And three, they teach us how to run better next time if we're willing to learn.

My message is an old and proven one. Persevere. Keep pushing. Build on what you learn. Reach out. A movement is not a weekend project. So with that said, let's please bring them in here. Like I said, one of the OGs, Mr. Jim Hightower, everybody.

Hey, Trey. Mark. Howdy, sir? Great to be with you guys. And I mean, following your dumbass presentation there, you know, Lily Tomlin once said, no matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up. That seems to be what's happening in America these days. So I appreciate your effort to not just expose, but to energize people to do something about this bullshit that's going on. anyway. Yeah, well, you know, we do what we can. I've never amazed by people's capacity to say things they not only know aren't true, but don't believe, just constantly. It's a, the bad faith is a bottomless. I thought they would get to the bottom of the well eventually, but we're not getting there.

I love your, your, your, your pitch about the minutia lady, about how valuable charity is, you know, I, I think of Earl Long, former governor of Louisiana. who told once about a rich man who died and tried to get into heaven on the basis of that he was a philanthropist. He said, that time I put a nickel in the woman's poem who needed car fare home. That time I gave, put a nickel in the blind beggar man's cup, the time I put a nickel in the Salvation Army kettle. And as you know, if you've gone to a southern church, you'd know that you just don't get into heaven. You've got to appeal to the angel in front of the pearly gates who decides whether you get it.

And then St. Peter, back behind the gate, decides whether you get in her. And this angel, after this guy presented, said, what in the world are we going to do with this man? And St. Peter said, give him back at 15 cents and tell him to go to hell. I never heard that. I like that. That's real populism right there. Yeah. Okay.

Well, all right. On that note, yeah, let's talk about it again. You spent decades spreading the populist word. And lately, you know, populism is a term that people hear more and more. You describe populism as, quote, a political doctrine rooted in the rebellious spirit and commitment to the common good of ordinary grassroots Americans, end quote. But as you know, Donald Trump has very much been painted as a populist, right? A lot of people think populace when they think of Donald Trump at this point. A, do you consider Donald Trump to be any kind of populist?

And B, what is populism really? Or what should it be, I guess? Donald Trump is not even a human, much less a populist. Yeah. I mean, let's deal with the reality here. Populism is an actual movement that began after the Civil War. 1870s, 1880s, it was the, it invented a very progressive new economy based not on corporatism, but on cooperative operations that would allow farmers and workers and et cetera

to control their own destiny. They could have capital that they could invest themselves. They could control the marketplace. They would have access to all sorts of education and et cetera. Populism was a fundamental people's movement, little people's movement, battling the powers that be on behalf of the powers that ought to be, those work-a-day ordinary folks in our country. And they took it on.

The populist movement was the first to endorse women's suffrage as a political movement. They were the first to support wage and hour laws for labor that they should have a right to a decent wage and a future in the economy.

They were the first to oppose lobby power in the Congress, et cetera, et cetera. So it was a movement of ordinary people standing up against the powers that be, the powers that we're running roughshod over just farmers, over working people, over the environment, over every aspect of our lives today. And we are still in the midst of that battle.

The fundamental point of populism is that too few people control too much of the money and power. Right. And they use that money and power to get more for themselves at our expense. That's what it is. It's simple. yeah um so do you think because i've said for a long time i've always thought that i agree with you donald trump isn't even a human let alone a populace but he there was a very concerted effort i feel like on his part and the part of his campaign to inject this sort

of populist rhetoric into it where he's like appealing to you know regular people working people or whatnot and i felt like a big part of why that seems to have worked for a lot of them is because it felt like he was the only one really doing it you know and especially when you look at like the Democrats particularly at that time they just weren't even pretending to care about a lot of these people and I know obviously I knew then

and I know now that Donald Trump was full of shit when he was saying all that but he was the only one that was like attempting to say it you know and like do you think that how much of that do you think plays into it being sort of a missed opportunity on the left After him filling that space, I guess.

You don't have to be in who's who to know what's what and what's what is that neither political party is standing up for the work of day people of the country, not standing up for the dirt farmers, not standing up for working families. Again, not standing up for the environment, people whose water is being poisoned, you know, et cetera, right down the line. So, so, yeah, we open ourselves up to Donald Trumpism. which is not anything except egotism. Right. And that then can become a sort of godly sort of thing for a number of people because, you know, what else do they have? Well, that's the question. I mean, are we going to be a, are we going to put forward a real people's politics again,

of politics of ordinary people taking on those economic powers that are just barnstorming over the work-of-day people of the country and creating an inequality that is intolerable in a democracy. You can't have a democracy with the kind of suppression and oppression and repression that we have in our society today. We've got to put a new politics forward. Yeah. Do you, I was thinking today about why,

I never been able to quite figure it out why Trump got hit with the label populist. I have theories, but I think it's just because he sounded angry. And other politicians trying to get elected to the national office try really hard to not sound angry. They wanted off these vague, positive-sounding platitudes about moving forward.

And he had Trump who doesn't have the discipline to do that, so he's just yelling all the time. And so people assumes he must be mad at someone who's the right target. market. And I just kind of been able to put my finger on. He's just like, because, I mean, Trump is mad at people who he thinks of is looking down on him, which would be like New York Times at a troll page and, you know, mainstream TV. Like, he didn't get an Emmy. He didn't like, he's mad at like New York State building inspectors. Like, those are the powers that be to him. The people that stand in the way of him getting where he wants to be. But not actual elites. And then he built his career by coming down on people he's mad at, which are the working people, which are the immigrants, which are poor people.

He hates poor people. You know, et cetera, et cetera. So he is a complete fraud, but the question is not who is Donald Trump. The question is, who are we? Are we going to build a new politics that actually matters, that actually stands up to these forces, that people are genuinely mad about?

I do a lot of work with farmers. Farm families are being just run roughshod over. When I was first involved in this in the 1980s, I was in Iowa, and a guy came up to me and said, do you know the difference between a farmer and a pigeon? I said, well, no. And he said, well, a pigeon can still make a deposit on a John Deere. you got some good ones i like these this is real stuff i mean people come up with this themselves

you know right um and and and they come up with it because it's reality uh and that's and that's that's what we're facing uh so but the but the beautiful reality is that the people are ready to respond to something big uh something that something that actually empowers them again, and that goes against the corporate powers that are running roughshod over us. So I'll tell you just a quick story of a, when I was first running for office in Texas, among the issues I was running on was the gas corporations were running roughshod over people, gouging them with exorbitant prices on their monthly bills.

and I was invited into a judge's office in Tyler, Texas, East Texas. And I was told by the guy who was guiding me through Tyler. Now, kind of be careful because he's very conservative, you know, so just don't dump your whole load on him. So I sat in front of him. He had his feet propped up on the desk. His hat was back. You know, he was comfortable.

And he was saying, okay, sonny boy, tell me your story. And I said, well, I'm running, you know, trying to do something for the people and et cetera. And, and your honor, it seems to me that these gas utilities, they're just not being entirely fair with the consumer. And he leaned over into me with a scouring face. Not that, oh, shit, even that was too much for him. And he said, hi, tar, in your private moments, wouldn't you say they're fucking us? That was my lesson about who's conservative and who's progressive, who's liberal in our society. We can't make assumptions.

The ordinary people know they're being roughshod over and they will respond to a politics that responds to them. Okay. So, all right, sort of on that note, I feel like for a long time, I feel like Democrats used to be sort of the party of the working man. You know what I mean? like that was part of it they had this sort of like populace bent and it seems like that's been mostly abandoned you know apparently and it's just i don't know if they view it as a lost cause it's not worth spending time on or or whatever but i mean what do you think about that like what what what happened to that like what what's going on with the democratic party and where

where has this sort of disappeared to right i mean i mean our party decided uh that that it could take that same corporate money and run against the Republicans. I can tell you from experience, if you take that corporate check, written on the back of it is the corporate agenda. And they're going to cash the check, not you. And that's what happened to the party. But now there is a change coming because people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and Stacey Abrams and my congressman,

John Lewis. He's dead, but he's still my congressman from George. And people like Ocasio Cortez and Deb Holland, the new interior secretary from New Mexico, Dynamite. These are big changes, and people are on to it. And they're looking for a real politics. And so it's incumbent on us. Are we going to create that politics farm? Are we going to respond to them or not? I was thinking today about, because I know you wrote a book about food price gouging. And I was thinking about the grapes of wrath, which of course is where the title came from. And like I was thinking about how like we, the people have been sort of domesticated. Like during the Depression, when a bank foreclosed on a farm and somebody would come around trying to buy it for cents on the dollar,

neighbors would come to the auction and stand there with a gun and the guys back so the family could buy their own farm back for a penny or 10 cents or whatever. And why don't we do stuff like that anymore? I guess it's beginning to. I think that groups like people's action, our revolution, groups called bold and jolt, are they're substituting themselves for the failure of the old line establishment of Democratic Party. They're coming forth with those things. I just had on a Facebook live program that I do, Jane Cleb out of Nebraska,

and she took on the Keystone XL pipeline, not on behalf of the sand cranes who are, you know, endangered by the pipeline going across the Ogilala, but on behalf of the farmers and ranchers who were being roughshod over by the, this power. And she did things like she built a barn because she needed Obama to oppose the extension of

this pipeline across the Ogallala aquifer. And so she built a barn, a real barn, not a little cardboard thing, a real barn with solar panels on it. So Obama had to tear down that barn and tear down

the solar panels in order to allow a sludge pipeline to go across people's clean water. She won by made a new fight. That's the savviness that we have to have. We have to do it ourselves. We've got to be the clever ones. Right.

So we've talked about on the show before the idea of like with the Democrats having the White House and both houses of Congress and everything, that in our opinion, if they use that to just pass actual progressive policies, which if they truly are progressive in the way we talk about them, will end up helping people, regular people. And if that works, the way we've always said it will work, then there won't be this big backlash from the other side. You know, if you actually help people, then you can reach people, right? So stop worrying about trying to, about what the other side thinks

and just get things done that actually address the needs of regular American people. And if you do that, whatever the politics are, you will make progress with them, right? Do you agree with that? Is that how you see it going? You know, John Mellencamp has a song, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Yeah.

And the Democratic Party for too long did that. Now I think a change is coming. And even, you know, I was not an enthusiastic Biden supporter. I was a Bernie Sanders person. Right. But nonetheless, there he is. And this program that you just put in with the COVID response goes to the right people to do the right thing. It's not trickle down economics, but percolate up economics.

Invest in the ordinary people, and they will carry the economy forward. And you're right. Trey, if you just, if they do it, people, you don't have to worry about what the right wing thinks, because the people will figure it out for themselves. They know that that's what Roosevelt did. Right. Yeah, I mean, this guy's on our side. Then we're going to be on his side.

Right. Speak it. I firmly believe you're correct that people know how they're, I mean, are the best judge of how their own lives are going and will be happy when they're going well. And along those lines, you came up with what you call the Doug Jones and, uh, um, and explain the Doug Jones thing to that, to the list of still. Well, the media and the politicians focus on the Dow Jones average, the Wall Street profiteering. How's Wall Street doing?

How is the Dow Jones average faring? Well, most people are wondering, what about Doug and Darlene? How are they doing? We have the Doug Jones average. What's the price of beer today? What's the price of gasoline? I mean, these basic fundamentals, and that's what we have to get. get back to. And if we do, then not only will we win, but we will be able to govern in a way

that America can be proud of itself. Now, I know a lot of people say, well, Hot Tower, you can't, you know, they've got all the money, they've got the media, et cetera, et cetera. We can't fight them. But I just point out that even the smallest dog can lift his leg on the tallest building. I mean, one thing, one thing COVID taught me when the panic about the economy happened, when the shutdowns first happened, my first thought was, holy shit, a general strike would work great. Like, two days of everybody staying at home, like, sent the entire ruling class into a huge panic.

Yeah. Absolutely. And we have to be thinking in those big terms. I mean, we are, after all the power. I mean, they have no power if we actually respond. respond, and particularly we respond in the big ways that you're talking about. I mean, a general strike, that's considered a fantasy, even in the labor movement today. But nonetheless, it would generate a tremendous response from grassroots people.

I mean, there was a wildcat teacher strike in Oklahoma, what, two years ago? That was extremely effective, yeah. All right. So before we get out of here, I want to ask you, please, to, sort of elaborate on what the high tower lowdown is and also how our audience, if they so choose, could learn more about you and what you're trying to do out there. Well, thank you. The high tower lowdown is our monthly political populist newsletter, taking on the powers of be on behalf of the powers that ought to be. And it comes out monthly

and you can connect to it through high tower lowdown.org. We also do radio commentaries, also available through that same website. And we do now a happy hour, Facebook happy hour, at the Chat and Chew Cafe, which is right here in my kitchen, in fact, and have all sorts of people, scrappy folks who are battling the bastards on behalf of the ordinary folks. So you can connect through it all with, through the... the Hightower lowdown.org. Hightowerlodown.org.

And there I am. All right. Well, everybody checked that out. Jim Hightower, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Much respect. Keep doing what you've been doing for forever, brother. Thank you so much, sir.

All righty. That was a, that was hard. I mean, like, as long as he's been at it to, I mean, he was like first started writing about politics and organizing in the 70s. And if he's optimistic, then I'll be optimistic. For sure. And that's part of, like, I didn't read the entire quote,

but I was reading part of his post-election message. And when he was talking about you've got to persevere. You've got to keep pushing. I mean, obviously he speaks from experience. But then he goes on to say there, he's like, you know, if you don't believe me, ask those who launched the women's suffrage movement, none of whom live to vote, but they kept advancing. Or asking the various communities of outsiders who fought literally

and are still fighting for civil rights and human rights. dignity, you know, like it's a marathon, not a sprint, you know what I mean? And I've also been, I've more and more lately I felt like I've tried to remain optimistic, but I've always been generally optimistic about, because I just feel like the march of progress is inexorable on a, like, on a macro scale. Like, we've mostly progressed one direction. And I know every now and then we take a few steps back, but generally speaking over the course of history, we have moved in what I consider to be the proper direction. So I'm just like still holding on to that trying to have faith.

You know, I don't think that younger, you know, Mark me and you, hell, we're both old now. The kids coming up today, I just don't believe that the huge chunk of them are, you know, shitty racist dipshit, regressives that are going to drag us backwards in time, you know. And if that's true, then I think. think we'll be okay. I mean, there's that there's that old Churchill quote. Like if you're, if you're 20 and you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart, but if you're 40 and not conservative, you don't have a brain, that old thing.

Which there's some truth that people get more conservative as the age, except the things that make people more conservative as the age, you know, stuff like buying a house and paying property taxes, like annoying school board stuff, uh, having kids. Those are things a lot of people, a lot of millennials and jeners can't afford to do. There's nothing, there's nothing to make the more. more conservative. Right. So,

like, the boomers might have fucked themselves. They've, they've cut the kids off economically so much. They're going to come out radical communists. Yeah. So,

yes, Matt, thank you. Questions of comments. You can start throwing them up there. I also think that part of it was just like, because of the way the March of Progress works, like,

when me and you are papas, you know, when we're 70 something or whatever, we may not have the most open-minded viewpoints on like, cyborg rights or whatever's going on at that time. Like, we'll be sitting there like, I don't, back of my day, we didn't have robots with dicks. I don't know what, like, why robots need dicks for, you know, or whatever.

No daughter of mine's date to somebody from Jupiter. Yeah, yeah, right. So, yeah, that's part of it too. I remember I first heard that quote, the whole liberal at 20, no heart, conservative of 40, no brain from the president of the business. school that I went to in college and when he first said that I was like a diehard liberal at the time but when he said it I was like oh that's clever and then I find out later it's like well yeah it's a Winston Churchill quote but I think it's one of those that like sounds real good

but really is bullshit I remember actually right after I heard that I parroted it to my dad on the phone I was like listen to what this professor said whatever and as soon as I said it my dad was like well I don't know that sounds like bullshit to me he was like I mean I'm 50 and I don't I'm not fucking conservative like I don't know you know he wasn't happened well I've never even really been over figure out what the expression even means because it's like why are you bragging about how you forgot how to be warm

to care about people yeah right yeah exactly right yes you forgot to give a shit about everybody butch yourself as you got older you know you got yours yeah that's that's ultimately what the what it all boils down to for me with all that is like just even pretending to give a shit about people who aren't like you, you know, or not. Crystal, oh no, Crystal Clodoogey, as y'all know, I don't say words good. Crystal Clawchie says, fantastic interview, what a cool fella.

Yeah, like I said, an OG, been doing it since me and Mark, we're a glimmer in our daddy's eyes. I feel like Matt only seeks out last names at least three Zs and K's in them. fuck with you. Texas liberal populists or a special breed the prairie populist sort of thing. Molly Ivers was one of my favorite writers

and I was lucky enough to work for the same newspaper she did. And so I got to read her for free all the time until she passed. And yeah, it's a, it's a there are fighting and losing constantly. Makes your back strong.

Right. But yeah, well, we were just the thing we were just talking about, I saw this meme or this tweet that was going around this weekend. I don't know if you saw it. Somebody took a picture or either maybe they found a picture on the internet or something from the New York subway of a a woman in a burqa sitting beside a drag queen with their leg spread, you know, and he'll full drag queen get up. And then a woman in a burqa sent beside them.

And the person who tweeted it, it's a conservative that tweeted it, captioned it, this is the America that liberals want, right? and it's like, and it got a lot of traction over there, but then someone, this isn't my thought, I agree with this, but someone else pointed out, it's like, you know what, you like, you know these two people both already exist, right? Meaning like, you're saying they shouldn't be able to. It's not like a hypothetical future that liberals are going to bring to bear if they are allowed to have any power or whatever. Like, these are real people that exist in the world and what you're saying is you are of the opinion. that they should not be allowed like that they should you're saying it's literally the America that already exists right yeah this is the present that look that the Americans

already want is the present that already exists which is why it's a picture got a picture taken about it right yeah yeah yeah it's like but also like you're like the core essence of conservatism is the people I grew up around with is like I got my own property I stay on my land I'm my own my own fucking business and you leave me alone right there's two people who couldn't be more different minding their own business on their goddamn way to work in the morning. That is the essence of, that's supposed to be the future of conservative's one. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Stay out of my fucking business. Yeah. I'm a dude. Also, like, it ain't none of your goddamn business. So leave me alone. Also, I'm not sure how we got there, but like the person, a person who's a observant enough to wear a burqa is not left wing. Right. Yeah.

Of course. Right. yeah like it yep i mean like i i don't know how like we like somebody made this point where they're talking about like like the government doesn't count as long because islamic terrorism is a different category than right wing terrorism but islamic terrorism is right wing terrorism yeah i used to have a bit about how all the similarities between like hardcore conservatives and fundamentalist muslims or whatever um because yeah fundamentalism is fundamentalism but you were saying you're like,

that's not a left-wing thing. I remember a brief anecdote. I used to, at my old day job, I had this super conservative lady I worked with who we would get into debates all the time. And I liked her.

Well, hang on, I'll come back to this. Let's read this. Mary in San Francisco says, I've gotten more left slash progressive as I've gotten older. Once life kicks you in the teeth a few times, you start seeing shit for what it is.

And as a Christian, I'm obligated to give a crap about people. Yeah, I agree with all that. I wish everybody felt the same way you do. Mary in San Francisco because that's yeah especially Christians you know that is the way that Christians should look at everything but so many of them don't the the internet's radicalized me just like as everybody else and like I keep moving left and like I everybody thinks they're going to be radicalized in the right direction and I get that but I but I don't know how you can

scroll across just just as many go fund me's for health care and not want to radically change the way America's organized it's just it's bizarre right though yeah and like the meet there'll be like a newspaper article about some girl some like 12 year old and it's framed as like 12 year old girl starts lemonade business to pay for her father's surgery or whatever and it's like what a hero and it's like no what a fucking travesty that is yeah like that there was there was literally reality we live in that's not a feel good story that's a fucking shame there was literally a vulva story last week about a girl running a lemonade stand to pay for her own brain

surgeries, and it was presented as a heartwarming tale. It's like, this is the girl doing child labor to pay for life-saving brain surgery. It's not heartwarming in any way. Yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking nightmare. So, all right, the anecdote I was telling, I'm actually thinking,

I've either told this on here or on the well-red podcast before, but still briefly, I used to get in the political debates of the super conservative I worked with all the time, and I actually really liked her as a person, but we were very far apart politically. And she knew that. And one day, we're in a training class and the training instructor asked, like, let's say hypothetically that the state of Tennessee was about to pass a new law that said it's illegal to smoke

cigarettes outdoors in the state of Tennessee. Can you give some, like, can you give some challenges to a law like that, like legal challenges? Because it was like a contract class we were taking. And I said, smart assily. I said, uh, this is. America, you know, and people kind of laughed, so I felt good, that's all I wanted, was a couple laughs, whatever, that's all I was saying. But the woman I'm talking about turned around and looked at me, she goes, she goes,

typical liberal. And then she turned back around, and I was like, that wasn't, no, it wasn't. Like, that was a super conservative thing, I just said. Like, that was very conservative. Like, fuck you, the government. You can't tell me what to do. That wasn't liberal at all.

You know, but like, and that was like the first time I realized, like, oh, liberal that just means whatever you don't think is correct right so like we're talking about fundamentalist Muslims they're grouped in with like the left wing just because y'all don't believe the shit that they believe so it's like anything that you disagree with becomes liberal like liberal is the umbrella that covers everything you disagree with whether there's any truth to you know where it actually falls on the spectrum or not yeah i mean like the we're not by the way i'm not saying that like observant muslims can't be left wing obviously ill hand

omar and they there's yeah that's like you're saying fundamentalist yeah record but i feel like fundamentalism is a is another level you know yeah but like one thing american right wingers and fundamentalist muslims both have in common is they will set off bombs to stop abortions so right there's what we're saying all right on that bombing baby note let's get out of here it's a good place to end i think uh thank you all for joining us we'll be back next week on weekly skews i'm trying that's mark so y'all love you bye