Weights and Plates Podcast - #108 - Strength Over Trends

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

In a compelling episode of the Weights & Plates podcast, host Robert Santana and guest Gretchen Geist explore the fleeting nature of fitness trends, with a focus on Pilates, and contrast these with the enduring value of strength training. Santana, leveraging his deep expertise in dietetics and kinesiology, emphasizes the necessity of progressive overload for true strength development, a concept often absent in trendy fitness regimes. The discussion pivots around the idea that while fitness fads may be appealing, they lack the long-term health benefits and measurable progress provided by foundational strength training. This episode serves as a reminder of the importance of prioritizing sustainable health and strength over the allure of the latest fitness craze.Follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the weights and plates podcast. I am Robert Santana. I am your host, joined today by a frequent flyer of the show, Gretchen Geist. Hi. Welcome. I'm here. She is here in sunny Arizona, venturing from Michigan. Not so sunny this week, but I'll take 60s.

Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. 60s is what we call here fake winter. Arizona cold. Yeah. That's what I call it. Or not hot. So we have two seasons here.

We have hot and not hot. I don't know. I prefer the June. I like the smeltering. You like when your brain's boiling. Yeah. You can fry an egg on the sidewalk. Have you seen videos of that?

I've heard of it. I have actually seen. That's definitely worth a search. Yeah. Speaking of frying eggs, you know, we haven't talked about diet in a long time. Oh. Yeah. I don't know if we've ever talked about.

You and I have not. Yeah, we haven't. Yeah. Maybe we should. I mean, you wanted to talk about Pilates earlier. I think we should cover Pilates because it's having a moment right now. Really? Yeah, it's super trendy.

I thought you were fucking with me. No, it's really trendy. So I sign up for this newsletter and it summarizes like trends in the fitness industry and different companies or gyms releasing certain products or. like capital investments and whatnot. So Pilates is definitely having a big moment right now. So we need to sell all of our racks and barbells and plates. Yep.

Get reformers. Reformers. Yeah. Were you about to say transformers? Yeah. It goes to show how much experience I have with Pilates. Pilates. There's like a there's a meme.

It's like, did you say Pilates? I thought you meant pie and lattes. So I'll call like pie latte. So, you know, I've had my business called Waits and Pilates. Yeah. An accident. You'll probably get a lot of women being like, ooh. I should just put like some sort of visual that's, you know, could be confused as a Pilates visual.

Yeah. Yep. That would be. That would be interesting. So tell us, why is it so important that we talk about Pilates on this show? Well, so a lot of. of people. Pilates is marketed as strengthening, strength training, strengthening, strengthening, strengthening your core. And it's really sad to me because I'm like, and like, I've done Pilates.

So one of my best friends at work, he's been with the company for a really long time. And he, he mainly coaches, teaches, Pilates classes. So the first time I was there, I would like jump into his classes and do a lot of Pilates. And then now like I'll, I've been to a couple of classes. It's a nice stretch. And it's, I call it like a massage for your nervous system. Massage for your nervous system. Okay.

So it's just kind of like, I don't know. And like, don't ask me to explain the science. I think it's probably not a thing. Not very scientific. No, it's not like the founder, Joseph Pilates would probably argue. But no, like people think that it's strength training. They're getting stronger by going to Pilates, but it's not in the same way that we understand strength training to be, which is what it is. Well, strength training of any kind needs to have one feature for us to consider it strength training.

Progressive overload. Progressive overload. So how do you incrementally load Pilates? So, okay, so the bread and butter of Pilates is what's called a reformer. So it's basically this kind of like mat that you lay on and it moves up and down this carriage. and it has springs. So there's five springs, and there's like, it's like yellow, blue, two yellows, two blues and one red. And different exercises have different resistances.

But the thing about it is you can't quantify the resistances. I mean, I guess you could like, like, if you take this to the extreme, like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to have a logbook. and I'm going to write down everything I do in Pilates and the spring resistances. First of all, that's tedious and pointless. But you can, I mean, especially like the main one's kind of like a leg press, basically. You could put all the springs on it and make it hard, but it's still not going to be. Well, first of all, you're lying down. So you're not going to have, I mean, they would argue like, oh, you have to like stabilize your cord, like not like.

over extend or whatever, but you're still like laying on a mat and not having, you can't fall down. So balance is not a thing. But even if you loaded up all the springs, like, well, then where do you go from there? And then certain exercises with the ways they put you, like the, how they orient your joints and just the way you can't load all the springs. No. You'd either like tear your shoulder or so you can't. Like maybe there's a little bit of progressive overload, but you're not quantifying it. Just like people are like bands, like band resistance training.

It's like you're not quantifying that. And even as the bands stretch out, the resistance isn't the same. So it's meaningless to try to quantify it. Yeah, I would agree with that. So like most things, my assumption is the draw to it is the emotional experience of the client. or the member of the Pilates studio. Yeah. You know, we were talking about this earlier,

and no longer I've done this, the more things have come full circle, from the standpoint that most consumers of fitness clubs, whether they be Pilates, yoga, a commercial gym, a strength gym, a cross-fit, we're just going to put that under the umbrella of fitness clubs. Yeah. Most people that buy a membership or by training,

are paying for an experience. They're not bought into a method. This is... 100% Something a colleague of ours told me about a year ago. He's down in Mexico. This is Hari Fufutis. We had a show.

Yeah, he was on the show once, and I think I brought it up in our interview. But he had, you know, he'd done some research on marketing his gem. And one of the first things he told me was, you know, in Mexico, they don't know what starting strength is. He's in Guadalajara, if you're ever, vacationing there. He should check out Tabros, Tavros strength, Tavros strength, I think is what it's called.

Anyhow, he said most people aren't buying a method. You know, when you sell a method, you get autistic, crazy enthusiasts like you and I. You're not going to get the average person that walks into a gym to buy into a method. That's for you to worry about. When you hire a plumber, are you worried about which tools he's using or whether he's using PVC or cast iron or, you know, what brand of, hold on, or what hardware store he shop, so you don't care about any of this shit, right? You want an outcome. Yeah, you want the toilet to flush.

You know, you want clean water to come out of your shower, right? So how is this any different? Most people, they want, they want the result, right? They want to look better. They want to feel, really, they want to feel better, you know. And as a result, we've had a lot of gritty. And I talk about this a lot. It's a trope, as you say.

Oh, yeah. Which trope are we going on? I'm just glad you didn't use the C word. I fucking hate that word. Cope. Cope. Oh. Cope.

Cope. What? If you complain about anything these days, a young guy is call it a cope. Oh. There's a few old guys my age that use that word, too. I won't acknowledge that word as part of the English dictionary. Interesting. I've never heard.

It's a rant. It's a trope. I mean, anyway. We're not going to get into, you know. Okay, which one are we going on? You know, it's just a rant of mine that the advertising for this business has been centered around a body that is not your own. You're going to achieve somebody else's body by doing this method. And I guess right now you're saying it's circled back to Pilates.

Yeah. It switches every few years. And what does it switch? Is it because we found something new that actually worked? No, we know what actually works, but what actually works doesn't fucking feel good all the time. Yeah, very true. And you work in a commercial gym, so, and you've also worked at a starting strength gym before. So you've seen the differences in the clientele.

One of them is going to draw people that are familiar with the method at some level. Maybe not at the level you and I are. I would actually... You're going to counter that? I've not worked at a starting strength, gym. So educate the audience. So I would... say,

I gotta be careful. Paying attention, editor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pay attention. Most people that are walking into a starting shrink gym, they just see the sign. It's like, oh, like, I need to get stronger. Maybe they peek inside the gym, like, oh, wow, that looks pretty simplistic. I think it kind of draws people of that mindset.

There are some that walk into a franchise that are familiar. But I would say maybe 10%. That would be generous. So this is interesting. This is good feedback. So they see the word strength. What is strength? Strengths and outcome.

Yes. They're not paying attention to the two words, which represent a method. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, people just. So even in the world of starting strength where they've franchised their gyms and licensed out the brand to attract customers to the method, you're saying that people are, walking in because of the outcome, which is strength. Yeah, I would agree.

I mean, you're in the fitness industry. There's certain rules you're just going to have to play by whether you're like it or not. Of course. So why is any of the shit important? Well, you've described one type of client there. They see the word strength. They're attracted to that. But that's not typically what most gyms attract.

That's why starting strength gyms are rather small compared to a 24-hour fitness. and L.A. Fitness, pick your commercial gym, depending on what market you live in, right? Lifetime. When you are running these facilities geared at hundreds, if not thousands of members, most of which who don't use it and you're selling access, oftentimes they're selling the outcome that you're going to have this amazing physique. You're going to have this amazing physique and they will showcase that. the problem is if you don't naturally have some semblance of that to begin with, it might take you a lifetime to get kind of close. Yeah. Even so, I mean, your appearance, like where your muscle bellies insert, like all that is fixed by your genetics. So you can't, you can look better when you gain muscle and lose body fat, which is what everybody wants to do.

I'll tell that to people. Like at the end of the day, you and everybody else in here wants more muscle mass and less body fat. And they're like, yeah, that's pretty much the case. Like, I can't promise you like, oh, you're going to look like this or look like this person. but you're going to like how you look with more muscle mass and less body fat. And people generally agree with that. 100%. What everybody who does this is going to look better than they did.

They're going to have more muscle mass and they are going to have more muscle mass and they started out with. And they're just generally going to look better. Yeah. Feel better. Fuck around with their diet. They'll have less body fat too. You know, that that one tends to be more of a struggle because that's not something we're supervising. We're consulting, advising on.

They're supposed to go home and carry this out. But it doesn't always happen. Yep. Yep. And I don't know about you. You're in the commercial gym. So now that clientele is looking at a different result. They're not walking in.

They're looking for strength. I would say people are walking into a commercial gym. I think there's only so many goals that people have. I think the general public has a, they don't understand strength like we do. Mm-hmm. but they have some sort of like nascent understanding of what it means to be stronger and they want that. It's like they have a, they don't know exactly what it is and how to get it, but they know that it's inherently important. Does that kind of make sense?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, they know strength is good. but they for whatever reason have lost the sense of correlation between strength and appearance. A strong person looks a certain way, right? Yeah, people have very much compartmentalized. Like, oh, I do this type of workout to get this outcome. I get, if I want to lose weight, I do cardio.

If I want to bulk up, I lift weights. So people are very compartmentalized. If I want long and lean muscles, I do Pilates. I was coming to this. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely. Well, there's such a thing called, well, scratch that. When for a given activity, people tend to select activities are going to be good at.

Yes. Yeah. In general. in general. If you're going to excel at something, you're going to do more of it, right? But then there's just some things you got to do for routine maintenance. You can't sit around and be weak and die, right? So even if you never deadlift 400 pounds as a man or, you know, 200 as a woman, as long as you're deadlifting, you know, that's like flossing your teeth. You got to do it. Got to do it. So there's this, there's two things going on when you're in the weight room. You know, number one, you're obviously, you got the vanity piece to it. You want to look better, right? Feel better. You might. might want to get stronger for ego purposes. You know, all these things are real and can be healthy up to a point.

But then on the other end of it, you're going to lose muscle at a certain point in your life. And when you start losing muscle, the more you have, the better off you're going to be. You know, an 80-year-old who's never trained with a barbell is worse off than an 80-year-old who's been doing it for five years, 10, years, 20, 30, 40, 50, right? Yeah. And then you've got competitors, obviously. It's a whole other. Sport is a whole other area. So one of the things that I start to think about when you mentioned Pilates is just that idea, right?

They see a guy who tends to be slender on the skinny side and relatively defined. What they're not seeing is that he's generally always looked like that. You know what I mean? Like you see marathon runners, the guys that are doing well, what do they look like? They're very long, long limbs, skinny. They don't weigh much. And they generally are built like that, the ones that perform really well, the top 5%. You know, they're going to be skinny.

They're going to be taller, you know, because longer stride length, et cetera. Bodybuilders tend to have shorter muscles that pop out more. Thin skin. Yeah. So the person leading the thing you're trying to do, you know, to an extent, yes, effort has produced that physique. But the frame was there to begin with. The foundation was there to begin with. and he just built on it, right? If you take a guy who's built to be a linebacker and try to get him a yoga body, it's probably not going to happen. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, it actually, that's funny that you say that reminds me of a friend I had in college and he was on the football team, Division 2 football, and he was, I mean, he was a tall, I mean, he was like 6'4, big dude, big dude. I saw him a few years after we graduated.

And he lost like 150 pounds. He was like so small. And so first of all, he wasn't being forced to eat to maintain that large physique. Right. And then he took up running. So he just like like slimmed down. So I think, I mean, yes, you have your frame. But you could you can look different ways depending on.

Of course. Look at Christian Bail and The Machinist versus Batman. He was 115 pounds, I think, or 125 pounds, the machinist, and then he was 220 in Batman. You're talking to me like I watch movies. You need to watch movies. I have seen Batman, though. I forget which one. The Batman begins, the Dark Night, the Dark Night rises.

You know, I was thinking I wanted to watch The Dark Night again. It's a very, like, I like psychological movies. That's a fucked up one. Have you seen Shutter Island? Mm-hmm. I love that. That was pretty good. It was very good.

What did I watch? Never mind. Anyway. Well, and the machinist, he was full-on anorexic looking like 115 to 125 pounds. I think he's six feet. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, he was emaciated.

We got a prisoner of war. And that was the, he needed to look like that for that role. Yes, yes. So he starved himself. and did the movie. Then for Batman, he was 220 because they needed to be more jacked. And so, yes, anybody can starve themselves skinny, but their shoulders aren't, their actual shoulder joints are not narrowing. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Their bones aren't getting shorter. Their tendons aren't moving, you know, they're just losing mass and fat. So that could happen. And when you say, was this college football? There's a very high likelihood he was taking anabolic too. A lot of those guys are. I know you don't want to believe it, but there's a 99% chance he was taking antibiotics because it's not frowned upon in professional football, American football. Division two.

It starts in high school. Interesting. I mean, it shouldn't. Maybe that's a like newer thing. No. This goes way back to when I was in high school. Last year, I'm a young guy. But in college and football, it is a slap on the wrist to get caught taking steroids.

all the way to the pro level. Interesting. Look at what they are doing. Well, I think with the image and likeness, like, what is that, is that like official legislation? This sounds, I sound stupid right now. But now that college players can make money. Yeah.

So there's more of an incentive to take even more. Yeah. Think about it. So I think that would have changed the game. I don't know before that. I don't know. I'm not a man, so I don't have a man's brain. Exactly.

A seven or eight-figure contract that you can get with the NFL and that edge might get you there? Yeah. They're athletes. Yeah. You understand that the steroids are not nearly as dangerous as playing football. Yeah, football. You want to get sacked by, you know, several 300-pound guys? Simultaneously.

Yeah. You take steroids. You get the side effects of that, right? Well, if they would These, you know There's an argument to be made Some of those There's an argument to be made

That some of those steroids Prevent more injuries Well, yeah Well, if these Frickin, you know, NFL Strength and conditioning coaches Would actually train them correctly.

Glorified babysitters. Yeah, it really It just People don't appreciate You know, I can't wait to see What this episode's title Because I think we've struck something here people don't appreciate the selection process and sports.

The genetics. Yeah. You know, the higher up you get, the more it becomes about selecting the right talent. Obviously, some people could be very talented and not have the right mindset. And it limits them, but they still do better than most. But, you know, when you're at that level, at the pro level, mindset separates people out a lot more. Obviously. And then there's like little things to like vision.

I'm not a total expert in this, but when you're trying to win in a sport, you have to select the best talent. You're not trying to farm up mediocre or kind of good. You're trying to get people that are excellent and squeeze out as much more as you can out of them because the other team has people that are excellent, right? So this can apply to anything. You know, we've gotten this whole nature versus nurture thing has gotten so out of control with trying to skew everything towards the nurture side. Yes, environment impacts how good you're going to, you know, how successful you're going to be. But the level of success is relative to the person and the activity that person is doing, right? Like some people, sorry to say it, are smarter than others before they even open a book.

I've seen these people when I was in college. Yeah. They wouldn't study. They'd absorb everything from the lecture, auditory learners, and we'll get 100% on the exams. And we're talking about chemistry and physics here, not, you know, some, you know, 100-level professionalism class that they just want to steal your money on. We're talking about technical classes. These guys would come in just hearing the lecture was enough because their brains were

just wired that way. Some of us had to read things once or twice. Others had to read things six times. You know, it just varies, right? So the whole nature thing needs to be appreciated more, especially when you're trying to set goals for yourself. Obviously, you can't measure your own genetics, but you could use some semblance of common sense. There are men that walk in the gym in their first day, they're deadlifting over 400 pounds.

You're not going to see them at the commercial gym because this usually happens in a high school football weight room when they're young. They do their first lift in the weight room when they're practicing for some explosive sport like football or wrestling or baseball. By the time you're at a commercial gym and you have adults coming in, or long past that, you're not going to get an 18-year-old novice picking up quite that much, but you might see 315. Yeah. Well, as someone, I don't think I've mentioned this on the podcast yet. So I officiate sports as like a little side hustle. And you can tell really early the kids that have it. And they're just athletic. And they just pick, pick it up. And they're their leagues above their teammates and their peers. You can see that very early on.

You see it in animals. Yeah. Good point. You know, training dogs has really driven this point home. So this is, you know, something I had to learn the hard way. And I, when the veil was pulled back and I was, you know, educated on all the steroid use in the weight rooms, right? And I've never had a problem with it in sport because, you know, they're trying to win, you know. You got to do whatever you got to do. It's technically cheating if it's against the rules, but we all know that most of them are doing it. They're going to put their body through. Anyways, that's a whole other discussion.

But training dogs has opened my eyes to this because I've had to raise puppies. My friend, he trains police canines and he develops them for police work and he develops protection dogs for personal protection for people that want a dog that's basically basically going to be their four-legged bodyguard. 99% of this is in the selection process. Yeah. And I watch as he washes out dogs. That's what we call it when they don't make the cut. And you can kind of see it. Like there's litter puppies.

The one that I got, she'd bite a rag because that's what they're training them. Training them to do his bite. She'd bite a rag. She'd play. If he went to something firmer, not interested. She was also teething. So her mouth hurts, teeth need to come out, all those things. However, her litter mates. What? Would that wash her out? Because it was consistent. It was not improving. Oh, I see. Because the teething. Okay. So it wasn't even worth it to him to even wait for teething because he saw enough, you know? Because if she's careful about that, what else is she going to be careful about as she develops, right? And this is not something I'm going to dig too deep into. I'm going to interview him on this show at some point. Yeah, that'll be good.

That's going to be great. We've been trying to plan it. But the point is the point I was about to make is if you watch the litter mates, they had teeth flying out trying to bite whatever he put in their mouth. Not all of them, but most of the – I'm sorry. Not all of them, but most of them. You know, you saw that. They'd be biting.

They'd lose teeth on the bite. And then they keep doing it. They were working, right? Then other issues arose in the end with that particular – particular litter. There were eight dogs and one made it to police, two made it to personal protection. So three out of eight. And the rest had different things that arose. And that's, you know, you can't, you can't train certain things out. They're innate. You know, we have certain personalities, right? Some of us are lower energy than others. You know, you're not going to take somebody who likes to sit in a

quiet room in a computer away from people and basically make a cheerleader. Yeah, turn him into an extrovert. Yeah. I mean, you could, but you can move the needle, you know, like, what's it called? I could be a functional salesman when I need to because I run a business. I have to do marketing and sales as part of my job, right? Yeah. It's not my defaults.

Yeah. It's not what I love to do. But I understand it at a level where I can get by. And I keep getting better as I do this more. contrast that to my father. He just does it. He doesn't think about it. He just does it.

The guy can sell a popsicle to an Eskimo, right? He's just one of those guys that just likes to talk and likes to get people excited about things. It's like my brother. Natural salesman. Me, I have to think about it a little bit more systematically. I got to hype myself up for it. And then I need to go in a quiet room afterwards. Yeah.

Decompress, right? So, you know, you're not going to train me to behave like the, other guy because that drive is not going to come from the same place. Yeah, you could kind of relating that to training. You could take someone with like average genetics for strength and still train for strength and get them decently strong. Absolutely. You know, so like strength, because strength is the most general adaptation and even if someone's like not particularly genetically predisposed to gain a lot of muscle or get really big numbers, you can still, you can still do the thing. You know what I mean? So another way to tackle this is you've played sports for most of your life.

Yeah. Yeah. Capacity been involved in sports for most of your life. Pretty much so. Anybody ever have to make you play sports when you're younger? Oh, no. I was, so when I was a kid. Yeah, let's hear it. This is what we want to hear. Okay.

So when I was a child, I have specific memories of so my neighbor had like this little like small hill in their backyard. I mean, I was doing like hill sprints with my friends, like racing. So like I was competitive from a young age. Going on bike rides, running up and down hills, running around barefoot. So I think I said this on the first podcast. I'll repeat it, though. when I was probably an elementary school. So we had a pool in our backyard growing up in Michigan.

So it's open for like three months. Okay. But I was doing like flips into the pool. And I was jumping. I would jump on the bed, jump on mattresses and do flips. And my parents are like, oh my gosh, this girl is going to kill herself. We also had this, it was this little like horse that was suspend. It was a plastic horse suspended on springs.

So it was, you know, it was like three feet off the ground. I would, you know, you'd like ride it and like bounce. I would apparently stand on top of the little saddle as a child and like kind of like bend my knees. My mom is like, this girl is going to kill us. I did like fall off a toy box one. I got this scar. But anyway. But yes, from a young age, I was just very prone to like.

like doing physical things. And I actually think about, I've just reverted back to my seven-year-old self, just running around barefoot, eating a bunch of protein, not eating vegetables, doing physical things, like all the time. It's just like, I just,

it's just there. It's just, yeah, it's just there. And I remember, like, I studied marketing in school and my first job out of college, I was my first, like, real job. I was sitting at a desk inside, staring at two screens, and it was awful. I felt like this is not who I am. I was, I don't want to say depressed. I just, I was, it was not a fit. I just

felt very restless in that job. And like I ended up, they like restructured the company. So like my position was eliminated. But I was so relieved. don't have to go back there because it really was like sucking me dry. I'm like, this is not who I am. So obviously that's how I got into personal training, you know, the fitness industry. But yes, like, it's in my nature to do all the things I'm doing now. You know what I mean?

It's just there. It's just there. It's just there. You know. Can't fight it. And that's one of the things. There's people listening to this. that are on the opposite end of that.

Like, I've known people that I knew a person who joined the golf team in high school to get out of pee. Yeah, okay. Because she hated physical activity that much. She ended up getting into lifting later in life. But when she was young, she just hated physical exercise, you know? Yeah. And just like with diet, I meet guys that hate eating. It shows usually, but they hate eating.

And then I mean other guys that say they look at food and get fat. Right. So I think one of the goals, as I keep doing more of these episodes for my listeners, for my clients, for people that I'm trying to help, is to really shine light on the innate aspect of this. You know, I think that it's been lost, you know, that propaganda, the 80s and 90s was that hard work fixes everything. We've all seen people that work very hard and suck. Yeah. We can, we all, you know, I know it sounds terrible people, but you can think of an example.

You know, then you got people that joke, work smarter, not harder. You know, that's a thing too. But not everybody grinds the bone and is successful, you know, not everybody's rewarded for hard work because the outcome of that hard work is what determines the reward. You know, you are rewarded in proportion to the problem that you solve, right? So you can work very hard and barely solve a problem or not solve it at all, you know. effort is just one part of the equation. It's the one you get the highest perception of control over, you know. You can always put an effort and you should if something is important to you.

But you're not going to take somebody who hates exercise and train that person to be like you. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that can get a little dicey. You know, someone could be like, oh, like I just don't like working out. So I'm just not going to. It's like, well, you can make that choice, but then you're going to pay for it with your health long term. So there is a degree where like, okay, sometimes you've got to do stuff you don't want to do for the greater good of your long term health. Delete ratification.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And as a coach, it really challenges you because typically the people that become coaches, as I said earlier, are the types that like to do the shit. You know? Yeah. I mean, you get to a point where you're advanced and you're like, fuck, man, do I really have to go squat this? You know?

But for the most part, we do it because we see a lot of value in it. And if we don't do it, especially you and I, and don't tell me I'm full of shit on this, you get fucking crabby, don't you? So I agree with you. Like, I would, like what I like to say, it's not even like, I enjoy training. I legitimately enjoy it. But like, it's part of who I am. Like, I'm just going to do it. Like, I trained on Christmas.

Now I had a bad workout on Christmas, but whatever. But she showed up. But I'm like, it's Thursday. It's, I'm training. It's, it's this weird, it's like deeper than just a thing I like and a passion. It's like, this is who I am. I need to do this. I will.

It's just set in stone. Same. Obviously, when I was in Israel, I didn't train. Right. That's different. But that's, yeah, that was the trip of a lifetime. Yeah. If I don't, if I skip a workout or lifting less, and usually it's because I've taken on a new project, and I never miss like an entire week. We're talking like I might have three days and then I cram it.

Yeah, you push it back or whatever. Or I drop the fourth day on a four-day split that might happen because three days is still training. You know, that's still a full load. can get things done. The fourth day is better, but it's optional. That's how I like to frame it. But anyways, when I'm not working out at my full capacity, you know, or I'll drop assistance exercises.

Like I'll drop the less important stuff and make sure I'm getting in there. But, man, I get agitated very easily because it's what you said earlier about you couldn't sit still. You got ants in your pants, right? Yeah. Like if I don't lift, that turns way up. Then I'm prone to anger and anxiety. Yeah.

So I always tell people that lifting is the anti-anxiety and anger management medication. Lifting heavy, not tens and 15s. Yeah. You know, five or fewer reps with heavy weight is a nice way to treat anxiety and anger. Cardio is good for depression. That brings you up. Oh, yeah, like the runner's high. Yeah, the runner's high.

It's different. You come out feeling different. You know, when you're done with a heavy lifting session, it's hard to be pissed off on anybody, especially after a big squatter deadlift. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Do I get crabby?

I don't know. I guess I haven't really missed training. Have you noticed when you do a heavy lift that I guess takes the edge off? Takes the edge off. You feel like you got hit by a bus and you're just like fucking. Yeah. Right? Like when I, like I squatted.

You don't want to pick a fight after that, you know? Well, yeah, because you're nervous. system was so like way up here. Yeah, you just don't have any fight left in you. Right. Because you fought the barball. Exactly. And hopefully won. It's productive. Yeah. It's productive use of adrenaline. Yes. So when we're dealing with people that are not like us, which is probably most people that are listening to this, most people that come into a gym, you can't approach it the same way. They're not going to value showing up. for the same reasons that you do on or that I do. And this has been my struggle as a coach for years because your coachless push people. And you kind of think of it like a sport coach, but you're not coaching athletes.

You're trying to get people a brush your damn teeth essentially. Yeah. And I've had to like slowly adopt that mindset. Like, okay, I'm just trying to get this person to floss before bed, you know? Yeah. Versus I'm trying to get this guy who's more of an athlete to go from 225 in the deadlift. to 525 because I think he can do it, you know? Mm-hmm.

And when I used to train everybody that way, I just, you get a lot of burnout. Some people are just not wired for this. So the most important thing, for those of you that fall into that category, is that you show up. Mm-hmm. And I say this all the fucking time, man. It's like one of the number one thing that I struggle with in this industry is just keeping people showing up. And to your point in the beginning of the show, often, times they'll get the novice effect out of an activity.

Yes. It'll get hard. They'll quit. Go to the next activity. Well, the thing about... And then it cycles. A lot of exercise kind of going back to the whole like fitness commercial gym. The activities don't get harder.

You know, it's just... Yeah. It's just, I mean, there might be a little bit of progression built in, but I look at all the things offered by my workplace, all these like programs and like classes and I'm like there's no progression in any of this with the exception of the one class that kind of mimics CrossFit. I'm like if you're keeping a logbook and you're writing things down and you're doing the same squat every time and you're doing the same they do like push press and then they do basketball bounce deadlifts.

So like, yeah. And they're squatting high. They're, I mean, a push press is like, that's not even. They bench, you know, they don't set their shoulders or arch or anything like that. But, yeah, yeah. So you, but you can make an argument with this class in particular. If you're doing the same movement standard for your squat, at least I'm like trying to be as generous as possible. It's really hard.

You could, like, progress, and you could consider that strength training, but Pilates, there's, like, three different levels, but it's like, how do you quantify it? All the other group, like the aerobics, the dance class, I mean, you can't quantify it. So it doesn't get harder. It just feels hard every time because you're getting hot, sweaty, and tired. and I try to carefully point this out to people, be like, hey, listen, you know, the workouts have to get harder. And if you're not quantifying what you're doing, how do you know it's getting harder? It's not. So the question that you have to ask yourself as a person doing this is,

is what is more important? Do you want to feel good when you work out or do you want your workouts to produce an outcome? That's actually like a perfect line to ask people. Yeah. Because I get people doing like little goal setting sessions and they're like, they're so like they're basically like straight off the couch. And I tell them, I'm like, listen, find something you like,

you'll be consistent with, just go do that. Because for someone that's at square one, just getting their body into a gym is a huge win. So getting, I mean, obviously, like you and I are competitive. We do this for a living. We're like the top of the pyramid from like a motivation perspective. There's a lot of people walking into a commercial gym that, I mean, it's like what RIP says, like exercise really is good enough because they're never, they're never going to get past just getting into the gym. It absolutely is. And if these people learn the lifts using the method, you're not going to sell that, obviously, because nobody cares.

Talked about this already. Nobody's buying a method. Yeah. I think I've, I've had good success with, well, what I've kind of discovered recently. So, like, when I talk to people, I'll mention, I do this program. It's called starting strength. Just to establish, like, this is a thing. Like, it's not just something I made up. It's a methodology. But just explaining the principles, be like, okay, we're going to train for strength.

That means this, not just doing random stuff every time. We're going to measure things. We're going to make progress. It's going to be individualized to you. And I found that it's like I'm. the broadcasting, narrowcasting thing. But the people, like, I put out the message, which is fundamentally true, it's capital T truth, I would argue. And the people that are ready for it, it's going to resonate and they're going to come back. Like, I just signed someone like right

before I went on my adult winter break. And I had explained these things here. This was several months ago. It's a long story. It doesn't matter. But she finally came back to me. It was like, yeah, like this is. And she resonated with every, every tenant of the method. It's great when that happens. And she had been doing fitness things for a long time, just not seeing the results. So I think, like, the people that are a good fit for working with us, they've done the fitness thing. They're kind of like, all right, there's got to be more. They kind of figure out like maybe subconsciously. Like I'm kind of not seeing progress.

I'm kind of doing the same thing every time. Like what they're ready for more. I mean, that's what I, that's where I was at, really. So it makes sense. Yeah, same here. I always saw. And maybe it's because I'm a dude in the stuff I was reading. I always saw benefit from the barbell exercises I was doing.

Yeah. I didn't see benefits from the accessories. Wasn't seeing a correlation between working this individual joint and the muscles on the joint growing or doing anything being more functionally stronger. I may. But it was the same kind of thing. I tried all the stupid shit and then found my way here. And the way that I like to talk about it now is I'll tell somebody, oh, yeah, we strength train. and we're going to use free weights.

Mm-hmm. And we're going to add a little bit more so that it gets heavier. It's relative, you know. You're not going to train for power lifting heavier for you. You know, it might be the bar to 10 pounds. I don't like to use the word barbell. I don't try to describe starting strength anymore. Interesting.

Because once you start getting into that, then it can scare people away. Yeah, I agree with barbell scares people. Oh, yeah. Which is really... It's silly. It's really silly because people associate a barbo with powerlifting and bodybuilding. One rent backs and people lies bugging out of their head. Oh, she didn't coach powerlifting.

That's what they ask me. No, I don't coach powerlifting. That's like such a pet peeve of mine. Oh, so poor. Are you still doing powerlifting? Like, I'll have friends that, like, I haven't talked to in a while. Are you still doing powerlifting? I never was doing powerlifting.

It's fine. It's, you know, it's just a matter of making it palatable. Yeah. You could still teach the method. People should still do these exercises. Mm-hmm. But you can't sell it to a normie the way you would a purist. Yeah.

And that is the needle that I've been trying to thread for years. Mm-hmm. And the longer I do it, the less important it is, the less the details and the technicalities are important. It's just getting people in there and keeping them showing up. Yeah. Even if you're basically turning it into exercise with good form, which is better than what we're seeing into these gyms, which is exercise with shit form. Yeah. I think also like the logbook and showing them their progress, that's huge for just like client retention.

Oh, yeah. And it's like, hey, like we're measuring and like I care about what you're doing. because you think most mainstream personal traders, I mean, maybe they're writing down a workout. It's like, are you keeping all those workout pages? God, no. Yeah. It's like, no. And are you progressing off of the previous workout?

So I think the logbook is a huge piece for like, like, I know what the hell I'm doing. And we're going to track this and it's individualized to you. Those are super important things. Well, what's funny is even something like a warm-up. Like warm-up sets piss off some people. Wait, elaborate. So if you... So take a typical commercial gym person who's never done this before.

Yep. But they've done maybe other stuff, like you said. Mm-hmm. We'll start with the bar, five reps. The bar, five reps. Then we'll do like, what, four more sets before the work set? What the hell? Well, all these warm-ups taking forever, you know, because they're just kind of used to.

to just going in there mindlessly lifting. Yeah. And now you have made it about movement, not exertion. And most people go to the gym because they want to exert themselves. So I found that even things as simple as that. Like you have to explain and make sure that it moves efficiently. Yeah. Interesting.

These are some of the things I've learned trying to make this more palatable for the masses. You know, the warm upsets or something that come up. I've never I've never gotten pushback about warm up sets I like explain like hey we can't just load the heaviest weight

and lift it right away we have to warm up like that's what I've never that's interesting yeah I've never gotten straight up pushback where what the fuck why do I have to do this

not like that it's more like oh is this my work set you know and like you can kind of tell yeah they're a little confused yeah

where's my work set when are we doing my work set trust me it's coming and you know it's happened more than once I've never had somebody straight up say I'm not warming up. But. Yeah, I.

Yeah, I had one of my coworkers. He's doing the program. Well, he is taking like parts of starting strength and parts of other programs. And I'm just, I'm just happy he's lifting barbells. But I saw him one day and he was doing, he was squatting 135. And he just loaded 135. and was doing it. And it's,

he's kind of like, kind of also my manager. So. So. Is he watching? I had to, yeah. Maybe. I don't know.

But I was like, hey, like, I would highly recommend doing warm up sets. Like, you're just asking for an injury. And he's been like, he has dealt with a couple injuries from the past,

not from lifting from like too much running, actually. Yeah. But I was like, you really need to warm up. up. Like, please don't do that. Like, you can get away with it at 135, but like, it's, and he's, like, really crunched for time most of the time. So I'm like, it would be better if you did, like, one lift a day and did warm up sets than, then trying to squish in two or three lifts and not

warming up. So, um, I was like, please, like, you know, I wasn't trying to be a jerk about him. Like, no, I'm legitimately concerned for you because you, if it's like what Rip says in the book, if you don't have time to warm up, you don't have time to train. That's right. You just don't. Well, then you get people that rush through them and don't take into account that, hey, you're practicing a movement, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just try to blast through and then it looks like shit.

Then the works out looks like shit. Yeah. And you're like, well, we got to redo it. Yeah. Start over. Yeah, they get pissed. Why am I going to any weight, you know? So anyways.

Interesting. I think the most important takeaway today is that. we teach a method. It's highly effective. But if we want more people to do it, we have to prioritize showing up versus any specific purist version of a program, which is where a lot of people get lost. This is where the bodybuilders and the crossfitters are killing us because they will keep it interesting for this person. They don't give a shit about progression. Yeah.

But neither does the client. You know, people love being a novice because progression is predictable, moves well, you know, it's steady. But once you're no longer a novice, which, you know, it's in the programming books, you have to decide what you want to put your energy into, which may not be a strength specialization. But even with novices, you run into like, oh, I want more exercises. Sometimes you've got to do that. But it's not when you're, the more people you get under a loaded bar. The more variations in programming, you're going to have to accommodate as a coach because not everybody wants to do three exercises, four exercises, five exercises, and at a couple pounds. It's just, you know, it's a niche.

And I think it always will be because, again, like we said at the beginning of the episode, certain activities select for certain people. So most people that are going to come lift aren't built for competitive style lifting. So again, we're just trying to get them to floss their fucking teeth every night. Yeah. So that's my two cents on the matter. That's it. All right. I think we've hammered that pretty well.

Yep. So you don't want to talk about Pilates again. I don't want to talk about Pilates again. It doesn't get heavier. It gets harder. Have you ever done Pilates? I think I did a Pilates exercise was. A Pilates, like not even a class, like an exercise.

Yeah, I was in my master's and they had a transformer. And I did something with it. I don't fucking remember. That was the most frustrating thing about grad school for kinesiology was had all these different activities. And then you had people that did them and they all had their biases and you're just confused. You're asking yourself, do I really need to know how to like, do you have to be an expert in stretching or Pilates or yoga or running?

There's so much shit on aerobic, man. Oh, yeah, I bet. I think that's probably changed because a lot of the Joe Weeder fanboys are in academia now doing research. But back then it was a lot of marathon runners and cyclists that couldn't get jobs that became professors and pushed that bias, you know? I remember I remember us talking about that. It was just a heavy emphasis on cardio respiratory fitness, which is important, but not as important as they try to make it out to be. because, like you said earlier, strength is the most fundamental physical attributes.

So you want to make sure you have that. Yeah. It doesn't mean sit on your ass on the couch all day. You still have to move, you know, to some extent. Yep. What that looks like is going to vary depending on your lifestyle. But yeah, no Pilates. Waits and plates, not weights and Pilates.

So ready to close out here? Sure. All right. Where can everybody find, you, Gretchen? Oh, okay. I'm on Instagram. at So Fetch, So Grutch. Yeah.

That's it. I guess that's kind of... Yeah, you're on my website too. Oh, yeah. Okay. Should I just redo that part? No, you're good. Okay.

You can find me at weights and plates.com where you can also find Gretchen, where we both offer strength coaching, and I offer diet coaching as well. Instagram, the underscore Robert underscore Santana. If you are in Metro Phoenix, I still have a gym.

where I also trained dogs. So there's a lot of training going on. And we have weightlifting club in there, too, if you want to talk to them. Weights and platesgim.com. Or you can find us just south of Sky Harbor Airport, Metro Phoenix. Thanks for tuning in, and I will see you on the next one.